Steps 4 and 5 at the Stateline Retreat in Primm, NV December 9th

Everybody. I'm Sheldon Fatty. I'm an alcoholic

and I'm trying really hard to give up taking credit for miracles. So I won't take any credit for our life at home.

We we are truly blessed because of Alcoholics autonomous. This is a big deal getting to participate at at this conference. I I'm lucky enough and and and blessed enough and honest enough to be asked to participate in Alcoholics Anonymous from time to time at different conferences and events. But to be here with you guys is

is very special for me. I'm on a a program with people who I've been listening to ever since the first day I got sober. I, I look at my name on the list of speakers this weekend and I feel terribly out of place. It is a

a real honor to be here. I really enjoyed everybody's talk so far. And Ron, I clean up pretty well too. You know, neither of us will ever look as good as Mildred or Katie, but we're we're doing pretty good, aren't we? We, we, we, we're doing pretty good. I

step 4I I, I remember when I was brand new and Alcoholics Anonymous and, and maybe you guys had the same experience, but I'm, I'm sitting in meetings of Alcoholics Anonymous and I'm, I'm trying to get sober and I'm a slipper. I'm a in and out kind of guy. I'm the guy that comes to Alcoholics Anonymous,

stay sober for a couple of three or four weeks and then gets drunk. And then I go out there and I drink until I can't stand it no more and I get chased back into Alcoholics novice. And this time I really mean it. This time it's different, all right? And I'm going to stay sober. I'm going to do everything I can And, and maybe I sit with someone and we talk about step one

and then I train and then I come back and I'm driven back in the rooms and maybe we talk about Step 2 and I drink and maybe we should talk about step three and I drink. And it was explained to me that what I was doing is something that lots of people and Alcoholics Anonymous have been doing ever since Alcoholics Anonymous first was formed. And it's that 123 drink, the a, a walls, 123 drink, 123 drink. And and I did that for a long time

and I don't understand why it is that I keep going back and drinking. I don't understand why it is that some of you come to Alcoholics Anonymous and you put the plug in the jug and you get up at a podium and you got your best suit on and you say my name Sheldon, I'm an alcoholic. I haven't had a drink for a while. My lifes great. Thanks for letting me share. And I'm thinking bully for you.

I haven't had a drink for a long time either. We're up to 63 days

and and I'm in agony and my life ain't getting good. And if someone don't change, I'm going to go drink again. And not because I want to, not because I'm playing, but because I'm driven by something that I can't stop. I got I got this thing that I love how Bill describes it, it, it's like the most benign sounding phrase, this restless, irritable discontent. I'm losing my mind. I mean, I just

fool I, if I, if this is what sobriety feels like,

I, it ain't for me. I got this perception problem that when I'm talking to a guy that's 20 years sober, what I think is that for 20 years he's not going to drink, not going to drink, not going to drink, not going to drink. I'm not going to drink. I remember that. I am going to stay so bright. I really am because it's the only perception that I have. That's how I'm staying sober. And I think these guys that are 20 years sober have lived like that. And I'm thinking, poor guy,

you know, I mean, what is wrong with you?

And then you brag about it. You know, you're a nut is what you are. And then people in alcohol extonimus give me the answer. They say, you know, I'm sober today and I am sober today by the grace of God. I'm sober today because I found a power in Alcoholics Anonymous sufficient to give me relief from the thing that was driving me back to drink. And I found this power in Alcohol Anonymous. I choose to call him God. And I'm not this real holy roller type, but but so I call him God. You know who I'm talking about, right?

It's just kind of this easy word to use. And I but I got this power in my life and, and that's what enables me to stay sober. And I'm thinking, I did a second step. I prayed a third step. I should have found God. And sometimes in some meetings of Alcoholics Anonymous, people will give you a second or third step pitch

and you're left with the idea that you should find God in Step 2 or Step 3.

If that was the case, we'd have a four step program.

Step one, I'm powerless. Step 2, I need a power. Step three, say the prayer. Step 4, go hit on newcomer girls. All right,

'cause I got God now I got God in step three. I'm done. I can, I can go on to something else, maybe sell Amway, you know, anybody need any soap or lipstick? You know, I mean, I maybe I could do that, but I, but I don't find God there in my experience. In my experience, I got something blocking me from finding God, something that's in the way, something that's shutting me down. And I've tried,

you know, I'm a Jewish kid night and and and I grew up in the States, weird atheist, agnostic Jewish Home, which really what that means is that we know we're wrong.

We we we know the Jewish faith is full of beans. We're less wrong than you. You're completely crazy

and, and you grew up in this home like this and they tell you got to find God and I get real confused and I try all kinds of things, but so much so I get so desperate that at one point I'm talking to this guy who's got real strong faith. He's real strong Christian faith and he gives me this thing called a sinners prayer and I'm dying and I, I'm, I'm this guy now that when I'm at home by myself, I'm crying a lot. I'm, I'm doing a lot of drinking, I'm doing a lot of the other stuff and I'm crying a lot and I'm just depressed and I, I'm suicidal, but a coward, which is a very

hard combination to live with. You know, I, I'm just, I'm a rack and I, I'm in the shower and I think, oh, this prayer.

And they get out of the shower and I'm dripping wet and they grab this prayer and they start reading this prayer and water is dripping off me and the words are running and I'm crying. And I'm telling you, I mean it. I mean it in a way that I mean it like, like they've never meant nothing in my life. I mean it. And I say this prayer and I get off my knees and I look around.

Nothing. No angels, no harps, no bright lights, nothing. You know, I was never good with creeper weeds.

You know the stuff you take three hits, you wait an hour, you get stoned. I was never good. I smoked the whole bag and fall asleep because I I need something now. You know, I need to get lit and I say that sin is prayer and I don't get lit and I understand that God don't work for a guy like me, but but that's OK because I don't like me either. Why the hell would God like me? I don't like me either. For crying out loud. I'm not good enough for any of that stuff. I get sober this last time and I didn't tell you my sobriety age July 17th, 1996 and, and, and that's the day that

life began. And I get sober in July of 96. And I'm I'm talking to my sponsor and, and, and, and I've got this real clear memory. And I said to a couple weeks over and I said, look, man, I said, I've done 1-2 and three and if that's all you got, I'm going to go drink. And he handed me a worksheet that he'd written to help guys do the false step. And he it was right out of the big book of alcohol extonomas. It wasn't anything other than what's in our book. And he said, I want you to go and start work on this right away. I want you to call me as you go through the process and

go through the process. That's exactly what the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous says. It says gives me kind of this weird timeline of when to start this thing. It says next we launched. So, so right away, next we launched. I, I never knew that. I thought a step a year was the right kind of deal, you know, but, but, but you can't launch slowly. You imagine like, you know, I mean, what's the, what's the slowest you could launch 10,

98? It's still pretty quick, you know, in the grand scheme of things,

you know, so so he said, next we launched and we're going to do this work. And the reason we're going to do this work is because, you know, I've heard this cliche in a maybe you've heard this thing where when you do step three and you say, well, I can't turn my life over to God. And the old time I kind of laughed at you. And he says, well, you know, it's only a decision, right? Three frogs on a log. You ever heard this one? One jumps off how many frogs are on the log and you go two. They go, no,

only three, still 3

because it was only a decision. Oh, well, I believe that if the frog ever stuck took step 6, you'd hear a splash, right? Because that's what I'm willing to act like God's in my life. So how do I get from three to six? What's the journey that takes me from a guy that's willing to have God be in my life to a guy that's actually doing work and acting like a guy that's got God in his life? What's the journey from 3:00 to 6:00?

And the journey is what we're going to try and cover in a short amount of time. Today

is the journey that I take hopefully a little bit begin from here to here. You know, in step three, I was laughing step three. And Katie did a fantastic job of step three. Fantastic job. In step three, I thought I was going to read narrative about how I get to God and I don't. I read narrative of selfishness and self centeredness. I read a narrative about why I better find one.

That's what I read in step three, because because you know, God ain't lost and he's going to show up when I'm willing for him to show up. What I read in Step 3 is a narrative about why

a guy like me better find God. I'm selfish, self-centered, self obsessed. I'm trying to run the show. I'm all this stuff that Katie talked about and it and it ain't working. You know, I'm a nut. I mean, if it was working, I wouldn't have been in that club in July 96 looking for help. You know how you doing? Everything's fine. I drink a little too much, but everything else is fine. You know what? It wasn't working. So how do I go about taking this action? And we're very, very blessed that we have what but what Bill calls clear cut

actions. Nothing is left up to guess here. You know, I first hear about the full step in Alcohol Anonymous and I hear a couple of things from the fellowship. First thing I hear is

just wait till you do your fault step. Oh my God. And I'm already terrified of you people, you know, and now I'm like oh God. And then the other thing I hear is, and if you don't do it right, you'll die.

Be afraid and prepare to die is what I heard.

And here's 18 different ways you can do one. I got one from my psychiatrist, got one from my from my therapist, got one from my treatment center, got one from my sponsor that had never read the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous, Got one from the Fellowship has 19 different ways to work a false step and if you don't do it right, you're dead.

Great,

I was directed to the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous, House told Sheldon. If your problem is alcoholism, the solution is in the Big Book of Alcohol Extonymus. Do that first. If you still need any help afterwards, then we can go look for some. But at least first let's treat your alcoholism with Alcoholics Anonymous. You might need more later, you might not. My experience is that I didn't but start with Alcoholics Anonymous. So it says in our Big Book,

it says that we got to do this because if we didn't, it could have our third step could have little permanent effect.

And you know, we tell this lie to each other in a I'm just sober one day at a time. Like all I care about is till midnight, right? I mean, I do stay sober one day at a time. The work I do, the actions I take, the one I'm focused on, why I stay sober. I'm not going to worry about if I'm going to be sober in three years. I'm worried about being sober today. But I want to stay sober one day at a time, forever.

I got a nine year old kid. I wanna be sober at his wedding. I mean, that's not kid yet. Kid ourselves. I want permanent sobriety one day at a time, and this can have little permanent effect unless it once followed by strenuous effort to get rid of the things inside of ourselves that have been blocking us. I better do this because otherwise what's gonna happen is what's happened every other time I've come into a A. I'm gonna show up. I'm gonna be so hell I need help. A month later, the buzz of doing a third step's gonna wear off. I'm gonna be locked himself and I'm gonna have to go

again, so I better do the work so I can permanently stay sober. One day at a time, that's what I'm looking for. One day at a time, forever is what I'm looking for. You have a little permanent effect unless we're rid of the things in ourselves. And hopefully in step three, we've learned that I can't fix me by fixing the outside. Hopefully the lessons that I learned in that 60 through 63 is that whatever is going to happen to make me be OK

is going to have to happen inside me. Hopefully I've burned out the idea that the new car, new job, New Girl, oh, fix me. Hopefully I've wore out the idea that if my mom would just stop treating me that way, then I'd be OK. Hopefully I learned those lessons in step three and that now I'm, I'm done trying to fix my insides with the outsides. Now I'm going to start trying to get the insides in a place where God can live and I can get to be OK. So we're going to get rid of the things inside of ourselves that have been blocking us. Blocking

from what? From carrying out this third step, blocking me from being in touch with God. So OK, so I get that it's important. I get that I'm going to do this. And, and what's going to happen is that I'm going to discover things about myself that I didn't know. The book calls it a fact finding and fact facing process. I'm going to learn things about me that I didn't know. So just doing this life story version that I had heard, if I could just tell you that, you know, I was born at a very young age.

So you know, I both a mom and a dad, one was a girl, one was a boy and kind of tell you the whole story that way that that's not going to work for me because I already know all that stuff about me. I'm going to have to learn something new about me. I'm going to have to discover the book says the truth about the stock and trade. It says that I have to get rid of damage or insailable goods. And hopefully through step three, I've taken a look at the way I look at the world and I can see that the way I'm looking at the world doesn't work.

I can't boom get a new perception. I can't click my fingers or or tap my heels to get I can't do that stuff. There is no magic. That will all thank you. I'm so glad you told me that selfishness is the problem. I won't be that anymore. I mean, I, you know, and then I'm going to sit at home and self obsess on whether or not I'm selfish, you know, call my friends. Do you think that was selfish? Was that selfish? Am I being selfish?

Is this madness right? So obviously I can't, I can't do that. But I understand there's got to be a new way

for me to look at the world. I have to find this new perception. And if I'm going to do this, I love this line. The book says that he cannot fool himself about values.

I, I, I have been fooling myself about values all of my life. I valued what I thought you think of me.

I valued that I thought that was important. I valued how I looked very, very important. I valued whether or not I believe the people I was hanging out with were the right stature. I valued all kinds of things that were that were value less that I valued. And you can always tell when I'm getting in trouble because I got this phrase that I say when I'm in the most trouble. And this is like not a little trouble. This is when I'm I'm ready to fall off the the

truck. I say this one, but you don't understand. It's the principle of the thing.

You might as well shoot me. You might as well shoot me. And I can't fool myself about values anymore. If I'm going to do this, I'm going to have to do this at a gut level. I'm going to need some help and I'm going to have to look at some things that quite frankly, I don't want to look at and, and how am I going to do that? And I'm going to follow these clear cut directions and they're so simple and so easy and so basic.

It says in the book that resentment is the number one offender. It destroys more Alcoholics than anything else. It destroys more Alcoholics than anything else. Because when I get upset and I get angry and I get that thing inside of me. You ever been in a meeting when you got you're upset and you're angry? You ever done that? And you can't hear nothing, you know? And then, and then I can't control when I'm angry. If I get angry at my boss,

I come home and treat my wife bad.

If I'm angry at my boss, I treat my coworkers or the guy at the grocery. I'm not the kind of guy that could say I really hate my boss. I really hate my boss. I oh, hi, how are you? Nice to see you. How have you been? I really hate my boss. I really hate my boss. It just doesn't work that way for me. When I get angry and I get resentful, I get shut off from everything and I can't get close to God and I can't get close to you and I can't get close to anything. So resentment is the number one offender. Destroys more Alcoholics than anything else from its stem. All forms of spiritual disease

for we have not only been mentally and physically I'll we have been spiritually sick. I have been sick of spirit. Someone talked this morning, I think it was Mildred that talked this morning about the capital ass and the spirit that we drank and that we drank because our spirit was sickened inside. I, I could, I couldn't really understand what you guys were talking about when you talked about a disease in Alcoholics Anonymous until you told me that my spirit was sickened

and I'd been depressed and sad for a long time. And when you're depressed and you're sad for a long time, it starts to wear on you physically and mentally and you start to shut yourself off from the wall. I saw a movie and this is not a, a approved stuff at all, but it was a great movie that lit me up where there was a part in this movie about a guy called Doctor Emoto. This guy was a Japanese scientist and he had taken some water from a pure Japanese stream that was blast stream and he had frozen

in a some kind of liquid nitrogen kind of special freezing way. But before he did that, he put little stickies on this file. On one stick. He was the Japanese love prayer. And another one was Japanese words for hate and anger. And then they prayed over the love prayer and they yelled at the anger one and they freeze this water, same water. And then they cut it with a a laser and put it under a super powerful magnifying glass. I just asked Charlie the right words, but they they put it under

microscope so they so you can you can look at this the structure of the cells of this water and the the water that had been prayed over and the love sonnet was on was beautiful concentric circles really just just caught beautiful, beautiful way to look at it.

The water that had been yelled at was broken and fractured and angry. And one of the guys says to this girl when they were looking at this, that if negative thoughts and prayers can do that to water, what must it do to us because we're 90% water. And I thought, you know, when you live the way that I lived and you had the fears and the anger and the, and the upset that I had and the resentments and you felt the way that I felt, is it any wonder that I became sicker and sicker and sicker as time went on?

So I've got these resentments and it asked me, what am I going to do with them? It says in dealing with resentments, we set them on paper. This is really cool because this is clear cut direction, real easy stuff. We set them on paper. We listed the people, institutions and principles with whom we were angry. So we just write this list. I'm angry at boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. When I first did my full step, I was afraid of writing that list because I didn't know who was supposed to go on there. I'm going to give you a little secret if you haven't done your full step,

they're all the same. We could write the 1st 10 names for you. You know, it generally goes

a mom, dad, siblings,

current spouse, current boss, past spouse, past boss, and then trickles down to everybody you've had any insignificant contact with your entire pathetic life. So I

so we can, we can we, we could write the list for you. We don't because it's fun to watch your squirm. You know,

we and the sponsor takes a lot of time. We got to get the joy when we can, you know, so, so we could write the list. We don't write the list. We let you write the list. And then, and then, and then we, we ask ourselves why we were angry. We ask ourselves why what they do? What was it that they did? And, you know, I start writing this and I probably got a couple of things that are that are some serious stuff that people did.

And then it starts to get catapulted. I start to get embarrassed about this stuff. Snubbed me at the dance

14 years ago.

Didn't pick me for soccer 36 years ago

on purpose,

but I write all this stuff down and then I ask myself what was affected. And we look at the the list of things in the book that it suggests that we look at. It says what was heard or threatened Later on uses the word interfered with and it asked us was it our self esteem? Myself esteem, I've come to believe is

is not what I think of me

because I don't think very much of me.

It's what I think you think of me is what I imagine myself esteem to be because that has real power in my life that changes from person to person in situation to situation has real power in my life. Security, emotional security, financial security, whether or not I feel safe. Ambitions are getting my own way, personal relationships, sexual relationships that have been interfered with. So what did this person do that made me crazy about him, that made me angry about him? When we write this whole list

of all these people and we go through this stuff and and oftentimes we need help of a sponsor to do this. Oftentimes we need help of a sponsor dues. We write the list the bottom of of 65, it says we went back through our lives. Nothing counted but thoroughness and honesty. I've had guys say to me, I can't do my false death. I can't spell. Well, let's check the book.

No, spelling's not on the list. Only thoroughness and honesty, you know?

You know, by penmanship's bad. Oh, well, good. It's not a criteria, you know. I had one guy come to me when I was newly sober. The first few guys I sponsored, he brought me an Excel spreadsheet filled out on the computer every faster. I thought it was hysterical. The last inventory I did was on an Excel spreadsheet, because since then I learned how to use Excel and it's cool.

Back then it was stupid and pointless and why would anybody waste the time, but now I know how to use a software. I dig it. You know

nothing counts but thoroughness and honesty. The we considered it carefully. When we were done with the list, the first thing that was apparent was that the world and its people were often quite wrong. No new information there.

I knew the world. Its people were often quite wrong. To conclude that others were wrong was as far as most of us ever got. You asked me what's wrong with my life and it will start out with a person's name or the name of a company or a job that I have. What's wrong with me? I'll tell you what's wrong with me. My dad's what's wrong with me? My boss says what's wrong with me, my wife's what's wrong with me? You're what's wrong with me. It is never

well let me tell you what I've been doing

right. The first thing that's apparent is that conclude that others wrong. As far as ever it's got, the usual outcome was that people continued to wrong us and we stayed sore.

That the world continues in my perception to treat me wrong. And the more wrong that I feel they've treated me, the worse it gets. And the worse it gets, the less I trust anybody and the less I trust anybody, and the bigger the walls are built up and the further judgment that I have. And I tell you I get crazy and I can't let anybody get close to me.

And I wonder when I get to a A why I feel lonely,

right? I mean, I didn't know it till I got here when you explain what loneliness was. And I'm dying of loneliness, The book later on says, and the loneliness settle down, ever becoming blacker. Is it ever wonder that I'm lonely when I won't let any of you get near me because I hate every last one of you? It is hard to not be lonely when you hate the world, all right. But I hate the world. And I got this wall built up of judgment and fear and anger and upset and of the way you're treating me. And the book said, it is plain that any

life which includes deep resentful resentment leads only to futility and unhappiness. To the precise extent that we permit these. Do we squander the hours? It might have been worthwhile, you know, to as simple of a deal as

Sheldon. Would you like to come to dinner at our house?

No. And then I sit at home during the time we would have been eating dinner, thinking, want to ask? You are right. Because I don't like you. Because I'm afraid of you. To all the way up to the hours I spend in bed at night, running this stuff through my head at my office when I should be working, daydreaming, when I try to pray.

Dear God,

Sheldon here.

I got to go to work today with those people.

You know the ones. Well, there's that guy, the way he treats me, and I hate him, and then there's her. And do you remember last week? And I can't even pray for crying out loud without all this stuff in my head,

but with the alcoholic whose hope is the maintenance and growth of a spiritual experience, as business of resentment is infinitely grave. Infinite sounds serious. I might die infinitely grave. We found that it is fatal. Another death word. We found it is fatal. For in harboring such feelings we shut ourselves up from the sunlight of the Spirit. God can't get through sober of the day by the grace of God, so, but it takes. I found a power greater myself. But when

bring such feelings, I'm shut off from the thing that is enabling me to feel OK and stay sober. Harbor shows are the insanity of alcohol returns. We drink again and with us to drink is to die

and I still won't get it, but I got to do it because if I don't, I'm going to go drink again from my experience. I'm going to go drink again from my experience. What's going to start as a low level depression is a slight uncomfortability, is a little restless, irritable and discontented is going to grow to something inside me where eventually people inside Alcoholics Anonymous are as big a losers as the people outside Alcoholics Anonymous. That setting up chairs and making coffee is well below my

Quite frankly, I got here all by myself and I don't need you people anyway, and you're all a bunch of lunatics and I'm gonna go drink

because that's what I got to do. That's what I got to do.

If we were to live, we had to be free of anger. The Grouch and the Brainstorm were not for us. They were the dubious luxury of normal men,

but for the alcoholic, these things will poison. We turn back to the list for Held the key to the future. We were prepared to look at it from an entirely different angle, prepared to look at it from an entirely different angle. All would be an entirely different angle from anything that I've ever done. It would be to look at it from the point of view of what it was like for you,

because I've only ever looked at anything from what it was like for me, right? I mean, I'm in the middle of my life. There's nothing I can do about that. Everywhere I look, I'm in the center. All right, Nothing I can do about that. But I'm an extreme example of self centeredness gone wild. I'm way I'm just I never consider inconsiderate. I don't think about what your feelings might be. I'm concerned with what kind of dad my dad was. I never even stopped to imagine what kind of son I was never entered my head. I

had a conversation with my friends about what kind of employee I am. They all know what kind of boss I got. You know, I have never looked, but hopefully it's kind of a throwaway line in the middle because hopefully I learned these lessons in Step 3. It's almost like we're being asked to check. Did you really get it in 60 through 63?

Are you willing? Are you prepared? Because it's not going to be easy. Are you prepared

to look at it from an entirely different angle?

So I got this list

and it's got these names on it and my 4th step was number different than anybody else's. My dad was the first name on the list. My dad left when I was two years old.

I were a small Jewish community in a in a in an area of the north of England which is where I was born, where in that time in

19701971, it was very uncommon for Jewish families to get divorced. It just was. It was one of those those pockets where divorce hadn't become fashionable yet

and you didn't get divorced and my folks did and we were odd. It was also a community where the people in the Jewish community had done pretty well, most of them financially. They were hard working bunch of guys. And when my dad left, he left us as a welfare family. My mom went on welfare and I moved from a Jewish part of town to a non Jewish part of town. And I got to tell you, I hated my dad. My dad ruined my life, he really did. I had to deal with a lot of anti-Semitism, a lot of prejudice. I was in the wrong community. I was the wrong guy

on the wrong block. I'm living on in a welfare household and and my dad did this to me and I hated my dad. My dad says to me, Sheldon, I never left you. I only left your mother. And I said liar because there were a couple of other divorced families and the dad stayed in town and he was there for the ball games and the events and the stuff. My dad left and went to Southern California from England. He moved 6000 miles away. He left me

and I hated my dad. You want to know why I'm an alcoholic? I'll tell you why. It's because that SOB left. And if you'd had my dad leave and you to live with what? He left my mom to be you to drink too. And I hated my dad. And I show up at my sponsor's house with my dad on the list. Now, you know, he didn't stay around and beat me and he didn't treat me in ways that some folks have been treated by their parents. And, and I understand that that what happened to me

wasn't that big of a deal, but you have to remember the key part here.

It happened to me

and and that made it really bad.

If it would have happened to you, I'd have told you to get over it for God sakes, you know,

But it happened to me and that made it a big deal. So, so he's gone and and I hate him and I get to my sponsors house and we could start on my first step. And he says, well, you know, your dad did the best for you. He could with the tools he had to work with.

And I said, bullshit,

get new tools.

I was two years old. I'm not playing. And he whips out some other spiritual mantras that they teach in sponsor school. And I get it. I got a great sponsor now, but Bob is my sponsor. I got a great sponsor, but he's trying all this stuff on me about my dad. And I ain't hearing it because I can't hear it because I hate my dad. And you don't understand. I've heard your story. Your dad loved you till he nearly killed you. My dad left. I ain't playing.

I ain't playing. So he does the only thing he can. He moves on to my mom. Tell me about your mom, Sheldon. Well, my dad laughed. My mom got a little odd. She got very upset and angry and she'd yell and scream a lot. It's very difficult to deliver. She get manic depressive a lot. She was a screamer and a yeller and she just, it was very difficult. I looked like my dad, sound like my dad, act like my dad. She'd say things to me like, oh, you're just like your father. And then 5 minutes later, I'd catch her crying about how my father ruined her life.

I think, you miserable woman, I'm ruining your life too, aren't I? And it just was very difficult. Very difficult. My mom, sins, by the way,

has become an active member of Al Anon. She got on a with help from a doctor, got on a cost of medication that helped her. He can tell she's not an alcoholic because after 20 weeks, she put down the bottle. I'm not going to go there either, Katie. I'm going to leave that alone, too. But she didn't take him forever because only Alcoholics do that, I think, right? Yeah. But anyway, she gets some pills. She got some help. She threw Allen on I love Alan on. I want to help my mom. My mom and I are very close today,

but at the time, living with her was very difficult.

And we start talking about what it says here in the book and it says this was our cost. We realize that the people who wronged us were perhaps spiritually sick. My mom was definitely spiritually sick. It was very easy to see that what my mom suffered from made her suffer. I would catch her crying. And I have clear memories of multiple times of I'm just so mean to you kids and I don't know why and I wish I could stop. But she was sincere, you know,

and she still does it today, for crying out loud. You don't have to stop or go. I'll get a I'll get a ticket, right?

Driving too fast and she go if I was better to you kids, I go. I know mom, it's your fault. I got the ticket. I know. Well, here, pay it. You know, if you still, you still want to keep that crap, you're welcome to it. You know, it's $171 to justice court. You know, if you go but, but, but I catch her crying about how mean she was to his kids. And it was clear that she suffered.

She suffered spiritually in her own way and that we didn't like her symptoms. And I didn't like her symptoms all the way. They disturb me. It made my life very difficult. I didn't like it at all. They like ourselves. We're sick too.

Heard a speaker tape four or five years ago and I don't know the guy's name, but it really had a lot of power when he say it was a book study, he said.

They, like ourselves, were sick too. Not like the well looking at the sick,

but like the sick looking at the sick, See if you got a bad disease, a heart disease or cancer or something, you go, I got cancer and I don't have cancer. I'm going to say, oh, I'm so sorry, you poor thing. I must be terrible. And I'm going to have a sense of better than I don't want it. It's not something I look for, but just inside me, something's going to go, Oh my God, I don't have cancer. But if I got cancer and you say you got cancer, we got something to talk about.

Oh, man, what are we going to do? We got a connection

like the sick looking at the sick

that she, like me, was sick. I take something I love cliches in AA1 of my favorite ones is we're not bad people trying to get good. We're sick people trying to get well because it kind of let's us off the hook a little bit, all right? And I like being off the hook, you know, I do. I dig it, you know, and I believe I do. But I believe this with all my heart that some of the stuff, a lot of the stuff I did while drinking, right, I'm not guilty for I was drunk. I was driven by a disease. I'm not a bad guy. I'm a sick guy. I was driven by a disease and I'm not guilty for that stuff. Now I'm responsible

and we're going to talk about the responsibility step later. So don't anybody misunderstand what I'm saying. I got to make amends for all of it. Drunk or sober, I'm responsible, but I'm not guilty for that. But if I want to have that little bit of forgiveness that the universe gives sick people for behaving sick, I got to be willing to give it.

I got to be willing to give it. I got to be willing to say, you know what? My mom was like me sick too. And I got to be willing to let my mom off the hook. Forgive us our trespasses as at the same time as in the same way as to the same degree, forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. I got to be willing to let her off the hook. I got to be willing to say to myself, man, if if I was her And he laughed and I'm living in this

and now all of a sudden from middle class suburbia, I'm a welfare mom and he's out doing what he wants to do and he don't even come around once or twice a week to help with the kids. I mean, it might make me crazy and I might be a little crazy. And this little mini him walks through the room, you know, mini me

shows up. You know, I mean, it would probably make you a little nuts. My son is the double of me, right? And I tell my wife all the time, you're lucky you like me,

because if you didn't like me, you'd hate him,

you know? I mean, Can you imagine?

Now, I don't forgive my mom right away. I don't love my mom right away. There's a journey in Alcohol Anonymous that runs right through the immense process that enables my mom and I to have the relationship we have today. But I begin to understand my mom. It is better to understand than to be understood. I begin to see a little understanding, a little guy. You know, if I was in mom's shoes, I might have behaved that way.