The topic of Finding Emotional Peace in Recovery at the 2022 Annual National Conference of Drug Addicts Anonymous in Milwaukee, WI

That was a great reading. I love that I was, I was nice. It must be in that blue book.

So I'm Bill, I'm a drug addict

and I have a spirituality as well

that it comes up to me every morning I wake up, you know,

I got this old book here. Check this out.

It's old school. It is #3 in the line. And I got it in 1990 in a treatment center. And I'm thinking that's like 32 years. Been a long time since I got this book, but I'm, I've got like four years and some change. You know, that's what I got now, which is good. You know, I had to go out and experiment and have some good times, I thought. And you know, maybe didn't follow the suggestions

like as detailed in this book. You know, in fact, I guarantee I didn't,

I know there was some of them. I didn't like the looks of it all. You know, you know, I got a little pink and spooky about the third step and that was enough, you know, and that last me about 3 months and that was it. So Henry calls me up and says, Bill, would you like to be on a panel for DAA? And I'm like, OK, I said what is the panel? He says emotional sobriety. I'm like, oh man, you might want to pick somebody else for that.

I mean, I've been Googling emotions all morning.

You know, as a matter of fact, the last treatment center I was on, they had that thing on the wall that showed your emotions and shit, I didn't know any of them. You know, I knew depression and crazy, you know, that's those were my two main go TOS, you know.

So you know, I've been thinking about this emotional sobriety. I know it's a variety as I am sober, you know, I've recovered. There's no doubt not to something that I did. I did it and God did it in spite of me, really.

So I get what that is. And then I considered how, how have I been in the last four years and some change? How has my life been? How have I related to others? You know, I think the people here should really ask if I'm emotionally sober is my loved ones,

the people I work with, my family, my friends, you know, because I, I don't really think I am, but I think I am a little bit, I shouldn't say that. But those are the people that would know, you know, if I compare

how I lived and how I reacted, you know, even before and during this journey I'm on, you know, it's changed, You know, I've actually been accused of having no emotion at one time. And I thought to myself,

no, I have emotion. I know what heard is I know it's sad is I know what misses. I know what grief is, but I don't wig the fuck out. You know what I mean? Because you know why? Because I got I'm plugged in right now. I got this higher power. I nicknamed it God, you know, And when God covers my back, I'm good. You know, when he doesn't cover my back, which means when I don't allow him to cover my back, when myself will comes back. And I think I know everything.

I am not emotionally sober one bit. You know, I can be whacked out and freaked out and cry and you know what I mean? And crying is good. Sometimes I like to cry some days, you know? So you want this. I don't know what emotion this was, but when Chris Raymer spoke

and I've seen him a couple of times and I listened to him on YouTube, you know, I love the dude, you know, I mean, but I had this feeling

of warmth inside me

and I had a little bit of tear in my eye

and I just felt good, you know, And I I, you know, I don't know what that is exactly, but I liked it, you know, I like that feeling. I think what he, you know, he, he says what I try to live, but we all probably try to live. I mean, you wouldn't be in with a bunch of big book thumpers if you weren't into it, right, Because that's what DEA is, right? I mean, it's, it's the words. It's every word and every paragraph from the beginning to the end, you know?

So yeah, I, I just really,

I like that feeling,

you know, and I see a lot of people out here that I really love. I love everyone, you know, but some are super love, you know, because I know they put up with me, you know?

But yeah, I guess, you know. And then I considered, well,

his emotional sobriety similar to humility. The second I think I got that is the second I don't, you know, And I think for me it kind of is

because I really don't have anything, you know, I've got a little bit of a intervention moment right now that I'm hoping God is running through me and I know he is, and I'm sober, you know, That's not my normal strategy. You know,

I'm a junkie, you know what I mean? That's just not how I roll. But somehow I've had a blessing that from God and from people like you in this book that I'm able to do this. You know,

So I think my emotional sobriety stage started

when I first heard people like Chris and like you guys speak at a meeting while I was in treatment. Jones in and detoxing and sick and couldn't sleep like a bitch. You know what I mean?

And that word, hope I heard it. They brought meetings in, right.

And I, like I said, I've been dealing with this for 30 some years. Yeah, even before that, my first meeting when I was five years old, it was in my kitchen. And there's a bunch of people with my mom, you know what I mean? I didn't know it was an, a, a meeting at the time, but now I know it was, you know, so I've been associated with alcoholism and drug addition for a long time. Either I'm using it or I'm recovering from it, you know, So. Yeah,

my first time out there is this. What is this? It's just recording. Oh, that's nice.

Should I watch my vulgarity?

I can't.

So that hope message that I heard and somebody said the 4th dimension and I was kind of like rolling my eyes on that. I'm like, what the fuck you talking about? I mean, are you talking like when I eat peyote? I mean, I've been there,

but it was enough to keep pique my interest. And I'd heard this for years, you know, and I wanted this, you know, I really wanted this. I didn't want to live like I did. Good times are gone, right? You know, it's it's like a sludge movement. It sucks.

I I think that's when it started. Not that I was had any emotions, but freaked out at the time. But as I progressed through this book as somebody took me by the hand like a 2 year old word for word, this thing. And and Chris, I love you, ma'am, but we do it word for word,

you know what I mean? That's how we do it. And everybody, there's no right or wrong way. It is, but that's how we do it. You know, I'm so grateful that that's how I was taken through and that's how I take other guys through because the feeling, that's where I get this from. You know what I mean? What I what I find, what I have found God in any other method besides this exact process? I don't think so, you know, I don't, I really don't. And I know some people can, and that's great, man. However you find God is right. But first I had to see who the hell I really was,

you know, a self-centered prick, you know, full of fear, you know. And you'd never told me that before I'd have taken a baseball bat on you. I am fearless, you know. I was riddled with fear, you know, come to find out,

I had to go through that whole thing, every step, every stage, every feeling, you know, and somebody said you'll find God at the third step and I didn't, man, you know, I mean, it's like, and I now I know that hell, of course you're not going to, you know what I mean? I started to believe there might be one, you know, possibly. I'm not going to guarantee it, you know, but it's possible. I'm willing to believe there might be something out there, you know, and that's all I needed, you know,

that's all I needed. And then as I progressed

to find out who the hell who the hell I am, what makes me tick, you know? I'm sick as fuck, you know? Is that what makes me tick? You Pretty much, yeah. Yeah. But as I peeled through the 4th step of the first step, I kind of saw who I was and that it wasn't a pretty picture, you know, I, I was willing to let something come in to help me to rearrange my thinking. You know,

man, if anybody needed to be brainwashed, yes, brainwashing is not a bad term to me. It's like I'm grateful for it,

you know? I don't want to think like I used to. My perception has changed. Looking at people by daily activities at the friggin gas station in the morning is different, you know, Very seldom do I get pissed at the old lady that's or whoever it is in front of me fiddle fricking around with lottery tickets, you know? So I'm a little pissed, but you know,

life has changed and I'm forever grateful for that.

So as I'm progressing through these steps with someone,

things are changing. Sparks are going are firing, and some sparks are going down. You know, I'm starting to believe things that I never thought possible to believe. You know, I mean, the first major thing was I don't want to get high,

you know what I mean? Yeah. Peace. Yeah. Yeah,

I, I everything's good, Henry.

I don't want to get high. Where did that go? You know, where did that go? You know what I mean? It's like, well, maybe there is something out there, you know, because, because all the times that I tried to do that, which believe me, like everyone else, we all tried to not do this, right? To to not get fucked up, to stop killing myself somehow that was removed, you know, and there's no doubt in my mind that was removed through this process.

You know, there is no doubt in my mind because every other time shrinks, suboxone, methadone, I didn't get none of it got removed. You know what I mean? I could chill out and I could, I could live with you kind of, you know what I mean. But nothing had changed in my life, you know, So I was real grateful for this as I'm progressing, as I'm seeking really, because that was a big thing. People told me seek God, you know, and, and, and

I kept seeing different things differently. I kept feeling differently.

The obsessions removed, the insanity is removed. I'm starting to be a better human being, you know, and I like that too. That gives me a warm feeling, you know, I really do. I, I love that feeling. I'm checking it out. And then the biggest thing that happened to me and I'm going to get to emotional sobriety. All right, you know what's cool? When I first met these two nice ladies, they were so chill and I'm ready to shit my pants, you know what I mean?

So thank you for coming me down, you know,

So yeah.

Oh, you guys, I'm telling you, you know, so as as I'm going through this feeling differently, feeling warm and caring, I'm introduced to helping others, you know, and, and I mean, helping others in many ways is good. Anyway I can help others. I go to work. I don't go to work to make money. I don't go to work to do anything but try to be of service, you know, and that makes me want to go to work, you know, for an example. Then I start sponsoring guys, you know, it's like, wow,

some real shit changes happened on man. I mean it, it just you know, and not that I knew or tried to do some things changed inside my life. You know, that I I started caring more about others and I care for myself. That's not me either. You know, that's not me either. That's a God thing, you know, and and I I just, I just loved it, you know. So when I look at myself today,

how do I handle situations in life, comparatively speaking,

I think much better. You know, I think my emotions are not on the roller coaster so much. They're they're more like this now. You know, my life is like this. It's not the Pekin Valley thing and it's not the boring goofiness that I thought this would be. You know, this is OK. You know, this is OK. This is a good way to live. It's a good way to. I like being a human being in society. You know, I wasn't that before. You know, it's nice to be that. It's nice to be one among you, you know, not try to be better, not not being worse. Because that was usually my case that I thought

so, yeah, it's nice to join the club of humanity and it's really nice to join the club of recovering people. You know, we have, we have a common bond. Theoretically, we have a common solution. You know, I know with my people, I have a great common solution. I think all the time if I didn't have the crew that I had, how life would be different. I wouldn't want to see, I wouldn't want to experience it. I really wouldn't I? I've been so fortunate from the time I got washed into that weird ass treatment place. Why

up there, I don't know, was a God thing because I've been to four or five of them before and I escaped every one of them. You know, I stayed there. I was introduced to some people that were solid, some people that lived this and this was that, you know, this was straight up how to do it. And, and I, and I bought it and I'm still buying it, you know, and I'm still seeking God. So I don't know, I, I guess I'm going to kind of wrap this up. Hopefully I'm not too early. I'd like to blow too much smoke up anybody's ass,

but

I really

think there's some friends here that if you guys want to see if I'm emotionally sober, I'm going to ask them too. That I want you to ask them what they think because I'm not really sure, You know, I know that when I rely on God,

everything is cool. You know, every operation of my life is cool. You know, that would, that's the magic ingredients in my life

and it is magic, you know, to me it's magic, you know, I don't know how it works, why it works or nothing. I just know I plug into the source and I'm mellow, you know, and life is good and I treat people good, you know. So, like I said, I am so fortunate to Henry. Thank you. Thank you. I should have probably been on the Sex, Drugs and Rock'n'roll panel,

but thank you and I and I, I, I thank all of you and I love you also. Thank you.

Thank you so much, Bill.

Now I'd like to welcome up Jamie S.

All right, hey y'all, I'm Jamie. I'm a drug addict. I just realized said y'all, I'm from Georgia

and and then I got to learn a much more about Wisconsin because of learning where they live. Oshkosh, which I didn't even know was a place, which is incredible. But thank you so much, Bill. I, he texted yesterday and I'm going to rat you out. But he said I think Colin had texted us and telling us to be here like 15 minutes early. And his response, which I don't know who anybody is on this, on this group text rate. And he goes, well, hopefully I'm emotionally sober by then.

And I have never related to anything more. I, I ended up registering for this conference because the committee had asked my fiance to speak. And she speaks for 30 minutes tonight and then tomorrow as well. And y'all, I've been following this woman around for almost six years. Like absolutely obsessed with her. She's got such a strong message. It's Lindsay M by the way, so you will hear her tonight.

But extremely powerful woman and has been so helpful to me and in so many ways. She probably has no idea,

but I I was like, oh, you know, I mean, I'm going, I should, you know, offer to be of service in any way that I can. And they're like, Oh, you speak on a panel and I'm like, sure. They're like emotional sobriety panel. And I was like,

do you know who I am? We're watching a, a stand up comedian, if you like on, on Tiktok actually. And I sent it to, to Lindsay because she's, she's a gay woman. And she's like, you know, I'm like, like my emotional range is like a box of crayons, right?

And she's like, I am the 64 pack of Crayola, right, with the sharpener on the side, like everybody's in mint condition. And she was like, my partner is, is the three pack you get from a restaurant

and like there's happy, sad and broken. And I sent it to her and I was like, guess who I am? Because I really do. I, you know, it sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly with this shit. And I've been at it for a long time. My sobriety date is May 16th, 2011. I was first introduced. Oh,

thanks guys.

Just decided to join the land of the living a little bit. But I first got introduced to the program in 2010. I had several sobriety dates in 2010. I had several sobriety dates in 2011. And then I actually tried to commit suicide. And that was when the universe saw fit. You know, spirit separated me and I'm forever grateful for that.

And I had no idea what I was doing. You know, it wasn't,

I love what both speakers had to say from the podium. Absolutely incredible. But I, I related so much in just this absolutely hopeless condition, right? And the fact that it's a disease and I don't know that I'm suffering from it, right? Like, I, I feel like I, I could understand when I was going through withdrawals. I could understand when I got a cold, I could understand when you got a stomach virus. It's pretty fucking obvious, you know what I mean? But I did, I really didn't understand alcoholism. I had no idea what that meant.

I was 19 years old when I got sober. I had only got to experience heroin and crack for four years, you know? So I was like, there's no way that this is time, right? And there's there's no way that it's supposed to look like this. Like I didn't fit this mold that I thought I needed to fit. And honestly, looking around the rooms of AAI didn't fit in there either.

And I really love what Chris said about like trying to sit down with a crackhead because I'm like, I, I get that

plenty of alcoholic women with 20 or 30 or sober tried to sit with me and they're like, you did what, what were you doing with that toilet water? Why were, you know, why is this happening? I have algae growing in the inside of my body.

I but I don't know, I'm I'm just so grateful for the the various teachers and in the direction that it led me. I spent two years in a treatment center. I got out and was thrust like a let go just loose into the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous. I would speak from the podium about heroin addiction and people in a a were like, what is going on here?

No idea about the traditions, the concepts, nothing.

And the one thing I can say is that like I, I think it all lines out exactly how it's supposed to be. So I,

I think it was around 3 1/2, four years sober. I'd gone back to college. I'm getting my degree.

I'm, I'm suffering immensely and I have no idea why

I was, I was working with someone who's taking me directly through the big book, word for word, line by line, really investigating my experience through four steps. I work the steps a couple of times at this point. And I was standing on top of one of the buildings in downtown where I went to school and I'm smoking a cigarette and I could not stop thinking about jumping off this fucking building.

And I couldn't make sense of it. I didn't understand why I felt that way

had had no idea, you know, and looking back is all 2020, which is

it is what it is. But Fast forward a couple of years, I'm at six years sober. I'm like, am I even a heroin addict? I don't know if this is real. What is alcoholism? Go seek out a new experience. Continue to do this stuff right. So I find new teachers each time and then at year eight again the same thing where I'm just coming up against it again and again and again and and like I said, I think there's a reason for all of that, right. Like I, I don't know that at

90 days sober, sitting in treatment that I would have been able to look at a lot of the stuff that I'm up against. I needed to, I needed to continue to go through this process, right? Like I needed to continue to have awakenings through the 12 step process in order to get to a point in which I could actually see some, some of the underlying darkness. And, and I'm really grateful for, for all of the experiences,

'cause I mean, between year 8:00 and 9:00, I'm in this beautiful romantic relationship. I finally found partnership, right? I'm engaged to be married.

Everything is going from the outside looking at amazing. I graduated from law school. I was a practicing attorney in the midst of a pandemic. Like what the fuck's going on? Everything looks fine, right? But I'm like this close to shaving my head

and like this close to just running as far away from my relationship as possible. I'm like trying to go for certain federal jobs that I'm not qualified for. I had applied to the FBI, which now that that process is over, I can actually talk about it, which is great.

But I'm like going to all these really cool things. And I'm like in front of it like a panel of agents. And I'm like, yeah, so I did a lot of heroin. And they're like, excuse me? And they have like all these drug policies I didn't know about. And so they're just like, get the fuck out of here. So it's like all these things, right? Like these teachers and like going to law school, become a lawyer, getting the relationship, do all the things. I don't know if that's a whole eternity or not. It was to me like I really felt like, OK, like this is what it's all about. I just got to chase the next thing. And, and what's absolutely

fascinating is that none of those things cured what's going on here, you know, and I don't know, I've spent the last like year and a half in, in in depth trauma work, really gross things, inner child, you know, like getting handed the, the fucking feelings wheel and you're just like, I don't know, like where's the sad category? You know, and they've got like 147 different emotions on this fucking feelings wheel. And there's people that are like,

I'm sitting in this, my, my fiance takes a big book study to an actual treatment center on Tuesdays. And I filled in for her and they, they hand me this fucking feelings wheel. And they'd already gone around the room. And these are people all with like up to two years sober and they had all picked their feeling And I was like annoyed, like frustrated, you know, So I guess I say all of this to say that I've never truly felt like emotionally sober, but I think that's the, the most incredible thing.

The process itself is that it's going to continue to, to kind of what is it? They say? Like, I don't know, the layers of the onion, right? Like we're just onions, which I find gross, but it's, I've got to continue to peel away. And, and that's been my experience is that I've continued to come up against these things that I feel like I should not be coming up against, right? And it's all riddled with self. That's all that it is, you know, and I've tried the depressed depression route.

Every psychiatrist will agree with me that I am depressed, right? They will all agree with me that I have panic disorders, that I've got all of this shit and I can walk around a human fucking zombie. I really can't. You know, I've done the Prozac gig sober. I've done, I mean, they just gave me a litany of things that I could, you know, if I can take. And not to say that I'm against medication or anything along those lines, but they're supposed to serve a purpose, right? Like everything that I'm being given in terms of any kind of outside help therapists,

12 step programs, they're also supposed to help me on this mission to find God, right? Like I'm supposed to be made whole. And, and it's an incredible thing. I think through 12 step work that we're able to get there.

So I mean, I think I'm am I close or oh, ten incredible. That's like 5 more minutes.

Awesome. So, yeah, I, I say all that because you're going to, in my experience, I've continued to be LED in the right direction,

right? And, and there will be like, I really love the roller coaster analogy because actually a psychiatrist told me that's what I was experiencing. He was like, you're like this. And I was like, yeah, I know that's about it. That's exactly how I'm feeling. And then even I think, I don't think CVB's in here. But even last night when Stevie was talking, my favorite moment was when he was like, I'm sitting across from her at dinner and I'm doing this mental illness thing. And I was like, I've been doing this mental illness thing for like

11 years.

So it's a, it's amazing because I guess what, when it really comes down to is that what I'm able to do through 12 step work. And I've, I've been, I tend to go back through every year to year and a half. It kind of rolls around. Sometimes it's like nine months if I'm feeling really, really weird. But even this past time through, I think the the best part is, is I made this analogy a couple of weeks ago and I spoke down in Atlanta and

because I was thinking about it, I'm like, I'm a fucking attorney, right? So we we have to do continued legal education every year. You've got to go back and you need a refresher, right? Like I don't want an attorney. I'm not going to hire an attorney if I've got like,

I don't know, several federal criminal charges against me who does not do continued legal education. That would be scary. It's like, OK, you're like going off of what you learned in law school 25 years ago. That's horrifying. Same thing with doctors, right? Like, it would be really weird if a doctor didn't do his continuing education. I don't want him cutting into my back if he doesn't know what's going on now, right? He's relying on Med school 32 years ago. So I say all of them because I

truly do believe I need refreshers on this shit, right? And I need refreshers from people who have more experience than me

or have more experience in other areas of life than me. There was another thing that I love that Chris said. We're we're talking about like we're just talking out of our asses. Like, what are you talking about? Are you talking about your own legitimate experiences or are you just like making things up? I was telling Nate before I got up here, one of my favorite things that they did to me in law school is if you provide an answer, they'll say, where are you reading from?

That is such a great question. And the amount of smart Alec children that go to law school because I was like a little bit older than everybody else. And I'm looking around the room and they all just came straight from undergrad into law school and like having a hard time relating to them and whatever. And I would like love those moments when a professor would be like, yes, so Andrew, where are you reading from? Right, Because he's just making things up as he goes along.

So I, I love that that concept, right, is that I'm able to continue to have actual experiences and continue to grow that way.

And I, I'm just very, very grateful for it because what this process does for me is it actually puts me face to face with me because up in here, like, I have no idea what's going on. It's extremely dysmorphic. Like the way I view the world is extremely dysmorphic, not connected to God, not going through this process, not actively participating, prayer, meditation, inventory work.

And not to say that those things are going to,

I don't know, like the, the check boxes aren't going to alleviate what I'm up against, right? Like it's going to be a spiritual experience that alleviates me from that, right? But those check boxes are so fucking important because they allow me to actually see what's going on, right? Like that I can, I can see that I'm an emotional terrorist at 10 years sober, right? That I can see that I am highly abusive emotionally, right? I don't even mean to do any of those things. That's not my intention. I only want to be loved. I only want to

taken care of. So I think it's it's an incredible thing to continue to be able to sit back and kind of watch right when we think of like 10 step work, when I think of watching like just watching what the fuck I'm doing. Love that you said like if you want to know if you're emotionally sober, ask your friends and your loved ones, because I do believe that that the answer would be definitely more so than last year for me today, and I'm so grateful for that. So the, the process really does like kind of unveil this whole thing.

I did want to bring up, I'm going to go overtime just a little bit, But when, when we set emotional sobriety, I got really freaked out because I was like, where the fuck does that even come from? Right? It's not in the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous. Like I don't speak to any. I'm even a little weird about the 12 and 12 year old. So I was like, it's not in the big book. Where, where does this come from? So I was actually also Googling emotional sobriety and I found a Grapevine from Bill Wilson in 1958 about emotional sobriety.

And, and essentially what he's talking about is the disease, right? The selfishness, the self centeredness that covers me all up and the work that we need to do in order to actually have that fall, right? And it really does like placing myself in a position in which I can be of maximum effectiveness, right? So that I can be useful to other people.

It's going to take some rearranging to get that to work. So I think that's that's all I've got. But the Grapevine is a great article. Thank you.

Thank you so much, Jamie.

Now I'd like to welcome up Madison, WI native Marissa S

Hi, I'm Marissa. I'm an addict.

I am really, really happy to be here. It's an honor. It's an honor to be to be a service anywhere at any level. So, so this is awesome. Thank you so much for having me and thank you both for sharing before me. That was awesome. I think it's really important to to talk about how good our lives get in,

you know, in recovery and sobriety being recovered. But but I also think it's really important to talk about the pain that we get in in, in, you know, when we're sober to. And that's what I want to share a little bit a little bit about is just my recent experience, you know, well, some of all of my experience, but I recently hit an emotional bottom and

I didn't man, I didn't even know that it was coming. You know, I knew that I had been

in pain for a long time. But you know, The thing is like, I can have faith but keep God out of my life. And I wasn't letting God into an area of my life that I needed God the most. And, you know, I'm an addict. So guess what? I trick myself. I trick myself, right? Like, am I maintaining my spiritual condition? Hell yeah. I'm going to meetings. I I'm meetings aren't helping that. We talked about that this morning. It's true. Like, I'm going to meet it. Wonderful. Great. That's not doing shit.

What is what is you know, I'm sharing at meetings, I'm hearing things. No, I'm praying, I'm meditating, I'm talking to my sponsor. I'm I'm, you know, I'm working on my relationship with my higher power and, and I'm praying and I'm praying for this area of my life, right? I'm praying about it. I'm asking for specific guidance. I'm, I'm, I'm being of service, I'm being useful. I'm and you know,

and I tricked myself, right? I get answers and I

and I and I'm, I turn him into something else, you know, because I manipulate. I manipulate and you know, so that things will work for me.

And I didn't bring my big book, but I have this nice little piece of paper here. And on it is a quote from that wonderful article

because I was doing the same thing. I'm like, you know, and there's like there's a, there's a bit in the 12 and 12 from step 12, the the Bill Wilson writes about. But

but that Grapevine article is great. And Bill Wilson kind of describes, I think, like his version of emotional sobriety is. And this I'll, I'll read this and I'll tell you how to translate a right mental conviction into a right emotional result. Not all it's this is not only the neurotics problem, it's the problem of life itself for all of us who have got to the point of real willingness to hue to right principles in all of our affairs.

And, and to me, and I had to think about that.

I had to think about that a little bit. And, and to me, that's just like that's aligning my thoughts with my actions. And you know, the big book does talk about like handling our emotional natures. And that was something I certainly couldn't do, you know, and I like that you, you know, you talked about these like happy, sad, broken, right? Like when, when you get asked like what, what are the first emotions that like come to mind? Right, happy, sad, mad, I don't know. That's what there's like these umbrella terms. So I've got one umbrella and it's fucked up,

you know, and, and it's like,

so through emotional and through emotional intelligence, like I'm learning how to become more emotionally insured, more emotionally mature. And really that's to me is like what I'm working on right now after this, like, you know, emotions used to be a single distressing experience, right? It's like I can't, I can't figure, I can't, I don't know how to communicate it, how to express it. It's just this, this awful feeling. And, you know, and I coped by using

drugs and alcohol, you know, that's how I that's how I dealt with anything I was feeling. Didn't matter if it was good or bad.

And so I think that, like, you know, so through

emotional intelligence, I'm learning to become more emotionally mature. And in that article, he does talk about, you know, growing up, growing up spiritually and emotionally. And I think what I'm learning right now is like, I'm learning to speak the language of the heart.

And part of that is like those umbrella terms, those umbrella terms, like what's under those umbrellas, right? Because I'm going to respond differently if I actually understand what I'm feeling.

Anger is the dubious luxury of normal men, right? Like the grouch and the brainstorm weren't weren't for us. We're going to recover. We, you know, we need to be free of anger. So I'm not I I was like, am I mad? Yeah, I'm mad. No, actually I'm, I'm maybe I'm just disappointed

and my response is not going to be the same as if I'm actually feeling really hurt or, or, or mad, right? Like it's going to be a little, it's going to be a little little more down here, you know, because I am not, you know? And so

I lost my train of thought.

So I think that it's those little, it's just those little idiosyncrasies, you know, that I'm really just trying to bring into, you know, have to bring these things into our recovery. Like we're, I'm in a constant state of healing,

constant, you know, and now it's even more intense. Now I'm like, anything that's healing, I'm like, oh man, I'm gonna be on this panel. It's gonna be so healing. I'm going to this, I'm going to this conference going to be so healing, you know, like I'm lunch with my friends going to be so healing, you know, and, and it feels, and it feels really good. And I'm doing a lot of reading and I'm really learning things and, and I'm, and I'm like

working on that, you know, the maintenance of my spiritual condition because it's that directly related to my emotional sobriety for sure.

I really feel that that it is that it is for me. I'm just not as emotionally volatile if I am doing the work, you know,

or emotionally manipulative or abusive, like you said, you know, and there and I have a lot more compassion, I think, for people in my life that I feel like are abusing me emotionally or manipulating me because like I've done it, you know, I've done it to people and

I don't know. That's all I really have to share. I just you guys were you guys were awesome. You said so much and I'm so I'm just I'm happy to be here. And yeah, thanks for having me

I.