The topic of "Home group" at the June NOLA workshop in New Orleans, LA

Arnold Arnold Alcoholic

Home group is important questions.

OK so

I I asked a man to help me through. I asked a man

to show me how this step bullshit works. Those were my exact words in Atlantic and we start reading the book and or big book. Sorry,

big book and and we go through steps and during that process

he tells me I don't sponsor guys that don't do service

and

well at that group. OK,

So group is a word, OK.

It's it's really an open concept, OK,

A group of Alcoholics is

a group of Alcoholics. You could generalize about them, but that's not fair to yourself, OK? It's not

because people are different.

So I tell my sponsor that I cannot do service before the meeting because I'm at the gym with my coworkers.

Those are people that people that I have very few things in common with

socially

for economically

or, or you know, any in any way or even professionally.

And I don't do any service. And after the meeting, you know, it's, it's, it's basically a sauna. A meeting is a sauna. It's a tiny room and 90 guys in there. There are 20 guys at my first meeting and we are soon up to up to 45,

45

and later we would go up to 1A and 40 guys, but you know, and then down to 50 again and or whatever. And

I, I didn't have the willingness to jump and grab what we call the magic wand of AA,

the brush to clean cups.

So, but I'm at this meeting, I'm at the meeting and I come right before the meeting starts. My Home group, which was my Home group because

that's her first meeting I went to. It's a man's stag meeting. And I'm a big believer in stack meetings, especially women's stack meetings, OK, especially women's tag meetings, because there are certain types of females that come into a, a that cannot, are not open to sponsorship from other women.

And I believe those women need to be in women's diag meetings

because women have a different method of communicating than men do.

And we can't help those girls because they are, they are. It gets sexual really fast. And and that only complicates matter. It's not bad, but it complicates stuff. OK.

And I'm at the men's tag meeting and I'm

and I feel like I'm not really, I'm feel like a guest. I'm drinking their coffee and their seats at their meeting and I'm not. And somebody had been saying something about that. I don't remember who and I don't remember what. And I basically sidestep

tow the ship. There were two sinks

and this this guy who was a friend of mine had.

He is the most neurotic alcoholic ever to have dark at the doors of AA.

He basically, whatever you would say to him, and he had 2 1/2 years at that time, whatever you would say, he would just go, you know, automatically come back with

2 1/2 years in steps, you know, and, and he is, yeah, he's neurotic. OK.

And he's standing there with his pink glove and the magic wand of AA. And I turn around and I start watching cops with my hands. Water is hot.

It's hot water is hot water in Iceland. OK, Geothermal heating, it's 80°C. That's, I don't know, 150 Fahrenheit or something. So it's hot, OK. And I do cups and I turn around when, when I'm done, But well, while I'm doing the cups, he, he comes and and this he comes and he says, oh, are you doing the cups?

And, and,

and that's great.

And, and I just, I feel like I, I'm not allowed to participate.

And let me tell you that when I stepped away from the sink after doing that, everything changed.

I was high. I've tried a few highs, you know, I've tried spiritual highs and I've tried meditation highs and I've done some

hashish with PCP in it. And I've like what we call gasoline hashish in Iceland. It's basically the mass on it. The texture is, is, is the mass in it plates on on the back of of, of IKEA furniture. But it's hashish. It's it's not good stuff. OK, but this was a pure authentic high

and it's and everything the whole world shifted. I wasn't

drinking your coffee. I wasn't sitting in your chair. I wasn't.

I wasn't taking any more. I was participating and I was high and I would get hooked on that stuff. It's good stuff

and it's not that they need you know, in I you know, you know, meetings have disposable cups and and and my Home group he they they don't believe in disposable cups because of the magic went away or what magic want of A and I would slowly start to participate. They wouldn't call on me to share. I, I did not share at that group for 13 full 13 months.

They would, you know, the first, the first meeting I would share at was the one on, on,

on Christmas Eve, which is Christmas in Iceland. And there were only 10 guys there. So they had to have me have me share. And I'm sober 13 months by that time, 13 months and two weeks, OK. And they, that's, that's the first time that they realised that I have something to share, OK. And they would start calling on me during the meeting and I would do service. I've been a cashier, I've been the secretary and I've I've been

in the group rap and I have,

you know, I've, I've done time in intergroup. It's interesting.

I've basically participated in that Group

A lot in the beginning. I would also be a secretary for a speaker's meeting and I would do, you know, blah, blah, blah. And, and it's not about office. It is not

holding office is, in my humble opinion, not really meaningful in AI.

It's it's what you know, and that goes back to sponsorship. I don't like the title sponsor. I just you know, you can call me what whatever you want. You can call me your sponsor, your gay lover or whatever. You know, I don't care. We we do a a as I know how to do it and, and Home group is

so I would slowly just do service at, you know, slowly but surely I would start doing service and doing holding office in other groups

because I found thought for myself, the office was more about

impressing you guys that it was about service.

And I just thought, and I haven't done that stuff for, I don't know, ten years or whatever. I only had only health office in my Home group. I would participate. I would help with a chair. I believe in coming early to meetings, especially my Home group. That meeting was is 8:15 on Monday nights at the Atlanta Club in Reykjavik

and I would be there at 5 before the coffee guys. I would be the guy that made the coffee for the coffee guys.

And and if you, if you don't believe me, just call the guy so they they know, you know, it's, it's really something that I did. I went straight from work to that meeting and I would just sit there

pot of coffee and, and, and sat and somebody would come early and, and, and the, the, the coffee makers, they would come at, I don't know, 6:30 or 7:00

and they would, you know, they were always trying to beat me. Be you know, that's you know, that's fine.

This Home group thing in Oslo it seems, and this is OK. This is a soapbox, OK? In Oslo it seems the definition of a Home group is a group that you really like going to.

I at least hear people talking about this being their Home group.

They will be at the podium, but I'm there more often than they are. And this is not my Home group.

OK, I would, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm lucky in that I do work that is not real work. OK, I, I, I do it. It's basically sitting around waiting for stuff to happen. And you start installing something, you start doing something and then some. Sometimes something, someone would break some system at some company and my customers knew that I was not available

from six, from 6:00 on Mondays till midnight.

I would go on emergency calls after midnight, after the meeting. I would come early. I would talk to the guys. We would talk trash. I'm a big, big, you know, you should have heard that. I'm a big, big fan of trash talk, OK. And I would go and we would have pizza after the meeting and I would drive somebody home if that was the case.

And then I would go and do those jobs and my customer fully customers fully understood that this, you know, I'm, I'll sacrifice something else for,

for, you know, also sacrifice some other. I will not go in the cabin next weekend or whatever because the customer wants to schedule something. But I will not sacrifice my Home group for anything

because it's my Home group.

If we if we compare that to girlfriend and I know English is is is pretty weird with that we have a have a word. Icelandic has male, female and new to gender. The word is Kai Rasta, poor female Kai Rasti for for male. So a girl will say Tai Rasti to about his her boyfriend. And that's a relationship thing. A girlfriend,

a a female's girlfriend is just her girlfriend. It's not her sexual, it's not her lover necessarily,

but Home group is like a relationship for me.

This is the woman I'm seeing.

OK?

I will not sacrifice people who asked me to come to other meetings in Yari yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda. They would ask me to come and chair a meeting or this is great meeting on Monday nights, blah blah blah. I will not. I just will not do that because this is my Home group,

OK? I will not, you know, I got a girlfriend in a a, A and she knew that this, you know, she would work nights one week and off next week and et cetera. And on her off nights, there was nothing other. She knew that I was not available for her because I was at my Home group, you know, and if you, if you, if you think about a relationship, how you know

anywhere from acquaintances to friends,

the acquaintances being somebody you talk to

and the friend, you know, you call an acquaintance and you say, hey, I'm going to the movies.

And he says, well, I'm going to go out hunting.

You'll say, OK, I'm going to the movies and you'll call the next guy,

OK, a friend. You'll call a friend and you'll say, hey, wanna go out for, for, for movies. And he'll say, no, I'm going out hunting. And you'll go out hunting because being around your friend is more important than this stuff that you do together. OK,

Home group is like that. I would I would participate in any activity, however stupid that activity was,

however stupid how much or little I agreed with him. If they had a conference, I would participate

and if they had BBQ at some guy's house, I would participate because it's my Home group.

I don't agree with everything that they do, especially now that I've left Iceland. They have the group conscious meeting after the meeting, which which is just heresy in my mind. That's newcomer time, OK,

and but I'll participate and and if you, if you, I try to follow the, the, the humility that Bill had in the second tradition in the 12:00 and 12:00,

Bill gets a job at Towns Hospital and he knows this is the world. This is the God's will for him. And he's fantasizing about this. And he's going to the meeting that night and he goes to the meeting and it tells the guys at the meeting, you know, I got a job, a job offer at Tom's hospital. And the guy said you can't do that to us.

And he doesn't,

OK, He doesn't. That is make. That is what makes Bill Wilson Bill Wilson, in my opinion.

If he had said,

you know, fuck you guys, I'm going to take that job. He wouldn't have been Billy Wilson. He wouldn't have been one of the Co founders of a a he he would have been Appie Thatcher. He would have been Roland Hazard. He would be, you know, be be, you know, a face in history. You know, he's he, you know, he he would be a vague memory. But everybody here is because it's here because of Bill Wilson and his reaction that day.

And I don't have any fantasies of becoming Bill Wilson.

And for you history lovers, that's probably has to do with different approaches to sex.

If you read that on Bill sex life, it was interesting. It's really, really interesting in sobriety.

I don't have any fantasies, but I, I look at the good stuff that he had and that humility is something that I want to have in my life. And that is,

you know, one of the reasons for that is, is, is that is that I, if I only do what I think is right, I will only get what I can imagine.

And that's it.

If we go back to the Japanese with a joystick, you know, to participate in someone else's life

is magic.

It is magical. And and my sacrifice is one night a week.

I do six meetings a week in Oslo. I have the Icelandic meetings on Sundays. I'll have the have the primary purpose group on Mondays, or if not, I'll have the the big book translation project thing. I have the men's deck on Tuesdays. I have the English speaking on Wednesdays. It's a QuickBooks study and Thursday is a night off. And Friday there's the podium meeting, the podium meeting. It's the first and only podium meeting in Norway. OK,

and on Saturdays I might go to the English speaking meeting if I don't have anything else planned.

You know, my role in AA has to do with my commitment. And if I only care. This is a calorie game. This is a calorie game. It's not a weight game. OK, We'd spend calories. We'd get paid in calories. OK. We, we, we, we get paid in effort. We do RPMS, not mph, OK. And, and sometimes the, the, the newcomer is, is it's, we are there at there at the exact right time.

And, and some, but sometimes it takes a friend of mine, he lived in involved in Volta, which is a is a town on the West Coast of Norway. He would take a three hour bus ride once a week to go to a shit meeting, to a really bad meeting. It was a no steps, no big book, no nothing. And, and he, he would call me, call, call me. And so I can go. I don't really know what the why the hell I'm doing this.

He had one meeting a week and he took the three hour bus ride, you know, through the mountains. Basically, it's it's beautiful. If you if you look up Volta with AV, it's beautiful, but you know, it's three hours

and then one one day he'd called me and and he'd go. Now I know what I'm why I'm there.

Now I know why I've been doing this. And this this meeting tonight made it all totally worth it.

He there's this older lady that has some ideas about well, has some ideas. She has her brain is gumbo basically from the description. And and she has some, some stuff and she that didn't want to do step work and she came back with a black eye after, you know, getting drunk and falling on furniture and and arguing with this body of mine about the merits of step work. OK.

And that moment was a magical moment for him. It doesn't sound like like a lot, but it was a magical moment for him. He knew why he was doing it because he had a Home group. He showed up even though he didn't feel that that he needed something else

and showing up and, and and I I picked the chair. I was the 4th chair from the staircase. OK. I was sitting there always when you were in your first guide to come you, you, you know,

you, you sit your ass down on the 4th chair and and you know, you're always there. My service there, you know, apart from from, you know, telling stories and and and and and stuff at the meeting was be was being a face in that seat every Monday, every Monday,

no matter what, be it Christmas or Easter or whatever. I was there I would take my family with my aunt who my mom lived abroad and my aunt lived in the suburbs and, and she she understood that this was Home group time. Yes, it's Christmas Eve. We're having Christmas dinner and we'll just have it at 5:00 because

Ardmore needs to go to his meeting and I'd go to my meeting. That's the level of dedicate. I'm just trying to tell you that's the level of dedication that I that I put into it. It's not the correct level of dedication.

It is not. But I got what I got out of it because of that dedication. Just like with a girlfriend. If you only,

if your relationship is sexual acquaintances, you will get that out of it. If it's soul mates, you'll get that out of it. You know, and it's work. You have to work on a relationship to your Home group, to your girlfriend, to whatever. You have to put in effort. It's not just, you know, yeah, we're compatible. And then, you know, it's fine. This is a nice meeting for me.

You know,

coming here and I'm seeing this stuff. It reminded me that guy with the gangrenous liver, we, we would need on Fridays because my Home group announced that on Friday lunch, we would all meet at this restaurant and we would eat. And we were sitting there just the two of us and nobody else came that that Friday. And we were talking about, Hey, let's have a conference and let's, let's get us get an American over.

If we knew exactly which guy to, to bring.

And we started working on it and, you know, getting a getting somebody to do the coffee and, and we had to, we would, you know, there's no toilet there. There was number. No, there's no running water. We had to get the water and buckets and, and bring it there. We had one coffee maker and, and, and it was, it was magical time. He would relapse before, before that they came around. He he realized before he sober today, you know, he is, he is. But he, he had relapsed and, and, and the group effort,

everybody played a role.

And the thing,

the thing was amazing. It was amazing. The next year we couldn't that that bookstore, its facility had been remodeled to something else. And we were trying to find a place to venue to hold it in. And we, we had this half built concrete house close to the meeting and it was so much echo that you couldn't stand, you know, you couldn't hear anybody 3 feet away. OK, So what we did was someone guy in the group. He, he was working at a, he was helping

a conference, a food conference. And, and with, with these conferences, like real conference, it's a food conference or fish, fish or something. He would get, get that the carpets as gifts, as a, you know, disposable carpets and we board, you know, bolts into the ceiling and, and pieces of wood behind them. And we would put the carpet in the ceiling so we could have our conference.

And we have tapes of that stuff.

We, the tapes are online

and, and, and, and to, to, to, you know, just just like when you, when you, when you've, when you've taken a meeting into a rehab facility and you found somebody who was really open. You take a meeting to rehab facility with your buddy and you talk, talk to a newcomer and you can't wait for him to, you know, to meet him again or, or take him to the steps. You organize something and you have this knowing smirk between you, between you and your friend. You have this know things smug you you have a

in the group that you did something with someone

and we would do it again in 2005 and again in 2006. Not this dramatic, but you know, we would do stuff together and that creates a bond that is bigger than and it runs deeper in all honesty than talk about stuff steps

it does. It's something real. It's something that actually happened. It's something that you you, you will know for the rest of your life. And not all of the guys that are, you know, participated are sober today. Not all, but we have a bond that is more than just

work best apps or or or something,

you know, it's not just about the you know, we are, we are, we are, we are. How does it put a second chapter Put it

it?

Let's find it if I can.

Yes, in the beginning of our second chapter, I wanted to spell the spill the mood, but I do not finding it. But it's basically we have a bond and it's not just a bond of of of of a common problem. And it's not just a bond of a common solution. It's the bond of having

common solution as a definition. That is, we have actually done stuff together.

NAA, be it made coffee.

I have a have a have a buddy in Oslo. We show up for for one group and and and and we drink coffee and then we go out for burgers because nobody else comes and some, some sometimes somebody else comes and and that's great. You know, we're just there on a stakeout. So whatever, whatever definition you have for Home group, it's you know, I know that my definition of a Home group is not the correct one. I know that,

but I want what I can get

out of it.

I'd rather sleep with my soul mate than some just hot chick, you know? I, I, I, I want something more

and the Home group is important. And that, that group in Iceland, we, we, we, they have and still have a group conscience meeting every month. And when I left the, the, the first Monday of every month before the meeting, we would have a group concert meeting and we would go through business and it's capped at 15 minutes and then we would have 30 minutes of, of group inventory questions. And it's not that, that, you know, it's not the result of it,

the discussion between the guys and we were often just, you know, we would get angry even, you know, and some guys are not, you know, don't agree with the results. I, I, I don't, I don't care for the results so much as I love the discussion, you know, being able to discuss the question at length. What are we doing for the newcomer

and not just jacking off the box says, yeah, we go out for pizza after the meeting and we have a conference once a year. But what are we doing? Are we open to the newcomers? Does the newcomer, you know, just this is not in the format, it's just random stuff. We, we had a format that, and we still have a format that is we, we choose a member of the group to chair for 15 minutes, 10 to 15 minutes. And then he calls on people he wants to hear and they have 5 minutes each

and and that's the format. The English speaking group in Oslo is is the chair reads where we left off in the big book. He will read one or she will read one paragraph and then he gets 3 minutes and a timer sounds and off to the next one.

We try to stay focused. If you go off topic, that's fine. It's only three minutes. You know it's only three minutes of that thing. Your time is up. Thank you.

And

so our group is, you know, it's an open thing.

It's a really open concept. So the definition isn't, I would think, I would think of my Home group, the Monday night Man Stack as a group, you know, through my whole sobriety. Then we got some, some speaker to come and, and, and we had by then we had, we had the convention at a church and all the groups that would meet in that church,

which is not my Home group, they would also come

and the, the speaker said from the podium, It's a really enthusiastic group you have here. And I would of course get a resentment right away because there were a lot of people there that were not from my group. But it's, you know, this, that city is a group. It is a group. Some, some some meetings. They are men only. Some meetings are women only,

you know. Some meetings are just after meetings, you know,

I don't know,

You know, if they don't want newcomers that are, that are not doctors, let us have them, you know, it's fine.

But the whole city is a group. The whole city, city is a, is a fellowship

and we are all bonded in a way, whether we like it or not.

And we,

and that's like, you know, my mom, she's a genealogy buff and she's, there's actually what on the 2nd of July, there's a, there's a family reunion. And I have apparently I have relatives in, in Washington state and they're all coming for the family reunion used as the US brands of the family, blah, blah, blah. People that don't speak Icelandic have never been to Iceland. No, don't know anything about Iceland except, you know, media and stuff.

And I sometimes feel like like,

you know, my mom is saying, Ah, this is your aunt. And, and I feel like a horse being checked out, you know, let me see the teeth, let me see the hooves. You know, it's it's because you know, you, you, you, this is a relation that I don't that that I don't know.

And and you there are people here in here, but I don't know any of you really. But there are people in here that you really don't know why not to get to know them. You know, you might help them, they might help you, you know, you, you if you're a newcomer here, you're helping the the old timers a lot more than than than they're helping you. Let me let's just say that right off the bat, you know,

the steps and all that stuff, the format and blah, blah, blah. It's all a formality so that you can start to work with others.

It's somebody asked me about arts and crafts. What I mean by arts and crafts, four through nine or four step is arts and crafts. It's a part of the puzzle, but it's not the puzzle. It's not the thing. It's not to be worshipped. The only thing that I, I, I, I worship, you know, in, in, in a, a is, is

what the fellowship does together.

And sometimes it's not that not as ambitious as I'd like it to be, but you know, when it is, it is awesome. It really is. Thank you. Questions.

Any questions?

Yes,

of the third step prayer.

So the question,

sorry.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

OK.

The what is the what is the importance of the third step prayer?

For me, I did a third step prayer and I didn't have an experience other than I started working Step 4.

I

something started to happen and this is all really vague. I wasn't keeping a journal. OK. But somewhere on the timeline, I'm at that midnight meeting,

at the midnight meeting in Reykjavik and

and I don't remember what I said, but it ended with to be high on God

and

was apparently profound. I have no recollection of what I said. That is a result of the third step.

Practically speaking, result of the third step is, you know, the making up, making a decision to go through with the process. That's the third step. If you think that's prayer, then if you do the prayer in the big book, which I do, you know, I do that from time to time and, and sometimes every day and sometimes every, every, every quarter.

But

I would take guys, newcomers and I would take them and we would go down on our knees and do the whole celebration thing. And then and I stopped doing that because I felt I wasn't honest. I didn't believe it. So I told them you need to find your own honesty, your own higher power, your own way of something that makes sense to you. That's the requirement for, for, for, for God in chapter 4. It is

something that is not you, that makes sense to you.

And if, if you find, you know, I've, I've helped guys with with that. I've found Jesus and, and they've become Hotshots and in, in, in, in, in the church. And that's, that's fine.

11 in particular, he did his he was crazy. He was really crazy,

but he's fine. He's married, kids, he's a he's, he's a lawyer now and, and, and, and and that's a resource. But his thing, I think that, that, that, that the honesty, that the, the, the what I put into it when I do it is more important than, than the words. Absolutely.

And

so the question is, how many home groups should you have?

I just like the word sponsor,

just like a vote sponsor. I, you know, the truth of the matter is that my sponsor was only there in the beginning while he was for other stuff, but other people had profound stuff to say also.

And and really, you know,

even the guys that were that died, they had stuff to say.

The word sponsor I don't like and and I will let my words speak as to what is my Home group.

I if you're going for a mount, I think you're losing lose your your your misunderstanding something. If you're going for amount of sponsees and stuff, I've counted sponsees, it's of no use.

And what breaks my heart is that while I was still doing that, there was this one guy. I gave him an assignment and he came back with it and I didn't have time for him. I have no idea where he is today. That's a lost chance,

so I will balance out. If there's fifth step time, I won't go to the Friday night meeting or whatever fits, you know.

You know, in Iceland where it was really clear I didn't do his step. I would do his step after the meeting, before the meeting, but after the meeting. So amount, no. Are you doing whatever you can, you know, because that newcomer has is a seeing a newcomer. He can teach you stuff.

Other questions.

Yeah, I yes, I do. I, I, I

a friend of mine, he couldn't do. Yeah, sorry. 12 step. Yeah. The question was, do we help out other members of the group other than newcomers when you when you see them goes quickly. Do you, do you do that?

I, I, I do, yes. I, I am not that familiar with, with Scandinavian culture. Iceland is not Scandinavia, by the way. And there is difference and and,

but in Iceland, I would do you know a friend of mine couldn't sponsor any newcomers anymore because he was a guy, was a alcohol counselor.

And I told them, dude, you're about to get drunk,

you're about to about to drink again, you know, there are no ifs and buts about that. And he did.

Not right away, but he did

so, but I at least told them I at least you know, I gave him a fair, fair warning and that was from inside. I was straight out of my ass, like we, we, you know, say in Icelandic, but

the was that, that gas station I broke into. I was, I had made the first approach and the lady wasn't at home and yada, yada, yada. And, and, and I come back to town and I it's, it's my meeting and, and I go there and there's this old timer sober from 88 and I tell him about the thing and he says.

Explain the explain the situation. He just says relax dude we don't need to do immense like that.

Years later he is about to go nuts with his own unmade amends. Current and not old stuff, current stuff. And we go to the steps together. And and my experience from that, what I took away from that I I remember what the immense were about. But but during the 5th step I felt something that he put into words. Thereafter I felt his chest open and poison come out.

That's that's the experience that I had. I felt it happen and he put it into the words when we were finishing the 5th step after the my Home group

the next day.

People who are sober a long time suffered too.

This is all about current action,

not

yeah, nothing else I guess.

Can somebody repeat the question for me?

Hi, sorry I can't hear you. Can somebody repeat the question closer to me?

Oh yeah, sorry. What's the earliest you can pick a Home group in your sobriety?

Well, people change home groups all the time

I guess. You know, the only thing you need to do need for to start a group is a resentment and a coffee pot. OK.

And that's that's just the way it is. That's that's a wisdom by the way,

earliest

choose

day one, day one. One of the service commitments at that group in Iceland is, is, is the, the, what do you call it the Iron Curtain or something? It was just basically guys behind the door. You know, it would be, would be guys on both sides and you would need to shake their hands on their on your way in. And that was a service. If you can do that service in a group and and and and and then once in a while some old timer would come and say, I want to be elected

the creator responsibility and and the guys would just go, do you have a pair of hands?

And that was, that was, you know, that was the requirement to be a greater at that group until one guy who didn't have any hands showed up

and, and we would shake his cloth basically.

That's an amazing story, by the way, His, his story is, is amazing. And he has no hands. He has one stiff plastic one and, and, and a mechanical claw on the high on the right one. He's waiting. He's, he's, he lives in France now. He's waiting, waiting to get

for somebody to die, to get a new set of arms. You know and

you know, if you can participate, call it your Home group.

You know, if you can put this a bit, call it your Home group if you're waiting to get elected to an office,

if, if that's the mood in in that group, No, you can't do it because yeah, no, this is, this is a a, this is, this is, this is chaos, organised chaos. OK, We we

day one is my answer.

The question is the importance of doing group inventory every two years from an outside person.

Well, the norm in Iceland is to do group inventory once a month,

and that's something that came from a group in the States called the Men's Deaths Application Group.

And

the questions at least came from them. We would later change the questions.

Doing it often and badly, I think is better than doing it thoroughly. We don't get guys to show up on to the, you know, groups that do that once a year

in Iceland. They have a hard time getting people to come to participate on a non meeting night.

You know, they, if you, you know, it's get the guys that are out of there to be honest with themselves and, and you know, we have a, we make up systems and stuff and belief systems about stuff the correct way and yadda, yadda, yadda. And we are fine. You can always be right, OK? You can always be right if you yourself decide the terms OK,

and you can always be right

if you have to. And there's another one, and this is one of my favorites, favorite one lighters. If you have to rationalize it, you are wrong.

Okay, rationalizing it is fine, but if you have to rationalize it for it to work, then you are wrong, whatever it may be.

So I, I, my experience has been, you know, I, I,

they don't really do group inventories in Norway that I know of, but in Iceland they do it all the time.

And that's the only thing I know,

an outside view we can, we are really good at keeping up appearances to other people. And so I think, I think, you know, in general, you know, being honest with yourself and what you're doing is good stuff.

Any anyone more hands? OK, let me take a break.