The South Bay Roundup in Torrance, CA

My name is Scott Redmond. I'm an alcoholic. Hi everybody. I was really annoyed and irritable until about 10 minutes ago. I looked over my friend Bob Fisher and he stuck his tongue out at me and And I love him. I love Bob Fi. I love him the pieces. I'll tell you why I love him. I love him 'cause my wife loves him. And my wife loves him because early on when we came to the program 19 years ago,

my wife really, really respected and held in very, very high regard Bob's wife, Ellen. And, and she came to know Bob through knowing Ellen. And he was one of the first, you know, drunks that my wife Nancy would say, geez, what a great guy and made me feel great. Makes me feel great when a member of Alcoholics Anonymous represents us well. And I just, I love them to pieces. And I'm sitting up here, I'm like ready to keel over. I've gone down three hat sizes in the last 45 minutes

and

my depends are full and

I look over and he stuck his tongue out and I know he loves me. I love him when I when I see him, that's that's what happens to me. If you're new, I'm sure you're thrilled for Bob and I

like to welcome the guy who who won the countdown.

Looked like you had been voted most attractive man on your cellblock. Really

hope you never win again.

Hope you never win again.

And we're two hours into this, so I'll tell my favorite story about being bored and Alcoholics Anonymous. If you're new and you're bored, welcome to AA.

I had a friend named Jeff D who used to go to my old Home group, the North Hollywood Group. And when he was new, he was shifting around in his seat at this meeting and his sponsor said to him, what's the matter? And Jeff said, I'm bored. And his sponsor said, well, you know why you're bored, don't you? And Jeff said, no, sponsor said, you're bored because you're boring, that's why you're bored. And it was like an acid moment for me. Just went wow, wow. Freaked him out

and he thought what a cool thing to say to a newcomer. He could hardly wait till a newcomer told him that they were bored.

13 years later, no newcomer has told him that they're bored. And he was at a meeting at our old Home group and he was with this young lady who was new and she was shifting around in her seat. And he said what's the matter? And she said I'm bored,

He said, well, you know why you're bored? She said. Yeah, because I'm with you.

So if you're bored, welcome to alcohol extent.

If you're a drug addict, welcome to AAA. If you're a dope fiend, which is somehow worse than any of us, welcome Alcoholics Anonymous. If you're a crack monster. Who? That's scary. Welcome there. I like to welcome all the all the tweakers. Welcome. Tweakers. Yeah, right. They they have no idea why they've raised their hands. They have no short term memory. But we're, well, glad you're here. Glad you're here. If you've ever masturbated till you're dehydrated, welcome to AI. We're glad you're here.

You're so special and we love you so much.

If you've ever licked all the features off your own face, welcome to AA. But I love you guys. You stay quick for a long time. Every part of your face is moving in a different direction.

You're special, special and I'm not making fun of you. I'm coming pretty close, but

but but I'm not making fun. I'm really not because I don't really care what you have. I don't care if you're the big footed dope addicts, if you're a dope Goliath, if you're the dope juggernaut, I don't care. Just catch alcoholism. Catch alcoholism. We'd love to give it to you. You know, I caught alcoholism and Alcoholics Anonymous meetings. I did not have alcoholism when I got here. So if you're new and you don't have alcoholism

yet,

welcome. And I, I, you know, the, my sponsor used to say that the infection enters through the ear and it infects you. And, and that's what happened to me. But I certainly did not have alcoholism when I came to Alcoholics Anonymous. Number one, I'm Jewish and Jews don't drink

because it might dull the pain. And you know, you don't want to, you don't want to squander any agony opportunity that presents itself.

But you know, it's a funny thing that that identification is a suffering Jew. We all have these identifications to these kinds of things. And once they get held up to the light, they vanish. They can't, they can't stand the light. They disappear in the light. You know, there are these things that we cling on, we get attached to and we make them who we are until we find out this incredible thing that we're part of this incredible thing.

But my whole life, my alcoholism went below the horizon. It stopped presenting itself as a real and present danger and a real piece of business. And I drank no matter what. It's a mystery. It's an absolute mystery. There are several other reasons why I was non alcoholic. I had also, I had been in psychotherapy for 18 years. By the time I got to AAI was going to be dead, but I was going to understand it. And I am not putting therapy down. It says on page 133 of our book if you need a doctor go get one.

I got no beef with therapy and I have no malpractice insurance, so I'm not apartment to tell people what to do in that area.

My colossal mistake with therapy because I've used therapy many times for myself and my family in in in sobriety. I was trying to treat my alcoholism with psychotherapy, which is like showing up at a gunfight with a knife. It's just, and getting these colossal ass poundings, you know, I mean, the idea of most conventional therapy, Freudian based therapy is to uncover, discover and, and and unravel to free associate,

even delve into your past. And if you're neurotic, if you have neurosis, a neurosis is you have anxiety and then you come up with a resolution for the anxiety, but it's worse than the anxiety. It creates more anxiety. So your solutions are worse than your problems. I don't know if this resonates for anybody here. So I'm trying to get rid of this anxiety. So I'm in therapy. I feel terrible.

Why? Why I was so drunk yesterday. I was too drunk to walk, so I drove.

Well, what are we going to do about that?

Let's talk about it. Hey, I got an idea. Let's talk. What were you thinking just before you did it?

Nothing,

nothing, nothing. My head got too big for my cranium. My mouth filled with saliva. The room spun. I went out for a pack of cigarettes and wound up in Baltimore. That's what happened. Treat that. Treat that with psychotherapy.

So I did not have alcoholism when I came to Alcoholics Anonymous. I had a terrible journey to AAI was brought up in the Bronx in New York City.

He is definitely here with the witness protection program. I know him

and there's no statute of limitations on what he's done.

And I was brought up to a in a completely insane family. My my wife never believed me about my family until she met him. And my mom threw an engagement party for us, and my Aunt Rose came to the party and wore her wig backwards and it had a bun on it and

she wore it like beret style, sort of a jauntily Askew.

Their psycho

if you got anything for free of my family and then it was stolen and I had an uncle who used to get it was a welder and he used to get free bales of steel wool. Like here's your paycheck and your complimentary bail of steel wool. And his wife took a decorating course and made throw pillows and filled all the throw pillows with the free steel wall.

So that stuff works its way through on you after a while. So when you were at their house, everybody was moving a little bit. You know, the, the whole room was like a living, pulsing Organism,

very troubled, very, very troubled people. And there was a chronic institutionalization and suicide attempts and mental and physical abuse. And if you're new here, all I've got is good news for you 'cause my family didn't have one single thing to do with making me an alcoholic.

I'm not telling you I wasn't injured. I was terribly injured. And I'm not telling you I haven't had to do a lot of stuff about that I have. I'm telling you they they didn't make me a drunk. I have a bizarre physical reaction that makes it impossible for me to control and enjoy or moderate my drinking. Once I begin, I am cut out from the pack. I'm a group of allergic people. This allergy does not exist in normal people.

And if you're special in a drug addict, try some controlled crack smoking.

You know, just fill your mouth up with crack smoke, say I'm not in the mood and blow it out. And,

and hats will fill the air and you'll be so very special.

And I've got this wacky thinking it would be OK if I had this physical problem because I just wouldn't drink again, right? People who are allergic to strawberries don't find themselves all puffed up because they just can't stay off the goddamn strawberries. But I keep taking a drink as I got this wacky thinking, I've got it now. I've got it 19 years in. I had it when I walked in. I've still got it. And that's why I do more now than I have done since I came to a A. I've been hanging out with people since I got here who when things get good, they do more. When things get bad, they do more. They do more

and

I was 14 years in, I'm 14 years sober. I needed this surgery on my hand and the doctor said to me,

you know, Mr. Redmond, you're going to need general anesthetic for this. And I said general anesthetic. That's great.

Normal people don't get excited about general anesthetic. There's no normal person that goes,

but I do because I know about general anesthetic. I know that they when they hit you with it, they say count backwards from 100 and you go 199.

I love 99.

I love 99,

but I won't chase 99 anymore. I won't trade my life in for 99. One of the most misquoted lines in the big book of AA for me has always been

my worst day in here is better than my best day out there. No,

no, no, let's see a pound of cocaine and an all female jazz band

or a panel at Redgate. I don't know. What do you want to do?

I don't know

what do you want to do?

What the guy at the end of Chapter 3 says is I wouldn't trade my worst thing in here for my best day out there because I won't trade this way of life. I won't trade it in for 99 anymore. I won't do it. A couple of years after I got the surgery, I was about 16 years sober and go to a different doctor and he said, you know, that surgery you had on your hand you're going to need on the other hand. And I said, guess we'll be having some of that general anesthetic. I won't.

And he said you don't need general anesthetic with this. And my first thought was no, I need another goddamn doctor. That's what I do fast.

So I got this bizarre physical reaction. I got this wacky thinking,

alcoholic thinking. It's the source of a lot of mirth at Alcoholics Anonymous meetings.

And I developed this cancer of the soul, the spiritual tapeworm that ate me up from the inside and left me hollow and insane and alone. I grew up in this family in the Bronx. Nutty, nutty family. And you know, if you're new here, I'm not telling you that. You know, if and you come from a bad place, I'm not telling you that you don't. But I am telling you that if my problem had been my family and what was done to me, I wouldn't be talking here today. The I had good therapy,

you know, I would have worked out my family problems and I would have been OK

if I didn't have this weird thinking and this horrible spiritual illness. And you know what? I knew what my problem was the day I walked in, AAI didn't know what it was my problem. I hated you. I hated myself. I was terrified. And I had done things sexually that I didn't recall, and most of them just involved me. And I certainly wasn't going to share them with another human being.

And you know what? I've

that only gets a round of applause at an Alcoholics Anonymous minute, I'll tell you that. The Rotary doesn't. The hats don't fill the air at the Rotary.

I and I hated me, but nothing compared to how much I hated you. I've I've always hated you more than I've hated me. I'm I'm not a I'm not a suicide guy. I'm a homicide guy. I always have been you first and I always had this fantasy that the paper would read. Scott Redmond kills wife, kills children and refuses to commit suicide.

And I'm I am not knocking the suicide people. I'm not putting the suicide people down. It's just the flip side of the same coin. And it you, you before me.

But I didn't know. I felt those things very intensely. The first guy came in a a The thing I didn't know was I didn't know that that was the architecture of the soul sickness that had plucked me beyond the possibility of being helped by well meaning clergy, family doctors, people who loved me, my hopes, my dreams, my desires, my children, anybody. You can't stack it up against

that soul sickness. And I didn't want to be an alcoholic. Growing up in the Bronx, I was, my father was a bartender and he was not a drinker. He was a great guy

and but we knew a lot of people who died from alcoholism in my family and I didn't want to be one of those guys. I overcame my alcohol problem with marijuana. I'd like to welcome all the pot smokers here today. And you remember Wow, right? Another round of applause for marijuana. It's unbelievable. You remember Wow, right?

Wow,

Wow.

And right after wow usually came

what?

What?

Wow, what? Wow, what, Wow, what, wow, what? Watching a pot smoker is like watching a dog try to run on linoleum. There's, there's like a lot of activity but no movement. They just can't get a claw in the rug. Man,

I overcame my marijuana problem with pills and

I triumphed over pills with cocaine. Cocaine is an excellent drug. It's particularly good for sex if you enjoy sex from the Neolithic period

and kick that gold on cocaine with with heroin. Heroin is a very dark, complicated artistic drug menu. Cross the line and become a vomiting pig. I'm not I I gotta tell you something, I am really do not mean to offend or piss off anybody. I'm been asked to tell my story.

Carol asked me to talk. And so if you want to straighten anybody out after the meeting, please see Carol C Carol T should be more than happy to talk to you about it. But I really, I really do mean that. I don't mean to offend or I'm just telling my story. And one of my ways of avoiding alcoholism was to move my way through these other addictions and other substances. And

that was in my early 20s. And my father had a massive stroke. And I was, I just shot some heroin and I couldn't show up for my old man the night that he died. And

oh, it's just mind boggling to me. I just felt like a pig, like an animal. I had holes in my arms and the curtain was down. I couldn't even go and give my pop a kiss and touch him on the cheek and watch him take his light into another room. I it was horrifying to me. I just couldn't imagine how I had wound up in that place. And I, I had to do some quick thinking. I couldn't possibly be the guy who couldn't show up for his old man, the 98. He died. And I,

I came, I, I did some quick work and I figured out it was heroin and needles and all I had to do is never, ever put a needle in my arm again. And I wouldn't be that guy,

wouldn't be that animal who couldn't show up for his old men because the ice around my heart had already become so thick. I had so rearranged my life to accommodate the walk to the drink. My father wasn't moving on. My father was dead and gone, and he's going to rot because this was an aimless cipher wandering nowhere.

I had, I didn't even know how much I had rearranged my life to accommodate the sickness even by that time. And I was, I was 21 years old

and I didn't, I didn't put a needle in my arm for 13 years. And shortly after that, I was acting in a Broadway play. And I, this new usher, right, with long brown hair, walked in and I took one look at her. I didn't even say hello to her. I walked back into the dressing room and stood on a chair in this dressing room and announced to the male members of this company that if anyone talked to the new usher at with long brown hair that I break all the bones in their hands and feet.

And

we celebrated 28 years of marriage on June 19th,

in part because we've never wanted to get divorced at the same time, which is

there's a lot of timing involved here and a lot of love.

You know, my, my, one of the defects of character that has been so troubling to me has been mind reading. I, I, I, I, I think I know what people are thinking. And it's never done me any good at all. I, I, my wife once said to me, you're not a mind reader. You're barely a mind user.

She said it very sweetly, though,

and we had a great time. We're in our early 20s, living in New York. I was acting on Broadway. We had a great time, great time. I certainly wouldn't trade my worst day in AA for that time.

And Nancy, after a bit of time, started becoming a little troubled and

and difficult and she became kind of pronouncedly sick after a year or two. And I came home one day, we had these 32 ounce iced tea tumblers in the house and I came home, I popped a cork on a bottle of wine and emptied the entire bottle of wine into this glass.

I turn on my wife was giving me her pre al Anon rat face

that one and I said what? And she said what are you doing? And I said I'm having a glass of wine.

Can a man have a glass of wine in his own home?

We got so sick that at one point a guy lent us his car and we sold his car.

I will never forget this guys voice on the phone as long as I live,

he said. You sold my car. That's like house sitting for someone and they come back and you're in escrow. You know,

the alcoholic life becomes the only normal one. We didn't have rent. No, no, really. And I looked into my wife's eyes and I said to her, I am so sick of being a punk, irresponsible kid. Let's stand on our own 2 feet. Let's not borrow money. Let's do the right thing. Let's sell the car. And my wife looked at me with tears in her eyes and said let's do

I was 10 years sober. I'm talking at a meeting. My wife is sitting next to her sponsor. And I tell that story and I see her sponsor lean over to her and and her sponsors been her sponsor since her first month And go you what?

That was fun

and that's what he he did it. He did it just 'cause I forged the pink slip, it means I did it.

At any rate, I know why I was able to sell that car. It's the same reason that I get excited when I'm told I need dental surgery.

I leave out the middle. I leave out the middle. I go right from you need dental surgery to Percodan. I I leave out the middle. I leave out the surgery. I leave out the sutures, the incision, the whole thing. I let's do the right thing, pay the rent. I leave out Grand Theft Auto. I leave out the whole thing. So if you're new here, welcome to the middle.

They're really big on the middle here. They're obsessed with it.

We had our first son, Micah, and he was really, really welcomed into the world by our our community. And we were surrounded by friends and family and got a ton of phone calls in two years and nine months later, when our son Jesse was born, there were no flowers, no phone calls, nobody came to the hospital. We had become completely isolated by the disease of alcoholism. And just those two years and nine months. And it wasn't because people didn't love us.

It just hurt too much to be with us. We pressed ourselves on the people that loved us like a thumb upon a bruise. It was too hard. The ice around our heart had become so thick, and it just repelled our entire community. And Jesse got sick. He wound up in a neonatal intensive care. And I got a call from a doctor I had never met before that night. She said your wife's in extreme psychological duress. She's completely isolated here. Your son is sick. Where are you?

And I said to her, you know, I can't find anybody to watch my 2 year old kid. I can't come down there.

This Doctor Who I had never met before said, you know, my husband's home. I'll give you my address and phone number. You can take your son to my house and my husband will watch him so you can be with your family. And I said, no, I couldn't. I couldn't do it. I couldn't accept her generosity. And now my son, poor son, Micah, had to be locked in the house with this insane man, racked with grief and shame and guilt. I would have done better to take him down to the hospital and leave him with a coloring book.

And I didn't know it was alcoholism. I had no idea it was alcoholism.

And and then things got worse

and

two years and and actually was so reminiscent of Bill's story where he describes this horrifying life he was leading

too too scared to drink poison dragon is mattress down from an upper floor so won't pitch himself out of the window waiting for his wife to come home so he can steal money for her. And then he says little were we to know and for us little were we to know that this was going to last for three more years. I don't know what how do you know if we can only engineer a bottom That guy who took the book today, you know, in his first day, he might never take a drink for the rest of his life and he might be drunk by 6:00 tonight. It's a mystery.

It's an absolute complete mystery. And if you're new here, I want to, I want to congratulate you for having this opportunity. If you've actually stopped drinking, if you've stopped drinking, they're not drinking. Deal is is a moose. If it wasn't for the not drinking thing, we'd be a much bigger organization. I guarantee it

good not drinking thing really screws a lot of people up. But if you, if you stop drinking and you, which means you've stopped treating your alcoholism with a drink

and you're accepting the craving, when the craving comes up, you're not treating it with a drink. You're basically saying, I will accept this craving. I'll take the whoop. And every craving has a beginning, a middle and an end. An obsession doesn't. If you can accept the craving and stop trading it, you can become available for the removal of the obsession through the 12 steps which bring about a personality change where your alcoholism will stop going below the horizon. And it will stay above the horizon as a real piece of business all the time, even when you're not concentrating

on it, because they'll be buoyed on the shoulders of the men and women of Alcoholics Anonymous and the higher power that you're introduced to. It's incredible, incredible. And as it says in our book, sometimes we, we come up with an appealing, compelling reason to stay sober for a period of time. But eventually, if it's of our own will and our own on our own juice, it will go below the horizon and it won't be palpable. It won't be real. I'll fail to recall with sufficient force the memory of the pain and humiliation of a day a week

ago. And I'll begin the cycle of spree and remorse again. And instead of being, and if you're new and you're accepting that craving to drink, we have a cycle here. It's called the cycle of surrender and commitment. And it's a moose. It's got huge, huge shoulders. It's just as powerful as the cycle of spree and remorse. And what we do is we present you with some spiritual tools, not spiritual weapons, spiritual tools.

So you can bridge the gap between those two cycles is extraordinary.

On April 22nd, 1985, that crossed the line I swear I would never cross again. I put a needle in my arm. My sons were six and three and they were a wreck. My younger son couldn't stop pretending that he was a robot. My older son was reading and writing years below his grade level. He couldn't complete small tasks a small motor. Skills were all screwed up. And there was nothing organically wrong with my children. They were so scared and so disrupted from being frightened all the time. They were suffering from untreated alcoholism and I didn't know it.

And this is the wreck that our life was at that time. My wife had become a tongue chewing, babbling idiot along with me. I'll tell you what, right before I got sober, this was a good day in the Redmond home. We started on Broadway. This is where we wound up. I had an accident. They took my blood pressure was like 160 / 110. And the doctor said, you know, Mr. Edmond, you have high blood pressure. You're you're going to stroke out. We need you to lose some weight. And I said, you know, I'd like to do that, but I drink alcohol and I smoke marijuana before

bed every night, so I'm not going to be able to.

And

the doctor said, well, why don't we prescribe some medication for you? And I said, what a country.

And he prescribed me chloral hydrate. Chloral hydrate is a fast acting knockout drop. It's a Mickey. It's like getting hit in the head with a SAP. And I love these pills. I love, love, love my knockout drops. So Nancy comes home, I'm standing in the hallway eating handfuls of knockout drops and slamming my arms into the hallway walls to keep myself awake to enjoy my knockout drop because you don't want to waste a perfectly good knockout drop. So I keep eating pills and whacking body parts into the wall until I just seize.

I keel over and now

I get it in a bed and now I'm incontinent like the rest of the 33 year old men in America because I can't. I've got too much Mickey in me to get out of bed. So one night I got up and wet the wall and my wife was excited. The next morning he wet the wall. He's headed towards the bathroom. You know, it's this progress, not perfection. And this is it's a Wheaties morning

on April 22nd, 1985. I crossed the line I swore I would never cross again. I put a needle in my arm again. My sons were shattered. My home life was a joke. My career had run out between my fingers like a handful of water over and over again. And I called my therapist of record in my 18th year of psychotherapy, and I told him what I had done. And he said to me that morning the exact same thing that Carl Jung told the man who 12 step, the man who 12 step, Bill Wilson. I didn't know this at the time,

but once I read our literature, it really made me feel good. Carly Young said to this guy Roland Hazard, after having psychoanalyzed him and Hazard drank again. Carl Young said I can't help you. You're beyond help. And that's what this therapist said to me. He said there's absolutely nothing that can be done for you. I said what, what are you talking about? He said I can't help you. The only thing I can suggest is you is that we have your institutionalized and this is the only thing you said that call Young

say, or you attend a meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous or Narcotics Anonymous. Now, why I went to the a, a meeting, I couldn't tell you. I mean, I'm a guy who gets excited about dental surgery. You know, why I didn't choose to go to the mental institution, I don't know. It's an absolute complete mystery to me. But I set my alarm clock. I woke up at 5:00 in the morning. I went to a place called Unit A which at the time was on Victory Blvd. Near the lovely Tonga Hut.

Polynesian themed bar.

I do believe if Satan is on Earth, he is at Polynesian themed bars in them big wooden heads.

And I, I walked into this room. I took one look around this room and I said to myself,

Oh my God, how did I wind up in Alcoholics Anonymous? How lame is this? This is beyond lame. This is beyond church, beyond synagogue. This is some plateau of lameness I never even imagined was available to me. And the room looked like it was the product of like, 200 years of inbreeding.

I swear to God, they were like, they were like identical twins carving their initials on each other's feet in the back of the room. I mean, from my point of view, right? And everything was a miracle. I'm a miracle. You're a miracle. The coffee's America,

and I'm waiting for the Jew hunt to break out. I know that's gonna go right. Come on, Jaime, strap these antlers on.

It'll be fun. We'll knock Aspenio off and when he bends down to pick it up, we'll push him over.

Always wanted to run a big buck Jew.

Oh my God. And then the AA unsolicited information guy. He saw me after the meeting, right? You know him, He's got a belt buckle large enough to serve an entire fish on.

Do I want what you've got?

No, no. But thanks for spitting on me, Clem. I really appreciate it. I'll come back next week. Should I bring my own bib overall? So we going to hook a rug?

I couldn't believe it. I I was, my skin was crawling by the time I got out of there.

I went back to that meeting every morning for a year

and I tell you why I think why I think I did because it really is a mystery to me.

There's another meeting going on over there.

I was out of plans. If you're new here, I pray for you that you're out of plans. If you're new and you have a plan,

it's probably a beauty.

Don't use your plan. Grab one of us after the meeting. Tell us your plan.

We want to know the plan.

My favorite newcomer plan, and it is to this day the most utilized newcomer plan I've seen over the years, is the

one more dope deal to set myself up financially for sobriety plan.

It gets more popular the closer you get the lemon Grove, I'll tell you that. But

I, I hate it. I hated Alcoholics Anonymous and I I was at a plant

my wife Nancy reached out to the Al Anon family groups and I So one of the great things about this conference is the Al Anon participation. I'll just share you this with you because I'm speaking and I can I one of the most hurtful, confusing things to me when I when I came to Alcoholics Anonymous is I attended a meeting now and again why I hear people telling jokes about Al Anon and I'm not talking about good-natured jokes. God knows we tell enough good-natured jokes about Alcoholics. I'm talking about mean, ignorant jokes. And I

sit in my seat and I was so proud and so happy that my wife had reached out to this thing. And I'd be very confused and injured. I'd say, jeez, I mean, number one, Can you imagine going to a meeting and hear it and telling people, telling ignorant, hurtful things about Alcoholics Anonymous? I mean, my heart would fall out. I mean, I know that the people would not have any functioning knowledge of the work done in a, a,

you know, and,

and I'd sit in my seat and go, isn't this what we're supposed to be doing? And you know what

it is. So if you're new here and I used to have all the votes, I've been whittled down to one by good sponsorship and,

and until I stuck around long enough to know that the people who were doing that really didn't have a functioning knowledge of of the work done in the Al Anon family groups. But if you're doing that, yeah,

if you're doing that on a public level, that's your vote that it's OK. It's my vote that it's not OK. It's my vote that it's not OK. And if you and if you are doing that, the thing I would really urge you to do if you're a member of a A is maybe pick up some Al Anon literature, maybe read Courage the Change may maybe listen to some Alanon talks.

You don't have to do that. But if you're going to talk about Al Anon, you ought to get a little information. Call me a nut, but it's the way I feel.

And Nancy's Allen on sponsor has is the love of my life. And she has been since Nancy started working with her a month and her name is Ruby and her husband's name is Milton. And they've been around for a long time. And and we had we were in really bad shape

and we had these insane rules in our house. Our kids weren't allowed to eat sugar curse or watch TV. So Nancy would give him a big healthy breakfast and put him in the car with me. Doctor death and say, hope you live. You've had a hearty breakfast. You're going to die,

but you'll, the autopsy will show a lot of whole grains.

It's just insane. And Ruby would get the get him over. And we were just made out of wood. We were Gray, you know, And Ruby would give him a big bowl of M&M, sit him down in front of the TV, turn on The Love Boat

and curse, you know? And

one day, Milton, Ruby's husband called me. He was, I think, 15 years sober at that time, called the boys over. And he bent down and he whispered, boys, your parents don't know shit.

And the kids went, Oh my God, we suspected but now it's been confirmed. This is fantastic. And they have loved Ruby since they were little little boys. She used to send him 5 bucks in an envelope every birthday

and

she, she loves them to pieces. They love her. And we, we started making the beginning. I was about six months sober. I was enjoying the gift of step none and I was doing nothing and receiving the gift of nothing and becoming psycho. You know when you see a guy at a meeting and he's grind his teeth down to the gums. He's got a vein pumping like a garden hose on his forehead and he's really getting the message. And

I was insane. And I, I wanted what my I saw it, my wife and she said she saw it in me and I saw it in her. And I asked the guy to sponsor me at six months of sobriety. A great guy.

And you know what my favorite bumper sticker is mean people suck. And I have found that to be true in Alcoholics Anonymous. I'm not talking about telling the truth, but I need the scalpel of truth with the anesthetic of love. And when I came in, there were some old timers in my area who are saying, shut up, you're a moron. Sit down. And I go, oh, it sounds just like home. And the fact is, is it took me a while to hang around a A and listen and watch to figure

because the the deal with some of these guys was they're very wise. They've been around for a long time. They have a lot of information. They were just really mean a bunch of these guys, they and the fact is there were a lot of other old timers who were doing inventory, working with newcomers, carrying the message and doing the thing. And I didn't want to be part of the frozen chosen. And I stayed away from those guys and have stayed away from them for 19 years. Those guys have not been my sponsors, you know, and,

and I got this guy to sponsor me and he invited me over to his house,

made sure I've done some reading from the Big Book of AAA and they took me through chapter 5 and took me through the 1st 2 steps. We got the step three, got on our knees and said a prayer, which I felt was embarrassing and unnecessary, but I did it anyway. And then he took me back and he gave me instructors on how to do a fourth step in the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous. And I stopped feeling like I was stealing someone's seat here.

Three months later, I went back and I read on my, my fifth step and nine months of sobriety, I did six and seven for the first time. And I wrote up my 8th step list.

And I try to share this anytime I talk because it's simply the best reading of step eight I've ever heard. And I heard it from a guy in my Home group. And I saw this when I was about, I saw this guy do this when I was about two months sober. And I've never seen him again. He was a guy named Nino. He had a heavy New York accent and he had never read Chapter 5 before. And he was there with a hospital group. He had hospital plastic on and he was reading chapter 5 in front of this men's group for the first time. And he got up to step 8 and he read,

made a list of all those we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all. Jesus Christ.

And he looked out into the room as if to say, have you seen this?

Do you know what the hell is in here? And it was so beautiful. First of all, it's the only thing I saw on the list. I didn't see anything else on the list, you know.

Not those people, not that money. I wouldn't have taken that much money if I knew I had to give it back. You think I'm an idiot?

If you're new, don't worry about it. It's eight steps from where you are anyway, for God's sake. And eight's not even the annoying one.

It's 9,

really annoying.

So I wrote up my 8th step and I didn't know what I was going to do about it. I didn't know what I was going to do about my dad or my kids or my wife. I just didn't know. I could not sit down with my sons and apologize to them. They were little boys and would have been a horrible burden to place upon them. I was going to sit down with my wife and say, hey, Hon, sorry about this eight-year suicide pact we've had.

And, and I was blessed with a sponsor who wouldn't tell me how to make amends. He said. Do your job in a, a do your job, man. Address your inventory as your spiritual task.

Do your job in Alcoholics Anonymous and thank God I got that. Anytime a guy I sponsor tells me that they are working on themselves, I always want to go. Step away from yourself. Step away from yourself, Sir.

I it's terrible. It's, it's terrible. It's one drunk talking to himself

and my disease reacts terribly to a frontal assault It it. So if you're new,

this moral psychology, this self examination with a moral application is engineered so that I can take action seemingly disconnected and unrelated to what I really think my problem is.