The Ultimate Weekend in Morgantown, IN

You all are just some incredible, incredible human beings, and I just feel incredibly privileged. 2 things. I so I'm just kinda curious. Okay. I've also had tons of female sponsors.

I'm I'm I'm kind of like a a sponsor slut, meaning no. I'm kidding. What what it what it is is this. Is when I and I didn't really get get into this too much this weekend, but, usually, usually when I give my pitch, I talk about this. You know, I was 2 years absent from alcohol when I got introduced to the big book.

And the man who qualified me and the man who, 12 step me is a man who was visiting from California, and he was doing the last workshop that he was doing, in, you know, in in the Western Hemisphere, and he was going to live in India for 5 years with the Dalai Lama. And I'm in this meeting dying, and my sponsor and I decided to go to this meeting. It was a big book meeting. It was called Heritage Message. I'm not Heritage Message.

Sorry. Consolution. My sponsor at the time decided to go to this meeting to judge these big book numbers. And at the time, I was actually contemplating suicide because I know I couldn't drink. I had a small daughter, and I I was asking for my alcohol.

And I was, you know, planning who was gonna take care of my child. I was actually writing out a book, and my father calls me and says, let's go hate the big book numbers. And I'm like, sure. You know? Because I I didn't know about the book.

All I knew is those people walk in there, and they were all they look like they they all, like, look the same, and they all said the same thing. They're like, god separated me from alcohol, and I wanted to punch them in the face. And they all, like, did the same stuff. It was like it was like if I called the big book cult, I was really mean because I didn't understand it because nobody explained the big book to me. I just saw these people who looked funny and acted weird and said the same thing.

And so we went to this meeting and here's here's this man, his name is Joe, and if Captain Kangaroo and David Crosby had sex and had a love child, this could've been my love life. You know, because I had 2 emotions, rage and so homicide ideation and suicidal ideation. So it was rage and suicidal depression, and that was what I knew. So he comes in. He's talking about the 9 step and the same stuff like all and, you know, you're not them and wherever.

And I I raise my hand and I froth them out and tell them about how, you know, you don't know and if you had my life and I you know, the story that we all have. Right? You know? You know? And those people, they owe me amends.

I don't owe them in amends. I'll make a them and, you know, the hell freezes over. Right? And he kind of he just kind of he smiles. Let's smile.

You get that crazy newcomer who's really on the break of a breakthrough. They're gonna break down a breakthrough. Right? And he smiled, and there's yeah. I'll talk to you after the meeting.

He didn't argue with me nothing. Like, didn't even get offended. He left. He said he said y'all know this when he said, I'm sorry I disturbed you on the question of alcoholism. Let me talk to you about that after the meeting.

Damn it. And so after the meeting, he qualified with me. But in the area, there were no women who worked the steps out of the book. There weren't. So I met one, her name was Kat.

I met her when I was already 5 or 6 years after my alcohol, and I had been working with steps for 4 years. And she lived an hour and 20 minutes away from me, and I drove to her house for an hour or an hour and 20 minutes one way every every every week to go through the book with that woman because there were no women who did this. There was no men who did this, and if they did, they were few and far between. And there were no women. That's why I was a guinea pig.

It was does this work on girls? So my home group was a bunch of guys who worked who were doing Joe and Charlie and back to basics, and then they found Joe and Mark and Don, and then they started importing people from West Coast Texas and Colorado to our home group to teach us how to do this. So they were boys. So, yeah, some of my sponsors have been men, and it wasn't because I you know, it wasn't for any other reason but necessity. I have sponsored men.

Most 85% of the men that I've sponsored are either gay or transgendered, so they were men may have started out as men, but they ended up being women. By the time I was done with them, my husband has a whole and a few that were were I I've had 2 that were women who became men. So I North Jersey and Montclair, and those of those of you who know North Jersey were kind of like the Clare is kinda like the park slope of New Jersey or at least Greenwich Village. You know? So there's a lot of alternative lifestyles.

So I have sponsored men. I have heard men's inventory. I've had I've had with permission somebody said, like, hey. Look. You know, it came to me in meditation that I really need to have a woman hear this inventory.

Would you be willing to hear it? Careful about it. You know, I get that inventory outside or in a public place. I ask permission from my husband. Anytime gay or straight man asked me to sponsor him, I ask my husband permission, he asked me permission.

I prefer to sponsor women. I prefer to have female sponsors. But there are times and circumstances when we do that. So when you when you hear he or she or you hear that, that's kind of how that has happened. But I'm gonna tell you that I've only sponsored 2 straight guys, and I'll never do that again.

And that's been my experience. It's like I did the whole I'm so spiritual. I can I fix horniness? It's really It's really it's really got to be uncomfortable when you're on their sex inventory. Oh, yes.

When that happened and I was like, wait a minute. You were what? I I realized that I'm not spiritual enough to do that. So I don't sponsor straight men anymore, but I do sponsor gay men or gay women or transgender. Anywhere in between.

The rainbow is Polish. Does that gonna help you a little bit? But my my my my my father right now has a vagina, but I have spiritual advisors who do not. Okay. We had one person.

I saw somebody and they they were kinda the the the little recorder thing was going around, and there was an immense story. And I really, really he got missed, and I'd like to be able to hear that before we go on. Is that okay with you guys? One last little I love them in stories anyway. They're awesome.

They're like hope hearing strength and hope in such a beautiful way. So I'd like to just kinda get you. I know because I stole it from you. And so I'm Andy, alcoholic. Andy.

My sponsor, Daryl, always use the how free do you wanna be terminology with me as well. And in my minutes, I did the vast majority of it when I wasn't drinking. Just if I felt like I was carrying anything in my life and was still with me at this age, I don't care how far back it went. And one of those stories was when I was 14 years old, and I was in an Explorer Scouts group, and part of what we did was we volunteered or for the church that we met at. They had a booth at state fairgrounds, and we would volunteer and work this booth as a way to get money for the group itself.

And I made my rounds. I cooked. I waited, and I bused and did dishes. And one of the steps was, working the cash register. And when I was at the cash register, I took $30, and, nobody knew it, but I carried that with me all my life.

And so when I was going through my amends, I said to myself, you need to make amends for this. So I researched what, you know, $30.78 was till now. And I contacted the now pastor and told him that you know, told him my story, and that I wanted to make amends for that. And, if it was agreeable, I would fast forward that $30 into $2,014 and make a $30 donation on top of it. And he was agreeable, and I said, well, before that, I ended the email with, and I'll send that to you.

But if you want, I'll do it in person, which I didn't want to do in person. So he's like, how about you come to service this Sunday? I was like, okay. I can do that. So I go to service, and he instantly spots me out when I walk through the door.

And takes me to his office, and he sits down and gets some history on me, and, you know, and we talked for probably about 15, 20 minutes. We go in, and he sits me next to a brother in the in the church. And, you know, we go through the service and everything, and it's time for the collection. And he says, we have a here today, and I wanna introduce you to him. And he called me up.

So I'm upfront and he introduces me. He's He's like, you know, hey. This is Andy. Used to be explorer scouts. They met here at the church.

Used to work at the booth at the fairgrounds. Well, they don't do it anymore, but there's a lot of old timers in there going, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I remember that.

And he said, you know, I went on to have a naval courier retired as naval officer, blah blah blah, you know, and just built me up. And then he says, he's got a story to tell you guys. Yeah. And the surprising thing was was I turned around. I didn't have a a bit of anxiety or anything, and it was just so freeing to stand up in front of 100 of people that I wronged and just just take credit for that wrong that I did to them.

And as I was telling my story, I could see the expressions on people's face. Some were just like, I can't believe. Others, tears were just running down their face. Others were smiling at me, and and it was just the whole gambit of emotions as I was telling the story to him. And then afterwards, when I tried to walk out, it was just I couldn't get out for an hour for people coming up, hugging me, going, I can't believe the courage you had to get up and do that.

And and it was just like a love fest. But it was it was by far the most freeing amends I ever made in my entire life. Oh, thank you. I guess, when we think We think we know what an amends is gonna look like or what body does amends is gonna look like are 2 very different things. And I think for me the most amazing thing about amends is the fact that I have absolutely no control nor any right to have any expectation on the outcome and thank God because then I would certainly that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, had one more.

Fantastic. That I I was going to be getting my 10 year token in April, and I asked my dad. I said, would you like to come to that meeting? And and and he didn't say yes. He said, it would be a privilege.

Mhmm. And so both of my parents were at the meeting when I got my 10 year token. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. So, I mean, it's just, I I just have an amazing relationship with them today that I had not had in 60 years.

Yeah. That's incredible. Okay. So who wants to talk a little bit about steps 10 and 11? They're my favorites.

We've been talking on them all weekend. Awesome. You know, when we talked about when I went over the theater live, I said this is incredibly useful for your 10 step. Why, you know, that's what we were talking about that. And I think, you know, we cheat ourselves and this goes back to this, like, you know, when I cut corners, I'm cutting more than corners.

And I was taught and this is like so with certain liberal about it, I've had a tremendous experience with step 10. Okay. And I was taught and this is like so with certain things, I'm liberal in terms of the big book and certain things, I'm not. In the 10 step, I'm not very liberal about it. And my experience has been because I'm not very liberal about it, I've had a tremendous experience with step 10.

I'm not very liberal about it, I've had a tremendous experience with step 10. And our promises of step 10 basically say that I'll cease fighting anything or anyone, even alcohol. So all of those things that we talked about on page 6063 will diminish. And if you and, of course, I know I know that a lot of you guys the defilements found on page 52, the promises found at the end of the 9th step, we see that they're the exact opposite of each other for a reason. Because basically, what's going on with me when I'm on page 52 will be resolved by taking the action that's set forth in this book between 5052 and 84.83 3 and 84.

So when we come to step 10, this is where it tells us we've entered the world of spirit. So this I don't have people wait till they finish their events to start doing step 10. I actually have people start doing step 10 pretty much. I mean, I mean, if you think about it, you have a conversation with me, and you end up leaving on your 4 step, however long that conversation is, that's how long it takes. You know?

So with that being said, typically, people start doing step 10 pretty much when they start working the steps with me. Doesn't mean I don't seem to have to read a book with people who have time or clear. I do. But by that point, I already have you on step 10 because my thoughts are this, is that if you're watching for this stuff when it comes time to write inventory and you've already done had some experience with inventory, and you're sitting and reading step 10 or working with 10 on a daily basis, your inventory is gonna have a lot of insight. You're not gonna miss a whole lot because you're really aware of you falling short on a daily basis.

But what I do find find is that those who have had experience with inventory and amends, if you fail to do steps 1011, chances are you either go batshit or drink in a matter of time. Pretty much everybody that I know who has had that spiritual experience, but eventually relapsed or picked up another ism in recovery, picked it up when they have not practiced these disciplines. But the way I was taught about it or the way I was taught is is that our next our function is to grow in understanding and effectiveness. So these are this is a growth step. This is where you know, like, if you think about it and think the 1 through 9 is the price of admission.

10, 11, and 12 is where the growth really happens. So when we look at this and we say and it says we continue to watch for selfishness, dishonesty, resentment, and fear. So we continue to watch because Bill's assuming it's gonna happen. So it's not a yes or no question. It's a where and when, not if.

And I think that that actually helps me a tremendous amount because the first time I've written inventory and I've really gotten, like, really spiritually right and I feel fantastic and then I did something going ahead, I had a tremendous amount of shame because I would think, well, I did all this work and I'm still an idiot. Now 20 years later, I go, I did all this work and I'm still an idiot. Okay. You know? That's that's the name of the game.

You know? So when it says when these crop up, we ask god to remove them. When, not if. We discuss them immediately with someone to make amends if we have harmed anyone. Discuss.

That's one that we miss. I'll be talking to people, and they'll they'll they'll tell me. They'll say, hey, Carrie. You know, I've been doing inventory for years. I've done inventory standing in my head.

I've done inventory in my own blood. You know, I've done this inventory, and I've made amends, and I've done proxy amends, and I've done this amends and that amends. And I'll ask them, say, well, tell me about what 10 what how the 10 step shows up for you. They go, well, you know what? I make a list of stuff I do at night.

I'm like, that's not 10 step. The 10 step is about being present in the moment and becoming awake to the things that knock me off the beam and using the tools that I've been given in the previous steps to allow God to write write me back on that being. Right? You know, it goes back to the analogy I use with you guys that I'm the rock, God's the water. God's shaping me.

But I have to be that rock. I have to sit still long enough for that to happen. And in order for me to do that, there's one thing that we need to do. And the one thing that we miss a lot, which is to discuss part of the 10th step. I'll watch.

I'll ask. I'll amend, and I'll turn, but I won't tell you. And there's a question in the nightly review. It says, is there something I should have discussed with another person? He says it twice.

He says discuss and then did you discuss at the end of the day? Meaning that this is a really gosh darn important thing. Solitary self appraisal sells insufficient. Bill says in the 5th step, if you don't do this, you'll likely drink. And then in 1011, he says, did you discuss or discuss?

And then 11, did you discuss? So this is an important thing, and we don't do it, do we? How many times did I fail to discuss something I should have? A lot. How many times did I pay a price for that?

A lot. And so when that discuss part of the 10 step got factored in, my spiritual experience and my experience with step 10 changed tremendously. Guys, I have what I call 10 step buddies, and they're basically my buddies. There are people that I call that call me. We text message.

Text message is an awesome thing. And email is awesome too. And if I'm jammed up at I work I work I can't have my phone on me at work because I work in treatment and patients steal cell phones, call their drug dealers, and then they escape. No lie. So we no longer phone in the car.

We have to have it in our in in in our desk. Right? Like, I can't have my phone on me because it they they Google, like, you know, you know, like, cold copping in Tannersville, Pennsylvania, and then they find out where to get drugs. I mean, they're they're ingenious people. You know?

So So I have to be really careful about that. It's like being in the prison. You can't you can't have stuff like that on you. So what do I do when I'm when I watch and I see and I'm I find that I'm, you know, I found that I've been selfish, dishonest, self seeking, frightened, resentful. What do I do?

Well, this is an awesome thing. Right? So I see. I observe. Right?

I ask. I turn. I discuss. And I might say to one of my patients, you know, I'm really in my head right now. You know?

You're talking to me, and quite frankly, I'm really sorry I'm not listening because I'm thinking about my own selfish stuff. Something that simple. I remember sitting for an exam and I was scared. So I turned to somebody in the classroom and I said, you know what? I'm really I'm really projecting.

I'm being really dishonest with myself, and I'm really invested in an outcome here. And as a result of that, I'm really, you know, I'm really jammed up in my thoughts and really I'm just not living the kind of life that I wanna be living and I'm not on a spiritual beam right now. Is there anything I could do to be of service to you today? And of course, my fellow student knows I'm a complete wackadoo and just laugh your ass off. But, you know, we don't have to, like, you know, go to the mountain tops in order to discuss.

It could be a simple conversation. It could be a, you know what, I'm, you know, I'm in line. I'm impatient. And I turn to somebody next to me and say, you know what? Sometimes I think I'm so important.

I'm so self involved that I forget that there are other people in the universe. Would you like to go in front of me? You know? But for the big deal ones, the heavy hitters, I have a 10 step I have 10 step buddies. I get them all the time.

In fact, I got a quarter of a bar while I was here, and I got 7 text message messages. 4 of which were 10 steps from other people. So now I have to actually send them a text message saying I'm really sorry. I'm in a wild Indiana. You are.

I haven't ignored you, but I but so we do this, the disgust part, and there's a humility to it. Because we've become legends in our own minds, you know. And we do this work so much, we've become naval gazers so much, and we sponsor, and we're gurus, and we're this and we're that. You know what? Use your sponsors as 10 step buddies.

That's awesome, man. The first time my sponsor called me crying about some wackadoo stuff, I was like, I didn't know what to say. I was like, what? Did you pray? But here's the deal.

We don't use a 10 step we don't use each other as human toilets either. So the idea is is I'm not calling you with my drama, I'm calling you with my 4th column. I'm calling you for where I was selfish, dishonest, resentful, or afraid. Not with did that bitch. She you know, do you know what she did in that staff meeting?

She blah, then blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, If I called my sponsor with that, I get hung up on. So I call with a I am currently disconnected from God based on my selfishness, dishonesty, resentment, and fear. This is how selfishness, dishonesty, resentment, and fear is showing up for me today. I prayed on it. I'm discussing it with you.

Is there anything I could do to be of service to you today? And it's amazing how that changes my day. The other thing I do, and I told you guys that I had index cards, because I keep index cards. I keep them in my purse. Inventory cards.

Now let's just say, I get jammed up for real, and it's not just something I'm like, oh, I'm being a selfish jackass. I'm gonna pick up the phone. I keep index cards. Little pieces of inventory I can write and get free right here, right now. Sometimes I have a pen to paper.

At night I do. Because at night we have 12 questions and the first question was? Exactly. And if you answer yes, what do you gotta do? Exactly.

So basically at the end of the day it says, did I write inventory on the stuff I should have written inventory on? If not, should I write it now? And again, I've done the written nightly review. I've done the not written nightly that. I like writing it out.

I have, like, a little notebook. No one can read it because my handwriting is atrocious, and I like answering those questions. I think it helps. I attend I have I have review buddies. We email each other our reviews.

Now I don't do that every night of the week, like I don't, you know. And mostly because mostly because I just forget sometimes. But there are periods of time when I make agreements with people in my life and we're, like, doing some serious spiritual work and it's we email each other review. I get I get emailed reviews quite often, which prompts me to email a review. So the fact is is I probably email my reviews at least 5 nights out of the week, you know, but it's not something that I'm doing as a spiritual commitment.

It's just something that or or a spiritual practice as in, like, I, an exercise which is kinda how I do my reviews. Because the truth is is that and this is the thing, it helps me, keeps me humble. It also helps the peer person who's receiving my review. They point out things, ask me questions. I'll get an email back saying, can you consider and you know whenever somebody asks you can you consider it's probably yes I probably am doing that but it really helps and the other thing too in terms of sponsorship and having the email as a review is what I found is 1 that I'll get a lot of people who think they know how how to write inventory but don't and so when I get a nightly review and I'll get were you selfish?

Yes. But I would or or was I resentful? Yes. But selfish, no. I know they don't know how to write inventory.

Or was I resentful? Yes. But no. I was not afraid. I know they don't have the right inventory.

I I love when they tell me that they're not dishonest at all. And I'm thinking, if you were resentful or selfish or frightened, you're inherently dishonest. You can't be selfish without being dishonest because when I'm selfish, I'm taking whatever it is that you have I want, and it's mine. And that's dishonest because it's not for me to decide what I have or want. That's me playing God, but I'm resentful I'm dishonest because I'm telling myself a story about you that makes me whatever.

That's dishonest. I'm playing God. I have expectations and demands. You know? Inevitably, if I'm resentful, I'm selfish and dishonest.

And fright if I'm frightened, I'm selfish and dishonest. If I'm, you know, they they they apparently don't go hand in hand. So I find that when I get people doing a night review who tell me that although they are selfish, they are not dishonest, I know they don't know how to write inventory. Because I'll get people who have 20, 30 years who tell me that they've been through the work, and we're sitting down going through the work. And the first thing I do, 1st day, and I'm going through word by word, paragraph by paragraph.

I'm doing the slow route because they tell me they know how to work the steps. And after I qualify them a little bit, say to them, because you can't come right out and say, by the way, you have 30 years, and what you think you know about the steps could probably would probably kill me. So why don't you just forget that and, like, you know, and and and just do it my way? Like, that I tried doing that. People would get really pissed off.

So what I did was I say, hey, here's what I want you to do. While we're going through this work and we're sitting and reading the book, I want you to email me and unite the review. And most of the time I get, what's that? And then I get to have that conversation and say, well, do you not know you know, have you been through the 10 do you know what the 10 step is? Do you know what prayer meditation?

Where's your prayer meditation? And and and by virtue of asking those questions and having that conversation, they begin to see, hey. Wait a minute. Maybe I've been 2 stepping it. You know?

Or maybe I you know maybe I wrote an inventory that didn't include sex or harms or fear like I I don't have people have written resentment inventory but haven't written the other inventories. I have no experience with it. Don't even know what it is. And so they don't understand that fear and selfishness are connected or that fear and resentment are connected or that you can't have one without the other, that they all kinda come in a package. You know, they don't understand that and that's where I get to have that conversation.

But on the other side of it, when they're emailing me that they're not review, then I can kinda say to them, hey, you know, this came up in your review last night. Let's take a look at that. And it helps them identify when you're stuck on the dash. You know, I'm powerless over alcohol but I'm managing my life just fine. And when I can do that with a nightly review, that really helps me to get them to get in touch with that powerlessness which is gonna motivate them through the work.

When you haven't had a drink in 30 years, and you've been telling yourself all kinds of stories about who you are to justify what you're doing, they're harder. Somebody with time who thinks they know the deal is so much harder to get through than the who's crazy and chewing the walls. I mean, basically, the drunk who's crazy and chewing the walls in early recovery and just twitching. All I gotta do is slow you down enough to give you some information, and you go berserk with it free and everything's awesome. You know, somebody with time who thinks they have an experience with the steps who really actually hasn't been having an experience with the steps instead has been having an experience with their ego.

They're really hard to get through because they think they know something. And when I think I know something, I'm usually screwed. And the problem is is some people are so attached to their time, they can't see it. So it's like, why? I have 25 years, I have 30 years, I have 21 years, I have 16 years.

I have time. And I wanna be like, well, let let's look at quality rather than quantity. But in order to get people to look at the quality rather than quantity, doing the nightly review and having them email it or just call it in to me or read it to me helps. It really helps me get them to touch that spot of them to kinda see, hey. Wait a minute.

My alcoholic life seems like the only normal one. I can't differentiate the truth from the false. I've been rationalizing and justifying a lot of stuff that doesn't square with what I know to be true. And it's a really helpful sponsorship tool. So I definitely use it.

But like I said, I love that question when they ask us. It says, did I keep something to myself that I should have shared? So I would think that if Bill asked us that question twice, that it's a really important thing for us to do. And I would beg you not to deprive yourself of the opportunity of applying that to your daily life. We don't have to make it crazy, but we can definitely do it.

And, like, I I and we do it to one another. Like, I'll literally pull my boss aside in this point. He knows. I'm like, can I do a 10 step with you? Can we get a minute?

Mhmm. And it really was. He had never I don't think he it is his work. He's never even told me to pay for it. Yeah.

And but all the love of me, and he came in and he did tremendous work. He made tremendous. Yeah. And he's still on fire. Yes.

20 years ago, I mean, Yeah. You're absolutely right on that. Well, Yeah. True. True.

The the point is that the suffering alcoholic, I mean, excuse the new guy or gal that's there. The suffering alcoholic is most of the time, the person sitting in the room that's been there for years with no solution. Yeah. And because they've got time, they can't admit they don't have a solution. Yeah.

Their ego's gotten entrapped, and that's why old timers don't drink. They commit suicide. True. True. They put the car in the garage and let the engine run.

True. And, I don't go any place where I don't hear that story right away. Yeah. And it's happened down the block for me couple years ago. Yeah.

And so Yeah. Yeah. And you our own group the other night, somebody doesn't usually show up, says something that's great. So when the pain when the pain of pain becomes greater than pain of change. Yeah.

Not until the pain of pain is greater than the pain of change does anything change. True. True. True. Absolutely right.

But one of the things that I found and sometimes there there are people who have that dramatic change. And a lot of times and maybe this is maybe this is an East Coast New York thing. It's, I want a sponsor du jour. I want a name brand. Unfortunately, I'm a name brand sponsor.

And so what happens is people you know, like, Mike says, like, what how many people do you sponsor, Mike? You said a capital. When people ask you how many people do sponsor you, a capital. Kinda like that. Now with women with women and and I'm not trying to be sexist in any way, shape, or form, but a good sponsor is like a Prada bag.

Right? We want Prada as a special bag. They're like 2 grand. They're really awesome. If you have one, your husband really loves you.

I'm kidding. But the idea is that why us? Why us? Girlfriend. Yeah.

By us, sometimes sponsorship can be can be, you know, confused with, you know, with with an accessory. So a lot of times, I'll get people who have time, who ask me to sponsor them because they think I'm somebody, and I ain't nobody. My sponsor always used to tell me, Carrie, you're somebody you're a no you're a you're a nobody trying to be a somebody in a program full of nobodies, and that's pretty stupid. You know? You know, but people sometimes, they they they they they don't understand what it is that we do because, vulnerable than than sitting in that chair right now.

You know? And that and that, you know, this isn't because I know so much. It's because I've made so many goddamn mistakes that I've collected enough to be able to tell you what not to do. So out like me, I get a lot of old timers who who wanna wear me like a Prada bag, but I use it against them. I Jedi mind trick them.

They end up with a very with a bedazzled big book and a gut punch. And I gut punch them with steps 1011 with the nightly review with the because we'll find out that, you know, they really have a throwaway phone that they're having, like, you know, an affair with some god some god that they met at the gym while their husband's at work. And, you know, they're living on Park Avenue, and they have a shopping addiction. And by the way, they like to put their finger down their throat 37 times a day. You know, and these are things that come up.

And because they look fine, it's all about I'm on the outside. I'm gonna trick you with the outside with the false advertising. And and and inside, I'm I'm a cesspool. And I can tap into that. And I use the fact that they think that I'm a Prada bag and that I'm a name brand.

And I that's like, okay. You think you're gonna get a name brand? Come to my house. Come on. Let's have a conversation.

You know? And then I let them hang themselves a little bit with their rope, and they're gonna tell me how spiritual they are They are, and then I start poking holes in that. And by the time I'm done poking holes with asking some questions and doing some things, all of a sudden, their blood brain mess is telling me about the 3 37 affairs in the garden, you know, the the the pool boy that they've been the the Christian what is it? Christian? What kind of shoes are they?

The ones with the red soles? Christian something or other. Mine. Yeah. Thank you.

I can't even pronounce it. Those those $400 shoes that they have hidden in their trunk that they don't want their husband to know about? Me? Me? Oh, see.

I don't even know. I look. I wear, like, I don't but we can use that. We have we have the ones who are broken, know they're broken, and then we have the ones that think they're just fine, and they're a little Dutch boy with the fingers in the dam. And these steps and this process can these questions and the things that we were talking about this weekend can be a way to kinda wedge open that hole.

And if you're open to hear it, you're gonna. One of the things that I really wanted to do with you guys this weekend and, is to one of the things that gets short shirted on on these these weekends, a lot of times, is meditation. And I think it's because I think it's because, there's so much to talk about, and we can go on and on. I can go on and on. I love talking about inventory because inventory is fun.

I'm a therapist. I do inventory every day. I just charge people for it. Kidding. I'm really kidding.

If I was as confrontational in therapy as I am in a fist up, I I'd have no clients. Right, Tracy? A woman's gotta eat. But I one of the things that we when we talk about meditation, and we we all know that our lineage and the people in our the people who have taught us valued meditation, prayer and meditation, and kind of said, like, you know what? Our failure to do this is often the thing that brings us back to the very thing that brought us into Alcoholics Anonymous anyway, which is either drinking or pain.

But be by virtue of my experience and there's a line in our book and it talks about it says, you know, see where religious people are right. And I said said that, you know, we talk about I make cracks and I said this book is non conference approved, that book is non conference approved, and you know, we kind of make cracks about this. But, you know, part of what we're supposed to be doing when we get to this point is to start to explore other experiences and other ways of looking at spirituality. You know, I don't know anybody who's actually had this true spiritual experience where they said, oh, this book is enough and I'm not gonna look at anything else. In fact, most of the people that I know who have had this spiritual experience have become spiritual adventurers.

You know, they're like, hey, it's such a retreat. Cool. I don't have to talk to my wife and go. You know? Hey, let's try this or there's a meditation class or let me let I can learn about chakras, or let me go to a bible study, let me go to this, and let me go to that.

And we become spiritual adventurers because we realize that they're just ideas, man. And if they don't fit, we can always put them right back down. Old ideas or new ideas don't have to become old ideas. They can just be ideas. And when you start to wear ideas like a like a loose garment, you become so open and open minded to spiritual stuff because I can I can be sitting with you and you could be a fundamental Christian and I can be, you know, a dudeist?

There is something called dudeism, by the way. Google it. It's based on. The. I could be a Buddhist and you could be a fundamental Christian and your reality and my Judaism could absolutely exist at the same time in the same place because we're here for the same reasons.

And because we have that experience here, I can hear what you have to say and you can hear what I have to say, and we can agree on deep levels that our differences don't have to be that thing that drives us apart. It's our common solution, common peril that keeps us together and that common solution is exploring god's universe. So you could be an atheist and you could be the most devout person in the world and you can exist together at the same time in the same place, and there doesn't have to be any conflict between the 2 of us. So one of the things that I like to do is guided meditation. It has been incredibly helpful to me.

One of the guided meditations I have used over the years is actually out of 12 of 12. Holy crap. There is meditation in there. Did you know that? No.

Bill uses guided meditation in the 12 and 12. He actually talks about going to a safe place in a a beach, and and he walks you through it, and then he actually uses the Saint Francis prayer. So when we do when we talk people say, well, you know, meditation does say it it says prayer meditation, then it says upon awakening. So there's no real meditation in the big or in AA. I don't know what you're talking about.

It's well, yes. It's it's in the 12 to 12. I know we don't like reading that book, but sometimes there's some good stuff in there. And in the 12 and 12, it talks about using creative visualization as a meditation, and it talks about using the Saint Francis prayer. I don't know about you, but Saint Francis prayer is a prayer that I say every day of my life.

And for me, if you had to ask me what what my, like, mission statement is, I would have to tell you that the thing that comes closest to it is the prayer of Saint Francis. Like, that to me is, like, my guide, my math, my morals. It's what I when I when when I when someone's someone's doing something and they're not understanding me, I literally say, it's better to understand than be understood. You know? Those words just come to me.