Steps 8 and 9 at a sponsorship and 12 Step workshop in Dallas, TX

All right, let's talk about amends for a minute.

We're all powered up a little bit. We're all powered up. All right, so we're back on 76. Hello. Are you all ready? OK. All right,

So we're back on 76. We're talking about wrapping up that

walking out of a seven step, walking out of six and seven, looking at making a list, which means, like Michael said, I didn't burn my inventory, that I'm actually going to be pulling names off that list to make this eight step list. And then I'm additionally going to be adding to it because I got to tell you they're not everybody that I owed a men's to made my inventory. A large portion of them did not, but I'd certainly harm them and certainly owed them an amends. And so

we're going to be pulling the names off of our four step inventory, but then we're going to be adding to the people didn't necessarily make that inventory. So it goes on to talk about faith without works is dead. I mean, it's like as soon as you get done doing something, they're going to tell you one more time. Now we need more action, not catching a break. I'm constantly in movement. And the reason for that is

we talked about earlier that there's a short window of opportunity to get this work done before the willingness begins to wane and suddenly it's not so important and it wasn't so bad. If I get rolling through this work, there's a spiritual momentum that will pick up. And as each step builds on the other and more and more gets cleared out and more powers flowing in, more action is taken, the effect is greater. But when I begin to space these things out like we talked about earlier

and sort of diminish what this is, you won't get the effect necessary. So I'm moving through this quickly and these are building 1 after another. So I'm walking out of this, making the list.

It says we may have. We have a list of all persons we've harmed into whom we're willing to make amends. We made it when we took inventory. We subjected ourselves to drastic self appraisal. When do I make amends? Now we go out to our fellows and repair the damage done in the past. So as soon as pins hitting paper and I've gotten with a sponsor and outline what these amends are going to look like, because let me tell you,

don't just start running out. You've got the list. Sit down with somebody, sit down with your sponsor and talk about these amends and what you're going to be doing. Because sometimes the the tendency is I'm just going to get rolling. So I'm just going to run out and make them get a sponsor between you and the general public before you just go postal on people, right? I need to get clear on some things. And guys, there's motives behind some of the amends we want to make first. And I'm going to have to get clear on that stuff. And so often times I can't see it and I need somebody there to point out

what it is that we're doing and why we're doing it in order and so on and so forth. So it says, now we go out to our fellows and repair the damage. We attempt to sweep away the debris which is accumulated out of our effort to live on self will and run the show ourselves. So this is not about sometimes when you bring up immense people think, Oh yes, I need to apologize to people for all the things I said and did when I was drunk. Yes, but not necessarily in and of itself. It says

out of the debris of which that accumulated, out of self will and running the show myself.

That's different than what happened when I was drunk. This is a broad spectrum. Me running on me has caused lots of problems. The bourbon caused some, sure, but the vast majority of it is just me running on me. So I've got to see what this stuff looks like. It says if we haven't the will to do us, we ask until it comes. There's your eight step prayer because I don't know, maybe you guys were willing right off the bat to do everything.

I had a couple that I thought, oof, I don't know about that. We ask until it comes. They wouldn't have put that there if they didn't get results from that. So those amends that you think, God, I sure don't want to do that. I don't know if I'm willing. OK, then get into prayer about that. Ask for that willingness. Remember it was agreed at the beginning we would go to any links for victory over alcohol. Love how they slide that right in there after you go, I don't know if I'm willing, They're going to bring you back to that .1 more time. What links were you willing to go to to get alcohol?

What were you willing to do?

All of a sudden I'm faced with I need to get in front of people and square some things and be a real live adult. And now I don't know if I've got the time. I don't know if I'm willing to travel. I don't know if I can work it into. Did you ever do that with drinking? I never said, you know, I'm not really certain I have the time for that. I'm not really certain I can go that far to get a drink. I'm not really certain I can. That was never a question in my mind. It needed to happen, therefore it was going to happen. And if I can approach amends with that mentality of this is what I'm willing to do and I've got to do this,

my life depends on it, the results will be different. But when I begin to make excuses for myself, and God forbid I have people in my life that are willing to justify that nonsense, I'll be in trouble. I'll be in trouble. So it says I'm willing to go to remember, it was agreed I would go to any links. And sometimes you have to ask yourself that, what links did you go to to get the alcohol? So they're going to set us up a couple different ways. They're going to give us a couple of qualifications for making an amends.

They're going to give us some different scenarios. They're they're going to talk about money, they're going to talk about criminal offenses, they're going to talk about infidelity. They're going to talk about circumstances for other people are involved. The point is I need to be willing. That's the main driving point is that I need to be willing to take whatever action is necessary. And sometimes no action is what needs to happen. But I've got to get with a sponsor who understands this. And if my sponsor hasn't had that particular experience, I'm going to hope that they'll direct me to

that has, you know, 'cause I've, I certainly haven't had every single circumstance happen to me. But if I haven't, my sponsor has or her sponsor has, and we're going to get with somebody who understands and has been through that process. Does that make sense? Don't guess. If you're a sponsor taking somebody through this work, don't guess at what somebody should do. Have the humility to say, you know what? I'm not sure about that, but I'm going to find an answer for you.

It's the hardest thing for a drunk to say. You know what I don't know?

God forbid we admit we don't know something we're going to ask.

You're only dealing with somebody's life in your hands.

Ask if you don't know. All right on 77. It says our real purpose is to fit ourselves to be a maximum service to God in the people about me or people about us. It's it's fairly difficult to be a maximum service to God and the people around me when I'm carrying around all the baggage, all the drama of my past, because that in and of itself limits me. I can't go certain places. I can't do certain things. I can't be around certain people when I'm ducking and dodging and I'm carrying all that baggage. You guys know what that was like in the

if you're drinking, what did it look like? I can't go to this place because I've gone off on this person. I can't go over here because these people know what I've done and I hadn't paid them back and I can't go over. See how that works? My life gets real narrow and it begins to crowd in on myself. So now they're talking about my real purpose is that I'm going to be a maximum service. Why can't do that until I start sweeping away some of this debris and I can start getting free of that stuff

Because I sure don't want to live a life where I'm having to hide

again all over. So it's important for me to understand what it is that I'm driving at. It talks about approaching people that still smart from our injustice and going in and announcing that we've gone religious or that we've that we found a spiritual mode of living. It says that it's seldom wise to approach somebody who's still smarts from our injustice. And so think about that, what that can look like in an instance where somebody still burning, still seething about the actions that you've taken.

And then you want to run right up in the middle of it and say, but the good news is I found God. I found a spiritual mode of living. You know that. Think about that. Think about that approach and what that would be like. No, it says in the prize ring, this would be called leading with the chin. Why lay ourselves open to be branded fanatics or religious bores? We may kill a future opportunity to carry a beneficial message. Now, it's not saying never talk about God. It's not saying don't talk about the spiritual way of living. It's saying use

common sense and what this can look like. There's, there's going to be times where people will ask you all kinds of questions about the steps. They're going to be interested. They're going to want to know how cool or there's an opportunity for you to carry that message. But when you've stolen $3000 worth of stuff 3 weeks ago, you've gone through the work and you run up and go, I found God, isn't it great? No, they need the stuff or they need the stuff to replace the stuff that you stolen. See how that works?

I'm going to have to understand what it is that I'm doing, it says. But our man is sure to be impressed with the sincere desire to set right the wrong.

My goodness, there's qualifications here. A sincere desire to set right the wrong. Where did I get that sincere desire? I better have had a sponsor that rubbed my nose in that 4th column and showed me the truth, which is my problems are in my own making and if I didn't, I'm not going to have a sincere desire. I won't have admitted that those things are objectionable. But if I have that sincere desire, that's the first qualification. Think about that for a second. Have you ever seen kids

in like a sandbox that don't play well with others?

They're stealing each other's little scooping toys and the buckets and one of them gets in trouble for Mama and gets a spanking and told you better go apologize to that other little kid. Go say you're sorry. The kid is not sorry, but he stomps over there and goes sorry. Does that solve anything? Did those kids get along? No, that's insincerity. I don't make amends because my sponsor said so. I I made amends because I saw that I was wrong. I saw my mistakes and now I have the willingness to do this

not because somebody said, Audrey, you better go say you're sorry. That girl right now. It's not what this is. It's not it's not about saying you're sorry anyway. But it says he's going to be more interested in a demonstration of goodwill than in our talk of spiritual discoveries is how long have we been saying I'm so sorry? And did we mean it? Sometimes? Yes, But I couldn't stop doing those things.

I have no credibility with these people, and yet I'm going to go go to them and tell them it's going to be different this time. I promise. How many times have they heard that it's different this time? Let me tell you why. Because I feel different. That's my favorite one. It's really different this time because I feel different. Well, no, it's different. When you behave differently, that's when you get the results from those people

when that's what they're looking for is for me to to show up differently

is I couldn't do that in and of myself. And the amends really is about doing it different restitution, right? But sometimes when we talk about immense, we talk about it like it's just the conversation. It's just when I sat down, I wronged Michael. I sat down with Michael, told him I was wrong, told him it was going to be different. And now I've made amends to him and I'm done. No, that was the approach. That was the conversation. The amends is when I stopped doing to him whatever it was I was

doing, or I start doing whatever it is that he asked me to do that I didn't do before. Does that make sense? It's about it being different. So you got to understand that sometimes it's like, oh, I made amends to him. Check, done. No, how I show up is the amends. That was just the conversation. So the first qualification is that I have a sincere desire to set right and wrong. OK. Now it says we don't use this as an excuse for shying away from the subject of God when it will serve good purpose. We're willing to announce our convictions with tact.

This is one of my favorites. The question of how to approach the man we hated will arise. It absolutely will arise. And it's going to tell me what I should do. And maybe he's done us more harm than we've done him. And though we may have acquired a better attitude toward him, we're still not too keen about admitting our faults. Love that ego to just spring up. Does anybody else keep tally marks or do percentages in your mind? I'm 47% to blame. You're 53, so I'm just, I don't know if I can make amends to you.

But remember in when we sat down to do the 5th step, we set aside all that they had done and we looked for our own mistakes

that other stuff didn't matter. Although sometimes we sponsor people that want to go on and on and justify and know what are your mistakes. And when I can set that stuff aside and amends and walk into it with a

desire to set it right no matter what, the results are absolutely, absolutely amazing. But it says, nevertheless, I love this direction. Nevertheless with the person we dislike, we take the bit in our teeth like that horse. Ever seen a horse has a bit grind their teeth?

You take the bit in your teeth, which means shut up, right about anything that they've ever done wrong, and it's going to go on to talk about criticizing them and bringing up their faults. I don't do that.

Now, do I sometimes want to? Yeah. I'm still human, but I'm going to take the bit in my teeth and keep my mouth closed on all of that. Only thing I'm going to discuss is my wrongs, my fault, Right? It's harder to go to an enemy than to a friend, but we find it much more beneficial to us. Get in front of those people that you can't stand, the ones that you said that you'd never make amends to.

The freedom is exponential compared to what it's like when you get in front of somebody who goes, Oh, it's no worries. I totally have forgotten that even happened.

Those aside get in front of somebody who's upset who that you've terribly harmed and watched the freedom that comes from admitting your your faults and not discussing at all the things that they have done. Whereas before it sounded like what Michael talked about earlier. If you hadna I wouldn't and it becomes like a process group. We want to discuss. Well, when you say I feel and then you do and I,

Oh my God, no. What are the facts? This is another place. Amends is another place where the facts are essential.

All the other stuff,

leave it. What are the facts? I was wrong in the following ways. Those are the actual facts. So here's the 2nd qualification. We go to him in a helpful and forgiving spirit, confessing our former ill feeling and expressing our regret. It's a great word to throw in there. My regret, not I'm sorry, but I regret treating you the way that I've treated you. That's very different than the way that I've always. Well, I can't really say I've apologized in my past.

I have. If I thought that it would make things go away,

I thought I could smooth something over with an I'm sorry, then I might have done that. But to say I regret doing what I'm doing and these are the things that I've done, it's very different. It's very different to watch, to watch what happens and it's going to go on and just give us a straightforward direction about what to say and what not to say. Under no condition do we criticize such a person or argue that. Do you think that's going to be tempting from time to time?

Yeah, yeah. Imagine being in a conversation

you're making an amends for, let's say these areas over here, and they say something in the details of what they remember is just a little bit different than what you remember. And all the sudden you need to set them straight. You need to clarify,

Oh my God, don't do that. You'll end up making amends for the amend. And if somebody who's done that, there's no fun. Well, actually, I remember it more a little bit like this. And if you hadn't said I wouldn't have getting to go back and make that round two amend on that when I could have just kept my mouth shut and followed the directions from the big book like it asked me to do

initially.

So simply, we tell them we will never get over drinking until we've done our utmost to straighten out the past because that's what I'm there for. I'm being driven by this truth that if I don't get free and clear by admitting my wrongs honestly and attempting to sweep up my side of the street with 0 regard to what you do, your reaction, what you've done in the past, I will never get over drinking. And that's the truth. That's the reality. This isn't about I need you to like me again.

I'm. I'm worried Michael and I aren't going to be buddies because I've said something and now he's mad at me, so I need to go clean it up. So when we see each other at the Home group, it's not weird, but you see people do that. Do you see how that's different? That's a motive. That's about I don't want to be uncomfortable because he's mad at me. I don't want him to say something about me. No, I did something wrong. That's why I get in front of him for no other reason. We're there to sweep off our side of the street, realizing nothing worthwhile can be accomplished until we do so. Never

trying to tell him what he should do. Sometimes we read this book and we don't really look at the words and the verbiage that they've chosen to use is so important. Never because what my mind says is, but you don't understand this person. You don't know really about this circumstance. And all of a sudden the little nuances become important to me. They're not. Never under any circumstance do I criticize you. Are you or tell you what you should do.

My God, I'm I've just joined a 12 step fellowship. I'm attempting to sweep up all the drama from my past and suddenly I'm going to tell you what you should do.

I mean, when you look at it like that, it's like, wow, the absolute arrogance and ridiculousness of that. It's kind of like when we get on a spiritual mode of living and our family's been on a spiritual mode of living, like, I don't know their whole life and we're going to tell them how to get spiritual. The same concept

outside looking in. Wow. His faults are not discussed. We stick to our own. I mean, how many times can they say that same thing over and over? If our manner is calm, frank and open, we'll be gratified with the result. That's probably one of my favorite promises from from the Amends

because it's not specific to a reaction or a result. And my mind is always one track of I need this result, this reaction, this experience. And what the amends is allowing me to do is set aside what I think should happen,

admit my wrongs honestly and let the chips fall where they may. I don't need Michael to forgive me. I don't need him to be OK with me again. See how that works? Whereas before, wasn't that your driving motivation number one, of why you were there in the 1st place. And two, you weren't happy unless you got the results you needed. Now what this book is saying is I can be gratified with the result no matter what it is.

Which means if he stays upset with me, bless him, that's on him.

I can be gratified if the big ol if I'm calm, frank and open, which is very different than the way we we interact with people prior to getting sober. Calm Franken up. We're usually hysterical, dishonest and sort of shady. I ain't throwing bits and pieces of stuff in there. This. This is direction to give people that you sponsor. And it's so clear and precise. It doesn't get any more simple than that. We could talk for hours about a men's. We really could because there's lots of experience here. There's lots of

direction. There's lots of four instances. If this happens, do this. The truth is this, if I'm willing to get in front of people, I've sought direction from a sponsor, I'm crystal clear on what I'm doing there. God will show up. God will give me the words and I will get free. That's the truth. That's the truth. But what happens is fear settles in and I'm wondering how is this going to pan out? Doesn't matter,

but you won't know that until you do it, and the people that you sponsor will will possibly question it until they do it. Then they have the experience of showing up prior to doing this stuff.

These steps and these principles, most of us, if we were afraid to do something, we didn't do it. Or if we were uncomfortable with it, we didn't attempt it. We couldn't understand it and make it logically line up. We didn't participate. And in sobriety, what they're asking us to do is take the action anyway,

whether you understand it, whether you agree with it,

whether it feels right. I'm going to take the action and leave the results up to God. It doesn't say that I have to not be in fear. There's lots of things that we do, like making some of these, these amends that we've been frightened to do. There's lots of things that we do, and then we leave the results up to God. It doesn't matter how it pans out. I remember hearing that in sobriety and thinking, Lord, you clearly don't have to make some of the amends that I have to make until you have the experience with God. In nine cases out of 10, the unexpected happens. And then it goes on to talk about

Sometimes your former enemies will praise you and wish you well,

but it should not matter. However, someone does throw us out of his office. We've made our demonstration, done our part. It's water over the dam. See how that works? It didn't matter if he stopped me in the middle of the amends and said, you know what, no, that's enough. I leave because that that will happen. Sometimes those experiences do take place where somebody allows you to come in and then stops you and says, you know what, I'm not interested. Or they won't return any of your phone calls when you're attempting to call and set up an appointment

amends with them. But what the literature is saying is I have to have the willingness to do it. Me staying sober is not contingent upon you accepting my amends or you meeting with me. Makes sense. A lot of times people are afraid of that. How can I get sober if people won't see me? No means not now. Sometimes it means it will be later. You know, there's people that they don't want to hear your amends right now, but if you give them time, they may. But it doesn't matter. I've done my demonstration. Water over the dam if

willing to show up and attempt it. There's lots of people I've contacted and you know it. Not always go my way but I got free anyways. Most Alcoholics owe money. Is that the truth? Anybody not owe money?

I always like to pull and look for the one person who's like, I don't know any money. We don't dodge our creditors.

This idea of not living a double life has has got to continue on past the 5th step. It's got to continue on in the way that I live and show up. Me hiding from people that I owe money from creates more fear, which causes me to rely more on myself, which creates more fear. And it's this vicious cycle of me hiding in sobriety, which means that when the creditor calls, I need to answer the phone. I need to attempt to set up a payment plan. I need to be honest about who I am, what's been going on and what my intentions are.

I love to tell somebody that that owes money to creditors and their eyes get about like this big.

Surely you don't mean that. Surely you don't mean that I need to pay people back for things that I've taken. Surely I don't go to the department store and set up a payment plan. Yes, I surely do mean that. I surely do. Is what it says is I'm arranging the best deal we can. We let these people know we're sorry our drinking's made us slow to pay. We must lose our fear of creditors no matter how far we have to go for reliable to drink if we're afraid to face them. Sometimes the tendency is I owe you $15,000. I want to wait until I've got $15,000 to give you,

throw it on the table and then we'll square it. But it says arranging the best deal we can, which means if I've got $20 a week I can pay you. Then I need to show up with some money in hand to give you, arrange the best deal that we can and see what's acceptable to you. Is it possible I can pay you $20 a week or $50.00 a month or whatever it is that you can work out

until this debt is paid off? Is that acceptable to you? I'm not going to go in and tell you what the plan is like we've been doing.

Here's what I've decided. So you need to get on board with this now. Here's what I owe you. Here's the estimation as I see it. I've been drunk for a while, so I might be missing something, but here's the estimation as I see it. Here's what I can do. Is that acceptable to you? If it's not, I'm going to figure something else out. It's going to have to be on their terms, arranging the best deal we can. Then it talks about a criminal offense. Surely no one in here is committed a criminal offence,

right? What do we do

on 79? It says although these reparations take innumerable forms, there are some general principles with which we find our guiding. So does it matter what it is? If it's finances, criminal offense? There's your first nine step prayer. Reminding ourselves we decided to go to any links to find a spiritual experience. How many times they are remind us of that? How many times? Well, because how many times are we trying to back up, trying to balk on this? We ask that we be given strength and direction to do the right thing, no matter what the personal consequences may be.

And some of us are going to have this. Some of us are going to have things that we've got to bring to light and accept whatever, whatever the outcome, the whatever the personal consequence. We may lose our position or reputation or face jail, but we are willing. We have to be. We must not shrink at anything. Other people can get away with not doing this. Real alcoholic absolutely can't. Absolutely. I can't get away with shrinking at some of the stuff. There are things in my past that I had to bring to light and say what needs to be done about this? Was I afraid? Absolutely.

But was I more afraid I would drink again? Yeah. Yeah. And then it's worth it. And if you know anything about Doctor Bob's story, you know this is where he went. Anything but that. I'm willing to do this right up into the point that you asked me to make amends to people and admit my alcoholism.

Not willing to do that. Didn't want to compromise his career, didn't want to compromise his family, his reputation. Reputation seems to be a big one. How people view me, what they think of me, I don't want to admit

right. Unwilling, unwilling, unwilling. Right up into the point where he drank again, went back out, got real busy making amends. Alcohol is the great persuader. Like we talked about earlier, I will never beat you into a state of reasonableness that gives you the willingness to go out and get in front of people and make right your wrongs. I'm just not that powerful, nor do I have that kind of time. I will never be able to do that.

Alcohol is the great persuader. If you're done, you get real willing real quick. And if not, I get into prayer

all right, and it talks about what to do when other people are involved. So it says we need not be the hasty and foolish martyr who would needlessly sacrifice others to save himself from the alcoholic pit. So what do we do when other people are involved?

All kinds of for instances on that. But I don't get to throw you under the bus to save me, which is how I operated before. It didn't matter if you got harmed. I needed to get the results I needed to get, so I was willing to throw you out there. Now that I'm sober and trying to live on a spiritual basis, I don't do that. If there's something that's happened between a group of us and I need to set it straight with somebody else, I don't get to talk about all all those people in the group, throw them out there. I get to go and admit my wrongs. See how that works?

It talks about a story of a guy who didn't pay alimony to his first wife.

Now, he could have just gone to jail and set it out. Isn't that what some of us like to let me just sit it out? But then what? Then he's not paying for his current family. He's not giving them the finances that they need, and he's not paying her back for what he owed her. So wouldn't that have been silly, foolish martyr to just, I'll just sit it out. So what needs to happen? And this is where sponsorship gets so important because sometimes guys, we think we know.

We think we know and we want to use things like logic,

and I can get with that, but we're attempting to live in the fourth dimension where some things don't apply. Third dimension is what makes sense. What's obvious. 4th dimension is what's God asking me to do? Am I awake to this stuff? And since I'm new and I don't know, I need to be asking my sponsor for some suggestions for some guidelines from some of her experience and the experience of her sponsor, right?

All right, flip over to 80.

So what I do when I've got other people that are involved, it says if we have obtained permission, permission from who? The other people that are involved have consulted with others, ask God to help in the drastic step is indicated. We must not shrink

one more time. They're telling me I've got to be willing to do whatever is necessary. But I better have gone through some checkpoints before this has happened. Amends is not something to be kind of Willy nilly about. It's has the propensity to harm other people, right? And that's kind of how the step reads, is it not? I'm willing to make amends unless I'm going to be harmed. No others will be harmed. I hear that all the time.

This girl used to work with used to say, but I'm an other. And I thought, no, you're a self. You're not an other, you're a self. No, if I didn't make amends because it would harm me, I wouldn't make any amends because it'd be just embarrassing.

I'm not an others, I'm a self, but I need to obtain the permission of the people that it has the propensity to affect. OK, there's my sponsor tells the story about an amends that she absolutely needed to make, but her daughter said please don't, please don't because it was going to affect her. You know what she did? She didn't get to make that amends. She held herself in readiness until her daughter said, I give you the go ahead, make that amends. But I have to consider the people that are around me, which is not something that we've been doing

or I wasn't. Anyway. At the bottom of page 80, it talks about domestic troubles. Anybody have any of those?

I mean, here's the thing, If you don't have some of the stuff that's going on, you will sponsor people that do. So you need to get clear on what to do with this stuff. Don't ask the questions. Don't wait until it comes up. Ask. What do you do with this stuff? Maybe you've never been in a relationship. You don't know what infidelity looks like or what to do, what not to do, what to say, how to ask. Ask. Don't be too arrogant to ask.

Middle of page 81 it says whatever the situation, we usually have to do something about it.

If our sure, if we are sure our wife does not know, should we tell her? Not always we think

now this is where it can get dicey and you know, specifics and details and things like that. And again, This is why I bring my sponsor into the picture and lay it out and say, should I or should I not? And there's so many people in our fellowship that have this experience of when I was getting loaded, I was stepping out on my significant other. They have no idea or they have a general idea. What do you say? What do you not say? And so they're going to, they're going to throw down some principles that says if she knows in a general way what? That we have been wild

general. Yeah. And in a general way that we've been wild. Should we tell her in detail? Undoubtedly we should admit our fault. She may insist on knowing all the particulars. Let me say she will insist on knowing all the particulars. She'll want to know who the woman is and where she is. That's the truth. We feel we ought to say to her that we have no right to involve another person

because do you see how that works? Somebody else is involved. I don't get to throw him under the bus. He's over there and that's where he works. No, no, I don't get to do that

if he knows. I mean, this is just a, for instance, I'm not married, but if I'm stepping out on my husband and he knows in a general way, I know you, you've been doing some things, I'm going to admit my fault, but I'm not going to go into details and start naming. Here's the list, here's the master list. Here's their addresses, phone numbers, their spouses. See how I've involved people that don't need to be involved. I've already harmed him.

I'm not going to start harming all these people and their families. I don't get to do that if he doesn't know at all.

There are various circumstances where that happened. I don't have that experience, obviously, because I'm not married, but I know that women who have stepped down on their husbands stepped out. Is that an old timey term? I feel like it is. Is it? I just heard myself say it and went, am I so old? I'm so old. Stepping out. All right, cheated. Sorry. Let me bring it up to 2011 cheaters. Does anybody watch that show? It's so crazy. Anyway,

if I've committed infidelity, right,

he doesn't know. Should I tell him? Not always. We think there are a lot of women that I've heard their experiences on this and they are the ones that should he ask, should that be brought to life? They hold themselves in complete willingness to admit their fault. And until that happens, they shoulder that burden, right? And often times when we get sober, we just want to spill everything about everything and just get clean, free and clear of all of it. But what I have to look at is motive.

Is this individual going to be helped? Is he going to be enriched because I threw it all up on him?

Now I certainly feel better because I clean, I cleared it on my chest and my conscience. But have I now harmed him further? Possibly, yes. So I'm, I'm not, I'm not going to, you know, the big books as though there may be justifiable exceptions. And though we wish to lay down no rule of any sort, we have often found this is the best course to take. So they're not going to lay down a hard and fast rule. And I'm not going to let throw out an absolute to you guys,

but you've got to think about further harm

and continuing to harm the people around you throwing other people under the bus. Sometimes we want to admit all kinds of stuff that don't necessarily need to need to be brought to light. So you need to get clear on that with your sponsor because sometimes there are exceptions,

but the general principle says I've got to be hard on me and considerate of you. And sometimes that means I harbor stuff and I'm somebody that has had to do that. There's lots of things that I would love to admit, but I'm not going to because it it continues to harm the people around me. Right. All right. So on 82 it talks about where the utmost frankness may be demanded. No outsider can appraise such an intimate situation. That third night step prayer says each might pray about it having the other

happiness uppermost in mind. That's a different way to pray, isn't it? Usually I'm, I'm praying for a result. I'm praying for my way to pan out. Now they're talking about I'm praying that your happiness be uppermost in mind, that I can put your needs first before my own and think of you. Keep it always. Insight that we're dealing with that most terrible human emotion, jealousy, and in that the truth.

I've got to understand that that's what I'm working with so that I'm not continuing to step on toes. And it goes on to to discuss what happens in the home. If we have no such complication, there's plenty we should be doing at home. How do I bring these principles into my family, into the people that I'm interacting with on a consistent basis? It's funny how easy it is to practice principles with somebody you see three hours a week

at a couple meetings and then you go home and treat your family however you want to treat them.

And it goes into great detail about

me not drinking is not repayment for the damage that I've caused to my family. It's just not. Sometimes we delude ourselves into believing that I've been sober for a while. So we're square. No, because alcohol was never the problem. Remember, it was my selfishness and my inconsideration of you that was the problem. And so it's got to be different in the homes. It says certainly I must keep sober for them. We know home if I don't, but I'm a long way for making good to the wife or parents

for years whom I so shockingly treated. Think about those words. I remember Melanie talking about this one night at the group and she talked about the word shockingly treated, how it really just caught her attention. It's not that we're just sometimes don't think of others shockingly treated. Look back on your experience. Look back on your inventory. Would you have tolerated that from other people? I sure wouldn't have. I wouldn't have put up with me for 1/4 of what my family has. I'm a long way from making good,

but sometimes we're sober three months and we're like, what's your problem?

I've been not drinking. Hello, Let's all get happy and get on the same page. No, 'cause that's not the problem. They're still waiting. They're still waiting.

Talks about that alcoholic is like a tornado roaring, roaring his way through the lives of others. Hearts are broken, sweet relationships are dead. Affections have been uprooted. Selfish and inconsiderate habits have kept the home in turmoil. And think about that on your past experience or even current experience and sobriety. If this is what it looks like, the tornado that has no rhyme or reason. Show up when we want to leave, when we want to destroy what we want. Leave this stuff alone and don't touch it. I mean, there's no logic when you look at a tornado

destruction. And is there any logic to what it is that we're doing?

No, but after the damage dies down, after the wind stops blowing, I want to come up on the scene and go. What's y'all's deal?

I haven't gotten arrested in a while.

I hadn't showed up loaded to a family function. So God, what's up?