The SRI Roundup in Scottsdale, AZ

Thank you.

Thank you.

See, it's not that the phone rings, it's just that they're so goofy. Those ringtones. It's like, Oh my gosh, it just freaks me out. My name is Chris Kramer. I'm a very grateful recovered alcoholic

and I probably look like some kind of a ghost here. It's bad enough I've got to wear an eye patch, but I've got the stage lighting to go with it.

We may levitate out of here before this is all over.

I listen. Thanks. Whoever had anything to do with me getting here, thanks for doing it. I love Phoenix and I, I, I started speaking out here about 15 years ago and I had the opportunity to do it a few times. And yes, I know it's hot, but it's a dry heat. I know I've heard it all. I've heard it all. It just and the architecture is gorgeous. And I got to tell you, the people are the absolute nicest. So thanks for letting me come out here.

Some of the A a groups that I talk at the the felt, the fellowships that I've they're not as good looking as this budget

surprise to some of you. I mean, even the ugly people are good looking. I don't.

I don't know. I don't know. This is great

but but this podium is a lot like something we would do in Ingram, TX

what can I say I'm delighted to be here a Kristen of the posse picking up at the airport and got me here OK and they're going to take me back in the morning. I wish I could stay all weekend. I'm so

I've got a job interview tomorrow night. I got to go. I listen. I got to tell you real quick, get it out of the way. Some of y'all are asking, but I got canned about 3 weeks ago. I got, I got, I got terminated and my my old sponsor Mark y'all, y'all are laughing. Y'all trust me, it's I'm on, my old sponsor said. But you ain't lived until you've been

fired in sobriety. And I and I

and I did the same thing. I'd lie. I said, yeah, right, OK, there's no big deal. But I owe amends to every guy I've ever worked with. I mean, I've worked with hundreds of men and I've on the phone with a lot of people in around the world. I get to speak and I, you know, they lose their job and they call me and I, and it's the same stuff comes out of my mouth. You know God's got something better for you and all this and

I got and I am so sorry. I make a public amends to every

because you've got to come up with some better crap than that you don't understand. I just lost my job

in it like it is. It's always a catastrophe. It's happened to you. Other than that, it's just no big deal. You know,

I'm delighted to be here and let me let me do my little little 10 second disclaimer. I'm going to get seasick before this podium's over. We're going to fix it for you, Sandy, tomorrow night. Those will be nice and steady for you to hold on to,

but I'll just sit here and sway back and forth. That's OK,

It's a pirate thing. I know somebody else. I,

I'll go ahead and say it now before you all start.

I know if I if I hear one more pirate joke. I mean, I don't, I don't know.

I I want the

pretty good, it's better. Ain't it nice to have a man around the house?

I am,

I got sober in 1987, folks, after years of messing with this thing, trying to get well. And I'll tell you some about that in the in the hour. But I, I,

I started traveling around a little bit speaking from the podium, not necessarily because I was too witty, but you know, some of the stuff that I talk about,

some of this stuff I talk about rings real true with some people, especially these little chronic relapsers that have tried 1000 times to get sober. And So what I want to do tonight is the same as I do always is I want to share a little bit of my story with you. And it's my experience and it, and it just, I mean, y'all look around this room, guys. We got lots of different people coming from lots of different avenues here. And the chance of you having the same experience with me, that's as one of the things that drives me crazy in a a sit around the rooms long enough and you'll hear somebody tell your story.

Still waiting.

Please. I'm just, it's my story and I and I and I did. And I'm not trying to be controversial. I'm not trying to pick a fight with anybody. And I'm a big book thumper. Finally in 1987, someone, somebody understood the traditions and they understood that the meetings formats could actually change. You mean something besides an open discussion meeting where you come and talk about your horrible day? Oh my God,

and in four days I'll be in Denmark and I'll say the same thing and I'll get the same applause and we'll go straight back into the meetings and continue to do it. It drives me crazy. I just want to scream. But see some of y'all in here really like those meetings. And if you can just go to 90 meetings in 90 days and you can stay sober and never work a step, how cool is that? Rock on. I just, I just think that's cool, but it's just not my experience. So I'm going to share a different experience

from a little big book thumper perspective and you're a little meeting maker, kind of a knucklehead. And and I hope that

and I hope you go away soon, but you know, we're going to have a good time. Just understand I'm coming from a little different spot than you are everybody. It's amazing to me how many how many times when we're speaking out there that people want to take exception with the big book thumpers perspective. I introduced myself on the podium and I always have because my sponsor told me he showed me in the book. You should, after the obsession to drink leaves, you should start introducing yourself as a recovered alcoholic.

But thanks to treatment centers, we've got all these little recovering Alcoholics ganging in there. My question is, when are you going to get well? You know, 'cause I, I'm just saying we could use your help in the trench. You know, we could, we're going to talk some about that, but it's my, you don't have to agree with everything I say. And that's just OK. And I, no, I don't want to talk about it after the meeting. Just go away.

I used to say that. And the users come up and try to explain to me why we're always going to be recovering, we're always going to be sick. And I don't know why, because my counselor.

Oh my gosh,

I

I was raised up in Kerrville, TX, Ingram, Texas, down the Hill Country. We're about 60 miles West of San Antonio. A lot of you guys that drove to the International Conference drove right through my town

and

didn't notice it, did you? It's that impressive. It's just nothing going on there and except it's all dried up now. I guarantee it. We're we're in the middle of a of a Butte, but my father was an alcoholic. He's passed away long. He's the nicest man you'd ever want to come across. He was one of these periodics. He could stay sober for long periods of time and then, and then something barometric pressure would change or something he would, he'd be off and and

wonderful guy. My mom's a professional artist and still around today, and

we had a wonderful family, good Baptist upbringing and no goofy stuff going on. But my twin brother and I

got the genetic bullet. You guys can argue this until the cows come home, but this genetic predisposition is pretty, is pretty. Some of us get it, some of us don't. And there's some of you in here that believe it's about the bad thing that happened to you. And I'm probably that exacerbated the problem, but it didn't cause you to be an alcoholic, caused you to be a hard drinker. But an alcoholism is a little illness all in its own. Folks got people out there want to argue whether this is a disease or not. I don't know. Why don't you take it up with the American Medical Association? They seem to be pretty clear that this is a disease.

I watch people die of this illness every week.

I work in the treatment center field and have for a million years and

up until about 3 or 4 weeks ago.

I have a long time I've worked in that industry and it's a I get, I get really,

I'm like a mother bear around Alcoholics Anonymous with these in these hospitals, because I've heard every any bad thing that's ever been said about Alcoholics Anonymous. I get to hear in the treatment center. I mean, these guys will come into treatment. You know, they'll be in down, in, down in the little detox unit. And about the time they, they start clearing the Ativan, you know, the little eyes look at, you know, they're, you know, they're getting better because they start noticing women, the guys that are in there, you know, they spent the last three days in a fetal position crying, you know, begging for help, you know, and, and that now all of a sudden, you know, they got their sunglasses.

Everything's cool now,

checking, checking the babes out at events, wearing off and hook up on the wall and they go, oh man, the steps were on the wall. This is this is an AA place. I thought for this kind of money, we'd be doing something different.

Yeah, I know a lot of places out there do, you know, I go pet chickens and whatever. I don't care what you do. But a lot of. But guys, we've got some experience out there goes that. The 12 steps work. Alcoholics Anonymous works

when you actually do it.

They always look up after that and it's, oh, you know, I went to AA, I tried that. It didn't work. No, what you did was go to a bunch of meetings. You see, if you're a real alcoholic, you're not going to stay sober going to a bunch of meetings if that's all you do and you're the Real McCoy. I mean, that in itself is so controversial. People ask you to leave the podium. Well, meetings are what keeps us sober.

I think last time I looked it was God that kept me sober,

maybe I'm wrong.

We had another 30X. We'd soapbox this because at some point we were a spiritual program of action and we turned into this self help program where the meetings were the big focus. And I'm not knocking meetings, I still go to a bunch of meetings a week as I can. But we sure separate a lot of people by making that the focus. Just just don't drink, go to meetings and everything will be OK. My experience is if you just don't drink and you're a real alcoholic and all you do is go to meetings, you're going to gradually go insane

and the pain of staying sober will gradually outweigh the benefits. And one day down the road with Chris Raymer, it's about two weeks. With me, it's about two weeks. And I hear this little voice and about two week sober, two weeks, you know, Oh my God. And I hear this little voice that says

you could probably have one beer

because I'm nuts and I'm coming apart and everything you're doing is pissing me off. And I don't know what it's about, but you seem like a good idea a few years ago, but now you, you know, it's, it's everybody elses fault. And now, yeah, you'll understand this. See, guys, I got to say this and get it out of the way. Alcohol is not the problem for Chris Raymer. It's not. I've been, I've been detoxed so many times. I know the protocol. I mean, I alcohol is not the problem.

Alcoholism's the problem.

You're with us on that one.

The

you can hear it.

Can you hear it, Sandy? It's the same thing. No, it's not. Because if alcohol is a problem and you quit drinking, your life's going to be better. Everything's just happy, joist and free. The problem is, is that most more of us end up often ourselves in sobriety in dry time than we do out there drinking and drugging. It becomes painful. It's progressive in nature, folks. And for some of us, we can put lots of dry time together, just like my talking about my dad could do for long periods of time

given sufficient reason. Some of the women I've seen in this room,

I can stay sober.

I can stay sober for periods of time. And then this crazy, insane word. I start arguing with myself on the way to work why it's OK for me to a handful of pills. As long as I don't drink, everything is OK. You know, maybe smoke a little pot because I didn't say anything about that. And now we're off to the stupid. I got to have something inside to fix what's wrong with me.

Have you ever watched people in Alcoholics Anonymous? Some of you guys, old timers in here that have been around for a little while. Have you ever watched people end up they laid the booze down and now all of a sudden they're picking up all this other stuff. Well, you know, we, we gained 300 lbs or we're hooked up to the Internet porn or we're doing we're

Oh my God, the lottery scratch off tickets, you know, Oh my God,

God, why is it that we take our focus on the some of y'all got real uncomfortable when I started talking about that stuff. But I'm looking for something to fix what's wrong with me and it's what I'm trying to fix is untreated alcoholism. That makes sense.

My first. Yeah, my first attempt at alcohol. Thanks Dad.

My first attempt in Alcoholics Anonymous was in the early 80s folks. And that's that's my shtick. I mean, that's my deal is that I spent seven years in Alcoholics Anonymous and nobody was talking about any of that and I left Kerrville, I left the Hill Country real back to the story. Fast forward and and I went to the Houston, TX. I wanted to be a cook and I 1971 January that the month that Bill Wilson passed away, I took my first drink,

Boone's Farm apple wine. And

can you

can you feel the love in here? I mean, I don't come on, like I said,

I got, I don't know what's in that said. I don't think it's ever seen a grape, but it's pretty, you know,

It's the only thing I ever that I ever drained that got prettier when it was coming back up. Then it's like it's like lime green. Try it. Never mind. No, no.

I'm sitting up next to one of them big old Cypress trees and we drank this Boone's farm. I've told the story a gazillion times. And I'm with a little buddy of mine and he looked at me and he drank it and he spit it out. He says that's too sweet. I just can't drink it. And he said, he said I'm going home. And I said, oh, so let me get this straight. You don't want me to save you any of this? You don't you? You're done with this bottle. Is that correct?

Yes.

And I finished it. It was a little bottle, wasn't one of those big bottles. And I didn't get drunk, I didn't get squashed, I didn't rob liquor stores. I didn't take my clothes off. I didn't do anything that I hear you guys talk about.

I I got up and walked across this field and it is big old full moon up here in the Hill Country and realized for the first time why my dad drank like my dad drank. He wasn't so far off base and I was to spend the next 18 years trying to get back to there. You'll understand. We used to do it in cooking. You'd have a couple of beers, Guys. I don't want to get drunk.

When I get drunk, I do stupid stuff. I I fight with people that I love dearly. I what I want to do is get right and every alcoholic that's ever drank and knows exactly what I'm talking about, You talk to people that don't know what they're talking about. They come into treatment. Why do you drink? I drink a good shit face, man. That's a lie. That's not true. That's not true unless you're 17 years old, eighteen. Maybe that's the maybe that's the case. But as you get some responsibilities, I don't want to get squashed. I want to get comfortable in my skin, and I can tell you exactly how

drinks I got to get to get there. You'll follow. Problem is, is this phenomenal craving that Doctor Silkworth in the front of the book does such a masterful job explaining starts to kick in and now all of a sudden I start missing the target just a bit, you know,

and occasion and occasionally I will over drink and it gets to be and it gets to be pretty nasty and and that's the problem when we first start drinking everything is just the coolest. It's just it's up. It's

listen, when alcohol was working for me, I got to tell you, I've said it from You Couldn't Touch Me, John Travolta had nothing, nothing on me.

I'm drinking through the seven. I got me a pair of high heels just like never. You

y'all wouldn't understand how cool I was when it was working. And that's the problem. If it was still working, we'd all still be doing what we're doing. But the progression of the stuff is you do it and it's fun and it's OK for a while. As it gets worse, it's still fun, but there's some problems to be dealt with. That's when a lot of people start coming to treatment. You do it long enough, it's it's hell on earth.

You don't want to drink, but you can't not drink. And that's the realization when you're standing in front of the mirror and realize that the deals up that

that you can't not do it and all the excuses in the world are running thin.

That's real alcoholism, folks. That's why we drink our livers up. That's why we drink and lose our babies, our kids. That's why we lose our job. That's why we we're not having fun doing that.

Let me tell you, this is just a hypothesis of mine based on a lot of research from a lot of people. But this is this is what I believe happened

because the water started to get muddy around the 80s and the 90s. We had a pretty clear message for a long period of time. Bill Wilson and his absolute wisdom wrote this stuff down in the big book and got real clear about the spiritual program of action. He says over and over that perhaps a spiritual solution to the problem would work for you. And he talks about this God thing. He talks unapologetically about the spiritual experience that we're supposed to have.

And over the years, what we've done is we've we've managed to water that all down because we don't want to offend anybody.

This is so not about religion. He was so open about this. You can believe in whatever you want to believe in, but you got to believe in something bigger than yourself.

And for anybody to say opposite of that just kind of smacks against what Bill Wilson was writing in the book.

In 1971, there was a piece of legislation called a Hughes Act that came down the Pike which allowed treatment centers to open on every street corner. There were like 7 elevens. Every hospital in the country had a had a detox wing. On the surface that was a good thing because so many of us got got well in those in those in that era thanks to those treatment centers. But what happened was in order to keep those beds open, what we had to do is we had to cast that big net out and we didn't care if you were an alcoholic or an addict or not. If you kind of looked like one

and you had good insurance

back in the 80s, didn't matter if he had good insurance or not. If you had any insurance, it would pay like slot machines, it would pay. So we we'd scoop you up and we scooped up real Alcoholics and real drug addicts. I'm glad we got them in treatment. We also picked up hard drinkers and moderate drinkers and fruit cakes and nut cases and nut jobs and

people that were lonely and didn't have anybody to talk to. We

The problem is a lot of those knuckleheads are still here.

They're the ones they're the ones with their wonderful of listen, I don't just when you decide you're sick and tired of being sick and tired, you'll just quit. Just put the plug in the jug and everything will be OK Rock on. I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. I'm going to put the plug in the jug. My problem is I have a mental insanity called this, this, this, this power of choice that I've lost. On page 24 it says that tells me that that I'm going to pull this plug back out

even when I don't want to. But because you can put the plug in the jug, you think I should be able to put the plug in the jug

on my own power? Does that make sense?

From 1935 when Bill Wilson, Doctor Bob got together till 1976 with 36 years, we had our first 500,000 members of Alcoholics Anonymous. From 1971 to 1976, five years, we got another 500,000 into our fellowship. You know where all those people came right into our fellowship via the treatment centers. I'm not knocking that how cool that was, but the problem is, is that the messages got so damn watered down because of all of that. Everybody putting their own spin on it and I'm

knocking any of that. If it worked for you, great. I'm not complaining about that. I'm just saying you got to be careful because if your message is different than what's in the big book, your confusion, folks.

In early 90s, the last stat I look at in the early 90s, we had over 40% of all the hospital beds in the United States were psychiatric or alcohol and drug related beds.

Can you all imagine that? I mean, there's just not that many drunks in the, in the United States. They're just not. That's just where the problem, I believe, lied.

I was in Houston in an apprenticeship program and doing real well. And this old boy came up, one of the executive chefs I worked for. And he said, Chris, we got a food and beverage director's job opening up and you're showing some great talent here and but we're a little concerned about your drinking. And he said, well, we all drink in the kitchen. He said yeah, but you take it a step further.

I'm not. I'm not. There's not a bunch of drama with my drinking folks. You all understand it. It's perfectly normal to come at the end of the shift and I'll be passed out in the walk in quietly

sitting on a case of lettuce

minding my own business. Y'all OK,

he said. Chris, if you can stop and this is one of my first indicators that there was a problem because all I had to do to get this food and beverage directors job was to not drink

at minimum reel it in some. And I couldn't, I couldn't pull it off.

And I started seeing counselors and therapists at that point and started going to treatment and I spent ten years in therapy and I'm grateful for every bit of it. If there's any therapist in here, you've got a special crown in heaven for putting up with our crap. I got to tell you because I never gave him much of A much of a straight shot, but

one of the cool things about seeing some of these therapists back in those days of the 80s, nineties was that you get lots of medication around that. And if I can't drink, I'm a real fan of medication and I'm

and I'm taking 7 pills a day from all doctor prescribed medications and I'm not up here to knock any of that. I'm just saying,

come on, guys, I'm I'm not a whack job. I'm not, I don't know. I'm I'm a garden riding, textbook untreated alcoholic who needs a spiritual experience in order to recover. When I ended up doing was getting way overly medicated. I mean, like guys, in my last days of drinking, I could, I would pee green. I mean, it was just like I would, I would glow in the dark. I'm taking so many meds, a lot of these pills that you guys, some of your, I did the test study on. So

Oh my gosh. And I started moving around a bunch. I did a bunch of geographicals. I finally got married. A counselor told me, he said, Chris, you need to set some roots down. You get married, you'd stay sober.

How'd that work for you? And,

and I, I finally found a girl that, that believed that, you know, I mean, she was a helper. She was a nice lady. And I, she, she married me. And it was terrible what I did to this woman. I just, I, I was just never there. And we moved up to North Texas to be closer to my family. I moved her away from her family so I could be close to my family because I'm the one that's having trouble staying sober.

We need all the support around me we can possibly get. But my twin brother, of course, was my best drinking buddy. Anyway, he got so over a few, few, few months after I did, thank God. But I was up in North Texas and I got a job at a Country Club and everything's going to be OK. And guys, I don't know, y'all remember the progression of this illness, how it gradually got bad? And then, like, at a certain point, it was like those Roadrunner cartoons, you know, where the little guy drops off the Cliff

at the bottom, You know, that was it. Like, my drinking is like, it was OK for a while. It was holding it together pretty good. And then it got really, really bad. Really. I used to drink a case of beer and go to work.

I mean, I just that's so did a lot of you, you

come on, guys, I drive better when I'm drunk. I know. And there was a point, you know, you just we could, we could hold mass quantities of alcohol. But what happens is in stage alcoholism, some of you can relate to this, is that you can't metabolize the stuff like you used to. So less and less will get you more and more in trouble, if you all know what I mean. Now that now I'm, I've got 22 drinks in me, I'm slurring my words. And that's where a lot of people end up saying I think I need a a because I don't know why I can't drink like I used to be able to. You with us guys, it's in stage alcoholism. You're dying,

your body shutting down. Pay attention.

No, I had a little domestic disturbance with this woman and we ended up

late, late, late that night. She said, she said, Chris, you know, what was this about? And I said, I was drunk and I'm loaded on some other outside issues and I just, I'm a mess. And she said, you got to, you want this to work or not? And I looked at her in the face and I and I told her that I would quit drinking, just like I told that executive chef that I loved and respected so much. And with tears in my eyes. I get so sick and tired of hearing people laugh from the podium. You know, if an alcoholic's mouth is moving, he's lying. That's not true

and it's disrespectful. That's not true. When I looked her in the face and told her I was going to quit, I meant every fiber in my body. I'm done. I'm not enjoying this. It's taken the one thing I love the most away. I'm done.

I didn't understand that I didn't have the power to manage that decision, but the decision was made in good faith.

It drives me crazy when a newcomer comes into a meeting and he picks up a chip. It's all embarrassed. And we sit there and we talk to him, and a few weeks later he's gone and somebody leans over his. Well, I just knew the little bastard didn't want it. I knew he didn't want it bad enough. What? Well, my question to you is, did we tell him how to get well or did we just tell him to keep coming back?

I went to an, a a meeting that night and the next day I went to my first AAB is the early 80s and walked up these old steps and this old building downtown Denton and his old geezer sitting in an easy chair. You know, one of those, what do they call those lounger things? You know, when you when you lay back and had one light hanging down in the middle of this room. And I mean, you all seen that scene in Psycho.

Y'all think I'm making this up? People e-mail me or you just that was exactly that that he he set up in that easy chair and I like I freaked me out. I'd like to old guy, he says, he said.

He said. Do you have a desire not to drink today

I hope to kiss a pig. Absolutely.

I got 1/2 finished court in the truck. Does that count? I mean, I'm in, but I want to stop. That's what he asked me. What he was doing is qualifying, qualifying me for membership and Alcoholics Anonymous, which is he should have done. But in the next seven years, nobody qualified me with the illness of alcoholism, period. Nobody ever found out if I was the real deal or not. As long as I had a desire not to drink today, I could come in the rooms. I'm not saying that we're making wrong choice by doing that. I'm saying that's all he did for me.

Makes sense.

I'm sitting in the room, of course. And I didn't stay sober. I went home that night and I said, boy, it was fascinating in that meeting. Fascinating. You would not believe some of the some of the crazy people we have living in this town with us right now. And I'm so glad that most of those people are sober today because I mean, they're scary, you know, because I got to hear all about how many people you chopped up and how many. Oh my God, It was just an amazing thing.

And I opened a beer in the refrigerator. She said, what are you doing? I said well, after, after that, I mean, I need at least a beer, you know,

I stayed sober a couple of weeks and she, she, I came home after work one day and I drank a couple of beers on the way home. And she, she smelled it and packed her stuff and left.

And I will spend the next five years drinking, blaming her. Unbelievable. I went to work for my twin brother up in North Texas and he owned a book bindery. And I couldn't work in the field anymore, couldn't cook anymore. I couldn't stand that long. My hands are shaking too bad to hold a knife. And

Myers used to laugh. He'd get on the intercom and said, cancel Chris's surgeries for the day, you know, 'cause I'd be back there shaking so bad, you know, it's just

funny, boy. Our families, you know, and

1987, it's on a cold Thursday night. I'll never forget it. And I went home about 3:00 and stopped about a 12 pack of beer and went into the, my little apartment, picked up the, the, the, the stack of return checks. I get my mail once a a month just to make sure I get, you know, because it's depressing. And I've got some hot checks in there back in the day where they put checks in individual envelopes. So you could sit there and open

like Christmas, you know, you can open. You got 6 hot chicks, you'd have 6 envelopes in there. Remember that those days. I don't know if they still do it, but

Oh my God. And I sat there on the floor and I opened those, those checks up and I here I am 35 years old and I bankrupted another checking account and I'm gonna have to go to my sister-in-law and come on, guys. My, my drinking and drugging career. I'm, I'm my, I'm, I'm what they call it. How do I put it? I'm a functioning alcoholic. You'll, you'll follow. I'm not losing jobs because I'm drinking. I'm quitting a gazillion job because I'm drinking.

I I I would I would be at a penthouse one month and two months later I'm in a garage apartment in the Heights in Houston eating out of dumpsters.

Not for a long period of time. Food is not bad.

If you don't mind fighting a cat for it, it's not bad. I don't know,

Patties, my wife, she asked me. Why do you hate cats so much?

I tell you what, until you set in a hot dumpster, you're in the middle of the night looking for food and have a cat jump out at you, you don't know what fear is.

Somebody came up after we someplace out speaking. They said, oh, but they're God's creatures too.

I've never gotten that. Well, guys, I don't want to tell you

I

I'm sitting on the floorboard that the floor of my little apartment and I just, I can't do this and I'm humiliated and I'm taking all these medications and I don't have money to pay for them and I,

I was just done. I don't know, some of y'all have gotten to that spot. It's just I'm done. I've tried a a I've tried therapy, I've tried treatment. I've sat naked in sweat lodges.

I even did colonics one time

come on guys. No kid you, you got to want to get sober bad to do that. I mean, I,

I got to tell you this, I never states over one day, but my complexion was something else. I got to tell you

picked up nice.

I got up from the floor and I went to the medicine cabinet and took a couple bottles of pills and tried to commit suicide. Absolutely nothing romantic about it. I was just done. It wasn't that I was I didn't, I wasn't hurting that night anymore than I was hurting any other night that I was that I was so banged up. I just got tired of letting people down. I'm I've let myself down a million times, but I can't tell you I'm going to stay sober and watch your face again when I relapse. This is this is This is why I keep doing this from the podium even though some of you get grindy.

Is that that that I know the answer. I know the solution. I've been in Alcoholics Anonymous for seven years. You'll find this incredulous. I know because you may come from a group where they talk solution, but I'm in a group where there's not a big book in the place and the only thing that you know about the steps is what you can read up on the wall. And nobody talks about them. They talk about their day. They tell war stories. I mean, that's what we do with the newcomer. Whoa, Chris is coming back. Let's tell us how he how he got here. And then I get to hear all of your damn war stories. How many DWI you got? The stuff

you should have been telling me in a 12 step call, now you're telling me as a general fodder in an AA meeting. I'm just saying there's nothing wrong with our stories. You better have one. If you're going to be effective in this program, you better have a good one. You're with us Friday night from the podium. You better have 1:00. And then in that 12 step call you need to have, if you're going to make it, any kind of contact with this newcomer, you need to tell them some stories. Just what the book says. But why is it that we think it's perfectly OK to go in and waste our hour during the day? Maybe the only meeting we get a chance to see this guy to tell

and one more story.

Listen, stick with me until I get to the end of this because I want you to understand what I'm saying. I ain't knocking the story. You're sitting at the picnic table and you want to visit a little bit. Let's do that. It's like my same problem with with the problem solving meeting. Why do we go to AA to fix every problem in the world in in Texas. And I don't know about you guys, but in Texas, you come into my meeting and start talking about crack cocaine. Somebody will stop you in a heart. Excuse me. This is a a we're here to talk about the problems with alcohol. Oh yes, and I'm not knocking that. That's we we're here to talk about alcohol. I don't have a problem with that.

Oh, I'm glad we got that little drug addict out of here. By God, now we can get back to this important stuff.

Well, I got a letter from my grandkids the other day and well, you know, and this is.

And the and then the 19 year old alcoholic sitting in the back detoxing in my meeting quietly gets up and leaves.

Do I think you need to talk about those grandkids? You better believe it. Come before the meeting. Come after the meeting. Call me on the phone.

Let's visit. Let's talk jobs. Let's visit. About that. Let's,

But if you think I'm going to take up an important meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous where we're supposed to be talking about the spiritual solution that's been given to us, talking about my not having a job, you don't hold your breath.

The fellowship doesn't stop at the end of the meeting. The fellowship goes 24 hours a day, seven days a week where we live in the fellowship. I got buds all over the world. I can talk to some of you in this room, have been instrumental all my life, all my sober life,

but I'm not going to take time in a meeting to do that because I'm supposed to be bearing witness to God's power in that meeting. People e-mail me from all over. You think every a meeting ought to be a pep rally? Pretty much.

Oh man, I got up in medicine cabinet, took those pills and about the time those they hit my stomach I heard a voice that said don't do this. Go back to AA. This wasn't a thought. Perhaps you should give a another. This is a voice I heard that guys and it could have been the guys vacuum cleaner name. I don't know what it was. Don't do this. Go back to AA

and

because somebody always asked, it was a guy's voice for me, some of you, it seems to be a woman's voice. I don't know. Lots of people hear that voice. Don't know. Wasn't it a discussion? Don't do this. Go back to a A and I'm arguing with a voice.

I'm kicking the ferret cage to see if it's the ferrets. You know, I,

I've done a, a just like so many people I've done I'm 90 meetings in that I'm a meeting making fool

and I'm seven years and still don't have a 30 day chip.

Went to work the next day, made myself sick and, and the next morning I heard the voice one last time and I went to to work. And that night at 6:00, I went back to an AA meeting. I've never been to this meeting before. I've been to the front of it. A guy 12 step me three years before I'd come out of my first blackout and he said, Chris, let's go to this meeting. It's a big book meeting

and I just said, what's that? He said. We study the literature

and I remembered it and I was running late and it was between me and the house. I'm detoxing and I said I'm going to go to this meeting and then I'm going to go home and chill for the weekend. It was Friday the 13th 1987 and I walked in the back door. This meeting, I believe it was part of my first piece of my spiritual experience. I got out of that truck and walked into a meeting I didn't want to walk into. Didn't know anybody. Some of y'all know me as shy as I am and I just I just didn't know from the podium. I'm not shy. If you ever talk to me on one-on-one, you better bring a conversation with you because it's not going to be

in that ride. I just, I'm horrible. I'm just, I'm an epic conversation. But I, I walked into the room. It was, this is back in the day. Some of you, some of you knew guys remember back in what used to be you could smoke in every meeting. They didn't have non-smoking meetings. I mean, goofy people went to non-smoking meetings. We could go, we walked into this meeting. This is why, because they all had six or seven cigarettes out of there. Everybody that smoked had six.