Q&A on the topic of 'How we ended up in AA' at a workshop called Kitchen Table AA in New Orleans, LA

And now, thank you. So there's a hat going around. Thank you. We're really gratified that most of you came back for part 2. Yes.

We understand and appreciate that. So I'm just gonna pick up where I left off a little bit. So I got sober. I was living with my mom and my dad because I couldn't go back to that apartment. I fell in with a great group of guys, NAA.

And like I said, I I thought everybody worked the steps and got a sponsor and went to panels and went to jails and helped each other. I that was the group of men. 2 of them are sitting here tonight that I met in early sobriety. Bill was not my original, sponsor. In fact, I went to Tuesday night step study when I first got got up sober and got out of the rehab facility.

And I remember I walked in and it was a men's static step study, and there was a circle of chairs. And way across the room, there was one empty chair. So I gotta walk across the room. And I don't know how many people are in their 1st year of sobriety here, but I know that you believe that we're all looking at you and talking about you. Because I believe that.

But I believe that for about 15 years of sobriety. And I was a slow learner. But I I got my coffee and I filled it up too much. So there was this surface tension holding the coffee in. And then I walked across that room and burned my hand and sat down and acted like it didn't work.

And those guys all talked, and I didn't understand what they were saying. Like like Jay said, I it was like Charlie Brown's teacher. You know? But I was getting out of my parents' house because that's where I was living. So I left that meeting, went home, repaired my hand, went back the next week just because I knew where it was.

Right? I didn't have to I wasn't connected to them. I didn't know them. But something important happened to me because that was my first full round of meetings. And I got back to that meeting and that chair was empty, and I filled up my coffee halfway because I went to college.

And, I ran across the room to the chair, sat down, turned around, and everybody that was there the week before was there again. And that said something to me because I was trying to get out of the uncomfortable place, my parents' house, and I had nowhere else to go. And I'm supposed to be going to AA, But there they were. Then they all talked like Charlie Brown's parents. I couldn't share because they can only share if you work the steps that they were talking about.

Meeting was over. I ran home. Then one day, I went into that meeting feeling just as uncomfortable as I'd been in early sobriety, just as self conscious, still in debt all over the world, still in in hated by people that I was afraid of, still very cool reception from most of my old friends. I walked into that room and I sat down and somebody shared something revealing. They shared something personal and embarrassing.

And I got a little bit excited because I thought, cool. Now these guys will spend the rest of the meeting making fun of this guy, and this will finally be interesting. I did. And and I don't I come from that logically. My father was a great guy, really sensitive guy, war hero in World War 2.

But his idea of how to handle things, he dropped me off at school one day and he said, what's wrong with that girl's eye? And so that's Mary. She has a glass eye. And he said, well, make fun of it. She'll get over it.

That's Irish psychology. Yes. So that's what I thought people did. And in my house, if you revealed something vulnerable, we just mocked you. And I thought that's what people did.

So this this guy said this thing. I don't remember what it was. And I thought, right on, this would be great. It's men's tag. Tag.

We can say anything we want. And then the next guy said, I remember when I did that, but I was wearing ladies' underwear, and he got weirder and more vulnerable. And then another guy did that. And pretty soon, I was, without even realizing it, witnessing spiritual love, maybe for the first time in my life. And all I did was go to an uncomfortable place to get out of another uncomfortable place.

And I'll tell you what, I left that meeting. I had not said a word, and I felt cleaner inside. And I went to that meeting for 7 years every Tuesday because something was happening in there that I didn't know of before. And I asked a guy in that meeting to be my sponsor, and he did what people do. He said, read the book, meet me in my house, we'll read it together.

He had a little, button on his gate. I'd I'd butt push the button, the gate would open. I'd have to walk to the courtyard of his apartment building, and I believe there were people looking out the window going, that's one of those lame alcoholics. And I did whatever he said, you know, and I he said one day, we read them up. We would read until we got to a step.

We do we got to this one step, and he said, now we're gonna kneel down on my kitchen floor, and you're gonna hold my hands, and I'm gonna recite this prayer, and you're gonna recite it back to me. So I'm realizing I'm gonna be this close to this guy. And I just thought, wow. I didn't know Jeffrey Dahmer was my sponsor, and I'm not gonna do that. And then he said, okay.

You ready? I said, yeah. And I got on my knees, and I held his hand. I don't wanna be I didn't want it to get too bloody. I thought I'll just do what he says.

And and, you know, we did it, and I did got up. I said this prayer with this guy really closely and holding his hand, and I didn't get up and feel, like, infused with the holy spirit. I got up and felt like, hey. I just did something I didn't wanna do because I wanna change. That was huge.

Seems stupid and little. It was huge. So what happened? I went to 3 meetings a day to get out of the uncomfortable place, and my life got I got cleaner. Remember when I held my child, I felt so filthy.

And I believe when I got out of rehab, I'd go find some place to go sit and just face my sins and cry and wail and beat my chest. And AA had a better idea than that. One One of the important things that happened to me in early sobriety was I, it was early, 60 days, 90 days. I was walking with my sponsor. He would give me rides to meetings sometimes because I had to borrow my dad's car because my AMC died a natural death.

And, we were walking to this meeting, and I said, you know, 3 months ago, I thought having Phoebe was the worst possible thing that could happen to me. And now it seems like such a gift and such a joy. I'm I'm sober in AA, and I I'm 60 or 90 days sober. Right? I can't believe it, how great it is.

I love her so much, and he just walked right into the meeting. And I'm self centered. Right? And I walk into the meeting, and I'm thinking, I did not know he was deaf in his left ear. I will approach him from the other side.

So I watched him waiting for some sort of, you know, like, you're a good dude look across the room, and he didn't look at me through the whole meeting. And we went to the meeting and we got out and I got around his other side and I said, hey. Maybe you don't understand because you don't have children, but I love that little girl more than I love myself. And he put his hand in front of me and said, please stop it. I said, stop what?

And he said, how much child support do you pay? And I said, well, I work at a newspaper from midnight to 4 in the morning stacking papers on a loading dock, and then I sleep for a couple hours, and I go deliver packages for the from 8 o'clock after the 7 AM meeting. I go at 8 o'clock to noon, then I go to the noon meeting, then I go home and sleep, and then I go to the night meeting, and then it starts all over. He goes, wow. I know all that.

What I don't know is how much child support you pay. And I said, well, I don't pay any. And he said, then you're kind of full of it. And I said, what do you mean? And he said, look, Matthew.

You go to 10 gazillion meetings a week. You must know it's not a program of talk. This is a program of action. Why don't you show me you love your daughter? Then you'll never have to tell me again.

He was an asshole. Well, we had a really quiet drive home. I was planning his death, and he was living in the present moment. And I got home and I had this big poster Eric Clapton that I put up when I was 12, but I'm back. And he's full size.

Remember with the cigarette and the Stratocaster, black and white, kind of weird. Anyway, he was awesome. And, I went in and told Eric what a dick my sponsor was. And, because Eric and I were bonding when I live with my parents. And, you know, I realized after a while that he was right.

That's why I was so mad. I'm walking around my room pissed off with not a leg to stand on. And I called Anna, and I said, Anna, I don't have much money, but I could give you some money and that if that would help. And she goes, oh, that'd be so great. This is so much harder than I thought, and I wanna go to college.

And I said, well, how much do you want? She said, well, let's not do that. Let's make it a percentage of your paycheck. So I very smart girl. I thought, okay.

That's fine because I made nothing. I worked at crappy jobs, and I live with my parents. She could have said I'll take 80% of your income, and it would have changed my lifestyle not at all. I would not even notice. I would smoke one less cigarette a day or whatever.

So I I said, okay. She said a very reasonable amount, and every 2 weeks, I paid that amount. Every 2 weeks, I paid that amount. Every 2 weeks, every 2 weeks, every 2 weeks. And then I come to these meetings where you guys all are, and I'd wait till the room filled up and I'd come to the door and you didn't jump up and apply.

And I was kinda bummed. And then I got the grapevine and that there's no article, Matthews is so Matthews paying child support. He's a hell of a guy. And I would you know, I wanted a parade. Right?

I wanted a parade for doing the normal thing. And some of you are laughing at me and not with me, and I don't appreciate that. So let me bring it home for you. Remember when you're newly sober, 6 months sober, you get your driver's license and you go up to your best buddy in the hay and you go, hey, man. I got my driver's license.

He goes, hey, man. You're 40 years old. You should have a driver's license. But I'll tell you what, when Phoebe was a year old, I was playing with Phoebe, and I only paid that child support sport for two reasons, actually. I don't know exactly why I paid it.

One reason is I never wanna drink alcohol again because I go to hell. I go to hell fast. And the worst part is I don't like me and I hate me and then I don't wanna be around me and then there's a gun in my mouth. And I'm surrounded by love when I'm not doing that. So that's the number one reason.

Number two reason is the only spiritual experience I was having my 1st year of sobriety, hands down, was sitting with Phoebe Rose. She had no agenda. She thought I was awesome. She pulled up my lips and my ears, and she laughed. I loved being with her.

And I could walk by those parents of that teenage girl with some dignity because I paid every 2 weeks. But nobody knew and I did it every 2 weeks, every 2 weeks. And then a year in, I'm playing with Phoebe on the end of her mom's bed at her parent grandparents' house. And I'm like, Phoebe, I'm I'm your dad. I'm gonna take you to your 1st day of kindergarten.

I'm gonna take you to your 1st day of 1st grade. I'm gonna take you to high school dances in my car, and then when you're old enough, I'm gonna buy you a car. I'm gonna try to figure out a way a loser like me can pay for college because I love you, and I'm gonna know you for the rest of your life. Why do I tell you that? Because last session, I told you that the the first thing I said when I met my daughter was a prayer to god that she would never see me again.

And that was a righteous prayer because I was gonna hurt him. Without even trying, I was gonna hurt him. But what did I do? I went to meetings all the time, and I paid that money. And every time I got a raise, they got a raise.

And I got a lot of raises. We never went to court. I always showed up, and Phoebe Rose and I are good, close daughter and father. She moved to Portland when we moved to Seattle. I see her a lot.

She's the maturity level I am because she's 23 years old, and I'm 23 years sober. When she was 13, I think she was actually more mature than I was. That's true. Yeah. Whatever.

They like, the peanut gallery has to turn it back. But I tell you this because that's when early sobriety was like, I did all this stuff and that it didn't make sense to me, like, praying on my knees, like, paying child support, like, going to these crappy, you know, panels and you're getting there early, making the coffee, and amazing things happen. One of the things that was hard for me was I didn't I didn't I had a problem with the god thing. Right? But I just explained that whole Tuesday night step study that the god thing happens to you.

Those guys shared spiritual love, and I felt cleaner. I paid child support and became cleaner. You don't have to conceptualize it. You don't have to name it. You don't have to argue about it.

If you're in here and you compulsively drank alcohol and you don't anymore, you have had a spiritual experience. But I said to my sponsor, I'm praying that prayer. Relieve me of the bondage of self. I'm telling my sponsor about my prayer, about self centeredness. I just now realized how crazy that is.

And he said, that's great, man. Why don't you help god out? Why don't you and I go, well, how do I help god relieve me of the bondage of self? And it was like a magnet trying to attract itself or something. It's like my head hurt when he said that.

And he said, why don't you do something nice for somebody and you don't tell anybody? I'm like, well, why would I do that? If I'm gonna do it, I wanna broadcast, you know. Like Jay says, you're an extrovert, Matthew. You think if you don't tell somebody about it, you think it didn't happen.

I hated it when he said that actually. But, so I went into the meeting that night. Big Monday night men's stag, the meeting we love to brag about. Sometimes there's a 100 guys in there. And we make an announcement at the beginning of the meeting.

Is there anybody visiting from out of town? This guy raised his hand. He goes, I'm from Australia. I'm gonna visit once a month. And I go, I'm gonna relieve myself of the bondage of self by remembering his name in 30 days.

That really is how pathetic I am. I thought that altruistic act would change me. So 30 days later, I forgot all about this guy. Right? And I'm at the Monday night meeting and I turn around, he walks through the door and it was like a high school dance.

Kevin. And I'm running across the room, knocking people out of the way. And I come up, I go, Kevin, my name is Matthew. Welcome back to the greatest meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous in the world. And he said, wow.

You remember my name. That's impressive. He said, what do you do for a living? I said, well, I stack newspapers on a learning document, and then I deliver packages. And I'm very professionally fulfilled.

And he goes, well, come outside. And we went outside, and he gave me his card, and he was vice president of an international airline. He said, come to my office. Wear a suit. Bring your DMV.

Bring your resume. I'm impressed with you. I did this little tiny thing to not think about me for 5 minutes, and god went, finally. Why don't we get you out of that shitty job? Jobs.

So I went to his office, and I had a great black suit, really nice tie, really white shirt because Irish people go to funerals. And I had hush puppy brown shoes. That's what I got, man. And he opens the door and he looks at me and he looks at my shoes and he looks at me and looks at my shoes and he starts laughing. And he walks in his big beautiful office overlooking Century Boulevard and he goes, here, here's our human resources girl is unbelievably hot, Hawaiian girl.

So I'm, like, trying to make my shoes disappear into the floor. And she looks at me and she looks at my tie and she looks at my shoes and she looks a little tense. And then we go in her office and I give her my DMV, which was a little thicker than this. That's my Department of motor vehicles readout because I'm so lame. I got arrested for the same DUI three times.

I did. And, I went in there, and we sit out. She's looking at my resume with these big this big gap of years have gone to the party. Right? I got the DMV.

She's looking at my shoes. She's looking at me. She's looking at my shoes. She goes, hold on just a second. And she gets up.

I'm super nervous. And she goes in the other room into the vice president's office, my buddy. Right? She goes in the office, closes door, but the wall is right behind me. And I hear through the wall.

I swear to god. I hear through the wall. He's not gonna fly the goddamn planes. He's gonna put people on him. I got Supermello.

She came in quite tense. And she said, I think we're gonna give you a job. I said, damn right. You're gonna give me a job. I need shoes.

You know? No. I did not say that. I was very, very grateful to have that job. And I started paying more child support.

I started doing more stuff in AA, and these guys were blowing my mind. And one of the things that happened in AA is people showed me what having done a 5th step look like in your life. People showed me what having done a 9 step look like in your life. I gauge people by how comfortable are they because I'm so uncomfortable. And it seemed to me these steps, you do the steps, comfort level goes up.

You can stop, stay at that comfort level, but life will surprise you. One of the great surprises of my life was when I was still living with my parents, working at the airport. I bought a guitar on the way to work one day. I walked into there, to that office. I was almost perfectly on time for work, but I wasn't early.

I wasn't late. And nobody trusted me because I got hired by the vice president. I didn't drink. But I've been the cool guy. Anybody been the cool guy at work?

Yeah. And you got fired. Right? Me too. So I went to the locker.

I petted my guitar. It breaks. I peeked at it sometimes. Taylor, Dan Curry, single cutaway. Beautiful guitar.

You're jealous of me now. And, I took it out to the curb that night. I'm standing at the bus stop, and I turn to the first person I see and I say, hey. Can I show you my new guitar? And it's this woman from British Airways.

And she looks at me, and she looks at the case, and she says, I don't look at strange men's guitars, and gets on the bus. And I think, what a arrogant woman. She thinks I'm hitting on her. I am not. And I got on the bus, and she was pressed up against me.

So she's uncomfortable now because this bus is is packed. She's got a book in her hand called it's, was Mere Christianity. I used to say it was Surprised by Joy, but we just talked about this the other night. She's Mere Christianity. And I said, hey.

I've read that book. What do you think? Because I wanted her to relax. And she said, well, do you believe in god? And I started vibrating.

And I thought, wow. I've I've blown it with this girl twice in 3 and a half minutes. And she said, well, I'm on the fence. I don't know. One of the things I said to her that night was I don't believe in the God that you don't believe in either, but I've seen it.

And I noticed while I was talking to her that she was beautiful, and I was comfortable in my skin. And all the men in here know that's called a spiritual awakening. And I got off the bus, and I asked her out to dinner, and she said no. In fact, she didn't say no. She said, alright.

I wait for this bus. Look at my guitar. I've read that book. You know, I have to wait for this bus every night. Like, really mean.

And I said, you know, no is a complete answer. And she kinda backed up, and she said, well, no. And I said, great. She went her way online. I went home to my dad and, said, hey.

You know, I met this girl. She felt like home, and I totally blew it. And he goes, I don't think that's over. And I joke about this, but it's true. It's how pathetic I am.

I knew I'd grown spiritually because I went to work the next day, and I didn't tell anybody she was a lesbian. Totally not my business. I'm okay. You're okay. We're okay.

And, I went to work it. I didn't think about her more than, like, a 130 times that day. And I ran to the early bus to miss her, and she popped up behind me and tapped me on the shoulder and said, I think I was rude to you. Said, I don't wanna go out with you. I go, yeah.

You were super clear about that. She said, but I'll skip this bus and have coffee with you here at the airport. And, in July, we're gonna celebrate 20 years of marriage. I said to my sponsor before I got married, she's not blonde. She's not anorexic.

She's not addicted to heroin. She's really not my type. And he said, yeah. You changed and grew up, and you attracted a quality person. My wife is beautiful.

My wife is so smart. And one of the greatest things about this relationship for me is she didn't need me. Yeah. But she wanted to be with me. When we were, the first 10 or 15 years of my marriage, sitting next to her was like sitting next to a wild animal.

Like, anything can happen. She was just there. It's like so exciting for me. So exciting. I've never had to lie to my wife to look better than I am because she accepts me how I am.

She's not an alanine. She's not interested in alanine. She never knew her alcoholic when she was drinking. She's not unhealthy that way. But what we came to talk about in the second half is when the second the other shoe drops.

So I met the woman of my dreams. I had a great job. Traveled all over the place. Had 2 beautiful children. 1 of them sitting up in the corner here, and he's not in AA, and he probably wants you all to know that.

That's me. That's Rory. That's my boy. So everything's beautiful. 5 years of marriage, we didn't have it.

We never raised our voices. I remember the first time my wife lied to me. It's because of Rory. He was crying, and we had agreed not to use the bottle anymore. And he was crying, and she went in there, and he stopped crying almost instantly.

And I said, did you lose a bottle with that kid? And there was just a long enough pause before the, no, that I knew she had lied to me, and it was okay. I lied to her about how much a guitar cost one time, but we aren't gonna talk about that. Anyway but there's beautiful life. Right?

I'm going to AA meetings. I'm sponsoring guys. I bought a little house. People are living on my couch. All went well for a while for Jim.

And the next line is he failed to enlarge his spiritual life. I did not. I went to meditation meetings. I did what you told me. I did everything you told me, but there's a lie that they tell you when you come to Alcoholics Anonymous.

They don't mean to lie to you. They say, anybody knew, heard somebody come up to me and go, are you new? And you say, yes. And they go, everything's gonna be alright. Anybody say that to you?

Raise your hand if somebody said that to you. Yep. It's alive and well. Well, that's not true. They don't mean that.

They mean something else. But I came home after 5 years of bliss, super happy, paying everybody back, almost completely done with my men's. In fact, I was completely done with my men's. Working with others, in love with these guys, going on cool vacations, and my wife's laying on the floor. And her eyes are crossed, and her arms are gimped up.

She's having a massive stroke, and everything changed. And I called an ambulance, And my children were with me, and I just walked out the door and got in the ambulance because she can't go. And the neighbors scooped my children up. I didn't even look behind me. And I went to the ambulance and to the hospital.

I called Bill. I called my sister because my parents were dead, and I called her mother in England. And we got to the hospital, and she was in such bad shape that they called a helicopter. And I live in a big city. I live in Long Beach, California.

There's 500,000 people there, and that hospital wasn't good enough because she was dying. So they put her in a helicopter on the street that that Disneyland's on on Catulla. They blocked it off, and we flew to UC Irvine. We got to UC Irvine. They said we're gonna do this operation.

We're gonna make it all okay. We're gonna go up through her hip, and we're gonna drip this stuff on her clot. And when we got in there, they found out that the interior wall of her carotid artery are torn away. No operation. It's over.

She's paralyzed. She's brain damaged. She may live if the brain swelling doesn't kill her, but you've got this now for the rest of your life. It couldn't be. It couldn't be.

So I left the room. I got her okay. I love her. I love her. We were okay.

She got whisked away to ICU. And I walked out in the waiting room, and it was full of men from my home group and from Santa Monica. It was packed. I was not alone. I still had all that stuff I did in me.

I hadn't failed to enlarge my spiritual life. I called Bill when she first went to the hospital, and I said, Bill, Philip has had a stroke, and I don't know what to do. And he goes, call Jay. I don't wanna call Jay. I called you.

And he goes, I want you to hang up and call Jay. I'm like, god. What a dick. My wife's in the hospital. So I called Jay.

He goes I go, Jay, I I my wife had a stroke. He goes, I want you to talk to Adele. I go, I don't even wanna talk to you. I wanna talk to Bill. He He goes, I want you to call Adele talk to Adele.

Put Adele on the phone. Adele says, I've had 6 strokes, darling. Let me tell you what's going on right now. And that's what I get in Alcoholics Anonymous. I don't get opinion well, I get opinions because Bill's my sponsor, but I also get experience, real experience.

And those you know what Jay said to me? He said, hey, man. You've always wanted to be the world's greatest lover. Now is your chance. Well, my wife didn't die, but she didn't get any better.

She speaks beautifully. She's funny. She keeps me present, but she's paralyzed on her left side completely, and she's very forgetful. She can't hold a job. She can't take a class.

She's tried those things. But what happened? Did AA let me down? Hell no. Did self let me down?

It could've. It could've if I relied on myself during that time, but I never left and drifted from AA. And I one guy said to me, he goes, you're just so amazing what you're doing, how you're handling all this. Because Rory was 3. Sophie was 1.

Phoebe was 8 or 9. And I said, what do you mean? And he goes, well, you could be in Vegas with, you know, cocaine and booze and hookers. And I'm like, god, that sounds disgusting. I just want it to be normal again.

And, you know, it is normal again. I've traveled all over the world. Nobody comes up to me and says my life's been perfectly bland and happy since I got sober. Everybody has something, but everybody has something. I was talking to a guy last night at dinner and he goes, do you think AA has lost its edge?

I said, why? I said, because these meetings I go to, some of them are so fufu and they talk about their day and they don't get in the steps. Well, they will because if alcohol doesn't make you wanna work the steps, sobriety sure will. That's all I got to say. Thanks a lot.

Oh, god. When that happened, Bill alcoholic. Bill. When that happened, it was around Christmas time. That's right.

Guys came over to his house and put up the lights, got a tree, put a tree in the house. It was incredible. And he had just started a new job, and he was supposed to go to Chicago for training. And I remember telling him, I said, go to Chicago. There's nothing you can do here.

You know, every you know, people will mow your lawn. You know? I mean, it's and don't tell them about this. They don't care. And he went to Chicago, and he went through the training, and he's got a great job today.

And but, goddamn, it's been a journey. What a journey. The most spiritual thing you'll hear in AA, get in the car. I mean that. You know?

Get in the car. If somebody says to you, hey. We're all gonna go here. You wanna go? Just say yes.

You have no idea what's gonna happen. Ever consciously put myself in a position to be uncomfortable? I spent most of my life making sure I was comfortable. AA will take you out of your comfort zone continuously. Sunday, I'll be 31 years sober, and I I am con I just know that uncomfortable won't kill me now.

I kinda look forward to it. I've gotten used to it. You know? You know, people call. Are you inconvenient?

Absolutely. All the time. I had this drunk call me from Austin, Texas the other night. I've had a long day in retirement. It was rough on me working on my hot rod and stuff.

You know, it was a long day. Karen, my 25 years so your sober wife is laying on the couch. We got a movie on. I'm in my bathrobe. I'm settled in.

Phone rings. Again, I look at it. It says Austin, Texas. So I answer it. This guy's hammered.

I send out daily quotes every day. Some of you may get them. You know? And this guy's drunk on the phone in Austin. And he says, my sponsor sends me all this stuff all the time, and your name is always at the bottom.

So I thought I'd give you a call. And I don't wanna talk to this guy. You know? He's disturbing me. You know?

Just die, man. You know? It's like you know, that's the first thing. You know? That's how spiritual I am.

You know? But, you know, drunks will not be denied. He just kept talking. You know? And, I said, who's your sponsor?

And he couldn't remember his name. He's been coming coming in and out of AA for 20 years. He doesn't like going outside where there's people and all their BS. And, you know, the only time he goes out of his apartment is to go to the store to get some food and some booze, and then he comes back to the apartment. And I could just picture this guy.

Can't you see him? Sitting in his lawn chair in the living room Yeah. Watching the old TV, the big old TV, nothing on the walls, partying. That's the other part of the story. We have a couple of pops, you know, we feel that sense of separation.

And I think the whole idea behind the drinking thing was to get out of the house, go to the party, and have some fun, enjoy life. I ended up naked in my living room watching religious television, taking notes. I'm having sex, menajah uno. We're we're partying now. You know?

I mean, you could answer this question. If there was still a party going on, would we be here? There's no party. Alcoholics don't party, you know. You know, that ended at about 18 years old, 19 maybe, maybe, maybe sooner.

So, once I started got into it and started talking to the guy, then he got bored and hung up. You know? So, yeah. Oh, I asked one thing. I quickly I just said I said, so you've been coming in and out for 20 years.

You probably had several read the book? He goes, oh, I've worked 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Yeah. I've worked the steps. I haven't actually done an inventory, but I've worked the steps.

You know? So I come in to AA. I'm a newcomer in Alcoholics Anonymous. I got the sponsor. I'm working the steps.

I'm going to meetings, and I'm having fun. You know, some people talk about how miserable it was. You know, I was self conscious, and it was a little weird, but I'm I'm having a good time with you. You know, I'm I'm enjoying going to the meetings. And, I love the stories.

I have a friend that says he stayed sober just on the stories for the 1st 6 months. Just listening to the stories, and identified. We identified. Some of us do. And I identified at depth with what was going on here.

And I kinda got it right away. I you know, there was there was kind of an understanding that transcends the intellect. I just kinda got it. I I figured this, oh, this is how it's gonna be now. It's gonna be like this for a while.

You know, I never thought I could stay sober though. I, you know, I never had before. I don't you know, so I knew that sooner or later something was gonna happen. And so far, that hasn't happened, but it's come close. Now I got into it.

He was in general service, so I'm driving him everywhere. You know? I mean, I just I drove the assault vehicle for years. You know? And he he used to ask me, he says, you wanna drive?

You know, I said, sure. And then finally, he just looked at me and he'd go, get your car, you know, because we're going somewhere. I even stopped asking where, you know. I mean, it's just because it was fun. It was fun, and he has this enthusiasm that he's never lost.

Just the fun of it, you know, going places, going to panels, going to marathon meetings out in goddamn damn Norwalk somewhere in the middle of the night, you know, with 5 other people in the room. You know? It's amazing that you could walk into a place like that and walk out and then have had that good time. You know? I mean, we have fun.

We used to have marathon meetings at our local Alano club, and he'd say to me he goes, on holiday holiday weekends, he'd say to me, so let's go down to the Alano Club and troll for newcomers. You know? He'd call himself the vampire of AA. You know? We'd go down there, like, at 2 or 3 o'clock in the morning and just look for them.

You know. And there they are. Who else goes to an Alano club at 2 or 3 o'clock in the morning? Nobody that has a life. Us and them, you know.

It's like and we'd get these guys, you know, and we'd stay up for the morning meetings so that we could tell the people at the morning meetings that these are almost AA meetings, but they're way too early. You know? So I got involved right away. I got commitments right away. And, you know, I became a literature guy, then I became a central service guy, and I got involved in the central office.

And at about a year sober, I started sponsoring people, maybe even a little sooner. Right around that time, I started sponsoring guys. And unbeknownst to me, maybe not entirely, but all of this, all that I was doing was all ego driven. All of it because I don't know any other way. And I'll tell you early on in your sobriety, motivation is absolutely irrelevant.

Yeah. If you do the action, the motivation will ultimately change. You you'll in you'll insert yourself into people's lives, and they you will invite them in, and they will actually come. And many times when you don't want them that close, you know, there they are, you know, and it it's all happening. Matthew said the same same thing with me.

It's like, do something good for somebody. Don't tell anybody. I don't know that I've ever actually accomplished that, you know. And I'm perfectly convinced that if nobody else knows about it, it really didn't happen. You know what I mean?

It's like and so I'm talking. I'm sharing every meeting. I'm I'm a relatively verbal individual, and I have a lot to say. And I don't have to have any experience or knowledge on the subject at all. I can just wing it, you know.

And, you know, so I'm always up at the podium shooting my mouth off about something, trying to be funny. I remember the first really great speaker I heard was a guy named Cliff Roche. And we we Jay and some guys started this meeting that's still going on. This is for over 30 years ago. And, and Cliff was the 1st speaker there.

And I remember sitting right in the front row where he told me to sit at every meeting. And I sit there and I listened to him, and I was so enthralled. I go, yeah. That's what I wanna do. I wanna be the speaker at the meeting.

I don't wanna be sitting down here with the rest of the sheep. You know? I need to be the leader, you know, the the head honcho, the El Jefe. You know? I mean, I need I need to be in charge.

I need devotees and stuff. You know? I need all this stuff. So and you can get all that. You can do that, you know.

I mean, I was rapidly making a name for myself in an anonymous organization. Very weird. Very weird. You know? My wife and I I was married at the time when I got sober, and she really hated me for a very just cause.

And, you know, we went to some counseling and stuff, you know, through the recovery place that I went through, and we made a decision because we had these 2 small kids. 1 was 3 and the other one was 1 when I got sober, that we would stay together and try to keep the family together. And and we we became friends again. You know, we became friends. She got into Al Anon, know, for a while, for quite a while actually.

And she got a lot of benefit out of that. And I was just, you know, nuts about Alcoholics Anonymous, the exclusion of almost all else. But you showed me how to have fun. You showed me how to golf without drinking. I didn't know you could do that, you know.

And, and I'm pretty soon, I'm we're all out golf until we puke, you know, and just, like, being alcoholic about everything we do. You know, just go in places and go into meetings. Just having a great time. Just really having a hoot. And I'm sponsoring guys, and I'm doing stuff.

And, you know, people are getting helped. You know, I'm getting helped and people are getting helped. And, at about 8 or 9 years sober, I ran off with an AA girl and just left my family. And, in those 1st years, as Matthew alluded to, I was very opinionated. I'm better now.