History workshop at the Gopher state roundup in Minneapolis, MN

Jay. Alcoholic.

A lot of freaks.

Yeah, well,

I'm best described in the book Alcoholics Anonymous as a strange chap with a queer idea of fun.

And

so I was born with this love of history, and I have no idea why, but I've been created to be able to inflict it upon others. So this is what we're going to be doing. We're going to be talking about spiritualism,

mysticism and A as Co founders. Now

I get to talk all over the planet about all kinds of really cool stuff. And people come up to me and they go, Jay, what's the secret stuff I'm supposed to read so that I know exactly what they were doing when and how and how is it that I can get just a leg up on my fellows?

There's a little spiritual competition in Alcoholics Anonymous. Well, that's right. It doesn't happen in, in Minnesota. I I got that.

I got that. But anyway, so

these two people,

Bob Smith, Bill Wilson,

were incredibly courageous visionaries. And the reason that they were courageous visionaries is that 88 years ago something happened that hadn't happened before.

Now, in our fifth tradition, it says that every AA group is a spiritual entity.

So let's just kind of ramp this thing up and let's get it cooking a little bit. And if you just be kind enough to close your eyes for a moment,

let's take a deep breath.

Blow it out.

And if you can think of your family lineage

and if you can go back, maybe you were fortunate enough to have actually met your great grandparents

88 years ago when they were flitting around the planet.

Alcoholism and drug addiction was a death sentence

and then something happened

and it's touched each and everyone of our lives and our families lives and our communities.

So let's just take one minute

and revel

in what this gift has done in your heart.

Thank you.

So you know how it is when you're getting together with your friends, you're talking at the coffee shop after the meeting, taking the speaker's inventory.

How can he possibly not drink and think about things like that?

And, and,

and the way that you talk and the way that you act is much different than when you're at the podium or maybe when you're called on to participate in the meeting. And I've had the very, very deep privilege of being able to read the private letters. Bill W, Bob Smith, and to really have a different type of relationship that many folks get to have. And it's kind of being with them when they're at coffee.

They're not being guarded in the way that they're talking. They're not founders of Alcoholics Anonymous. They're just interested, engaged and involved people. And the way that these people were involved and engaged is absolutely incredible. Now, today, when I started out doing history, I came to you on the second day of May in 1979. And although I found it necessary on a lot of occasions, I haven't taken the front drinks, sniffed

glue, or done any of those other things that I found to be so consoling. And when I

clapping for a sober drunks like clapping for a frog, not hopping, you know, and

I'm glad it's a vertebrate honey anyway. And the bill that I'm going to be talking to you about that I have a really special relationship nowadays with is, is not the early Bill W that most people are familiar with. It's really between like 1955 and 1969 that I'm going to be talking about Bill.

Now Bob, on the other hand,

we don't know much about Bob. And what about Bob?

Well #1 the guy's a proctologist

that shakes.

There are those who say that the person who gave the most for the founding of Alcoholics Anonymous was the person Bob operated on the day after Mother's Day.

But Bob was an interesting cat. He was.

Why don't we know much about him? Well, number one, he lived in Akron.

Number two, he was a stoic. And what a stoic is, is it somebody that doesn't verbalize truth until they really think they know it?

So Stoics don't talk very much at all.

For example,

many of you had the good pleasure, I'm sure, that he was here, of hearing Smitty, Doctor Bob's son. And Smitty loved to tell this story about his dad and what a great communicator his dad was. Smitty was about 16 years old and it was time for the sex lecture. Yes,

Dad is a doctor. I'm going to learn it all. I'm going to be able to inflict it on others. It's going to be a wonderful life. So he takes the old. The old man takes him upstairs, sits him down on the bed and says, son, flies spread disease.

Keep yours closed.

I mean, if you take a look at Bob, I mean he waited 17 years to ask and to marry him.

That's what I thought,

you know, I mean, do you think this guy just was a little buttoned down? So anyway, this,

This is why there isn't all this stuff. And he didn't have a secretary and he didn't have the, and he was not interested. Bill, on the other hand, was in New York City, you know, the, the whole movement grew up around him and he was the point of contact for the movement as it evolved. So

what is Spiritualism?

Spiritualism is a belief based on supposed communication with spirits of the dead, especially through mediums,

and as a philosophy, it is the doctrine that spirit exists distinct from matter,

and that spirit is the only reality.

Now I know that there are a few folks that are flitting around that second definition on occasion.

And it's interesting that in the dictionary it says supposed communication

because there are lots of people that have had it. And one of the things that I really want to ask you to do for the next 35 minutes or so. And then hopefully I'll at some point I'll stop because I've got all kinds of really cool stuff. But I'm very interested in if folks have got a couple of questions that we may get a little Q&A going to because I'm always

fascinated to hear what it is that people are are interested in. But this is how these people live.

This is what they believed.

You can question the nature of the transformation of a person,

the nature of them having a change of mind and heart or having things

that they believe that are important,

but you can't, you can't question the fact that it actually happened

and it happened to these guys.

Now what's mysticism?

Look,

the Mystic seeks by contemplation and self surrender to obtain unity

with or absorption into the Deity or the Absolute. Or who believes in the spiritual apprehension of truths that are beyond the mind?

Our friend Carl Jung,

when he was talking to Bill about

the solution to alcoholism, he said that it either comes by grace

or honest contact with friends. And I believe that what the committee creates here is a weekend full of honest contact with friends. Or the 3rd way is by education of the mind beyond the confines of mere rationalism.

And so we're going to take a little trip beyond the confines of mere rationalism.

So William James

said that while the revelations of the Mystic hold true, they only hold true for the Mystic. This is a picture of James on the way to a rave.

Boys got some chops, doesn't he?

Anyway, that that So one of the fabulous things about Alcoholics Anonymous, we have these Mystics, especially Bill W

and he had mystical experiences,

as many of us have experiences, not just one,

but that we don't take his experience literally.

We have to go and get our own,

and we are very, very fortunate that what we have is we have a recipe, a mystical recipe for change.

Now, in a letter that Bill wrote to our friend Mel B, he said that little by little, I think we shall strip away the mystery from mysticism.

Indeed, the Mystic experience, so-called, is the essence of an AAS transformation, whether he believes it knows it or not.

So each of us are really led on a journey that is completely different than what most folks got. You know, we talk about normal people. Do you know any?

I mean, in the postmodern era, it's just such an odd concept. A normal person. I mean, who would, who would want to be one? I mean, God created Sedona for people like me to end up in.

I like to say that there we live in the 5th dimension and we visit the 4th and we ain't going to apologize to any of you tourists.

So here's a great here's conga Doctor Bob. Isn't that a great shot of him?

Now I have to tell you that I am living an amends to the Fellowship and it's an odd thing. One of the things about being a historian is, is that you learn stuff

and you go and you inflict it on others. And then later on you learn more stuff

and you find out that what you were saying a few years earlier was wrong

and then you're in public again.

So one of the things that that I have this amends to make is that I allowed one of my colleagues

to really run with the Akron stuff when I started doing

history work. And

the person had an agenda. And the agenda was that he had been shamed in an AA meeting for using the J word, not J word, but Jesus. And he was talking about his own Christian faith and people shamed him and, and told him that he couldn't do it this and that. Another thing, and this guy was a lawyer and he went out and he started writing briefs on

the roots of Alcoholics Anonymous,

but it was with an agenda and it was to prove that there was a Christian basis for Alcoholics Anonymous. Good. But

that was only a piece of what it was that Bob was. And yet, because I didn't do the work at the time, because this guy's got Akron covered, I'm off doing Frank Bookman and some some some stuff about Bill W.

I did not stand up for the fact that Bill or that Doctor Bob was a great student of all different types of spiritual seeking. And not only did he personally engage in this, but he encouraged others to.

And so that's just a little part of my public amends to say that I'm, I'm, I'm working on this and I'll be sharing some some really cool stuff that I found out about Bob after I got around going back to Akron.

So one of the, there aren't a lot of things that we know about Bob, but I was, I was talking at a conference once and somebody said,

did Doctor Bob ever do a fifth step? There's nothing in the literature about it. There was nothing in the letters that I could find about it. But later on I ran across a talk that Bill gave at Founders Day. And so I, I just love this because it kind of gives us a, a sense of Doctor Bob that, that I think is, that's really helpful.

So we took him upstairs. This is after he's gotten wasted out in an Atlantic City. He's come back now. One of the other thing is that Bob had, he was basically a chicken and you can put whatever adjective you want behind it. He used to go hide in the men's club in Akron for like 3 or 4 days and drink so that his and women couldn't get any information.

Isn't that interesting? Can you imagine?

And they'd call up and they would and, and he'd, he'd stay there and drink. Anyway, he he comes back from Atlantic City and he gets off a stop early from his home stop and he calls the nurse that works for him because she wants him to call Ann and make sure she won't yell at him for coming home wasted.

I mean come on dude, get a little spine. But anyway,

so they say, OK, Bob, you can come home. We're not going to yell. So they bring him home and they get him upstairs, OK. And he says, Bob says, this is awful. I started a certain operation on a patient and I've got to finish it. And the day of the operation shouldn't be postponed. It's only three days away.

How can I ever do this? Well, Bill, says Bob, I've tried the home tapering job on drunks. I'd be willing to try it on you, although I have to warn you that I've usually tapered them off instead of on. So if you really want to cooperate, we'll see what we can do.

On the 3rd morning he was lying on the single bed opposite daylight was coming in and I remember how he looked across at me with a some kind of hope in his eye, in spite of all the pain, in spite of all the change. And he made a statement.

Bob was a man of few words, but he, what he said counted. And here was his statement. I'm going to go through with this thing, God willing.

And I suppose he meant this operation we were getting him puckered up for.

They were giving him alcohol, sauerkraut, stewed tomatoes and barbiturates.

How does that sound for a nutritious breakfast?

He said. No, I'm, I'm really going to go through with the kind of thing we've been talking about. I've hit bottom, all right, but that's only a starter. I'm a guy who would never make a full revelation about myself to any human being.

I'm one of those damn Yankees who bottle things up and hang on and can't let go. So I'm going to get a house cleaning and you're going to hear it.

And Bill says

you can't shock me. Fire away,

but postpone. Excuse me?

So, he said. I'm a guy who felt the stigma, Bob says. I felt I'm a guy who felt the stigma of this in this town. And though everybody in town knew I was a source by use of sedatives, I got through the business by day and drank by night,

and every once in a while, a trip to a sanitarium.

I mean, wouldn't you want your rectal surgeon on barbiturates?

Great for the practice.

I'm a tough old bird and I've just been going on for years and never really faced up to the people that I've heard.

And I think there's this has been going a,

this is where the catches are in my picture. That's why I got drunk in Atlantic City. Well, we had such a conversation. He told me his truth and then we got him back down to the business of the operation. Well, the old boy was shaking.

Annie and I held the council and we decided we tapered the guy off just a little too far. So on the way to the hospital I gave him a bottle of ale and I dropped a goofball in it.

For those of you in depth historians, goofball, barbiturate, second all or for you modern people. And 2nd on Junaung everything Dong.

So then at the very end, we took on the very delicate job of tapering up him up just enough so he could carve on the corpse.

That's what I love it.

There's a in brackets it says laughter because it's taken from. It's taken from a

recorded talk and we took him down to the City Hospital up there and we watched him walk in under his own steam.

Now, one of the great things about this fellowship that we are, we are heir to is that,

you know, think about what's the founding day of Alcoholics Anonymous.

You know, we could say it could be when Jung got together with Roland Hazard,

or maybe when Hazard got together with Ebby,

or maybe when Ebby carried the message to Bob.

But it's none of those.

It's not the day of Bills white light experience.

It's the day that Bob. It's not the day that Bill and Bob met,

it's the day that Bob, after having that nutritious breakfast

and went out and made his amends.

And I believe that the 9th step is what the difference is between Alcoholics Anonymous and any other spiritual path.

This is the path where we don't say, oh, don't do that again, ever. Don't do that. This is the path where we say, no, you have to go and make that right. And there is no other path where it is demonstrated as well as a a. And that's where the miracle happened. Bob never drank again.

Now, with all we know and all we've experienced in these years, what would you do if you gave your sponsee a bottle veil and dropped a barbiturate in it so they could get through work? Maybe they had a special vehicle they wanted to sell. And, and, and then he doesn't come home. Bob doesn't come home after the operation. Bill starts packing and he's crying. He's not there.

He comes back about 9:00 at night. Can you imagine

the pre alanon them both kind of going at them? Like

where have you been? You know, we were worried.

Think of us.

You can't tell that I'm a regular member of the Al Anon Family Groups, can you?

Deeply grateful member. Anyway, so and and Bob and his fashion said you were I was out mending fences. That's it, That's it.

And he ended up going around and looking everybody in the eye who's trustee violated and doing his best to make it right. So this is the foundation of our movement,

not the white light.

It's the action. Just an opinion. It's a good one, and it should be yours.

This is Doctor Bob's daughter, Sue Whoop,

and let's see if we can go back here.

Come on, Sherman, we'll get the Wayback Machine going.

Oh, OK.

Come on, come on, come on.

You got a lot of ketchup with my mind.

Sorry about this. Anyway, Sue.

Sue talks about her dad's engagement and spiritualism. And by the way, all this stuff is hidden from all of us in plain sight. It's in conference approved literature. So if you want to know some of this stuff about Bob and the like, all you have to do is go buy a copy at Doctor Bob and the good old timers, you know. And, and it's really, it's really lovely. And the same with passing on all this stuff that I'm talking about is right there

and but people just skip over it or they go just weird, quick, turn the page. We don't want to know anything about that.

But anyway, so

Sue's watching all this stuff go on at the house, and

Dad started to get some heat because he was having small group meetings with a friend called by the name of Roland J, who was one of the really fascinating characters in the history of Alcoholics Anonymous.

And they would go over to Roland's on Sundays and Roland had called the Spooks in and, and they'd have seances and they'd have all kinds of fun stuff going on. And but Sue said that folks were against the spiritualist thing because everybody wasn't invited.

Now here's Smitty talking about his dad. One of the things Smitty said is that his dad

suggested that they go to every spirit, every church, every Ma, everything that there was

and Akron to try stuff out. He wanted the kids to have a broad

exposure to spirituality. And, and then also he shared, you know, what it was that he was finding on his path. And one of it was that he was really interested in people who claim to have ESP and other forms of spiritual insight. He said that that he believed that it wouldn't be too long until the science of the mind would be such

that we would be able to have contact with people on the other side.

Anybody in here had an NDE near death experience? OK,

so you know, when we talk about the other side, it's not like it isn't something that's proven, but we're just acting like we don't have the information yet.

OK, so

so there's this guy, Roland J, and he was an incredibly

deep, mystical searcher. I studied a lot of different religions. And he can't stop drinking. And he meets Bob and he's able to stop drinking. But he has some real talents. He could make creeks change direction.

He could make

trees bloom in the winter.

He used to do things like on Sunday afternoon they'd be having coffee and reading the Sunday paper on the porch and he'd like make beards appear on Bob and Anne

and everybody could see him.

And so anyway, here's this fascinating character. There's a woman by the name of Virginia M early member in a A in Akron. She's got a little daughter. Daughter has awful, awful problems. They're trying to figure out what it is that they can do for the child. They really don't know. So they schedule an operation up in Cleveland and they're going to take her up and she goes to Bob and she's just beside herself. And she goes, I just,

I, I just don't know what to do. It's, it's this is horrible. And

Bob says, have you ever considered spiritual healing?

She went no.

And he said, well, why don't you go talk to Roland and she goes and talks to Roland and they set up a little time for her to bring the the daughter by. And the when the daughter comes by, Roland says to Virginia, hey, do you have any feelings about spiritualism?

No, not particularly, He said, go to the movies. That's really good. Go to the flicks because we don't need any interference. So she went off to a movie, comes back a couple hours later, and her daughter was completely healed and the malady never returned.

That's from the medical man, by the way.

That's from the medical man. Everything that I've been able to ascertain about Bob and one of the things about his library, I mean, it's just dense with not just Christian stuff, but all kind. I mean, he was reading Grijif and Ospinski.

He was,

he was dabbling in all kinds of different stuff. I mean, he really wanted to have the experience that Bill had and he couldn't, you know, he couldn't get it. He had the educational variety

and an interesting, you know, awareness that I had is, is that later on when we, we get to the use of LSD to help Alcoholics, Bob would have been the one to go first to Santa Monica if he'd been alive. No, absolutely. He would have been, he would have been Bill. I got Willie, I got this. I'm going to, I'm going to go because he was the medical man.

He was the medical man,

one of the books that I neglected to take a look at in my reading,

you know, before I really started delving into to Bob to try and liberate him from the box that he was in. Is this book called Thy Kingdom Come? And

it's

a Arthur Conan Doyle was the number one voice of spiritualism, the guy who wrote the Sherlock Holmes mysteries,

and he went all over the world promoting spiritualism as a way of life. And

after he died, he got in contact with Medium and downloaded to her all the information that he gave that was wrong. And it's in this book called Thy Kingdom Come. And anyway, Bob reads it and I didn't, I didn't take a look at it because it sounded like just another piece of good Christian literature.

So always open the book. Just don't look at it, you know?

It's why you've got weirdos like me. I finally get around to it, but he says let me know your reaction, especially the general idea of the whole brotherhood of light. Maybe I'm a slightly moist as in wet brained about this, but I really feel that I'm not.

So this is something that that there he's actively engaged in and it's the only scolding letter that the

preview to that is you haven't read written me the letter like you said you would.

So he sends the the book to Bill and Bill says we enjoyed it greatly. We're now passing it around to our spook friends, of which there are many.

OK, let's try this one more time. There we go.

So this is for his 8th birthday.

Bob Bill sent Bob a Ouija board.

Maybe that should be something that should be conference approved and we'll just give it to everybody with their eight-year Chip. What the heck, You know, I mean,

and the last thing about Bob is that

I had the privilege the other day of the other day. It's been about six months ago. I'm talking with Mary Darrell, the woman who wrote the lovely book, the the biography of Sister Ignatia. And she said that she was over at Sue's house and they're going through some boxes and there's all these books from the Lilydale Fellowship. And Lilydale is a place that I get to speak at in July. I can't believe it. And it's the center of spiritualism that for 130 years,

the only way that you can have a residence there if you're a proven psychic or medium.

And so I get to go and even push the envelope a little further

with some people that understand,

try and come up with where we are time wise. So so Bob and Ann are going up there frequently. That's from their daughter. So it was not just a little occasional deal. So this is the title of the book that I'm in the process of writing The Illuminated Bill W

and I believe that he spent the second part of his life bringing the 4th dimension to those that were trapped in the third.

And you got to have a place to start a launching pad, right? And we got, we got Towns Hospital and, and, and in the experience that

Bill had at Towns,

one of the things that popular culture does is every five years when we ramp up for our

International Convention, there's always a, a blowback

from popular media. And the last one was all about how Bill didn't have a mystical experience. He just was loaded on belladonna. Now, if you've ever done belladonna, you know it's a crappy drug #1

#2 the protocol for what he was given, and this was later in Silkworth's tenure, was completely different than something that would ever give you a hallucinogenic experience. So just a little something from folks that actually did the work to find out what the protocol was. So

and and in that experience,

Bill called it the flash of reality

capital R that that place of union with all that is

at stepping stones. How many been to stepping stones? Yeah. So if I got any dream for you at all,

go to Stepping Stones. It is an incredible experience. And how many have been to Bob's house? Yeah, well, it's geographically desirable to you guys, but. But anyway, maybe even socially, but I judge no group.

But but anyway, the the the great thing is that both these places have now become a national historical sites. So it bodes very well for the future of our the history of our movement.

Now with Bill, what he says when he starts talking about the psychic stuff is I know to many this subject is suspect or taboo or just ridiculous.

But like most scoffers at prayer, practically always are people who have never tried.

And one of the difficult things about being a historian is, is that when you talk, when you start looking at stuff, I mean, how far are you going to go?

How far are you going to go? How far would you go? I've had a lot of fun. So this is the spook group they get to and, and this is what they called it. So they move into the house and, and it's stepping stones. And at this, it's in this incredible gift. I mean, it's like they've been homeless for three years and suddenly they find this wonderful home. And the woman sold it to him for what they were paying for storage

on their their stuff. That was the monthly payment. And some of the folks that were in the Spook group, not only were people like Bill's editor, Tom P, but there were also also there was Lois, and then there was Devoe and Ann B. So both of the founders of Al Anon are part of the Spook group. So we know that it was well supervised.

And Lois kept notes of all the different things, the table tapping, the channelings, all this stuff. And I've had the deep and lovely privilege of being actually able to read the book

to turn the pages. And there's some really fun, fun stuff.

So the first two years that they're having this weekly meeting, Bill doesn't get any channeling at all. And then all of a sudden, bang, there's this, there's this. The first transmission he got was from a woman named Meg. And Meg said, how the hell are you?

And then later on, he had contact with Jack Westinghouse,

Hercules, all kinds of different folks came funneling through. He said, I developed into sort of a medium myself. No, he was a medium, no doubts about it. And one of the things that he talked about the process of when. And so anyway, this download comes the first time and he can't shut it off for like 3 weeks. There's just all these different personalities coming through and all these different messages. And he thought he was going to have to turn himself into the mental hospital. But then it, it, it, it ended.

And umm, so Bill talked about the way that, that, that, that he got in contact. He said it is the opposite of concentration. It is a relaxation. And he said that once he developed the, the ability that any time that he dropped into this relaxed or meditative state, he could get information. It's really not that different than the Oxford Group.

How to get guidance?

You know, getting quiet, asking for information.

This experience in Nantucket, where I'm going to, I'm going to refer you to.

Well, Nah, what the hell?

Fun story.

So Bill is up in Nantucket visit nobody he and Lois and he gets up early in the morning, makes some coffee, smoking cigarettes and all of a sudden this disincarnate shows up

a being without a body disincarnate. Isn't that a great I think I dated a couple disincarnates sure of it. But anyway, so so he this guy shows up and and he starts talking and he goes, I need to get a boat. Can you help me get a boat? I need a job. And Bill says no, I don't have any connections in that.

The guy says, well I need a drink. Can you help me get a drink? And,

and Bill said, well, do you know that you're dead? And the guy goes,

you mean that's why people aren't talking to me?

Yep. And he's and, and so they talked for a little while and Bill says, now when you leave, if you just relax, you'll see people that will come forward to help you through the process and you'll be you'll be able to, to to make the transition. And the guy says, wow. And he leaves. Couple minutes later, a guy shows another disincarnate shows up and says to Bill, great job. You did a really good job. We've been trying to get this clan to the other side and he keeps walking into walls. You know, it's just been awful

job. Would you like to meet anybody else?

It's smoking, having coffee. What would you say? Bring it on. You know, so these guys come in. There's Pettingill. Pettingill was killed in the with Admiral Farragut in a battle outside Nantucket Bay. And there's this guy Quigley, who'd been a quartermaster of a ship. And so they have this conversation, Bill's talk, and then drinking coffee. And these guys are telling their stories. And it's a wonderful thing.

Finally, they leave.

Now Bill rarely told people about these things, right? But since he's at these people's house, he decides in the morning to tell him. And they just all get nervous and say, isn't it time for you to go back to New York or something? And you know, now we were planning to go on a picnic. So they go on a picnic into Nantucket and they go to the the they go to the War Memorial. And son of a gun, if Pettingill's name isn't on the on the on the War Memorial.

And you could in those days, you could go in the Nantucket Wailing Museum and you could actually read through the captain's log, you know, people that it would signed in when they landed and what they had and all that stuff and whose name's in there a bunch of times. But Quigleys

and it was really fun. When I was at GSO, I found a letter that Bill wrote to the guy that he was staying with 20 years later saying do you remember? He said. I really had a good time with that. And still in telling people

now, I want you to understand that Bill Wilson is running with some of the most far reaching talented people in society in these days. OK. In the world of psychics, it's Eileen Garrett, Arthur Ford,

Madeline Kahn. In paranormal research, he's working with RB Ryan from from Duke University.

He's engaged with Gerald Heard, one of the most striking philosophers, somebody that really helped create the foundation for the 60s, Aldous Huxley, another incredibly brilliant and articulate man. These are his running partners, aside from all kinds of different people.

At one point,

uh, he's got some friends who he helped and they say we've got a guy who's created a way of getting energy from the sun.

Can you help him? And so Bill, because of his connections, gets him into the inner sanctum of GE to start the solar industry. You know, I mean, this is, this is the guy. This is the guy, not the promoter. You know, I mean, most people have an opinion about Bill and his first three years. If you've got an opinion of me and you're stuck with me in 1982, God bless you.

So,

oh, Arthur Ford, the man who talked to the dead. He was the greatest medium of his generation.

He was the guy who solved the Houdini Riddle. And the Houdini Riddle was that Houdini had spent all this time busting mediums and psychics and proving them to be frauds and but he, when it came to 40, wouldn't touch. He wouldn't touch Ford or Eileen Garrett, both friends of Bills. And anyway, Houdini died suddenly and he had given his wife a code.

If somebody comes to you and says this, this, this, this, in that order,

you know

that I'm touching you from the other side. And son of a gun, if Arthur doesn't do that. And of course, the moment that it was done, the next week, everybody's on her. And she she never dissuaded the fact that she signed the thing saying that she got this. But she would always say, well, I never got anything else from him. But, but he's the guy that actually did it. And

another time he was very close to Bill and Lois. And, and

because one time Bill was walking through the streets of New York and he had this

download that he was supposed to, to go find Arthur. And so he goes to Arthur's apartment and he's got an esophageal hemorrhage and he's he's dying. And they were able to get him to the hospital. And after that, he was always really, really close and loving to Bill and Lois. He gave a download to Bill that he got from the Reverend Walter Thompson. Bill goes, you can't get anything from toxic. I was just with him as Founders Day a few weeks ago, and he's alive.

Arthur says. No

and so bill makes the call and he finds out that indeed tongues had passed and the information that he got was exactly right. If you want to read a really fun book, this book Nothing So Strange is a story of Arthur Forde life and

and in it it talks about him getting sober in Alcoholics Anonymous in the 40s and it's really, really fun. So if you want to know what old school A A was like, it's a great source.

This is Eileen Garrett. Eileen Garrett was the greatest medium, Sheehan Arthur Ford of her generation. She was the founder of the Society of Parapsychology and,

uh, she was, um,

so I'll give you just a little taste here,

I thought.

Dear Mr. Wilson, I take great pleasure in suggesting that you may wish to participate in a conference dealing with the relationship between parapsychology and psychedelics, with particular emphasis on medium and Mystic phenomenon. Scheduled to take place here in New York November 15th and 16th. The meeting will bring together some 15 people who share an interest in the useful of recent findings regarding LSD, 25 mescaline and related research tools

Related research tools. When I say LSD I am talking about medicine.

I am talking about a breakthrough in consciousness that happened in the mid 50s. This is pre Timothy Leary. I am not talking about in a dark closet is a place to trip. That's not what I'm talking about. I am talking about

research tools

and for similar purposes, we'd appreciate it if you have a brief biographical note showing your recent afflictions and pastor present activities

with special emphasis on psychedelic studies. I look forward to seeing you again, Eileen Garrett, This is Bill's reply. Eileen, you can have no idea how much I think about and treasure the meeting we had concerning the general outlook for psychic research. What Bill wanted to do when he resigned from Alcoholics Anonymous in 1960, because that was his goal, was he was going to pour all of his

energies into proving survival of the soul

after the Undertaker, as he liked to call it.

And he was with some of the greatest scientists like Doctor Meninger and Oppenheimer. Dr. opened Robert Oppenheimer, one of the people that's credited with the creation of the hydrogen bomb, a people he had good friends at Kodak. They were doing all kinds of research, testing with all kinds of infrared stuff. I mean, they were going to. And he believed that that was a more important contribution that he could make to the world

than the creation of Alcoholics Anonymous.

Though none of you

US AAS can cooperate with you in a sense of being in the public eye, I'm sure you're going to find a very high degree of devotion and interest respecting precognition or any other project you may think holds promise. And with pleasure, I send you my acceptance for the Barbizon Plaza meeting November 15th. I'm sure that from our A A experience, bits and pieces of helpful information can be drawn.

Regrettably, I can't be with you for the full seminar all day Sunday.

We hold meetings for incoming AAS who attend our annual dinner the next day. So anyway,

kind of fun. This is Lucille Khan. Lucille Khan was she and David were all this Huxley's or excuse me, not Aldous Huxley, Edgar Caseys Great financial supporters.