Steps 8 and 9 at the first annual Stay Sober for Keeps workshop in Laguna Niguel, CA

All right, so we're just about to roll into step 8:00 and 9:00.

So we're back on page 76. We just wrapped up step 7 talking about an 8 step amends list. So in the middle of page 76 it says now we need more action. Isn't that just the resounding Kong that I hear after consistently? Just when I think I've done something, it's like, OK, moving on. So it says without which we find that faith without works is dead. And I tell you what, that's a theme that's all throughout this literature that faith without works is dead. I can believe, believe, believe all day long, but

I'm willing to put action behind my belief system. It really doesn't amount to anything. So we're going to find that that that's repeated over and over. It says, let's look at steps 8:00 and 9:00.

We have a list of all persons we've harmed and to whom we are willing to make amends. We made it when we took inventory. So what we're looking at on an 8 step list is, is who am I who is necessary for me to go out and get in front of face to face and make direct amends with. Now all those people on my on my inventory that I saw that I harmed, I most certainly owe a men's to. But there's also an additional names that need to be added to that list because not everybody that I've harmed, I've been upset with.

Not everybody made it to inventory. There was a whole host of people that I had had terribly harmed that there was no resentment in connection with it. And so at this point, all I'm doing is making the list. It's an easy place to kind of get hung up and and overwhelmed and get real scared about, Oh my God, the huge list. All you're doing at this point is making the list. The 8th step is not the ninth step. I'm making a willing list. And then my mind begins to talk to me about certain things such as, well, I don't even know his last name.

I don't even know which state she lives in. I doubt my path will ever cross with that person again. Do not be fooled about the power of God. Don't. Don't shortchange yourself in that area. Your job at this point is to put the name on the list. Period. That's it. There's nothing else required of you at that point. I've got to put the name on the list. Be willing to get in front of them, right? There are some people that it was not pertinent for me to make amends to them at that time

and I had to get with a sponsor and look at that stuff. And we're going to delve into when is it not appropriate to make an amends to somebody? And there are a few cases where it's not, but I still have those people. They are still on my eight step list. And should God make that appropriate, I'm, I hold myself in readiness to make the amends. So now is not the time to be running all these things through your brain. It's just a time to place those names down on paper. So it says we subjected ourselves to drastic self appraisal. Now we go out to our fellows and repair the

image done in the past. We attempt to sweep away the debris which is accumulated out of our effort to live on self will and run the show ourselves. If we haven't the will to do this, we ask until it comes. And there's your eight step prayer. If there are people that you know what I am not willing to get in front of that person to make amends, start praying now. Get into prayer now that God change your heart and give you the willingness to do so 'cause you know there it's not always right off the bat that you're willing to make amends to everybody.

OK, well do we just stop short? No. What can we do with it? Where can God guide me with this?

So I'm again to say those prayers and ask for the willingness. Then it's going to give me something that might shift my gears. It says, remember, it was agreed at the beginning we would go to any links for victory over alcohol. I have friends that that ask their protegees to write in the in the front of their big book on day one. I'm willing to go to any links for victory over alcohol. And when they start balking, they get to go back and look where they signed and dated that they were willing to go to any length. I think that's a riot. I love it. And the question then becomes, what links to did you go to for alcohol?

Really. I mean, I'm on snow days. They've shut down the town on snow days. I'm skidding across in my truck trying to get to the liquor store. Willing to go to any links. Now. I don't want to go make amends because it's raining outside, thinking I could slack a fishtail. Nobody in Texas knows how to drive in the rain. Everyone knows that, right? Really. Are you willing to go to any links or are you not? When I'm trying to get liquor in this kids system, I'm knocking old ladies down. I'm running 100 miles an hour. Bless you if

my way, but then when I want to make amends, it's every excuse in the book. No, no. Do you want to get well or do you not? Do you? Did you read Doctor Bobby Nightmare or did you not? Where did he balk? Where did he pull up short? Amends willing? Do anything but have the humility to stand in front of another person and say, you know what? I was wrong

and what happened. He got loaded and after he got loaded, he got out in one day, made all of his amends. Nothing will beat you into a state of reasonleness like liquor. Nothing right? Do you want to be that guy or can you press on? So then it's going to begin to talk to me about

approaching people on a spiritual basis, why we should do that sometimes while we shouldn't do that other times.

He talks about not emphasizing the spiritual feature. Spiritual feature on our first approach with certain people.

At the moment we're trying to put our lives in order, but this is not an end in itself. Our real purpose is to fit ourselves to be a maximum service to God and the people about us. It's seldom wise to approach an individual who still smarts from our injustice to Him and announce we've gone religious. Let me set that little scenario up for you. After you tear somebody's life down around your alcoholism and your selfish and inconsiderate habits, 3 days later you've detox. Want to show up on their front doorstep and talk about how you found God?

No ma'am,

no, it starts like this. I was wrong. That's how that starts. Nobody cares that you found God. They want the money that you took back, right? They need to hear an explanation for what the things that you did and and apology of sorts. A promise not to do those things again. An in depth conversation. Not that you found God. Is it wonderful that you found God through the steps? Yes. Have tactic common sense when announcing those things

right when what talks about leading with the chin? I'm setting myself up. I can kill a future opportunity to be beneficial to somebody else. If if I can tone it down and approach it in a different way, it can be handled very differently. I it says why lay ourselves openly branded fanatics or religious bores? We may kill a future opportunity to carry a beneficial message.

See when this person that you that you've mishandled your amends with, it's time for them to get sober or it's time for somebody in their family to get sober. They're not going to look back on you showing up doing cartwheels on their front doorstep about finding God and thinking that's the person to call.

No, but when I can approach you in a calm directive, I'm working a spiritual program of action. Part of this program is that I make restoration to you for the harms that I've done. Something to that effect you, you can bet. Then go. You know, that girl was in sobriety. I don't remember what exactly she said she was doing, but she seemed like she was on a different path. Maybe I have to call her. There's a way to handle it in a way not to. There's a couple of qualifications for making amends

listed on page 77, and the first one is in that in that first paragraph.

But our man is sure to be impressed with a sincere desire to set right the wrong. I don't know if you've ever been on the playground with toddlers. I used to work at a daycare, which was a riot. But have you ever seen a mom snatch a kid up and say you better say you're sorry and you watch that chunky, chunky little toddler step over and go sorry to the other little kid, right? That is not a sincere desire to set right or wrong. I don't make amends because Julie says so.

Get clear on that. I hear that all the time. I made a mince because my sponsor said I had to. Really.

Is that a sincere desire? Is that what the other person receiving that amend needed to hear? No, it's my sponsor's job to rub my little nose in the fourth column. That's where the sincerity comes from. My Creator, me, seeing the truth about me and the damage I've caused. Now I'm willing. Now I want to clean it up because I see how wrong I was, but not because I've been made to.

I've been made to and I will forget that, you know, hearing a story about somebody that went to make amends to somebody. And, you know, here, here's the deal. And I, I know I have to make amends to you. Wow,

what a what a bad feeling to have to hear in a Mens like that. Don't do that. Don't do that says he's going to be more interested in a demonstration of goodwill than in our talk of spiritual discoveries. I've got to get crystal clear that at this point I don't have any credibility with people. So for me to continue to announce that I have found, you know, the good Lord above, you know, with 0 credibility 2 weeks ago, I'm robbing you.

You know what I mean? Let's see a demonstration of what you found right sleeping with your husband. That's a great one.

Let's see a demonstration of what it is you found. Because if you found something, you don't need to talk about it, do you? Now your actions

manifest and you know the the talks about earlier on in the book about a sponsor that his whole deportment. Think about that word. His whole deportment shouts at the new prospect He's a man or a woman with an answer. See, there's no need for me to be running my mouth because how long you been running that mouth?

For years. It usually sounds like this. I'm sorry, I'll never do it again.

That's one reason that me personally, this is an opinion. I don't say the words I'm sorry and amends just don't. I said it for too long. It sounds like this. I was wrong. That's something they've never heard before. I was wrong, right. The second question or qualifications a little ways down in that second paragraph it says we go to him that last line. We go to him in a helpful and forgiving spirit, confessing our former I'll filling and expressing our regret,

right? That's another thing I say when I'm making a mint. I regret treating you the way that I the way that I have. And no matter what he does or what he has done in the past, I go to him in a helpful and forgiving spirit because I don't get to continue to take his inventory, right? That's about me trying to get free. This is about me and my creator. It it never matters what he says or does or what she says or does. This is about can I lay my head down on the pillow, having demonstrated to my God that I was willing to go to any links

to clean up the past. You may roll your eyes, you may argue with me, you may not accept my amends. So not my business. So not. It's about me and God, period. And once you know that you can remove expectations, you can remove irritations about the way they behaved in it, right? You want to know what your motives are, start clocking the way they respond to your immense well, she didn't admit her fault, right? And what was your expectation that she would?

Did you need that

guess? So get with a sponsor on that. They can show you what your motives are. Sometimes it's best to wait a few days before you run out and make all of your amends. Sometimes we make them for the wrong reasons. The girls always want to make amends to the boyfriend right away. I need to get back in the bed, right? No, you don't calm down. And you think it's the guys, it's the women. We're a hot, hot mess. And then it talks about

the question, how to approach the man we hated will arise. Let me assure you that's going to arrive

because you may have gotten a better attitude through inventory, but you still remember, don't you? We don't forget it.

I still remember. And so it says directive. I love this. It may be that he's done us more harm than we've done him. And no, he may have acquired a better attitude. We're still not too keen about admitting our faults. Wow. Nevertheless, with a person we dislike, we take the bit in our teeth. That's a big old suck it up from the big book Alcoholics Anonymous. I love that it's harder to go to an enemy than to a friend, but we find it

circle those words much more beneficial

to us. Harder to go to an enemy than to a friend, but we find it much more beneficial.

See, that's the thing. I'm going to sit across from the man or woman that I absolutely can't stand and make amends. And I've done that with no expectation that they would do anything. Make amends back to me. Admit there none of that. I tell you what, that's some of the coolest experiences. You want to get free. Don't go to your Mama. She loves you. She doesn't say baby, I don't care. As long as you're sober, they don't care. Don't don't go to your spout. Go to the man you can't stand.

Go to the man that when you think you see his car 6 lanes away in traffic, you're like trying to pull the visor. You know

Hayden can't stand him. Go do that. Watch what happens. See, that's the problem. Everybody wants to do the real easy ones 1st. And you catch a little bump, little spiritual bump off of that. Then you quit and you've got all these hard ones, so to speak, lumen in the balance where the real freedom lies and you don't do them. And then you get drunk and go. But I don't understand. I made a whole bunch of amends. No, you didn't. You went to a whole bunch of people that you knew were happy with you

anyway.

Approach it differently and see if something doesn't happen. I mean, I've got to understand the point of amends is not to apologize, it's to make it right. That's what that word actually means. It means to make it right. So that's a question I'm going to ask you when I make amends to you. I'm going to tell you specifically I've been selfish, dishonest, and consider it with your feelings.

Whatever it was that I was wrong about. I'm going to tell you what that is. And let me tell you something guys, if you can't be big enough to say what you did, don't go. I don't know if you all ever had that experience. I know Julie and I specifically have somebody saying I owe you immense for what? Well, I was. I just selfish in general. Selfish How? What are you talking about? I just I just was. If you can't put on your big girl panties and say what you did, don't come. Don't, because now I'm wondering what you do

now. You owe me immense.

I'm still waiting to collect on that one. Me too. I know it right, but it means to make it right. So I'm going to ask you specifically, what can I do to make it right besides not doing dot dot dot whatever it was. You know, if I was dishonest with you or if I took something or what it was. Besides not doing this again, what else can I do to make it right and get clear with you? I'm telling you, you ask people what you can do to make it right. You'll have the funniest experiences. I remember my grandfather had a list.

I didn't even think I'd harmed him that badly. And he made a list.

You can do this, you can do this, you can do it. And I'm like, what?

All right, you're going to talk about living a men's. That's not you deciding that you're going to be a better person to make an amend. I terribly harm Julie. But instead of making it right and getting face to face and being a big girl about it, I just decided to be a better person and we're going to call it a living amend. No, ma'am, direct amends, face to face. Now, every day when I pay my bills on time, because that was on my list that my grandfather gave me, you can pay your bills on time. You can show up where you're supposed to be, show up early, get there right. Every time I show up early to a commitment, I'm making a living amend to him.

Every time I sign a check and pay a bill on time, that's a living amend to him. See how that works? See how the fellowship wants to make it about an easier, softer way. It's not. It's not. Take it in context for what it is. So continuing on with that, it says

this will, this will teach you some good stuff about what to do and what not to do. It says under no condition do we criticize such a person or argue. How easy do you think that would be to do? You just learned how to take inventory, right? Properly.

Right now it's real easy to spot them, their dishonesty, they're selfishness. You've been clocking them for years anyway, judging them. Now you just learned how to put it in a format. It's real easy to do it. Don't do it. You'll be making an amends for the amends. So simply tell him we will never get over drinking until we've done our utmost to straighten out the past. I hear that a lot. Can I go and make amends and not tell him I'm in recovery?

It's like, wow. Or do you want to continue to live that double life? Is that what we're doing now? You know,

I don't want anybody know I'm in sobriety. Oh my God, they already know.

Your trucks been parked next door for a long time. You can't seem to get it right. Your credit card statements read liquor store, liquor store, liquor store, bar. Everybody knows. I don't know if you guys know that everybody knows. And if they don't, by God, tell them. Tell them your life is not your own anymore. I can't tell you how many times I hear stories of people making amends and then three years later hearing from that person of you know what? My my daughter decided she needed to get sober. I remember you making that amends. Did you say

there was a group or a fellowship or something? What your life is not your own stuff. Hiding your alcoholism. There's no surefire way to get sick than to do that right there. Remember when you're drinking and your world got real narrow because you couldn't let anybody know who you really were?

That's the same concept. Don't close that door, since we're there to see. Sweep off our side of the street, realizing that nothing worthwhile can be accomplished until we do so. Never trying to tell him what he should do. His faults are not discussed. That's tough. Sometimes we stick to our own. If our manner is calm, frank, and open, we'll be gratified with the result. That is one of the coolest promises in amends. We'll be gratified with the result even if they don't receive it well, even if they're ugly about it. Even if they don't admit

you are OK, gratified with the results. All I have to be is calm, frank and open. But I'm never going to tell him what he should do. I'm never going to discuss his faults. And let me tell you, one of the toughest amends to make is to make an amends for the amends you messed up. I did do that with one of my sisters. It was really embarrassing, but it sounded a lot like a process group where I said when you said I felt and then I misunderstood. And then I did. But if you hadn't, I wouldn't have. I was like, Oh my God, Audrey,

what we're doing, it was a botched amends and I had to go back and go. You know what, Alex? I was totally having a process group with you that was so wrong. I was, I was wrong. Here's what I did. She said, yeah, you didn't even ask me what you could do to make it right.

That's when you know you've made too many amends to your family and they're like, you didn't even get the order right. That's bad. But it says in nine cases out of 10, the unexpected happens. Sometimes the man we're calling upon admits his own faults of fuse of your standing melt away in an hour.

I've had that experience. That's kind of neat. Says rarely do we fail to make satisfactory progress

and you don't get to judge what satisfactory progress looks like. See, I feel better. So therefore I want to think it's OK. Stop making judgments based on your emotions. It's not a good idea. It's really not. Feelings come and go. They're not a point to make decisions on. It says it should not matter. However, if someone does throw us out of his office, we've made our demonstration, done our part. It's water over the dam. That's another question we hear a lot of times. What if they won't accept my amends?

What if I get on the phone and try to schedule an appointment with them and they say absolutely not, I want nothing to do with you, Then you've made your demonstration. What you can do to make it right with them is leave them alone until they're ready. And it may be 5-10 years down the road. And they go, you run into them, they say, you know, kind of cut you short. And if there's something you want to say, I'm willing to hear it. That can happen. That's happened to friends of ours in Dallas. But for the time being, stop stalking them.

Stop sending 100 emails. Stop. You know they'll block their number and then call *67 it. Don't do that,

they said, leave them alone. They meant it. Leave them alone. There might be a time down the road, but really and truly it wasn't about the exchange between you guys anyway. It was about the exchange that you had with your creator. That's what that's about. So I got to see it for what it is. Water over the dam says most Alcoholics owe money. Like pause for effect. Never known one who who didn't owe something says we don't dodge our creditors. How many how many times you done that? You got that certain 866 number

voicemail. You know, I watch people do that. It's, it's, it's a hoot. I mean, if you're going to continue to hide and duck and dodge, get ready to drink. 100% never seen it fail. Telling them what we're trying to do. We make no bones about our drinking. They usually know it anyway. Who doesn't pay their bills? People like

they know they know there's a problem. They usually know it anyway, whether we think so or not. Nor are we afraid of disclosing our alcoholism on the theory it may cause financial harm.

That's what that's what Doctor Bob did. Approached in this way, the most ruthless creditor will sometimes surprise us, arranging the best deal we can. And that's what my directive is to do. We let these people know we're sorry our drinking is made a slow to pay. We must lose our fear of creditors, no matter how far we have to go, if we're liable to drink, if we're afraid to face them. If you're going to be in hiding, you're going to be with a bottle. Keep that in mind, no matter what the situation. I mean, let's say it while we're on it. If you're gay, be gay,

right? If you're in debt, be in debt, be in debt, but come out with it. You know what I'm saying? Like if if you have done some things in the past, let's talk about it. But if you continue to hide guys, you're going to hide with a bottle. I guarantee them. There's just a little opening. I went ahead and took for myself.

Sometimes it lays out that way, arranging the best deal we can. What does that look like? Bio Engine $500. What I want to do is wait till I have $500 and get in front of her so I can just hand it to her and run away,

right? Because that's kind of how we've interacted in the past. We don't want to handle stuff like that. Be a big kid. Get in front of Angie. Angie, I was wrong. I owed you $500.00 from six years ago. I've been ducking and dodging you. I was doing this and this. Get clear with her on what that was about. Make it right. Can I pay you $25 a week or a month until this is paid off? Is that acceptable to you? That works for Angie. We're going to roll with it. If it doesn't, I better find something else. I'm going to arrange the best deal I can. It doesn't mean that I'm going to try to

get Angie to come off the prize. Would you take 350?

I hear that all the time. Well, I got him to come down to God. Stop negotiating

y'all laugh. Start sponsoring. You're going to hear some fun stuff,

fun stuff. So I'm going to let these people know what what the deal is and, and see what I can do about it. I sponsor a woman that has had so much debt that she was overwhelmed initially. And I'm telling you, she's checking them off the list like nobody's business. Once you get rolling, you get rolling. If you need to seek some outside financial assistance to get with somebody on. What does a budget mean? What does it look like to pay stuff on? Go get it, Go get it. I mean, we get sober. We've got all kinds of resources at our disposal.

Go help yourself cool, learn how to do that stuff. And it's going to talk about criminal offenses

and, and, and not wanting to talk about that kind of stuff on 79, I'm going to show you something. It says although these reparations take innumerable forms, there's some general principles which we find guiding. Here's the deal. We've all got stuff in the past, whether it's money, whether it's sex, whether it's criminal offenses, whether it's, you know, cheating, who knows? I've got to get honest number one with a sponsor,

somebody's got to help me sift through and see what it is that I need to be doing about this. But we've got some general stuff. It says reminding ourselves, and this is your first nine step prayer, reminding ourselves that we have decided to go to any links underline to find a spiritual experience. We ask that we be given strength and direction to do the right thing, no matter what the personal consequences may be. That's it. You can apply that prayer to any situation and amends

any links to find a spiritual experience. I have to be willing.

That's what it's asking me. There are two themes that run throughout the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous. One of them is willingness and the other one's action. You know, sometimes the action doesn't need to be taken because it causes harm to who, not you, others. And that's where I'm going to get with a sponsor and say what is appropriate and what is not appropriate. But no matter what, that first component better be there. I better be willing. That's all I have to be at that point since we may lose our position or reputation or face jail, but we are willing. Telling you what I've seen

people willing to face jail but not willing to lose their reputation. That alcoholic ego is a hot mess says, but we have to be. We must not shrink it. Anything circle that word, anything. You know, because here's the deal. Everybody wants to come up and take exception and get real specific with a particular amends with some complexities and details and you understand the back story and you don't know these people. I think it was shit anything. Are you willing to go to any links or are you not? If you're not, bye bye,

you're going to get loaded. Period.

Right. And if you are, let's go. And then it talks about not being a martyr and throwing other people under the bus. So it says usually other people are involved and that's the case. Sometimes that's the case. Sometimes other people are involved in some of the stuff that I need to make amends for. I don't get to throw you under the bus to save me,

right? I can take responsibility for my part, but I'm not there to go. Oh, and she was there and he was also there, and he did more than the rest of No, It's time to be a grown up and take responsibility for your stuff. So it says. We're not to be the hasty and foolish martyr who would needlessly sacrifice others to save himself from the alcoholic pit. Julie and I locked knock off a liquor store. You know I get sober. Julie's still out there drinking. I don't get to name her.

I don't get to do that. I'm there. I go in front of these people except responsibility, pay the fines, do the time, whatever it is,

but I don't get to throw her under the bus. She wants to come get sober, That'll be on her.

Vice versa. See how that works? But I got to get clear about some of that stuff.

Do you have anything so far? Nope, you're good. All right, let's go. Go to 80. Go to the top of page 80.

So look at that second night step prayer. It says before taking drastic action which might implicate other people, we secure their consent

if we have obtained permission, have consulted with others such as a sponsor, people in your recovery network, ask God to help. And the drastic step is needed. We must not shrink, right? So there's my second prayer

and this city go in and talk about a story of

we don't have time to go and all that, but go back and read that story. Don't make I'll make tons of sense. Down at the bottom. It says domestic troubles and it talks about being mixed up with people in a fashion we wouldn't care to have advertised. I love the language from back then. When you're acting a fool, that's what you're that's what they should have said.

It says we down top 81. We down. If in this respect, Alcoholics are fundamentally much worse than other people, I'm sure you they're not. We're all the same. But drinking does complicate sex relations at the home. Then it goes on to talk about what happens when we get mixed up with men and women. We don't have any business being mixed up with and down in that next paragraph. What do I do about that? Because that's always the kind of the 1st or at least second question everybody wants to ask in a men's What if I've cheated? Do I tell if this is a program of honesty? How does that work?

So let's look at it. It says whatever the situation, we usually have to do something about it. Something if we're sure our wife or husband does not know, should we tell them? Not always We think, see, this is another point where your sponsor is going to be real key for you to discuss this stuff. If they know in a general way that we've been wild, should we tell her in detail? Undoubtedly we should admit our fault and then she's going to say who is she,

where does she work that she will want to know the particulars. So you got to be careful about that kind of stuff because I can't continue to cause harm.

This is we feel we ought to say to her that we have no right to involve another person. We're sorry for what we've done in God willing, it shall not be repeated. More than that, we cannot do. We have no right to go further. And they go on to talk about nothing. No hard and fast rules, just some general principles we find guiding. If your spouse knows that you've been running around, should you be honest about that? In detail, no. In actuality, yes.

Does that make sense? Right. So I'm going to go and let them know they know. If they already know, discuss that.

But we don't start naming people for them to vent jealousy on, right? If you're married or you have significant others, you're dealing with a terrible human emotion called jealousy. And if you continue to provoke that, you continue to cause harm. And that's not OK. If they have no idea, do you tell them? My experience is no, no, I have women today that I owe huge amends to, but I don't have the right to make the amend. But I hold myself in complete readiness to do so

right. And if the situation arises, I'm there compel or high water, I'll make that a man. But to to harm that relationship that I've already harmed. I don't get to do that because I feel guilty. That's selfish. That's selfish. Well, I just want to get it off my chest. Shame on you. That's not OK. I want to feel better. I can't continue with the self-centered motive. And so that that's but you know, again, get with your sponsor on that pull on some experience of the people that are strong in this fellowship that can kind of

give you some guidance guiding stuff on that.

Do you anything to add on that? OK, go to 82. We'll look at that. Third, where are we on the session? We're OK go

alright, continuing on with that topic on 82 about four lines down from the top is the third night step prayer. It says each might pray about it having the other ones happiness uppermost in mind. So are we going to let bygones be bygones? Are we going to continue to rehash this? Do we need to go get some therapy other outside resources we can utilize? Sure, But let's let's pray about this and see what we need to do. Keep it insight. We're dealing with that most terrible human emotion, jealousy.

But it says if we have no such complication, there's plenty we should do at home. Sometimes we hear an alcoholic say the only thing he needs to do is keep sober and a nickel. Certainly he must keep sober, for there'll be no home if he doesn't. But he's a long way for making good to the wife or parents for whom parents whom for years he is so shockingly treated. If you don't have shockingly treated highlighted highlight that. Think about that, right? The two delusions I sold myself on for a number of years that I can quit when I want to

and I'm only hurting myself. Turns out that's not the case. Turns out I've harmed a whole lot of people and to this day I will never know the extent not really of how how you know, shockingly, I did treat them passing all understanding is the patients, mothers and wives, you uncles, sons have had with Alcoholics. Had this not been so many of us would have no homes today would perhaps be dead. The funniest thing I ever watch is somebody that's three months sober call with A10 stab and it sounds like this. You know what?

I picked up a three month chip last week and my husband still does not trust me with a checkbook. I'm about over that,

right? You've been drunk 27 years, but you've been sober three months. Talking about. Give me that checkbook. Let me back in the bedroom. I'll be picking the kids up at carpool. No, ma'am, you won't until he trusts you. Long period of reconstruction. How dare you put a time frame on that and expect others to hop too. But we all do it. What's your problem?

I've been sober a hot minute. Well, sit out, right? Let us get used to the idea you not being loaded at dinner.

Calm down. There's there's some mottos in the back of the book. Everybody wants to use them for work in the steps, but they're really to be taken in context with the family. Live and let live. That's to be taken in the context with the family. Calm down. You scalded them for years. Let them breathe,

right? Like go and let. I mean, there's a whole whole section of that. Go read it and see what chapter it's in the family afterwards. Not in the work, in the steps.

Easy does it. Easy does it with mom and daddy. They don't trust you, don't ask for their credit card. So it says the alcoholic is like a tornado roaring his way through the lives of others. And you think about that for a minute. We read this paragraph all the time and it kind of loses its effectiveness. Think about like how a tornado is it comes, it destroys everything.

It leaves certain things that make no sense why they would be left behind. It's careless. You're careless with your behavior. You're careless with your words. You're walking around just slapping everybody and then looking at them like what, right Tornado roaring through other people's lives and then trying to act like you didn't because you either been on a blackout or you're going. It's not that big of a deal.

So not true, but that's the way we behave. Which is in turn more hurtful. Have you ever had somebody really harm you and then be like, hey, my bad

and you're like, I cried for three days. Don't say my bad. That hurt me to my core, right? You got to really look at that stuff. You've been so consumed with your pain of alcoholism and your pain of trying to get sober that we've neglected to see what we've done. I'm telling you, some of you get it 'cause you've been on that other side of it too it. It's very hurtful and says hearts are broken, sweet relationships are dead,

affections have been uprooted, selfish and inconsiderate habits have kept the home in turmoil.

Underline that Selfish and inconsiderate habits have kept the home and turmoil. I want to make it about whiskey. It's not,

it's about me. Am I Selfish and inconsiderate habits. One of the funniest things that that I see is that the alcoholic thinks that when they stop drinking, all is going to be well. And what's scarier is, is so do the family. Oh well, they quit drinking so all is going to be well. You watch some hell break loose in a household with somebody newly sober, right? The whiskey's gone. But the selfishness, the dishonesty, the deceitfulness, the manipulation, the wanting to control everybody around you is still in full force.

And it will be for a while. It will be until the principles really go to work on the alcoholic. We don't know what we're doing. We don't, right? It's hard. It says we feel a man is unthinking when he says that sobriety is enough. That's such a delusion. We don't know what we don't know. And when it gets pointed out, a sponsor will help you, absolutely help you. And if good sponsors working with your family too and helping them to understand because they're going to get upset

she quit drinking, why is she still, you know, acting crazy?

Yeah, because she's learning to live. I don't. I don't want to let a drunk off the hook, but it's the truth. We're learning to live and we're going to step on some toes in the meantime. Unfortunately, since he's like the farmer who came up out of the cyclone cellar to find his home ruined to his wife, he remarked. Don't see anything the matter here, Ma Anna Grand The wind stopped blowing.

Untreated alcoholism. Are you done? Are you ready for me to be done? No, she was asking what page on bottom of 82? That's what page we're on. I was trying to do. It was like a cheerleading.

I am a cheerleader. You are all right, top 83. So it says, yes, there's a long period of reconstruction ahead. I remember my friend Marsha asked him one time that she, she was telling a story that she asked somebody how long is long period of reconstruction? They said to her longer than three months. Marsha, we don't need to hold on. Hold on. Right. Longer than what you think a remorseful mumbling that we are sorry won't feel the bill at all. And that goes back to watching that toddler on the on the playground. Sorry,

don't that's not going to fix it. And even a sincere heart driven amends does not make it whole. It's the behavior behind it that that changes. That solidifies what I what I did when I came to you to make an amends. And that was just the approach. The way I treat my mother today solidifies what I did 6 1/2 years ago. That's the amend the change in the way that we interact, right. Some people, I don't know, maybe you're different.

I was super selfish and when I was a tiny, tiny kid, I found out that all you had to do was ask God for forgiveness and it was like a clean slate.

And now some of us want to approach men's like that. You know, I get to slap Julie around and go, I need to make amends to you. And then two days later I'm slapping her around again. No, no, no, we don't treat it like we did when we found out we could ask God for forgiveness and we would slate clean. That happens a lot. You don't get to make amends for the same thing over and over and over and over forever. Amen.