Steps 2 and 3 at the 2nd Annual Stay Sober For Keeps Workshop in Laguna Niguel, CA

You know, I won't have time to do my whole spill on three, but I, you know, he covered a whole lot of ground on this Step 2 stuff. I kind of told you about mine last night, you know, was sitting down with Cliff. I come into that meeting and and and I'm dying. My brain is screaming for booze. I'm shaking. I vibrate and he sits down and he identifies with me and he gets me where he needs to get me. And he asked me the questions. Are you a real alcoholic? And I'm yes, I'm an alcoholic. And he tells me that I am screwed,

right? He didn't use that word,

but the next question he asked me is, do you believe it works for me?

And I said yes, and then he went down. That was all. That was the flimsy read that I had getting in this door. I hoped what worked for the old man would work for me. Why? Because I'm desperate in step one. He did not at that time take it upon himself to talk about me, about the essence of God.

You know, chapter four, we agnostics talks about prejudice, prejudice, prejudice. I went to church as a kid. I went to Vacation Bible school, I went to Pine Cove and Sky Ranch. I did all that stuff. I never stopped believing in God, but I felt that God was not where I'm at because God don't go the role, the places I go, you know?

And when I got into a a land, it was

everybody talking about their HP and this, and it just made me nuts. So I had some prejudice to overcome, but I started with that flimsy read of hope.

And the kind of segue from there is

I had this guy that I sponsor, he does not believe the same way that I believe my sponsor has actually tried. This guy's been around for decades.

He does not believe in God

and Cliff had given it a go on many, many times. And I worked with this guy and we actually made a good beginning

and he had like six months good and everything was rock'n'roll. His life was transforming and the rubber met the road on a certain occasion in his personal life. And I remember the call. I was working at the Crescent Hotel or Crescent. Anyway,

he calls me and I said, Brad, we know what to do,

All right? We've talked about this, we've prayed about this. Get your butt down to two, four and help these guys and we'll let God sort out this mess. Now, at that point, the math was real easy.

Do what the program asks

or go do what you always do. And I didn't hear from him. He was supposed to call me in a couple hours. He never called me

and he was gone, dropped off the face of the map and nobody knew where Brad was. And about a year and a half later, I get this feeble, weak call.

And it was him

and he's a little older than me, you know, five or six or ten years, whatever it is. And he told me that he was living it. He was at, he was at a nursing home in Oak Cliff, which is where I live, a nursing home. He said, can you come see me? And I went and sat down with him. Pitiful. He's got a colostomy back. They have, he has drank so much he fell out in the downtown Dallas. They started removing parts of his stomach and internal organs because of alcohol

and I give him a pack of smokes and he tells me this story. Now this guy knows the big book.

The guy knows the literature as good as any man out there. He knows the drill

and I've been round and round with them about this deal and I listen to his sad story and it was sad. It was heartbreaking. And he says I'm ready to do anything.

And there was part of Maine that wanted to hit my knees right then and do the deal.

Yeah. So this is what we're going to do, buckaroo. You know what's in this book? You know what the program asks?

Here's your pack of smokes. I want you to do a little soul searching tonight.

Go out there on the little patio, look up in the heavens, talk to Mother Earth. Do what you got to do, dude.

And if you want to make a decision to go through with this. And he tells me this story right about him going into the hospital. And the last thing he remembers, he doesn't remember him passing out. The next thing he knows, he's in Parkland Hospital and they're rushing him into emergency surgery. And he remembers the surgeon telling him, Mr. Hall, you're in bad shape. There's nine out of 10. You're probably not going to survive the surgery.

And Brad's telling me that he he was thankful

because finally he gets to get out of the game because he can't live sober and he's going to die drunk and he's done.

And the next thing he remembers, he remembers tugging at his throat and everything. And he comes to and the nurses are strapping them down

because he's trying to pull the tubes out of his deal. And he finally puts two and two together and realized that he survived the surgery. And I said, well, what? What happened? He's like, I was frigging pissed. Why are you pissed?

And he goes,

because God would let me live through this.

I didn't say anything because Brad's got a problem with God. He don't believe in God. So he tells me this little story and I'm like, all right, you do some soul searching buckaroo and you call me tomorrow, the next day or whatever. And if you want to do this deal, we'll do this deal. He calls me the next day. He says I'm ready. So I went back over to this nursing home and we got a little big book. Can't get any privacy there. So we're out in their parking lot and he says I'm ready. He goes, I want to do this book, I want to do the third step and let's get going.

I said, all right, before we do that, I need to ask you a question about your story last night.

And I said, were you telling me the truth?

Got offended. I said, well, that little part about you being pissed off after surgery, why are we? And he tells me again, I said, Brad, you don't believe in God. How are you? Can you be pissed off at God?

And he was like a train wreck in his head.

And I said, Brett, I know we believe a little bit different, right? And I'm not asking you to believe as I believe, but do you believe it works for me? And he's like, dude, I know your story. I know it works for you. Great start there. Look up there and say to Mother Earth, the spirit of the ocean, whatever. Believe in the power. He goes, I believe in the power. There's some power out there. And it's got to be better than what I got. Great. And we hit our knees in the parking lot,

right, and did his third step prayer. And I told you about my third step prayer because I'm screwed in, one, I hope, and two, we'll get to all that stuff. I will come to believe in the power, whatever that power is, right? It's guaranteed. It tells. Look at page 50. Actually, we're fooling ourselves for deep down in every man, 55 for every, for deep down in every man, woman and child is the fundamental idea of God. That is a bold statement.

He's saying

that in everyone of us, whether we believe or don't believe, is the idea of God. That's bold.

Have you all ever been in trouble before? I mean like bad trouble.

Real bad trouble

got a trunk full of theirs, a belly full of booze, and the lights are on behind you and you know, right, Or maybe you're at court and you're looking at the judge and you look over at your little dip shit court appointed attorney going Oh no,

have you ever done this?

I swear to God, if you Get Me Out of this, I'll do anything.

Who are you talking to?

And more importantly, who told you to do that?

My Mama didn't pull me aside, as Little John Kelly said. Now Little John Kelly, as you grow older, shit will hit the fan. And when it does, I need you to do a timeout. Look up here and say, God, if you give me, no one taught me how to do that. I was in an impossible situation. I'm running the choices all through my head, ABCD, they all suck. I needed help.

Was that thing that I was talking to, was it everything or was it nothing?

Everything

that I have to know it. No, I hoped it

right.

I've never seen $1,000,000 cash. I believe that it exists.

I know it exists, and I've never seen it, felt it touched it, right. And that's how we got my little buddy Brad back on. He just believes in the power. The book is guaranteed to get me to that power. It says we can only clear the ground a bit if our testimony helps sweep away prejudice, enables you to think honestly, encourage you to search diligently within yourself, not out there in myself.

Then, if you can, then if you wish, you can join us on this broad highway. With this attitude, you cannot fail

treatment center number one through 5. We're not giving me guarantees when I signed in. This has given me a guarantee. If I take this attitude and work this program, I will. I am guaranteed to get to the power that will save my rear. Guaranteed.

But I got to go at it with the desperation of a drowning man. And that's what I try to teach to my guys, you know, And in that first week of my sobriety, my sponsor had me checking in with him every day. He had me reading the stuff in the book. And we got over to his house. You know, I'm what, Tuesday to Saturday? It's like 5 days or whatever. I'm five days sober and we're here on these pages and this is what I show to my new guys. You know that the AB CS on page 60 are a great recap of steps one and two. That we were alcoholic and could not manage our own lives.

I was 35, unemployable. My family didn't want to do have anything to do with me. I was nothing. All right, That is me running the show. That is where I got B. That probably no human power could relieve my alcoholism. Frothy emotional peel, threats, fear.

A lot of kind people tried to help me. I was beyond their power. If I was powerless over people, places and things, my sainted Mama could have kept me sober

because my family is at their all time lows because of my alcoholism and they don't drink.

I'm not powerless. I was beyond human aid. See that God and could it would if you were sought. I didn't know much about God going in, but it worked for you and I hope it worked for me. Why? Because I'm desperate in step one. It's that friggin simple.

In Step 3, they're talking about how do I act as an alcoholic? I'm like an actor who wants to direct a movie. I'm like, it's got to be my way or the highway. I've got to direct. I've got to manage you and manage her and manage this and manage this. Why? Because I'm under the illusion that if I can get my act together and you'll all do it my way, we'll all sing Kumbaya and it'll be great.

And if I got to do that, in order for me to do that, what do I do? I can be real, real nice. And if that don't work, screw you.

And what happens? You don't do it my way, you retaliate. Now I hate you.

Simple,

right? And look at it, that is my life in a nutshell. Over and over and over, whatever I do.

And on 62 he says selfishness, self centeredness that we think is the root of our troubles. He didn't say alcoholism, vodka. No, it's my selfishness and self sinnerness. How is that the root of my troubles? He just touched on it. Page 52 Left to my own devices, I'm selfish, I'm egotistical, I'm full of fear. I got all this stuff. I can't seem to be a real help to other people. I got all this spirituality kicking my behind. It's all self, self, self. Who's been to treatment in here?

Do they do? They do on the beam and off the beam In the Aust treatment they had the on the beam chart and the off the beam, but they have that in every treatment center in Texas. I tell these guys at home are bound, I give you $100 bill right now. Find me one of those off the beam things that ain't selfish. They're all selfish.

Left to my own devices, I'm a selfish self-centered creature and I will get myself to the point to where my brain says screw it, drink. That's how it works. So so so so. The root of our troubles, we think are basically of our own making. They arise out of ourselves. And the alcoholic is an extreme example of self will run riot, though he usually doesn't think so. I just think you're all a holes, right? Never mind that my life is complicated and chaotic, but I just think you all suck, right? I'm the last to see it. It says above

everything, we Alcoholics must be rid of this selfishness. We must or it kills us. How is selfishness going to kill me? Spiritual malady kicks my butt. What does my brain come up with? Drink. I drink. I drink to die. That's how selfishness kills me

and I can't fix my selfishness. I can't. I'm just working on my selfishness. No,

me working on my selfish is more selfish, right? Have you ever shocked yourself? Have you ever tried to be less selfish?

See, it doesn't really work. So it says we had to have God's help. In Brad's case, it was the power. We had to have the powers help, right? And see, when I'm managing and Co managing and micromanaging and what am I doing? I'm playing God and it didn't work. It got me 35 and homeless and pinlingless. I got to give up the ghost

and I shared this with you last night. I mean, this is a simple thing. When we sincerely take such a position, all sorts of remarkable things follow,

right? I've done some doozy, doozy third steps.

It'll melt your heart. They're so cool. I didn't want it. Homer bound where we got to feel the power slogan. I mean, I did like five guys in one night and my buddy Kurt came up. Myers wasn't there. There was

and they said, Kurt said. I turn around and he's like, how'd it go? And I guess I had a grin, a little Jimmy Osmond grin from ear to ear and I'm like, feel the power. I mean, it was mind blowing. These little gang bangers on their knees doing third steps, crying and stuff.

And I'm like four months sober,

all right.

But it's one thing to make a because all I'm doing in 3rd and what I teach my guys, well, all I'm doing in step three is I'm making a commitment with my sponsor and God that I'm going to get off my butt and take these steps.

It's like, oh, it's sunny now. I think I'll go to the liquor store if I never leave the house.

That decision is all for not my decision must be followed up with action. This is all about action. Alcoholics Anonymous is going to ask me to say a prayer. But one of the key things that I think is so important that Cliff told me and I did it last night. We have a new employer being all powerful. He provided what we needed, comma here's the hook provided. We kept close to him and performed his work well.

And he said underline and I underline. He says there's your job description until the day you die.

My job today is the same as it was 12 years ago. My job today is stay close to God and do this work. And I've added on from what Cliff told me, my job is to stay close to God and do this work today. No matter what happens. That is my responsibility. That is my job description. If I want to get all the benefits of having a job, I got to do my job. And it doesn't matter what happens today.

I may lose the job, I may go belly up, she may leave. It does not matter. My job is to get with my sponsor and get with God and go help somebody

and for that I will get everything that I need.

And if God has given me everything I need, what else do I need?

That's pretty simple.

You know, it's a these aren't, these aren't hard concepts, but when I sit there and try to micromanage them in my head and try to pontificate on these spiritual principles, I will get jammed up every time I did that for a lot of you know, sometimes it's kind of a curse to be semi bright

because I think, well, how does that work?

How do I know if I'm being spiritual? You know, how do I know?

Like, dude, just go do and thank God for Cliff and for Myers teaching me in the beginning. This ain't about pontificating and thinking about it. Let's just throw you in the deep end, buckaroo, and go God will get you where you need to go. You know Mother Teresa, never. I don't think I've never talked to her, but I doubt she walked around the streets, walking around Calcutta wondering if she was spiritual.

She just did.

You dig? She did what she did. That was her relationship with God. She didn't sit there and wonder about the essence. She just did,

you know, and that's how you know. My third step prayer with Cliff was really good. And the guys that I do, I tell them the same stuff. We do it the same way that Cliff did it with me, right? We go over all this preliminary stuff. We make sure all our ducks are in a row. But I let them know this prayer is insignificant. It is absolutely 100% meaningless if we don't get up off our knees and hug and you go start working on the rest of this stuff

because the clock is ticking now. This guy's got a weaker or so under his belt. He's done a third step prayer and now the marching orders are my actions today is what shows God how willing I am not to pick up a drink.

And, and so the rubber meets the road after that, you know, But

when they shared with this with me, it was so enlightening to me because it was so utterly simple. If you ever can hear Cliff Bishop do a foundation meeting, one of the things that he said over and over and over and throughout the meeting, over and over and over, he makes a point out of the big book and he says that's simple, isn't it? And you can't argue with them. You can sit there and try. A lot of smart guys that are drunk today have tried.

There's a whole bunch of smart people that can't get sober out there. You know? I'll never sponsor anybody. That was too damn stupid.

I know a lot of guys that are too smart. But you hear the old man talking about it, and he says that's simple and like, yeah, because I spent years kicking around and it was never simple. It was torturous trying to get my head wrapped around all this. Instead, he said, here's the program, here's the action, This is what we're going to do, Let's go do that. And the minute you buck go away

we'll do a couple minutes back the Q&A we got about 10 minutes before we break sure does anybody have any questions Q&A little something rubbing you're wrong did I say something or Mayer say something that totally flies in your face of what you've been taught and you want to take issue. I knew it have it and he's

and he's got a death metal shirt on. All right, let's go. Come on.

Oh, I'm Tim, I'm a recovered alcohol. Is this on? Can you hear me? Yep, let's go mic check 1212. All right, so my question is actually to Myers and and he says if a person already has a conception of God, you might not need to read. We agnostics with your newcomer. And my question is, what about when you bring your newcomer through the work and then they go to sponsor someone and that person

is confused and then the person you worked with doesn't know how to deal with that person who has an issue? Let's clarify that. That's a great question.

The what we're talking about here is, is, is getting guys healthy enough to breathe tomorrow? OK. We're talking about this triage situation where we're trying to get guys healthy and we're going to go back and do this stuff. See, we're we're lucky where we are because all we do is study the text. I mean, we're not there. We're not discussing anything else or this kind of stuff. We got three meetings a week and they're all big book based meetings and we're all always talking about that. So we can bring these guys, get them involved in the meeting and then we bring them along through that. I'm reading through this stuff to them like this. Every man that

we sponsor, regardless of how many there is, all of these guys are getting the text. We're reading the book to them and we're going through this stuff. We're teaching them the things,

as weird as this sounds, the moment you get sober, the moment you get off your knees and we're doing a third step prayer like this. And sometimes this happens the very first night that you're there. I know some of you guys are really shocked the first night that they're there. I mean, I'm talking 60% of the men I sponsor, we're doing step 1-2 and three the first night that they're there. There's no reason to get this stuff drawn out. I understand the thought processes behind it, but we can talk about that and so that you'll understand where I'm coming from.

But the moment you, the moment you get on path, so to speak, and we're getting you set up for your inventory that's coming up, I'm already thinking about what you're going to be telling the guys that you sponsor. And so I'm always asking you these questions. I'm constantly asking you these questions. If you get a guy that you're sponsoring, and this is going to be important, make a note of this, underline this under it's, it's not so much for your ratification in terms of your own recovery because we're already there. It's so that you'll know what it is that you're supposed to do.

Because listen guys, the dead last thing I want, the dead last thing I want is for you to get where I was years into this program and not understand the program and not be able to teach this stuff. I'm going to tell you real quick, there was a, there was a time when all I, all I did was sponsor indigents off the street, brand new guys in off the street. These days, they seem to be split. It seems to have changed because of the places that I'm carrying the message. Most of the most of the cats that I sponsor are

guys my age-old crusty dudes that have been around for a little while are brand new guys. I mean, most of the like them little little milk mustache is still on their mouth. They're so young. They come walking in, they got a little towels they can lay down, you know, like this. I mean, it's like

kids and it and it's the, and it's the coolest thing in the world to have this little army of, of little, little, little a, a Amazons that age and you just, you can't imagine what they're going to do when they're my age. But it's going to be, it's going to be something to see. I hope I'm here to see it. But but these old dudes, let me tell you, that's what they do. I mean, a lot of these times these old guys get in here like this and it takes weeks and weeks and weeks sometimes to break down

the wall of, of arrogance. And it's not, it's not this in your face kind of arrogance. These aren't boastful men. These are simply men that have been around for a while and they, they, they have have garnered a head full of 1 liners. And they, they know a little of this and they know a little of that, but they have made themselves sort of comfort, comfortable and isolated within the fellowship. But when you start asking them specific questions, they start doing exactly what I did, sitting in Cliff Bishop's living room.

All of a sudden you find out. Wait a minute, you don't,

you know what I'm saying? I don't know if I told you this thing about this guy the other night that this old dude that I'm sponsoring and we were, there's two or three old guys there and I said, hey, you guys flip over to flip over to Fred's story. Let's talk about this thing in just a second. And they were, they were, you know, one guy flipped over to the front of the book and the other guy goes to the back of the book and he's looking through the stories and I go, no, no, no, I said Fred's story. You remember Fred and Jim and the jaywalker all like this and, and he's back. He's no, he goes to the front of the stories in the back. I mean, he's, he's studying nowhere. It is

and this guy's been in our rooms for 28 years, something like this. And I'm just but I see this all the time and I'm not trying to jam this cat up. I've got his permission to tell this story like this and and the

I mean, I didn't look at him ago. You are you stupid, which is come on.

I thought that, but I didn't do that. What I did. No, what I did was I said, brother, let me show you, right. It's right. Fred's story in the front of the book, you know, and and so he goes, oh, yeah. And a couple of days later, he says, Myers. He said, I guess by now, you know that I don't understand any of this. And I went, yeah, I was beginning to get that, that picture. But you know what, let's just start over. I mean, let's just start at the beginning of this thing like that. He did his first step talk for a whole month in Houston, I mean, in Dallas here just recently like this. And I'm telling you, he knocked it out of the ballpark and

was a guy who had never in all those years had they ever sponsored anybody. And never in all that length of time had he ever done a talk, an AA talk in AA 28 years into the gig. Crazy. We just go back and gather it up. Did that answer your question?

I mean, I mean like, so so you're saying that you would so so you're saying that you would you would just discuss that with them. Maybe like when you're doing working with others, like kind of pretty quick, I'm gathering these guys back up. But you have done particular issue

because that's quite, it's quite an issue because people don't know how to talk to newcomers when they've already done the steps and they think they're ready to sponsor and they don't know how to work with newcomers that have like particular issues, you know? Yeah, I, I, I understand what you listen, I'm not cutting any guy that I sponsor loose to sponsor anybody until he can answer the questions that I'm asking him until he can teach it to me. And most of my conversations, these guys with men that I sponsor, I'm saying, tell me, tell me what you would do in this case. I'm brand new and I think this and I think

your God sucks. Tell me what you do and he'll tell me. We I mean it's like it's like old school stuff and we'll work through the situation and he builds ahead of knowledge around what it's like to teach big book and then and then he's ready to go. He's ready to go do that deal like that. Listen, guys, I'm telling you, if any stage of the game people go well, you you're forcing these guys through this work and they just going to get sick. They're going to you're going to make them drink. You're going to I've heard every story. We can talk about it off podium if you like. We talk about it this afternoon, if you'd like. The point here is this is that at any stage of the game, if my man

pushes back, I stop.

As long as he's as aggressive as I am, as long as he is motivated to go do this stuff, we're going to make make tracks. But the moment he goes are you sense a push back That means that something's making him feel uncomfortable and worse. We've stopped right there. We're not going to go any farther until that obstacle is done. This is the reason why I don't like the idea of multiple third steps with a whole room full of people. There's a lot of conferences where everybody will get on their knees and do a third step thing. I understand it.

I'm just saying the problem is we're basing all of this stuff as a foundational kind of a situation. So you got five guys in their room that are ready to do that, and you got 10 guys in the room that are ambivalent. They not really sure where they feel about God. Now we're asking this guy to turn his will in his life over to something he's not even sure exists.

And so we do the inventory GroupWise like this. He's there's not a man alive. I promise you, there's not a man alive that has the cones to say, I'm not ready to do this in a room full of his peers that are ready to do this. It ain't going to happen. He's going to go ahead and go through and he'll ask him later. He said, yeah, I did a third step. No, he didn't. And when his program starts falling apart downrange, that's why we stopped doing that years ago. I want I want on this. I I don't mind working the steps with guys in groups together like this. But when we do personal things like

inventory, when we do personal things like like a third step prayer, it's going to be me, him and God in a room by ourselves on our knees doing this stuff. You dig?

Yep, Yep, Yep. Anybody else have a real quick question? We got like 5 minutes. Yes, Sir. Hang on a second, there's a mic coming for you. Hang on a second, there's a mic coming for you. Like that so we can keep it straight. Thanks. I may have not have been listening very closely, but you mentioned something about 5% of the people are able to get and stay sober long term nowadays.

Did that come from General Services? Where does that stat come from and has that changed like over maybe the last five years or no? It's been like that for a long time. Listen, the, the, the stats of this success rate, it varies depending on where you are and what part of the world you're in there. There is some variation. I've never, ever heard any stats that went over 15% of us coming and saying and getting sober. I've never heard stats anywhere that were over that. I've heard them as low as 5%.

Most people settle on 10%

because it's easier to do the math in their head. It still sucks. I mean, it's still just about as bad. But most of these figures come straight from the inner group offices. All of the intergroup offices in all metropolitan areas take inventories of chip sales. All of them, and most of those come from those chip sales. How many people picked up Desire chips 16,888 in Dallas in 2010? 16,888

picked up desire chips 1441 years.

So the question would be, the question would be like this. You can do the math on it, but the question would be, is that what we're talking? Let's round it off. There's 15,000 people, not quite that, but but there's 15,000 people unaccounted for in the fray. And so you listen, I know it's not scientific and people go, oh, well, you know, you're just, we have to have some way to judge this stuff and see. And and so, so listen, if you have, if you had 17,000 people that picked up a desire chip,

I'm going to hand it to you going in that some people picked it up premature and didn't really want what we had. They did. They just left. They had some people

decided they didn't want to do what we did. Some people, I mean, you could, you can, you can glom onto every excuse that you want to is fine. Where I have a problem, guys, is that you cannot justify all of that because it's too hard to get here.

Let me tell you something. How many of you guys remember what it was like when you picked up a desire chip? I don't care how many you picked up, but you remember what it was like to look at the floor. And then they stayed. They get to that part and you go

and you stand up and you walk over and you pick up that chip like this and maybe you're embarrassed maybe or whatever like this. But let me tell you something. We don't pick up aluminum casually. It had to be important enough for us to do it in order for us to do it. And so for you to change from that kind of resolve,

I'm ready to make this graphic illustration and demonstration of my willingness to go through the rest of this stuff to a place where I'm not here anymore. Something had to happen. And I'm just saying, guys, as a fellowship, we need to start looking really closely at what that was that happened. What is it that that happened? And so you don't have to do too much head scratching on it. I'll tell you what, I think you already know where I'm going with this. What I think happens is, is that the text, the solution that your brand new guy that picked up the desire chip, the solution that

heard in the meeting was not the same solution that the early guys got. It was it had it had no intensity to it. It had no teeth to it. It had no guys. We spent years making the big book as subjective as we could make it. Well, you know, the big book means anything I want it to mean.

But we hear this in our meetings, don't we? We run through this kind of stuff. We, we, we, our, our goal is we don't want a rigid book. We want to make it subjective so that we can move it around kind of like our constitution.

Come on, quit that. We did it to that other book too, the big, big book. We did exactly that same kind of thing. It's just subjective. It means what I think it means. No, it doesn't. And the moment we get people pulled back in track, we start seeing people get sober. And that's the cool part of the thing like this. We took a We took a ferocious, ferocious program that got lots and lots of people sober and turned it into some kind of domesticated wussy program where nobody was getting sober worldwide.

I hate a wussy program. Come on now. Let's see,

I think that answered that. I hope it did like that. Are we ready to eat some stuff, you think?

We could even we could even mill around for and I could stretch like this. If y'all ever seen one of these up close, let me.

I know he goes. It had. There had to be a penis joke. There just had to be a penis joke. Yes, Sir,

my name is Randy. I'm an alcoholic. Hey, Randy, He said something about

my experience has been that the text the meaning of the text has grown and changed as my sobriety has changed. When you said to the effect what I heard, which could be delusional is, you know, what does it mean to you today for me, what what it meant to me when I first came in is so far from what it means today. I believe that as we grow, our understanding of the text grow. So when I say,

because I've shared in me and I said whatever it means to you today is fine. They said that it's, you know, it's your interpretation of that book. The book remains the same, but I believe our interpretation or our understanding changes. I'm, I'm agreeing with 98% of what you just said, 2%. The 2% of it is that I'm not going to let a newcomer decide what's real and what's not real. I'm going to tell him I'm going in like that. But I understand exactly what you're saying. That's my experience too. As we get more mature in our, in our walk with this thing, as our, as our spiritual growth begins to

deepen and mature, then we began to see this thing in a light that we never saw before. But, but I'm not going to leave it to the new guy to, to, to flounder in his head trying to determine what he thinks it means. I'm going to help him understand going in. These are listen, let me give you an illustration. There was a guy, there was a guy in, in, in an old Home group. His game was old Tom and, and he was a guy that I really wanted to kill and bury out behind the building. He was just like, he just, he had no program, no nothing

sponsored anybody, never did anything. But he was that every discussion meeting, sharing stuff. And in the beginning it was novel and then it got really tedious listening to him like this. But in every meeting he did this. He said, well, you know, our program is, you know, we just sort of take what we want and we leave the rest. There are no musts in AA

in those days. I didn't know that there were musts in AA. I didn't know that there were, there were pages in there where there were four of them on one page telling us this kind of stuff. But he'd always make this big dramatic thing of taking this piece of paper and wadding it up and throwing it toward the trash can, which he never hit by the way. And, and I, I just like, you know, you just kind of like, why, why, why? It's just like, but it's that kind of thing. I, I think that's, that we have a responsibility as sober members of this deal who know and understand the text to help the new guy see and understand what the text means. Somebody,

he has to illuminate it. Somebody has to help him understand. If they, and most of the time these guys get it, I'm going to give them a great deal of credit because most of the time they understand. What happens is, is that when they don't understand and they start sharing stuff and goofy guy you're sponsoring, you start sharing something clowny weird thing in a meeting like this. What what bothers me is that so many of us allow it to happen. We just look the other way and goes well, he's young, he'll learn.

He'll learn in about 3 seconds because I'm he and me are going to be out behind the building and I'm going to go slick. What the heck were you talking about in there?

Talking about life and death. This is how we keep people on the page, saving lives instead of letting it trip off into the because let me tell you something right now. There was somebody sitting in that meeting that was brand new, that was hearing this guy share that goofy crap and, and, and this guy doesn't have a clue. You see what I'm saying? This is why we gets kind of, it always gets kind of personal. This is this is the part of sponsorship that I love the best. Making you squirm is what I love more than anything in the whole wide world,

Janine. Yep,

what happens if, like you were giving the example of somebody sharing and you know one of your guys sharing in a meeting something goofy and so you go to teach him. What happens if that happens in a meeting and you're not their sponsor? But but it's like, is it your responsibility as a member to make sure that they understand what they're saying? Or is it not your place or we are our brother's keeper? I'm not going to let I'm not going to do it right there. I'm not going. That's not my job right there to I'm listening, guys, don't get me wrong. I've never ever called somebody down in a meeting.

Not ever. And I've been in a jillion meetings with a jillion guys saying weird things. I've never done it. But after the meeting, if he's my guy,

I, he's my meat. We're dealing with it. But if he's somebody else's guy, I'm going to call that guy's sponsor real quick and I'm going to say, listen, let me mention something. This sounded really crazy what he said. And I think it gives the wrong impression. Could you talk to him about that? And he will. And if he doesn't, then I'll talk to him. But but this is but I do it lovingly. I just said, buddy, listen, I just, I just, I'm not sure if anybody taught you that or if this is just something you made-up. But this thing about the cat sacrifice that you mentioned in the meeting, we just,