The Stateline Retreat in Primm, NV

Thank you.

My name is Marie and I am an alcoholic and I'm so grateful to be here and grateful to be sober.

I tried it as a 10th of August 1984. My group is a Markham Village group in Markham, ON and I'm a very, very grateful member of Alcoholics Anonymous. Thank you, Lee.

I'd like to thank Alexis so much. This is the third time she has been my Hostess picking me up. Usually they last about one time

but I she she's wonderful and she would do anything that I asked her to. So thank you very much. I'm basically non demanding and ask my husbands and.

And I would like to thank everybody and anybody who had absolutely anything to do with putting on this wonderful event because it is truly a wonderful event. And you know, it doesn't matter where I go speaking in the world, I always hear about Stateline

and it takes a lot to put in this and a lot of little people out there that you don't see and you don't realize that they're contributing to this. So I would just like to thank you. And I think they deserve a thank you from all of us.

And I'd like to thank Sharon and Ralph for their wonderful talks last night, hearing their stories. Thank you

and to Rick, my Allen on friend, you just are so wonderful. I just identify with you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you and for Lee who gave that wonderful presentation on the history. So I think I've thanked about everybody. I want to thank God and and and Bill and Bob for this wonderful program we've given. You know, when I came up, when I came into Dale Lee had put on Bob Marley, get up, stand up, fight for your rights, you know, and

I used to live in Jamaica and he was one of my, he didn't like me and I didn't like him, but I liked what he did, you know, I liked what he did. And, and, and I've been very much like that since I've been a child. I've always wanted to ask something to believe. And maybe it's my Irish Scottish ancestry, you know, I don't know. But I've had various things that I used to fight for when I was young, you know, at age 14, I was

boycott in South African grapes.

And getting into a lot of trouble. From then I was I was an activist in some other groups. When I was nursing I got in with a group of anti apartheid people who had come over to study from South Africa.

I got very involved with them and got into a lot of trouble and when I was with British Airways I went to South Africa and they wanted me to separate the children in Johannesburg. They wanted me. They've got 2 signs that says Blanca and non Blanca.

And as soon as they got off these kids that I was bringing on the lollipop specials from all the schools in England, as soon as we landed in, in, in, in Johannesburg, they wanted me to separate the kids. And I absolutely refused to do that. I didn't want any part of it. So it's, I've always wanted something, something to believe in and these traditions. I feel this way. I feel that Bill, you know, he calls us benign anarchists. And I truly believe that when Bill formulated these,

owed them the traditions, he absolutely knew what he was doing. When I was an early member of Alcoholics Anonymous and just so grateful to be here. And I had no argument with anything. I had no argument with the steps. I had no argument with the traditions. I had no argument about basically anything I was asked to do in this program until I got a little Weller. But

as regards sponsorship directions, but I never had any any problem with the traditions. And I remember

when they told me at six months I could start to have a position, I asked them if there was such a position as a tradition upholder.

So somebody said to me,

I didn't know, are you the old timers? I used to believe everything they said. The old timer said to me, well we don't have a tradition upholder but we have a a place

and I asked how I could join.

So I basically set up my own and,

and you know, we had a little history today from from Lee, who did a wonderful job. And I've got a little here. And some of the stuff I'm going to be reading from and sharing with you is my own experience with the group and the traditions, but also kind of how we evolved, you know? He spoke about the Washington Post article.

I think it was

after that was published, membership grew from 20 to 80,000.

I mean, that's a lot of people.

And if you can imagine, there was absolutely no rules, no regulations, nothing. All we had is people who started groups and they would impose their own Sarah Rose. And if you did not conform to those rules, you would be expelled from the group. And those rules were overreaching. I mean they went from everything to Irish, non non Irish, non blacks,

non Catholics, all Protestants. A certain way of behaving and dressing.

We had the old boys club

at first. Doctor Bob really didn't want to to have women. You can tell from his haircut he wasn't a 13 stepper and.

I I love Bobby Haircut and

I can imagine his wife doing it till when he was drunk just to get back at him.

So

Headquarters New York started receiving all these letters

about the problems they were having and the 12, the 12 traditions has evolved out of all these problems,

every problem that the river was and that we still can have today. When people want to ignore the traditions, it's all been covered. There is no Ave. you can think of that we can go into it that hasn't been covered by the traditions. Because, you see, Bill was an alcoholic, and Bill knew about the cunning alcoholic mind.

The alcoholic mind is always looking somehow to get it my way.

That ego that keeps resurfacing in all of us

and it can do so much damage to a group.

I do not understand why people want to change Alcoholics Anonymous and there are a lot of movements afloat they would like to change Alcoholics Anonymous

and I don't know why because really, what else have we got? What is the success rate for any other? I mean, look at the Washingtonians. The Washingtonians, 8018 forties, 6 drunks sitting in a bar in Baltimore, MD. They want to stay sober. So they decided they're going to meet and help each other to stay sober. That was it. Stay sober

and in a few years the movement was so big it had gone to well. There's varying arguments about what it went to,

but there's some say it went to almost 600,000 members.

But you see, that's because they didn't have any singleness or purpose. That is that because they get into the fuel's politics, the suffragette movement,

money, they became very interested in money. They became interested in publicity

and the fact was they had no spiritual base. They didn't have a spiritual program

and when you think about it, in few short years there's none of them left.

They were all gone. They were all drunk, hopeless. That was a massive movement,

and when Bill received all these letters, he came to the astonishing conclusion that if all of these membership rules were adhered to, 9/10 of the membership wouldn't be allowed in the rooms when he gathered them all together.

No, there's a lot of Alcoholics in here.

Can you imagine if it was your group

way back in the early days? Just think about how you'd run it

before you've done the 12 steps.

Scary, isn't it?

Because we have that mind that wants to control.

So the idea for the 12 traditions of Alcoholics Anonymous came directly from all the correspondence that was generated after the Washington Post article. And Alcoholics Anonymous was actually breaking apart.

Breaking apart. And that is when that member in 1945, I think CHK from Michigan, he wrote an article about the Washingtonians and it really affected Bill and Bob very, very much.

And they said to work going around and talking to people in the groups. And of course they were not well received

because.

You know, it's my sponsor, Clancy, my beloved sponsor. You know, he used to say that when he was drinking, he'd stand and he'd beat his first. And he said justice, justice for all mankind. And then at the end it was mercy, Mercy, you know, and, and that's what all these members were like, the justice, justice, do it my way. Justice, justice. I want it my way because I started the group.

It's my group

and I'll go the way I want it to go.

And they didn't want rules. They absolutely refused to have rules. So that is why it's not called rules and why it's called traditions. Because I think there's something deep, deep within our motley little hearts. Alcoholics of my type

that that that like the word traditions. I come from an old country. I come from an old country. I was brought up on Celtic daily traditions. I mean, some of them are bizarre in the light of day,

you know, I mean, I mean, I've still got an Ant talks to the fairies, you know, and,

but, but they're entrenched in people. These traditions are entrenched in people. And that's what the word traditions does. The minute you think about it, that brilliant word, it becomes entrenched within you. So it's another stroke of genius,

as was said, I think. I can't remember who said it, but

this bill published them first. He used a Grapevine as his vehicle to publish the traditions, because that way there was nobody shouting at him from groups. You know, they were still asking to come and speak, but they were saying in a little note to him or the phone call, whatever. Come and tell us about where you used to hide the bottles. Come and tell us about your drinking sprees, but don't talk about those damn traditions.

So if he put them out in writing form,

then there would be red. Even if it was to be read

and put aside, they'd be read because Alcoholics, if you're a good alcoholic, you want to be informed about the topic of the day. You just have to go to a business meeting to see that.

So

it was called 12 points to assure our future.

And that's certainly what these traditions have done. They have. Please, God will go on to assure our future.

And, you know, the groups that were really in trouble took them very seriously

because they understood and were afraid. And I think that's what happens to a lot of us. We've become afraid. And that's why you see sometimes, you know, the discordance that you see in groups between people,

the fear and the paranoia that can overcome us when we think about this thing slowly collapsing, the way the Washingtonians and we are fearful people. We are fearful people no matter how long we are sober. At least you know everything I know being around here for 35 years, no matter how long we're sober, no matter you know how old we get,

you know there's a few things that never, ever quite go away. Emotional immaturity, deep sensitivity and fear.

And when I'm in fear about something happening to Alcoholics Anonymous, I will get into my neurosis and then I'll get into my paranoia, and then it becomes my obsession of the mind.

So I'll start doing a little circle of the groups in my area to make sure they're all adherent to the traditions. It's like here she comes. You know,

I

and Bill presented the traditions that

at the a, a convention in Cleveland in 1950, the first one, that's where he that's where he and Doctor Bob was there as well. And I'm so happy that Doctor Bob was alive

to OK these traditions because Can you imagine what would go on if it was just Bill had passed these traditions? Because, you know, a A is more or less even today divided into two camps. You know, you have the acronites, you have the people out there, and then you have the people in New York. And further on, you know, they're both Sonians and the and the Smithsonians,

if you like, and each one thinks that they're

hero is better than the other one. And Doctor Bob died in the November after these were were were published.

So what are the 12 traditions? Well, they are to group survival and harmony

what the 12 steps are to our survival and without them we will surely die.

Because you see, if I don't do the 12 steps and adhere to the 12 steps and keeping good spiritual condition according to the 12 steps, then I will surely die. If I don't physically die, I will certainly die spiritually. But if we don't uphold the 12th traditions, then there'll be nothing left of us.

Tradition 1.

Our common welfare should come first. Personal recovery depends upon a a unity.

What does that really mean is how to best work and live together, because that unity that we feel in the rooms is everything. Have you ever been in a group at a business meeting?

Are a speaker meeting when you've sat in the rooms and you're worried about the unity?

Anybody

show me hands?

That's a lot of people,

and I don't have time to ask you all individually what that particular thing was about, but I hope that as I go on here, I'll cover some of the things that can cause that feeling or let me talk. For me, certainly causing for me and for my sponsors who call me about them.

So it's a principle of humility rather than rebellion.

Again, growing up I used to think that I was a female Braveheart,

you know, and, and I used to even go up to the Highlands where he used to run a ball and I'd run a wrong shot and all the rubbish. I just didn't have any blue paint and,

and I understand this completely, No, I was always a rebel

until alcohol took away everything I had.

When I came in these doors, I had nothing left. I'm talking nothing. There was number. I didn't even have any humanity left when I come in these doors. Nothing.

Barely. I had nothing,

nothing.

My rebellion had been completely taken out of me

by the demon alcohol, as my granny used to call it.

Every facet and part of Maine had been erased,

and I commend here with humility.

I came in here realizing it. For the first time in my life, I could admit

that I knew nothing about living.

Nothing

I thought I knew about love.

But my beloved children were taken away.

So was that love. Everything was gone

when they told me. I just had to be a small part of the great whole.

I was amazed that they'd even want to have me.

You know, I've said it before and I'll say it again, When I came in here,

I was not looking good.

We're in my old sponsee, I said to her once. You know, Carol, a lot of my sponsors are being 13 steps. I was never 13 stepped,

she said. Do you remember what you look like when you come in?

She said You had Jake leg. We used to take you to meetings in a car.

So this group has to survive, or the group has to survive, or the individual not. It's really that simple.

My personal ambitions, no matter what, have to be set aside.

If this thing

is something that I honor and treasure and feel honored to be a part of, then all I'm asked to do is to keep these traditions

and the perspective that I get from sitting in a meeting,

The perspective I get

from being in a group discussion

and from listening to other people. Because I have learned to listen and respect.

That lets me see who I really AM

and that lets me see how much I need a leash,

how much I need a leash.

Because

being the activists that I used to be

and then going to where I was

and two extremes and then coming in these rooms and see what is being offered to me

that our person recovers depends on AA unity. I realized I wanted to be in middle ground. I wanted to be in the middle ground.

I wanted to be able to think about what is best for Alcoholics Anonymous,

not me, one more time. It's not about me, it's about you.

Tradition too,

for our group purpose, there is but one ultimate authority, a loving God as He may express himself in our group conscience. Our leaders are but trusted servants. They do not govern.

I love that. I love that.

The example I have to give you,

I lived in sobriety, I lived in another country, a couple of countries just for a little while.

And one of those there was a guy had set up a meeting in his basement and it was called his first name. So and so is meeting

and I went to this meeting because there wasn't many meetings where I was and and he would always chair the meeting.

He would announce this is

Godzilla's meeting

and he does the same people to read every week.

So

not being in fit spiritual condition, one day

I am.

I went to him and I questioned this

and

I told him, you know, if none of us get to speak and participate, how are we going to deal with our alcoholism?

He said, well, how long are you sober? And I told him, he said, listen, I'm in a medical profession. What you think is alcoholism is just little bits of alcohol still stranded in your psyche.

What

little bits of alcohol still stranded in my psyche.

So we had a little disagreement and

and then he told me he was going up to the states, to this medical conference that was going on and he was going to hear a guy who was coming to speak. And he would bring me back these CDs.

And I used to say to him, why don't you listen to Clancy talking about alcoholism? That guy doesn't know what he's talking about.

He'd never, you know, he didn't want to hear clients. So anyway, he comes back from the medical convention in Florida

and I went to him and I said, so where are the CDs? I'm looking for the CDs. You know, I want to hear what this guy had to say. He said, oh, forget it wasn't any good. The next day I called Clancy. He says. I just got back from Miami, speaking at a medical conference.

Of course I went armed with a few facts,

the wisdom of rotation and democracy.

I joined a Group A few years ago. I had been at one group for many, many, many years. And then I changed and I joined another group. And when I went to that group,

they had a similar setup, although it wasn't called his group, but he would cheer on the meetings and he would pick the people who had to do what they were doing. And I had some of my friends started coming and joined the group. And, you know, we went to the business meeting and, and we sat down and we, we spoke about this,

you know, and, and you know, we spoke about this spirit of rotation and it did not go down well. But eventually,

to be honest with you, they just didn't really know about it. They, they didn't apply it. And a lot of times you will see that that is ignorance too. Now, it might be ignorance that they want to keep and cultivate for their own selfish egos. I don't know. But now that group has changed completely and we're on the spirit of rotation

and, and we know what this reminds me to is that that the child, the child and error has come about knowing that every group has defects. There is no perfect group in the world. We all have defects. And you know, you may have everybody running really well and it's lovely. And then go to the next business meeting and it's a whole different story because someone has gone home and started thinking about things for a bit. And that's, you know, as you know, that's never a good idea because

to get idea Bing and they're up all night thinking about how they'll tell us about this new idea.

And then when you compare it to the tradition, it just it just doesn't permit panel, you know, and I'm not going to be reading you a lot from from from the the 12 traditions are here for you to read. But it's important in tradition too, that you think about Charlie of Charlie Towns. You know, when I was watching the history there, I saw what my hero Bill Wilson went through. He had no money.

He kept having these opportunities to have money and he just kept getting shot down. And thank God he did. And remember to the Charlie Tones offered him a job at Towns Hospital and he thought that would be a great idea, but he took it back to the group to to, you know, a group conscience.

And he said, don't you realise you can never become a professional?

Don't you always say to us that good is the enemy of best?

You have to be the best there can be, Bill.

You see, the group conscious is what keeps us right sized and we listen to it. Well, most of us do. Some of us go find another group

and you know, as Bill put it, it's a matter, as the member said to him, it's a matter of life and death. Bill and his Bill says so spoke the group conscience. The group was right and I was wrong. The voice on the subway was not the voice of God. How often have you thought the voice of God is telling you to do something

and the group conscience

doesn't agree with God?

And that's what he says here. He really believed it was the voice of God telling him to do this and he'd be prepared for professional work in a a what a nightmare that would have been. He said here was a true voice welling up out of my friends, out of my group conscience. I listened and thank God I obeyed. Tradition 3. I don't think there is any tradition more than this one that causes problems and Alcoholics Anonymous.

The only requirement for AA membership is a desire to stop drinking.

That creates a lot of problems and Alcoholics Anonymous.

That is why it's so important when you have a new member come in that you sit down and you talk to the member and make sure that they are in the right fellowship. How many people in here have saw people died because they're in the wrong fellowship?

A lot.

We don't seem to understand that we hold people's lives in our hands here

when we sit down and talk to them.

You know, in a you have, you have two groups. You know, again, you'll have the ones who are the zealots

I've often been accused of being as well, but you have the one who who are the zealots, and then you'll have the other one that are love and tolerance to the extreme.

Bring in anybody. This is for everybody. We can help you. It doesn't matter what your ailment is, we can help you

and that is so damaging to people.

We kill people talking like that.

There is no barrier to any alcoholic wishing to join Alcoholics Anonymous. None,

but

you have to have a desire to stop drinking.

I have even met

Overeaters and Alcoholics Anonymous

who tell me that they come because they have a desire not to drink, because they've never wanted to drink.

Unbelievable. It's unbelievable how this can be manipulated,

Doctor. Well, it was Doctor Bob's group, but Bill gives a great example. He says that about Year 2,

this is about to how we incorporated that we only need desire to drop drinking to stop anybody as welcome. And about year two of the Akam group, A poor devil came to Doctor Bob in a grievous state. He could qualify as an alcoholic all right, but he said, doc, I've got another real problem to tell you. I don't know if I can join a A because I'm also a sexual deviant.

Well, that had to go to the group conscience. You know, Doctor Bob and his haircut. He wasn't really tolerant. No, no.

Probably a little shocked, you know?

Until then, anybody could say what they wanted to about who could join and who couldn't join.

And the group conscience got very heated.

And generally they said that this is a letter that was written in, you know, Bill gave this talk at the General Service Conference in 1968, a talk on the traditions.

Under no circumstances could we have such a card and such a disgrace amongst us, said these gentlemen.

And his bill writes us. Then our destiny hung by a thread. It was on a razor edge over this single case.

Could we exclude this so-called undesirability that obviously was an alcoholic but obviously had what was called back then, another problem which we would not call today. We're talking long ago here.

Who are we considering our record? Who are we as recovering Alcoholics to sit in judgment and exclusion of anybody?

The bunch were sitting in Doctor Bob's living room arguing and

and dear old Doctor Bob looked around and said isn't it time folks to ask ourselves what would the Master do?

Bill states in the 12 and 12 that this fellow plunged into 12 step work and tirelessly carried the message.

Never did he trouble anyone with his other problem.

Thus,

that's a beginning of how this evolved,

people dealing with people, not some highfalutin concept that sat down and thought about to keep us pure.

It's from absolute experiences. Manhattan Group 1945. You know,

people didn't want to let blacks in, didn't want to let gays in, didn't want anybody to come in except the real alcoholic

who usually looked like Doctor Bob.

I love Doctor Bob.

So in the Manhattan group 1945 a man came in needing help. He was black and no black members. He was also an ex convict. All these earthly belongings were on his back. His hair was bleach blonde. He had on makeup and told us he was a dope fiend and an alcoholic.

Someone called Bill. Can you imagine that conversation?

So Belle, the genius of Belle,

asked if he was an alcoholic. Certainly an alcoholic,

so the prospect was invited to attend meetings, but just just to speak about his alcoholism.

Those states that these two examples were the precedent for the third tradition.

That's how it came about. That's basically how tradition three came about.

And

again, I think that today it's so important to sit down. I'll tell you a couple of examples

that I've had that have caught. I've seen young people go to their death because they were in the wrong fellowship. And in fact, one just very recently who was a very young, beautiful man, very dear to my heart.

It breaks my heart.

A desire to stop drinking is comes from a deep place and it comes from a place of suffering. It comes from a place of

drinking, a legal beverage that I can go in and buy in any corner store that I can see anybody going by, anywhere that I can see being served in every public place, on planes, everywhere.

And yet if I drink it, I become crazy

because I've proven it to myself time after time sit and watching drinkers and people say, just have one, OK?

And I end up with them berating me and looking down at me and disgust. And I haven't even had as much as them to drink.

So that feeling of difference that we have is a feeling that all everybody else, they seem to be able to drink this thing that I can't. And there's a great shame in that. And one more time, it sets me about as a separate entity. I cannot have a social drink.

I've never seen anybody have a little social crack,

but it is that difference

that makes me a separate entity.

So tradition,

each group should be autonomous, except in martyrs affecting other groups or a A as a whole.

They're more or less basically is that if my group decides something that's only going to be held within the group and it's not breaking the tradition, it's OK. But if it's going to damage my surrounding groups or if it's going to damage anything else in Alcoholics Anonymous, I had to, I have to go and see about it. We had an example. You probably heard about it.

This affected, and it was one of the oldest groups in, in Alcoholics Anonymous decided they were going to become an atheist group

and they started putting up signs, et cetera, et cetera, atheists and taken down the steps and traditions and intergroup went all around our groups. And we decided that we were going to delist them from the meeting book because they weren't adhering to to to our traditions, et cetera.

And they were taken out in the meeting book and they took us to human rights.

Yeah. And it was OK for them to take us to court on religious discrimination.

And our New York had to come up and eventually we had to settle that case. And they just can't print their own formulation of the steps that caused a lot of disunity.

Bill gives the example of Middletown, a group there. They were all hottest firecrackers about it, stargazing. The elders dreamed of innovations. They figured the tone needed a great big alcoholic centre

beginning on the ground floor. Can you imagine it would just rise to these massive heights?

And there was a promoter in the deal, a super promoter.

And by his eloquence he laid all fears.

And if they formulated 61 rules

to ensure foolproof continuous operation, 61 rules and regulations were adopted.

Confusion replaced serenity.

They want some young drunks yearn for education, doubted if they were Alcoholics. Personality defects of other could be cured with a loan.

A little wonder what happened, The head promoter wrote the foundation office. Then he did something else that was to become an A A classic because the group was dropping apart.

It went on a little card, golf score size, the cover read Middleton group number one, Rule 62. Once the card was unfolding, a single pungent sentence leaped to the eye. Don't take yourself too seriously. And that's where Rule 62

right tradition thrive. Each group has but one primary purpose, to carry his message to the alcoholic who still suffers.

It is limited.

That's why Bill starts this with the old assay Shoemaker. Stick to thy last. Better to do one thing well than many badly.

The only thing I know about is alcohol.

I don't know about anything else. I am very limited in what I can do. I know my limitations. I now know my limitations before I accept being a sponsor because I don't want to hurt anybody I want. I ask God every night. May I only ever be helpful and never hurtful.

I know my limitations. Today

it says here

better to do one thing well than many badly. This is a central theme of the tradition around our society gathers in unity. The very life, the very life of our fellowship, requires the preservation of this principle.

That is a definitive statement from Bill,

the very life of our fellowship.

And he goes on to talk about singleness of purpose. And he also goes on to say,

adherent to our singleness of purpose is a sacred trust. Sacred trust? Where else have you seen him use that?

It is a sacred trust I have to keep

no matter how much I would want to deviate from it.

And you know, if you want to read about singleness of purpose and what the reasons for it being to, there's a wonderful pamphlet that Bill wrote, Problem Problems Other than Alcohol

and under in there, he said there is no way to make a non alcoholic addict into an AA member. In my group we have lots of dual addicts, wonderful young people,

wonderful young people who have suffered horrendously from JULL addiction. They never talk about the royal addiction. They go to NA or CA. They may mention from the programme that they also had a trouble with outside issues, but they go elsewhere and they're wonderful, stalwart members of Alcoholics Anonymous now. There was a young fellow.

How many? How many? His wife joined a A at the same time she was alcoholic.

He said he was alcoholic because the treatment centre told him to say he was alcoholic

but he wasn't. He never drank alcohol.

He was a cocaine addict, never had any desire to drink alcohol, never wanted to drink alcohol

and they both got a year medallion. They got married and then they had a beautiful little baby

and the day of that baby's christening,

his wife phoned him in the bathroom with his wrists slashed.

He had been NNO NN no, NN no. After that one year,

he had conveyed to some of us that he was not an alcoholic, but that he did not like California,

and he had been encouraged by some

to just stay in a

So you see, he did not get the identification that makes us feel all right. He did not get what he needed, and we killed him. That's how I look on it. We killed him

by making people stay here

that can't identify because that's all we have.

When I listen to the speakers I have identification.

I don't have any other degrees,

Bill says. Tradition 5.

It has now become plain enough that only I recovered. Alcohol can do much for a sick alcoholic and it's a tremendous responsibility,

an obligation so great

that amongst your secret trust

for to our counter suffer alcoholism. Recovery is a matter of life and death,

so the Society of Alcoholics Anonymous cannot it dare not ever be diverted from its primary purpose.

That is the sacred trust that we have been given,

and we do not do it to be mean,

we do it to survive.

We had a Clue's meeting the other day and a little gal came. Her father was an alcoholic and she was a drug addict. And it was a close meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous. And when we go around the room to identify, she said that she's an addict. So we asked her if she had a desire to stop drinking and she said she didn't drink.

No. Normally in that case we will take them outside and talk to them and somebody will arrange to meet them the next day and take them to a meeting. While she had two years

actually in another fellowship, but she said she had come to support her father.

So we had to ask her to leave because it's a closed meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous

and it could have been handled very, very badly. And I have seen where it's been handled badly.

And of course, some people said, well, why don't we change the format of the meeting so we can stay?

But some people there were in dire need of a close meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous. We had to put the good of the group

ahead of this, this gal who had just come to be with her father.

If it was an individual choice,

what would you do? Thank God for the group conscience.

As Bill said,

if we don't stick to these principles we shall almost surely collapse. And if we collapse, we cannot help anyone. Therefore, I see no way of making non alcoholic addicts into a A members

experiences loudly that we admit no exception. If we persist in trying this, I'm afraid it will be hard on the drug user himself.

Think about that. It will be hard on the drug user himself. We must accept the fact that no non-alcoholic whatever is affliction can be converted into an alcoholic a a member

to finish within the language of the heart, which I love because it's that most of those essays in there

reflect that we shall never be our best except when we hew only to the primary spiritual principle principle of Alcoholics Anonymous,

that of carrying the message to the alcoholic who still suffers and

prudently cleave prudently cleave to its singleness of purpose. Tradition 6 an A a group what never endorsed finance or lend the ANM to any related facility or outside enterprise. Less problems of money, property and prestige divert us from our primary purpose.

Many examples of that.

That group I told you about that I joined for a long time, they had been given money on behalf of our group in the name of our group to a place for street people downtown. This is a contribution from so and so group

immediately creating an affiliation and not only that, but using step 7 money

for an outside issue.

Um,

there's been many examples I've seen in my group,

for example, Christmas presents, chicken Christmas presents from our group down to the Salvation Army in the name of our group. These are all very, very worthy enterprises, but they can't continue because we have, because then we'll be affiliated.

And the last thing that came up was that every year, apart from paying the rent, they decided to give a big donation to the church.

Sounds very nice,

doesn't it?

That's not what we're about here. You want to divvy up your money, then send it to New York or send it to Intergroup. But, you know, not the church.

All these arguments that came up

about endorsing finance and lending the A, a name

and the early days, that was a big problem because everybody wanted to jump on the AA bandwagon.

Everybody

there was, even liquor companies wanted to jump on the A a bandwagon.

But you know, Bill writes here and here too,

we have a a did dream those dreams because most Alcoholics are bankrupt idealists.