The 60th Gopher State Roundup in Bloomington, MN

Thank you.

My name is Gordie Burse. I'm a grateful member of Al Anon.

Geez, look at you guys. I want to thank the committee, Connie and and everybody for inviting us up and flying. Connie and I am. What a tremendous event and you treated us like family and we appreciate that. I want to thank Teresa, Scott, Kiri and Andrew. Those guys were awesome. The previous speakers,

they did great. I'm a little pissed off and have a resentment about that.

I also want to thank the interpreters over there. You guys do great service and we appreciate it.

I've been told that I have a tendency to speak really fast, so that there's my apology and your warning. OK, OK,

you know, I saw I am responsible in Oh no, I'm not I didn't 'cause it. I can't control it and I can't cure it either. I

there you go. My work here is done.

My my story starts with my family. But before I get to that, the first time I was asked to speak, I called my sponsor up and said, yeah, yeah, they asked me to speak. What do I do? And he says, well, don't swear, don't drool, don't lean on the podium. Give him what you got. And that's my plan. I do have a plan. That's one of the reasons I'm in Al Anon.

We're going to talk about that too. But my story starts with my dad because there's a man growing up, my dad was my was my role model. And my dad grew up in the Depression and he came from a family that had very, very little. He was the first generation American. My grandfather was a gardener on the States in Long Island. And so my dad didn't have a lot. So in his mind, to be a better dad, he needed to make money and to provide a better living. And he did a really good job on that. But what that meant for him was

anytime you had an opportunity to take a job to make more money, we moved. And moving is the beginning of my, of my story. I went to four elementary schools, one junior high and three high schools. And you know, that's a, it's a lot of moving. And, and what I've found out over time is I didn't like that. I was never comfortable with it

and we always seem to move in the middle of the school year. Should start a watch here.

And when we moved in 3rd grade, you know, that was back when dinosaurs roamed the earth and pencils were like this big and you have, you know, writing in them.

When you walk into a classroom, if you haven't been there before, the eyes are all on you. So you walk in in the middle of the year and everybody's looking at you. And by the time it's the middle of the year, the pecking order has been sorted out. And, you know, we used to settle that out on the playground. So in the 3rd grade when we moved, went out on the playground and got my butt kicked by the bullies. And I went home kind of beat up. And my dad said, what happened to you? And I told him what happened. And he got down on his hands and knees and balled my hands up in the fists with your thumb on the outside so you don't break it. And he says, this is your left, this

you're right, this is how you use them. The fight's not over to one of you doesn't get up. And he expected me to go out and handle my business from that point on. And I did because I was way more afraid of my dad than I was of anybody in the school.

And so the next time we move, that's what I did. I went out and went out to the playground and found those kids. I went looking for him and we settled it right there. And what that taught me was if you have a good offense, you don't need a, you don't need a defense. And if your offense is good enough, you don't have to win the fight. If you give yourself a good enough accounting, those guys are going to leave you alone. Bullies aren't looking for guys are going to put up a fight. They're looking for people that they can pick on. And that became a hallmark. And we're going to talk about that too. But what I was really learning to do is was to teach people to

away from me. And you know, I'm really comfortable that way. It's really easy for me not have to connect with people. It's really easy for me to keep you at a distance. So as we were growing up and we were moving a lot, I grew up with the isms of the disease. My dad drank every day of his life. I never saw him drunk, but I came. I come from a non talking family. We didn't talk about with anybody what was going on in the house. You know, if my family asked you how they felt, how you felt, they wanted to know if you had a fever. It had nothing to do with an emotional

state, and that's how I grew up. I was the youngest of four. Don't call me the baby. I have a resentment about that.

And we became a really tight family. And, and so as we, as I progressed in school and got into high school and I was sick of moving by then,

I was, by this time I've lived all over the country. We're living in Southern California at the time and I'm in high school and I'm doing really well in some classes, I'm in Advanced Placement classes and there's classes that I was flunking. And the truth of that was if I like the class, I, I got involved and did the work. And if I didn't, I just blew them off. And I, my, my parents got called into the counselors and said, look, this kids really capable and,

you know, we don't know what's going on. And what that was, was I think it was passive aggressive behavior.

You know, I always knew my father loved me. I knew my, and I knew he was taking care of me. And that in my family, we had a lot of conditional love. We never went without. We always had the food, clothes, cars and stuff. But if you, if you're a performer, then you got the rewards. And my, my brothers and sisters were good in school and they got all the accolades and stuff. And I was just tired of moving and didn't want to be involved.

And So what I was doing is, is trying to find a way to get through life. Now, about the time I've turned 16

and our family, if you had a job and whatever money you made was yours, you could do whatever you want with it. That's control. And we're going to talk a lot about controls. When I was 16, I got my first job and I went to work and I'm in high school and making money and spending stuff on my car and doing those things. I got out of high school. Somehow they let me out. I don't know how, but they let me out of high school. I went to junior college 'cause my grades weren't good enough to get into a four year school. And I started my own company and I started a company where I was cleaning apartments for real estate.

And we go in and clean paint and do the whole, the whole apartment one time. And I have five guys working for me. I'm paying them under the table. And we're making three times what minimum wage was at cash, no taxes. The IRS is here. This is an anonymous program.

So now I'm making money and and I've got this stuff going on and got my grades up and I went up to San Jose State to to a four year school and

started studying psychology with a minor in sociology and

working two jobs. I'm working at a theme park up there and I'm a dispatcher for the state police at night and met a girl in college. Big surprise. And we started getting pretty serious and one night I got a call from her while I'm dispatching she and she said my dad had me about against the fence with a gun threatening to kill me. And I said what's that about? She says well he's an alcoholic and this is what he does. So I rolled 2 units over there and they arrested this guy and took him out and

I got over there and in my family, we take care of our own. My responsibility is to take care of whoever is in my family. And so I had done my job and I, I went over that night to console her and I never thought to ask her what alcoholism was. I didn't think about what an alcoholic was. All I knew is I had to keep this guy away from I keep this guy away from my girlfriend.

So about a year and a half later, I graduate and I've got this degree in psychology. And so I start to go to work as a therapist and had a problem with that because these people coming in to see me were screwed up.

And the truth was, I was pretty ill equipped to deal with it at the time.

So I did what most budding and humanitarians did. I joined the Marine Corps.

Why give him therapy? We can drop bombs on them. They don't talk back. I,

the truth of that was my dad was a, was a pilot in World War 2 and he had his medals up on the wall and his bloodshed. And I knew that this had had a profound effect on him. And he was, we, he, we never talked about it, but I knew that in, in my mind that was part of being a man. So I joined the Marine Corps with the Marine Corps and what they call an aviation contract. And that means that you go in, you get your your commissioners as a Lieutenant, you go to the basic school and they send you to flight school.

And if you pass all the tests, they give you the chance to go out and fly airplanes. So

I did really well in the basic school, got down to flight school and they make you take 3 tests. There's algebra, physics and aerodynamics. And I passed aerodynamics and I passed physics and I flunked algebra. Well, the truth of that was in high school I didn't care about algebra and I, I didn't pay attention. I flunked it. So I had to go see the common down of the school and they said, Lieutenant, you can't fly if you can't pass algebra. And they sent me to what they call stupid study,

and in three days I learned algebra. And because it was really important for me to fly, I needed to do that.

You know, the Marine Corps gave me 33 tools and there were three really 3 gifts. And the first gift is, is I don't have what I need. I improvise. And if I'm in a situation I've never been in before, I adapt. And regardless of the obstacle placed in front of you, you overcome.

Now, if you listen to what I'm talking about, you're familiar with alcoholism. This is going to get interesting. So.

So I pass a test and they put me in airplanes and the Marine Corps of meritocracy. That means they rank you by performance

from the lowest of the highest performance. And, and in flight school, if you're at the top of the list, you can choose the airplane or where you want to fly. And that's control. And so I knew I wanted to fly jets. It was important to me. So I studied really hard and by this time I had married my college girlfriend. Now we're down in Pensacola, FL and I just pour myself into my work. I studied, I graduated from primary flight, top of my class. What do you want to fly? I want to fly jets. They sent me to to

intermediate jet, graduated the top of my class, went into an advanced jet training,

graduated the top of my class there because I needed to have the control. And they asked me what airplane I wanted to fly.

And I chose this airplane consciously, but I didn't understand what it was about until I'd been in Al Anon for a while. I chose an airplane called an A4. It had one seat and one engine and nobody could make that airplane do anything but me. I didn't have a guy sitting in the back. I didn't have a guy sitting next to me. I was in charge of that airplane. So I take my bride. My my daughter was born, it was 1980. My daughter's name is Brianna. She was born in Meridian, Ms. You're going to hear about her later.

So I take my bride and my little girl and I'm charged up, man. I'm building a dream

and we go out to the West Coast going into the replacement group,

came out of the replacement group. I'm at a Marine Corps Air Station, El Toro and I'm one of those hard chargers. I'm a, I'm a hard bitten Marine. I'm going straight ahead and I got in and I moved up really fast. I was went from a section lead to a division lead. I got to plan and lead strikes. I got to do some amazing things and I came home one day and my first wife told me your services are no longer required.

And you know, I was stunned. I was like, I'm a captain of Marines. I'm leading these guys. I'm throwing these amazing airplanes around in the sky. I'm doing things that people don't even dream about. And I got fired. What? And you know, I didn't bother to figure out what that was really about. But the main event out of that divorce was as I had my little girl was important to me. I wanted to be a better dad, just like my dad wanted to be a better dad. And I was really filled with rage at that because

the legal system,

with good reason, would never give custody to a single Marine Corps combat pilot. They just won't do it. So I had to sign my daughter over to my to my former. And I was filled with rage about that. And I don't know how familiar you are with rage, but real rage is cold. It's calculating, and it's massively destructive. I'm not worried about the guy standing up in front screaming and yelling. I'm worried about the guy sitting in the back that's really quiet because he's doing what I was doing. I was planning

and I made a commitment to myself. I said, you know, there's going to come a time

that I'm going to get a chance to get my daughter back, and I'm going to wage a campaign to do that.

Now, in the Marine Corps, waging a campaign is called a full frontal assault. It's the only thing they do, and they do it better than anybody I know. The Marine Corps places an amphibious battalion off your coast. We're not going to sneak up on you. We're coming right across the beach and punch you in the mouth, and we're going to figure it out right there. Those were my people, and that's how I knew how to go through life.

So I'd lost this while lost my first wife, and I'm a single pilot. So what do you do? I like girls. I think I'll go find another one. So I started hanging out in hockey talks because I like to dance with girls and I like to hold them. They're soft in all the right places. And lo and behold, I met another girl. Can you imagine that?

There's this little short girl out there, and she's got long hair, She's a good dancer, got a Southern accent. We start dancing. And, you know, when you're a single pilot, there's a question you wait for. And that question is, what do you do for a living? So I'm dancing with her, and you know I'm waiting because I know it's coming. And we take a break. We go over at a drink. He says, well, well, what do you do for a living? I puffed myself up. I said, I'm a Marine Corps fiber pilot. She says at least you got a job.

Yeah, I never backed down from a challenge, right.

That little lady is with me today, her and her name is Connie. She's sitting right over here and I'm going to introduce her to you later.

So we're going along and you know you have to give me a warning because I exclude my watch up

too many movement parts. It's got three buttons.

So I fully disclosed my position to her. I said, you know, I'm a, I'm a single Marine Corps pilot. I've got this daughter from another marriage and given the opportunity, I'm going to go get her. And, and they said, and she said, well, you know, I'm OK with that. And I talked about the contracts of life because that's what I understood it to be. I was talking about what what was going on for me. And so we decided to get married. We had the Marine Corps wedding, the sword arches and all the stuff that goes with it. And she came along with me, and

probably about a year later, I separated from the Marine Corps. And

I was gonna go out and build the American dream because that's what I'm supposed to do.

So what I did is I went and interviewed with a bunch of companies, and this one company said, you know, gory, we think you can do what we do. That's the good news is. But the bad news is we're not going to pay a salary. You can make as much money as you can. And they show me some guys who are making some pretty good money. And the Marine Corps taught me is if you can do it, I can do it. All right. I mean, I may not have the skills, but I'm going to improvise. I'm going to adapt and overcome. So we moved up into Washington State.

I start working on a new business

and I start pouring myself into that. And my daughter came up from California for what was supposed to be a three-week visit that turned into a year. And you know, I knew I had a tactical advantage. My first wife was down in another state. My daughter was in my physical custody. So I made the right decision for me. I went into Seattle. I interviewed a bunch of lawyers and I, I said, here's my situation,

you know, and one guy said, you know, Gordie, I think I can get your daughter back for you

and get you custody. And I told this guy, I don't care what it takes. I don't care what it costs. You get my daughter,

you know, I entered into a custody battle of epic proportion.

And I will tell you now, looking back on it with who I am today, I'm not proud of the way that I waged that campaign, but I'm profoundly grateful for the result.

By this time, Connie and I bought our first house, we had my daughter, we had a golden retriever, bought a brand new Toyota Camry. Man, I'm building a dream, right?

And we're in this custody battle. And about this time, things started getting kind of tense and hectic in our life, you know? And I'm thinking that this is the process of blending a family. But what it really was was the beginning of alcoholism starting to show up in my life.

And we went through this custody battle. I got custody, we got custody of my daughter. And Kanye said, you know, we, we got Bree and like to have a baby of my own. I said, well, I'm a Marine on how that works. And in 1986, our son was born. His name is Travis and you're going to hear about him too. So now I've got this going on. I've got, I've got a son, I've got a daughter, the dog, the car, the house and, and you know, on the outside

everything looked right.

And, and, but we were starting to fight a lot.

There was a lot of tension in the house. And I, you know, again, I went back, I'm looking for the logical reason for this. And to me it was we're blending the family and we're just not, we're not reaching agreement on how things need to be done because there's my way in the highway. And Connie and I started to get into a lot of fights. And, and I got to tell you, if you've been hearing me, I wasn't the kind of guy you want to pick a fight with.

When I was

an air combat tactics instructor, we went to an event called Red Flag at Nellis Air Force Base.

And it's they use the Marines as aggressors. And it's the most realistic training you can have airborne without actually shooting live rounds at each other. And it's very involved. And you sit in a room like this and they have a big briefing and they get up and put the maps on the wall and they hold up what's called Rules of Engagement. ROA. It's a book about this thick and it tells you where you can go, when you can go there, who you have to talk to and how you're going to fight.

So we went back to our squadron ready room to to debrief. And my commanding officer stood up, held that book up and threw it on the floor. And he said, we're going to win this fight. And I was home. These were people who saw the world. The way I see it, the fight is not over till somebody doesn't get up and it's going to be you. It's not going to be us. And that's the way I got into fights with Connie. I would, I would, you know, I would bag up all the stuff that I've been holding inside me and the resentments and we would unload on each other. And it was ugly.

About this time, Connie was starting to have trouble at work. And by now I've got a pretty good business going and I'm a pretty good businessman. I'd applied myself and I said, hey, you know, I can help you with that. She says, no, I don't think that's going to happen. And you know, again, it was, it was one of those situations where I thought I knew what the solution was and I didn't,

you know? And then the weird things start to happen. You know, Connie, come home and the car get parked on the lawn,

car get parked on the neighbor's lawn. You know, um,

now the funny part of that was is I didn't think they were paying attention, right? Like that nobody can see what's going on and the inside of the house is really ugly. But I was really involved with my kids. I wanted to be the better dad. I was a T-ball coach, I was a softball coach, I was a football coach. I was a cub master of a pack. I was running a business and I was a road warrior. I was on the on the road a lot. And you know that things were just bad in our house. On the inside. On the outside, everything looked right.

So we're, we're moving along and, and

Connie's drinking is advancing and, and there's no hiding it. By this time, my brother had moved up from Texas. He's a doctor. You can hear about him. My mom and dad moved up. And by now it's we're into the 1995 and things are just ugly. I mean, it really is. I'm, I am, I am improvising, adapting, and I am not overcoming anything. And I'm growing more frustrated.

I could sleep from midnight till four 'cause that's the only time I can get my mind to shut off. I was either dealing with work or, or problems

and things I couldn't control. And I'll tell you what control is for me. Control for me is if you guys are doing what I think you ought to be doing, I'm going to be OK. Control is all about people being who I need them to be. So I'm not going to be harmed or the world's not going to be what I need it to be to be OK. And my world is not OK. And in 19 and November of 1996, from a non talking family, my mom called and said, Gordie, they got this thing called Alan on watching TV. It's for friends and families of Alcoholics.

Maybe you should go. And in my really calm and kind demeanor, I said, Mom, I don't need to go nowhere. She needs to stop drinking. If she'll stop drinking, my life will be perfect.

Those are the Al Anon's one laughing right there.

So let me give you the update on it. My wife has over 15 years of sobriety. My life ain't perfect. Be careful what you take from me.

That's you, baby.

The defining event for alcoholism took place for me in February of 1997.

And I told you, my brother is a physician and I was out in the field with a customer. I had one of those Motorola flip phones. You remember those things like beam me up, Scotty, you know one of those, you call somebody on it and battery heat your hand up. It was some quality instrument right there. And so I got a phone call from my brother in the middle of the day and with a customer, he says, Gordie, you better get down to the ER. We've got Connie down here. She's been drinking and we don't know if she's going to live

now. You know, I've been to a number of these events and I've been to a lot of conferences and I've been to open a a meetings and I've heard him talk about blackouts. I had an emotional blackout.

I don't it was I was 70 miles from that hospital and I don't remember driving there. I don't have a recall. The next memory I have is walking into the ER and

they had my wife on a Gurney and they've got two large bore 4's in her and they're trying to get me to sign papers because they're probably going to have to intubate her. Because if you drink enough alcohol you stop breathing and you die.

And to that point, I had never taken alcohol seriously.

And I will tell you without reservation, I have never seen a body that's still at lit.

And my world stopped.

I remember standing there, I remember people walking around me trying to get me to sign papers, and all I could do was look at my wife and wonder if she's going to live.

And there were things going on in that hospital that weren't part of my life with my wife for a long time. They were treating her with care and tenderness. And that hadn't been a part of my life for a long time. Because you know what? I thought I knew about drinking and I didn't understand what alcoholism was.

It was pretty clear to me if you don't drink, you don't get drunk. And I consider her inability to stop a character defect. It was weakness and I didn't know what that was.

So they got kind of stabilized and I had to call my mom and dad and say you got to pick the kids up. Connie's down here. I don't know if she's going to live.

And they got her stabilized and they got her up into a room and I had to go home that night and tell my mom and dad and my kids that their daughter-in-law, my kids mom had almost drunk herself to death that night.

And alcoholism became vividly real for me.

But you know, I had a plan. I did.

Connie had been talking about going to treatment, and here's my plan. I went up into that hospital room the next day and I sat down next to her and I said, here's the deal,

You can go to treatment. I'm going to put you on an airplane anywhere you want to go, and I'm going to put a bunch of money in your hand. I don't want to see you again.

And you know, that was my last attempt that I can remember to, to actively control the disease. And she said, I'll go to treatment.

So we got our stable and we drove her up to treatment that afternoon. And that night I was driving home and, you know, for the first time in my life, not my life, but and a very long time, it was quiet.

And I remember how vividly quiet it was. And, and when I do newcomers meetings and I talk about the disease of alcoholism, you know, I talk about it. Some people call it a tornado, I call it a hurricane. And you know, you don't just step into this, this disease built. My experience is it builds over time. It starts slowly and it picks up momentum and it just continues to grow and grow and grow. But if you're trained like I am, you improvise.

You adapt. I had, I had adapted to living in a hurricane

and I had done everything I could think of to control it. And I can tell you right now, unequivocally, I

I have never been able to control alcoholism. And I didn't realize that yet, but that was the truth of it.

So I get home,

kids are in bed, and this is my golden retriever part. We had the golden retriever I was talking about and my office is in my house, Our golden retrievers, our dogs are like people to us. And my dog used to go to the office with me all the time and, and they're just tremendous gifts to us. But, and my dogs talk to me and I went into the kitchen that night and I was going to make some soup because I hadn't eaten in a couple days. And if you're in Al Anon, you know what that's about, right? I'm going to make sure everything else is taken care of before I do anything for myself.

So I start making soup and my golden retriever looks at me and she raises her eyebrows and says you're nuts.

And you know, here's the funny part. That was a moment of clarity for me,

and I'll tell you what I mean by that, because I knew what that dog was talking about. If you haven't noticed, I'm a type A analytical linear thinker, right?

Everything in my life becomes a box and I take 1 box out and I deal with it and I put it back in my head and my relationship with my wife had become so painful that I would not take that box out. I did not know what to do with it. It was I didn't know what to do with the emotions about it. I couldn't get it. It just was not working for me. And I hadn't touched that box. But all of these boxes fell out of my head and, and they're laying around my feet and I had realized that everything that I was showing the world was built on sand. It was all an image because the outside of my

look right and the inside of my life was dying.

So I am the classic Al Anon. I go to the family treatment center and go to the family program and walk in. Yeah, I'm Gordy. I'm here to help. And they said what? I said what can I do? They said go to an Allen on me and I said OK, whatever, what can I do to help? And they said you need to go to Al Anon

and they handed me a schedule and on Tuesday, March 11th, 1997, I went to my first Al Anon meeting.

Thank you.

So I I pull up to this meeting and it's in front. It's in a church. That's a problem for me. And I opened the door and I start walking down the hall and people are laughing.

Now I'm dealing with some pretty serious stuff. You people need to focus

and I walk into that meeting and they're hugging you. Try to hug me, I'll knock you out. Especially the guys.

I'll walk in and sit down and yeah, I'm Gordy. I'm from the treatment center here. Well, you know, lives in treatment and they go around the room. Oh, we're have a first step. And then, you know, everybody shares and they, they get around to me and I give them the plan,

right? Hey, she's in treatment. She's going to get out, she's going to be sober. We're going to go on. Life is going to be great. And there's this guy in there and he's sitting there and he comes around to his turn and says, you know, Gordy, just cause your wife goes to treatment doesn't mean she's going to get sober.

I'm looking at him and thinking you and I are going to have a problem.

You do not know the plan.

Well, here's the truth about guys in me. At that point, when I walked into a room, I would sort every guy out in the room from who I thought would guy would have the most trouble with to the one I'd have the least trouble with and determine how I was going to deal with it without ever having talked to you.

So I go back to the treatment center and and you know, I know how to give orders and I had to take orders on how to give direction take. I've been to an Al Anon meeting. This counselor looks me in the eye and she says get a sponsor. I said, what's that? And she says, well, shirts with shirts, skirts with skirts. This is somebody you're going to work with between between the meetings of the program. Don't come back without one. OK, so the next Tuesday I go back to this meeting,

walk in, sit down. There's one guy and it's him.

You know, I'm like, oh, God.

So after the meeting, right, I gotta take an order. I walk up to this guy and say, hey, they tell me I need a sponsor. Will you sponsor me? And he said, sure, I'll hand. He said, sure, I'll sponsor you. And my name is Jerry. And he hands me his card. And this guy is an Alaska Airlines pilot.

Oh, spiritual stuff.

Let me introduce you to Gordy. That was there that night. OK, I look at this guys card and I look at him and I'm thinking there's only two kinds of airplanes, fighters and targets. This is going to be easy.

I got you, bud.

So he says. This is what I want you to do. I want you to call me every day. I want you to go to three Allen on meetings minimum a week. I want you to read the literature and I want you to pray. Three out of four is not bad, right? I'm not praying. You hit 750 in baseball. You're in the Hall of Fame, man. They'll make a statue out of bronze. That'll be enough for this chicken outfit. I can do that.

So I start working with this guy,

kind of gets out of treatment, and three days later she relapses. I don't know if you've ever fallen off a pink cloud, but it's a long way to the ground. That was not in the plan.

So I'm starting to meet with my sponsor and we do what we call need and ease

and we get together once a week and I'm sitting with him and we're going to need a knee. And he starts giving me some of that. Sponsor wisdom says, you know, Gordy, you need to give your wife the dignity to be who she's going to be. Here's my problem.

I didn't like who she was.

I did not know how to separate. I didn't understand attachment. I did not know how to separate the disease of alcoholism from the woman that I married. It was one and the same and I did not like it. But I, you know what? I was willing to take direction and keep doing the work. Next time I'm sitting with him, we're needing me. And I'm whining to him and and he says, you know, Gordy, Connie's got a higher power and you're not it.

I was pretty sure my hat said, God, I was in charge of everything that was going on. I mean, and seriously, it was like, you know, if when I got to Al Anon, if you were on my street and you didn't think what we were doing on my street at that time went from horizon to horizon, we were going to have a conversation. And if you haven't noticed, I can be pretty direct, right? And this is the improved version. So take what you like and

you know, and, and I had to, I had to do Start learning what detachment was right. And it was, it was really hard work. So in our, in our area, when we're in meetings, our meetings are fairly large and in the larger meetings, they break up, they'll be a step and they'll be a topic. And I used to go to the topic meetings and, and go in there and emotionally puke on your people till I could start processing what was going on. And you know,

I was aware enough after a couple months looking at this,

all of us crazy guys were in the topic meeting and their calm guys were in a step meeting. It's like, OK, I got this one. So I started going to the step meetings and, and I asked my sponsor. I said, you know, when we're going to start doing the step work. And he says, now you're ready. Now my first sponsor came out of Boise, ID is where he started now. And on and he went. He was he was in it when it was just Al and it was a long time ago and there were there were like three guys in Al Anon and all of those guys

sponsored by dual members who use the big book. So my first sponsor started sponsoring out of the big book. I sponsor out of past recovery today. But so we started in the big book and had me do all the reading. And then your sponsor will tell you this. I want you to write,

so I had to write at the top of the page. You know the first step. Powerless over alcohol and my wife is unmanageable, right?

Because that was my problem.

If she was manageable, I wouldn't be here. And he says, no, you're not going to do that. And so we start, we start going through the steps and we're talking about what's going on. And, and we started do my second step with him. And he introduced a concept of a power greater than myself. And I can tell you, if you haven't noticed, I had disassociated myself from religion a long time ago and had made peace with not being involved in that. My God was the God that was break glass pull handle the emergency God, right?

You know, when you when you fly a fighter and you're surrounded by fuel and high explosive ordinance and that engine fire light comes on,

you are talking to God right there. We are personal friends right then. And that's what my higher power was. If I had to hit my knees, I would start probably start talking to God. And he introduced this concept of a higher power. And for a long time that was my sponsor and the people in the meetings, because that's that's all I can manage at the time. And we get to the third step and we write it and then and the way he did it was is we got down. We actually read the third step out of the big book and we got on our knees and and used the word Co alcoholic. And then we read the we

the third step prayer. And when he said we're going to get on our knees, it's like, I don't think so. And, and he said, no, we're going to do this one on our knees, Gordie. And you know,

that was the first man that I ever had an intimate relationship with real intimacy. And you know, I had learned to trust him and I, and I wanted what he had because this guy was calm and quiet and I and he, you know, he never punished me. He never jerked me up by my collar and said, we're going to have a problem. He gave me direction and correction. And I'm profoundly grateful for that man. So I did what he asked. I got down on my knees and we did, we did the third step and he starts me on the 4th. And I the first one I did was the sheets

that that a A uses and I filled those out. And I don't know if you've had this experience, but

I started putting him off. I did not want to tell him who I was. And he kept asking me done. Oh, not yet. And I get a phone call from him one day and he says, what are you doing this weekend? I'm not doing anything. He says, good, pack your bag. We're going to our sponsorship retreat in Montana. Bring your 4th step.

So I packed this up. I get on this airplane, we fly out in the Montana. We get there afternoon, the Suburban pulls up with all these guys laughing and smacking each other and having good times. Like don't touch me man,

I'll hurt you.

And we drive out into the Beartooth Mountain. It's a 2 hour drive. You wind up on a gravel Rd. We get there at sunset and this is a dual program sponsorship thing. And at their tradition is at sunset, they gather up, they hold hands in a circle and they do the 7th step prayer. And I'm looking at these guys like I am in a cult.