The Fellowship of the Spirit conference in Queens, NY

This is Emma Palazzo. She has 15 months.

We have a great speaker tonight.

If you've never heard Chris, you're gonna have quite the experience. You know, I have. I'll give you Chris Raymond from I forget what part of Texas, Texas in England, Texas.

I just hate those long winded introductions.

He caught me mid P.

So all of you that come up and shake my hand afterwards

anyway.

Oh y'all come on in.

Everybody in one piece. I don't know about y'all. I'm wore out

availa being run through a ringer. I tell you my name is Chris Rammer. I'm a very grateful recovered alcoholic.

Got sober November 13th 1987 and for that I'm dazed and amazed. I'm a cat that could not not drink And and here I am 18 years sober.

How cool is this? I got to thank, as always, this is my third time I get to come to Fellowship of the Spirit New York and, and visit with you guys. I was a Saturday night speaker five years ago. And I'm I'm honored to get a chance to come up here and do this again. And it's so overwhelming to get to see so many of you guys that that I met five years ago and and you're still alive in New York. And it's this is a good thing. And

but I want to thank Barton, Sal and Sal and Denise and Rick and all the other knuckleheads that had anything to do with putting this on. I mean, the work that goes into this, just making coffee for this crowd,

it just freaks me out. And I'm so honored to know these people and and be buds with them. Food was outstanding as usual. But, you know, you could travel all over Texas and not eat like that, you know, and we got it at a conference. It freaks me out. I mean, I've had so much rubber chicken in my life at conferences, it's not even funny, you know? And here we go. This is going to be a bear talking to this like this. This will be like this. This will be like this.

I'm going to look at y'all for just a few minutes. That's the last time I'm going to do this.

I guess they could be over here naked and on fire and I wouldn't see them.

So I got some of these big guys that are watching my back for me. If they start rushing me from this side y'all give me the heads up.

Y'all know exactly where I'm coming from. So many of y'all I have emailed and talked to for years. I just got to meet some cats and from up north in here and my buddies, my this is from Texas. We can say anything.

My buddies from France and Simon and I mean how cool Daniel and and the little Iceland guys are here again and I just.

I

it's just cool, that's all I can say. It's just cool to names with faces and a lot of little Connecticut knuckleheads and I, I can't even hardly pronounce it here. I know four or five people from Connecticut now. This is cool. I don't know. I

I want to thank Tom and Juanita. What I got to hear today was quite enjoyable. I got stretched and pulled and I.

And I'm going to be on an air in an airport bright and early in the morning. And I'll miss Ed, but I've heard him before and he's he's the

small, unobtrusive young man in the back and

he got he got in the front seat of Barts car last night and bit bit double. That's like God damn.

Big, I don't know, has this any other word? You ought to be in Texas, that's for sure, right. I just need a big old hat and bless you anyway. And I know you're going to do good. And I got to tell you, I enjoyed the service workshop we had today at at lunch. I thought that was it was excellent. I, I, I am such a service junkie. I don't get a chance to get involved in it too much because I travel so much doing this. But if I ever get off the road, I'm going to get up to my neck at it because guys, the future of Alcoholics Anonymous is in the hands of the service junkies, the cats that can that can do this.

Any of y'all. I know some of you, it just bores spit less, but it is, it is we have I just need, I might as well go ahead and get started in this. You know, Alcoholics Anonymous is up to their ass in in problems folks. And it and it all stems from us getting away from our primary purpose. And, and we've got so many mixed messages out there. And, and if we're ever going to get this thing real back in, it's it's going to be

at at a national level. We're we're going to have to have some people at the top of this heap. I know we're supposed to be at the top of the heap. That's

so not true.

We're going to need these cats and so anybody that wants to get involved that's that's please thank you so much for doing it every GSR that's thank you honored to know you. I you don't mind if I take this off do you? I seem I seem to not be able to. I know

I don't really

That probably didn't do anything for you, but Mr. Winky liked it. I,

I, I y'all should have seen me drinking. I couldn't keep my clothes on, that's a fact.

I just walk in and start taking them off and

I,

I get, I get a bad rap sometimes and a lot of y'all heard me talk about this before, but you know that Chris is so controversial and Chris is this Christian. I got to tell you guys. I'm a member of alcoholic synonymous in good standing. I, I, I'm a member of Ingram solution group where I hold a weekly commitment. I have a sponsor and have forever and

I sponsor a lot of guys and I contribute 7 tradition and I am just like everybody else in this room and I travel a bit more than some of you. So what you know the most controversial thing I ever did as I married a Yankee. That's

Patty's here and she's,

if you've never tried it, you jump in there, brother. Yankees are good. You know, I don't know what to tell you.

My dad would be turning over in his grave if he knew that. But he was one of those Southern boys. If it's north of the Mason Dixon, it ain't even worth talking about. But even but he never got came here. I mean, I just I'm so it'll take us a week to just come down from this trip. Just the energy here in New York and you know the just the we got to play on the subways yesterday and the day before we went to a Yankee game and and got to watch the Yankees whipped the butts off Toronto and it was wonderful. It was wonderful and

you're right, I know

and and the Mets are good too. And,

but, and I got a chance to go to the Guggenheim, got to met a buddy in the program over over Friday morning and went, got to go to the museum And Jackson Pollock had a had an exhibit there. And he's one of my all time faves abstract artists. And, and he's exhibit through the 29th of September. And it was just what a cool thing to be able to, to, to see that I knew that Jackson Pollock had died in a car wreck. I didn't know he was an alcoholic. And we got some information from this. And this is I sat there and got a little, little teary eyed, just like I am now thinking

one of the world's most. I mean, he was so out there in the in the 40s and 50s, he was just so out there, you know, and I know why now. I mean, he was,

I just felt a real kinship to this guy. You know, it's the coolest folks. I'm not controversial. I love Alcoholics Anonymous and I, I, I'm, I'm here to tell you, I'm not here to pick a fighter or, or, or or

guys.

Oh, I'm not. I'm not,

but I'm here to share. I'm here to share my experience, my experience. And the problem is, is that my experience is going to be different than some of y'all's experience and some of y'all that have heard me speak know where I'm coming from here. If you're one of these cats that just put the plug in the jug and one day at a time you've stayed sober and well, how damn great for you. You know, this is good stuff. You know, it's just, it's just not my experience. And I just, I want to share my experience. I get thousands of emails from people that can relate to what I'm saying

and I get a lot of emails from people that can't relate to what I'm saying. And I don't know, it's like somebody said at the service workshop today, we all get on the same page here that all of us are going to be on different pages sometimes and we all got here in a different path. And whatever worked for you, I'm so proud of you. I'm a big book thumper. What? I'm seven years in and out of Alcoholics Anonymous trying to get sober. And I finally landed in a room full of people that loved me enough to just open the book, qualify me, show me how to work the steps, guide me to a spiritual experience and

has been wonderful ever since.

And, and, and I know it works.

I work at a treatment center, we get 1000 patients through their year and I know it works. Those that come to that hospital and leave and do what we ask them to do, which is work the 12 steps, get a sponsor, they get sober, stay sober. I don't care what other issues they've got. They stay sober and the cats that don't

don't

they want to blame everybody.

I think the first thing going into this, before I tell a little bit about my story, we've got how can I put this?

There's a lot of hard drinkers out there that look just like Alcoholics.

My friend Danny up north of here says

alcohol is your problem. Then detox is as tough as it's going to get

you with me. If alcoholism is your problem,

the battle is just beginning

and I think a lot of y'all can relate to that. And some of you can't relate to that because you're not alcoholic,

you're a fruitcake.

And there's nothing wrong with being a fruitcake.

I like fruitcakes. But I'm just, but I'm just saying what we've done, what we've done. Let me, I'm watching the clock, OK? Because I'm not going to go over tonight. I'm going to. I'm going to I

No, I'm not either. I can't do that. You've been through enough.

I In 1971,

one of the last things that President Nixon did on his way out the door was pass a piece of legislation called the Hughes Act. Some of y'all are familiar with that. Hughes Act

basically acknowledged alcoholism as a disease at a government level, which allowed treatment centers to open on every street corner. Insurance companies got real excited about this. Oh, this is good. We're going to make a bunch of money here. And they did for a short period of time. The problem was that a lot of these people that were open in treatment centers didn't have a a clue.

Five years. I'm better on the cussing too. Y'all Give me, give me credit where credit's due.

Screw you.

Progress rather than perfection. OK, but here

we got, we got, we got this thing called the Hughes Act and we got treatment centers opening on every street corner. And what happened was that through the 70s and 80s, we had thousands upon thousands of cats coming in insurance companies paying like slot machines back, back in the day when I got sober, it was like 40,000 plus to go to a just a 28 day treatment center and insurance companies were paying slot time after time after time. The problem was that a lot of these cats weren't alcoholic. You became alcoholic if you had an insurance policy.

Before that you were just a hard drinker, but now you're an alcoholic. So we got a lot of cats coming into the fellowship and I know this makes some of y'all uncomfortable. You're going to sit here and think,

hmm, maybe I'm not

and I'm going to say good for you. It's high time you thought about this. You follow us because here's where the controversy comes in. A lot of these cats came into the fellowship. I've said it from a million podiums. Women are damn good looking. Coffee is great. What the hell? I'll stay here. Better than the Rotary Club, better than any any. I mean, it's just the bomb. You go come in and talk about your stuff and everything. It's just I'll stay. The problem is, is that those people don't have to work the 12 steps to get sober.

All they get to do is go to meetings. They're the same buckaroos.

They're they're the same buddy

that are out there. Tell it saying just go to meetings and don't drink.

See they're killing people with that crap. But I'm controversial.

I'd have never understood this.

I agree with what some other cats have said today. Everybody's welcoming this fellowship. But I think you need to know your truth. And I think if you're a newcomer in this room, if you're early in sobriety, you need to pay attention to the fact that there are a lot of people out there that are not alcoholic carrying a big book, talking, talking the talk, just like Juanita was talking about talking the talk, but not walking the walk. See, because the book says if you can stay sober on a non spiritual basis, you're not one of us.

If you could just stay sober today, one day at a time and you don't have to work the 12 steps and you don't have to have a spiritual experience. I'm, I'm sorry, I didn't say it. The book says it. You're not an alcoholic, you're not dying of a fatal progressive illness. And I am and a lot of you guys in this room that I know are. And that's why I get so rigid about this. That's why I get so passionate about this because the message that can interest the alcoholic like of our variety is the book says it's got to have some depth and weight

and this has depth and weight. This works. I've never known anybody coming to this fellowship and work these 12 steps and not get sober. I've watched a lot of people come in and work. I'm half assed and not stay sober. This is an individual program. You can work this program any way you want to. That's not what my book says. I don't see how we can say that, Ed we sit there and reread how it works. Half measures avail is nothing, right? We stood at the turning point. Yeah. When we start talking about God, we need the spiritual experience. AB CS We couldn't.

Power could relieve us. God could and would if he were sought. And then we come in here and tell the newcomer, just easy. Does it take your time to work the steps? You didn't get this sick overnight. You're not going to get well overnight

sharing opinions. Everybody's got an opinion except we got this big book that we got 71 plus years. You know, clear, clear, concise message.

So

what a build up to say what I know, what a build up to say. If I upset you, I'm so sorry going in the door. I don't want to do that. It's not my intention. Somebody got up in Minnesota not long ago,

some M state. I forget what I was

said. I think you'd like to be controversial. And I'm telling you, I lay in bed at night.

No, I, I don't want to upset anybody and I don't want to come down hard on anybody. Life's tough enough without having somebody in your face. But but you know,

I watch, it's back to my experience, folks. People watched being Alcoholics Anonymous for seven years and the and the best they could come up with was keep coming back 90 meetings in 90 days.

Guys, if you don't hear anything else I say tonight, I'm going to get on a tear here. But if you don't get here, anything else I say tonight, please hear this. And I, and I'm, you could take exception with it if you want to, but I, but I want to make sure everybody gets to hear me

going to meetings and just not drinking will not treat alcoholism.

I, I love meetings. I go to a bunch of meetings. That's where I go find new guys to work with. But if you think sitting in a meeting and not drinking one long, painful day at a time is going to, is going to do it for you, you, you, you've been given the wrong information and we got too many people. That's where my heart goes out to. I don't worry about the little bozos that snuck it under the door and can do it in any way they want. Managed to stay sober,

have a nice life. I worry about the poor guy that really wants to get sober that sits in our fellowship and in our sister fellowship of NA and CA and CM all the other 12 step fellowships and sit in our rooms day after day. Bone powder dry, miserable suffering from the spiritual malady.

And they don't. It's a needless, it's a needless suffering. They don't have to do that, but they yearn for somebody. Give them permission to get excited about this program and do something different.

We got groups in Texas where if you bring a big book in the room, they'll stop you at the door and take your big book. We don't want you to bring big books in here.

We'll move to Texas. I don't know what to tell you. I, I, it's, it's, it drives me nuts. It drives me nuts. Everybody wants to share opinions and I just want to share my experience, please. I grew up in the Hill Country and down in Texas, down near San Antonio. Thanks, Hunt on my name tags and stuff. I, I actually live in a little town called Ingram, Texas and it's about 6 miles from Hunt where the hospital is. I work for a, for a treatment center down there. It's been there for 35 years and I've been blessed to spend the last 13 years at that.

Hospital and get a chance to do big book with the patients and in return I spend my days toiling on the phone doing clerical work for that hospital. It's a great trade off as far as I'm concerned because that's where I got to meet so many of y'all. Thank God for 800 numbers and e-mail. You know it's just I love you and but my dad was an alcoholic somebody jammed me a couple weeks ago for calling my dad an alcoholic God damn it he died of alcoholism. I don't know what to tell you, I.

I don't know. I mean, alcohol killed him. I don't know what to tell you. He died drunk.

I've got an identical twin brother that's just like me. Some of y'all know Myers and the evil twin and

and

I've got a little sister that's a year and three months younger than me. He's never had a problem with alcohol. I've got a half sister that's I mean, they freaked me out. You know, they're the kind they'll take that beer and be peeling the label and peeling the label and I finally lose my are you going to drink that or not

to you to you just go up to Lisa. I've y'all heard me talk about go towards at least you want another drink. I'm buying. You want another drink? She's no I'm. I'm starting to feel it.

Me, me too. You want another drink or not,

it freaks me out. It's just bless her, she's never had a problem. That's where people it freaks me out when they they want to talk about alcoholism as being causal alcoholism and drug addiction folks is genetic. You're born that way and that's a fact folks. It's the verdict is in these people that

somebody sent me this e-mail.

This freaks me out. I got to read it to you. Some of y'all will be amused by this, and some of you'll hate it,

but you'll know that our buddy Mel. Mel G

Mel got his butt in trouble, you know, got caught in another DWI and he's in the ringer again, right? And so this, so this guy, there's this great big article, but there's an excerpt from it. And this, this this idiot from this treatment center out in California, it's a celebrity treatment center called, I'm not going to tell you it's in Malibu, though. So

I understand he's gone to this treatment center. This is this guy talking that that follows the Alcoholics Anonymous 12 steps. And I don't believe that's going to help him. This guy goes on and says, says, says we understand that alcoholism is not a disease and that it's causal. And he's saying exactly opposite what I'm saying. But this guy owns a treatment center and I drive a 15 year old Nissan pickup. I

I mean, who knew there there are only there are only four causes for alcoholism 4 Four causes that could possibly cause alcoholism. First, everyone is using alcohol excessively has a chemical imbalance

with this

good and information to have. Second is events of the past that we cannot cope with, like the loss of a loved one or something of that sort. Or it could be guilt.

Well, maybe we've done. Hold my calls please.

Or maybe we've done something years ago that we can't forgive ourselves for. 3rd is current condition like a like a failing marriage or a business of of

or business of lack of respect.

I've been telling people that for years. I just need more respect by God and I could do this thing.

I know that one of them is that he believes he has a disease of alcoholism, which is probably prevents him from looking for the real reason why he drinks. See, it's causal. It's a causal deal. We find out what the reason you with us, we treat that and then we recover and see, here's what I'm saying guys, there's a lot of people that that's true for. There's a lot of people that are situational drunks. You're in a bad marriage. Get out of the bad marriage. You're done. Here's my, my experience,

my truth. I, I was in the food business for years and, and went to Houston and got an apprenticeship program and,

and did great, made some money and it was OK. But I was battling this thing called depression. What I didn't understand was that I was suffering from the thing called a spiritual malady. And I wasn't going to find that out for 20 years. But, but that's what was kicking my butt and, and I'm, I'm not in a good spot. So I'm, I'm seeing a therapist and I'm trying to change everything about my life because I'm convinced that it's your fault that I'm drinking. Just like every alcoholic at doping I ever knew. It's your fault.

Oh God. And we're so disappointed. You know, we go to therapy

early mid 1970s, I was in therapy and for 10 year stint I was in and out of therapy religiously and benefited from every minute of it. I learned a lot of great stuff. But I was so disappointed every time we we chased another thread, you know, down another little mouse hole, you know, well, it's got to be your childhood of origin issues. Well, it's got to be your Mama. Well, it's got to be the girl. It's got to be the money. It's got to be the job you're in. It's got to be the town you're in Jesus. And every time we would chase that, we would come up with with what

for me,

more alcohol.

Guys, we've done this every time I've ever spoke. How many you guys drank a drug when life was great? Let the record show every stupid hand in a place.

How many of you drank a drug when everything was crap? Same hands. Y'all with us? Rich,

poor,

nice car, bicycle,

good looking woman,

Satan's sister,

and we

all laugh about it, but everybody wants to talk about this stuff nonstop and it drives me to distraction. If you're an alcoholic. And that's why I'm so into this thing of qualifying the alcoholic, let's find out. Because if his problem is really these other things, let's get into a good therapist. Let's get him to do some good work around this stuff and then he could go out and be a normal individual. He doesn't have to do this. I don't want him in the fellowship if they don't have to do this because all they're doing is killing people with their crap.

Makes sense?

Early 80s, I married. I finally settled down. I figured that would help me and

like none of y'all have ever done that.

And I'm and I'm married and it's not any better and I'm still drinking and I've picked up some side issues, outside issues and I'm combining it and I'm just, I'm going nuts. And and little domestic disturbance dropped me right straight in a in a therapist couch again. And this lady was a low paid counselor with but she had a, she had a licensed chemical dependency license with her other stuff. And so she said, Chris, I don't know about all this other stuff. Yeah, I see that you've been in therapy for 10 years and I see that you're you're taking it this time three or four

this and anti that. And you know what I'm saying? I've taken handfuls of pills and everything but Viagra, and

I'd have taken that too if they'd had it then,

but not today. I'm baby

I,

I know. I even shot myself sometimes guys, I don't.

But anyway,

she says I see her taking all this medication and you've done all this therapy and stuff and I see this and I appreciate everything you're going through, Chris. But it sounds to me like I have this. I could be wrong, but it sounds to me like your garden variety drunk. And I mean, I was humiliated, you know, I mean, I don't mind. I don't, I don't mind being borderline schizophrenic, but I mean, I I don't, I mean, that rolls off the tongue a lot nicer than an alcoholic, you know, as my dad was an alcoholic and I'm not like that. I don't. I'm not doing what I'm my dad's doing. And so

I went to Alcoholics Anonymous grudgingly

and, and walked in the doors and they said, do you have a problem with alcohol? And I said yes. And they said welcome. And I remember sitting down, you know, and going, shoot, well, that was easy. Piece of cake. I'm in. I'm in the door. I'm in. You know Jesus help us.

Wish I could skip this part, but you know I'm not

my truth. Maybe not your truth, my truth, my truth. They went around the rooms and they said we got a newcomer in here. Let's tell them how we got here. Now I understand I'm a functioning alcoholic guys. I've never missed a day's work. One drinking.

And they went around and they told all the little war stories about how many DWI they had and how many liquor stores they robbed and blah blah blah blah blah blah. And I can't relate. I'm making a middle note. I'm smiling. Oh,

you know, I just, I'm making a little mental check. Says that's not me.

That's not me. I blacked out. I pissed my pants. Check, check, check. It's not me.

I understand why they were doing it. Identification. But you see folks, that identification was supposed to been done in a 12 step call. I'm sitting in a damn meeting. You've got my attention. I walked in on my own volition.

Now can you tell me how to get sober? Can you help me with some hope here? Nope. We're going to scare you a while longer.

And people get crankily about this. They all they hear from my talk is you think our stories are not important. Never said that from a podium ever. Never will. Our stories, folks, are what makes us who we are. And in a 12 step call, it is invaluable. But guys, sitting in a meeting, you're pissing in the wind, you're wasting your time. We need to start talking about how we got a spiritual experience. Let's start talking about this God thing. That's what we're supposed to be doing.

I left. I can't relate.

Get drunk, come back,

scare me out again. Guys, when we're not telling war stories,

we're problem solving.

Now, guys, I don't know what to tell you about this because everybody's entitled to come talk about their day and I do. I talk a lot about my day. Talk to Ed going to drive over. We talked, we visited. That's what this fellowship. I mean, how many times today did I hear about people's lives and what they're doing and how the kids are and all the stuff. But you know one hour a day

that we have a chance to talk about something really cool called a spiritual experience. Why is it that we always end up talking about your crappy divorce one more time?

Why is that? I get emails all over the world. Everybody hates it. I hate all that pissing and moaning to meetings. I hate it. I hate it, I hate it. But we still do it,

and my question to us is why

meetings were never intended for that, The Big Book says. We set aside one night a week for the newcomer to bring their problems, and I think that's a stellar idea. One night a week?

Why do we have to do it seven dots a week?

Why? Or you've got a noon meeting and you've got the same 10 or 15 guys in there over and over. You all just want to sit around and talk about your day. What's wrong with that? Nothing. That's great. But if you've got a new Comer in there, guys, and you think that you've got the right to come in there and talk about your freaking weed eater one more time, you're wrong. You're wrong.

You don't.

We talked about the tradition. Some today traditions tell us that we have one

one primary purpose. What's that carry the message stays over carry the message of hope back to the newcomer one primary purpose. You know, we I don't know about that. I was talking to Tom when we were we were over in New Mexico State conference and and got a chance to smoke a butt with Tom out there and we were talking lots about this. You know, it's like it's like I don't know about that anywhere here, but in Texas, you know, you come in little crack addict sneaks into a a you know, and his lips are all burnt up. He's looks like

you can see him coming the door geeking out, you know, you know, looking out the windows. Oh, Jesus, look at this. The whole big window, you know, and he's

miss free, but we'll see him in the meetings. And what we'll do is we'll stop. Buddy, Come here, let's go. We got this thing over here called Cocaine Anonymous. You know, let's let me, let's help you get connected to some CA guys, you know, in a fellowship that might be able to help you with a little geeking. Because none of us understand the geeking. You know, we don't.

You're you're scaring us.

Let's see if nobody has a problem with that ever is a singleness of purpose. Kick the drunk, kick the dope friends out. I don't have a problem but but but on the flip side though, but you can come into a meeting and talk about anything you want. How does your divorce

to a 17 year old kid in here drinking himself spitless? How is your divorce different than than a crack addict coming in talking about crack addiction?

It's not different. What ties us all together? The young adults in here and the old geezers in here. We got to give birthday chips out 31 years. Who's the captain? Gee, Gee, I just didn't know you could get that old. I mean this is

no but what thank you for sticking, but what ties us together. Our experiences are all different guys. Some of y'all talk funny and some of you,

some of you we need an interpreter for. I mean, it's just what it's just bless your heart. We all come from different paths. But guys, what ties us all together, what ties us all together is that we got a common problem and it's treatable by a common solution. And that's what we need to stick to because you don't know when the guys going to come in needing to hear the solution. I hear somebody. Oh, I don't worry about it.

This. This group runs them off and alcohol will run them back in. That's not true.

We watched thousands of them die. We may have one shot at this cat and you think it's your God-given right to come in the meeting and talk about your crappy day. It's it's not. What does it say on page 62? I said I wasn't going to do this Patty. By God, I am. What does it say on page 62? What does it say on page 62? It says that selfishness and self sitteredness. That's the root of our problem. Didn't say alcohol, didn't say the cocaine. Selfish and self sitteredness is what's killing Alcoholics and addicts.

That's what kills me 18 years ago and 18 years sober today, that's still the noose around my neck. Selfish and self centeredness. And the only way I know to get away from that, the only way I know to get around that is to go is to get out of my head and help you. And I got to say this in case I forget any of you cats that are not doing 12 step work. You have missed the gravy. You have missed the boat to sit down across the table from somebody and start talking about a spiritual experience and watch their little eyes wake up. And I tell you, it's a it's,

it's contagious and you'll do it once and you'll never want to stop. And the whole time that you were giving it away, God was steady taking care of your crap. That's been my experience.

We've painted this picture that some of us are going to be great at working with others and some of us are not. That's a cop out, folks. Every single one of us in Bills story, it says that each of us in our own way are going to carry the message. God, I'm not going to carry the message like me. I carry the message like me. It's going to reach some people, Tom and Juanita, they're going to reach some people in their own way, same message, but in their own way. And that's what makes this so powerful because that's how that's how God works with us. He'll drop a knucklehead

right next to you that knows everything about your life. How did he know that

it's just the way it works. I'm still waiting to the day for God to send me somebody that's got has never had a woman problem and it has lots of money. I have not,

I have never sponsored a guy like that yet, you know, they're always broken, just horny all the time and.

There's nothing wrong with that.

In 1987,

I'm done with AAI have been, I've done the 90 meetings in 90 days and I can't put together 30 days sober and I'm watching you guys pick up chips and I can't pick up a 30 day chip. I I because I have every intention of not drinking. And the further away I get from that drink, the more uncomfortable I get in my skin and I find some excuse to get pissed off or to get frustrated, to get bored. And I say I can't do this and my head says

it's thousand. You could probably smoke a joint.

Yeah, that's the ticket. Pot. Hate pot always. If I hated pot don't like the way it makes me feel well y'all heard me 1000 times. These little dope friends in here that like pot. I Who wants a drug that makes you horny and paranoid all at the same time?

It's terrible. Just walk around rubbing all day long.

I just

but my head will say I can't drink but I can smoke pot. Now we're hearing the guys name you could you?

You can't. Too many of us have tried it. You eat the sleep medication, guys. Our experience shows you may get away with it for a while, but eventually you'll wake up thirsty.

We got a hospital full of people that lost their sobriety. Long term sobriety around that stupid sleep medication. Let me run something by you. Could it possibly be that you're having trouble sleeping because too much coffee?

Or how about this? How about just a big old dose of guilt?

My credit cards are all maxed out and I'm cheating on my wife. And I don't understand why I can't sleep

because when I got sober, God gave me a thing back that I thought I'd lost. It's called a conscious, you know, and you start compromising that and you're going to sabotage yourself. You know this. You clean up the mess, you work the steps, you get back on a spiritual playing field here and and all of a sudden you sleep like a baby. That's my experience. That's my experience,

but I'm coming apart in 1987. I'm working for my twin brother. Thank God for any good families in here. If it hadn't been for my brother, I'd been back on the street and I'd spent time in and out again while I was going to Alcoholics Anonymous. I spent time eating out of dumpsters in Houston, TX and, and, and it was one of those you eat out dumpsters in Houston, TX one month and the next month you've got this great high paying chef's job living in a penthouse in Houston. It's like, you know, we're up, down, up, down, up, down, but it's gradual descent into hell and the depression's kicking my butt and I just.

I left work one day, picked up a stack of return checks in the mailbox and went and got a 12 pack and went home and opened those checks and realized I'd bankrupted another account. I'm 35 years old and I'm psychotic. You all know that I'm insane. I got kidney damage and I got liver damage. I don't know that yet. I'm suspect because I'm puking blood that there's a problem.

I got about 40 lbs on me and it's all right here. I'm slow. I, I, I am dying physically, but mentally I am. There's a lot great line in the book in the doctor's opinion says our problems pile up on us and they become astonishingly difficult to solve. You know, you all heard me talk about this is this little decisions.

What do I wear? Chris? You have 4 shirts in the closet, you know, and I'm sitting,

you don't know what I'm talking about. Red 1, green one, all four through the loom T-shirts. They're all saying red 1, greed 1, red 1 green. I just, I can't, I can't decide. I can't decide which way to go to work. I can't decide what to have for lunch. I can't decide. Do I feed the cat now, the ferret now or do I? I don't. Everything is piling up, guys. I owe everybody in the world. The girls gone. The the hopes gone. The dreams gone,

I'm going to have to go to my sister-in-law tomorrow and borrow money

to put in my account to pay for these checks. I'm an adult and I can't even keep a little crappy checking account going and I'm so ashamed of myself. I've talked about this from a million podiums folks. You, you tell somebody you're going to stay sober

and mean it with everything in your heart. I know some of us have just blown smoke. I've done that too. But there are times that I went to a significant other, just like Tom was talking about, says I'm never going to do this again. And then and then we do it. You know, when you get every time you do it, you just get a little more hopeless and a little more hopeless and you let them down a little bit more. You can't even look yourself in the mirror. You just. It is, unless you've been there, that absolute state of.

Spiritless

you just just lose your your willingness to fight your willingness to you just