The topic "A life with service" at EURYPAA 2012 in Copenhagen, Denmark

Welcome to the meeting Alive with service meeting at Europa 2012. My name is Michael and I'm an alcoholic from Denmark. Hello,

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This is a panel presentation. We begin with a speaker sharing on the topic for about 40 minutes, following by open shareings. While the meeting are open for anyone to attend,

particular patience is limited. Those who have to decide to stop drinking, please welcome to our speakers, Michelle from Czech Republic. Thank you.

Hi, my name is Michael and I'm from Czech Republic.

For start, I would like to ask you if you please help me and start this meeting with moment of silence for still suffering alcoholic.

Thank you. I would last. I would like to ask you for one more thing to be patient and excuse my English, my grammar. I try to my best and funny thing is that I start to learning English because of service and because of sobriety in a a. So yeah, that's that's how it was with me.

The topic is life with service and it's really something which touched me deeply. And I have to start with my childhood

like it usually it's speakers meetings, but I will be really short about it. And it's because

I from, from, from the kid, like from six or seven years old. I, we lived at countryside. We have something like farm, a lot of animals and a lot of lot of work had to be done there. And my stepfather was drunkard. So I had to do these things almost every day. So it was like feeding this animal and clean them for clean up for them, set up for them.

And it was really, really a lot of work and hard work. And I do it from from this early age and what is important for me on it. I I'm, I'm glad for it. I'm grateful for this, for this period of my life. It it's take me it's it's give me a lot, a lot of a lot of experience and and feelings. But

as as alcoholic and as much as sick person with the spiritual

spiritual disease, it always went to extremes. So as kid, I I felt this

hard and heavy responsibility and sense for duty and that I I have to be there for help of to my parents and and mainly my my mother and and little brother. So it was, it was really bounding me in this, in this sort of life.

So I remember that, that this feeling when I was at the holiday at my, at my grandmother's and it was, it was season of harvest. And I, I, I, I, I realised that my mother is, is back home and, and she has to do this all, she has to do all these things. And she was busy with her two jobs. So yeah. And, and I, I wasn't able to enjoy any

playing with other kids or, or just doing what I want.

I, I was like, Oh my God, I have to help her and I'm here and I should, I should enjoy something. It's, it's not possible. And it was, it was really crazy. I was like 9 year old and, and I, I just feel, I just felt that way. And what I'm why I'm saying that is because I start to drinking. I, I skip to right to death. I start drinking when I was 11 years old.

The change, the things changed and the time we, we, we left my stepfather and live in in different

city or village. But that was also hard, hard life because our mother was, was alone for two of us and we don't have any money. And, and it, I, I, I, I still felt this responsibility for helping her. And I, I, I, I have jobs for, for making some money and helping

and everything. But my mother gives me more free time. And it came absolutely natural for me to start drinking at my free time. It, and I was 11 years old. So I, I bought this my first beer and I, I drank, I drank it in, in elevator at the train station. So there is only one, one level of only one floor. So I, that was like

15 seconds when the door door closed and we, an elevator was going up. And I, I drank or like fast enough after that I hide it behind my behind my back

and I still go in up and down and drinking this beer. And suddenly it, I, I felt different. It was, it was gone. All these feelings, all these responsibilities and, and, and sense for duties just just disappeared. And it was great. It was great. But like I was, like I said before everything

came, everything with me came to the extremes. So that was my first and last one beer

and after that I always wanted more. I, I always wanted more of this and that feeling from that elevator when I was going up and down. I, I think I, I never experienced it again with this, with this really amazing

sort of way, because after that I, I always get it worse and do it worse. So I still, I still try to help my mother and I still have these jobs and everything.

I, I save every, every cent, every, every penny, every, every money. I said I, I wasn't like other kids that I buy some toys or or chips or lollipops or everything. I just save this money because I had to help my mother. So I, I should buy the pens for myself or, or books to to school for myself. And

later from, from these eleven years, I, I had to buy drinks for me because

the one beer was wasn't enough. So, and in this case, my mind function differently. I don't, I don't look at the prices. I don't look that I need to do something else with this money. I just, I just wanted to buy that. And I always have enough money because I was the hard worker. So I always had like two jobs at the same time. And I, I did it. And after that, I just drunk. And

that was my, that was my

puberty. That was my, my growing up from, from 11 years old. And

what was another extreme in this case that when I was drunk, I really didn't care about my responsibilities and about my duties. And but it, it wasn't in the, in that way, like it's helped me and I, I feel free. It was like oblivion. I, I just forget it. I just, I just begun from that

and after that I, I started have regrets, terrible regrets and, and my, my conscience just just killing, killing me because I love my mother and I know that that it's still hard that this life which we which we had and I just, I just cannot, cannot bear it. I, I remember when I was like 12 or 13 years old and we, we buy this,

this pack of

beer, like like 100 beers with another free, free, free friends of mine and went for a weekend somewhere. And when, when we drank at the first night and then day after everybody was sick and nobody from them was was wanted to continue only me. But I remember that that feeling that hangover like emotionally that I am doing something really wrong. I should be helping, I should be responsible

and I'm doing this and only solution for for how how to change that feeling was get drunk again. I, I didn't know anything else. So I did it and I, I continue with it for a few more years and it was getting worse. Really. So what I'm saying this all according to the topic is that

with progression of my illness and and and my my drinking, it's

these feelings of responsibility and, and want it to be helpful

disappeared at all. They they were, they were just gone. I I wasn't able to help anybody and I was unreliable. My mother cannot ask me of anything because if she did, I probably don't remember that or I just wasn't able to do that. And that was same thing at school and later that in at my job. I I really skip this, this Oh, maybe I don't

some, some part.

I always was able to figure things out like like at school, I I don't pay attention at, at nothing. I I, I was there like one day a week and the most of the time I was working. So I because I need the money for drinking. And after that I was, I was, I was drinking and drunk. So I, I don't went to the school and but I was able to, to, to finish it.

I think they, they give me this, this graduation only for mercy for them that they get rid of me because yeah, I, I, I did a lot of crazy things there. And there was a shame for a whole school at some some trip to, to to see. And then, yeah, I, I ashamed of the whole school and the teachers are the teachers were like

trying to get me back to my life because I was, I was passed out and

I have, I have poison from alcohol poisoning from alcohol because I was drunk drinking like 10 days a throw there and it finished really, really, really bad. So, yeah, there was a lot of crazy things which I, which I, which I was able to, to, to date when I was drinking. And after that graduation, I, I got to work. I don't know how they just came into, into the school and offered it and I just OK, whatever. And I

there, but

I wasn't, I wasn't doing anything. I just, I just go there, sit there with hangover. And after that I, I just went to the bar and they don't tolerate it for a long time. Yeah, right. Because that, that wasn't school, that wasn't teachers. That was that was my employee. So employer. So yeah, that was different. And

and I, I started realized that I, I have to be responsible again and I have to do things again.

And I, I wanted to, but like a person, like a like a citizen or whatever, I was really destroyed. The alcohol took it from me. The alcohol took it all from me. And

I don't, I didn't know how to start again with it. I, I, I, I wasn't able to stop drinking at at first place. So yeah, that was the main problem. And luckily,

like, like back then when I was 11 years old, I naturally know what I want to do with my free time, like by like bought a beer and drink. I when I was desperate. I naturally know I don't know how that I need a A, you know, in Czech Republic, it's, it's different or it's, it's how it is. And, and there there are a lot of there is really, really few people who know what a A is

and that that even exist. But I, I have it somehow in in myself. That's OK, OK, I'm alcoholic. I that was one thing was I was sure about that. I'm an alcoholic. Everybody told me around me, everybody was was really upset about it and they they hated me then hated my drinking and then and

and they loved me anyway and they don't they cannot help me. So

what, what can that, what can

they, what one thing what they can do was abandoned me and they did it And I I cannot blame them because there was nothing else what to do with me. I was really unreliable and I was isolating myself anyway. So that was happened and in that moment of deep desperation of my life and hatred for myself and after a few attempts for killing myself,

I just know that I need a a So I I find the contact for them. And it was it was in my in my city. So that was it was great. And I I start to attending there. I it wasn't easy that only one person left in my life, like friend from from the previous work when I when I was when I was working before

and he take me, He took me at these meetings

here. We literally bring me there because I was drunk laying in bed at at my apartment and I was I wasn't able to move or anything. So he just picked me up and, and take me there and

yeah, I'm, I'm really grateful, grateful for this to him. So, and that was my start in a A and it wasn't, it wasn't the happy, happiest one because

I, I, I, I, I know in the time that I'm an alcoholic, I, like I said, I, I, I haven't any doubt about it. And I can, I can, I was able to relate with everybody there and with their sharings. But I was, of course, the youngest person there. I was 21 years old and

I still haven't anything

from for, for starting the new life, starting to be responsible again and, and, and feel and fit in that, in that, in that kind of life which I need to develop because that old one was destroyed. And I, I didn't do anything. I just attend these meetings because I was really desperate. But I, I don't, I don't, I didn't speak with anybody and

I don't did, I didn't do any service

steps or attending another things that

besides the meetings. So I, I relapsed after four months there. And that was really a lesson for me, unnecessary lesson. And I'm grateful for that as well, because everything, what I, what I, what I heard at these meetings came up back to me. And I, I now and in the time I, I, I know

more than there is a, a which can help me. I, in the time I, I was aware that there is a program of recovery which can change me. And that was what I, I desperately wanted. That's, that was the final necessary change in my thinking that I, I really want absolutely different life. I, I need to something else.

So I came back

and I start over like absolutely. I find a sponsor right away. I start to work the steps, the first step and because it was, it was necessary because I don't know what what to do else. And that that group was was really amazing. The people there were really amazing and the the group was.

Function and healthy which is

very rare thing in

AA in Czech Republic I can say and I'm grateful for that too.

So

there, there was a service which I can, which, which was possible for me to do. There was there was a lot of things which I which I was able to do. And but what, what I, what I want to say is how, how it was with my feelings, because

I was really alone

with in that the previous life. And I, I wasn't able to

look at look at the eyes, the people and, and speak with them frankly and, and actually at all.

And you know, in, in a, a is a lot of acceptance and everybody who came there, the the others just love him because he is there. And that happened to me as well.

I brought that I brought, I brought there with myself that hatred for myself. And I wasn't able to accept myself. So I needed to change that. And I needed some, some, some tools, some, some things which which can help me with it. And I find out that that's the service. That was a service for for group, for meeting, for fellowshippers

as a whole.

So I, I start to,

I start to wash the glasses and, and, and cups because that was yeah, somebody have to do that. And it was in in kitchen so I can hide there. And somebody came, came there and asked me and I was like

cleaning that, that cup and I, oh, OK, good, good. And, but I, I can, I can, I can felt like I'm belong there. I am part of it. I, I, I don't know how to do that. I don't. I was scared and everything, but I was there and that was important

and, and I, I, I, I was able to do this. I was able to continue with this. So there was a lot of more, more service like beside the cleaning and, and everything. So,

so

that was that necessary tool for me how to develop and start to feel and, and use these responsibilities and things, which with my life, which was there when I was a kid, but extremely out of the line. And in a a it's it's about it's for me about

to learn it how to do it in in in some sort of balance,

some sort of

Indiana Yeah, right. Do it, do it, do it in the right way. And I need for that sponsors and other members and traditions and everything which somehow maintain it because I am it's nature for me to

do it extremely and I and that that's not how it works for me. So I need this maintenance and I need these guidelines. And that was really big and new thing for me to be able to

listen and follow these things. I was so desperate that there was nothing other we would what I can do? I try everything before. And so I did it. I, I continued with it and it started to work because that's how it works. That's how my higher power works for me in, in this in this in, in sobriety,

through people, through groups to, to fellowship, to program. And

the service was like really the most important thing for me, I think because

I, I find doubt, I find myself there. I, I was, I was feeling that I can be useful again. I can do something really good and I can be part of something, something really good. And it's hard for me to to speak about service because I'm used to that. When I, when I start to talk what I did,

it sounds like I am, I am, you know, like I don't know what it works. So I don't, I cannot finish it,

but yeah, I am. I'm not used to talk about it. But my sponsor said to me that if you, if you don't talk about it, nobody will know that. And that's true because that was how I find out that that I heard another people talk about what, what, what helped, what helped them. So yeah, I started to do that and I wanted to do right now. So

I think everything is service in a, A and

but I think it I think it now I I don't I don't think it before

like sitting on on on meeting his service. I don't think so

do it sponsorship. I don't think so. That was what I was what I was thinking that the service is only to go out there and tell the people that here is a A and it can help to problem drinkers and anybody who who want to stop drinking. And I, I did it the most. I,

I was going around and, and tell this and give this message to everybody who, who want, who was willing to listen and, and be able to take it. So

I think the, the basic service, which was the really beginning for me was start a new group. You know, in Czech Republic, we have like 45 groups in whole country.

It's really not enough. It's really not much. And I, I, I was thinking, what's so difficult about it? Just find some place where, where we can sit. We had literature and, and did a meeting. So there was a lot of city around my, my Home group and my home city. So I just start to write emails, make controls and and

right there and I find one place at one city and we start a meeting there.

And it was great that meetings is still still still working. So

that was the first amazing thing for me that I can, I can make some difference. I can be part of this fellowship and I can help help to develop it like it was helping to me develop my new abilities in life, new new feelings and, and regain the responsibilities and all these things.

And that service was amazing even even before, even because when I was going in this city to this meeting, I was usually I, I usually were, I usually was there alone at the meeting because there was new, there was no newcomers for from the start. But I have literature and I have, I have steps and I can, I can, I can get a lot of work for myself in that time.

It was different from being only at, at, at my apartment and, and feel self pity or, or, or something. So I, I did, I always did when I, when I, when I'm doing service, I always doing something useful for myself, for somebody else. But it's, it's much better than just be alone, close, isolated somewhere.

It's I am sharing this. Even if I'm alone, I am, I am. I'm part of this recovery. I'm part of this program. I'm part of this,

this whole fellowship. And that's a, that's a really great realization for me because I'm alone right now and I'm, I can be alone anyway in any time. So,

but I, I know what to do with, with this and I don't know, I, I know how to, how to make this right. So after after this group, we start a new group in different city and and another, another.

And I, I was,

I was

there, the service structure at Czech Republic was like 2 guys in the capital city sitting in some basement and

directing everything in whole country. And they, they absolutely don't listen to any group conscience or something. They just, they just don't care. They, they know how to do it right, Right. So

but the fellowship in Czech Republic was growing and there was more of us so and we don't like it. So we try to spoke with them and they just ignore us and and and other stuff. So there was a revolution. I didn't know that in that time. I was, I was told that after that, yeah, you, you will, you will be, you will sit there and this revolution in your country and what it was just, we just wanted to start

do it right, these things.

So yeah, it was revolution probably. So we start a new service structure. We moved our, our general service office. We found the, the board of trustees, the service board and I was, you know, I, I, I, I have like 10 months of sobriety and I was the first trustee. So it was crazy, but everybody trusts me because I, I, I was doing a lot of, lot of things.

And we, we start to publish the, our national magazine. I'm, I am the responsible chief for that. So there was a lot of space for how to, how to bring people to, to fellowship and how to unite the, the groups in Czech Republic and other stuff. We, we started committees for literature, for public information, for everything. I, I was member of each of these committee and I still AM

in some in some of them because there wasn't so many people and,

but it's amazing how, how it, how it's getting better and how it's how it's working and, and how it's how it's functional. So

and that was that was the absolutely important part of my life. This because I didn't know what to do in my life. And the a a, the service for a, a gave it gave it all to me. And the most

unbelievable thing is that it works for my personal life as well. I, I, I never didn't care much for what I'm doing at work. I just go there,

did what they say and and get a paycheck and I, I wasn't ambitious in it. I, I, yeah, why, why so? But it's changed. It's changed also because I was I and they can rely on me and I was good, good worker or something. So they appreciates me and, and it's getting better and I, I, I give that I, I was given this opportunity to work in other office in other

state in other countries. So like right now I'm living in Netherlands

because of it and it's really amazing and it's, it's great experience and everything. And it's all because of a, a, I start to learn English. How, how I said before, because of English, because of, because of a, a, we had like only two books in Czech language. So and I, I, I was eager to, to get, get more. So I, I had to learn it, I had to read it in English. So I start to

learn it and

everything, everything what I have right now in my life is because of a, a, because of sobriety and because of this amazing fellowship. So

I'm really, really grateful for everything. What, what is going on here and, and in the, in the whole world, which is united by these principles and, and, and amazing stuff and

life with service.

I, I was, it's a great thing that I now live in Netherland, but I am far away from my Home group and for and from all this stuff which I was, which I was used to do. I was doing public information meeting information meetings for schools because my, my hardest drink and my worst drinking was at high school. So

I, I, I loved to go to the, to these schools and speak with these kids and, and told them my story

and everything. So I missed that and I missed to go into, to rehab centers, spoke with patients and, and, and this really suffering, suffering Alcoholics. It's, it's amazing experience for me. And I really needed to, for, for relate with, with this disease still and a lot of another stuff. I was, I'm member of steering committee right now. So we are preparing our conferences and conventions in Czech Republic. And

I still, I still do this magazine of ours. And that's, that's great work. It's, it's amazing work because I, I, I received this lot of stories and I, I work with them and I, I, I, I heard them, I listened to them and I can relate to them and pass them, pass them on, you know, share them with, with people through this magazine. And, and I'm in touch with so, so many great, great people.

So

that, that also making my life so, so richer, so, so better. But I, I, I cannot imagine it without it. So, and the service is for me, the most nature thing in my life right now. And it was from beginning, but it wasn't so easy. And it's, it's, it's, it's get better

and

it bring me back this,

this important skills and

you know,

the good character

things which I need for to be better human being and, and to be citizen. I still don't want don't, don't vote for politics. So I don't know if I'm the correct citizen, but I try to do something good for, for society. And it's important to me and it's helping to me back. So everything, what I, what I did for somebody else or for this fellowship was rewarding.

Is is rewarding for me as well.

And, and even more so yeah, it's it's kind of still selfish program because whatever I I did, I it's it's helped me and it's still helping me. So it's changed my life and and that was what I needed to absolutely completely change that that horrible thing what what I was calling my life. So, yeah, well,

OK, so

I don't know if I share everything what I what I wanted because I, I wasn't prepared.

I was, I wasn't able to prepare for this, but

I, I, I think that it's, it's really in me that the service is so important for my recovery and for to get back my life and start over with it and how to learn the things which I, which alcohol took away from me. And it, and it was, it was really, it was really gone. It was destroyed. Everything was destroyed by alcohol in my life

and I I had to find out how to build up again. And that's what fellowship program and service did did for me. So

I'm really grateful for that. I really appreciate your patience with my sharings and that you are here and thank you very much. Thanks.

Thanks, Michelle. The meetings is now open for questions and answers or comment. We ask that you limit your share to to three minutes who would like to begin? Thank you

for one of the meetings. I volunteered and somebody said

well, you haven't got three months sobriety yet because I didn't have three months at that time. So you really can't do that according to the way that we've set up our internal guidelines. And then one of my not exactly friends, it was one of those who thought that I was obnoxious, difficult, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, which I probably was. He said, well, you know what, I will have the key. I come to every meeting anyway. I will in theory be responsible for the meeting and open

key for the door and open it and you can chat. And I can tell you, I was so grateful that he let me do that because that helped me staying sober because for three months I was then chairing a meeting.

Then later on, I did other jobs in, in the group I was in those days. Later on. I, I, I will not use the term promoted, but there's something about the group that's the, we have the tribalist group and then we have the region. So I, I went there and did some service. And the last service I did at that kind of level was in the Central European region as a region Rep, which I will tell you

was very rewarding in the sense that of the of all the

Alcoholics I met there, a lot of them when they shared the experience, strengthen home. Hope I could learn a lot.

That's that's one thing which for me means I will always encourage people who are willing to do service do as much as you can because certainly I got more out of it than I gave. That's at least my evaluation. Then there's another thing I was thinking about is that actually I do believe that going to a meeting still means I do a kind of service.

Because when I came back from my time outside Denmark and I came back to here, I, I've always had the principle I want to try to do at least one meeting a week because otherwise I'm convinced I would drink again. So I do that and I have had a number of years. And one of the things which I've heard mentioned many Times Now is we do sometimes miss the so-called old timers, that is people along the term of sobriety.

And I do believe that it is important that in any group

there's a good mix of 24 hour people, months, people, years, people. Because no matter how we look at it, everybody can give something to each other, right? The one that comes in after a drunk, he or she reminds me of what it was like years ago when I drink.

And I can share my experience over the years. And they can take what they want. Like. Yeah. Because there's one rule I always apply in AA. It's a place where you can steal from other people's experience as much as you can as long as it keeps you sober. Thanks for listening. And thank you, Michael, for your share.

My name is Liz. I'm an alcoholic.

I, I spoke recently and I surprised myself because I heard myself say that I hope my sobriety has value to more people than me. And that's what I'm reminded of in this meeting, this movement, this gradual transformation of the person that arrived here to the person who is here now

from being in an attitude of taking to being in an attitude of giving.

And I I totally joined the chorus of

any activity. It is possible that any activity is service. However, I think it is a value that my attitude is a serving attitude. Somehow I have the hunch that this is part of what heals me and at the same time it's also it's also a way to measure

how recovered am I today.

The good thing about very structured, disciplined, ever so often service is that it gives a very regular opportunity to realize how recovered am I now.

The good thing about the spontaneous service is that I start recognizing that I get wealthier and wealthier and wealthier on the inside. Since more and more often my attitude is an attitude

of how do I, how does my recovery serve more people than me?

And

it touches me because I didn't have the ambition arriving here ever.

I don't care who else it touches that I'm sober. And now I care. That's what you people do. Yeah. And I so love it.

An aspect of service

to me is somehow to make an effort to materialize the principles and that can look in so many unique ways. And that's also how I appreciate that there is no one right away of doing it

because my unique way is equally valid to all the other ways.

You made me so well that I've been able to read and remember for a couple of years now, which means I started school some years ago and the first person I met in there is another member of the program right there. And I am certain that it has been an act of service for me to be there. And that's not me doing it. It's more that I am participating

in this which is doing it. Thank you for letting me share.

When I joined a some time now, some time ago, there were only six members in in the group and four of them were or the five of them were foreigners and only one Maltese.

And so as soon as I came in, I, I was, I was the youngest one, of course.

And they forced me into service there. OK,

after three months, you'll become the secretary. Then later the other Maltese member told me, let's open a Maltese group, multi speaking group. I said, oh, with me. And you said yes. And thank God. And thank God it was, it was like that. Because now not that we are many, but we are, we are over 100 Maltese.

And for us it is a very,

very good number because of the situation that, that we that we face and

other things. And there is another island of, of Malta and there was a patient over there, let's call him a patient and alcoholic who adopted a friend of, of mine called me and said, I hear you are in a a yes, I said, I have this

patient of mine who is very sick and come and talk to him. And so I went and that was another service. We started a group on on Ongoes as well. Now there are four groups in Kozo. And also another thing, important thing in service that that we made is the translations.

We have our own language and it's already very difficult to speak it, let alone translate from American English

into into Maltese. And so we managed to translate the big book Daily Reflections 12 and 12 and, and these are very helpful, helpful things. Having said that, probably one of my most important service duties was in fact washing cups. And because that made me feel small,

that made me feel that, you know, I,

because of my intelligence, I tended to be do service in in a high position, when in fact that that was really. And I still I still wash the cups when I can. Thank you.

Hello. I'm Chris. I'm an alcoholic. I'm from Bristol in England and it's it's wonderful to be here. And Michael, thank you so much. I, I identified with all sorts of things and especially in a way

your upbringing, although mine was different. But I ended up with this sense of responsibility and I brought that into a A in a way. And I, when I came to a A and I got sober people, people gave me jobs to do.

And I'm so grateful for that, that they didn't let me just sit about and, and exactly like you, I, I retreated to the kitchen and washed the ashtrays and washed the cups and, and it, it did me the world of good because it, I hated myself and, and by doing something for other people, I started to feel alright about myself. And I slowly got into doing

all kinds of other things. I would, I would give people lifts in the car from mental hospitals to the meetings.

And, and I, I started to feel I'm actually quite a useful sort of person sometimes. And, and I, I, I built up over the, over the time I've been in, I've built up a bit of self esteem which I had none of at all. And I, I felt better about myself and, and I'm in a, in a way, I'm quite envious that you, you had to be involved in so many things

on, on every little subcommittee and doing absolutely everything that was going about because there's so few people about.

And, and it's some of the art of getting sober and staying sober is, is to hand stuff over as well, isn't it? And, and I, I,

I've, I, I divested myself of, of a lot of jobs, which is, I think people are very grateful for that.

So, so you need to hand stuff on and, and hand it over. And, and I'm, I'm ever so impressed with with how when when Bill Wilson died,

the the the system was all in place where where it was a seamless handover really from from from from Bill and Bob, the Co founders

to the conference in the States. And it did just sort of smoothly went on. And and yeah, I loved listening to you. It was like, you know, it's like being some sort of pioneer. It was, it was like Bill and Bob in those early days. And I love reading about the history of a A and

just the struggles they had and, and the difficulties and all, all those personality strikes that would, would come in as well.

So I'm very grateful. It's a lovely meeting. Thank you very, very much.

Just like to thank you, Michael for your share and everybody else. It's been a good meeting.

Yeah, I remember coming to a convention here in Copenhagen called CPH 12, and I was probably 2 weeks sober, maybe, maybe a month sober. And I expected to come there and sit there and, you know, just kind of get a free ride. And they handed me a broom

and told me to, to clean the area, that we'd be having a meeting before people came in. And I remember, I remember thinking, This is why they brought me here to clean. You know, they, they kind of coerced me into coming here to clean their room for them. And because I, you know, I was still, you know, very shaky and identifying myself as an alcoholic. And I would, I just, the ego

depletion and the anger I felt when they hand me that broom was, was very,