Ask-it-basket at the New Horizons group in Bend, OR

To learn something new through the literature today so that I may have a whole new experience with both the fellowship as well as these 36 spiritual principles. Amen. Thank you, David.

Once again, we welcome Chris R from the Ingram Solutions Group from Ingram, Texas, who will be answering questions about the 12 steps and Billy Ann from the Alpharetta Unity Group out of Alpharetta, GA. We'll be answering questions regarding the 12 traditions.

This Q&A session will be two hours in length because we wouldn't want you to miss anything. We'll be taking a 5 minute bathroom or smoke break in about an hour. We've had the Ask a Basket open for several weeks and we'll start with questions submitted to the Ask a Basket. If you'd like to answer, or if you'd like to ask questions from the floor, please put your questions in the Ask It basket at the address posted in the chat.

The workshop chair will be coordinating the questions.

Please don't raise your digital hand or submit questions in the chat. We'll be using the Ask the Basket as our sole source of questions throughout the meeting. Let's get started with our first question and it is for Billy. Billy, what are your thoughts on group groups or meetings using Tradition 4 to change the wording of the A, a preamble or the steps or the wording and conference approved literature?

Well, first of all,

asking me what my thoughts are on anything is a very dangerous question,

so that's number one. It's best I leave my thoughts aside.

I will refer to the literature

and and let's really talk about what tradition for applies to.

It applies to your own group conscience, for whatever your group conscience has authority over.

If you look in,

if you look in the 12 traditions illustrated, which I have, I have a whole. I have like a pile of books that you can't see to my left because I know that I'll be referring to them often.

But let's just say this, the literature doesn't belong to your group. It belongs to all of AA of the United States and Canada. So only all of a A in the United States and Canada can change our literature.

I'll give a very simple example.

I hate the blue card.

I hate the blue card. I can't stand the blue card. I can't stand what it says on it, that it doesn't match our conference approved literature. But when someone walks up to me at my Home group and says, Billy, would you read the blue card today? I simply say yes, I'd love to. And I read the blue card that's exactly put in front of me.

I don't add a sentence that I think should be there. I don't do any of that

because the group conscience is more important than me or my feelings.

And so I think when you're using Tradition 4, the most important question to ask is this.

Is this something that our group conscience has control over? If it's not, you don't get to apply Tradition 4. That's someone else's group conscience. Thank you.

Thank you, Billy. And just to note, the literature that Billy referred to, the 12 Traditions Illustrated, a link to the 12th Traditions Illustrated has been put into the chat box. Thank you, Ron, for doing that.

It's a great piece of literature. All right, Chris, this is a question from someone struggling to get sober. They say, how do I put the plug in the jug? I've been to detox. I've been in an IOP program, but I'm still drinking.

I, I think I First off, thank you guys for letting us come back up and visit this morning. God, it's, it's a it's nice to see so many familiar faces and I'm, I'm loving zoom guys because of it. So I, I watched some of y'all know,

I've worked in the treatment business forever and ever and I've seen him, a billion people come through the doors kind of in the same spot that was me for years, in and out, in and out. And I, I couldn't get sober.

Everybody thinks he'd come into treatment is going to get him sober. Coming to treatment will get him detox and give him some information. But they're still going to have to do the same thing. The little guy walking in off the street, walking into an, a, a meeting is going to have to do, which is actually work the steps. I watch more people come and struggle with this over and over,

throwing more good money at it. They can, you know, and, and still and they leave treatment and then they go back to IOP. One more thing to separate them from the fellowship. It's like sooner or later you got to go in there and you got to get you a Home group and you got to start, you know, finishing these steps. We we talked about it on last

last time when we were together. Guys, I'm a big fan of kind of following what the old timers did. If you look at the archive stuff, none of the old geezers back in the olden days took longer than a few days to work the steps. I mean, it took them maybe years to make some amends and stuff, but they were, they were through the work. They were actually out there working with others ASAP. Bill Wilson says if you want to, nothing will so much ensure immunity from grandkids, intensive work with other Alcoholics. So unfortunately in our fellowship, we've gotten to a place where everybody wants to

slow everybody down and you know, you're not sober long enough to help anybody and blah, blah. That's just exactly opposite of what the big book says. Our job is to teach that little newcomer how to work with that the newer Comer, and that's the way it is. And so if we could put a little speed on this and get some folks through the work a little quicker, I think we would have a lot more people staying sober. And I'm praying whoever that wrote this is listening.

My little phone number always goes on this little chat, my little e-mail. And you're welcome to holler at me anytime if I can help, you know, get you connected to somebody out there that'll help you with the work,

I gladly do it. Thanks, guys. Thank you, Chris. All right, Billy,

I've this is not I as in me, but the question. I've tried to explain Home group membership to those I sponsor who are Zoom babies. But because we now have access to so many online meetings that are not groups that are being told that they can get a service position in any and all meetings. Dedication and loyalty to a Home group is how I was brought up in AAI. Can't imagine it any other way.

Am I now being narrow minded and is the concept of a Home group not a thing anymore? Is it outdated because of virtual meetings?

Great question. I was just actually on a little bit of a rant about this about 1/2 hour ago,

so let me repeat that rant.

The Big Book last week celebrated its 82nd anniversary of being published on April 10th of 1939.

Inside that Big Book is the Oxford Group solution, put together with the problem detailed by Doctor Silkworth for the first time ever.

For an alcoholic, it is the recipe to get struck by lightning. That's what's in that book,

How to Get Struck by Lightning if You're an alcoholic, because it's very rare for us to get sober.

If you don't believe in the big book or if you're not interested in it not being changed or you don't care about whether people tinker with it or not, then don't have a Home group. Don't be connected to the middle of a A. But the most important reason for a Home group is because of the first line in concept, one

which I'm going to read.

The conference charter

left AA to its members.

Concept One talks about

how its members

remain in control of AA forever.

I'll read quote. The AA groups today hold the ultimate responsibility and final authority for all world services. The A A groups. Not me, crazy Billy Ann who has a million opinions. Not any lunchtime meeting. That's just a meeting that has no connection to the service structure.

We have home groups

so that home groups can remain

the final authority on World Service, which you have to interpret to mean our big book. The recipe for being struck by lightning if you're alcoholic.

As far as doing service at other meetings,

this was already a bad trend before Zoom.

It's just more people know about it now.

If, if, if, if if in the last year you are bothered because more people are doing service at more meetings that are not their Home group. I want to assure you Zoom did not 'cause this Zoom has just let the rest of us have a microscope or a pair of binoculars to see that it's going on.

Umm, the worst thing we do when we do service at other meetings

is number one, we take opportunities away from people who are members of those groups. Now, if it's just a meeting and not a Home group,

then other Home group members obviously should just, you know, if it's not a group, nobody there has that as their group. There should be limited service positions. But I want to make this clear, and I'm going to shut up with this example.

I'm going to mention a bunch of news organizations, not in any particular order of whether I like them or can't stand them. I'm just going to simply rattle off some names.

BBC, MSN, CNN, Fox News,

ABC. CBS. NBC

I could turn any of them on my TV channel at any moment.

Do you know what I won't see?

I won't see an anchor from 1 channel all of a sudden appearing as the anchor on another channel.

I wish it was that way with a a zoom meetings today because a a zoom meetings are the exact opposite. I tune into a meeting in Spain or in Italy or in God knows where at 7:00 and 2:00. Hours later I'm in a meeting in Iowa and the same pace person is chairing it,

or the same person as the speaker getter, or the same person is the greeter. And then the next day I go to another workshop and it's the same way.

And that to me sounds like a lot of ego. Thanks.

Thank you. Thank you, Billy.

All right, Chris, my sponsor says I don't need to make amends to myself, but if you said I could put myself on my four step, then would I not be on my 9th step?

Yeah,

Big book is pretty clear on page 66 that we're supposed to put our names on our inventory. I've seen it 1000 times. We're we're the our own worst enemy and we're supposed to put the people we are, we are resentful on our inventory. And so top of page 66 if you all want to read it, we last time we when we were doing little four step, I was telling you, I get more Flack about that. I mean, everybody's hair catches on fire somewhere along the line. Somebody got really, really attached to the idea that we don't put our name on there.

I mean, I, it may not be the top name, but I need to put it on there because I beat myself up more than anybody else and I, I need to stop. And I'm, I'm a big one for just taking care of yourself, guys. I'm not going to go make amends to myself per se, other than just be kind to myself. I, I, I, I spent a whole bunch of time, I got taken to a suicide attempt in 1987. It was simply just just just hating who I was. And, and I don't do that today. You know, I'm not going to sit there just talk

about myself. So I'm going to try and be a little bit gentler. And if that means considered making amends, by all means, go look yourself in the mirror and do it and forgive yourself for all the crazy stuff. I got to tell you guys, guilt and shame block a lot of people from a from a spiritual experience. That stuff will blocking just like fear. It'll block you. And I'm I'm a fan of it guys. Thanks.

Thank you. Thank you, Chris.

Billy,

my Home group, closed our meetings at the beginning of the pandemic. The group elected to allow for a committee to host them online meetings to get us through the pandemic. Many people who don't live in the area have joined this group and it's now their Home group as well. I'm afraid the pandemic meetings have taken place

have taken place in our old meetings and they may no longer be temporary. I love our new members. I don't want to hurt anybody, but I don't want to be part of a permanent online group.

Is it time to start looking for a new Home group?

Well,

I would suggest this first.

The service manual always suggests

something very unalcoholic,

that we don't go to extremes right away. I know that's difficult for people like us,

but it suggests a lot of times that we should search out for all available options. So this is a common problem in a lot of places all over the world. It's not AUS problem or a Canadian problem, it's all over the world.

First, I would say this,

I would hope that any member of A A who doesn't have to be perfect at the steps

but is practicing them at least to the best of their ability,

that their goal is not to destroy a Home group that existed prior to the pandemic.

Because that sounds extremely selfish to me.

A perfectly functioning in person group

that has done the right thing during the pandemic by whatever they do. Some groups meet once a week, some groups meet twice a week,

but they've put their meeting on a virtual platform and they've actually allowed some other members to join

who are not in their vicinity. I, I, I would hope that those people who have benefited during the pandemic,

I would hope that they're not going to try and destroy a perfectly good Home group that existed before the pandemic. So I think these lots of questions we didn't think about.

I was the person, you know, I get asked all the time, Hey, I'd love to go to your Home group.

And there's another Home group with about the same name as mine. And I had a burning resentment against my Home group, to be perfectly honest, because we would not go virtual.

And

now I'm glad we didn't go virtual.

Now I'm glad we don't have those problems, even though I wish we would have. But I I think there's always a flexible solution. I always believe that.

The other thing I would say is this, because I run into this in about 7

or I have talked to a few people who have this situation going on all over the world.

A lot of AA groups have decided to keep paying rent, much like businesses keep paying rent because if you stop paying, your landlord's not going to hold your space.

Some landlords take 100%, some take 25, some take 50 is all different variations. But I would remind all of those groups that if you are still paying rent

and you have no plan to go back in person, you are throwing away a money that could be used to buy big books for people going into prisons

or people who can't afford them. If if you're still paying rent, your group already has a group conscience that you meet in person, you're going back in person when you can.

But it's a it's a tough situation for sure. Thanks.

Thank you, Billy. Thank you.

This question is for both Chris and Billy. I'll ask Chris first. Could you speak about what an effective sponsor looks like reading the book, giving assignments, how much guidance and support to a sponsee and helping them navigate challenging times and decisions to be made while their own thinking cannot be fully trusted?

I great question

and I didn't know this for a long time and this was the same stuff I look for today and

it's kind of gotten kind of weird out there because so many people have so many different ideas of what good sponsorship is. What I finally got is and I consider good sponsorship is somebody that understood what was in the book that kind of cherry picked the steps and showed me what it was, you know, out there. There's I guess I get billion ways to sponsor somebody folks, But you know, early on, I think the question is, are you dealing with somebody that's brand new sober? Are you dealing with somebody that's been around for a while? I sponsor a lot of people that have been sober for, you know, years and years and years and just, and just, you know,

maybe they've lost the sponsor or maybe they just looking for a different experience. A lot of people in Alcoholics Anonymous miserable because they're not working the steps. And finally get clear the idea that maybe maybe I should work the steps. And so we get a chance to sit and visit and, and I love working with those guys in lots of ways. You know, we can sit down and read the books on we can.

I'm not a big one for sitting down at the title page because I just don't. I just just especially with a newcomer, it takes so long to get anywhere, you know, just take forever. And that I believe that there's again, that sense of urgency. My idea of a good sponsor is somebody's going to sit down and cherry pick and kind of point out in the book and explain the symptoms of alcoholism in the first step and then help us, let us get keep us motivated, hold us accountable to get on through this work. And you know, my guys can read the book if you know.

As we go along, but, but I wanted to make some, some, some speed in this and then and then it's accountability. I'm, I'm not one of these guys that monitor my guys and you're not supposed to do this. You shouldn't do that and blah, blah, blah. And all this. I, I just early on the little newcomers, I'm just going to gently guide through this, through this process. What's appropriate?

My sponsor, my first got sober was, you know, I remember a couple of times, you know, Chris, that was kind of inappropriate, which he said in that meeting, Chris, you know, you might not want to wear that shirt again. You know, it's just kind of inappropriate. And they were the nicest way. But there wasn't any of this dogmatic pointing finger. You can't do this. I mean, you know, that's where sponsorship always ends up. It's either completely ineffectual or it's the dictator style. And I just, you know, somewhere in between, there's some, there's some good stuff. So that's where I would go with it. Thanks.

Let's see, my belly's got the same. Well, I'll just go back to my previous point that Alcoholics like extremes. So do nothing or totally micromanage like Chris. I would tell you that often or not, it's only one of two situations for me.

Someone who is completely new

or someone who's been in and out of a A for years is and has done everything except a A I mean, it's usually one of those two situations and each are dealt differently.

I'll give you an example. I had somebody recently, a young guy who told me he got to his fourth step and stopped.

So I said, OK, we can sit down and talk about it.

Um, bring you Big Book.

And when I asked him where he left off in the big Book,

couldn't answer me.

You know, we all know this code word. Are you a friend of Bills?

We all learned that very quickly, that little kind of secret code when we come into a A. But I'm really more interested if you're a friend of Jim or Fred's. Preferably both.

If, if you're not A, if you're not a friend of Jim and Fred's.

Because how sad is it that I'm dealing with someone who's been in and out of a A for two years?

He tells me. He's at his fourth step,

but he's never read any of the pages in the big book.

And so

I do think we have a responsibility there to carry our message. Our message is the message in the book. But I want to point out, and I'll end with this, what Chris said. Sometimes, I think,

apparently with very dogmatic kind of Taliban sponsorship, it seems that the following line is removed from their big book.

What used to be the hunch or the occasional inspiration gradually becomes a working part of the mind.

I'm not here to create a Stepford Wife robot version of Billy.

The world has enough. Billies doesn't need one more of this one for sure.

My my job is to allow you to become who God wants you to be, not to create some duplicate. Thanks.

Thank you. Thank you, Billy. And if you don't know who Jim and Fred are that Billy referred to, be a good idea to read the book and you'll find them.

All right,

Chris, Step 5. Is it important to share your 4th step with your sponsor? Why not somebody else?

One of the

one of the problems we have, maybe it's how big of a problem it is, but it's a situation that we see often in Alcohol Anonymous, especially now with so many meetings. You know, back in the day, they used to be a handful of meetings and they were all, now we've got a meeting on every corner. There are thousands and thousands of meetings out there. And it's easy, especially in big cities to kind of flit around. You know, I go to this meeting on this day and I go to that meeting on that day and then, you know, and then Friday night, I'm on this meeting over here. The problem is, and I'm not talking about just in Zoom, in Zoom times. I mean, just in, you know,

and that kind of stuff, it nobody ever gets to know who we are. And I cannot tell you how how fragmented we become in our own fellowship. I want, I want this group to think, you know, know me this way and then this group. And that was the whole purpose of the sponsorship, as far as I ever understood, was that I finally got one person that I can tell all of my stuff to and and and get some guidance every time we talk. He didn't have to start at the beginning and give me the back story. I know

guys that I sponsor on, you know that we've been thorough fist steps with. All I got to do is walk in the room and look at him and I can tell you how they're doing

nine times out of 10, I can tell them that they're full of full of stuff that day. And you know, we need is we need to go have coffee real quick. Come on over here, bud. Then we can and we can sit and visit. I just, I don't the

I, I find it suspect sometimes when I want to tell my sponsor this, but I'm going to do this other piece over here with somebody else in a Fista. It's just some of this seems a little, a little, Yeah. Again, it's our secrets that kill us. The dishonesty in our life is what drops us in the in the in the hot grease. And it's like,

I just need to get with somebody that I can be honest with. If I can't be honest with that person for whatever reason, maybe I need to go find a different sponsor. You know, it's it's perfectly OK to change sponsors. It's just, it's just that simple. If I'm uncomfortable with enough to have that, I might be able to move on and find somebody else. I will say this, I think it's really important that you're going to do it with with multiple people. I think it's really important to share fist steps with people that are in the program. I know some of you could vehemently disagree. You know, I've got to, I've got a priest over here. We do this steps with

OK, OK, but unless that priest is in alcohol, it's anonymous. He doesn't know because in the 5th step, we're going to get our six step character defect list and we're going to get our eight step amends list. The book talks about it. From that fifth step, I'm going to get the, the, the basis for the, for, you know, the next couple of steps.

And so unless you're yeah, and other people out there won't know that there's just a bunch of confession at that point. And, and 5th step is way more than just a bunch of confession. That's what I got.

Thank you, Chris. Thanks, Billy. Regarding tradition, for how do you tactfully explain to a neighboring group that being everything anonymous, Being an everything anonymous group does affect a A as a whole, if indeed you believe that it does?

Well, I mean, I've said it before,

all a, a business goes in one or two buckets. My business or none of my business.

I think it's not my job to go to neighboring groups and tell them what they're doing is affecting. I believe that in a a we vote with our feet and that eventually that meeting will go away.

If they're informing people of the wrong principles, well then

hopefully some of those people will come into contact with members of your own, with your group or others. But if, if the question is implying

that if I think the street down the street, the group down the street is doing something

to affect days a whole because it's in everything anonymous meeting.

It's not my job. It's my job to take care of what's in front of me, what's in my group or if they ask me to speak there. I hate to break it to everyone, but you know there's a symptom in a a it's it's, it has the same 'cause I don't care if it's tradition related or big book related,

recovery related. It's people pleasing.

We're all willing to talk about things from a distance, but then you get asked to go and speak there and you're like, oh, well, I better not mention that because they won't like me or no, just bring your brand of a A everywhere you go and if people don't like it, they won't ask you to come back. But that's their loss, right? Not yours,

but we should try to stay out of being

the Police Department

of AA. And if you were to tell me, well, that group doesn't have a GSR, my answer would be thank God.

Well then at least I know they don't have a vote and change in the big book. Thanks. Thanks, Billy.

That also answers a couple of other questions that we had along the same line. So I'll skip over those. Thank you.

Real quick, somebody years ago sent me a little button, a little button called a, a police, got a little star on it looks like a little police badge. And I yeah, I've got him in the drawer. Yeah, they're great. Every once in a while I'm I'm almost tempted to put one on.

All right, Chris, in regards to step six and seven sponsoring a new a a

I get that there's only 14 lines in the big book, but as one remains recovered in sober, can there be more depth and step 6:00 and 7:00 and also expose a deeper journey into emotional sobriety

There? There can be. And I and I 12 and 12 does a much better job explaining 6:00 and 7:00 than than the regular big book. And there's some great books out there, Hazel. I mean, there's a lot of books out there that talk specifically about it. And I think it's, it's excellent to do that

unless you're working with a brand new Squeaky,

still sweating, alcohol drunk. And then I would keep it 2 paragraphs, just like in the big book. It's simple. We can get it, the better it's going to be. I just, there's, there's a little movement out there. It seems like, again, if you've been sober a bunch of years, man, let's take a deep dive and let's, there's workbooks out there and there's, there's lots of other stuff that you can add to the mix if you want to do that. I'm just, I'm always focused on that. Just that little new, new guy. Am I keeping this simple enough so that they can understand it

And I think Bill Wilson, you know, let's I mean that seven step prayer is asking us to get, you know, God help us remove all this this God is going to remove the stuff that we find objectionable that that separates me from all the folks around me and and Lord knows I had a few things that we're doing that and thank God for that. I keep it simple.

Thank you, Chris. Billy, how can a group effectively explain to a gambling addict or a meth addict with no drinking problem that says if they weren't, if they weren't supposed to share in an open a a meeting, they'd probably be dead. And that's what open a meetings are for.

Well, first of all, let's just start out with

a general principle I think we should all agree to regarding newcomers.

We don't engage in any kind of public humiliation at all, period, end of sentence.

So when you say how does a group deal with it? Well, if the group reads the definition of an open meeting out of the a, a group pamphlet instead of the blue card, well, it explains it, You know, I mean, I have one here. It's in my pile of like 12 things that I knew I would have to refer to,

but I'll read it. I mean, I think if you read this at the beginning of your open meeting.

Open meetings are available to anyone interested in Alcoholics Anonymous program of recovery from alcoholism. Non Alcoholics may attend open meetings as observers. Open meetings are our public information show to the world

and not only for people who think they might need a A. Therefore, social workers, parole officers, clergy and members of Al Anon and people interested in hearing an A a meeting but not participating.

If someone demands to know, I think the easiest explanation is going back to the purpose for open meetings. It's to put AA on display for the world. That's their purpose.

Their purpose is not to be all addictions anonymous. And again, I, I, I hate when questions are written this way

because are we saying just the gambling addict and just the methodic for somebody who's also an alcoholic?

If the person is just the other and not alcoholic, I would hope that a caring, considerate, compassionate a a member would have a conversation with them about finding a

about finding the right place for them to get help. But I do want to say this as I end this, I'm just going to pull it up. I hope I have.

I hope I put it in the right spot

in my

I don't, but I'm just going to say this. I find it very interesting that one of the other 12 step fellowships recently published their own 12:00 and 12:00

and the reason they published their own 12 and 12 is they have such a great respect for the Big Book.

They didn't want to create their own basic text,

but they're so worried about so many of their people who have their disease, who are dying in a a, who are not alcoholic,

that they specifically put in the front of it how important identification is for people who have their problem

that they need to get the identification before they get solution. So at the end of the day, I hope that people can be compassionate. Thanks. Thank you, Billy.

Chris, this might be a difficult one because it was about something you said

back in February in a three out three day session, but hopefully it is with you. What was the quote you had about a reunion with one's creator?

Yeah, it was a was sent to me years ago as a, as a anonymous quote. I have no idea who who quoted it. I I saw it on the on the information earlier. The reunion with the ones on Creator is truly life's highest experience. To rob a person of this experience

by offering or leading him towards something less should be classified to cry,

which I think is spectacular. Just gosh, just yeah. Just because you have a problem with God doesn't mean that person's gonna have a problem with God. And So what we need to do is stop apologizing for the fact that this is a spiritual program of action and and just allow them to have their own experience with it. Yeah, I wish I knew who'd said it. I don't. But I can send it to anybody that wants it. If if I'll put my e-mail on that chat again. And I'll be glad to shoot it to you in step two and three stuff.

Good deal. Thank you, Chris. By the way, I just want to mention that

our great chat chair, Ron has put the link for PDF version of the AAA group pamphlet that Billy referred to in his last answer.

He's put that in the chat as well as another one called Problems Other than Alcohol, which is another AA pamphlet. So both are excellent resources. Thank you, Ron.

OK, can I just go back to one of my previous questions because I found something that I was looking for and I I just want to am I allowed to do that for a second? Absolutely. So when I talk about not being the police and not being and and having to be compassionate,

I'm really talking about new people. You know who I'm not putting in that bucket of people.

I'm not putting in that bucket of people. People whose lives was saved by a A But now they are on a crusade to change our message

that I am not putting in that bucket. And I just want to leave you with these words of Bill W.

To those who wish to secede from A A altogether,

we extend the cheerful invitation to do just that. If they can do better by other means,

we are glad. So just want to be clear on that. Thank you, Billy. And what was that from that quote?

That quote is found in Concept 12 of the AA Service Manual.

Thank you.

That's so good. Yeah, it's awesome.

OK

Billy, my A group formed during the pandemic and is a virtual only Home group. There's not a single group member within 100 miles of my physical location. When using the groups platform for unofficial a a fellowship gatherings like coffee or chat over Zoom be in violation of the traditions.

Well, let's stay away from the word violation to start with.

So let's start with the description. I wish people would just start referring to their a A events or their a A groups or their a A meetings as a A groups or a A meetings or a A events.

It does not matter where it is,

Zoom or Webex or go to meeting or whatever else is no different than the basement of your local clubhouse or Saint Joseph's Church or whatever else.

We only have one kind of meeting or group

where it takes place.

Could be virtual, could be geographic, but that has nothing to do with it being an AA group. If you're getting together for fellowship for the group

and I see nothing wrong with it

if.

You're if you have a Zoom account or a Webex account that a group owns.

Let me ask you something. If you rented space from a facility,

would you sublet it to a non a a entity? I don't think so. I don't think you would. I think you would think that would look like it's implied affiliation and as we know the words actual or implied. Now if it's a group that gets together for game night

or coffee and it's for their group members, I don't see anything wrong with that. But

if if my group had a lease with the church, I would not be in favor of my group subleasing it to someone else that's not a A. It would look too much like we're affiliated. Thank you.

Thank you, Billy. Chris, when you were talking about the 4th step, it seemed like you were saying to fill out the resentment grid

from left to right on each person, institutional or principal. I was told we must go from top to bottom on each column, not across.

Could you clarify that?

Yeah, thanks for the chance to clarify it.

When I'm teaching it, you know, to a new sponsee, I'm going to go across so that they can see what we're trying to accomplish here once they understand what we're trying to accomplish. I haven't worked down in columns. It's just, it's so much faster. You can just stay, you know, put the person's name and then list all the resentments. That son of a gun, you know, he did. And then how it affected me, you know, and then, you know, then we stopped. And then we look at the. It's just so much easier to get going. You're changing gears too fast. So the others will

forever to do it columns down.

OK. Thank you.

Let's see.

All right, Chris, how do you qualify a newcomer using the Big Book?

The basically I try to show him the symptoms

when I sit down with a little newcomer. We're not going to spend any time much at all talking about the drama. If they're an AAI mean there's some identification stuff previously we can we can touch on, but I'm not going to waste a bunch of time talking about my story or his story. I want to get cut to the chase and look at the symptoms. Bill Wilson spends the 1st Doctor's opinion up to page 23 talking about the physical craving and 23 to 43 talking about the mental obsession.

There's a half dozen pages in there where it talks about the spiritual maladies. Years ago, I just, I jotted these, these notes and page numbers down on the little sheet. And I'm still to this day I use it like that. We can, I can sit down with somebody in an hour. We can, we can qualify less than that. Actually, we can qualify them and find out if they're an alcoholic or, or a little low fiend and try to help them get to the fellowship they need to do. But

again, this is the one area that we lose. It's a great question. It's one area that we lose so many people

because we spend too many people that want to sit well, we've got a little newcomer coming in. We're going to start at the title page of the book and we're going to read OK, but but his butts on fire. And then, like I said again, when the obsession to use comes back, he's going to go use and he probably not going to call his sponsor. I just from my experience all of these years, he just he's probably not. He's going to go get loaded and, and it's like if we can help him find their truth.

Bill Wilson, I mean, he just over and over talks about the different types of drinkers

he wants us to see. Everybody that drinks a lot is not an alcoholic. And. And that's the lurking notion in this person's head. Maybe I'm not as bad as you guys. And if we're not, if we're not careful, all those stories will scare them. They'll they'll they'll give them the ammunition they need to walk out the door because I've never eaten out of a dumpster. I'm not like Billy, you know, I have, but that's beside the point, you know, just. Yeah. So you just sit down and you do some specific page

paragraphs that we look at and and we're going to take the statements and turn them into questions. We're asking specifically, does this apply to you? Can you, what's your truth