The topic of 'My Sponsees are nuts' at a workshop called Kitchen Table AA in New Orleans, LA

3 minutes just to get in the groove. Bring everybody together

whenever you're ready, Jay.

God

grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

Morning. Happy Easter Sunday to you.

Thanks for coming.

We're going to have a topic today

is my sponsees are nuts.

They were going to have a little interlude and then some questions and answers.

So my name is Matthew, an alcoholic.

So I wanted to touch on a couple things about this

is the broad topics that we can say whatever we want, I think, and we were talking last night, you know, about the

how do we convey the urgency of doing this work and what it the ripple effect it'll have in your life and then and in other people's lives. But then we were just talking about it Sunday morning and Easter Sunday. So you guys are the faithful. We don't really need to convey this to you, but I'm going to talk about my experience and I'm going to talk about one of my sponsees named Sean

Dirt about the guy that threw the big book at. Well, that's a good short story. I'll start. OK. Yeah. So this is how I got into the a, a Hall of Fame

because I was sponsoring this guy in Santa Monica. And in Santa Monica, there's a meeting, a men's meeting at a, at a restaurant on the 3rd St. Promenade, which is a pretty nice area, kind of a touristy area. And this guy had a shop, He had a head shop

there and he was struggling to get sober but he would meet me and read but he would never take any direction. So one day we're walking and he's all anxiety ridden and freaking out and we're walking side by side

with our big books. We're going to go sit. There's a bluff with some chairs where you can sit and look over Pacific Coast highways, down a Cliff and then the ocean, the Pacific Ocean. So we're going to sit there and read and I'm sort of walking a few steps ahead of me because I don't understand why my life's not changing. I don't get it. I'm coming to all the meetings and I'm meeting with you and I go, oh Gee, I know why your life's not changing. You haven't done a single thing I've asked you to do. You haven't followed any direction or taken any steps. And I turn around and the books going

right at my head.

So I duck and it goes over the Cliff on a Pacific Coast. I would love to think some drunken guy at a convertible had it land there, but I would be embellishing the story if I made that part up. So he called me and told me that and I went. The guy threw the book at you, man. Well, that was the best part. I called Bill like a dude. Do I have to sponsor this guy? I mean, he tried to hurt me

and he's like, you know, I think you're good. And he's laughing. He threw the book at you and he threw it hard. I mean, he meant to hurt me. And he went his way and I went mine

and I walk all the way around talking to Bill on the phone. I go down the 3rd St. Promenade. I walk up in front of the meeting and he's standing there. He goes, thank you for never giving up on me. And I'm like, damn it, you know, I was this close to being free of you. But but I will tell you when when Philippa was in the hospital, which was just a few months after that, he showed up all the time. And that was almost an hour drive for him. And he would sneak his dog in there to play with her and into ICU. And you know, his

in the right place. He just, you know, we had a head shop, didn't have the right job for a but I so there was this guy, very charismatic guy that used to come around then tell this story and then tell you what I'm doing now with sponsorship. And he, he, I really was attracted to him. He's a great B3 organ player,

interesting guy, tall Irish guy and just full of life and and and creativity. But you couldn't trust him at all. He was one of those guys, you know, just very attractive personality.

But he was going in and out and he had done many years in prison as a bank robber. In fact, he, I think he robbed 33 banks and Bill insulted him one time and said, so you're an unsuccessful bank robber. And he said, hey, I was successful 32 times.

It's the last bank to get you. But so I just loved him, but I didn't sponsor him. I liked seeing him. And one day he was sitting outside of a meeting in his his old Mercedes. He was kind of, he had big shotism, you know,

said this Mercedes. It would have been cool if it were like

20 years ago, but it was a mess, this car. And I go in and I get in his car and sit down and it's full of pot smoke. And I said, Sean, did you do a fifth step recently with Dean? I think Dean Thomas was a sponsoring. He said, yeah. And I go, what did you leave off? And he goes, how'd you know I left? I can smell it,

you know, And he go, I go come on in the meeting. And I got out of the car and he drove away

and he disappeared for a while.

And we had been friends for maybe over a year. Then he disappeared and I was really worried about him. And then I get a call and my wife is standing in the kitchen with his tiny kitchen. She's cooking. And the phone rings and I pick it up and it says, no, no. I get a call before that, about two weeks before that. And he says, hey, it's Sean. And I said, what's up? And he goes, man, I'll, I'll do anything to stop drinking. I'll do anything to stop drinking. I'm stuck here in Ohio. He'd gone on a geographic. And he goes, I'm in a hotel. And I just, I got to stop. I got to do, I'll do whatever you say.

And I said, yeah. I said, you know, I think I can get you a bed at a sober living house. And immediately he changed. He said, well, I'll give you a call in a week or so. And I go, no, no, no, no, no click. Right. So two weeks after that my wife's cooking and I'm standing talking to her after work and the phone rings and it's a collect call from the Green River, WY jail from Sean.

Will you accept the charges just to find out the story? I'm going to accept the charges. It's worth it.

Always interesting. Yeah. So I accept the charges and

he says I can't believe on this stupid first thing out of his mouth. Said that about five times during the conversation. And I said, well, what happened? And he's forgetting that he's on a phone from the jail so they're probably recording him. And he said, well, I was. I didn't want to stay in sober living. So I found these guys that would pay me to transport 180 lbs of pot from Ohio to California. So that was his plan. I'd get a bunch of money, I'd rent an apartment, and I'd get sober.

But the wrinkle in his plan was he was nodding off on morphine, I think, and he got a flat tire outside of Green River, WY, and he got out of his car and he had a camel's hair coat on. So rather than change the tire himself, he called the tow truck.

Well, guess what was on top of the spare tire? 180 lbs of pot,

which he had forgotten about.

So they looked in the trunk and go, we need to tow your car. And he goes, OK, so they tow the car at the gas station. He goes into the office and said it took forever to change my tire. He said I walked out, my car's up on the hydraulics and the whole gas station surrounded by police cars. Now this is a guy who spent a long time in prison. He doesn't want to go back. It's funny, but it's tragic. He's in his 50s now. He had a chance,

so he goes to jail and I get off the phone. This is the great part of the story, I said to my wife. He goes,

she goes, what did he keep saying to you? And he said, he kept saying, I can't believe I'm this stupid. And she said that's so funny. You've been telling him he's that stupid for a year.

I loved it,

actually told him that later but he was in jail and awaiting trial and he called me and said can you help me? I,

I want to, I want to get out on bail. So I, I did, I arranged some things to help him and I got him and he came to California while he was waiting for his trial. And he did a fifth step. And I'll tell you, and I've heard a lot of them, a lot of them. And he came to my office. He's a great big guy at night. I had an office near the airport. I was in shipping then. And he lit a cigarette and there's no smoking in my office. But he was just so

upset that I knew I couldn't stop him. And then he put his cigarette on my desk

and lit another one. And I go, dude, you can't smoke in here. But if you're going to smoke in here, just smoke one cigarette at a time. But that's how nervous he was. And then he said, I'm going to tell you everything. And he did. And, you know, he'd been to prison a lot. He'd, he'd done a lot of things. And he let it all out. And he was like

crying from his guts, you know? And he was this great big guy. And there's moments in sponsorship where you say something and you don't know why you said it.

You didn't plan on saying it. You know, if, you know, if you watch Bill Jay and I were thinking of what we're going to say, right? That's called AA listening when you're talking. I'm going to, he's going to stop soon. And then I can say stuff. And it wasn't like that. I was just listening, right? And he went on for hours. And by the time he was done, it was curled up a little ball on this couch in my office. And he was tiny. You know, this guy is 6 three easily

and he's crying and he says

and he and I said and I don't know why I said this. I believe I was a channel and I said, do you think because of all these things you just told me

that God can't love you and he's just wrenching. And he said, how could God, any kind of God, love me after all of that? And then again, out of my mouth, something I didn't plan on saying. I said, well, all I know is I'm sitting here and I'm a human being and I just heard all this and I love you more than I've ever loved you.

And I don't know why that happened, why that came out of my mouth.

And I flew back to Green River with Sean for a pretrial hearing. And he was honest. You know, the judge asked me is he going to drink again? And I said, I don't know. But I, I don't know if I'm going to drink again. But I know that when he's not drinking, he's a force in society. He's a good force.

And he was supposed to get 15 to 20 years. He got three to five and he had the first ever. And in prison, he went to the Native Americans. Big tall guy, right? And he said, look, you guys should come to a A. You're all drunk all the time here. You should come to a A. It really works. And they said, OK, white boy, you come to our religion and we'll come to your religion. So this giant Irish guy had to sit through sweat lodges

and he said, Matthew, I thought I was gonna die.

And he tells me this later, But I used to see call me on the phone one time. He called me and he goes, what's going on? I go, well, if you got a minute and he goes, yeah, I've got five years.

And then I, I used to make him pray with me. And he told me later he goes, it used to get so much crap because he'd be kneeling on the prison floor with the phone barely reaching his ear. And we just had to. He just was willing, you know, and

never in the history of this prison that this happened, but the warden and the judge

got together and got him out in a year

and he came to our seething cauldron

and was a contributing member of our meeting.

So obviously that's a wonderful thing to talk about what happened in Sean's life. But I can't tell you how much he did for me. I, I put my house up to get him out of prison. Don't tell my wife.

She doesn't know, no.

It seemed like a detail that would just upset her.

But because I sense, you know, there's there's there's a compliance and surrender.

And I could hear surrender. And I don't think I wasn't nervous about that. I was nervous about that. But the point of the story is how much I got like, why did I say those things about God to him? When I went back out in my parking lot that night after that fifth step, it looks smaller. You know, like when you go back to your old school and you're like, wow, the desks are so small. And this was such a big place.

He changed me and we had a very loving friendship. He's not. I don't know where he is now,

he's a Rascal, but for a long time he did a lot of good work

and helped a lot of people.

But anyway, I'll just finish with this. You know, I very rarely when I get a talk at meetings get act, you know, get up to what it's like now, you know, because there's a lot of stuff that happened. But what it's like now is 2 years ago I moved to Washington from Southern California and it was scary and painful because we had a great life in Southern California. But I'm the sole breadwinner because of my wife's disability. And I've been with the company a long time and they were going through a downsizing and they said, we can offer you this promotion, but

have to move. And, you know, I had two teenagers who were surfers and had great friends and lived in the sunshine. You know, Rory sitting up there used to throw his backpack in the door at 2:30. And then I didn't see him till dinner, kick off on a skateboard or take his surfboard with his friends. And we had a great life. And I had all these guys. You know, I had my my Home group and lots of service working. But we moved to Seattle

and it was really

upsetting.

You know, I didn't sleep for months. I go to sleep at 2-3 in the morning up there. This new beautiful house you bought. And I'd wake up too early and I'd wonder, what have I done? What have I done? You know, I did a couple things up there that were really important and I want to share them with you. One is I built a cabin in the back of my property. I have 5 acres because when you, when you sell a tiny little box in Los Angeles, you can buy a mansion in Washington. So I sold my box and I bought 5 acres. I have a pond,

our beautiful house. But you know, I wake up in darkness. I wake up with heaviness. I wake up like an elephant sitting on my chest. Like, what did you do? Is this about you? Is this really about you, or is it about taking care of your family? And I can tell you, I don't know. I just made the best decision I could make as an adult because I have to support these people.

You know, it isn't like I was dying to move to the Pacific Northwest,

but I built this cabin and I and because of some things Jay started with me where he was worried because I told him I wasn't meditating much years ago on the road. So he would call me every day wherever I was at 6:00 in the morning, we meditate for 5 minutes. Well, that blossomed into a community and I met. I meditate for half an hour now, from 5:30 to 6:00, with four or five of my sponsees, depending on who shows up

on a conference call. So I built this cabinets at the way at the back of my property in the morning. I get up at 5:00. I walk back there,

I read some spiritual literature, actually the same thing every day, but it's a big long book. And then I light the candles and I call the boys and I sit still for half an hour. And sometimes I go deeply into meditation and sometimes I just sit still for half an hour. And but it's never not worth it, you know? And believe me, it's 30°. Sometimes when I walk back there. I, I didn't know that oil in an oil lamp could freeze. Do you guys know that it can,

which makes the loyal lamp useless.

And there's no electricity out there. There's just a wood stove. But I can tell you now, I don't know what I would do if I didn't do that because it's a big burden. And I, I had to learn that it's not all, you know, don't worry. Like make sure they're OK Do everything you can, plan some good vacations. And my wife, I was really worried when I moved up there, there she would not be OK because she's has inhibited in inhibition because of her issues. And we're kind of out in the country. We're a little far from town. And you know, you know, you talk about things

fold and consciousness unfolding. Bill would call them coincidences. I call them consciousness unfolding, Right. God is that I went to the soccer tryouts with my daughter. I flew her up there because I thought maybe I'd get her soccer team, she'll make some friends. And the coach is from Ireland. And I, I said, oh, my wife's from Wales. And he kind of whipped around. He goes, your wife's from Wales. Where do you live? And I said, well, we bought the house on Spruce and he goes, I know that house.

And a couple of weeks after we moved there, three or four cars pulled up with 10 women

from Ireland, Scotland,

whales, all of Great Britain. And my wife has more friends than she's ever had in her life.

The other thing I did is I started going to meetings up there and it's weird, no one wants the new guy from California to sponsor them. In fact, they don't really want him to share that much either because I share about the steps and stuff. And and I had a hard time finding meetings where I felt like they were even being respectful to Alcoholics Anonymous. So I went on a speaking thing to Colorado one time and this my host said, we're not going to go to the speaker's breakfast this morning. And I was feeling this emptiness and this disconnection.

Lived in Washington. So we're going to go to the Salvation Army Men's home because they need you more than you need to go to that breakfast. And I said, oh, that sounds great. And it was a big old Craftsman house. And I went in there and these guys were like leaning over like, what do you think this means on page 63? And how did you do this? And, and do you pay all the money back? Or what if you what if you did something and nobody knew about it? And I just felt alive, you know, because I had all this experience and no one to tell it to.

And I wanted that lifeline, you know, I wanted to feel my growth and like Sean gave me and all those people gave me. So I go, this is what I'm not doing in Washington.

So I go back to Washington and they go, I said, hey, is there any panels or salvation, other things? They go, we have a prison panel, we could really use your help. And I go, OK, so I filled out all the paperwork and they go, yeah, it's the women's present right over there. And and it's been an adventure, man. You know, I go in there, try to go once a month. Sometimes I'm traveling and there's some people in there really working the program.

I was really moved in there. There was a girl who said to me, you know, I was involved in this crime.

And then she paused and said, you know, I really want to stay sober. I brutally murdered a man.

I don't want to keep lying about what happened. I wasn't involved in a crime. I brutally and intentionally murdered a man and she's doing great. She's sponsoring people. But then when we were moving up there, before we got there, Rory and I took the Airstream trailer up the coast and my wife and daughter, who no one wants to move, right? My wife was more game 'cause she likes adventure, but dumped. My daughter didn't want to move. She was 14. And they go to this house and I purposely didn't set the alarm because

my wife gets confused really easily and I didn't want her to have the police come right when she got there and the house is only going to be empty for about a week. Well, someone burglarized our house before we got there and they stole everything. They stole the speakers out of the ceiling and the new computer I bought and some of the furniture in the beds that I bought.

Weird. And and you know that guitar that introduced me to my wife at the bus stop? They stole that

and I had hidden it in a crawl space in the top floor, thinking because I'm paranoid about guitars, and they found it. Rory just reminded me I bought a pack of cigarettes because I was flying up there for months at a time, painting bedrooms and moving furniture and buying computers. None of our personal stuff was there but this guitar. So I brought the guitar and I bought a pack of cigarettes and I smoked like two of them in three months. And I stuck it up in this little drawer in the laundry room. That backpack cigarettes. They stole the pack of cigarettes.

They're in there for maybe days. So then I'm doing this prison work. And they said, hey, maybe you should, You've been showing up for the prison. And we can't get anyone to go to the county jail. And I go, it's my, I'm getting a lot out of this prison work. And I want to tell you almost every time I go, oh crap, I'm supposed to go to the prison. I don't want to go. I like home. I like my guitars and my wife and my children and my dogs. And, but I go and I float home. I float home and it's different every time. So I get to the county jail and it's darker. It's more grim than the prison,

frankly. Those guys are in for a year or less. Some are waiting for sentencing. Most of them have lived there most of their lives. They're in and out and in and out and in and out. And I go and there's a big panel of of cells up here and a big panel of cells down here. And the guards are outside looking at me through glass, but they can't see them. There's mirrors. And I knew from my training that I need to control this. There's going to be more of them than me. And when they come out, I just run up to the stairs and I shake their hand. Matthew, I'm from a, a. What's your name? And they tell me their name. I go,

hey, if you're really serious about recovery, we're really welcome you. If you're not, we, you can sit in your cell and keep the door open. That's fine. But we want to make sure you're serious. I try to set the tone and it goes, well, these guys, they have my back, you know, and then they let the bottom out. This all happens and I get, I get, I go back home and thank God, you know, I think I'm connecting finally. I've been going for months. I think I'm reaching them and on my desk is a letter from the Kitsap Corrections Department and it says, I think, oh, maybe my badge is revoked or something,

can't go. Maybe they did something background check and I opened it up and it says, you know, the guy who burglarized your house is being housed in the Kitsap County Jail.

So I'm 12 stepping the guy

and I meet 250 guys a week. I don't remember his name. I I didn't look at his name and I called Bill and said I don't think I should look at his name. You know, so if I go in there and I think all of you will have a chance to stay sober, but not you, you puke.

But I would like to know where my guitar is,

but I'm getting so much out of going there that I can't. I don't want to think about that. You know, I, I'm now connected to a A, although still hardly anybody knows me at the meetings. And one funny thing I'll finish with this is when I started at the prison, these women said, hey, we're trying to organize a conference. And I go, great. I have a lot of lot of experience with conferences. So I helped him organize this conference. In a week before

the conference, the speaker canceled and they said they called me and they said our speaker canceled. And I said, you know,

I've spoken at a couple of conferences and they go, yeah, Matthew, we want a real speaker.

So I didn't, I didn't speak at the conference.

But the point of all this is with that house, with my family,

the love we have and this service work. I don't have an elephant on my chest anymore and I sleep pretty well

and I know that it isn't all about me. I'm just, you know, friend of mine

had a, his sister was a third grade teacher and the kid wrote a poem. And I think this is so beautiful. About 1/3 grader said I'm very small. I'm very small. I'm very small, but I'm part of it all. And that's where I feel like I finally found my place. So thanks.

He

started speaking a lot and

he starts getting calls. You know, I mean, he's traveling around doing all this stuff. And so him and I both got called to do the Arizona State convention

and a look on the schedule and I'm the Friday night guy and he's the Saturday night guy.

So I call him up and I go. Did you tell them that they made a mistake?

He said. No. It never crossed my mind.

We had fun that week. Yeah, it was a good one.

All sponsies are crazy.

We're all a little bit nutty.

Some of us have a little bit better social skills than others.

I've run into guys that have virtually no social skills at all.

For a long time. I sponsored this guy, Owen.

Owen

is a very strange man.

And with the way he got out of his family's home, they kicked him out when he was like 16 or something like that. And he went down the street to a house that was under construction and just moved into it.

And he had no problem with that at all. He has no problem living on the street at all. It's interesting when you find somebody like that and you realize that it's, they're comfortable. It's not like they're suffering. You know, they've learned how to live like that. Well, by the time he got the Alcoholics Anonymous, you know, he had never had an apartment. He was living in a car down by the beach

and you know he needed some extra rooms, so he went and got another car and parked it. Next day

had a job

and,

you know, for a long time he, he would tell these great stories, you know, I mean, just great homeless stories. And

he was sleeping in a park, in Victory Park. And he, and he would always, he'd be drinking and he would always save some at the bottom of the bottle an inch or so for the, for breakfast, you know, and, and he felt secure that there was still some left in that bottle. You could sleep OK 'cause he knew that if he woke up, he woke up, he'd have something to drink and, you know, he'd have more medication.

And he woke up and there were ants all over him.

And he goes, why are there ants on me? I'm not dead. And that was his reaction to it,

you know, And he, he,

I really was intrigued by this guy. He was coming to a a he. It was on Thanksgiving and he went to the gratitude retreat

figuring that he could get some food and he knew what time all the hamburger places and stuff like that throw out their breakfast and he would be by the dumpsters. And you get that out of the dumpster. Well, this is Thanksgiving, so he figured he'd go to the gratitude retreat because he'd gone there before and they'd always given him some food and maybe let him sleep on the couch.

And he goes there and the guy brings him in, puts him on the couch, gives him some food, and he just stayed there. Nobody told him to leave, so he just stayed there. And this guy, Paul Ragone,

who's a plumber in

a A, would go down to the gratitude retreat when he needed some guys to dig a ditch or something to lay pipe. So anybody want to earn a few bucks? So he tells Owen, you know, you want to earn a few bucks and goes, yeah, So Owen goes with him.

Owen became a plumber

and he just never drank again.

He just stopped. And I look at him and he would tell me this and I'd look at him and I go, don't you think that's remarkable? You think about it. He go, no,

I mean, this guy's a gutter drunk. I mean like, just like you envision, like when you see in the movies, this is this guy walking down the street talking to himself. You know, I used to drive around with him. We'd be going somewhere

and he'd see a homeless guy. He knew all these guys and he'd yell at him and cuss at him, get a job.

Oh I mean he wasn't like friendly.

That guys a loser.

No shit. And I was like. And

so

I started pursuing him. He was coming to our Monday night meeting and he didn't have a sponsor and he would take a birthday cake and tell everybody how he was not working the steps

because we all we all in there talking about working the step. Owen, whenever he'd share, would be sure that we understood that he's not working in steps and that he's perfectly fine. Thank you, you know, and then he would tell these crazy stories and and I just love the guy. Just thought this guy's a jewel. He's a gem, you know, So I start pursuing him and I said, you know, you need to do an inventory. And he goes, well, I've written some stuff down. I said, welcome on over. Let's read it, you know,

so he comes over to my place and and, and he reads me his inventory and it's, you know, it's a mess. He's

no columns and nothing. You know, he just wrote out some stuff and confessed some horrible sins and which didn't seem to disturb him in the least. I guess this is what they want to hear about. It's almost emotionless. He's an interesting guy and and he gets done. I go, great, now let's start over. He goes, what? I go, we're going to read the book. You and I are going to read this book together starting from the first page. And he did.

And we started working the steps and he did another inventory

and he

I told him I I had to tell him things like Owen

Bathe.

He goes, really why it's like that? I mean, it's like a true answer. Like really why? What difference does that make? You smell, you know, when you walk in the house, you know, it's pretty odorous, you know? So bathe. He goes OK, and he'd bathe like here,

OK, you know?

And he was compliant. You know, he listened to me.

He comes over to my garage. I'm working in the garage one day and he says,

how do you ask a girl out on a date?

I go, really is yeah, you know, like, what do you do? How do you do that? And this is a 30 year old man, you know. And and I said, well, you asked her, would you like to go see a movie? So so you they do, they actually do that. You take them and get them something to eat and go see a movie and stuff. And I went, yeah. And he goes, well, don't they know that you just want to have sex with him? Yes. I mean, why bother with? Why don't? Why just walk up and say, hey, you want to do it?

And I said,

yes, Owen, they know.

We just don't say it out loud. We pretend like we want to know them. And then if we're lucky, they'll let us have sex with them, you know? And and he's listen, he listen to me like real serious. He wasn't lying because. Oh, OK, OK. So he would come down to my office and read the book with me and stuff. And I had a secretary there

and he asks my secretary out

and this guy is getting surgeries.

He had surgeries. He's a hair lip. And he he'd have said he's got a big scar here. He's always got about seven or eight days growth of beer, not like two or three. It's always, you know, he looks bad because he never Combs his hair. And she said, OK,

look at, you know, like what?

So she comes back that that weekend they had this date. She comes back and she comes in my office and she's cracking up. You know, she goes, I said, God, what happened? You know, tell me what happened. She goes, we're walking down the street. And he says to me. He says, well, you want to bone down

like that, just like that. And and she goes, no, not right now.

And he goes, huh?

And the rest of the time, he just kind of put in his time

because he's waiting.

They end up getting married and having a kid. The guy knocked up my secretary.

That was a great call. When he called me with that one, he knocked up my secretary. I've never felt about her the same, you know? Never.

No, not now. But they were married for a long time. They listen

that long ago they finally split up. She finally, you know,

and he used to get pissed. He'd say I came here and worked the steps. Now I got all these responsibilities.

It's beautiful. He he drifts, he drifts away from a, a right. He just kind of disappeared over some time. He just stopped going to meetings completely and and then he'd come back every year and take a cake.

And I'm not going to A and I'm OK. You know, you don't have to go to a

he's OK. I'm OK, you know, And in his own words, he would say that kind of thing. So I I went up to him one time and he never has me give him a cake after I saved his life and gave him a secretary. Yeah, I gave him my secretary. And so he'd have Al Big Al would give him a cake just absolutely. Have you see Owen show up? You. Oh, God. And I walked up to him one night and I said,

don't you miss us? Because he was really part of what was going on.

And he looked at me and he goes, no, you know, I think he's kind of autistic or something. And I was like, he just doesn't have any emotions. He doesn't. He's not connecting. And it's kind of OK with him, you know? And I watched the steps in the program work in this man's life, and he was literally clueless about any of it.

He was not having spiritual awakenings. He wasn't. His dialogue never changed.

He never came to me. And he goes, you know what happened the other day, you know, I'm just filled with it, you know, it's like not never, never. And I would try to draw that out of him. And it worked anyway. Anyway, even though he was almost unaffected by any of it,

he made amends. He made some gnarly amends. He, he, there was some real ugly stuff in his past and, and he made amends. He went around, he actually did it. He got on an airplane and flew to Florida and made amends to one of his sisters. I mean, he really, I would give him those directions and he would just like, like a good soldier and he'd go do it. You know, he just did it. He went back to college and got his, you know, heating and air conditioning degree up in San Fran,

Cisco and put his own business to get, his life got bigger, his life got larger, you know, and, and he's still sober to this day. He's got to be like 25 years sober, 24 or something like that, you know, And he's crazy.

He's, he's just crazy. You know, he's, he's still kind of homeless. You know, he's got that error about it more. He's not part of what's going on.

This guy Al that I talked about where I went in with his mother when his mother was dying recently.

He, he passed away a couple of weeks ago and next Saturday we're going to have a memorial for him at my house.

And he he'll have been sober 30 years, my longest sponsee. And

I told you how much I learned from him despite watching him show up and take care of his mother and do this kind of stuff.

He, when he was dying. I, I,

I really wanted to help and I, I vaguely knew his sister and his brother, and they're an incredibly dysfunctional family. I believe his father and his grandfather both killed themselves. The mother was kind of a dark, negative person, very bitter and angry.

His sister. One night

he came over to my house

and just banged on the front door and it was probably 2:00 in the morning.

And I went downstairs. I go, you know what's up? And what had happened is his sister and him were living in in the house their mother owned. She had long passed. And the sister who is, if you saw her, you would like step around her. I mean, she's fucking nuts. I mean, you can see it in her eyes.

It just comes out of her. It's like whoa

and and I always kept my distance from her. She wakes him up,

spraying him with bug spray

and pouring a bottle of vodka over his head. Now Al is 6 foot three, six foot four. He's as big as I am, but he's larger, boned. He's a big guy's, got big hand, calloused hands. He's a Carpenter

and he woke up out of a dead sleep and he just punched her and he hit her and knocked her across the room up against the wall. She just slid to the floor, damn near knocked her out. And, and he gets up and he just, he runs outside and runs upstairs and she's screaming bloody murder and calls the police. And he was going to run.

And he sat there on the hood of his car, leaned up against the hood of his car and just sat there and tried to collect himself. The police show up. They have no idea what's going on. She's screaming. There's blood running out of her eye and her lips and her nose. And, you know, he hit me. He hit me and this cop,

see goes over to AL's. One cop walked over to him and he looked at him. He goes, what's going on?