The topic of 'How we ended up in AA' at a workshop called Kitchen Table AA in New Orleans, LA

Hi everybody, my name is Matthew. I'm an alcoholic,

Bill, alcoholic.

Welcome to kitchen table sobriety. It is not modesty or or anything else but sincerity to tell you that it is our pleasure to be here. We enjoy this town and we enjoy the sobriety here and we're really grateful we are invited out, even if we did kind of invite ourselves. We're glad someone took the hint.

But what we'd like to do tonight, just to start it off, this is a weekend of workshops on sponsorship is just kind of let you know what got us to Alcoholics Anonymous. We thought we'd do an hour of what it was like, what happened and how our lives started to improve. And we're going to take a break. Then we're going to do an hour of what happened next. The when the other shoe drops and Alcoholics Anonymous. So, Bill, did you want to say anything?

Yeah, what? He said. OK,

he doesn't do that that often,

and I'll be quiet. OK Oh yeah. We're going to spend a few minutes of meditation if Zach will get off his phone and sit down. Let's hear for Zach

's

and then and and

and. Royce the wheel man. Royce, the man,

he was driving us back from the airport and he ran out of gas.

Got love. AA man, Yeah.

You belong in this room, Miss. Sit down. You belong in here.

Certain truths we hold to be self-evident. So we're going to do some meditation. So let's make sure everyone

we we bring you greetings from a couple of different groups. One is the Hermosa Beach Men's Tag, and the other one is the 11th Step Group in Manhattan Beach, CA.

Both of those meetings have been going since at least 1948. They have a little bit of experience. And in the 11th Step group, one of the things that we learned over the years was is that 3 minutes of being quiet will save your will change your life. Just three minutes. And we're in the postmodern era. You can be late to anything. 3 minutes. OK, so you got the time. All right,

so

even this morning I had the good fortune of of meditating with

with a friend and she was saying, well, I thought we would do it. I was doing it wrong because my mind was supposed to be silent. That's not it. That's not it. And just sitting quietly with your eyes closed is perfection. The only wrong way to meditate is not to meditate. OK, so you get to time it.

No, I mean, you know, I'm going to say 3 minutes if you want to, if you want to do that.

Yeah, I'll do the time, you know, I mean I'm just, I'm good with whatever flows out, you know, might be 3 minutes and 12 seconds.

I'm completely uncomfortable sitting in between these two guys. Well, Bill has been over meditated before, so

usually something Cuban was involved.

So if you guys just take a second be still get comfortable. Go ahead, Jake.

Thank you.

So like I said, my name is Matthew and I have alcoholism

and everybody here OK.

My sobriety dates May 16th, 1993. So that makes me the newcomer and the panel.

I want to tell you a little bit about what it was like so I can

let you guys know that I'm alcoholic like you are, if you're here for that. And I'd really like to tell you about what happened and what what the progression has been like. And fortunately we have a

few days to get really into that. But May 16th, 1993 is my sobriety date and a snapshot of May 1st, 1993 was

things weren't going so well.

I weighed 108 lbs and I weighed. I know that because a few days later I got checked into a facility and they weighed me. I wasn't checking my weight on a daily basis in May. In fact, I was avoiding things like that. And

I lived in an apartment right near the ocean in Redondo Beach that I hadn't paid rent on for a while.

So as a result, I was as paying part of the rent because I had a roommate that would send me a check. He lived in another country for a while. But I wouldn't answer the door. I didn't answer the phone. I hadn't worked in six or seven months. I've been fired from a job that was beneath me. Anybody else fired from a job that was beneath them? Yeah. The great part about that is we took the job that was beneath us before we got fired from it.

And it was

the situation on the outside of my life was that about two or three miles away, my mother and father lived and who I loved and respected, and we're always kind and loving to me. And my mother was dying of cancer. And I

sometimes when I had some clarity, if I woke up and I wasn't inebriated yet, or if it was a decent hour and I had and I missed my mother, I would call her. And Sam coming to visit you

and, and I can tell you honestly in front of all the people, I really thought when I said that that I was going to go visit her. But I know from my experience and looking back on it that I called her and that that six or seven months, maybe 25 or 30 times and told her I was coming over and I never went to the house. And I know what happens like in that situation because

my mother and father aren't aren't Alcoholics. But my brother, who's seven years older than me, used to say he's going to come over for Sunday dinner with his wife and child. And they were always three empty chairs

Sunday dinner. And my mother would cry and my father would swear and pace around. So I knew it was happening.

The job that I'd been fired from was AI was a restaurant manager, which I hated, and I was probably the worst restaurant manager in the history of restaurant management. But

I, I mean, they did go out of business, but a safe amount of time after I was fired that I didn't make amends to the whole corporation for it. But

but you know, I just the way I manage that restaurant, I didn't respect that job. What had happened was I was playing in a band on the East Coast and I got kicked out of the band. And to save face, I told everybody, I've moved back to Los Angeles because my mother had cancer. And as you already heard, that was a lie. But I got this job and I, I used that restaurant job and the way I used everything and how it would best make me feel

good on a moment by moment basis. So I, I looted the bar

of, of alcohol whenever I got a chance. I took advantage of the 18 year old waitresses and I was 31 years old. I slept in my office many, many times through my shifts. I was sloppy with the finances, although I never stole money from them, but I was sloppy with the finances and I was just terrible. And the day they fired me, I, I had one of the waitresses come up to me and said I'm pregnant.

And I hate to say this because it's I'm going to alienate the women in the room,

but I want to be honest and I also want to put this into context. I am not running for president. I'm sharing it an Alcoholics Anonymous. Although today I think I could share this and still run for president, but

but if you had lined up the girls that Marie callender's and said, which one of them do you want to accidentally get pregnant? I would have said not her.

And and it's even worse than you think because I was 31 years old and she was 18. And I my version of that story would have been she's selfish and self-centered. That's terrible. She can't, it can't be her. And she came and said I'm pregnant. I walked upstairs to some meeting they were having in my honor and I got fired.

And Bill likes it when I tell this part of the story. So I'll tell this part of the story. I walk. I walked out and I slammed the door of the back door into the employee parking lot, pretending I had a car in the employee parking lot, 'cause I had dignity, right? I had car keys in my pocket. I just didn't know where the matching car had been for quite a while. And I snuck around in my righteous indignation around to the the street, across the street on Pacific Coast Highway and, and Hermosa Beach,

and oddly enough to a bus stop that's right in front of the Alano Club that I later got sober at. And that's how I know these guys, but I didn't know it was there. But also next to there is a Civic Center. And at that Civic Center they teach, teach these autistic and chromosomally challenge people who are in their young adults how to live on their own, right. So how to like cook and pay their bills and

transportation things? So I walk over there crying. What's not coming out of my nose?

I haven't drawn a sober breath in several months. And this is before I got just right. The day I got fired out of tie on and my Marie Callender's manager badge. And I wanted to die. And I stood at this bus stop and the bus just couldn't come fast enough. And there about 8:00 or nine of these young adults challenged young adults with me and I stepped off the curb to see if the bus was coming in. These these nine people yelled, don't turn in a tree. Don't stand in a tree.

And they scared the crap out of me. Like I thought they saw a bus

and because I was seeing things and not seeing things that were there and seeing things that weren't there and I thought they saw bus and I jump back on the curb safely thanks to them. And I thought, you know, I have two degrees and they can wait for a best better than I can. You know, they're better at it. And I got in my the bus and I wanted to go home and kill myself with alcohol. And so that's what happened.

And six months later, there are seven months later, this girl's really, really pregnant. You know,

I'm not visiting my mom and dad. I haven't answered the door. I walk next door to the liquor store. I'm pawning my guitars now. The things that meant the most to me in the world. I can't, you know that. And I think back because sometimes we get a story about what it was like before we got here and we kind of stick to that story. But I think about my before out sobriety time when I my birthday is coming up and my birthday is May 16th.

So I can tell you if I were just to describe what it was like for me, and I don't know if it was what it was like for you, but

the worst part wasn't all this stuff on the outside. The worst part was I couldn't trust myself to do anything but make my life worse. And I knew that from observing what was happening. I would do the compulsive thing that was going to make me feel better on a moment to moment basis. No matter what, once the thought answered and went into my head, I was going to execute that. And every day, particularly an acceleration after the the bottom was coming, I just

made it worse. And the worst feeling in the world is, first of all, I think I'm losing my mind because I'm seeing things that aren't there and I'm not seeing things that are there. I'm hearing things that aren't happening. But secondly, I, I know that the worst friend I've got in the world is me. And yet I don't want to talk to you. I don't want you to come to my door. I don't want you to call me on the phone.

Does anybody else feel like that?

So that's what it was like in May of 1993. And I can't tell you how much it hurts me that I did not go see my parents. My mother was really, really sick and my father was devoted to my mother. They were married when they when they died, almost 50 years. This is about 45 years they've been married at that time. And, and my mother and father were a living example of kindness and Christianity.

They were my father and mother worked two jobs. My mother worked a job so that I could go to college. My brothers and sisters and I could go to college. They were always kind and forgiving. My mother

help me become a rock'n'roll musician because she knew I wasn't a good athlete. She knew I didn't fit in with everybody, and she bought me a guitar. Not her choice, not what she wanted from me. But my father treated her with kindness and respect, and my mother taught me how to respect women. And when that girl was 8 1/2 months pregnant, I pushed her down the flight of stairs.

And I didn't do that because I wanted to hurt her. I can honestly tell you I did not want to hurt her. I didn't want to hurt that baby. Who would want to hurt an unborn baby?

I didn't. But what happened was she wanted me to go to the doctor later that day and she wanted me not to drink that day. And I've been up all night and what I heard was her yelling at me. And she wasn't yelling at me. She was being a perfectly rational and reasonable. And I pushed her out of the doorway and I knew I pushed her too much, so I slammed the door so I didn't have to watch the consequences.

So that's what it was like for me. I came here,

I came into my life, I had a good life. I had every advantage. And I like to say that about my parents because I go to a lot of a A meetings and I know not everybody had the good fortune I had. And I want to honor my mother, mother and father. You know, my alcoholism is not their fault.

I'm Irish Catholic and that's their fault

and there's some genetic predisposition. So anyway, on May 16th, 1993 to hurry up with what happened is

about May 14th, my brother calls. And my brother was a terrible raging alcoholic from 14 on. And now he was sober 12 years and he called and said it's Mother's Day tomorrow and I want to make sure you're going to show up. And I didn't know why he would say I want to make sure you're going to show up because why would he think I'm not going to show up? I forgot I was calling and he said and I know you're having car trouble,

meaning I have keys.

And he said, I'll come pick you up. And

he said please make an effort. It's mom's last Mother's Day. It's he's sick. And I didn't make an effort.

I thought I would. That was the plan. But I stayed up all night drinking by myself,

and when they came to the door, my brother came to the door. I combed my dirty hair and put on a clean shirt and walked out the door because I didn't want him to see my apartment. I'll tell you why I didn't want him to see my apartment. Somebody in New York described this perfectly. You know, if alcoholism came into your life like a whirlwind and took everything, in a week or two, we'd all come to a A. But alcoholism doesn't do that. Alcoholism takes a bite and you adjust down and another bite and you adjust down and someday

wake up and you're living in squalor and you don't even know it.

And I looked around my apartment and there were so many things I couldn't explain because I'd been living there by myself. There were, I don't know if you guys do this, but there were blankets on the windows to keep out the SWAT team.

Remember the SWAT proof blankets?

There were bottles on the floor. I was making colleges late at night with exacto knives and questionable magazines

that somebody left on my porch, so I added them to my art collection. I just was living like Gollum in there. And I went, I went into the went outside, thought I cool. I covered my tracks. He didn't see my apartment. He can't know what's going on with me. I did not know I weighed 108 lbs. I didn't know you could see my skeleton. And I got in his car and he was quiet. I proceeded to destroy my mother's last Mother's Day or what we thought was her last Mother's Day through inappropriate behavior. I have no idea.

What I did or said

and my brother took me home

and a fight broke out when he drove on the way home and that he drove off and I got so mad at him that I called him to finish the fight. And after I yelled and screamed at him for a while, there was silence on the other end of the phone. And my brother did something that many people had done. But I believe and Bill told me long ago that grace is an unwarranted gift. And I think there was a moment of grace that happened. And what happened was

he said,

I think you have a problem with alcoholism. That's not the grace I had that put to me many times, not by family members, but but I said unbeknownst to me that I was about to say it. I said

of course I do

and I didn't. I just said it. And I know now that I worked the first step. I admitted something,

I surrendered a little and my brother rushed to my house. Funniest thing he said he before he hung out the phone, he said don't go anywhere.

I said, oh, OK, I was gonna move to that end of the couch in the spring, but you got plans.

So he came over and he brilliantly 12 step me and I maybe we'll get into that tomorrow. But so he said on the way back, he he, he said, I gave up. I surrendered. And I said, you know what, man out. You're right. I need to go to a a We're sitting on a lifeguard stand at the beach. And he said, dude, you're not going to a A, you're going to a hospital.

And I looked him right in the eye and totally seriously, I said, I can't do that. I'm busy,

and I thought I was busy. Any of you guys in the back row too busy to go to the hospital, Gracie? I know, right? Right. And 30 days of not sitting on the couch and not answering the phone and not paying my bills seemed like a long time

because that's what I was busy doing.

But May 16, 1993, the phone rang. It wasn't my brother, but I didn't know that. So I answered the phone thinking he's taking me to rehab.

And it was a woman who I used to be able to say I didn't know who it was, but I met her at a party three years ago,

18 years, 19 years later. And she said your daughter was born today.

And I ran to find my car and wearing what I'd woken up on the floor with, I had a T-shirt on that had a Big Gulp and I'd fallen backwards and passed out on a Big Gulp. So I was stuck to my back. I had OR scrubs on and flip flops. I was all dressed up to go to the maternity ward and meet my child and who I had forgotten about. And I found my car in AMC and I took the tickets off the front of the car and threw them in the back seat. And I drove to the wrong hospital. I drove to the hospital where I

because I'm selfish and self-centered

and that's where babies come from.

And then I went and put my head on the steering wheel and I realized where they were being where they were. And I drove to the right hospital and I ran up to the room. And I so wish this story were different. I so wish I could tell you that I ran and found them and I had an awakening and I saw the beauty of it, but I didn't prepare myself for what was happening. And I ran into the hospital room and Anna jumped up and she looked really weird. Has anybody ever seen anyone who's just had a baby? They look like a Picasso. Like their eyes are on the wrong side of their nose and their boobs are like

Willow trees. And but I can also tell you that she looked more beautiful than I'd ever seen her look. She had a light coming out of her and she was breathtakingly beautiful. And I was ugly and filthy and dirty and it was so loud in my head because she looks so great. And I thought she was going to hug me. And I didn't want that to happen. And she ran over and stopped before she hugged me. And she pulled out this baby out of a little glass rectangular box named Phoebe Rose.

And she handed me Phoebe Rose. And I looked at Phoebe Rose. She was equally beautiful and pure and innocent and perfect. And I was worse than when I looked at Anna. And I wanted to get home and put that gun in my mouth. That's how I felt the day I met my child.

So I ran out of that hospital praying that those two people would never see me again, heading home to shoot myself. And my brother was sitting on my porch with a suitcase in his hand and say, get in the car. I packed your stuff,

thank God,

and I told him my daughter was born and he didn't ask me how she was, what her name was, if she was healthy. He just looked at the ground in sadness because he thought I was going to die.

And we went to rehab and that's what it was like. And what happened was I got home and I 30 days later, my brother drops me off and he said, hey, go to a meeting. And I lied and said that's what I was going to do because who's going to go to a meeting? I've been in a hospital for 30 days. I'm going to go see my mom. I'm going to go see my daughter. I'm going to get a job. I got a lot to do. I'm 30 days sober. I'm invincible, I'm bulletproof. I went through all the steps in the hospital

and I walked up to my door

and open the door and somebody handed me a beer.

It wasn't a beer, it was a course.

And they, you guys are from New Orleans, That's not a beer. And, and they were doing all sorts of drugs at my house. And I backed out of that house and I put that beer on the curb and I ran to an, a, a meeting. And I'll tell you honestly why I did that. I did not have a moment of grace. I did not have, well, maybe I did. I did not have a foundation of recovery. I did not have a relationship with a higher power. I had 30 days, man, and that's all I had.

I had no respect of my friends or my peers. Everyone wanted to kill me. I had debt everywhere. I couldn't trust myself to make the right decision. I'm not giving up the one thing I had on those guys. So I ran to a pay phone and I called Alcoholics Anonymous and that's what happened. I got very involved very early through the Grace. I went to meetings where we didn't celebrate the birthdays. We celebrated fifth steps. I went to a step study, so I wanted to do a fifth step. I went to meetings where I got my sponsor and he directed me

meetings. I ended up going, this is embarrassing to say because my son's in the room, but I ended up going to almost exclusively men's stag meetings because I was at a mixed meeting at noon in the backroom at the club. And there's a girl sitting next to me and she had a men's suit vest on and nothing underneath it, which I noticed right away. And she had these little khaki pants on. She had this little short blonde hair. And she's about 22 years old, which I was about 31 years old. So it was perfect. And

I looked at her and she shared and said

God I'm 16 days sober and all I can think about is sex and chalk. So then I looked at nothing else but her.

And then it came to me a few people later and I said my name is Matthew. And I thought I'd be funny and turn to her and said, and I'm made of chocolate.

And my sponsor grabbed me and said, we're going to go to the Monday Night Men stack.

And that's How I Met these guys. And just to wrap this up, what happened? I got really involved. I went to lots and lots of panels. I did the steps straight through without stopping and without hesitation because that's what I thought everybody did. I met people that said, we're going to do this, we'll pick you up. We're going to do this, we'll pick you up. When I went to court, they were standing there with me. I had a beautiful life unfold. I met a beautiful woman.

I married her. I raised Phoebe. Phoebe's exactly as old as I am sober.

She's going to be 23 this May.

I had two more children. We traveled all over the world. We had just an amazing life. And that's all I need to tell you right now. Thanks.

That's right,

Bill. Alcoholic.

Did anybody cry?

I've been listening to him for years and I just, God, you know, that's a pathetic story.

Mines a bit different.

Basically, I was a surfer and a biker and a tough guy,

and I never went to the beach.

My motorcycle rarely ran,

afraid to fight,

but I looked really good at a Chrome Nazi helmet for a hat and a primary chain for a belt and black greasy Levi's and big black booth with chains around them. I've got tattoos all over me but I had a clip on earrings. I didn't want to hurt myself.

I think that's pretty much all you really need to know.

That's the story, really. And

one of the things I like to talk about a little bit is

every story that you hear,

whether it's somebody just sharing in a meeting or giving a talk, usually what will happen is the speaker will talk about how long before he or she was ever sober. They didn't feel part of they felt separate, odd and geeky and out of place and couldn't throw the ball. Couldn't you know, there's, there's something about it. I mean, we're, we have cute ways of expressing it. Like, you know, the aliens had dropped me off and I'm waiting

for the mothership to return, you know, that kind of stuff. And we talk about that like it's some kind of unique experience. Like we're the only ones that have that. Like it's an aspect of alcoholism.

And I don't know, I've, I've had experience at raising kids and I think all kids feel that way. It's part of growing up. You know, when they, prior to puberty, you know, I mean, they start stretching their muscles, they start pushing the envelope,

you know, and they realize that you don't understand nor will you ever understand what's going on with them. You just randomly tell them they can't do things and it, they just get pissed, you know, 'cause they want to do stuff and you won't let them, you know, So you are clearly not on their side, you know, and they start pushing. Then they hit puberty and it escalates. It can get really interesting, you know, And then somewhere along the line they begin to grow out

of that. They get a little more mature, they deepen emotionally, relationships start to smooth out. Somewhere kind of in there early to mid 20s, they kind of mellow out and they start making a life for themselves.

We skipped that part.

You know, we medicated through that whole thing. The difference between US and these other kids is we never grew up

and we walk into Alcoholics Anonymous and we're going to grow up now. And the chances of us doing that and looking good are really slim because we're a little late. And

the other part of the story that's similar

between all most all speakers is we have a couple of drinks and that feeling goes away.

I mean, to me, there's two aspects to alcoholism. One is, and I don't know that everybody has this is it. There's a physiological aspect to it. There's, there's a part of it that when we drink, it sets something off and we have no control over when or if we're going to stop and how much we're going to consume. You know, that is very real. It certainly is real with me and in my family. I can see my father's side is just riddled with alcoholism.

And the other aspect of it is that we get a bang out of it that other people don't get. I mean, if they got the kick out of it that we got, they would definitely drink more, you know, And I think it, we have a spiritual awakening. We have a life changing experience. I mean, that feeling goes away. We clearly get smarter, better looking, taller, more buff. You know, it's like

everything changes

and then we go about the business of, for however long, chasing that and chasing it and chasing it and chasing it.

One of the things that you'll hear when people tell this aspect of feeling separate is they'll use a term called alcoholic thinking

as if there is such a thing,

You know? I mean, you repeat stuff around here often enough. People just pick it up like, oh, yeah, it's on page 34, you know, It's like, you know, you look for it. I've not really found it. You know,

my wife and I were over in Europe somewhere, standing on this beautiful coastline, and we're overlooking this view, and it's just gorgeous. And she says to me, you know, if we smoked a joint right now, it would enhance this experience. I think that could very well be alcoholic thinking.

I mean, there is some truth to it. You know, who else wants to and enhance an already very enhanced experience? You know, we can change our reality. We have a desire for that kind of thing,

and the professional community never uses that term. Alcoholic thinking. You know what they say about us? They say that we are emotionally immature and we hear that and we just go, no,

I have special thinking,

I have alcoholic thinking and it's never going away. And you need to consider that when you're dealing with me.

I don't. I just think we're emotionally immature. You know, I got here at 37 and on a good day, I had the emotional development of a 16 year old. And this kid was not an honor student.

He's not the one that's mature beyond his years. You know, he's the one with the problem with authority.

I start drinking it, seriously drinking, at around 14, maybe 15 years old. Somewhere in there

I finally got really hammered and I started chasing it. By the time I'm 17, I'm a bad drunk in high school and I'm walking around carrying a gun and nobody's looking for me, you know? I mean, I'm a white kid from Palos Verdes, you know, I'm a middle class dude and there's no gangs where I come from. I don't have any idea where this came from, but Gangster was really intriguing to me

and I pursued that and chased it.

At 17, I'd already been to jail. You couldn't talk to me. I was just, if you had any authority at all, it just pissed me off for no apparent good reason, you know? And that followed me, has followed me through most of my life, well into sobriety. That feeling of the rules just don't apply to me. You can't tell me what to do.

And you'll hear guys in a, a, you know, 30-40 years sober say,

you know, don't tell Alcoholics what to do. We don't like to be told what to do. Well, you know, when you're 14 or 15, that can be kind of appropriate, maybe even cute when you're 40. It's just stupid. You know, I mean, part of life is there's always someone telling us what to do. And probably what, 98% of the time, it's probably pretty good advice. You know, it's like, don't cross the street when there's cars coming,

you know, I'll show them. You know, it's like, what is that? I have? No, I think that's emotional immaturity.

I think that's all it is. It's not some deep profound neurotic problem, you know.

So at 17 on this bad drunk at 22 years old, I'm in a mental institution.

I needed a rest.

No, I mean, it was the 60s. It was exhausting.

There was a lot to do and it all needed to be done. And you know,

you know, I was in Golden Gate Park during the Summer of Love.

You know, I'm sorry I missed the experience.

I mean, I was physically in places where all that was happening and I truly kind of wasn't there. You know, I was, I was getting hammered. That's what I was doing. And there'd be a March about something, so I'd get in line in March. I had no idea where the hell we were going or but everybody was going that way, you know. And I met a woman.

She had long brown hair and

large mammary glands.

She smiled at me.

No. And we went to Oregon to grow our own and

we had two babies, two kids. And at 20, and I'm at the time, I went to the mental institution, I'm running with an outlaw motorcycle gang. I'm sticking needles in my arm every day. I'm drinking like a fish. I'm not coming home to that family. They're on welfare. We lost a house and a couple of cars and jobs and we lost our souls, you know, and,

and I ended up in a mental institution. And

anybody else here been in a mental institution?

Well, that's pretty good.

There's probably some of you still out there going well. It really wasn't an institution.

They were just observing me.

I went back for a follow up. I kind of liked it.

The mental institution I was in was the Oregon State Mental Institution in Salem, OR, and it's where Ken Kesey worked when he wrote Cuckoo's Nest. They filmed that movie on the ward that I was on.

Now I'm not bragging,

but it's all I got.

This is the high point of the drunk a lot.

I've been up there doing conferences and stuff over time and some of the guys up there made me a shirt is one of my prized possessions. That says Oregon State Hospital alumni

and

God, I came back down to LA and my sober dad that got sober in 1954.

And when he died, grew up on top of all my other problems. I grew up in an AAA house. I don't recommend it.

You know, potlucks just kind of break out, you know, all of a sudden, you know, these guys are starting meetings and central offices and stuff. And I grew up in that environment.

So one thing I knew is I knew a A was OK, you know, because I knew the people. They were very close to Chuck Chamberlain and some of the people. And Clancy was the newcomer. And they all said he'd never make it, you know, and that kind of stuff. And they still say that.

And

he gave me a job in this machine shop in El Segundo and he let me sleep in his garage and I tried to clean up my act. 15 years after the Mentalist,

I got sober.

I could have very easily gotten sober at 22 or at 19 or 20, you know, I mean, I was ready. I had qualified already. And you know, today all the kids are coming in now and it's remarkable. You know, recovery is at all levels of our society now. You know, I've watched that. I was part of the like maybe the first big influx or second. You were fairly young in the late 70s

of all this people coming in, you know,

but I was 37, you know, I could have very easily gotten sober a lot earlier than that. But nobody ever talked to me about it that I can recall. You know, I don't know that I would have been receptive. It's got not even worse speculating on it,

but I met another woman, we got married, we had two kids,

and at 37 years old,

I lived in the house with this second wife and these two children. And I had no emotional connection to another living human being.

And I didn't know that I didn't know. I can't stand outside myself and have a separate experience and compare it to the one that I'm having to determine that there's anything wrong.

I don't think any of us know the depth of our self centeredness.

And

so on that particular day, which will be this coming Sunday,

March the 27th,

like any good gangster,

I called my mom

and she had been an Al Anon for 30 years by this time.

They are prepared

and they're ready and focused. She got there inside 1/2 an hour and she checked me into a place in Costa Mesa

called Starting Point and I spent 35 days in there.

I'm a product of the psychotherapeutic generation. I went to my first psychiatrist when I was 13 because of the rage. I just had horrible rage long before I ever started drinking and using or anything. I spent two tours of duty in the mental institution. I spent 2 1/2 years in Group therapy at one time. I've been to several other therapists and shrinks over the years.

So while I was in this hospital program, they made me wear a sign around my neck.

I had to make the sign. We made it in crafts. It's a little rectangular piece of cardboard with a string that went through it. And it said

I am not a counselor

because evidently there was some confusion about that. And

then they let me out.

They just let us out

like we're OK now, you know, go forth, multiply.

That's another thing I can, we can end alcoholism. We should not breed.

This is not a good gene pool here.

And umm,

and where do we end up when they let us out

here

A, a, the world's aftercare program? You know, I mean, the inmates are truly running the asylum

and we are the counselors. That's what we do. We said we counsel people, right? I mean, you stop and think about this. I've been married three times. I've been to a mental institution twice and people ask me for relationship advice.

I give it to him. I figure, hell, you can't hurt him. They're an A A, you know, I mean, this literally is the last house on the street. There's no referrals from A A, There's no place you go where you walk in and you say I'm from A, A, they sent me here.

This is it, you know? There's no Plan B, you know,

And we can go back to the old life. Lots of people do.

Some of them come back, you know, some don't. Some die. Some people get sober in church, you know, some people stop if they don't have the physiological aspect of it. I think some people just finally clean up their act. But for Alcoholics, this is it.

Now two things happen that I think are just lucky.

One is I just liked it.

I have no rational explanation for that other than I just got intrigued right away. I just think you're absolutely fascinating. I love the stories. You know, I remember driving home that first night after I went to a meeting and I went home and I thought, you know, this may not be so bad because if the Hermosa Beach, Illinois Club on Friday night, there was a meeting called The Gong Show.