The chapter Doctor's Opinion at West End Big Book Awakening meeting in St. Paul, MN

Good morning, Carrie. Alcoholic.

Hi there. I'm Kate. I'm an alcoholic. We are here from the Big Book Awakening, St. Pauls West End Club. Saturday morning woman's big book study. Thanks so much for listening today. As a big book study, the goal of this recording is to increase our collective knowledge of the book Alcoholics Anonymous by sharing with each other. Let's start by reintroducing ourselves again. Kari

Kari, alcoholic and two years sober.

My sobriety day is April 9th, 2016. I have a sponsor Who has a sponsor? Thank you, Kari. And I'm I'm Kate. I'm an alcoholic. My sober date is February 18th, 2016. And I have a sponsor and my sponsor has a sponsor. And we're here today to talk about the doctor's opinion. And Kari has done some great research on some of the history and she's going to kick off our section today. Thanks, Carrie.

Yeah, so I love this book. First of all, love, love, love the big book. And I'm really grateful for Bill W and Doctor Silkworth for kind of creating the cornerstone of our recovery as we have it today.

Previously, Alcoholics were suggested to insane asylums and belladonna treatment, which was a horrible, horrible way of treating alcoholism.

Insisted of goal nightshade, deadly nightshade. It was like hallucinogenic. It didn't really address the crux of what alcoholism really is. So Doctor Silkworth, I was like, well, who is this Doctor Silkworth anyway? And what I found out about Doctor Silkworth is that he graduated from Princeton and he did. He got his medical degree at

the NYU

Bellevue and he went to do his internship at Bellevue in the inebriate ward. So that's how he first kind of started his medical profession was working with Alcoholics. Like right away

he worked with a doctor Lambert and also this Carl Town at Bellevue. And why I thought that was interesting is because Carl Town in 1901 would later start Towns Hospital

which was specifically created I believe or started to help Alcoholics

again using the belladonna treatment which was a recipe that Town created. So

and Doctor Sokoth would eventually end up working at Towns Hospital where he met Bill W

Doctor Sophorus's previously to meeting Bill of dedicated a lot of his career to treating Alcoholics. He had it was the writing say about a 2% success rate at the time

lifetime of his career, he treated over 40,000 Alcoholics. And

yeah, so I just the meeting of Doctor Silkworms and Bill W though was kind of like the very cosmic bang that happened that started our program of solid recovery and the disease of alcoholism, learning about the disease.

Cool. Thanks, Hari. So as we get into the Doctor's opinions on

pages XXV, XX, VI, I love these Roman numeral.

I think the thing that really stands out to me is the evaluation of this being not only a physical problem, but a mental problem. And that the mental problem, of course, a lot of people thought it was a mental problem, that it was a character flaw, that it was

something about being abnormal of mind. But really the physical part of this comes through in the doctor's opinion here. And if we look on, on page XXV, I, I,

umm, the moral psychology that is referred to

there that is so important. It's it's really about spirituality And what I like most about this in the doctor's opinion, I I can personally relate and I'm grateful to have had a Doctor Who before I finally walked into the doors of a A suggested to me that maybe I try a A.

When I finally was clear and and honest with her and shared how much I was drinking and how I was trying to manage it, she said to me,

have you tried a, a, have you talked to other people? And so even though it was months until I actually did that,

I'm grateful that my doctor recognized the spirituality, the moral psychology of it that lies outside of her synthetic knowledge and empirical evidence of, of science. And

I think for a lot of people, we, when we come into a a, we don't want to have to look at all of these things inside ourselves that that really makes up that moral psychology of this problem.

And but that's, that's the solution really. And we'll get into that a little bit more in the doctor's opinion here.

So, but, but further down, as Doctor Silkworth is talking about some of the transformations he's seen in Alcoholics who've been following the Alcoholics Anonymous program on the bottom of XXB I I there's a, there's a bit of a paragraph there that says the unselfishness of these men as we have come to know them, the entire absent of absence of profit motive and their community spirit is indeed inspiring to one

labored long and warily in this alcoholic field. They believe in themselves and still more in the power which pulls chronic Alcoholics back from the gates of death. And to me, that's really about how we in a A behave and how we can be active members of a A. It's this community spirit and working together. And the belief in this power that is, is really beyond us, that is different from the physical.

And that is hard for a doctor to really put his finger on, except that he sees this working, right.

Um, so just wanted to, to bring up that spirituality and being a good active member of AA. Thanks, Kate. Yeah. And that was part of what differentiated Dr. Silk was from other doctors is that he did believe that it was a three component. It was a disease, obsession and allergy in a spiritual solution or. There's three parts to alcoholism.

He While most doctors viewed Alcoholics as maladjusted

as week of Will Silkworth recognized that no, we had a disease, an allergy of the body in an obsession of the mind and with with an alcoholic that it was important to never drink again and real. In the book you don't see the word never there mentioned ever, except for in the doctor's opinion where he states that an alcoholic can never drink again.

So abstinence was one of the key parts

to recovering from alcoholism,

he said. It was paramount or supreme importance that we do not drink

what the doctor did. He gave Bill hope that

that there was a cure, not a cure for alcoholism, but that there was a way of recovery. And

so

that was kind of gave Bill a springboard to go out and spread the message to other Alcoholics. So getting back to the allergy, it was, it's an allergy that once we start drinking the the it's an allergy is an abnormal reaction to normal substances. And there are people who say like allergies, like they compare it to allergies to strawberries and allergies could not serve whatever,

but

umm, so the allergy. I'm losing my tray.

Oh man, it's it's hard to keep all of this straight. I mean, there's so much information in here and

what, what really that allergy is is if I look at the bottom of page XXV, I, I, which I believe means 28

the, the sensation that

we can't differentiate true from false anymore. And I know that was true in my life for sure, because when I was drinking, I thought I knew everything in the world and I thought I was the authority on many, many, many topics and I couldn't possibly be wrong. And it, it was everyone else's fault, right? This it says here to them the only their alcoholic life seems the only normal one.

Absolutely. I thought everyone else was loony and crazy and I was totally normal, right?

And it's nice that a doctor can actually see these, these psychological issues as a symptom of this physical problem, the symptom of being restless, irritable, and discontented all the time. And even in my sobriety, I can sense that again at times, if I'm not strong in my program, absolutely I get restless, irritable and discontented.

But now, instead of reaching for a few drinks, I reach for my higher power. And that's the difference this program makes, is that it gives us new tools to deal with

being restless, irritable and discontented. We don't have to

rely just on our own powers

to to keep us knowing true from false. We can rely on our higher power to help us say, you know what, you, Kate, are losing the path and you're wrong. Just admit it and move on, right. So my life when I was drinking, you know, if you look at the top of page 29 in the doctor's opinion, there's this cycle that I just see here

that after they've succumbed to the desire to drink again,

phenomenon of craving develops and they pass through the well known stages of a spree emerging remorseful with firm resolution not to drink again. And this is repeated over and over. Unless the person can experience an entire psychic change, there is little hope for recovery. And so this cycle of spree remorse and resolution, I don't know, it exhausts me to think about how many times I went through that cycle in any 24 hour period in, in my life prior to sobriety that,

umm, I would wake up firmly resolved never to drink again with all the remorse and shame in the world. And then by 4:00 PM think, hey, I made it through Tuesday, it's time for a cocktail. So yeah. And it, it, Doctor Silkworth goes on and talks then about a few simple rules. And I'll tell you what, I know Kari's going to talk a little bit more about this, but

they're simple, but they're not easy. But when we do them, we can, we can figure things out better.

Yeah. So

yeah, obviously the first rule is complete abstinence

from drinking. And what happens with the when you take that first drink, the obsession to drink just starts. It just hits the allergy of the body, it becomes uncontrollable. The we just want more and more and more and

so and then what Kate said. The psychic change must take place.

Silk Worth really understood that while the other doctors were condemning

his work with Alcoholics. He's like, let's see if you let you stand on the firing line and see how this disease is affecting people, their families, these men, these women,

you know, they really, they deserve this help. And so he was just really dedicated. He dedicated his career to doing so. He it was interesting because you know, Bill when he had his white light experience in towns hospital

and and he went to Doctor Silkworth and was like, whoa, am I crazy? This is what happened. And Doctor Silkers was like, no, he goes, you still still seem to be of sound mind and whatever happened, hang on to it. And Bill went out to like conquer the world with this. You know, I had this white light experience. All of you need to have this. And if you don't, you'll never stay sober again.

And he wasn't having much success, so it was suggested to him

to go back to Doctor Silkworth to have the doctor's opinion put into the big book so that Alcoholics could see. Wow. OK, so there really is medical

backing to this alcohol problem that we suffer. It was important to Doctor Silkworth to call it the doctor's opinion because it wasn't based on fact. And the only real facts in the book or in his opinion that he could recognize

was that he did see men recover from alcoholism, from spreading the word and how I'm helping other Alcoholics, helping other Alcoholics. Those are the only facts that he could see is that it was working. But as far as the medical piece, it was just his opinion.

So yeah,

OK, great. Well, the next part in the book on page 30, Carrie and I talked a lot about this,

about the different descriptions or classifications of Alcoholics. And we're we're not going to go into great depth here. I think a lot of people can see themselves in different pieces here. When I first got sober, I thought I was the completely normal person, except in every respect that affect the effect that alcohol has upon me, that I was able, intelligent, friendly. But this just shows you in my early sobriety when an egomaniac, I still was. Because now as I look back

with to your sobriety, I'm like, yeah, I'm a psychopath. Yeah. If I was overly remorseful. Yep. I made many relutions, resolutions and never a decision. I was unwilling to admit I had problems. I was manic depressive. Yep. I see all of this in myself now. But at first I thought, oh, I'm totally normal. I just, you know, I have a problem with drinking, you know, now and then,

um, someone described to me that

when the word psychopath is in here on the top of page 30, that's kind of a strong word. But they explain that, you know, the cycle like we were just talking about a little earlier of spree remorse resolution. That entire cycle is like, you get this resolution and it's kind of step one, but when you go back into the spree again, it's you can't get into Step 2 or step three. You can't, you can't really admit that a power greater than yourself could restore you to sanity

and you cannot make the decision to turn your life and your will over to the care of God as we understand him. And that really it's being stuck in that step one of admitting your powerless. Because I think that's really for me, what my resolution would be is I'm powerless. But you know what?

My ego somehow is going to control this myself. Will will control this. So it's this kind of a partial step one, but definitely not getting into steps 2:00 and 3:00.

And you know, I think that there's a lot of debate around these things and that comes up at the, the bottom of page 30 as well. But we, we need the spiritual solution. Otherwise otherwise we're doomed. Kari, did you have more to say on that topic around? I know we talked a lot about those different types.

Yeah, there's basically five different types of Alcoholics. The emotionally unstable.

The second, unwilling to admit that he cannot take a drink. He plans various ways of drinking or he changes his brand or environment. 3. There's a type who always believes that after being entirely free from alcohol for a period of time, he cannot drink without danger. The manic depressive type is 4. And then five. Entirely normal in every respect, like you touched on. Oh yeah, totally. Yeah. And the psychopath

are just people.

What I was when I was explained to the psychopath is just people who just won't admit, like just downright refuse to quit drinking. And there's certainly a lot of those out there too. I mean, it's like, and they pay the supreme sacrifice, which is usually suicide, some kind of death. So

yeah, so forth. Just wanted, you know, made it very clear that there are just different, these different types.

I think that, you know, he through his work with alcoholism and Alcoholics throughout his career, I think he has such a passion for us. He saw the worth and light in the alcoholic and I think he was extremely baffled by a lot of this disease, the alcoholic. That's why the disease and the obsession and the allergy

became paramount in his treatment or his the way he viewed Alcoholics and alcoholism.

He had a psychiatric background. He worked in a psychiatric hospital. So I think that he used that to kind of influence his analysis of the person of the alcoholic. But I'm sure that, you know, for me, I feel like Bill was like a kind of a beacon of hope for him too, that he saw these hopeless cases

and was so frustrated there was no medical cure because if they had a medical cure, they would have a scientific cure. They would have definitely come up with it. They were towns. Hospital was for extremely well, the extremely wealthy,

so they had resources available to them, but nothing seemed to have worked except for bills carrying the message to another alcoholic. So I'm sure that really instilled a great relief and hope for doctors so forth as well. So yeah, that's really that on page 31. So what is the solution? And and that's where Doctor Silkworth talks about

the experiences he's seen with people who followed the Simple,

the simple principles of this book and the 12 steps. So he talks on page 31 about a couple of different.

Very hopeless situations and how they turned around by taking this, learning this message, applying it in their lives and then taking it to other people. And you know, he even says in here when he needs a mental uplift, he thinks of these cases. And I think that's really true in my life too. When I need a mental uplift, I start working with other people and I stop focusing on myself. And all of a sudden

I'm able to help someone or I learn from someone and they help me. And my, my spirit is definitely uplifted. And you know, I think a lot of the time

outside of recovery spaces, people, people provide others with a lot of judgment and feedback on things. And I think that can be useful in in some cases. But for me now I don't, My sponsor can give me feedback

and advice, but really what, what I mostly need is learning by example from other people and sharing my example with other people. And, you know, the empirical evidence is that that really works. But trying to diagnose exactly how that works is very difficult for for a doctor. But we're really a scientist. But we're really lucky that Doctor Silkworth was open to this and supported this because it landed a lot of credibility

to Alcoholics Anonymous and the 12 steps as a solution to finding your freedom and being able to make make real choices in life instead of the alcohol making the choice for you. Yeah. And that's what, yeah, when he talks about the gentleman who had self-reliance,

I think that's what he was talking about. The self-reliance wasn't that he was doing this with the absence of a higher power or the group or whatever. The self-reliance if you no longer had to rely on alcohol

anymore. So that provide him a new freedom.

Yeah. So, yeah, basically I'm just really grateful for Doctor Silkworth and and Bill W for creating this plan of action for us that was meaningful. And it is a lot of work, but it makes so much sense when we can think about the disease concept, the allergy of the OR the obsession of the mind,

the allergy of the body.

And the only real solution that I can see after reading this doctor's opinion and knowing the story, both story and the further we go into the book, is that complete accident is key. And but there is a solution in that that, you know, we do have the fellowship and our higher power to keep us sober.

I think with that, I don't have anything else. All right, well, thanks, Kari, and I'm Kate and I pass. Thank you. I passed you. Thank.