The North Scottsdale speaker meeting in Scottsdale, AZ

Paul Fisher, Alcoholic.

Wow, look at all of you. We clean up good, don't we?

Look at the person next to you.

This person is a liar, cheating, A thief.

Yeah, I mean, nice. Nice to meet you.

This person lied, cheated, steal, deceived, had sex with people they're not supposed to,

and we're all here sober. How many people in this room are sober tonight?

Is this beautiful or why is this amazing?

It absolutely amazes me that we're sober and that we're here tonight together,

celebrating one more day of sobriety. Can you imagine what this valley would be like if we all drank right now?

I don't think they have enough jail space. I really don't. I'd like to thank Stephanie and Colleen

and the committee for asking me to come out here. It's a pleasure and an honor to be anywhere. It's a pleasure and honor to be speaking in a meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous.

I'm just filled with gratitude right now. I'm just so thankful

that I don't have the compulsion to drink anymore and it wasn't that way for a really long time.

I haven't found as a result of

rooms like this having a relationship with a God of my understanding, the 12 steps and good sponsorship and a little effort on my part. I haven't found it necessary to take a drink, or a drug for that matter, for 23 years since August 26th, 1981.

In a little lesson. Well, what's today's date?

That's what, the ninth? Yeah. No, Next month will be 24 years. What a miracle. That's it. You know, I just, I just caught myself when I said didn't find it necessary. That's that's an interesting expression, isn't it? Didn't find it necessary to take a drink. Reminds me of an experience a friend of mine had. He was at this meeting and this guy next to him stood up and said I haven't found it necessary to have a drink in 25 years. And the guy wreaked of alcohol.

He turned to the guy said but you're drunk, He said. Yeah, but it wasn't necessary.

And that's what I've experienced in these rooms.

What I've experienced in these rooms. I don't have to live the way that I used to live before I came into into Alcoholics Anonymous. I simply don't. I no longer have conversations with Cap'n Crunch in the grocery store. It just doesn't happen. And I'm sure there are a few within here that, you know, you've had the same experience. You don't have to worry about the CIA anymore. I used to. I was convinced that they had microphones in my teeth

and see, see, that's why I couldn't sleep because I fell asleep. They were going to sneak in and take my body parts.

I don't have to think. I don't. I don't. I don't live that way anymore. I don't have conversations with Cap'n Crunch. My life is completely different.

It's been reported to me by other people that I'm simply not the same person as it was when I walked into these rooms 23 years ago.

I'd like to be able to stand up here and tell you that

when I first came into Alcoholics Anonymous, I stopped drinking and that was not the case. What happened in my case was at the ripe age of 18, I was sentenced to 13 years in Arizona State Prison

for narcotic related offenses

and that's where I was exposed to alcoholic synonymous for the first time. I went to my first meeting in the penitentiary

at the age of 19. Now to give you an idea what it's like to go to an AAA meeting

for a 19 year old, try to think like a 19 year old for a minute.

See, at that age, everybody in the they would bring people in from the free world for the meetings,

and everybody in the meeting was at least 30. Now, when you're 19, that's really old.

OK, that's really old. They even had, my God, they even had people in there that were 40 and 50.

Yeah, that's old. When you're 19, that's pretty darn old. And I remember looking around the room thinking, geez man, if I was a little like, quit drinking too,

into the road. No more fun. No more fun. What I did what out of that 13 year sentence, I ended up serving five years. And that five year period I went to a lot of meetings inside the prison. I did not stay sober. I would read the book and it made no sense to me. I would get back to my cell and I retry to reread what you read in the meeting and I throw it across the room. It made absolutely no sense. It was like Greek. I just simply couldn't understand it. I got out of prison for the next 7 years. I bounced inside, in and out of alcohol,

Thomas, and was unable stay sober.

And I remember thinking, you know, this, this thing isn't going to work for me. See, I was convinced that it would work for you because I saw I could see it in your faces. I could see in the way you smiled and the way you hugged each other and the way you were enjoying life. You seem to be having fun. And I made one decision when I saw that. And the decision was, I want absolutely, absolutely nothing to do with it because I couldn't relate to being joyful and not drinking. See, I was afraid

to drink and I was afraid to not drink.

I couldn't imagine what it would be like to be without alcohol and I couldn't imagine what would be like to continue living the way I was. And in that 12 year period, the five years inside the penitentiary is 7 years out here going to meetings.

I heard people talk about go to meetings, go to meetings, go to meetings. You see, I was convinced at one point that you had secret meetings

and I wasn't invited, OK? I was given the front meeting, OK, But I wasn't given the meeting that was behind the closed door where the real secrets to staying sober were being told, because everything you said in the room didn't make any sense to me. It was like Greek I I couldn't understand what? I couldn't understand what you were talking about. Now, in that period of time, I went to a lot of meetings and I did a lot of fellowship and Alcoholics Anonymous,

meaning I want to round up conventions,

softball games, dances and things of that nature. Now, there were a couple of minor details that I overlooked it. I really didn't think that were that important in my world.

One of them was the 12 steps.

I took the steps right off the wall. I thought, well, that's how you heard you say take the steps. So I read him. I said I took him.

That's what I thought you meant. I didn't get a sponsor.

See, I suffer from alcoholism, not alcohol WASM.

And we have many acronyms for that ISM and alcoholism. And probably the one that I suffered from the most is I sponsor myself

and I've had periods in my current sobriety where I have sponsored myself. And you know what I learned about that sponsor?

He's an idiot.

He gave me some really bad advice.

What I discovered is that it doesn't work. Now you see, here's what I love about Alcoholics Anonymous. I'm one of those Alcoholics in here who believes he has not changed anything in the entire time I've been sober. I do not believe I've changed anything, but rather what's happened is Alcoholics Anonymous as it provided an environment or change can occur. Because if I was capable of making all those changes that were necessary for me to stay sober, to get sober, how would have done it a long time ago.

And it wasn't until this last time I came back into A in 1981. Now be aware, I did not come back to a a back in 81 because you had great Donuts, good looking women and great coffee. That's not why I came in here. It's been my experience that in the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous, we all have a couple of things in common. Every single one of this

one is that there is loss of control and that there is suffering.

Now for the newcomer, tonight I'm going to ask you to please not listen to the drama of my story because the drama of my drinking experience is not what makes me an alcoholic. See, I didn't understand that in that 12 years because I heard people talking about drama, all the drama that happened in their lives. And I thought, well, since I didn't experience that and I didn't experience that, I must not be an alcoholic. And it wasn't until this last time when I came in, I didn't come in by by choice.

It was strongly suggested that I come back to a A. What basically happened was in a blackout one night I assaulted 3 police officers.

Now in the state of Arizona, they have a statute that if you are a convicted ex offender, meaning you're a felony, you've already done time and you committed violent act against any law enforcement official. It's a flat 25 years. So I was facing 25 years in the penitentiary. I was 31 years old.

I weighed 130 lbs. That's after I put on a little bit of weight. I thought I was looking pretty good.

That's how deluded I was. And my attorney said you might want to consider going back to a A before we go to court, you know, And that's what I did. So you see, I didn't come back to Alcoholics Anonymously gets over. So if there's anybody here tonight and you're not sure if you're an alcoholic and you're not sure if you want to stay sober, I'm glad you're here because it has been my experience. It doesn't matter what brings us into these rooms.

It does not matter. That was my personal experience and I've seen it again, again and again.

So I came into these rooms and for the first time I got hooked up with someone who understood this cookbook. Do any of you have this cookbook here? It's called the A Big Book. Did you know it was a cookbook? That's what it is. It's a cookbook. I didn't know that either in that first 12 years, bouncing it out. I didn't know it was a cookbook. See, a cookbook has a recipe, and if I follow a recipe as it's outlined in the book, I'll get a cert. I'll get the same outcome that the authors talk about in this book. I never knew that,

and basically what happened was this sponsor of mine, which I'd never had before. He sat me down and we went through the book. He did. He did not have me do any writing on my first step. He simply asked me a few basic questions. He took me into the book. He took statements in the book and turned them into questions. He asked me simple questions like, did you experience the phenomena of craving for alcohol when you put alcohol in your body?

I remember saying

no, I never craved alcohol, I just wanted more.

Well, see, that's what a craving is. What I learned as a result of going through this book with this guy

is that when I put alcohol in my body, something bodily happens to me that doesn't happen to the non alcoholic. It's called the phenomena of craving. I put alcohol in my body. I crave more. I can't stop. Before the the phenomena craving, there's mental obsession. I had an abnormal reaction as described in Doctor Silkworth's section of the book.

Don't know where he talks about the abnormal reaction.

I had an abnormal reaction whenever I drank.

I mean, Alcoholics are the only people I know who are who get orgasmic when they find their car.

My car

I know of no non alcoholic who could stand out gas making excited because they find their car. I was so excited it would take me I would come to not knowing where I was. However I did have a funny suspicion that it was a woman's house because of the decor. Or at least I hope it was a woman's house because I am a heterosexual. I know I'm not homophobic OK, but the point is I would I would come to

and have absolutely no recall of where my car was.

None,

you know, and not even having a clue and then finding it and getting so excited about it. Now that's not an abnormal reaction. That's what I found out.

That's not an abnormal reaction. Peeing in my pants is not an abnormal reaction. Getting a DUI is not an abnormal reaction. Wrecking my car is not an abnormal reaction. Getting divorced because of my drinking is not an abnormal reaction

because my sponsor pointed out to me. Look at the word reaction. Re comes from the Latin word meaning to return to. So what did I do after the consequence? I would drink again.

That's abnormal. So when I salted those three police officers, they didn't take,

they didn't favor that too much. So we had a little bit of a workout

and there was a little physical damage. At the time. I almost lost my left eye because I had a bad habit of running into night sticks whenever I would drink,

so I had like 26 stitches over my left eye. The entire left side on my face is one big scab. I had three broken ribs and I come to in jail not having a clue what had happened. No recall because I was a blackout drinker. I remember my sponsor asking me,

do you remember having blackouts when you drank? I said. I don't remember any

or as I couldn't remember I was a blackout drinker. I just don't recall. I just don't remember what I did,

and I remember coming to in that jail and standing before the judge and the judge announcing what the charges are, and I thought there's some mistake here. That's not me, I don't do that. Those sort of things. That's not me. That is who I am. That is who I am. I go through a personality change when I drink. But what I discovered in that first step, you see, is my drama had absolutely nothing to do with me being an alcoholic. It had to do with experiencing the phenomena, craving, mental obsession, loss and control, and an abnormal reaction.

That's what separates me from the non alcoholic. I have since had the opportunity to be with non Alcoholics in drinking situations.

I mean, a number of years ago I was out at this event with some colleagues

and one of them ordered a drink. They ordered the second drink and they took a cup of sips out of it. And then they put it down and pushed it away. And I could, I could hear them saying, I better stop. I'm starting to feel it.

Do you know what that's called? That's called alcohol abuse. That's what that is. I can't relate to that. Let's start to, I'm starting to feel it. Let's go. That's who I am. Because once I put the alcohol in my body, I cannot control what is going to happen to me, nor can I control what I'm going to do when I'm experiencing the mental obsession to drink. See, I never knew that.

I also did not know that I had lost the power to choose whether I will or will not drink.

The authors clearly outline it in the book

that we have lost the power to choose whether we will or will not drink. You see, if I had the power to choose to not drink, I would have exercised that power a long time ago. What I've since discovered as a result of going through those steps is that Alcoholics Anonymous is not for people who have power, It's for people who don't have any power.

Another thing I love about Alcoholics Anonymous is that it gives hope to the hopeless because that's who I was. I was completely hopeless when I came in here because as a result of going to meetings in that 12 year period, going to lots of meetings and still not being able to say so, we're still not being able to get this thing. The one thing that I feared the most was that it was not going to work for me,

was not going to work.

So you see, consequently, I was skeptical, I was doubtful, and I was resistive.

So the first time I went through those, through those steps, I went through them with one motive only in mind, and it was not to stay sober. It was to prove. You see, I was so convinced that they would not work that I was going to prove to all of you that they don't work.

So when my sponsor asked him if I was willing to go through them, I said yes. The reason? Because I wanted to prove to you that they don't work,

I was determined to do that. Go through all 12 steps. Then I could turn around and say, see, they don't work. This program does not work. Here's what I discovered. Alcoholics Anonymous doesn't work.

It's not supposed to.

I'm supposed to work. It's not supposed to work for me. What I learned from that experience was this. Because by the time I got to step 12, something magical happened. All of a sudden I wanted to be sober.

All of a sudden I wanted to go to meetings. All of a sudden I wanted my life to improve. All of a sudden I had hope were before I had none. What that experience taught me was this. That it doesn't matter how skeptical or doubtful or resistive I am, that if I am honest and willing to take the action, that the spiritual principles outlined in those steps are guaranteed to work in my life.

It's kind of like going to the gym and lifting a weight and saying this isn't going to work, this isn't going to work. But as long as I continue to exercise that spiritual muscle,

which I never knew I even had. I knew about physical muscles, but I never knew about spiritual muscles. And you see, that's what the principles and those steps do for me. They show me how to exercise my spiritual muscles so that I can become spiritually fit.

See that sponsor of mine, he understood once we got to that through that first step and he we discovered that I'm the real alcoholic that they talk about on page 21. I'm not the moderate drinker who can take it or leave it. I'm not the hard drinker. This is the person given sufficient reason can either stop or moderate.

So I have lots of sufficient reason. I have lots of warnings from physicians. I had a previous wife who said you need to stop drinking or I'm out of here. And I said, well, where do you want to move

that? Because you see, drinking meant more than air itself to me. I wasn't going to let anybody get in the way of my drinking. That's not me. I'm the real alcoholic, you scribe on page 21.

This is the person, when they begin to drink, they lose all control, and that was me. So as a result of finding out who I was then he saw the necessity getting me through the steps very quickly. He took me through the steps in about four weeks.

Four weeks he took me. Basically, he took me through the steps as the old timers did it in the 1940s in the beginning of Alcoholics Anonymous.

This has been my experience. I cannot go through the steps too quickly, but I can go through them too slowly.

See, I don't have the power to keep myself sober. See, I'm not the person that you can say

go to meetings and don't drink in between. That doesn't work for me because I'm the real alcoholic.

Don't tell me to put the plug in the jug because I'm not capable of doing that. I don't have the power. That's what the step work pointed out to me. I don't have the power to not drink.

So as a result of that, I had what I like to call a first step experience. See, the steps are not to be understood. That's been my experience. The steps are not to be understood. The steps are to be experienced. If it's to be experienced, that means there's going to be some emotion. I'm going to feel some things. And I don't know about the rest of you, but you see, I couldn't afford to feel anything when I was out there drinking.

Because I had harmed a lot of people. I was,

I was an inhumane person,

so I had a lot of guilt and Shamu and I couldn't afford to let myself feel any of that. But you see, as a result of going through the steps, I had to feel that because by the time I got done with the first step, I had terror,

which was the appropriate experience to have.

Because once it finally sunk in between my head and my gut that there was absolutely nothing I can do to keep myself sober on my power, I became afraid. That experience, what it did for me was it promoted a desire to seek power, because without that experience, there's no desire to seek power in the in the remaining steps. So you see, the first step is not an intellectual exercise for me. It simply isn't.

Now the remaining steps.

I got to step two and three, and here's where I ran into some difficulty

because I was, you know, I grew up in a pearly art of punishment.

So when I heard the word God, I didn't hear God.

I heard a punishing God concept that he was out to get me. And then my sponsor sat me down and he pointed out that I didn't have to live with the concept that I was taught as a child, that I could come up with my own concept of God, of my own design.

That was amazing to discover that

that Alcoholics Anonymous afforded me the autonomy to choose a God of my own understanding,

that this God didn't have to be vindictive,

punitive, angry. I no longer had to live with the expression. He's a, he's a what's the expression? He's a God fearing man.

Think about that expression. How is a God fearing man?

Well, not really what it really was, an early sobriety of those stark raving sober.

At least that's what my friends told me.

So once I discovered that I could

I could choose a God of my owner's own understanding and let go of that old concept,

it enabled me to move forward and do the remaining steps. Now the first nominated for step. Not with the person I'm talking about now,

but you see, when I first came in day eight, I didn't know how to go about getting a sponsor. And I heard this one guy talk

and he had seven first birthdays.

So I figured he'd be the he'd be the ideal person to have for a sponsor. He would know how not to do it, right. I didn't know anything about it. And other than what I heard him saying meetings, he didn't give me any instruction on how to how to do the inventory. He just said go do some writing. According to the book. He didn't tell me how to do it. So I went and did the writing the best I could. And I go over to his house to do the inventory. And I'm really nervous and I got to go to the mind if I use your bathroom. And he said sure. So I go in, I use his bathroom and I walked him to his bathroom. Now

this person is supposed to be my sponsor. This is somebody I'm going to supposed to look up to and I go into his bathroom

and without exaggeration every single inch of the walls and ceiling was covered with pornography

and he had a night side table next to the toilet with a 24 hour book

said. Isn't this an interesting picture?

So I go ahead and take my PE because I'm really nervous about doing this first step, and I go back in on the living room in about a minute or two later he comes out completely naked.

He says we're going to get down to the naked truth. And I said I don't think so,

so I left.

So you see, I had a little bit of problem with trusting sponsors.

You know, that you guys were going to get naked on me and get down to the naked truth in that way. I thought not, not this kid.

Of course I start talking no timers and I explained it till they said no we don't do it that way.

No, I said. Can you guarantee me you won't take off your clothes?

I can guarantee that. I can guarantee that.

So then we proceeded through the steps

and then

then we get up to step 9.

That was a really difficult step for me because, you know, I had harmed a lot of people. OK, Now about this time my sentencing comes up from the from the case I had acquired from the Salting Mills police officers. So I ended up going to

sentencing. Now prior to this time, see I was convinced there was number way I'm going to get out of this deal

because the trial didn't look very good. I knew people in Canada, I knew people in Mexico, and I thought I should just leave.

And every time I call my sponsor and ask him what should I do, what should I do, he would tell me the same three things. Every time I called him, he would say ask God for help, go to a meeting and help another person. Click. You don't hear much of that these days, but trust me, back then that's what they did. They would get these, my sponsor did. He would give me instruction and he would hang up on me. So like an idiot, I would do what he said.

I would ask God for help. I would go to a meeting and I would try to help another person

in the sensing date kept getting closer and closer. So finally I just resigned the idea. I'm probably going to do 25 years. And you know, of course, the way he pointed out to me was, he said, well, looking at this way, you'll be able to carry a message of hope,

the suffering alcoholic inside the prison.

Well, that's a promising proposition,

but you see now it was too late to go, it's too late to run.

Sentencing date was on top of me. So he goes to, he goes with me, and I get before that judge and this guy starts asking me some really weird questions.

Really weird. He says, I understand you have a drinking problem. I said yeah,

He said, I understand you also have a drug problem. Yeah, what are you doing about that? And I said, well, I'm going to Alcoholics Anonymous.

He said, I understand they have sponsors in that program. Yeah, one of those, I said, yeah, he's right here. He said, I also understand that they have 12 steps in that program. Are you doing those? I said, yeah. He said, that's wonderful. He reduced it to

a Sorry member for get this backwards Class 3 which is higher class three. Class six Class 6 is higher class three. He reduced it to a It was I think it was about a class 6 felony. Gave me one year unsupervised probation.

I had to replace three uniforms. I had to pay some hospital bills for the officers. I had to replace one pair of boots

because somehow my teeth got stuck on the boots during the scuffle

and and broke the officer's toe in the scuffle.

Alcoholics have strong appetites. OK.

And I walked out of that courtroom

in shock. Of course as I'm leaving the judge says don't ever come before me again

and I go outside and I turn to my sponsor. I said what the F just happened?

He said. There's a higher court operating here. It wasn't up to the judge, it was up to God.

Apparently, God has another purpose for you to carry the message of hope to the suffering alcoholic out here on the streets.

I mean, for the first time in my life, I got a glimpse that there was something operating my life that was larger than me that I didn't even have trust in. See, I understood the difference between faith and trust because faith is just knowing something is there.

But to turn my life over to it,

to its design and direction, was another story, and I didn't trust that. So I walked away from that experience having a glimpse that there is a power operating

in my life that's greater than me, regardless of what I think or believe about it. And everything went well for a while. But like so many of us,

or at least I did, I became complacent.

I had one of those magical disappearing glove boxes. Some of you may have one of those. That's where you throw traffic tickets in. They're supposed to disappear.

So I kept getting these traffic tickets in these parking tickets, and I kept tossing them in there. So we come back around doing the steps again and I told him about these and he said, well,

if you want to stay sober, you're going to have to take care of this because if you don't, you're probably you're probably not going to stay sober.

So through a series of phone calls, I discovered that I had a couple warrants off of my arrest. So here I am a sober member of a A and I've got some arrest warrants out for me. So I made some more phone calls and I made an appointment with some judge. I don't remember the guy's name, but I made an appointment to go down there. So if I could set up a payment plan to take care of these tickets. So I'm out in the waiting room waiting to see this judge and I'm thinking about what I can tell him. And here's what I plan to tell him. I plan to say, Your Honor,

I've been busy.

I'm so busy helping other Alcoholics. I'm taking them to Lark and I'm taking them to meetings and I'm such, my goodness knows no bounds, you know. And I'm I'm doing all these wonderful humanitarian acts for the suffering alcoholic

secretary comes out and says the judge will see you now. And I go into the judge's office and it's the sentencing judge.

And I remember what he said last time I saw him. You said don't ever come before me again.

So we go in there and he says, so what's the deal on these tickets? What fell out of my mouth was I've been irresponsible.

Then he asked me what would you like to do? I said I'd like to set up a payment plan if I can. Then he asked me how much I would like to pay. I said well I can afford 50 bucks a month, is that OK? You see? Sure, that's fine, he said. By the way, you still going to those meetings? He started asking me those weird questions again. Are you still

no steps? Yeah, that's wonderful. Don't ever come before me again.

So I leave.

I go on my work merry way. Somewhere down the road, four or five months later, I had to work late one night.

The 6:00 PM rush hour meeting. Crossroads used to be my Home group back then, and it was a speaker's meeting that night. That's about 2025 minutes late. And I walk into the room and studying it, standing up at the podium, sharing his experience, strength and hope with that judge.

So see what that is one more time. I'm, I'm constantly reminded in these rooms that there's a power greater than me operating in my life. I don't have the ability to bring that about. I simply don't. Also, at that time in my life, I'm having some emotional difficulty. You know what that means when an alcoholic says that, don't you? It means it means they're in a relationship.

That's all it means. I'm having emotional difficulty. What does it mean? She's not doing what I want her to do. That's all it needs.

I didn't know it at the time,

and I had become so despondent at that time that I wasn't convinced that God was going to be there for me one more time.

So I decided to give God a test.

I wanted to test His trust in his faith

because that that's what I heard you guys say in meetings. All you have to do is ask.

Just ask and God will be there.

So that's what I did. This was my plan. I went to a grocery store and my plan was I was going to take this cart and I was going to push it up and down every aisle

until I got all the way over the liquor department and buy me a bottle of Jack Daniels. And I was going to give God a chance

to give me a sign that He was going to help me through this difficult time.

So I went down one aisle and I come around the corner and lo and behold, guess who I run into? A friend from Alcoholics Anonymous,

he says, hey, what are you doing?

I'm not going to tell him. I can't afford to tell you the truth because I'm afraid of what you'll think of me. I don't want you to know I don't trust God.

So we chatted for a moment. He went his way. I want mine. I pushed my cart along and got to thinking. That is really cool. God. I tell you what, God,

if you will just give me one more sign,

then I'll leave this grocery store and I won't drink.

I go down a couple aisles, I come around the corner and lo and behold, I run into another member of Alcoholics Anonymous.

He comes up and says, hey, what are you doing?

Told me my little spiel that which wasn't the truth.

We got done with our conversation. I pushed my cart along and I'm thinking, God, that is really cool. You gave me two signs.

I'll tell you what, God, if you will just give me one more,

I have trust that you're going to help me through this difficult time. And I took my cart and I pushed it up, down every aisle and nobody showed up. And I picked up a bottle of Jack Daniels

and I got in the checkout line and there's only one person before me and they've only got 1 item. Put my bottle up on the belt.

Just about that time, there's a tap on my shoulder and I turn around. There's another friend of Alcoholics Anonymous,

and I just lost it. I started to weep. When I say weep, I don't mean cry. I mean, the snot bubble

right there in the checkout aisle,

OK, I cried and died in that aisle. And he and I went out and we talked, you know, and he let me know that what I was experiencing was natural, normal, that it was not a reflection of me working a bad program in Alcoholics Anonymous. It was just simply a matter of not having the experience of trusting God on a consistent basis because I didn't know how to do that. See, I was under the delusion that through prayer I could have a relationship with a God of my understanding. But you see, by the time I got that eleven step, the big book clearly

pointed out to me as well as my sponsor that through prayer it was impossible to have a relationship with the God of my understanding. And This is why, because all relationships are based on two way communication.

Two way, not one way.

So if I'm going to have a relationship with my friend Matt here, that means I'm going to talk and then I'm going to listen.

If I do all the talking, that is not a relationship.

No wonder I had so much difficulty in my relationship with God because I was under the guise of having a relationship with God through prayer when I'm doing all the talking and no listening.

That's the same as Stephanie here inviting me to a party over at her house. She calls me on the phone, says come on over, we're having a party and I say great. And I hang up before I get directions on how to get there.

So what I discovered through the discipline of prayer and meditation that that was the only way I'm going to have a relationship with God,

not through prayer because I can't have it. At least that's been my experience. I have to have prayer and meditation. I need to be able to have dialogue with my God and be willing to listen to what my God has to say.

Now the thing, one of the things that really helped me a great deal was those ninth step amends.

I did not want to make one in particular. So the second time I come back around through the steps and this is still in my first year because I had a sponsor who believed that it was impossible for me to sustain myself physically on yesterday's food. See the hamburger I had yesterday is not going to sustain me today. So the inventory I did a year ago or six months ago is not going to sustain me today that I need new spiritual food on a daily basis. So I was, I was taught to go through the steps on a repeat on an annual basis,

maintain my spiritual conditions through the disciplines of 1011 and 12, and go back and revisit that's one through 9. Why? Because I'm not going to be able to uncover and reveal everything that needs to be uncovered that blocks me from this power in one inventory.

So coming back through the steps again, there was this one amends that I wasn't willing to make.

See, when I was out there drinking, I wanted to be a gangster. I wanted to be like a

I want to be like Dylan.

So I went out and in my Dillon days I robbed a Taco Bell.

That was my crime of the century.

Armed robbery of a Taco Bell. Big take. But anyway, the

at this point in my sobriety,

he pointed out to me, he said you don't make this amend and you're probably you will drink again.

Because something weird happened to me in these rooms. I started to develop a conscience, which means the things that I could get away with before, I can no longer get away with now,

because now I have a conscience. Now I have a spirit that's being developed through the practice of the 12 steps

and it'll eat my lunch. And if it eats my lunch, I have so much pain and suffering, I'll have to drink.

So in facing that, Amanda, I here's what's really weird about the situation is that at that point in time, I was more afraid of drinking than I was of going back to jail

because drinking terrified me because of who I am and what I do when I drink. So

so I did some prayer meditation on it and I go back to the Taco Bell with the money in hand and I'm terrified. I'm absolutely terrified because there's a good possibility I could go back to prison. So I walk in there and I ask of the manager and I explained to him that I had robbed this door back in such and such a date. And the very first thing out of his mouth is is he says, you know, I could call the police right now. I said, I'm aware of that. He said, why in the world are you doing this? And all I did was follow the instruction outlined in the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous. I told

truth. I said I'm a sober member of Alcoholics Anonymous and I have to go back and write every single wrong I've committed or I won't stay sober,

he said. I've never heard of such a thing, he said. Do all you people do this?