How the Hermosa Beach men's stag group broke up at a History Convention in Phoenix, AZ

It's a much better talk when he's meditated.

Just trying to calm me down.

So

loving fearlessly,

I believe that that's our job in Alcoholics Anonymous. That's our, that is what it is that for whatever reason that we are in this very strange and wonderful movement. And it's to learn to love without fear. And what we, what I'd like to do first is talk a little bit about the beginnings because you know, we're the history geeks, right? So

many people before they I guess we've actually. Anybody here know the Lincoln Library?

Remember the Lincoln Library? There was a A3 volume set that because most folks couldn't afford an encyclopedia that was like a encyclopedia that was in many of the homes in the United States in the in the early part of the last century.

And this is the description of the Lincoln Library or that has of the Oxford group. It's also interesting if you've got an unabridged

Webster's Dictionary. Frank Bookman, the Oxford Group and Moral Re Armament are all in there.

The Oxford Group, a semi religious but informal movement founded by Frank Bookman while an undergraduate at Oxford University in 1921. The name was first applied by the Press of South Africa in 1928.

The professed purpose of the movement is to solve personal, national and international problems by bringing men and women everywhere back to the basic principles of Christian faith, enhancing all their primary loyalties

without benefit of organization, memberships, subscription or definite creed. The movement rapidly gained adherence in nearly all countries of the world, particularly in the middle and upper classes, and was accorded recognition by the heads of many governments. Adopting the slogan of Moral Rearmament in 1938, the leaders of the movement sought by spread of its principles to stem the rising tide of international hostilities.

And here's a picture of Frank Buchmann at the Chapel in Keswick. I have a wonderful opportunity in in 2008. It will be the 100th anniversary of Bookman's experience and I'll be part of a group that is meeting there. And then we'll go to Visby, where Moral Rearmament was launched in Europe and then we'll end up in coast Switzerland.

So why am I talking about the Oxford Group and the traditions? Well,

almost everything that we do, from the format of this

weekend that we're spending together, which is exactly what an Oxford Group house party was, to the format of our meetings, to the tradition of sponsorship, to the steps that we work. It all basically comes from the experience of this group that Ann and Bob were part of and Bill and Lois were part of. And you know, Bill and Lois went to three Oxford Group meetings a week. The 1st 2 1/2 years

that Bill was sober when they were in Akron, that's what they were doing, was going to Oxford Group meetings. So that's why the format that we have. So one of the things about the Oxford Group is, is that Bookman never made it

a

another religion. He never made it another sect. He never. And this is the description that the group had of itself. You cannot belong to the Oxford Group. It has no membership list, subscriptions, badge, rules, or definite location. It is a name for a group of people who, from every rank, profession and trade many countries have surrendered their lives to God and who are endeavoring to lead a spiritual quality of life under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

The Oxford Group is not a religion. It has no hierarchy,

no temples, no endowments. Its workers have no salary, no plans but God's plan. Every country is their country, every man is their brother. And literally one of the one of the

knocks on Bookman and the movement was, is that all he was interested in was rich people. And

again, the thing was key man strategy you learn at the YMCA when you go into a place, you want to work with the people who have the opportunity to give them all, you know, to touch the most people. So they were involved with people like the Fords and had a lot to do with Ford's change of heart regarding the labor

strike. He was going to shut down all of his plants worldwide. And his wife, who was a member, said, you do that and I'm going to leave you.

And they sat down and they talked about it and, and he signed the, the labor agreements. I mean, but of course you're never, you never hear that story. And what was he, you know, did he have all of us have bad parts of us? But it's the thing about growing along spiritual lines anyway, the movement never had any money any, any place that that they went. They didn't even pass the hat at events like this. It was just that folks, if they felt like it had come up and give some money,

but they never even passed the hat. So there's this whole thing and, and the only reason that we and Alcoholics Anonymous have what it is that we have is we have the literature. If we didn't have the big book that people were buying,

the movement would be broke because we're not self supporting. So

if you're interested in inspirational book, it's a real thick one. It's on the tail of the comet, It's by Garth Lean. It's a description of the life of Frank Bookman, and it talks a lot about the about the movement, and it's a wonderful story. One of the things that I found

marvelously encouraging is that Bookman didn't really get cooking in his life until he was 50 years old

and until he died in 1961. He accomplished a tremendous amount, touched a lot of people.

So here's a a tradition our experience has taught us. Now we talk a lot about the, the multi lith copy of the big Book, you know, selling for $1,000,000 or whatever it was. I forget what the guy paid for it, but there was also a booklet that came out from New York in 1946

talking about the traditions. Bill had written a series of of articles trying to school the Fellowship on How is it that we can work together because everybody's having the same types of problems.

And that's one of the great things. One of the reasons why I believe that alcoholism is more disease today than I did when I was new is that I've heard a lot of fifth steps. Sam Shoemaker said that there is only one sin, thinking that I am different. And one of the things that I've heard from hearing all these men over the years is, is that we all get sick in exactly the same way. Some of us are a little more flamboyant than others, but you know,

we're all alcoholic meals. There isn't that much we can do,

you know, So,

so the same thing with our groups, you know, we all have the same types of problems.

This is kind of fun. It says Alcoholics Anonymous has but one purpose, to help the alcoholic recover if he wished or if he wishes. Yes. And it also says that Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on any controversial subject, nor does it oppose anyone.

And here's the table of contents on this book. And again, Bill will have this available on his website and all you have to, I mean,

he'll have it and all you have to do is e-mail him and and we'll be happy to send it so that you've got a copy of this. But there's a forward a thing on Alcoholics Anonymous tradition, the 12 points to assure our future. Who is a member of Alcoholics Anonymous? Anonymity money adequate hospitalization are one great need

clubs in a a a Are they here with us to stay

dangers and linking a A to other projects.

Will a a ever have a personal government in corporations their uses and misuses and then some things about the general service center, the alcoholic foundation, our general service office and the Grapevine. And then there's a very cute article in there or not cute, but it's it's kind of interesting about why can't we join a A2 bill talking about how he and doctor Bob were not able to just be members. They couldn't just go to meetings and how they knew that in every city,

in every town that the people that were older and sobriety couldn't many times just be a members because they were busy being, you know, the founder of a a in Detroit. You know, there was a certain responsibility and stuff that went with that. And so anyway, it's a it's a it's a fun, it's a fun piece. And all of this is also available on aagrapevine.org. Can't be a history geek if you don't have the digital archives through the Grapevine.

That's not an opinion, that's fact.

So

what what we'd like to do is talk about how it is that if we like Alcoholics, we all got sick in the same way and that we all could get well in the same way.

But I was a member of the, I am a member of the greatest Alcoholics Anonymous meeting in the world,

the Hermosa Beach Men's Stag. And what we'd like to do is we'd like to talk this morning about what happened in our Home group. So very much about like telling my story about what we used to be like, what happened and what we're like now since Tom Ivester stole all the information that we were going to do on the traditions. I mean, Can you imagine rolling in to do a thing on the traditions and Tom gets up and, and does that. Incredible,

incredible talk. And if you did not hear it, please buy the CDs. It is it is just one of the most engaging, inviting and loving talks that I've ever heard. But he took all the good stuff about, you know, the personal using traditions personally. So what? We have no resentment about it.

So what

it was more how to use it

correct, correct. But what it is that we're going to talk about this morning is

how the traditions have worked in our group.

Yeah, and, and, and try and flesh it out instead of sitting here and telling you about the, you know, the conceptual and philosophical background and why it is that I believe that anarcho syndicalism is best exemplified in Alcoholics Anonymous and the like.

We're going to share our experience instead. So this meeting that I, my Home group is the Hermosa Beach Men Stag and it was established in 1949 and it's one of these chaired meetings. Now when I came into the group, I had the, had the good fortune to come to you on the second day of May in 1979. And I haven't had a drink or smoked any of that funny marijuana or done any of those other things that I found so consoling, like sniffing glue since I came in.

But what I came into this meeting, very structured meeting, there were about 12 guys in the group, maybe about 25 members. But, and, and what happened is, is that it was a chaired meeting. So no hands recognized, no volunteering. It was basically a sit down, shut up and listen kind of thing. Now it's an hour and a half meeting because there's a lot of wisdom to impart about Alcoholics Anonymous on a Monday night.

And it's at 8:30 because all meetings were at 8:30 in those days, right? Because that's proper. So you can have dinner and then have the meeting before the meeting and

meeting after the meeting. And people under year did not participate. So you're at a meeting. I'm at this meeting and there's seven guys

and they take up the hour and a half and I don't get to talk because they don't want what I got. And it was very hierarchical. But the thing was, is there was a message there that had depth and weight. And over the years, what happened is, is it started to grow.

We had a

when Jay and I were going over this, trying to come up with something different from what Tom did,

it became no reason we could have done

more on the Oxford Group. And I mean, there's an illusion that

by a lot of people, myself included, that, you know, maybe the steps are ancient knowledge, but the traditions were really quite unique, very different. Well, when you look at what the Oxford Group, the makeup of the Oxford Group, you could see where Bill and Bob got the structure, and then they extrapolated on that.

When you read the 12 and 12 and you read some other documents about the problems they had early. Especially if you go up on the Grapevine and read some of the articles you read about the difficulty that Bill had in getting people to even pay attention to the traditions.

I mean, recently

Nell Wing passed away and on my little e-mail thing, I started sending out, you know, her obituary and some articles about her and, and there there's a lot more stuff that you can read. And one thing she would talk about is the struggle that he had with this and the arguments and fights and pissing matches that would go on. And, and and this is also quite ancient.

When you get people together as a group, things have a tendency to get a little flaky. It is human nature for someone to attempt to take over.

It is human nature for people that are correct to inflict that correctness on the rest of the idiots in the room. And when I got to the Hermosa Beach Binstag, it was a bit larger, but it was in a small room. We took a vote one time to move into the bigger room and of course it was voted down because

change is absolutely unacceptable.

So the group that wanted to move into the bigger room went down the hill and started another men's tag, which we immediately began to call a a light. The boys stag

and about a month after they moved and started their own meeting, we took another vote and moved into the bigger room.

Because we're brilliant and

common welfare. If

if all you have is meetings. We talked a little bit about this last night in the area of sponsorship. If all you have going for you is meetings, the structure of the meeting becomes critical.

It is where you're getting your program. And if the meetings are incorrect, then you're not getting what you need. And you become very, very forceful in the meetings. All of a sudden, the structure of the meeting is everything. And when you walk into the room and you sit down, you're immediately monitoring what's going on in the room, how it's being done, whether it's being done correctly or not. It's a very, very painful place to be,

but it's if it's all you have, that's what we do.

The common welfare is discarded.

It isn't about the common welfare.

I know what correctness is. I know how you should be. I know how you should conduct yourself in the meeting. I know. And if I get myself in a position of authority, I'm going to ensure that it be done that way.

Correctness becomes foremost. And when I showed up there in 1985 brand new, this is what I walked into. Did I know that? No, there was some comfort in the rigidity.

I I also, my background, my own personal background is as I was a surfer and a biker and a tough guy

and I never went to the beach. My motorcycle rarely ran and I was afraid to fight. But I looked really good. I looked good. I had the Chrome Nazi helmet and the primary chain for a belt and black greasy Levi's and big black boots with chains around them. But I had a clip on earring 'cause I didn't want to hurt myself.

So when I found this hard ass badass tough guy mandatory smoking Hermosa Beach menstag, I felt right at home, you know? I mean, that was I found my place. Let's be tough, let's be hard.

So the caring nurtures that we're exposed to are just a little allergic to change. One of the first things about the meaning that you should know is, is that the meeting started in the basement of a hotel in Hermosa Beach.

And in the early 50s, they started in Milano Club in Manhattan Beach. And so the Hermosa Beach Men's Tag had its meetings at the Manhattan Beach Olano Club for 40 years, and it never changed its name. It was the Hermosa Beach Men's Tag, but it meant in Manhattan Beach.

These are the kind of brain surgeons that saved my life.

The other thing is, is that Bill mentioned was the nicotine sauna. We were jackknifed into this little room. There were sixty seats. You know, you knew whether or not somebody had a pimple on their elbow. And during the summer, you know, everybody's smoking away and it was just incredible. You couldn't see across the room.

And then as as things started to change, one of the first things was, is that there was a mandatory preaching each week against the folks who were coming in from the hospital program

because this area of the South Bay of Los Angeles is fairly well to do. It had three hospitals that immediately saw the economic opportunity. Society was in the midst of this change where for about 10 years, you know, they just swept through and every bad drunk there was around, they were able to scoop them up and get them some help whether they wanted it or not. And so these places are kicking out every 30 days. They're each kicking out 30 to 50 people

that are coming armed with the knowledge that they've got five years of sobriety

from their 28 day program and are willing to share it with us. It was not their problem. You know, it was not the kids or the people who've been educated in the, in the the hospital. I mean, they're just saying what it is that they've been told. But we were not particularly welcoming them because they were telling us, you know, how brilliant they were. And we said, yeah, you know, try being able to walk to a liquor store for a week and see how you're, you know, your five years works, but.

Umm, so there was a mandatory preaching against the hospital program people. Let's say something to that

One time I came out of a hospital

and one time I'm sitting in the room and one of the icons of the meeting, Fearless Fred.

We all had nicknames back then and and I've been hopefully avoiding a nickname. They tried to tag me with Tinker Bill.

I think I I evaded that. But fearless Fred shared every week. Every week the same people shared every week. You could count on it. Fred Clayton J Every week, same P Rich Miller every week Fred's turn to share. He opens up the newspaper and reads an article about this hospital program

and did a 15 minute rant against hospitals in the meeting. No timer. You could go on. And who was going to stop him? And it pissed me off, you know, Finally I, I got angry

and I, I, I, somebody must have called on me or something. And I did my little rant in an outside after the meeting, a bunch of guys came around and went, yeah, man, it could talk like that now. We were beginning to develop our own little faction now.

Yeah. Now another thing that happened is, is that when did Jimmy come to us? It was probably about 931993. I started to sponsor a guy who had about three years sober who was a cocaine addict and I was sponsoring a few cocaine addicts at the time.

And

well,

my way of dealing with the alcoholic addict that I was taught was I was an alcoholic and an addict for three days.

And my sponsor looked at me and said, you know, Jay, if you're doing this because you think it's a little hipper and slicker and cooler, why don't you just drop it and try being like everybody else for once in their life? This is Alcoholics Anonymous.

How did he know?

So anyway, I did the same thing that Bill and inflicted that on others. And, and anyway, I had this guy came in who is active in Cocaine Anonymous and, and you know, he, he called himself an alcoholic and, and, and, and he started working with me and he got lit up and he started sponsoring a bunch of people. And so they all started coming to our stag meeting, and pretty soon we've got about 12 to 15 guys sitting over where Jimmy's sitting,

and they're all just cocaine addicts. But they were coming in and saying that they were Alcoholics and acting like they were Alcoholics for an hour and a half every. Now, were they Alcoholics? Of course they all were. You know, of course they all were. But they just were heir to a technology that I never got a hold of. You know, I got to do cocaine when it wasn't addictive. We just did it all the time.

But anyway, what happened is, is that now we've got folks that have been to the hospital

and now we've got the cocaine annex that are voting as a block. They're not thinking about the Commonwealth or the meeting or who it is. It should be that they're voting as a block, taking care of their guys. And and so there starts to be this thing and, and we all would joke about all the guys in cocaine Corner, you know, we'd throw them a bone. And

they, they called themselves the crew. They had the crew

and they would all show up together and they would all hang together and, and some of us were sponsoring them and we would make fun of the crew. We would be sure that we humiliated them every chance we got. No, I thought we were enlightening them.

Whatever.

So

we don't see it,

but the meeting is starting to calcify. I'm still saying, and I have always said that my Home group is the greatest meeting in the world. And if you don't think your Home group is, don't come over and try and you know, ruin mine. But what started to happen is there were some fears that are unspoken within the room. Now I know that here you guys don't have any of this kind of problem in your meetings, but this is what happened to us.

There's a whole group that are not being heard or felt.

We had a time where, you know, there wasn't, there wasn't any rotation spirit of rotation at all in the meeting. So the first thing we did is is that we got a timer to limit the rants. Now whether that had to do with Bill ascending to the point where it was a regular weekly participant or not, I'm not sure, but it was kind of about the same time.

And then we even put in the format that you could, if you shared last week, you had to pass.

But still it's the same people, Sharon, every week. So there's a whole group. We've got about 110 guys in the meeting. So there's a whole group that's never talking at all. Part of the group was very fiercely independent, a a, and they were doing it correctly. And these guys had very forceful personalities. But they were the kind of people who, when you said we're going to go volunteer at the Labor Day picnic, do you want to be part of the

they wouldn't even, they would not even deign to respond to you when you said we got the roundup happening. Would you like to?

You know, they'll come to the party on both these occasions, but work for it, be a part of the community.

What else about the well, around that time I became secretary. I was about five years sober and I actually campaigned for the job. It was horrible. I had these little suckers and a friend of mine made a little flag on it that said trust Bill.

I tried, he tried to have me impeached. I just, it was not right. And but I figured that in in clawing my way up the a, a corporate ladder, if I became secretary of the Hermosa Beach Men's Stag,

this was a major rung in the ladder. You know, this would I would be the head of the hard asses. And this is what I was going for. That year was absolutely the worst year of my sobriety.

It was

and being secretary, the groups, the factions presented themselves because if there was a problem or a perceived problem in the room, they came to me. You have to do something about this.

You have to make sure you have to, you know, in pretty And this was around all of a sudden, no smoking began to sweep Southern California. All of a sudden, the Illinois Club, of which Jay was on the board,

was going to go non-smoking. So now we had to have like a smoking section of the room and which side of the room was going to be non-smoking and smoking and, and people were pissed off. There were fights in the parking lot and other meetings were starting. It was hell.

And the insular group, the group that really subtly was not part of the a, a community,

but they were very staunchly Alcoholics Anonymous and they believed that they had, they were the light in the way and the correct way to go.

And all these outside activities had nothing to do with recovery. And they weren't going to participate in it. But by God, this meeting was going to be run correctly. They presented themselves in a very strong way.

One of the ways that this whole if if what you have is meetings, then the meetings have to be run correctly. There are things that are coming from the outside that are destroying Alcoholics Anonymous in your mind. One of these things is chanting. Keep coming back. It works. God could and would if He were sought principles before personalities.

Chanting becomes evil.

Chanting comes from the hospital programs. Chanting is destroying Alcoholics Anonymous. It is creeping socialism. You know there's something wrong with chanting. This was presented to me as secretary. The first guy that walked up and talked to me about it, I thought he was joking.

What are you talking about? You know, I mean, I grew up in a chanting habit. I didn't chant because I thought it was just stupid. But I didn't, you know, I didn't want to be seen as some sort of a Jesus freak or something like that, you know? So I didn't chant, but I didn't care if anybody else chanted. And I mean, they just present themselves as a lower form of life. You know, it's but to outlaw chanting, to actually have a law against chanting,

Why would you want to do something like that? Is it really an issue to these people? It was a big issue

and we had to have a vote. They pushed it and we voted. No chanting. From that day forward, I can't help but chant. I don't know, something, something happened to me, you know, and it during the readings of Chapter 5, the traditions that there will be no chanting or chiming in, you know, So whenever the guy would say, we put this in the format, whenever the guy would say no chiming in, I would repeat after him, no chiming in. Yeah,

you know, so

this is advanced spirituality. I'm glad you're all sitting down, but these issues like we're laughing now,

this was not funny. This is serious. These people really believe that chanting is some sort of an evil thing. And then there are other things that go along with that.

And I mean, the focus like this says you're focusing on doing a, a correctly and the meeting, I began to see it as having a really severe problem. And I would I begin talking to people about it, but people couldn't see it. About this time,

I or everyone Jimmy was secretary. A few years later, I'm feeling

ostracized at my meeting now. I'm one of the, I'm one of the old time members by now and there's maybe five or six guys that had more time with than me at that time, maybe three. And

I can't make a motion in the meeting without it just being blown off because it's me doing it now. Of course, it has nothing to do with my personality and my trying to keep the group informed and all that kind of stuff. I mean, they were just doing their best to keep me in my place. But it became really difficult. One time I asked Bill to come over to my coffee bar and I sat down. I told him I think I got to leave the group. This is my Home group. I've been there every Monday night that I'm in town

for about 15 years at this time

and he and another one of my sponsors said get over it, You got to. You can't leave.

So I can't leave, I've been told,

but I felt like it.

And

so we've got these factions, we've got the Super righteous,

we've got what I considered myself, which is the informed, you know, by now we've got maybe eight or ten guys that I've worked with that have all been to general service. So they've been infected with that.

Then there are the drug addicts.

Are they correctly alcoholic? Evil and corrosive feature in the man.

And then there's a large part of the group that is what I, when we were trying to come up with what to call them, call it the unaligned. These are guys that are just going to meetings. They like the they, they like the structure of the group. You know, I mean, it's, it's very much like Kabuki, you know, I mean, it's very everything is just done. Bang, bang, bang. And, and we've got some really silly stuff that's part of the format, aside from the no chanting and chiming in and no clapping,

don't clap.

And I love that, by the way, personally.

But so and, and so there are these factions and, and it's not that apparent, you know, I mean, you can't really see it because we're not all wearing T-shirts and hats and fighting in the parking lot. But there is a sapping of the spiritual energy. The group is not unified and we can't see it

because we all love the meeting and we all think that we're doing it correctly.

One of the terms of the Hermosa Beach men's tag, it's where the men are men and the sheep are nervous.

The other thing is, is that the, the code of the meeting that we, we all have flags at our South Bay roundup for our meetings and that really the, the, the,

the slogan of the group is work the steps or die dot dot

and you can kind of fill in the dots.

So. So

Jay comes to me and says I've got to leave. I can't say. I told him you can't go, you got to stay. You know, if I got to stay, you got to stay.

And then I go to him. And I say after a while, some years go by, I go, I got to get out of here. I can't stand this thing, you know? These people are just stupid, evidently, you know? And he tells me, no, you can't go. You made me stay, you got to stay. So they're starting to pick on him,

which pisses me off. I'm the only one allowed to pick on him. You can't pick on him, you know, And it's getting kind of nasty in the room. It's becoming apparent that there's something wrong

one day. One night one of the members of the group brings his

15 month old daughter into the meeting

and the thing blew up.

I saw him coming and I know the guy

and we're all looking at the kid and playing with the kid and and his wife had left and he was in. We knew that the problem he was having and it became apparent at some point that he was actually going to have the kids stay in the room. Now, when I was secretary of the meeting, this happened to me. A guy brought his kid into the meeting and somebody came to me and said, you've got to do something about this. And I said, like, what, what do you want me to do? He says you got to tell him to leave. You know, I said you want me to kick somebody out of an A, a meeting.

No, I won't do it.

So the guy went over and said something to the guy and the guy refused to leave and it just blew over. He came the next week with the kid and I looked at the guy and I said, are you going to do this? You know what's going to happen? And he sat down indignantly,

and the meeting went on. I mean, nothing happened internally. There was a lot of strife. I almost got into a fight with a guy after the meeting, and it was pretty ugly. So this guy brings this kid in the meeting. Well, the meeting starts

and one of the icons of the no chanting faction says this is you, you can't, we can't have this. And he went to the secretary and said get him out of here.

And the secretary walked up to the guy and said you can't keep the kid in here. And the guy says, who's going to stop me? I need a meeting. I'm staying right where I'm at.

So the thing just blew up. I mean, a vote was actually taken right in the middle of half the people didn't know what the hell was going on and everybody voted when it came down to when people were asked to vote. Does this guy have to stay or does he have to go? Nobody in the room or it was very difficult for a lot of people to tell, to say somebody to make somebody leave an A, a meeting just didn't seem right, irrespective of what he did.

So it was voted to let him stay. The icon walked out of the room,

followed by his lieutenants, sergeants, corporals and privates. I mean, it was, it was stunning. It was like, and the other thing that was interesting, I was at one end of the room and there were a handful of guys that I, I know this, this guy that left, he was a very good friend of mine, one of my best friends. And I know the guys he sponsored. And there was like four or five guys that sat there and didn't know what to do. And then slowly as the meeting progressed, each one of them got up and walked out as, and you know, what was going on. Why should I stay as I support my buddy?

It's my sponsor. Geez, what am I going to do? You know, if I don't go, he's going to be really pissed, you know that. Finally they would get up and they left and about half the room left out of 100 and some guys and the explosion occurred.

When that happened,

Jay wasn't there.

God would have. It was God working in our lives. Yeah, it really was. Kids. I'm out speaking. I'm out saving souls in San Bernardino, which is yeoman's work and at this great group in San Bernardino and. And I get in the car and the cell phone just starts ringing. Do you know what happened? This is what's going on. And I'm going, well,

what's the big deal? I'm thinking, you know, this guy's part of the crew. Why didn't somebody just get a big book and five or eight guys go into the other room and have a meeting with him? I mean, you know, but see, if I had been there, I would have been in the consciousness of dysfunction. I would have been in an unified group

and here it is this meeting that we all love. I mean, the guys that walked out of that room, you know, we like to say it was not about the kid.

They will tell you that that's all it was about to this day. They will say it was a violation of the traditions. You figure out which one it is,

figure out which tradition was violated. To them, it was a violation of the traditions, clear, unequivocally. Now, if you're a student of the traditions, a men's stag is a violation of the traditions. There are parts of the country that won't have men's tags. You never see them in Europe

because the only requirement for membership is the desire to stop drinking. If you have a meeting for men only, that's a violation of the traditions. You tell that to these guys, they look at you like you're an idiot and walk away. So what? What tradition did this man violate when he brought the little kid in? And if you can come up with one, what? Whoever wrote that tradition, which is hard to find, do you really suppose that what this person who wrote the tradition of not bringing a woman into a men's meeting?

Meant a 15 month old baby.

Isn't there a difference between the spirit and the letter of the law? Isn't it about unis unity, not separation?

Do you suppose we had some angry meetings about this afterwards?

And they really do believe that it was the first tradition that was violated, that it was a violation of the common welfare.

So what do we do?

Were Alcoholics? We try to fix it, right? So first we go into denial. Well, they'll all be back next week.

Then we go into fantasy,

you know, if why can't we all just get along? You know, I mean, they will come to understand, yes. We're not accepting the fact that half the membership is left.

Now. This is exactly the stuff that Bill was talking about when he was trying to get the traditions written On every side in every group, the same stuff happens. And I'll tell you, this was devastating to me. This guy who left is a guy who took me from my first meeting down to the beach and explained Alcoholics Anonymous to me. This is a man that I walked shoulder to shoulder with since the Carter administration

and he's gone.

This was the guy that showed me how to have a good time and Alcoholics Anonymous. He showed me how you walk up to the open bar and get a drink and bring it back and hand it to your wife and not drink it yourself. There has to be someone who shows you how to do those things, and this man did that for me. And a guy who's done yeoman's work in Alcoholics Anonymous.

Yeomans work

and all of his friends,

my friends. And they're gone.

What are you going to do? What are we going to do? We've got this desire to recapture the past, but it ain't coming back. You know, the dysfunction has finally erupted. And how is it that we're going to, we're going to do this? So

since I had been, I started in general service in, in 1979 and put eight years in it. And God bless everybody here who's been in general service.

And just as an aside to the old sponsorship thing, that if you're a member of a A, I believe that you have to put two years in in central service, two years in in general service, two years in in hospitals and institutions. You know, if you got sober and Alano Club, I'm sorry, but you got to serve on the board at some time because it was there for you when you came in.

You're a member and if you don't know about the organization you're involved with, then you're a taker. And as my friend nor help he used to see, takers are losers.

Just an opinion, but it should be yours.

So I had wanted to make the the we were always the Hermosa Beach men's tag. The format had always said that's the Monday night meeting of the most beach men stag. We only just had the Monday meeting. I always thought we should be a group.

I thought we should do I For years, it occasionally launched a great personal cost. The idea? The trial balloon. Let's do a group inventory.

So now all the people that were opposed to, you know, that would make all the weird comments about general service when you're given a GSR report. You know, the ones that would pay wouldn't pay attention or get up and leave the room when the the central office was talking about, you know, needing a little money and stuff. Or that the Illinois club might need to raise our rent because our stupid members are only putting a dollar in the basket in 2006 and seven.

What is wrong with that

or people that used to come in? I mean, how many folks do you know in a, a another little rant. How many folks do you know in AA that put a dollar in the basket and they're going to three meetings a week? That used to go to 15 meetings a week and put a dollar in the basket?