Carrying the message at the June NOLA workshop in New Orleans, LA

I'm Zach. I'm an alcoholic.

There's going to be a panel workshop broken up into four sections. We have our Nor Kay, whose name I butchered from Iceland here, and he's going to talk to us about a couple different things. First, the first panel will be carrying the message where and how to find drunks and how to handle a wet drunk. He will talk on this for 40 minutes. After the 40 minutes, there will be 20 minutes for questions.

Just so everybody understands,

a question is a sentence worded or expressed so as to elicit information.

OK, so I give you, I give you Arnor.

Yep, just need to get my voice out of the way.

Zach, he was going to give me a piece of paper on the on the on the stuff that I was going to talk about and he said sure, no problem. And snow to be found.

There you go.

And

yeah, yeah, this is handwriting good.

So is this on?

Yeah, OK, good.

I was

like some of you, you, you, you know, I've seen your faces during this week. I've been nationalized. I've been had speak because I'm fresh blood. I'm I'm fresh meat.

You haven't heard me before. And, and, and, and the, the, the, the if you're, if you're familiar with a with a word trolling, you know, as in, as in,

you know, being a bully online,

the bullies that that told me to, to take a detour to, to New Orleans. They, they said, yeah, we're going to, we're going to have you do this.

And I

I'm I'm not an expert on alcoholism.

I do, however, have a few thoughts on the subject

and, and hopefully a bit fewer words than thoughts.

I, I remember that this thing here reminds me of the of the time that that I'm, I, I get sober and, and late late 2000 or late last century, as I, as I like to put it, and I come to into a A and I don't like anything that anybody has to say about anything

about anything. I'm comparative when I, when I meet

my my Wrangler here at a meeting, I remember that he,

well, his version of the story is that that Oh yes, he's not a step guy. He's not going to he's not want not not one of those.

Is that fundamentalists and and and that that was because I looked like a serial killer.

I and I and I was just the glint in my eyes. I said angry young man.

And the reason I'm talking about this and the reason I, I, I spoke about this during the week is that I don't want, and that's the last thing I want

is I don't want to seem like somebody who brings the stone tablets down the mountain.

I don't want to do.

I don't want to tell you what to do.

I don't think I, I, I was once drinking Icelandic moonshine London or, or, or Countryman as we as it's called. And I come out of a blackout in downtown Reykjavik and I am discussing

religion or arguing religion and, and, and, and, and a lot of delusional ideas on religion with guys that are are members of our of our congregation called Maritas. And maritas are are known in in the Nordic countries.

They basically help a lot of

Ivy drug addicts. I come out of a blackout and I'm winning the argument. That's the mindset I bring into a A

I don't want to be told what to do.

The guys that told me what to do, that I needed to get a sponsor, that I needed to do something, did not.

They didn't impress me.

The guys that that, that I came into A and I and I and I went

impress me mother hawkers, you know, just tell me, tell me something I haven't I haven't heard. Show me something I haven't seen,

because you know, faith worse than death is better than death,

and faith better than death is worse than death. You know, you haven't seen my hell,

you haven't done what I've done and I haven't seen yours.

And

you know, that, that was a mindset that I, that I came into a A with

and, and, and, and if anybody, all the guys that did sound like experts that did know exactly how to do things. How, how long to pray, how many meetings to make? How many

you know? What constitutes and amends? What constitutes

a thorough inventory?

They didn't impress me as much as the guys that didn't want to do it but did it anyway.

There's this one one guy and he's still sober and he's doing fine. He has a family. He told, he shared the story during his talk that he, he had this small VHSC camera with a small VHS tapes and he videotaped himself after coming back home and, and, you know, pointing at the camera and, and, and, and basically shouting at himself,

Don't do it again. Don't do it again.

It's not worth it. It's not worth it. Then he took the video out. We want we want the tape put it in the adapter for the VHS and put it on a on a shelf by the by the door and and a piece of paper saying what's this before you go back out.

The reason he was sober. I I haven't done that. I haven't done that. I'm one of the delusional Alcoholics. I don't know. I have no idea this is this is wrong or this is not working. I, I have no idea what, what,

I don't know what's wrong with me when I come into a A. But he shared the story of making amends that changed my life.

He made amends to his uncle that had sexually molested him.

He made amends to him. He didn't go and say sorry uncle, that you molested me. He said, sorry, uncle, that I, I used to talk about you behind your back and use your sickness against you to, to get me free of to to both basically redeem me in my alcoholism.

And that is something while you're there. And this only happens to the fellowship. This doesn't happen on speaker tapes. This doesn't happen in the book,

but this happens on a one to one. We're going to speaker, speaker meeting session and that basically

nooked and paved my mindset on what this stuff is about. What I hear is about

at that at that point, I'm doing inventory and I'm doing something and

it seems as if, as if if you're walking, there's not a lot of hills here, New Orleans, but it, it, you know, it seems as if you can do staff work a certain way. As long as you're working walking uphill,

you're walking uphill. And as as long as it's hot or tough or

strenuous,

you

you do find your sober your your, your membership in a makes sense.

But when you reach the top or not the top, it's not a summit, but it's more like a plateau. OK,

then things get funky.

I come into AAI don't want anything anybody has to give me. I I fight the guys. I, I, I do. I read this this book here is the the translation of the big book that I grew up with. I read this book defensively to find the loopholes. I don't want to do anything until a critical mass of people have shared

stuff that is

a bit more than physical allergy,

mental obsession, spiritual malady and we. And there is a solution.

What?

And it's here in chapter

and the second chapter, page 18.

But the X problem drinker who has found this solution, who is properly armed with facts about himself, can generally win the entire confidence of another alcoholic in a few hours. Until such an understanding is reached, little or nothing can be accomplished.

It's facts about myself, you know, I

and the facts about myself have been the same the whole time. I do the exact same step.

I do use the same exact same big book,

but I'm a bit more unrelenting. Ruthless or grim

than I used to be, because I thought alcoholism was just about, you know, fixing alcoholism was just about getting sober. And it's not

like if you if you heard me during the week, it is not

I I went batshit crazy. That's why the troll in the back, he, he, he,

he really liked that there was another new guy coming into a a that wasn't working Steph, because it fit his, you know, way of doing a A.

And

so I, I do step work and I start with my biggest amends because I, I knew I, I in my, in my, in my, in my fifth step.

I knew that if I wouldn't tell my this guy who was hearing my fifth step about

the that thing, that one thing,

a A would never be real. It would never be authentic.

It just wouldn't. So

of course that was the last thing I mentioned. And he was eating French fries and like, like it was going out of style. And then he he lost his appetite

and he said you can drink on that for a long time.

You had to have something you can drink on. There had to be something that you can drink on, on that for a long time. So and that thing that, that, that thing. So I start doing my immense, but I'm still trying to fix myself. But what does the big book say about that? It says that that's not an end in and of itself.

Our main purpose is to fit ourselves to be of maximum service to God and people around us.

And, and you know,

so there is a method to the madness. There's a method to the madness. I'm not just, you know, I don't have anything scripted. I have a pic book and I have some, some squiggling from, from, from Zach here. And I have my experience and I'm translating on the fly. You know,

I, I, this is not, this is not something that is set in stone or, or, or licked into marble. Like like we, some of us say in Iceland. This is not,

there is no way what, what the method, however, is, you know, I, I, I would say in, in, in that meeting and I get these visions. I've, I've, you know, I've, I've, I've started telling about my vision stories. But I'm sitting in a meeting and somebody's at the podium and I feel like, like there's a, like there's a, there's a puzzle hovering in the, in the, in the air in front of the podium. And, and, and he says, yeah, and, and that physical allergy. And I was stamping on boxes and I was, I was, I was going nuts. And I was, you know,

that's the physical allergy. And I would get a piece of the puzzle. And then then he would say, yeah. And then I wrote everybody I down, I hate it. And la, la, la, la. And I got a piece of the puzzle and I got a piece of the puzzle. I got a piece of the puzzle. And, and during the meeting, which is usually an hour and 15 minutes, you know, I would get a piece of the puzzle, but there would be something missing in the, in the in the middle. And doing a, a as a guest as a guest as, as a receiver

was the reason that I didn't see or didn't get that last piece of the puzzle. Because, you know, if we go to page one of the big book first printing, which was the doctor's opinion it then the doctor says

in the course of his third treatment, he acquired certain certain ideas concerning a possible means of recovery as part of his rehabilitation

OK his own. That is, he commenced to present his conceptions to other Alcoholics, comma impressing upon them that they must do likewise with still others.

Period new sentence. This has become the basis of a rapidly growing fellowship of these men and their families.

There's a program of Alcoholics Anonymous and it's in the Big Book, and it is expanded upon in in the 12:00 and 12:00. And we get a lot of contacts from Passaton.

We get a lot of contacts from Pastor Don and Doctor Bob and Lugolo Thomas

and and then, you know, the really nerdy of us. If if you know any a a history buff dude, talk to them,

get the stories, go to what's called big a history lovers or something. It's a website and and it talks about

it talks about the story of Fred, what the context of that story is. And it's because you know, these are words on a paper like right, But this is just like a recipe for bread. There is no

this recipe only

acquires meaning its fullest meaning when you bake a bread out of the recipe. And if you only bake a bread for yourself, you are losing out.

OK, so I I've started doing steps and I've done something and and I feel like Wiley Cody like like it's like everybody is going beep, beep and and I just

and no, really and and and guys are are that have been short, a lot long. You know, they, I have by that time I've started working steps. So I'm basically eight months sober and I've started doing my immense at 10

and these guys are flourishing. And I'm not

because why? They are working with others. They are carrying a message

and I didn't feel like I could.

I didn't feel like I could because I hadn't learned all the tricks. I hadn't really didn't really know how to to show them how to do inventory. My first four step inventory was

random.

It was, it was, it was, you know, you know, there's a, there's a bit of bit of force and chaos. It wasn't even even chaos. It was more, it was more like a Jackson Pollock than than a than a than a than than Picasso. You know, it's more like just whatever and and

and I talked to my talked to my sponsor about, you know, why that why that? Why the hell do do you know why, why don't? Why do I feel like that? I've been so pretend months. Why, Why do I, why do I feel like that?

And he said it's time to sit down and and read the next chapter together. And I go to his house

and we sit in his kitchen and and he says OK, go to page. Well, what is here 89

and and read and and he's there and he's, you know, just going from he he's an asshole. You know, he's he's he he really, really, he really, really is an asshole. He, he is

he, he, he. He has this thing that he seems to watch himself more than he pays attention to others.

He says OK, read. Then I read Chapter 7 Working with others.

Practical experience shows that nothing will so much ensure immunity from drinking as intensive work with other Alcoholics. It works when others other activities fail. This is our And then he would go stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, go back, go out. Read again. Yeah, OK. Practical experience shows that nothing will so much ensure immunity from drinking.

As intensive work with other Alcoholics, it works when other activities fail. This is our And then it will stop me again and have me read it, read it again. And then he would I would read it

when I would ensure immunity from drinking as intensive work with other Alcoholics. And then he stopped and said, what do you think that means?

OK, I'm OK. I know enough people in a A who know enough of the history of a A to know that this is not up

grammatically correct.

This is not grammatically correct English. Not all of it. OK, It's not

quality piece of literature.

It's not the guy who wrote it. Basically most of it. He had four years. Soba,

which is not a lot today

heat there is not a lot of insight. There's not a lot of, you know, this is not like, this is not like a, like a religious text that has been polished and,

and made better over the centuries. Like, like the, like the European fables, you know, fables like, like, like Little Red Riding Hood and Iron John. I recommend that women who want to want to, Yeah, are desperate enough to, to, to check out why they're so fucked up, why they feel fucked up. And I only mean the fucked up woman, you know, check out, check out the original Little Red Riding Hood. It's good stuff, The Disney version.

The Disney version is is

very PC, OK,

the paddle with with Little Red Riding Hood, eating her grandmother's innards and drinking the blood. It's good stuff and it tells a story. And this is not one of these pieces of literature. It's not that deep. It doesn't have all that stuff. It doesn't have the wisdom of the age is distilled into a few words like fables do. But at the same time, this book is written from a point of view.

They something amazing happened and it was amazing.

They didn't know what was going on. They didn't realize. They realized they had something big, so they started writing a book and this is the result

and they write practice their own practical experience shows that nothing will so much ensure immunity from drinking as intensive work with other Alcoholics. I, I hear, I heard people heard somebody at a meeting talk about Alcoholic 3 #3 his name was Bill Dodson. I I highly recommend, I highly recommend Alcoholic 2.5, the one that didn't get sober.

Doctor Bob's son shares about that in in one of his talks,

but he eventually got sober. That guy, you know,

there's a,

but they, their experience was that if

you work with other Alcoholics and not just work with other Alcoholics, but intensively work with other Alcoholics,

that nothing, you know, no prayer, no meditation, no inventory, no nothing, nothing. It works when and in the in the in the, in the multilift version of the big book, other spiritual activities fail. They removed that from the first version for some reason.

It works if you really want to be sober, work with other Alcoholics, work intensively with them. If you if you want, you can talk to Zach about what intensive means. But I'm going with it's a lot, you know, it's a lot. It's not something that is easy or it's not, not something that is like we say in Islamic, it's not, it's not something neat. It's not something that that fits my schedule. It's not something that fits with the rest of my life

necessarily. So some of it does, some of it doesn't. It's intensive, OK, And then it then it continues. Then we have a new paragraph which is in, in, in, in, in literature means there's a new thought. OK, Life will take on new meaning.

And I would get that last piece of the puzzle right?

To watch people recover, to see them help others towards loneliness vanish, to see a fellowship grow up about you, which means that you need to be in a fellowship to watch it grow. You know it. This is not a solo program. Sorry. It takes a village to raise a child. That's just just the way. Just the way it is OK

to have a host of friends. This is an experience you must not miss. Who? Oh, the guy who is going to be a sponsor? No, the AA member who wants to be sober. He does not want to miss this stuff. OK,

we know you will not want to miss it.

We know

frequent contact with newcomers and with each other is the bright spot of our lives. And then in the multilateral version there is another sentence that very remote and it goes like this. The kick you will get is tremendous.

The multi lift version, for those who don't know, is the original manuscript, that's the proper name, is the multi lit version, that's the manuscript that passed around. The kick you will get is tremendous

because you know, I,

I thought I had a problem. I'm going to my first meeting in the car that I bought from mom paid the first payment, the down payment, but nothing more. And I, I, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm feeling sorry for myself, not having a job, not having a girlfriend, not getting things my way. And now they want to want to tell me it's that I'm also an alcoholic.

I didn't come here

to I came here. I don't. It doesn't even make any sense. My train of thought at that time didn't make any sense. It was just,

it was gumbo. It was, it was coleslaw. It was just, yeah, whatever.

And but

there is a there is a there is a thing here in, in, in chapter five. You probably, some of you may, may have read it before.

Rarely have you seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to the simple program. Usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. And I thought, yeah, this is about honesty. This is about not stop. Yeah, I should stop stealing at work. You know, it's about. No, it's about

you have to do a a in a way that makes sense.

You have to do a A that is not just filling in the forms and it's not about just, you know, dotting the IS and crossing the TS. It has to be something and and and and and being on the receiving end of a a in a in strong a A like I got sober in that was a strong fellowship. They would call you out on your shit and they would hackle in meetings, but they would hackle old timers. Only,

you know, and you know,

yeah,

you can learn a lot of stuff, right.

But it's, it's, it's, it's, it's nothing. It is in the grand scheme of things, when I look back, it's nothing. It's all, it's not. It's just enough to get me interested. Yes, sure, I wanted to, to, to, to be debt free. Sure. I wanted to, to be able to sleep without killing everybody, you know, during the night, you know, you know,

sure, I, I wanted that stuff. And, and I got enough personal experience, like the one, the story I shared in the shared in the beginning

that I thought, yeah, maybe this is something that I should take a look at. And no, I don't want to because it's God and it's something and something. And you haven't, you know, those guys haven't even been to a Bible course like me, you know, they, they, they knew nothing. Okay. And,

but honesty is, is

honest with results. How is it going? Honest with your train of thought? How is it going? I, I, my sponsor, he, I'm a, I'm six months sober and I'm, I'm, I'm talking to my sponsor and, and, and I, I, I, I, I'm driving my car, my stolen car. You know,

it's mom's car. She doesn't need the money right now. And you know, it's OK, but, and I stopped at this gas station where there's a vacuum and, and something, something, and I'm talking on the phone like this. And I'm,

I'm going through all this shit in the car and I'm taking out the old bottles and throwing, throwing them in the trash. And, and my sponsor is talking to me about

that. Basically he's giving me a summary of what the stats are about and he's up to step 9. And it's about cleaning up around you.

And I go, yeah, like I'm doing right now.

And

he could have told me, oh, you're, you know, I'm six months over. I've been to a meeting every day. I've been, you know, I'm and I'm clueless, right. And he could have said,

you know, oh, you're such an idiot. You know, he would be fully justified in saying, oh, you're such a, you know, you're such a, you know, fucked up or whatever. And but

he said yes, but there is a bit more.

This book in your shelf

is a tool

waiting to be used. It's a tool.

The steps, even the steps are not an end in and of themselves.

There are guides to progress.

They are not something that I worship.

I know some really, really, really interesting stuff

with that you can do with inventory.

I and I shared about that in the at the meeting this week. But or, or a bit of it, but

it's not a magic bullet. It's not a silver bullet. The silver bullet,

you know, my membership in a A is about what I do for others. That's 80% of what I what of my life, of my recovery is what I do for others. It's about carrying a message and it's about it's about one-on-one. It's not from a podium like this. It's not sure I can go up in a, in a meeting in Oslo and give them a 5 minute version of something. But

you know, sitting down with a newcomer is the most important thing. And

so

if we, if we, if I paraphrase what I've said, the most important thing, the first thing, the requirements to be able to carry a message so that the other end will receive it. The first item is.

You need to have time to do it.

There are two schools of thought, right? There's one that organizes and, and, and plans everything to the extreme and then come back with a bipolar 2 diagnosis. OK. And then there's the guys that are don't plan anything and they can't be relied on. We need to do something in the middle. If I don't have, you know, I, I go, I use a, my, my method and that's just my method. I go to, I live in, in Norway and it's totally different. There is totally different from Iceland, just totally different.

But I have to do something with that. I need to be able to

do AA in a way, in a way that makes sense to me and, and, and, and that doesn't mean that it has to be on my terms. OK, so I show up at a meeting with a cup of coffee

and from time to time

the trawl will snatch a newcomer and we'll go out, eat with them and we take it from there. The most important thing is that I have time.

If I don't have time, it doesn't matter how excellent my program is, It's of no benefit. And my excellent program for myself is not really worth anything for me

really. It's it's I've, I have, you know,

I've done some cool shit in a A and it doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter it

I don't, I can't really go. And ah, yeah, but four years ago I was so ah,

no, it's what am I doing now? It's the RPM RPMS in the dashboard. Not not, you know, miles travelled new. That only means that you have a shitty car if you you know,

and it's not the speed you're travelling the gearbox. Yeah, I'll, I'll take this bitch up to up to the 13th gear. No, it how effective you are. No, I don't get any piece from that. I don't get any any I don't get anything from that. I I get for, for, for for my effort, the RPMS on the engine.

That's the return. OK, I need to have time and I need to have

fucked up my life because nobody is, is going to listen to anything I have to say. Coming from a place of yeah, but I never did that. I, I, I never did that because you see, I'm, I'm so smart. I don't really have alcoholism. You know, they won't trust anybody except they will. Only it's easier to trust somebody who has screwed up their life. So be open about the screw screwiness. Be open about it,

you know?

You know, that's why I talk about peeing my pants and puking on every square inch of my body. Except between my aesthetics, you know, it's, it's because that's, that's the, that's the kind of guy I am,

you know, I screwed up. And, and, and that story from, from Denmark, you know, finally, when I get to the get to get to the, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to go to the school, you know, I, I go to Denmark, I go to a priest in Iceland and I cry, I'm in Denmark the next day and I'm going to go get an education. And I, I, I get a place to stay. And, and I, I'm feeling sorry for myself in the bus that I have to take this route every morning to school and yadda, yadda, yadda. And, and, and I go to down to the square and, and I,

you know, I'm standing there. This is town square, small town, you know, nice, pleasant town outside of Copenhagen called the glass AXA, if you want to look it up on a map. And, and I'm standing there and there's this, this brick walled glass

tree fence or whatever around the compound. And I can, I see there's a road into the compound and there's a sign and it says office. And I'm standing there and I'm, I'm thinking to myself,

I will never, ever cross this road.

And I turn around and I go to my room and I drink some more beer, but beer that you could get 8 beers for a dollar. OK, the March you're in, after taste beer, you know, and thinking that I'm totally in control of my life. OK, these stories,

they show that sharing these stories shows that you have, that you have alcoholism, that you, you are a man who has lost the power of choice and drink. If you've lost the power of choice and drink, you are OK with what I call the requirement #2

#3

you need to have some done something about it.

There is nothing in this book

about that, about getting yourself a sponsor, let alone

then. There's nothing in this book about your sponsor having to have to be two years over.

It's nothing at all. There is not even a hint in the in the direction of getting yourself a sponsor.

Not a hint. If you find it, let me know. I've I've read this book a lot in in three languages. You know, It's not, it's not that.

It's mostly about, you know, it's the invisible robot. That story you guys have, you know, just get in the boat and roll, you know? Yeah, but it doesn't make any sense. Yeah, but let's hope it dude, You know it's.

And when that is there, you are able to carry a message that is

many. It's an order of magnitude more important that you get someone's trust

then the fancies man. See stuff you know the consequence list or or the power lesson and powerlessness list or whatever. All that stuff is secondary.

Get them to trust you. And you can't do it if you come down the mountaintop from the mountaintop with it. You know, I'm here as a fuck up, you know? I, I, I how how do you prepare for this? You know, I drink moonshine, OK? That's the stuff I do, you know, I pee my pants to to, you know, until the salt from my urine makes that makes that mattress crunchy. OK, you know,

I'm, I, I, I'm not an expert. I'm just trying to do my very best and I use this book.

I use this book and I doubt myself and I doubt the stuff that I hear in the rooms. I doubt everything and I try anything.

Thanks.

So now will be the question and answer period. So how we will do this? You will raise your hand answer the question either myself or or nor will repeat it into the microphone. And Please remember, a question is a sentence worded or expressed so as to.

Illicit information will go by show of hands. Yes, Sir.

Hi Shane.

Shane wants to know if this is an honest program.

What an honest program. I honestly don't know what that means, but

so

I thought honesty was about not stealing and, and not lying and, and not something but, but my experience shows that it's a bit more, you know, I'm, I'm responsible for my actions, my reactions and my inactions and, and it's I need to be honest in all three.

I, the definition I use is based on an Icelandic expression and it translates really difficult, but it's Stuntust Squadron. It checks out.

Think of you. Think of your program as something that you write. You know that you write down to like up

books, you know, not, not a book, but but you put it on the books. You, you write something down and you have 24 hours and, and you have a child and you have something, you have a, you know, you have to go to a, to a iron blung, you know, 2 hours a day or whatever. You have stuff that you absolutely need to do.

The honesty of it is being so open with it that you can write it down everything you do and show it to somebody else. You don't have to show it to everybody else. It's just that if anybody finds out,

that's OK. Yeah. He didn't have time to make his home crook make it to a meeting at his Home group every week because he has his child every week,

you know, and, and yeah, if if you don't have a child and, and you pretend like you do, you're dishonest, You know,

it's, it's not about lying. You know that we have two different words for honesty and lying. And there's a reason for that, you know,

it's, it's, it's honesty. It's more about doing everything you do

with a whole heart

and, and if you if you if you want to do this program have asked, that is allowed, but the results are basically dictated by your honesty. You know how fully you know how

how deep down into the ground you press the plow

to give you an expression.

Hey, my name is MM.

When when when is the time to talk to the

good question? OK, so to repeat the question, he Mike asked what was a good time to start sponsoring and and to give you my OK. And this is not I'm not just saying this to be funny

as soon as you stop throwing up

a good time. So if if there's a book called how it worked and it's out of print, but you can get the PDF for free online and it tells the story of Clarence Snyder. The the the guy, the founder of a a in Cleveland. And he was he was an OK, just to give you

a summary of his story, He's drinking. He's the reason that they have bars in the in the cellar windows in the Midwest.

He is the reason that that they put extra, extra padlocks on, on, on on bars. You know, after closing he his story, he's basically drink in in the end, he's drinking something from tins that can only be bought in wallpaper stores. He is basically spastic from drinking. And he comes to Doctor Bob and he has this, you know, and he heard about the, the Cleveland now the, the Akron axe murderer.

And he, you know, he's paranoid and he's the axe murderer. So he splits, you know, come comebacks to, to something two months later or sometime later. And, and he says, I'm willing to take a chance of him, of Doctor Bob being the axe murderer. So because he's had it, he's had had, had had it with drinking and, and he wakes up with Doctor Bob screaming at him. Do you believe in God? And, and he, he gives out. Yeah. Well, what is belief? And, you know, when do you believe? And, and, and and Doctor Bob yells at him again. Do you?

And and and guy answers, yeah, I guess I have to great. That's just that's the that's the answer I want. It says Bob. And they go down underneath and, and after a week, he's basically just getting the cramps out of his body, you know, the the stiffness.

Then Doctor Bob tells, tells him, go to Cleveland. And while he's asking, what should I do now that I'm sobered up? Go to Cleveland and fix rummies.

And that's the answer. And he goes to Cleveland and he goes goes to this to this bum house and he finds the perfect newcomer, a guy who had had pierced his pants and he was frozen to the to the ground. And he scrapes him up and takes him to the guest house he's staying at. And he thoughts him and he called him the perfect newcomer because he had something called alcohol paralysis. He he could only swallow and blink his eyes

and

and and and and

according to the book and what Mitchell told me,

that guy didn't ever drunk again. If I remember correctly, a good time is well like 1111 American in my group in in Oslo says how about right now?

Yeah, do you need to do Mens? Yeah. How about right now? Do you do you need to do inventory? Yeah. How about right now? Now is always a good time to do start this stuff.

How does Ben

like messed up stuff I used to do but they're still really sick and still screwing up constantly. Should you be open and honest with them about that considering it may look up to you? I did a sponsorship for all.

Yeah. OK. So to repeat the question, which is a really good long question, should should you be open with the guys you're working with,

you know and do do do do you sacrifice your stature you may have in their life? Absolutely.

You know, like, like we used to say back in the day, nobody's perfect. You know, it's, it's,

I have a guy you can talk about too about that. But anyway,

so if if if you're if you're carrying a message, you know from a from a point of your view of perfection, you know, crossing all the TS and doting all the is, I think you're missing the point.

There is an author

called Ernie Kurtz. He wrote a talk his doctorate thesis about Alcoholics Anonymous and his second book is called The Spirituality of Imperfection.

It influenced me a lot. There are three books that influenced me, big book, this book and another Spirituality and Imperfection and another book. You don't have to be, you know, you don't need to look like a model if it's basically, you know, if he looks up to you, that's fine. That's great. You know, you have to be able to, you know, carry your your tail feathers with praise, right? You know, hold, you know, you need to be, you know,

and and there's a fable on that. We we can, we can, we can talk about that later. But the iron John, the paper I mentioned is about that. It's about

looking at your scars and your heart with beauty and see the beauty of it and your stumbling way, your bumbling ways are the grace of this program.

It's you know, the spiritual experience is not just for the guys who who who you know, give the the program perfect lip service. It's not,

you know, it's it we, if you have, if you have humbly given your character defects to God, whatever he may or may not remove is you. And that's this way you're supposed to be.