The topic of "Living The Traditions" at the EURYPAA Convention in Stockholm, Sweden

Welcome to Living the Tradition panel, the session of Europa. My name is Victor. I'm an alcoholic from Stockholm, Sweden.

This is the AA preamble. Alcoholics Anonymous is a fellowship of men and women who share their experience, strange and hope with each other that they may solve their common problem and help others to recover from alcoholism. The only require for membership is a desire to stop drinking.

There are no dues or fees for a membership. We are self supporting through

through your own contributions. Hey, it's not allied with any sake.

Then then animation. A politic organization or institution does not wish to engage in any controversy, neither endorsed or oppose any causes. Our primary purpose is stay sober and help other Alcoholics to achieve sobriety. About anonymity.

Your public relations policy is based on attraction rather than rather than promotion.

We need always to maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio and films.

Thus, we respectfully ask that a speakers and a members not be photographed, videotaped, were identified by full name on audio tapes and in published or broadcast reports of your meetings, including those reports on the new media technologies such as in the Internet.

Yeah,

the assurance of anonymity is essential in your efforts to help other problem drinkers who may wish to share your recovery program with you. And your tradition of anonymity minds us that a principles come before a personalities. The meetings of Europa are being recorded, so we ask that you only identify

with your first name and Siri when you're sharing.

This is the pattern of

yeah, now we're going to have a panel and we have Anders to go first.

My name is Honest. I'm an alcoholic from Copenhagen

who actually been talking about the tradition, have a hard time not saying my last name because I think we are not anonymous inside of a A and we are at a, a meeting. But that's not an issue not leaving the tradition, which we're going to talk about today. First of all, Yeah, my, I got sober on the 8th of January 1998 and my Home group is called Men Among Men. We meet Thursday night at 8:15 in Copenhagen, Denmark. It's the best

a meeting in the world and I hope your Home group is the same.

First of all, I want to publicly to thank my wife who's home taking care of our two small children because without her I could not be here.

I think it's important to acknowledge that

and

on this topic, I, I was talking on Skype with Jay about what topic he wanted to meet to share about. And, and, and this is not my favorite topic. I would love to talk about anything else basically, but he talked to me into it. Anybody who would talk to Jane, always a good salesperson. And, but I, of course, I have some experience in doing it. And, and, and primarily I'm going to talk about tradition one, how how I use that in my life, because that's the easy one to to acknowledge that and

not to start talking bingos. And if you don't know the traditions, I will read them as I talk about them because it could be the first situation is our Commonwealth should come first. Personally, recovery depends upon a unity. That's the short form. The long form says each member of Alcoholics Anonymous is but a small part of a great whole, a must continue to live. Almost all must

us or must of us will. Most of us will die, surely die sorry. Hence our Commonwealth will come first, but individual welfare follows close afterwards.

How I use this tradition actually, I just want to share shortly on I talked today about this about the two or three two weeks ago, something like that. And

what I of course, I've been thinking a lot and making some good speeches in the time. But but one thing I was thinking about is how I'm I'm now starting to use is is is used nutrition bond when thriving using our Commonwealth should come first, not me. And it's actually been quite fun the last week trying to drive like that because it's, I spend a lot of time with Rd. Cosmo work and, and it's really, really fun to, to, to try to, to drive like, you know, yeah, we should come,

welfare should probably be that we should wife today and come home to our families afterwards. The day is done. And, and so, so I try to drive like that. I try to, to, to, to let people in and, and, and you know, and stuff like that. And it's, it's, it's just fun playing with that stuff like that for me to, to, to, to try to be a better, better person on the road.

How I do it in a, you know, in my relationship with my wife is of course that, that, that, that we need to talk about stuff.

I could not just come, you know, when I saw the commercial for this convention, I, I just didn't book a flight and, and, and go ahead to go home and talk to my wife about how is this with you? You know, do we have any other plans? What about the kids? Is that you, you know, I'm leaving for three days and, and, you know, I have a kid who is 2 1/2 and I have kids who is 10 months. So it's not like it's just fun being with them and home alone. It's, it's hard work. And so, so so I have to talk to my wife about this shit. And

pardon my French, I'm Danish. So we talk about that

and, and, and we also use, use this thing about, you know, yeah, all the planning we do together, we need to plan things and also about how to, to, to act in our lives, how to, you know, we can just go and, and, you know, I can just, if I like, you know, I like gadgets, you know, I don't just go by expensive mobile phone because, because that's what I want. I need to look at into our finances is the money for that and stuff like that. You know, that's how Commonwealth will come first. Not mine, but short enough that we also have to, look,

I have to do stuff and she has to do stuff. So when she says no, well, at least like to go to school, you know, to start instead of working. Yeah, we, you know, we have to look into it. It doesn't, doesn't work. And yes, it did that. And now she's studying and I'm making some money. She's making a little bit of money and the thing works out, you know, and it's, it's, it's just, it's really a tradition that I just a short, you know, a Commonwealth. I, I use it so many times doing, you know, when I also can use it in a bad way. I can also use it in an argument when I'm trying to win you know

when I think she's existed in acoustic being egotistical you know as is that when our Commonwealth and that's not a way of using it. So and our second tradition says that for good purpose. There's but one alternative authority, a loving God and he's may press himself on our group conscience. Our leaders are but trust and servant. They do not govern, and

that's the short form. And the short form is basically that that she's not God and I'm not God.

You know, we need to talk about the ship to build again, you know, and that that is

basically it's one of the hardest thing I've done Soba is to be in a relationship living with, with, with my wife because it's, it's, it's, it's, you know, she's also in another 12 step program. So we have some issue once in a while and some ego cleansing. And, but when we do our program, it's, you know, it's much more easy to lift. And of course, tradition 3 is the only crime. And for him is it membership? Membership is the style. Stop drinking. And then how cool that is the only I mean,

we need to have a desire to be in that relationship. She needs to want to be there and I want to need to, but she don't you don't have to be with me. She can leave if she wants to and I can leave her answer. And I mean, it's after five years of marriage and being together 7. It's once in a while come up. You know that well, this doesn't work out and, and you have to look into it. And, and again it's it's been fortunate that we are still together and I'm with a happy birthday.

The 4th situation says that the group should be autonomous, accepting matter affecting all groups as a whole and

and then go down to to also connect a little bit. But with 10. Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues, hence the a name would never be drawn into public consensus.

I cannot talk to to say that say something on the behalf of my family without consulting my wife. You know, if somebody asked us, you know, can you be coming and stay, you know, go for dinner or something like that? I need to talk to my wife about it. And I cannot say, do you know that for our family that we don't like whatever, you know, bluegrass or whatever. I mean, I need, we need, I cannot, I can say what I don't want. I can say what I don't like, but when it comes to to to, to,

to as a family as a whole, we need to be, I need to talk to my wife about it. And that's also something that I've been really need to work about working on. And especially those about, you know what, when I'm making plans, you know, people say, you know, can you come and do this and this, you know, because especially now we have the kids, I need to ask my wife, can I can, can I go and to Stockholm and have some fun for three days? So can I go do this and do that, you know, because, you know, it was easier without the kids because then it was just, you know, the two of us. But

but you know, we need some planning and and it's just it's for me, it's good because it takes me ego a bit of out of the way that, you know, I have to look into to to to what's best for the family.

And of course, step the 12th tradition and Mt need to be so for like 20 years of disabled to say that anonymity is the spirit of foundation for all our traditions, ever reminding us to place principal personalities. And that means that I do not come first in this relationship, but the principle of how we live comes first. For example, we my my my wife is a member of debtors Anonymous. It's a small fellowship,

people who cannot handle credit cards basically.

And you know, so we have to live by our finances in a certain way. So it's OK with her 12 star program. And that's when the principal could become people personalities that again, I cannot go and and buy expensive things without looking into our finances and stuff like that. And it's it's just it's just it just makes good sense when you when you look at it this way and and

clap down plank ego is going to continue. So I'm just going to cut out here because something will. Yeah, ask me please.

Thanks. I'm Ashley. I'm an alcoholic.

Hey, my sobriety date is March 4th, 2001. I'm really happy to be here at the first Eerie Paw. It's pretty awesome. And then doing young people's a A for a long time. And yeah, it's just really great to meet all you people.

I was asked to do to speak on the traditions. It was put forth to me to talk about how I work them and

in my life and my relationships that work, things like that. And you know, for spending some time thinking about it. For me, the traditions are all about group harmony. You know, it's like when we look, when we read all the traditions, that's kind of the overarching theme of them. And it's kind of the same idea with the 12 steps. It's like I have to do a certain amount of work on myself, but then it's all about the group. You know, I can't get sober alone. And

so, yeah, like, there's no such thing as, like, me getting sober in a bubble or like even living out in the world in a bubble because we're all connected,

you know? And so when I think about traditions, I think about this unity. And for me, that's really tied in with humility as well. You know, if I'm thinking like, I don't belong or I'm like, better or worse than somebody else, that I'm actually not being present. Like, I'm not actually part of this thing, you know? So for me, their traditions are also about, like, shattering perceptions and shattering the perception that I'm alone. Like I'm a single individual person that's just like going about my business. Like that's actually not true,

you know, we're all in this together. So I, there's this thing, I don't know if they have it over here. I'm sure they do, but it's called a traditions checklist. And this was originally, this originally came out in 1969 and then was printed again in 1971 in the, a, a Grapevine. And it's from the general service office. You can like download this offline, but it's really interesting because it tells you each tradition and then it goes through a series of questions. And so I've used this in a a group before in the past, and then also just in my own personal life to just have a way for me

figure out if I'm working in these traditions in my life. And I like a lot of these questions. And I'm just going to talk about, I think just two traditions to keep it simple. I kind of went through this again and highlighted the questions that were pertinent to right here, right now. So as far as tradition one is concerned, the first question on this list says, am I in my Group A healing, mending, integrating person? Or am I divisive? What about gossip and taking other members inventories? And this to me is just a really good question to apply

family relationships and work. You know, it's like, how am I showing up? How am I showing up in the world? Am I like being a person of love? Am I listening to people? Am I like, here? Am I actually paying attention to what they have to say? You know, am I just like, off somewhere else when somebody's talking to me? Am I integrating with a group, you know, or am I just pushing people away? Am I just so full of hate and anger and like, Discord that I can't like, you know, connect with people

and gossip? Gossip's have been a big one for me, especially like

I like, it didn't even occur to me until I was about five years sober that gossip like wasn't cool. You know, I just, I didn't even know. And maybe it's because I was young. I'm sure all people gossip at any age, but I would go to these, you know, young people's meetings and, and even just in my life, you know, and just gossip about other people. It's just like what you do. You just talk about other people. And, you know, and I remember around five years sober and my sponsor said something to me and we were talking about gossip and, and I heard somebody been gossiping about me. You know, I was pissed.

I was pissed. And she's like, well, let's look at your behavior, you know, like, are you gossiping about other people? And it's like, well, yeah, you know, yeah, I am. And it's like, well, why are you doing that? You know, I'm this kind of person that for so long, I just, if I didn't like somebody, like I wanted to get the whole group to not like that person just so like, I would feel good about myself, you know what I mean? It's like it is so messed up to think about it now, but this is just a really good tool that I can use in, in in all areas of my life. It's like, just ask myself this question, like, am I? What am I bringing to the table,

talking about people or not? You know, what if I'm talking about shit about people, why am I doing that? You know, it's like, what's what's the motivation behind that? Like, do I really not like myself that much that I have to just put more negative stuff out into the world?

The next question that I'm that I like here, it says, do I put down some of a A activities as if I were superior for not participating or in this, in this or that aspect of a A. And this is this question for me is like really pertinent in my family and at work.

And I oftentimes think that that I don't have to like do certain things because like I'm better, you know, it's like, like at work, you know, I'm a coworker will ask me to do something. And then I think like, yeah, I don't actually need to participate in that. Like I don't need to go to the holiday party. I don't need to like be part of this group. Like I'm I have way better things to do. And that's actually not, you know, it's not what the traditions about, like it's all about unity. And so me, you know, saying that I'm better than something and not participating is just ultimately not good for the group as a whole.

And this, I like this question too.

Am I considerate of AAA members as I want them to be at me? And this is pertinent in all areas of my life, especially with friendships. And I often hold people to a really high standard that I can't even live up to myself. You know, I expect a lot out of people. I expect them to treat me certain ways to do certain things. And often times I am falling short of that mark. And so this is just a good thing for me to think about in terms of like, can I be, can I be gentle with other people and can I be gentle with myself?

You know,

I'm going to skip on down to tradition 4. Each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting other groups or a as a whole. And this one is really, really pretty with my family. Do I insist that there are only a few right ways of doing things in a A and my whole pretty much my whole life, I've always thought that like, I know the right way to do things and, and like nobody else does. And I come from a long line of Alcoholics in a really crazy family.

And I would, I was always trying to, like, get my dad to do certain things and, like, my brother to do certain things. And like, like, I had all these ideas about what was right, you know? And I was never really willing to listen to what anybody else else had to say to like, yeah, to just listen to what anyone else had to say, to hear their experience, you know, and maybe think for one second that that somebody could be living their life and they were fine without me interjecting and like giving them my opinion

or thinking that like, you're trying to like, force them to do what I thought was right.

Do I put down other members behavior when it is different from mine or do I learn from it? And this is a huge one that I, you know, that I practice in a as well as outside in the world. It's like, again, I mean, I often think that I know the right way to do things and that my way is far superior than anyone else is. And what I've learned through the years is that I am much more. I'm just, I'm a happier person when I can just let go of that ego and just hear that there are so many different ways that people work,

work the steps in their lives, just like how have different kinds of relationships

and that I don't know, like I don't always know the right way to do things. I, you know, when I got sober, my world was, my world is really small. You know, I was 21 when I got here. I had like, I was really afraid. I didn't think that I was ever going to be anything. You know, I didn't think that I was going to make it to 25. I mean, I didn't think that I was going to see my 25th birthday and coming in here and working the steps and then actually applying,

actually applying them to my life, you know, has really has really opened me up. And it's

it's given me the ability now to hear what other people have to say. And my world just keeps getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And these questions really help that

am I willing to help a newcomer go to any lengths his length not mine to stay sober? And this is a great question. And I'll end with this. It's just I, again, it goes back to this idea of being autonomous and, you know, unity and just really letting, letting everyone in the world have their own experience.

You know, I mean, that's what makes this planet so interesting is that everyone can do things however they want and that I don't have to be in there like always like meddling and like trying to fix everything and telling everybody how smart I am and how much I know. And, you know, all this. And this has been a really good one for me in Berlin because I showed up and I'm, I'm one of the youngest people in a, a there with the most time sober. And it's like really fucking weird, you know, and people are looking at me like, Oh, wow. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, like we're all in this together. Like it's not, you know, there's no whatever. I don't really know anything.

But the truth is I have experience, you know, United States over for a while and I have a really amazing life today. And as a result of showing up here and doing these things, listening, really listening to my fellows, not like bad mouthing a a not talking shit about other meetings, you know, that I don't think are cool. It's like I just, I just show up and and pay attention and try and get the most out of my experience here. So I am really, really psyched about this. If anyone wants to see these questions, some of them are really intense and really amazing.

Come talk to me after the meeting. Thanks.

Thank you guys.

The meeting is now open for question and answer or comments. We ask that you limit your share to three minutes. Question. A welcome from the floor, but please come up in the front if you're going to share. Who would like to begin

repeat the question. Anonymity is a spiritual tool. Is that what you said? Principle. Yeah. What does that mean? Or

yeah,

I have something on that.

Hey, how I understand that part of of 2012 is that I don't I'm not a hero, I'm not a guru or anything like that in a I'm just an A member. And my experience is that I am one of the founders of the men's meeting that I go to. I'm one of the guys with most overtime, which means that I'm cause have want some kind of a status there at the meeting. But I really, when people try to put me on a pedestal, I try to

as fast as I can because I don't want to be there. And one of the greatest things that I love about the meeting is that you. I don't get that respect. I don't get that because I'm just a jiagass Jack the rest of us. And I don't want to be up there on that pedestal as some kind of a guru. And it's really important for me to get down on on just being a a member at the group.

And

how can I say it's, it's yeah, it's actually, it's just, you know, just to be a member is really important for me. That's my I don't know if that's what you talk about. That's what I got out of questions is, is that I don't want to be grew. And I mean, I'm a guy with some experience, but but but not nothing more, nothing less than that.

I think what you said was really good. And I think about, I guess I think about that in a lot of different ways. One is I can

look, look at my behavior in AAA and kind of what I mentioned before, Am I like, am I bringing harmony to the meetings? Am I going around like talking crap about other people's behavior or judging people? And like, what am I bringing to the meeting, you know, and what am I willing to do for the meeting? And, and what am I willing to do and not get a pat on the back? You know what I mean? Am I showing up to a, a expecting like a fucking reward, you know, for like, oh, look how many people I sponsor and look at all the service I do. And like,

you know, where's like my kudos. And that's kind of how I think about it. It's like, it's not really, like you said, it's not really about being a guru or getting to that status or getting like some prize. You know, it's like we're doing this because it saves our lives, you know, I mean, that's that's why we're all here, you know, because we were dying and we wanted to wake up. So

my ego, one of you

alcoholic, I'm from Milan you know, we recently I, I broke a tradition and everyone

really pissed off because I sent an invitation to a meeting through Facebook messaging instead of instead of private emails or something. Everyone got really pissed off and of course myself trying to defend myself on this thing. I talked about anonymity and it doesn't talk anything about we don't use our name because we want to be a secret society. The reason it talks about in the 12th tradition, if you're reading the 12th tradition, is it talks about the fact that we keep ourselves secret and we keep our identities secret like Superman does, you know, because

that's part of the spiritual process, you know, because we're not looking for the acclaim because we're doing it. That's that's the point of it, you know, and, and Doctor Bob actually talked about the second part of this. This is the same tradition is that

we are not so anonymous that other people can't find us. A lot of people, you know, forget this. And especially where I'm from, it a is not a big thing. A is not popular in in northern Italy. And so a lot of people are really scared to let other people know who they are, you know, and I think that anonymity, you know, when it's appropriate, can, you know, should be broken. And that's what that's what I think the other part of this is we keep ourselves the anonymity part just to practice the spiritual outside of the program. It doesn't have anything to do with being so secret that nobody ever

about us, you know, because we might drink if someone finds out our name. You know, it has to do with the things that we're trying to do, the principles we're trying to practice. It's really not important if we give our neighbor because we're trying to just live as you know, the agent that it talks about, the children that talked about.

Welcome to my colleague from Frankfurt and you're selfishness is the root of my troubles. I've just shared in the other meetings, but I'll I'm just very briefly share about my experience in the traditions have been invaluable in my in my work life. I remember tradition 10 not expressing opinions. I mean, if anyone, if anyone has tried not to express an opinion, even for a day without being asked, it's, it's a tough deal for someone like me.

We had it. I, I, I went from here, you know,

zero to hero very quickly and had a beautiful job. And it's not that, you know, we was in this department helping people get jobs that were disabled and they had another department. And it's not that, you know, I just, I just felt I needed to tell them what they were doing wrong, you know, and, and then my sponsor would point out with tradition for their autonomous, they can do exactly what the hell they like in this department, you know, even though I think I'm doing it for a good motive. And even in the business meetings, you know, there would be

lots of people in there that would think this is a great idea. I think that's terrible, but I was able to lay aside what I thought and just go along with it within the business meeting.

OK, so and also, you know, with this anonymity that we're talking about in the,

it's for me, it's like I don't want to be important in in my personal life or in AAI don't want to be a a celebrity. I don't want to seek the attention of other people in order to make myself feel better.

That's what it kind of means to me. My ego is, is the thing that will kill me. I mean, even up here is a dangerous thing for me. You know, I have to do a lot of frontline work with, with newcomers in order to be able to not, not be above. But yeah. And, and lastly on tradition 5, having one primary purpose, you know, we, we help people find jobs. But then I thought it'd be a great idea if we help them with education or we help them with this or that or the other. And that just went horribly wrong. You know, in in my work

tradition 7 being fully self supporting. I try and support myself and those around me just as a principal. You know, when I was drinking, I would just take from anybody.

So it's

I find a immense spiritual significance in in the traditions in their application into my life and anything that I've I've learned was being through through intergroup really and and seeing them applying and good sponsorship and I'll leave it there. Thanks.

Matthew are going to share, so I'll keep it brief. But when you said about

how you doing good, awesome. I'm doing good too with that 7th tradition stuff. I, I, I had a couple of really, really wealthy friends, one's from San Francisco and he's got lots of cash and he'd come and visit me in Melbourne on a regular basis and we go out for dinner and it would be like, well, hang on, you got lots of cash. So you should be taking me out to somewhere really nice with everybody, have like a really nice meal

and there'll be all this head fuck going on in my head about, well, do I offer to pay or do I take somewhere really cheap or do I encourage him to go somewhere really expensive but and expect him to pay all what? And then my sponsor said, Matt, you got to be self supporting in all your relationships.

And it was the same with my brother who's doing very successfully. You know what, they may have cash, more cash than me. That doesn't matter when it comes to going out for dinner. If I'm going out to a restaurant, I should expect to be able to pay my own way. If someone offers, that's different. But I should never expect. And it took so much pressure off being going out for dinner. And now when it comes over to Melbourne, I choose to go somewhere that I can afford to pay my own way at and that's it, no debate. And I can actually enjoy his company and his friendship,

not obsess about getting something out of his wallet. Thanks for asking the ship. Thank you.

My name is Ashley, I'm an alcoholic. Hi, I hope you can hear me. But thank you both for sharing on the topic. And I'd just like to add that before I could apply any traditions to my life, I first had to learn how to apply them in the group. And I think that a lot of people in sponsorship or home groups in general sort of forget maybe to bring up the tradition. And so I'm sharing in hopes of encouraging some people who haven't worked the traditions that are outlined in the 12:00 and 12:00. And also online, there's some great

literature available on that and to suggest maybe that your sponsor help you go through the traditions or that your group do a checklist about how is the Home group functioning? And it was for me by doing that on my own first in a a that I could then go out and apply them in my life. And it's been invaluable in both arenas, you know, both as an A, a member to learn how to function in the fellowship because that really saves me in the long run. Like the steps first get me sober. But if I'm unable

function in my a A group, I feel uncomfortable there. And if I start to feel uncomfortable in a A, I'm going to start to work myself out. My disease will start to isolate myself again. And so it's important for me to learn those tips about how do I stay, you know, one among many. How do I help support the newcomer and bring people into my group? How am IA productive member of this Society of Alcoholics Anonymous? Do I participate? Do I give back or do I just take everything?

And by practicing there in that safe place where I can make as many mistakes as I want, then I can learn how to do that at work and my family and all these other places that are important. But if I didn't apply it first at the group, I wouldn't be able to do it in these other ways that were talked about today. But I'm very grateful that I had a sponsor that was involved with service work early on and brought me in to that.

And I think that this is a topic that definitely could be talked about more.

And that for anybody that doesn't know, the fellowship that was given to us by the 1st A as has three legacies. There's the steps, the traditions, and the concepts. There's 12 of each of them. And a lot of people I don't think even know that. And those are the three things that our whole society stands on. And as members, we're responsible to carry that on. And especially as young people, this legacy has been passed to us by the, you know, service conference. And we need to be educated and be able to

talk to our sponsors and our sponsors and our home groups about how to keep the fellowship alive. Because if we don't do that, drunks will die. So thanks for all being here today.

I'm Brendan. I'm an alcoholic.

Thank you guys very much for sharing. I guess just a couple things. My experience with the traditions is admittedly really limited, but I'm glad that you just said something about

about applying the that tradition checklist to the group. I guess that's kind of like the one area that I have had some experience. I was in my Home group used to be this men's group that sounds similar to yours from what you said. A lot of strong personalities, you know, and, and what we do is we call it a group inventory and there's different ways of doing it, but kind of the most popular where I'm from and the one that we did in that Home group was

we just took the traditions checklist and we just applied those things all to our group. And I guess I just want to share my experiences like with those guys, you know, they have a lot of strong personalities and I didn't agree with, you know, a lot of them. And and that's not the point, but it would have been, it would have been a really different scene if we had tried to take a group inventory and tried to, you know, there was conflict. You know, they especially with that group, like,

you know, the conflict was just bubbling over the top by the time we took a group inventory. And if we didn't use, it would have been so different if we didn't use

the checklist, if we just talked the way that, you know, if we just shared our opinions the way that we thought we should would have been chaos. Like people would have literally been punching each other in the face. And it's a very different. It was just pretty amazing to see like when we're answering those questions to take the focus in a completely different direction than it would have been if we were just, you know, they're arguing by ourselves.

And it, and it one thing it does is sort of separates for a lot of people what they need to go in inventory themselves. You know what I mean?

Because that was, you know, a lot of people were bringing stuff into the group discussion that really wasn't about the group. It was really about their own inventory that they needed to do.

And it was a pretty,

I don't know what the word is not humiliating, but it was really humbling

experience. It could be humiliating sometimes, but it really made these guys come together in this way. That was, you know, just like everything about AA. It's like it would never have happened otherwise, you know what I mean? It would have been a, it would have been a brawl without, you know, the steps and the traditions. And I guess the only other thing I thought to say was about anonymity. I just wanted to fill in one kind of gap, which is just, you know, sometimes you see like celebrities, they get sober on celebrity rehab or whatever the hell and they're going on Conan and talking about,

you know, talking about being sober and stuff. And I just, you know, was gonna throw that in there too. That's not an issue as much maybe, but that's also an issue with anonymity is not, you know, not going out into the public sphere and just telling your opinion about what a a is and stuff. And it is attraction, not promotion. Another thing real briefly, and I'll end is, you know, we have cooperation with the professional community and we have public information and there's like a way to go about that

so that we make a accessible and that's kind of how a is

my understanding is kind of always worked is like through those people where that's kind of where we get some of the drunks from the ones that don't come right to the meeting. We just make that information, you know, available to the professional community, the doctors and stuff that have drunks, you know, in, you know,

in the hospital. And so that's about all I have. Thanks.

I also think that is the sponsor which responsibility to take responses through the positions. I mean, for me that's

that I do that as a sponsor, sit down with my sponsors and we confusion. Actually at the moment we are doing it as a group because I had responses that I forgot about doing it and that we just sit out and we opened up the group and we were just trying to sit down once a month and look at positions. I would really encourage that. It's a lot of fun. And as a, as a group people, what we do as a group is at the

at our group conscious meeting, we have an open group conscious meeting. We meet before once a month before before meeting, everybody can come and share and and and and We have one person told me for 5 minutes about a position.

No discussion, just one person because you know,

but you know, just to get a bit of of information into the group of our professions because we talk step, step steps all the time. We protect the person. Just want to share that. Thanks. My name is Pele and I'm an alcoholic.

I just came from the meeting resting on on our laurels, and

I just had to say that

I have to keep working in the program. I have to work in the program again really intensely.

Tradition is my favorite. Actually, they are they are helping a lot in in in my sobriety. Outside of the a a inside. There's so much so many other take control of the situation. Kind of that's my experience in the rooms outside when I'm in charge of my life.

I can I've used it a lot and

like you said, David, like the 7th tradition be self supporting and the 12th tradition not to to about the anonymity is the spiritual foundation is for me as meaning that I'm not talking bullshit about anyone else is not in the room, which I'm pretty good at. I used to be at least and now I'm through the tradition. I know like I shouldn't do that wrong to do it. And my sponsor

went through the tradition with me and he also explained what it could mean in the life outside of AA. There is more an open case. You can kind of freestyle, you can apply it to a situation when how you're actually, you know, it's up to you to do it. But it's for me, it's been really, really good to to have to yeah, to have it with me in life outside. And then I'm I'm in a relationship since a year and a half.

And I don't know what will happen if I didn't have the tradition with me. Well, I know what would happen and I wouldn't be that beautiful as it is today, you know, so and, and also which is I often go to, there's a lot of meetings in Stockholm and there's the topic meeting with the traditions. And kind of sad to hear, you know, when people share about, well, I don't know the tradition that well.