The Montana area 3rd step conference in Bozeman, MT

The Montana area 3rd step conference in Bozeman, MT

▶️ Play 🗣️ Matt H. ⏱️ 2h 28m 📅 01 Feb 2011
I'm an alcoholic. My name is Nate. I've had the pleasure of getting to know our next speaker here, Matt, for the last couple of years. And he's been a real power of example in my life as far as the embodiment of the 12 steps. I and I'd like to thank him for coming all his way to be here with us tonight. And I'd also like to thank all the Bozeman area groups that have made this possible. A lot of groups came together to make this happen, and this is phenomenal. So
without further ado, I'd like to invite you guys to help me welcome Matt H from New Hampshire.
Hi, guys. My name is Madam, an alcoholic. Thank you, Nate. That was nice to hear that,
umm, it's weird you guys all relate to this. It's weird to hear things like that about myself because I was born in selfishness. And when I hear something nice like that said about me, I still don't feel like it's about me. I don't. It's kind of strange bouncing through some shadow, man. Like, no, that's not me, is it? I, I'm, I grew up in and around Boston, MA. I lived lots of places,
so
Massachusetts,
I, I met this guy. He gave me my intro. I got sober in Southern California, which sounds a lot nicer than it is. I say that and people go, oh, I was homeless. I was selling my blood plasma for $15 a pop. You can do that. I don't recommend it, but you can do it. I had nowhere to live. I was in terrible physical shape
and I I had been trying to drink myself to death and it wasn't working out for me. So eventually I did the 12 steps,
the lessening that I wanted to do on planet Earth. I briefly was on the East Coast before I, I left the country again and go work abroad when I,
a guy who was instrumental in helping me get better called me, I was in Boston and he said there's this punk kid who thinks he's real smart. He needs someone to do a there he is. He needs someone to do an 8 step list with him. And I said, all right. And he said he's in Roxbury right now, which is a kind of tough part of Boston. And I went to pick this guy up and it was funny. I heard the panelists talk today. I picked him up to do an eighth step, take this guy through the book around the 8th step. And all he wanted to do for two hours was
argue about the existence or nonexistence of God and talk about the clash. And that's what we did for essentially I humored this guy for about an hour and a half with his ontological and cosmological nonsense. And then I talked about the clash for 1/2 an hour. And he said, so listen boy, here's the thing. You can keep talking, but you're not going to make it very long in this neighborhood unless you can do something about treating your alcoholism. And he asked me to sponsor him. And I brought him to a meeting where I said I was leaving the country. I said, I want to sponsor you. But I brought him to a meeting in the back of a medical supply warehouse.
It's a beautiful place to have a meeting because it was very scary. There was disassembled furniture and medical waste all over the place. No coffee, no Donuts, no pastries. A bunch of hardcore dudes who were really, really into getting better in the midst of all this garbage. One of the coolest places I've ever done a meeting was a lot of fire in this room. There was a circle of chairs in the midst of a mess, which is symbolically beautiful. And guys would come in, in this meeting, in the first where's the coffee? We don't have coffee.
You got pastries. We don't have you don't we have recovery
interested in that. And they would sit down and be fairly terrified. And I pointed to these two guys and I said, you can pick him or him, he will sponsor you or he will sponsor you and you get to choose. And he did it. And I try, I left the country and I got to work overseas and I kept tabs on the boy and he's done real well. And by the time I got back, he came to visit me. He was instrumental, especially I moved back to New Hampshire and he was living there and he was instrumental in that community and, and helping out a lot of young guys and bringing a message to him
that you can get better. You can get, but your life does not have to be miserable in the absence of alcohol. And he was a really important guy up in that neighborhood because he was one of the youngest guys around to be bringing that message to him. So it's he said I'm an inspiration. It's an inspiration for me to see guys doing it at that age. I'm a little jealous, to be honest with you. I missed my 20s. The stuff I can remember from my 20s, I kind of wish I don't remember.
I'll talk a little bit about being sick and then I'll talk a little bit about what I did to get better.
Again, I'd like to thank you all for having me out here and let me be of service. Everyone's been tremendously nice. Very nice. Very. I'm almost intimidated by everyone's niceness. You know you're from Boston, right? You know exactly what I mean. I went to the grocery store today and the girl asked me how I was, and I think she really meant it, which was what? I'm not shoplifting. And she said, how are you? Good, I'm cool. There's none in there.
It's beautiful. So it's very nice for me to be out here. I, I, I grew up around this. I've been going to AM meetings for 26 years.
I am 34 years old. You
that's real. Some guys, some of you in the room know exactly how that happened because you I grew up. I learned to do math homework in the back of the room in the basement of a hospital filled with smoke and still coffee. I I come from a big clan of Alcoholics and drug addicts and I've been going to a meetings since I was a little kid. This never seemed weird to me because I grew up in it. My mom had us going to Halatene, which is a lot of fun.
Guys in my family, like my father, if you wanted to spend time with them, you would take it where you could get it. And the truth is this, I could get that time
that I wanted with these guys again in a church or in the basement of a hospital. So I took it, you know, my dad, my dad was a Marine and my dad was a tough guy and my dad was a smart guy. My dad was a real bad alcoholic. My dad raised my mom's whole family as well as his own kids. My my father grew up the he was the oldest of six boys. His father was Boston cop W Rochester, MA.
My mother's family, who were great people, robbed armored cars for a living.
That's real. So my father and mother got married on the day of their wedding. What they did. You got the cop over here. The cop side of the family, My mother and father, they stayed in their wedding clothes and the gown and the tuxedo and went to Walpole prison so that my grandfather could see them from behind three inches of bulletproof glass. It's real. My, my dad was a guy. I went to a lot of meetings with him. And I remember when I was a kid, I saw him with a bunch of these a, a guys. You know, my dad was
Lebanese and he had a little camel, gold camel around his neck because he was Arab and because, you know, he said the camel can go a long time without a drink.
My dad couldn't, He tried, you know, I love him for it. I saw him with these a, a guys who are at the house and I always thought I didn't quite understand it, but I thought that's kind of cool. They have this thing. I, I, you know, that'd be kind of cool to have something like that someday. Little did I know I would in fact, someday have something like that. 12 years old. My father was coming up on a year, which was a magic number for him. He could not hit a year. My dad was a guy in the 80s. He put himself through night school and became pretty successful guy working in finance and he drank vodka and he did coke like everyone did in the 80s
work in finance and he went home about 3 days early from vacation and he was coming up on a year and remember this was pre cell phones. There was a time
when cell phones did not exist and I'm just old enough to make those kind of jokes now. I kind of like it pre Internet jokes, right? And
my mother, I could always, I could always kind of figure out where my dad was at by my mom's pacing. I could see it on my mom's face. I could I could read how my father was. My father was not the kind of guy to get loaded and come home. My dad would go to a hotel and leave for five days, which is worse in many ways because at least if he was home and drunk on the floor, I know where he was. But when he was gone, you never knew if he was coming back. What happened at 12 was we came home and I saw my dad's car in the driveway and my mom just turned red and I went, oh, I'll fight. And I'll never forget walking by his Gray grand marquee. And in the back seat, I saw a bottle of absolute and I went, oh, man,
it's going well. And then I expected to hear fighting. And instead I heard screaming and screaming and screaming. What happened was my dad came home three days early and he had a seizure about a year and a half before. And the doctors told him, if you, if you keep doing this, you're probably going to die. And he'd come home about a year and he relapsed and he drank and he did coke and he died. And he'd been in that bathroom for a few days. And it's probably the worst day of my life because I just heard my mom screaming and screaming and screaming. And my brother and I tried to get in the house and my mom, with the force of a bulldozer,
came running out and just knocked us both down and locked the door and locked us in. Which was the right thing to do. We didn't need to see that. What happened after that is we lost our house in our car and our stuff and our place to live and everything
and my mother being a St. took a shitty job that she hated working 60 hours a week to get us place to live. And this kept happening to me, to all the guys in my family, the guys who replaced my Michael Scotty who was kind of like my older brother because I was older brother happened to him and all these other guys. The reason I say that is, is not to get pity from you because I bet you 3/4 of people in this room have the same kind of family. I know
ominous warning which I failed to heed. You know, when I was a kid, I did not plan on getting high or drinking ever because I knew it was bad and I did not know it was bad because a DARE officer came in dressed as a teddy bear
saying don't do drugs, kids. I had the DARE stuff that didn't do it for me. You bring in the board full of drugs that fascinated me. I didn't do it because my teacher said just don't drink and just say no. I didn't do it because Nancy Reagan was on the television told me not to. I didn't do it because I knew that you get bad results from drinking and using. The bad results I got were this you had someone at your high school graduation. I didn't. The bad results I got were this you had a bike and I didn't. The bad results I got were this, you know, you had someone there to talk to you about dating girls and I didn't. Again, I have my mom is great, but
my mom tried to do everything and again, this woman's a St. to me. You don't want the sex talk from your mom. I assure you, my brother and I, she sat us down one day and she said, listen, you're going to listen to me and I we thought we did something and she pulled out this book with a big picture and I won't tell you what was on it. And she went this and my brother and I went. We ran for our lives. She tried to fill him, but there's some things he need a guy around for.
My mom. My mom's got three siblings. There's four of them there. You've got 3 widows and one widower whole from alcohols and drug addiction. It's almost every one of my family and I swear I would never drink or use. But it turns out that I'm an alcoholic
and and by the time I found alcohol, I was already pretty sick. In fact, I didn't know how much pain I was in until I took a drink. And then I realized, wow, that's medicinal. The first time I got loaded was in a basement in Dorchester, MA. And we all got booze and we all got loaded and we all fell down. I was the only guy to come out of a blackout and walk around and find those wounded soldiers and I had choke on cigarette butts and tobacco spit and keep going for it. And what happened to me as I drank alcoholic glue for a little while and then
I stopped drinking. I found a repair. I found a fix for my alcoholism. Someone introduced me to opiates. Great, don't want to drink when I'm on opiates. So I became a heroin addict. And I went to treatment quite a bit for heroin addiction. And that, to be honest with you, was in fact my first love. It was later on replaced by alcohol, but I went to treatment a lot as a heroin addict. And I played this game with myself where I thought I could drink. Finally, what happened to me in the 90s was I became the test monkey for the FDA for this clinical trial for a new drug that was going to save all of the open addicts in the world.
And they said, we're going to give this drug. I'm one of the first guys on earth to take this drug. I want to mention what it is. They said, we'll give you this drug every day. It's going to take away your your craving for heroin. And so long as you don't get high on opiates, you get to stay in this program. Great. So for 10 months I took this drug every day. I did not crave heroin and I did not get high on opiates. But I learned two things in the course of that ten months that changed my life forever. And this is evidence, by the way, I realized later on that what I suffer from is truly a spiritual malady. My problem is not the consumption of vodka.
Vodka for me personally is medicinal. It's just the bitch of it is that as time went on, I found the efficacy of my medicine went down and the price went way, way up. My problems with spiritual malady, this was more evidence amounting to that. For 10 months I did not get high. I learned two things. Number one, I learned that you could inject cocaine. I did not know that before. Anyone who's tried that will tell you that is not a hobby with any longevity to it. You can't do that for a very long time, and I didn't have the funds to do it. The second thing I learned in the course of those ten months is what really changed the course of the rest of my existence.
I learned that I like to drink vodka. I learned that I like to drink vodka and what happened was I finished that program and people expect you to go right back to the dope and something happened to me. I didn't. I stayed with vodka because I figured something out about vodka. For me personally, vodka is dependable. Dope left me waiting in parking lots for hours, but I never had to page a package door right or liquor store. I don't think people use package store out here. I never got to the, I never got to the door of Blanchard's liquor store and had it locked and a guy
page me, page me 5 minutes, 5 minutes. The package store at a liquor store was waiting for me with open loving arms all the time. It was there, it was dependable. And the truth is it's cheap. If I can come up with 11 bucks, I can get a plastic handle if Mr. Boston or pop off or something else classy. And So what happened is I started to drink and I drank and I drank and I drank and I'm a blackout drinker and it's really hard for me to control it. I suffer from the phenomenon of craving and it's vicious in me, a very little control of how much I put my body when I start.
I
I had a psychiatrist at the time,
very, very wise man at a mine like a steel trap. He said this to me. I
sat in his office and I start going to treatment for alcohol after I've been a treatment a million times for opiates and he said and his psychiatrist way as he postured and looked around he said jeez jeez mad. It seems like you just can't stop drinking.
There's like a $200,000 education right there that got him to say it seems like you just can't stop drinking. And I went what you just came up with that. Now you didn't have to consult some sort of Freudian textbook for that. And So what he did was he he put me on an abuse. You guys ever take Ant abuse in here? Antabuse of course is a little pill that you take and when you drink on anti abuse, you get sick again. This is I'm a guy by the way. I've gone to detox a lot. I've gone to treatment a lot, I've gone IOPA lot, I've got a rehab a lot. I've been locked up and I've been a whole lot of mental hospitals. How many, Matt?
I really don't have a number for you. It's that many.
Honest to God, I don't have a number. It's that many. And for years and years and years, what people told me was your problem is that you're shooting dope. I stopped shooting dope. And then people told me this. Your problem is that you consume vodka and take Klonopin all the time. Fair enough. So what would happen to me is I would go to detox for seven days and then they would ship me off to Happy Acre Farms or wherever I would go for 28 days. I would do trigger lists, drop pictures of my disease, and they would spit me out. The some people have done this all. You know what I mean? They would spit me back out into my life.
And at this point in time, I'm at 454647 days free of alcohol. According to that logic, if my problem, if my problem is the consumption of vodka, then at 47 days I should feel OK. Maybe not even great, but just okay. But by that logic, every day that I do not drink, my life should get progressively better until we get to like day 60. I should jump out of bed and cartoon Bluebird should fly into my window and land. I should Mary Poppins business and rainbows shooting out of my ass or whatever. This did not happen for me. This did not happen. What happened to me was very confusing.
My life got progressively worse every day in the absence of alcohol where it counts, up here and in here, to the point where one of two things would happen #1 my psychic pain would get so bad that I would say screw it, I don't care. My third meeting of the day, I'm about to shoot myself in the head. I've been locked up in mental hospitals. Luckily I have no access to guns and someone tells me just don't drink just for today.
And I want to cry, to be honest with you, I want to cry. A lot of people say this may be mad and I wanted that. I wanted to cry because I'm, I'm saying I'm doing it, man. But it's getting worse for me. And what I would do is I would walk down Center St. to go home and I would say if this is it, if this is happy Joyce and free, if this is what you were promising me, I am opting out right now. I don't want anything to do with it. And I would go in and I would buy a bottle and what would happen? Of course, I would enter into the well known stages of the spray emerging remorse for the firm resolution not to drink or use again only because I had to sit in the consequences of my actions.
The second thing that would happen to me, and this is more mysterious, is I would find myself at a bar and as the second shot of Maker's Mark, as that warmth spread to my extremities, I would be returned to sanity. I would reach down and I would feel the small metal circle in my pocket that was my sixty day chip, my two-month chip. And I would say what the hell did you just do? What did you just do? And it was like getting on that roller coaster again when you don't even like roller coasters and everyone just talked to getting on it. Why did I do that? Why did I do that? And this would start the cycle over and over again.
I'm baffled and confused. This man tells me your problem is the consumption of alcohol. We're going to give you a pill that gets you to stop drinking alcohol. Or at least you can try, but you're going to vomit. I took the pill. I, I played. I was working as a professional musician at the time. I was trying to. This was near the end of my active career as a professional musician. I'll never forget this night. I played at a bar, a place called Metronome, the big square bar. And I finished, finished my set and I sat down at the bar and ordered my Pepsi. And I played a little game with myself that you've all played where you convinced yourself you're feeling better already.
I sat down drinking my and I feel bad, man. Muscle tones coming back, whoever can't. When I looked at the other people at the bar. And I did that little game where I said, God, that used to be me.
Look at these people look like fools, don't they? I'm so happy I'm not that. I looked across the bar. My bass player guy named Dan was over there drinking and talking to a girl that he would inevitably go home with. And I convinced myself I didn't miss this at all. Right? That looks awful, what he's doing over there.
And I remember thinking I'm not going to drink him on the interviews. And if I drink on the interviews, of course I'll get sick and therefore I'm not going to drink. And then a little voice came in on my head and it said,
I wonder how sick.
And then the other boys kicked in. And it said, you know, you should know. You should know. My theory was this. You know, the invisible fence for the dog. You put the collar on the dog. You want, you want Sparky to run into that thing a few times and he knows you don't screw with the invisible fence, right? The only way you can learn where the demarcation is is to do it. And so the voice said, you should know what the consequences of drinking on interviews are. And you know what? I hope it's really bad. It serves you right. This is me talking to me because I'm psychotic.
And so I remember this girl behind the bar. I can still see it in my mind's eye, this big square bar. I even remember the side I said,
and by the way, this is a girl that I talked to for 45 minutes telling her about how I'm not drinking. And I now feel so much better. That's why I'm on the Pepsi. And I said, hey, you know what? And I thought of the most benign drink I could think of, a whiskey sour. It's like a soda pop. It's all soda mix. Who drinks that, right? And I said, give me a give me a whiskey sour. And she kind of looked at me a little strange because I occupied 3/4 of an hour of her life talking about I feel much better now. And she said
yeah. And I said, yeah, which is whiskey sour. It's nothing. It's nothing to digest teeth. And she said, all right. And she went. I said, no,
not, I'm on an abuse. Don't reach up there
paying for anything. If you reach for it, come down to the well. I'm going to give it back to you in 10 minutes. And I remember she reached down on the well and she poured me a whiskey siren. I drank the whiskey sour. And of course, if you've ever drunk on anti abuse, you know you get sick. I went in the bathroom, right? The dry heaves. It was very uncomfortable. I think I may have broken a river too, and I puked. I got to be honest with you, by that point, my life in my mid 20s, I'm a guy who'd spent a considerable amount of time in opiate withdrawals. I'm pretty good at vomiting. If it's an Olympic sport, I would bring home the gold every four years.
I vomit like you. Use punctuation. I can hit a Pepsi can from 30 meters.
And what I did was I had a girlfriend at the time, she was a tough Italian girl from East Boston and she every morning she would make me take my interviews. Like you're giving the dog a pill, she'd make me swallow it, being clever. What I did was I replaced all those pills with allergy medication, which cleared me up as well. And I continue to drink and, and what happened was my, my, my drinking progressed and it got pretty bad. And
I, I would go to meetings where people would tell me, you know, I, I, like I said, I grew up around a, but I grew up around a certain brand of a, a that you may be familiar with. I grew up with
this kind of culture of meeting attendance. And what I mean by that is go to meetings and just don't drink just for today
that that works for certain people. And I'm not telling you not to do that if that works for you. People always take this as a battle cry. That guy said don't go to meetings. And I've never said that. I'm not saying that. Let's just get it right now so you don't have to come up and be offended after the meeting. I'm not telling you not to go to meetings. I go to meetings. What I'm saying is this going to meetings for me personally is not a treatment for my alcoholism. I needed to change as a person. I, I would go to meetings
and I would still feel bad and I would go to more meetings and I would still feel bad. And for me personally, it got to the point where I couldn't tolerate it anymore. I just couldn't tolerate it anymore. I would go to rehab. I would go to detox to go to rehab. I do an ILPI get out and
I'm restless, man. You haven't fixed me. You've taken away the one thing on planet earth that gives me ease and comfort. You've left me in the wasteland. You have literally parachuted me into the desert. You've not fixed me at all. Admittedly, again, my medicine, alcohol, it's gotten awfully expensive, and I mean consequences, not money wise. And admittedly it does not work the way that it used to work. But the truth is, this is the only thing that does it. You haven't offered me a real replacement. So I get spit back out onto the street. I need something. I am restless. Restlessness to me we talk about rid. Restlessness to me is not
this, it's not this. Restlessness to me is. I have no ease and comfort. The first thing I personally go for, I go for a woman. It's a relationship for me is number one. So I will paint a target on some poor girl. Hopefully she had an absentee father and low self esteem because she's easy to manipulate.
I'm being honest, right? I'm being honest. I throw a lot of words at her. I make a lot of promises that I can't possibly deliver on and I have a New Girl in my life and do I get ease and comfort from it. You put 7 to 14 days till a novelty wears off, to be honest with you. 7 if you have a nice apartment, Hopefully 6 channels of HBO. I'm moving in quickly by the way. I do for about a week and a half. I used to get a new girlfriend and I would get OK, I'm feeling good. This is great. But see the thing that I figured it out. That's got a short shelf life. Novelty gets old
after a while, then it's not novel anymore. And what would happen is, you know, I'm bored with you now,
except the problem is, see, when I would finish a bottle, I get to throw a bottle away, right? And recycle, hopefully, right? The problem is now you're not doing it for me anymore. You're not fixing me. But now I'm stuck with you and you want to talk about your mother and the girl in the next cubicle and your boring life. And I can't stand you. My God, what did I do? So I'm crazy, so I need something. So the second thing I usually go to is meeting attendance. And I would start going to meetings. And when I say I would go to meetings, I went to meetings that I used to go to, which
there there was very little talk of getting better.
He would come in and you would talk about how you sat in the parking lot and infanticized about a drink and clutched your steering wheel until your fingers were bleeding and cried. And thank God I made it into the room, which is fine. If someone else says, hey, man, there's a way that you don't have to feel like that anymore. But instead, the second guy would say him too. And then the third guy would raise his hand and talk about how he almost rammed into the little old lady in front of him today because she stopped at a yellow light
and he screamed in the car and punched the dashboard 7 times when he noticed there was a plaque with the serenity prayer and he said the serenity prayer and he did not
rear end a little old lady on purpose. That is progress. That's crazy.
That's really crazy. I would go to meetings like that and I'll tell you, I'll be honest with you for a week or so, I would get some relief from going. I get this view, some nonsense I heard some other dude said a week ago. I get it wrong. I got a couple buddies I connect with, right? Guys like this grew up with guys like him. You're from Idaho or somewhere. Anything for me that's east of Boston is it's all the same. But I talked to you for 5 minutes. I know you. You probably got that feeling about me and that's why I could sit down very comfortably with this dude. All this whole table over here,
very comfortable with all these people. It's my people, right?
Talk to this guy, I might as well known him my whole life. I hook up with some guys like him. We go to the meeting afterwards, we go out for coffee. It's fun 'cause we make fun of people at the meeting. That's what we do. But after a week or so, I get a little bit. It's not doing it for me anymore because we go to a lot of meetings together and we're Bros and all. But the problem is this. You say three things, that's all. You have 3 little quotes. No matter what the topic of the open meeting is, I know you will find some way to stitch it into the fabric of that meeting. I can now lip sync with you. I want to punch you.
I can't take it. So what happens is the next thing I do is I go to the gym. I listen to loud angry music
and I lift heavy weights. This is not an effective way to deal with resentment. I assure you. Some of you guys have tried that. It doesn't work. I leave the gym, I feel good. That's it, man. I just need to get back in shape again. After a week that wears off too. So my brother gets me a job and I start making a little money and someone says you got a little money in your pocket, you'll feel better. You can go buy some new black shirts and a big TV. That's all I wear is black, so I own black shirts. I do that, but what do I find? It's not doing it for me. So I end up talking to a guy at a desperation of meeting and I say I'm just going insane. And you know, I'm going to be honest with you
here at this meeting for 60 minutes in one of the smash my face off of the table meetings are really starting to kill me. And what's the advice I get? Sounds like you need to up the meetings.
I'll be honest with you, I'm desperate. So I up the meeting. So now I'm doing 2 meetings a day and I'm going to the gym and my, my deadlift is going through the roof, which is great. You weren't doing it for me. So now I have another girl 'cause that's not going to add to your problems at all. It's still not working for me. So what would happen is I, you know, I showed up at the doctor's office and I say doc, you know, I'm, I'm alcoholic. They tell me I'm an alcoholic and you know I haven't had a drink in 60 days. And
the problem is this. I can't sleep for three days at a time and when I finally get to sleep it's for three days at a time. I have an 8 second attention span. My life is characterized by periods where I feel nothing at all. I am like a robot man. I'm an Android. I can think of dead puppies and it doesn't produce a tear. That's interspersed with periods of complete emotional irrational. I fly off the handle for apparently no reason and do very stupid things. Let Geddon fight with cops.
I really do that. I've never won a fight with a cop, by the way. Cops always win. I always lose. Always, every single time
the doctor hears these symptoms. And then for me personally, again, my faith for most of my life was in chemistry, not God. With good reason. Chemistry worked for me, God didn't, at least what I called God. Vodka never lets me down. So when the doctor says I have products to treat all the things that you are to the talking about, I'd like to blame the doctor. I'd like to say the evil doctors put me on all sorts of medications to treat my alcohols. And the truth is, I jumped at the opportunity
to use chemistry to treat what ultimately turned out to be a spiritual malady.
And I did that for years. And I know the PDR inside and out, and I know the DSM 4 inside and out. And I took all these things. And they may work for some people again, but they don't work for me, right? And like the book says, we're going to talk about religion. We're going to talk about psychiatry. Even though those are very thorny issues. These are the ways that I tried to treat a spiritual malady. That's my personal experience. I would take these very powerful medications and then I would totally disregard the little label that says do not consume alcohol
because it has a little martini glass and I'm going to drink 9 Heinekens, 9 martini. I don't own glassware,
I would drink and what happened is I started to do really crazy things and the state of Massachusetts put a stamp on my head. That's a crazy man. I started to get locked up in mental hospital. So I was diagnosed as having bipolar one and later on I was diagnosed as having schizoaffective disorder, which is the real deal. That means you're a real crazy person. I didn't mind in the beginning. I'll be honest with you. I don't have those diseases. By the way, I started to treat my alcoholism and next week will be two, on February 6th will be 6-6 years. I have taken nothing stronger than
and here's
here's the impressive thing about that it's two weeks it'll be six years that I have not suffered from the obsession to take a drink. I have not thought about it for one second to take a drug to walk into traffic to harm another human being and here's the really impressive part ready. I am relatively happy every single day pretty amazing. I give a normal person happen to walk by and hear that they wouldn't be impressed. I'd say that's rather scary everyone in this room though that's that's something I'm impressed with that you know I had very little to do with that. I had to do some footwork, but
there was an act of grace there as presence of God that did that for me.
And I'm actually happy to be alive today, which is a miracle because I used to look at life as a curse. That's what it was for me. Every day was a curse. I read a line by Dostoyevsky and he says consciousness is a disease. I read that and I went, I should have been born in Russia. That makes sense, made sense to me. You know, what happened was I started to get locked up in mental hospitals quite frequently. And this sounds really weird, but I actually took some comfort in it, you see, because I had all these people
telling me that my problem was the consumption of vodka.
And I would stop consuming vodka and I'd hear people say, I come to two meetings a day. I only need one, but I don't know which one it is. And they're no one laughs. I've heard that joke a million times. No funny anymore. And then they would say this, I come to a meeting to remind me not to drink. And so long as I don't drink, my life gets better. Now I got a 93 highly wide Glide. You know, all the guys around where I live get motorcycles when they get sober. And I got a Boston Whaler and I just put a down payment on a condo.
Thank you. This baffled me because I'm pretty sure my problem is not a lack of motorcycle ownership.
Again, against motorcycles, I just don't want one. And a bass boat. I'm a vegetarian, I have no use for a bass boat. And I know you bought a condo. I got a real bad credit rating, I committed a lot of crimes around that thing and I got no way anyones giving me a house right? But this baffled me because it sound more like Amway than a A. You come to a meeting every day and then you you unfurl this list of possessions you've acquired since you've been coming to these meetings. That's a pyramid scheme, man. What's going on?
This starts to really baffle me. So when someone put the stamp of legitimate crazy guy on my head, I said,
well, at least it makes some sense, right? Because I don't drink and I get worse. Don't get me wrong, I get better in a couple of ways. Financially, I'll usually get better because I go to a job for a little while. Physically, you know, I'll start to heal and in fact, I may even be brushing my teeth. I have a clean shirt on. I'm not sleeping in Boston Commons, so there's no leaves or debris in my hair. I bumped into a girl, I used to date one, so I went on one day with her, let's be honest, on Mass Ave. And I remember trying to act all cool. I was a street guy at the time and she looked really scared and freaked out and I made-up a job. I think it was advertising. Why not?
If you're gonna make up a job, treat yourself right. And I'll never forget on the corner of Mass Ave. and Boyles in the street, and this guy went out with this girl once and she never called me back. Surprised. And now I'm doing really bad again. And I said, yeah, you know, I've just been working a lot. It's a big hours, but you notice you want the big paycheck, you get the big hours. And she was like, I have to go. And I looked in my reflection on the glass in one of these buildings on Mass Ave. and I literally had leaves and debris in my hair. So I don't think I pulled that off. She didn't go for it.
So what happens is I start to I do look better if you bump into me on the street. I look better. If you don't talk to me for any longer than 3 minutes,
you'll think I'm doing better. Maddie, you look good. What, are you going back to meetings, man? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good, Good. You look great. And when you go home that night, you'll even say, hey, I saw Matt today. He looks really great. He's going back to the meetings. He looks good. Great. I'm happy to hear. But see, the problem is this where it counts. In here and in here, I'm getting worse every day. And then I relapse. And The funny thing is this. All these people around me who aren't alcoholic, they're surprised they say this. I just saw him and he was doing so good
because the three minutes I saw you, I looked good. I got a clean shirt on,
brush teeth, brush a shaven right. You're surprised because you think I was doing well. I was getting progressively sicker every day. It's just a matter of time. It's no surprise to me. And if you know me, if you live with me, if you are my girlfriend, it's no surprise. You're surprised I made it that long when I can fight it for 50 days or 55 days?
The problem is this. I'm coming home from my second meeting, and that thought creeps into my head, Right? No one's gonna know. No one's gonna know. The truth is this, no one understands because no one has ever felt the pain that you felt, man. My pain is special, by the way. It's worse than any of yours. No one's ever been like that. Know what? You've got to slow it down up here. You need. Look, you can get a pint. You can go to the Arboretum, you can sit down, smoke a few, but no one's going to know. And you know what? Your program's going to get better as a result. Because, you know, you can't take this stress. And if you relapse from stress, it's going to be really catastrophic. But if you can sneak off and just drink for a few hours, you can get a vacation up here.
Just kind of, it's a pressure valve, man. It's a pressure valve. And I know that most of these people consider that a relapse, but you know what it really is? And I go, no, no, no, no, no. And I feel my little chip in my pocket and I start walking home and I'm fighting. I'm fighting this obsession. I'm fighting these recurring intrusive thoughts that I don't want in there is the truth. I don't want them, but they're coming back. And I don't know about for you guys, but for me personally, it takes 99.9% of my mental faculties to fight those thoughts. And if you are my brother, if you are my girlfriend, if you are my friend, if you are my employer and you require, say, 2% of my love,
attention or energy that is not available. And I assure you, you will see what your ability is. I am not a nice guy.
I got a 90 day chip in my pocket. You don't want to be around me. You come home and ask me a very simple question like oh you didn't get to mill the electric bill. I even left you a check drawn from my account because I go to work where you don't go on this and I turn around like the devil and snap and I say I went to two meetings today for you because you asked me to. I am miserable. I'm miserable. And the truth is this about me. If I can get a few secret little drinks in the day that I do relapse and I get a couple drinks in there, I brush my teeth 9 times. I eat all of that garlic
hummus that's in the refrigerator. I am a sweetheart on that day. You come home that day. This is the first relief I've had in three months. I miss you, baby. You look so pretty. I forgot how pretty you were. Tell me about work today. And here's a really scary thing. Ready. I'm actually interested in what you have to say. I got a little relief. I'll actually listen to you. I can. I'll have a conversation. I'll listen to the horribly boring things you have to say about the girl next to you in work and how that plant was a gift from the boss to both of you and you should really go in between the cubicles and blah, blah, blah. I can't take that
when I'm sober, but now that I have a little relief in my head, slow down.
Tell me more. Really. No, you're right. This is fascinating. I have. I'm interested. I love you again. I love you again, right? For a couple days. I'm a real sweetheart. If I can make it past that point, I will eventually, at 1:00 in the morning, come home. 2 meetings, two hours at the gym, 10 hours of work, come home at 1:00 AM. And the truth is this. I'm too physically exhausted to get the cap off a bottle of Stoli or a bottle of Klonopin and I lie in bed going
Happy Joyce, happy Joyce, happy Joyce free, happy Joyce, free. And And what would happen to me is this thought would come and it would crush me like 1000 LB stone. It would say, who are you kidding?
And I'm going, this is what it's about. This is body. You're fighting, you're fighting, you're fighting. Who are you kidding? And I go, you did it. And I give myself a big mental pad on the back and it's you're a success. You didn't take a drink today. You're a success. And then this other thought would come like a 2000 LB stone and it would say, yeah, buddy. And guess what? You have to do it again tomorrow ready and the next day ready and your next birthday ready and next Christmas in five years from now if you make it that long. And that would be the one that crushed me. That for me is discontentedness. And I would say I can't,
I just can't and I don't want it. And I would opt out and I would relapse in my bed. I 1:00 AM long before I touch a drink.
If this is happy, Joyce, and free, if this is what you're promising me, I am not interested. I am not interested and I pick up a drink. And the truth is this, I get relief. I get ease and comfort from a drink. Again, granted, not as much as I used to get, but still more than anything that you're offering me. The problem about that is when I start drinking, of course, I cannot stop
and I get in trouble. And then you send me out to dry out somewhere, and then you send me off to Happy Trails Farms
to do trigger lists.
And then you say you're fixed, Maddie. And then you drop me right back in the desert. You haven't replaced that. I got. I get a powerful sense of ease and comfort. There's a line and Bill story. Bill talks about losing all of his money, and he talks about his contemporaries, which we historically know lost their family fortunes. And what do they do? They jumped from the towers of High Finance, right? Bill goes to the bar, and what happens? OK, it's not that bad. It's not that bad. And that's how I felt. I felt like this. You could drop me into a war zone. You could drop me into downtown Mogadishu with bullets whizzing by my head. If you give me smokes and vodka, I'm all right. I hit the ground.
OK. Could be worse. Lisa, it's not cold here. They could have put me somewhere cold, right? That's a powerful source of ease and comfort. And the truth is, for me, if you take that away from me, you need to replace it with something equally as powerful. You have to give me something else you can't just take it away from. You haven't fixed me. And when you give me something like antibuse, all you've done really is just castrated my source of ease and comfort. That's all you've done. You haven't fixed me at all.
I got to a point where I gave up. I, I mentally threw in the towel like some of you have in this room,
had been through the ringer countless times. I did not want to be alive anymore. I did not want to be alive anymore. I gave up. My will to live was shrinking. I kept waking up strapped the tables with charcoal all over my shirt and a nice nurse going. It's going to be OK, sweetie. I'm going to give you a little chunk of wisdom. If you wake up strapped to a table with charcoal all over your shirt, nothing is going to be all right for a long time. I assure you. I don't know how these nurses came up with that. No, it's not true. Things are getting incredibly bad. Actually, it's going to be really bad, right?
And what happened was I, I was living in a I was in a shelter and I was on the street and I was physically sick. I was, my health was suffering. And I have an aunt. She's an, she's a non drug addict, non alcoholic, one of the only ones in the family.
She works in treatment. Wow, right. How'd that happen? And I had begged her for help over the years many times. And she had given me help and I burned her and I burned all my bridges and I lied and I embarrassed her and I begged her for help and she said no help left buddy. There's no one left. Sorry. And I went to a detox again, familiar place for me. I spend more time with a wristband on the knot. And I talked to her and she said there's there's a place you can go when you can hang out up there. It's very different. It's not really a treatment center. It's way up in the woods. It's a little more telling these guys very different
and and at the time I said, no, I'm all set. And she said, listen, you have no way to feed yourself. You're sick and you have nowhere to sleep by virtue of the fact that I'm going to give you 3 meals a day in a bed. I would go there and I want this place sounds different. Maybe I'll try it. And they let me go out there for free and I went up there and this wasn't a treatment center per SE. These guys was a little retreat in the woods and these guys read the big book.
And I got there and right off the bat, some guy came out and he said, welcome, brother in the right place. And I went cult. Oh, shit, cults. OK, maybe I can work them for money. And I was pretty blown out at the time. I was not in good mental shape, and I didn't pay very much attention to almost anything. What happened was something that changed my life forever. Near the end of that, I heard a guy speak who later became my sponsor. I heard this guy talking. He said something that I'd never heard before. He talked about getting physically sober and then he talked about being an A, A out in Seattle for six months.
And
he said I was going to two meetings a day, six months. OK, I've heard this all before. And then he said something that was heresy where I come from. He said in my life in many ways got worse as a result. And I went what? He said, I went to two meetings a day and I got sicker
again. I was shocked. I said, you can't say that you can get beaten up after this thing. I'm telling you right now, someone will beat you up and I'll jump you in the parking lot. You cannot. That's heresy. And then he started describing, he talked very little, by the way, about his drinking and jogging. Very little. He taught. He made one funny joke about how he'd go for a jog and be sober and then say, I'd like to reward myself with a nice cold vodka because that's what people do after they jog. And that one vodka would turn into it. And I related that. But this is what I what really hit me. He talked about what it looked like inside his head when he was desperately trying to not drink.
And I went, Oh my God, he's talking about what's wrong with me. Doctors have told me it's this and it's this and it's this and whatever he's talking about is wrong me. I got to see what it is and and this man blew me away. And I went to talk to him afterwards and I said what you were talking about is what's wrong with me. Later on I come to find out it's alcoholism
and this guy impressed me and I said you, please, man, you have to tell me you have to this what you're talking about is what I don't need the vodka is nothing. I need a cure for what you were talking about, please. And in a nutshell, he said God, step work, spirituality. And I went, this is serious. Don't screw with me. I am on. And he and he kind of shook his head and he's again, he said, this is it man, God steppers picture. And I went, look, I know you have to say that in these circles, but I'm I'm I'm well traveled and well read. I'm a pretty sharp guy. You can just level with me and tell me the real deal. We can and I'll, I'll tell them that you said it was God
and he said that's it.
I, I couldn't wrap my head around that at that point in time. I'll be honest with you, because when I came into this, I considered myself to be an atheist. I didn't want to be an atheist. I, I grew up my whole life Catholic schools,
they, they told me about God and I went out in the world and I believed what they said. But but what, what happened was I, the evidence of my senses led me to a different place. You know, I gave up. And so a senior year of high school, I, I opted out of mass, which is a big deal if you go to a Catholic High School, right? I went up to brother Dan. I said, Brother Dan, I don't believe in this anymore. And I think it's more disrespectful for me to come up and take your holy NIL away for I didn't say that because I didn't want to get punched with a Notre Dame ring.
That really happened. And I just said, I can't do this, man. This is I don't believe. I think it's more disrespectful for me to fake it. And I had a pretty progressive bunch of guys who taught me for Catholic monks. They were progressive dudes. And he said, good luck. I hope you find whatever you're looking for. And what I did was I started to look another places. I had always been spiritually hungry. And I got a chance to study some philosophy and some theology. And I looked, I traveled, I saw people lecture, I saw teachers. I sat in meditation. I went out to the desert and did tremendously kooky things.
I would go all the time to the bookstore. I am the guy at the bookstore reading spiritual literature and later shoplifting it.
They call it liberating it why they making money off of it? There's no right. It's wrong for them to do this.
Steal some magazines too. That'll punitive measures against them. I would get fired up. I knew it. But by the time I did step work, by the way, I was fairly well versed, more than your average dude in spiritual literature by far. But I came into this an atheist. At least I thought myself to be an atheist because I went out there. You see, I thought I looked. I said, look, I I'm not the guy who wants to shoot you down and have intellectual arguments. I'm the guy who's desperately waiting for you to show me something.
I'm the guy who's showing up for lectures hoping that they'll say that guy's in real pain. The rest of these clowns, we just need a buck from them.
And I was hoping you'd come get me and say we know that you're the real deal in your series. Take me in the backroom and show me a guy levitating or juggling. I don't know anything. Show me something real. But the truth is, I wondered literally the earth and I'm finding things. So when I when I got to the steps, I said, look, here's the bad news. Sorry to be the guy to deliver it. It's not out there. I've looked later on, I come to find something out. I had a fatal flaw in my logic. Not finding what you're looking for is not the same as disproving the existence of that thing.
I confuse those two things. You see, that's why I say I thought I was an atheist,
thought I was an atheist. I got to spend a few days with this guy and he he impressed me and this is what impressed me by the way, not seeing him in a meeting because you all know you want to be impressive in a meeting. Read 3A a history books and learn some Doctor Bob quotes. It's easy, right? Who said I think it was I'm on the panel. Maybe Melinda for a very impressive people on the panel tonight. By the way, I don't give compliments lately, but all of you guys very authentic, very impressive. You know, it's easy for me to show up and be a hero with you guys. 10 minutes, we chat, we smoke a butt. I throw some Doctor Bob quote out. You know,
Bob once said, and everyone goes, this guy's good. He knows a lot about Doctor Bob. Let's see you all know that. It's really how, how is my home life, right? I come from a big crazy family. How do I act around my alcoholic family members who drive me nuts, right? How do I deal with a sick person? How do I do with a sponsee who's torturing me, right? How do I deal with someone I don't like? That's that's where it is. And I got to see this man. I got to see how he drove, which is a good indicator of spiritual fitness,
especially in the city of Boston, right? I got to see how this was what impressed me, how he talked to the girl at the cash register at Hannaford's
at the supermarket, because we're in the East Coast. We're not nice like you guys are here. We're mean, right? And he was nice, nice to this good. And this is what really impressed me. I heard his fiance later to come call him and his wife call. And I couldn't hear what she was saying, but I could hear the tone of her voice and it was angry woman tone. And I went here we go, let's see now. And he went, no, you're right, you're right. No, I'm sorry. Can I listen? I'm going to call you back. I apologize. I'm with and I went,
he had something, I couldn't put my finger on it. And what happened was I, I started to go through the big book and this blew my mind because see, I thought I knew something about a A. I've been around a A my whole life. I know more about a A than you do. Someone takes me through the doctor's opinion and it lit me up like a Christmas tree.
I've been a treatment literally countless times. I've been a countless IOPS. I've been a countless detoxes. I've been locked up a whole bunch where they forced me to do trigger lists, right. I did a trigger list once because I was in a place where I couldn't leave even if I wanted to. Inconvenient, and
I put some heart into it out of boredom. My trigger list looks like a Russian novel. It's 900 pages long. It consists of any situation a man or woman may find here himself on. My trigger is. I came to find this out. My trigger is consciousness. If I'm awake, I'm in danger of getting drunk.
He takes me through. It's very true. You can do that little thought experiment on your own and see if that's true for you. It was for me. So I threw out this business of triggers. I don't have triggers. If I'm I've done it on a Tuesday, a Wednesday, a Saturday, and Valentine's Day, early evening, late afternoon, 7 AM, 12:00 PM, you name it, I've I I drink. That's it. Someone takes me to the doctor's opinion, and this is the first time in my life someone puts accurate names on what is wrong with me. Someone talks about allergy, my abnormal reaction to alcohol.
I have a girlfriend, she grew up on a she grew up on a little village on the Slovak border. They make slivel bits of which is 1000 proof plum Brandy that will burn off your eyebrows if you simply smell it
and they make wine. This is strong. I by the way, I'm, I don't drink and I'm a vegetarian for two different reasons. Obviously I go out to visit them. I'm an alien to them. I might as well be a Martian. They grow their own food. They live in a farm. They make sausages to pride and joy. I don't eat it. They're baffled. And then they come out to bring me their homemade liquor. I don't drink it. They're, they have no idea what to do with me. She drinks 1/2 a glass of wine
and I say you going to finish that and she goes, same answer. She goes, Oh no, I starting to feel it.
I'm sorry. What? You see at 7:00 PM, this is a normal reaction. Alcohol, you ready? It's 7:00 PM. She drinks 1/2 a glass of wine. She starts to feel the booze because this is a person. This is baffling. She likes the taste of wine with food, but when the alcohol kicks in, she says to herself, it's seven. If I have a whole glass, I'm going to get sleepy. The rest of the night won't be fun. I'll be falling asleep. She stops. I don't relate to that. Another normal reaction to alcohol is my friends who love to drink non alkies. They're a lush, but they're not an alky. You guys know the difference.
Some of these guys even have Duis. By the way, I have a lot of friends who have Duis who are not Alcoholics. They have one DUI because that DUI was enough consequences had manifested to a sufficient degree to get those guys to reel it in. Because they have that ability on a Friday night, I guarantee you these guys will be snot hanging drunk. That's what they do, right? Normal reaction alcohol. They have a shot and a pint. What do they want after the shot in the pint? They want another round. What do they want after the second round? They want a third. What after the third? Smoke a butt, talk to a cute girl, Have a cheeseburger, have 1/5.
OK, I drink like that. No, the difference is this. If their girlfriend calls, of course,
and says Mr. Fluffy Paws has been hit by a car, you have to come home right away. They have the ability to stop.
They can say, look, I didn't really like the cat, but I love my girlfriend and I'd love to hang and I'd really like to drink until I'm on the ground, but I got to go home where she's gonna kill me. They have that ability to stop on a dime. I've never had that. My she called the cat got hit by a car just like get a shovel. I'll be
I can and like most of you guys, if I do go home, I will go to the bar and I will say give me two double S of makers and the guy I can't give you double S in the state, give me 4 singles and makers. I have friends coming and I # them and I go, joke's on you, I don't have any friends.
And I go home and if I'm, if I'm still on my two legs, I will help clean the cat up. But as soon as I'm done, I'm going to the freezer because there's a bottle of Citron in the freezer and I'm going to drink it at home. I can't stop. And someone explains that to me and it literally explained half of my life. Literally half of my life. Every time I've said just one, it turns into time travel. I'm rocketed into next Tuesday. And of course, everyone knows that the real price of time travel is not
plutonium for the flux capacitor like they had in that movie. The real price of time travel in my case is this.
I am held accountable for all sorts of stuff that I really don't remember doing right. People tell me these things. My I broke up on my younger brother on top of me once. Who's my, my younger brother is much tougher than me, which is embarrassing but true. My younger brother on top of me, younger brother's a tough guy. I'm not a tough guy. I grew up around tough guys. I know I'm not. And he woke on top of me and he's going, where is Karen's car? Where is Karen's car? That was his girlfriend that I lived with. And apparently what happened is I lost her car
and I went what are you doing in my room?
You are in the hallway and the stairs in the wrong building. Where is Karens car?
Are you sure I had it? You sure it was me? It was me. This explains half of my life that was true. They found in front of a bar. Surprise. Really.
This explains half of my life. And then someone talks to me about obsession. Obsession. Something that is, in fact, more powerful than that. I can't fight with my thinking. This explains all those times that I find myself, after the booze kicks in, in a parking lot, the sweat of my hands soaking into that coarse texture of a brown paper bag and the warmth spreading. Outgoing, What did you do? Here we go again, man. Here we go again.
Think through the drink. How do you think they're a state of mind that is characterized by the absence of all reasonable and rational thought. This was what drove me crazy.
People would say think through the drink and I would reflect and I would say, do there are times I don't think at all. I just find myself drinking. What do I do about those times? Call your sponsor first. Again, I don't think you understand. I'm not thinking about anything. What do I do about those times? And what about the times when it comes into my head and it says, that's just a glass of red wine, man, and you're at a wedding. And the truth is that wine is far more on the juice end of the spectrum than the booze end. And it's packed with antioxidants. And I don't really know what those are, but they're supposed to be good for you. So you should really do this. And the truth is this. It's not an open bar.
It's not like I have access to open flowing booze, right? That's all ridiculous. And in fact, I have overwhelming evidence that says if you touch a glass of red wine, you're a goner, You're in detox or handcuffs, guaranteed. I have overwhelming evidence. And yet what happens? I believe something that's ridiculous, and I go, I can do it. You know what? They're just about to serve dinner here, and it's a wedding. And I know people here, and I promised her I wouldn't get. You know what? That's enough. The pressure of people being mad at me will keep me sober. Yeah, that's ridiculous.
And I take a drink and what happens? Here we go again.
And someone explained to me what it meant to be restless, irritable discontent. What it meant to have a spiritual malady when you're trying desperately not to drink.
And this guy drew this out in front of my big book, and then he put two arrows in a circle
and he said, this is the cycle that we recover from.
And then we went back to this title page. And the first thing this guy had me doing, this is the first thing I do when I sponsor somebody. We open that title page. And he made me underline a word. He made me underline the word recovered. Recovered. He said, you see that word? And I went, I was afraid of that word, 'cause you're in recovery or you're recovering, right? And in fact, the meetings I went to, if I use the word recovered, people would like take off their shoes and throw them at me. You don't get away with that. And he pointed to that word and I was kind of afraid of it. I went,
is it possible?
Yeah. And he said, see this book you got in your hands? I said, yeah. He says he uses it 86 times.
Yeah. He says, yeah, why don't you watch for the word recovered? And then why don't you watch for the word recovery and see what you say? I didn't see recovery there. I saw recovered over and over again. He explained to me what it meant to be well.
He said you can get better and I went cool. I don't know what better is by the way, I had no idea I was playing along. Better to me is pretty blackout from benzos and alcohol. He said you can be okay. I don't know what okay is. You know something I figured out after I did this work. I had never been happy. Maybe when I was a little kid but had been so long I didn't remember it. I had mistaken happiness for some. Now see I had this thing. I had temporary distraction from misery and suffering. That's what I had and I thought it was happiness. I got it through drugs, alcohol, relationships, right? Sometimes from procuring
goods, right? It distracted me temporarily from misery and suffering. And I thought that's what happiness was. Distract yourself from how miserably you are. And he said no. This idea Bill uses this term two times in the book that almost makes me cry every time I read it. 4th dimension of existence. For me personally, that is not flowery poetic language. I live in 1/4 dimension of existence. When I say that, it's not because I'm hallucinating. I say that because I live in a way that I didn't think was possible. I have internal stable happiness that is not contingent upon external circumstances.
I had never experienced that before. That's a fourth dimension of existence. You could tell me about it till you blew in the face. I'd go. But if you have an experience, if you've never been in love, you don't know what it is, do you? Until you're in love, you don't know what love is. You can listen to love songs. You go home and put on your journey cassettes and you can, you can read your beautiful poetry by Rambo. But it's not the same as being in love, huh? Until you're in love, you don't know what it is. And when they talked about that 4th dimension of existence getting well,
I had no idea what he meant until I experienced it. And if you haven't done that, I really encourage you to do it. I imagine from from what I've heard and from what I've seen here so far,
really powerful a a community here to really, I get to travel a lot. I'm blessed and it just impressed me. Just this panel tonight, all four of these guys were talking about what happened to me. Brings a little tear to my eye. Very impressive and people I've met here today been just incredibly impressive. You all doing what I do. We're brothers and sisters. We walk the same path. If you stumbled into this room and you don't do those things, I'm telling you do it. Do it. You don't have to be miserable. You don't have to be crazy. You don't have to battle thoughts of drinking all the time and it can be good
and I I experienced something I experienced this happiness that's not based on whether I have a woman in my life for money in the bank. I don't I never do I buy in debt. That's thank you. 9th step
truly, truly to this day, every month financial restitution
again, I I don't own very much stuff. I bought a car. I didn't have a license for eight years. I bought a car for the first time. It forever cost me 950 bucks. Yeah, it was a big purchase from me because at any given time I have a big three digit bank account. Every now and then it will breach 4 digits and I'll go into the $1000 range and then all the sudden payments,
it's back down. But I'm OK. I wake up in the morning, I'm OK. I go to bed
at night, I'm OK. This man took me to the, the beginning, the big book and it lit me up like a Christmas tree. And I would like to tell you all that I, I, I did everything in there and I followed it through and I lived happy living after. That's not true for me. What happened was I, I did, I did basically a gym story, right? I did step work to a place where I felt better
and then very alcoholically, what I did is I traded any real long term change for short term
comfort. Very alcoholic thing to do. I'm going to sell out the long term. So I get some immediate comfort right here, right. My grand sponsor is a guy by the name of Don P. He's from out these ways. He's from Colorado and and I heard him once say my spiritual experiences have all been characterized by pain. And I went what? And he said spiritual experiences for me, they hurt and I was supposed to be feeling it's supposed to be unicorns and rainbows and everything, right? Not for me either. My, all my major spiritual experiences have been characterized by me walking through a period of change
in pain and discomfort. That's it. Read your book. And by the way, he doesn't promise you that it won't be that he talks about certain trials in low spots, further vicissitudes, right? I have my beautiful moments. I moved, I moved back from Europe to New Hampshire, which is a beautiful place. There's nothing there, but it's beautiful. And in the summer I get to go out running through these trails, you know, and I, I finished a retreat of meditation retreat, 3 days of silence and it is powerful. And I'm running through this 5K loop up by the mountains. Very beautiful place. You guys all live here. You know
what it's like to be out in nature. And I remember coming around the bend and the sun came through the trees and hit me on the face after three days of silence and meditation
and I hit my knees and I just bawled like a baby
and I prayed. I had nothing else to do. I didn't know what to do. I was overflowing with happiness. I look like a crazy man. I'm a guy in shorts in the woods alone crying, right? I didn't win the lottery. I had nothing else to do. I hit my knees crying like a baby. And I just gave thanks and praise to God. Beautiful experience. I don't call that a spiritual experience. I I call that that's a really beautiful moment that I get as a result of trying my best to be spiritually fit. I don't confuse that with the spiritual experience, by the way, that's a beautiful moment. I don't take that for granted. Trust me. I don't get them often. When I get them, it's
tool, right? My spiritual experience is evolving, characterized by me having to walk through some pain in my personal life. I don't even realize I'm doing it while I'm in the middle of it. I'm usually saying, what am I doing wrong? I come out the other end and I realize that I have changed. I have grown spiritual. I've been forged by the fires of pain, right? And that's what a human existence is about. Walking stuff you don't want to walk. What happened was I, I felt a little bit better. I went down to a homeless shelter. I had nowhere else to go. I, I dabbled in the steps
and I did the steps to the extent that a really smart guy like me needs to do the steps, which is less than the rest of all of you. It's
because that's my attitude and I felt a little bit better and then you know what happened. Surprised. The surprise. I,
I drank, I drank, you know, I, I didn't think about it. I just found myself drinking
and I went back out and
there's there's a place in the book Bill tells us he says you want to check if you've done a real first step. Here's your check ready. 2 roads, two roads when you guys set it up here tonight, right. One, if you really know that you're the real deal, if you are a real alcoholic as opposed to a a heavy drinker. If you're a real alcoholic, the first word is this blood out the consciousness of your intolerable situation at the bitter end, right? And the 2nd is accept spiritual help. I was so tired and so blown out. I took Rd.
one and I said I'm done. And I'll tell you this, there is nothing so painful as sitting at a bar
in the midst of phenomenon of craving, thinking about phenomenon of craving. That's miserable.
That last drunk of mine took me to Seattle where I was briefly employed, very briefly. And then I managed to get a job running a nightclub when I couldn't play music anymore. I started working studios and then Raider. I bartended and I ran nightclubs, Bad nightclubs, a good job for an alcoholic. I made it down to San Diego where I was employed as a bar manager for a pretty fancy place. And what I would do is I'd wake up in the morning with the shakes and I would take a whole bunch of Ativan because I couldn't go into work smelling like booze. And I would desperately try and make it through about 3 hours before I could drink because see if you smell booze on my breath. 4 hours later I could say well what the
came by and I had to do this and I had to make sure the vodka wasn't spoiled on the shelf. I had to check the freshness of the vodka and I knew that that would gig was about to come to an end because everyone already caught on. I didn't last very long. This guy's a drunk, they knew it. I had bartenders working for me and this was a very proper upscale type place. And I remember doing a very fancy private function, some very, very wealthy people. And I had two bartenders, all tuxedo fancied calling me Mr.
And I said, you guys are doing great. I'll tell you what, let's take a shift drink. And they went, what? They never heard of this? I said a shift drink
and they go, what's a shift drink? I said, it's a drink that you take after your shift. And they said we've only been here for 45 minutes. I said, this is a mid shift drink, we'll take one now. Really. I said, stop pouring that Johnny Black. Three of us come on. And we ducked behind a bar and these guys are like, is this cool? I'm your boss, right? Yeah. Drink. I knew that was coming to an end. That's all real. Yep, I know that's coming for an end. And I what happened was I took a job down in Cabo San Lucas, Mexico.
Bartending at a discotheque? Good job again, right? If you're thinking about fleeing to Mexico, I can save you the trip. They drink down there and they have drugs.
What happened was I got down there and I was legless every night. I had two bar backs doing my work for me and I couldn't do it anymore. So I made a decision to drink myself to death. I made a really a conscious and cogent decision. I said I'm going to drink myself to death. So I literally wandered off into the desert. I left my belongings. I didn't have many and I I started drinking and I got my hands on some meth, which is a drug that I despise but I cannot stop when I start. What the meth did for me is it kept me awake to continually drink.
Rot got Mexican booze and I made it to a little place called La Paz,
and in La Paz I got a cheap little room with the last few bucks I had and I started to drink myself to death.
But something happens. See to my shock and horror and amazement, I kept waking up. I had this fantasy about Morrison style. I was just going to fade out into this velvet blackness. It would be cool. I'd be celebrated. People write books about me. It didn't happen. I couldn't figure it out, but I kept waking up. I I was in worse and worse condition. I had almost chewed a whole 3 inside of my face which got infected. I looked like the Elephant Man. The whole side of my face was infected and swelled up. I would walk through the streets of La Paz and people would see me and freed them. This was Crystal
gringo to somebody. Walk away. I was very scary
and something hit me and this is ultimately we got me to throw myself into the steps and really do this make this my life in effect. This is what brought me to a place where I took a real third step where I really committed where I really signed that contract with a God as was so eloquently set up here tonight and perfectly said of my complete not understanding what happened was I realized you're not going to die. Your life is going to get progressively worse every single day. And every day I woke up and I said
I've never felt this bad in my life. And the next day I would wake up and say, Oh my God, I feel worse, effectively making every single day the worst day of my life.
It was like one of those stories of the conquistadors coming to the new land and they find the fountain of youth and they realized everlasting life is in fact a, a curse, right? They don't want to be alive anymore. And I, I was trying to drink myself to death and it wasn't happening. It wasn't fear of death that got me into the work guys. I had people tell me I grew up. I might as well grown up in a Funeral Home. Everyone's gone for me, right? I'm not afraid of death. I'd counselors sit me across from their their desk and tell me all the time, I'll never forget this guy, Bruce. He said, you know, Matt, you could die from this thing.
And I feigned shock and horror. I went, you're right, Bruce. It's a terrible disease. In my head, I'll be honest with you, in my head, I rode the commuter rail to Mass General Hospital that day. I sit next to the open door, the commuter train, just to give myself the option.
That's true. That's what I think about all day is killing myself. I don't say that out loud to Bruce, the counselor, because I learned the hard way what happens when you say that out loud. You get locked up. I figured that out. So what I do is I go, you're it's a terrible disease. It is. Bruce, we're going to work on this thing, me and you. And then I looked at this guy's desk and I saw a picture of him and his kids at the lake holding the big trout. And I saw a picture of him over here with the snowmobiles and then him with the wife and the golden retriever. And I realized, see, we're different breed of cat. He and I. This is a man who's attached to his human existence, right? Death scares this guy. He's I don't want to die.
Life is good every day. I'm a guy who's so miserable, it's all I can think about. You can't threaten me with death, man. It's sensation of consciousness. I'm into it. I like oblivion. I'm a oblivion Ranger. I'm a blackout drinker. That's what I do. What got me into the steps was this idea you're not going to float out in some peaceful fog. This is going to be your life for a very long time. And when death finally comes, it will be a great relief. And what happened was I made my way back up to Tijuana and I crossed the border into
San Diego
and I did a real third step. I did a third step by myself in a parking lot. I hit my knees in desperation. From the outside, it didn't look very impressive. It was a sad, smelly homeless man mumbling to himself. It's a common sight in San Diego because the weather is good. There's a lot of homeless guys there. This was the most meaningful thing I've ever done in my life to this day, because this is a start of everything for me. This was the start of rebirth for me. This was the start of a new guy there. Still to this day, the most meaningful thing I have ever done. As a third step, a real third step, I made a
I signed a contract with God, again a God of my non understanding to follow through with the steps and make this my way of life.
The first that made sense to me, I didn't I didn't have a problem first up. Even that idea of obsession, I knew unless I did something to change my broken mind, I had figured it out on my own. Guys, I'm not even that smart. I think I am, but I'm not. I figured out people, you think through this and think through that I might thinking is broken. I can't fix a problem with thinking with thinking. It's dumb. It's like trying to fix a broken tool with itself. You can't do it. Second step, like almost all of you.
But there's this beautiful paragraph, this really potent, beautiful, elegant paragraph. The bottom paragraph of page 43, the last paragraph before we agnostics
this beautiful summation of the three pertinent ideas. It says once more, the alcoholic at certain times has no effective mental defense against first rank. The most dangerous part about that for me at certain times, because I don't know when they're coming. When I did relapse,
three days prior to that, the girl I was dating, I was running the club and I'm trying to fix a sound board and the band's getting angry and people getting angry. And I remember she chooses this time to pick a fight with me.
And I look down and I was losing it. And I saw in her hand something very beautiful. I saw a filthy, dirty martini. I like martinis because I get to pound vodka and think I look like James Bond. I don't. I look like a drunk because I'm spraying food on you, but I think I look slick. I saw in her hand that I remember this little voice in my head said this. It said grab, see, because these people, I moved up to Portland, ME at the time, no one knew me up there. I wasn't Matt the alkie, the junkie, the criminal. I was this guy who didn't drink, and I was also a vegetarian. They thought those things were intertwined again. They're not
jog. That was just a healthy Zend out guy. I'm not it's all affront. This voice in my head said grab it out of her hand and pound it and show these people who you really are. Show her who you really are. Teacher a lesson. And the other voice in my head said nine months ago you were in a homeless shelter, a bad one. You want to go back, pal? And I went can't talk to you right now, baby. Not a good time. And she walked away and I got the mains on and I smoked a cigarette in one drag. I could feel my pulse in my face. You guys know what I mean? When you're like I, I did this thing,
I, I said I need a cigarette so bad. I went to light another cigarette only to realize I was already smoking a cigarette.
And I walked behind the bar and I got real. I still felt my pulse in my face, but I got real proud of myself. I said,
wait, you did it. You thought through the drink. You did. Apparently you've grown a lot. Apparently the whole thing was a phase, Maddie. Granted, it was a phase that encompassed most of my teenagers and the entirety of my adult life, but a phase nonetheless. And we've emerged. Come on the other side, right? I was real proud of myself. That's one of the most dangerous things that ever happened to me. One of the worst things that ever happened because it was three days later. I woke up in the morning. What was I thinking of? Milk. I'm a cereal guy. I like my my cereal in the morning. And I said, did you remember to buy milk?
And I went into my bar around 11 that morning to meet distributors and meet Pepsi. And what was I thinking about? I'm looking at a full double Well bar. I was thinking about lunch, pizza or order some Thai food. 5:00 that night, right? I'm sick, I'm sick, I'm ridful, I'm angry. What am I thinking about? Ice, because my ice machine was slow. I might have to go to the, the hospital across the street, go to the, the, the hotel across the street and borrow some buckets of ice, right? I drank that night, you know, when I thought about drinking
came to me, my head said
that's odd. It seems like we're
seems like we're pounding a handle of Jim Beam. And then this voice went, yes, it appears we are. And I said, looks like I'm drinking again. Yes, it looks like you are. I lost it that night. I was overcome with with with spiritual malady. I was overcome with anger. I was overcome with rage and jealousy and hostility. And I didn't think
one little thing set me off. There was nothing. It was a strong broke camel's Brack, right? The girl that I was dating at the time, and I thought she was cheating on me. She might have been. It's irrelevant. I was sick. She left the bar and I'll show her. All right. I did, right. I just snapped and I drank. That first sentence tells me that it's possible at times I can make some feeble effort to ward off that thought of drinking. But when it really counts, I don't have it. I don't have it. The second sentence is what really lit me up. It says except in a few rare cases, which we're probably all not. I know I am not.
No human power can provide such a defense. Now
keep in mind I thought I was an atheist, but what I had to do here is reflect on my own personal experience. I literally traveled the globe trying to employ every known manifestation of human power to give me such a defense. So first I used willpower. That's a joke. Then I used brainpower. All my wily coyote schemes right. I'm going to move to California because I don't drink out there. They do. I'm going to change my girlfriend. I'm going to change my profession right. I'm going to go to the gym more. I'm not going to hang out with guys who drink anymore. This didn't work. So then I tried to tap into the the human power of the love of a good woman, right. Didn't work. What does that mean? She's
wrong one, I need you right. You didn't do it either. Let's go down the line. What I tried to do add to that is I tried to tap into the power, the love of my family, and that didn't work and I did this later. Some of you guys have probably done this. I did try and tap into the power of the group of drunks and I know it worked for some people. So please don't take offense if it did work for you, it didn't work for me. I tried to make you guys my God. I love you all. Whether I know you're not, I can honestly say that I really do love you, but you're not God for me.
You never will be, right?
Didn't work for me. I tried psychopharmacology to my big believer in science, right?
And I tried psychotherapy and those things, for me, they didn't work.
So if human power isn't strong enough to fix me, again, my own, another person's, or a whole bunch of people's, then if there is a power that's going to fix me. And at that point, making my approach to the second step, I didn't have to believe that such a power existed. I only had to be able to make this statement, which is a statement of not faith, but logic. If human power can't fix you, then if there is a power that's going to do it by necessity, that power must be greater than human. That third sentence in the bottom page 43, when we start getting into We agnostics. My favorite chapter in the book,
which all of you guys know. The book here does not try and convince you that God exists. That's a silly endeavor. I work with people,
I never try to convince him that God exists. Ridiculous. In some ways it's it's more accurate to say that God does not exist because the truth is this. There's nothing that I can comprehend of that represents what's in my life every day. God exists doesn't matter to me. I can't really prove to you that I love my mother, but I know I love her. I can't prove to you I know my I love my mother like I proved you. 2 + 2 is 4, you see? Or that that chair is brown. Irrelevant though. You're not going to talk me out of believing I love. I'm on my mother, right?
I get into that chapter reagnostics, and that tells me two things. Number one, it tells me you better hope there's a God because you're pretty much screwed without them,
right? Talks to me about the need for God. And then the whole back half of that chapter says what it says. Look, I'm going to give you these demonstrations that show you, you have all the faculties necessary to walk a spiritual path, take spiritual action. Thus having an experience, you get to interpret that experience any way you want. Most of us use the three letter word God to talk about it because it's as good a word as any, right? That's it.
I, I hit my knees and I, I heard it said a few times up here tonight on the panel, you know, God of my not understanding. I hit my knees and turn my life and my will over to a God that I was not sure that I believed in, but I was desperate and I said I will do this and anything that is out there, please
help me because I can't die and I can't live.
And I wrote a letter to my sponsor conceding defeat. I said you're, you're right, I'm wrong, you're smart, I'm stupid, you're rather good looking, I'm unattractive. You smell
like roses and lavender and I have a rather foul odor etc etc etc. I basically admit a complete defeat my methods and he replied to me and he said you know what to do
you know what to do now you have to do it.
Recently a guy in my family that I love very much he he's one of these willpower guys. I talked a couple of willpower guys tonight right. He manages to make it a long period of time just not drinking. How you doing Good, good, good, good man, good. You know good how you doing man? You been all right, You busy. You look busy man you okay? I'm worried about you. Thanks for your concern. No, I'm doing pretty good.
Yeah. Good. I'm good. You look great. This guy called me. He travels a lot and he was out of the country and he called me and he said he drank and he couldn't stop. And he's a tough guy. This is one of those tough guys. Never. No, I'm good. He called me and and he was crying and devastated and he's a big tough guy, which means that he's in a lot of pain. And he said this to me. He said, you know, man, I I listen to a speaker tapes you gave me. I gave him some tapes of some big book guys. And he said I was still thinking about drinking. And then I bought the book with me. I even went out and read the book and I still couldn't stop thinking about drinking.
I said, dude, I don't think you understand. It's not like a magic book. It's not like Harry Potter. There's no spells in there. You can't go out and read it and be like alcohol be gone. There's instructions in there, brother. And it's great that you listen to these other guys talk about doing what they did to get better, but that's not the same as you doing it. That's like studying a recipe all day, even memorizing in some cases, and then going home and wondering why you're hungry. You never bake bread, man. Never did this.
What? Yeah, man, you have to do it. It's it's not magic. You're not going to be able to read it and get anything from it. You can't get it from osmosis. It's an instruction book. It tells you what do you have to do? And this guy said, you know what to do now go do it. And I'm 3000 miles away from anyone that I knew doing this work. And I threw myself into it. And I I made a commitment to make it my life. That's what my third step was. It was me sending a contract with the God of my non understanding saying I will go to any lengths for a spiritual experience. I'm in a very privileged and blessed position. I get to do
work with a lot of people, with a tremendous amount of people. I've been blessed to do that. It might be a karmic thing. Maybe God is letting me make payments on the damage, right? I kind of see it like that sometimes. I did a lot of damage and, and I tell these guys, you know, there's a very powerful line in there. Don't, don't confuse yourself. Don't take this thing lightly. This is big, right? Any length, any length means any length. It doesn't mean any length within your comfort zone.
And these guys go what do you mean? Like go to meetings? No, any length. You mean like I gotta go to sober house or something? Any length?
You mean like I can't smoke weed anymore? Any length? What do you mean by any length? I literally mean any length
there's a, there's a passage in the Buddhist sutras I love it says best to not get on the path at all. But if you get on it, you better finish it. And they're talking about the spiritual path. And in my personal experience, is a very dangerous thing to take a third step and then renege on that agreement because where it leads you, and there's probably some other people in the room like me who started to dabble in step work and then stop. You're in a horrible limbo zone. You're in a world of pain. It was better that you didn't do this at all. And I'm very serious about taking third steps with guys. I tell them I don't treat this lightly. And we stop and we have a long talk and
gone up to the book to that point, and we've been in there for a good amount of time. And we sit down and I ask you to teach me the 1st 2 steps. Tell me the first step, the elegant session. No, tell me to me like I'm a guy who's never seen the big book. Tell me why you're here. Talk to me about the second step. You tell me what? The second step. OK, so what's the third step?
If you can do those things and you understand the gravity of what we do, we'll do it. And if not, I won't take a third step with you. Not 'cause I'm a hard guy, Not because I want to make this some esoteric hidden knowledge and keep it from you. I won't do that to you. I won't let you walk into this thing and take it lightly, because the chances are you may put yourself in a world of real bizarre pain that you never knew existed. Dabbling in the steps and then drinking again. I felt pain in a place that I did not even know that I owned, didn't even know I owned. That was serious business for me.
I got busy with this work of an inventory this inventory
I had been told it's funny around the 4th step my whole life people have told me. I told you guys when Nate said very nice things about me, right? All fabricated. I I was born in selfishness my whole life. My mother is one of these selfless people. You know those people they're naturally selfless, right? My mom just gave up her whole life for the people that loved her. She never had a childhood her her mother was a drug addict. Her father was in prison. She had to raise the kids. They lived in the projects and all their food and supplies came via a truck that said
Saint Vincent de Paul Charities, right Women's A St.
My mother had used to say something to me when I got really bad because when I'm bad, I'm bad. And she said, I don't know where you came from. That was my degree of selfishness. People told me I'm selfish. Girlfriends told me you're selfish. My mother told me I'm dishonest. Those things bounce off me because they're mushy. I have nothing concrete to connect them to. You see, here's the truth about me, guys. I realize this is a result of taking inventory. I lived in selfishness. Everything I do was designed to make me feel better. So when you said selfish, I went. It's meaningless to me. He's like talking to a fish about water. What it takes it for granted. You see, I need something concrete
to attach selfishness to. I need to see clearly what it means to be selfish, what it means to be dishonest. I need to be taught those things. I, I did an inventory and I got to see, it's funny, we get to that 4th column of the fourth step in the resentment inventory. You know what I struggled with? I struggled with selfishness. One of the most selfish guys to ever walk to face the planet. I struggle with selfishness. And you know what? I realized everything I did was selfish. That's why I was so hard for me to do. Essentially in my 4th column of the fourth step. Basically, it's like Maddie insert the contents of your daily existence.
There's your selfishness.
And I had an experience in the fourth step, in the 5th step, I, I didn't understand what my experience in the 4th and 5th step was till much later. I see guys take fourth steps now. And I'm around this culture where a lot of people doing step work and they see the guys who are in the beginning going through the book, see the guys who have done the 4th and they come out of there. Oh, it's like removing a suit of armor and angels came down with flaming swords and I saw Jimi Hendrix came out of the fog. And I don't like that because it builds up all this expectations for these other guys.
They start putting all these labels on what their experience. You don't get to dictate that God dictates what your experience looks like. And for me personally, I don't even try to interpret it because I don't know what it means. It took me a long time to realize what happened to me in the 4th and 5th step. What happened to me was this
it branded for four words into the deep recesses in my mind. I could never get rid of them. Ready, self seeker, selfish, dishonest, fearful. I could never get rid of them. And what would happen is I'm a guy who so habituated being dishonest. My brother's nickname for me was Costanza from Seinfeld. George Costanza because he lies all the time because I'm a guy who will lie when I don't even have to lie. I just don't know if you're trying to trip me up in some previous ball of lies that I've woven and I I couldn't do that. What would happen is I got this this bad job at the beginning of Friday. I worked at a bad restaurant for almost no money. My boss was an 18 year old girl who would yell at me
all the time, all the time. This girl was that it was good for me at the time. I had humble myself. I big studly musician guy and you right. And this 18 year old girl would come up and go. You want me to handle vacuum because I looked under the table and you told me that you vacuum in the corner and then I moved the chip and there's all stuff under there. You think I wouldn't check under the table? I know you don't know how to vacuum. And then she starts speaking Spanish and I go and I'd go home and you know, I'd have to look at what I did in there. And I said, yeah, I'm dishonest. I'm I'm, I'm, I still have this pride around the fact I'm too good to do certain things
and I shall be grateful. Have a job, but it gave me a lot of raw material to work with. Give me a lot of raw material to work with. I saw things in the inventory. We get up to six and seven, six and seven. For me personally, I can sum that up Ready. Excuse my language. Don't do that shit anymore.
And because I don't have the power by myself, I need to pray for the strength, right? Writing inventory, 4th step or 10th step and then repeating the same thing is ridiculous. That's you writing yourself a ticket, a get out of jail free card. That's you writing yourself a ticket to do the same thing. And I've had sponsors, we do 10 step inventory in my line of sponsorship, we write the 10 step out.
They'll call me with the same inventory around the same thing. And I said, dude, I'm not a priest. I'm not father mad would I'm not here to absolve you and make you feel better and alleviate you have guilt so you can go out and take wrong action, huh? If you continue to do that, I won't accept your phone calls because I want to participate in that. My inventory shows me, it informs my prayer life. My inventory shows me what I need to change around. It's about change. And sometimes it's literally my actions. It's the way I interact with you. In my case, now it's a lot about my expectations.
You're not behaving the way that I want you to behave, who you are. Your existence doesn't suit me. And I realize, well, that's not my business. I need to I need to abandon that attitude.
I, I made an 8 step list while I was still living in California.
I, I had a very powerful experience in the eighth step. You don't hear people say that much, but I did. People usually talk about the 9th step. You got this book that has about 1005 references to pen on paper, black and white. There's something powerful about that. Again, I, I know people who have worked with the sponsored guys who have told me, you know, and I, I, we did an oral 4th step, my guy and I, my sponsor and we talked about it. Not the same for me personally. There was power. I couldn't escape the written word. I did an 8 step and it shocked me. You see, I knew I had harmed a lot of people. I just didn't know
how many until I saw notebook pages and the way I did an 8 step was I from my own. No one gave me this instruction. I give it to my guys now after the name. I wrote what I did to them and it made me want to throw up another spiritual experience. By the way, I had a profound spiritual experience in the fourth step. Nausea. I wanted to puke on my notebook because the guy I had in my head who I thought I was, he never existed. And I got to look into an existential mirror on that fourth step. And I said,
I don't like this guy. I don't want to be this guy. This guy is a wormy, fearful, selfish little man.
I used to run in a Marine Corps buddies and my dad, they bumping him every now and then. And they taught your dad was the toughest guy in West Roxbury and he was a stand up guy and he did this. And my dad was a Marine three and third. Talk about honor. And you do the right thing and you take care of the people who count on you. And your word means something. And I had that in me. And they used to say that to me. They say, don't you worry, your your dad's watching you right now. And in my head, I felt like I got punched in the gut. And I would say, I hope not. I hope not, man, I hope he's not. I really hope he is. And I got to look at myself in that first step and I wanted to throw up. That's good, by the way.
I didn't like who I was. That means I was motivated to change. I'm not a sociopath. I'm not a psychopath. When I do the wrong thing, I feel bad about it.
I wrote the 8th step list and it had power over me. I couldn't escape it. It haunted me. And I had to go back to the East Coast and leave California to make amends. And I was facing jail time, not considerable jail time, but for me personally, really any jail time, I'd, I'd prefer no jail time, let's put it that way, to any jail time. And I was scared I would be lying to you if I say I was filled with the fire of God who gave me courage. I was terrified. I was absolutely terrified.
But this gave me an opportunity to to really, really practice this thing we call faith, right, Not belief. Belief is irrelevant.
Guilty of believing crazy shit to be true. Me too. I don't put much doc and belief. I believe weird things all the time and I come to find out I'm wrong all the time. Right. This is faith. Faith without works is dead. Belief without action is mere superstition and that's it.
I had to back this up. I got back to Boston. I turned myself into the courts. I took care of some of that business. I was scared. I had to make amends to a guy who I, I worked for. I don't know why this guy liked me, but he did. It was at a big music store on Mass Ave. in Boston and I needed to get out of work frequently. So I made-up kidney failure, dialysis because I'm creative and this guy was a nice guy and I would basically be able to leave and come. And I was, I was in my 20s at the time. So I would come and go as I pleased. And not only would I be getting out of work and not doing my job when the other guys I worked with would be like, he gets
and go, he'd be you shut up. That brave little guy. Dialysis real. And what happened was I had worked there on and off since I was a kid. I was the only guy who got to work at this place and not have my bag searched when I finish work. And I took advantage of that and I robbed them. I stole a lot of merchandise from there to to pawn and sell. And this guy suspected it. But the truth is he liked me for some reason. And
after I left, I, I, I stole a piece of equipment and I went back to another branch of this store, another outlet wisely to try and sell it there where I was recognized. And this guy kind of figured out, but he desperately didn't want to believe that I would do this because he liked me.
I went back to make amends. I borrowed a car. I drove in, I sat outside of this place. This guy liked me, but he was crazy. And I saw him do crazy things and I was scared. And I sat out front troubling and shaking and, and almost puking into my mouth. And I called a good friend of mine. I said, I'm here to do this men's man. And I, you know, I'm going to go in and I'm going to tell him he's a good friend of mine. I said, I'm going to go in and tell him, you know, that at the time I wasn't doing well. And and that's, and my friend said hide behind that.
So when you're going to hide behind that shit, you can hide behind your alcoholism. What? Don't do it in my mind. Yeah,
I did it drunk or higher. Now I did it. It's me. It's not. Again, this is that idea of disease. You're right, you have a disease. But guess what? You have a disease that is a moral component to it, right? You have responsibility. You have a disease that there's it's treatable. If you choose not to take the treatment, guess who's responsible? You are. I had a friend of mines wife who'd been in the program a long time argument that she said it's not a moral thing. Why do we say moral inventory? But how, how come the book uses that word moral so much? How about how come Bill talks about his declining bodily and moral health?
If it has nothing to do with morals, then why would we ever make amends? Because if if it has not do morality, guys, guess what? There's no such thing as right and wrong, is there? Right. I don't like that, by the way, because it means I have to take responsibility for my actions. I'm not happy about that. But it's real liberating, isn't it? You know what it means? It means you're not the product of determinism. It means not. There's not some disease force that you can't control. It means you have free will. You can make choices. You're free. That's liberating. I was liberating. To me, the downside is it means the heavyweight of responsibility falls clearly on your shoulders.
I went in to make amends to this guy, and I went in there trembling and shaking in a nervous wreck and with the guy behind the counter said I said my name is Matt and I'm here to see Hersh. And the kid looked at me and he said Hersh isn't in today. And I went,
he'll be tomorrow. And I and I had to borrow a car and I came back the next day. And what happened was I parked out front of this joint,
trembling and shaking and vomiting into my mouth and and I got myself up and I prayed and I walked into there, my legs, I felt like I was gonna fall down. And I said, my name is Matt. I was here yesterday to see Hersh. I you said you can make any. This other guy looked and he said he actually called in today. He's not coming in.
Yeah. Any length is any length. I I was dying, but I realized, you know, if I have to come back every day, I'm willing to do it any length of a spiritual experience. And so I came back on the third day
trembling and shaking. And on the third day, he was there and the guy said, what's your name? And I told my name. And he said, Hirsch wants to know what this is about. And I said, I just need 5 minutes of his time. I'm. I'm asking for 5 minutes of his time. And he comes down. And The funny thing about this store is the office, the office is up behind a giant head of Elvis. So there's this heavy moment for me. It's heavy. And I'm trembling and I'm waiting for this guy to come down. I'm like. And he emerges from a giant Elvis head down a spiral staircase. There's this real weird juxtaposition, right? And he walks down and he looks at me and I knew, right? And he goes, yeah. And I go, do you Remember Me?
I used to work here and he goes, a lot of guys used to work here. And I said my, told him my name. I said, could we go to your office for a minute? And he said, no. I said, OK. He said, what do you want? I said, could I just have 5 minutes of your time? And he said, I am here, you've used a minute. And I went, I said I, I need to let you know, I'm, you know, I'm, I'm an alcoholic. As a part of my program recovery, I need to write the wrongs that I've done. And the truth is that I've wronged you. And he went, really? How?
And I told him, I said, I robbed you. I stole things from here, you know, anyone really. And I started to talk about it. And he, he said, hang on. And he came back with a pen and a piece of paper. He goes, could you please write these things down
And I went and we started I'm searching my memory for the items that quite expensive I've stole from here. And then I'm estimating price and we get to the bottom. He said, could you sign that and date it? I went, this is great in court. They're going to hold this up right? And Mr. is to describe Dan written the and I write it. And at this point in time I start to tell him
I did this and I'm here to make financial institution or go to the police or wherever I said, but I also wronged you because you trusted me and you treated me really well and I betrayed you. And at this point in time, I started to blubber in Saab and cry uncontrollably in the middle of a busy music store. So there's guys playing Stairway to Heaven on out of tune guitars. Really weird, right? And I'm crying like a baby and he started to get uncomfortable. And when
they're there and I said and I betrayed you, you, you've treated, you were one of the guys in my life looking out for me and I and I, I screwed you.
And he softened up a little bit and
he said, listen, I I understand what you're trying to do here. This whole. And he said that he did this with air quotes. He went this self cleansing. And I went, yeah, and I'm still crying. And he said this was a while ago. I don't know if there's anything we can do about it. And I'm not the guy. He said, I have to talk to my boss and see what my boss wants to do. And I gave him my information and where I was staying. And I said, you call me, you call the police, I'll be here. I'll go to the police station. I have no money right now. I brought the money that I had on me. I bring money when I make financial amends. And I had a lot because I'm a thief and
I am, it's true. And I, I had, you know, little money on me, but enough to start. And I told him I don't have enough to pay back the thousands that I owe you. And I'm still crying. And he said, I'm going to show this to my boss man. And he said, and we'll be in touch with you.
And I said, and I started walking out when I was about 10 paces away. And he said, Matt and I turned around and went and he said, if you don't hear from me, it's a good thing. If you don't hear from me, it means this was enough
and I never heard from him again. That was that. I was clean. I made the amends. I don't feel light my my amends for me. A lot of people talk about making amends and then I feel really cleansed. I feel really awful. I went to the cemetery,
I saw my father's grave. I finished making amends for me perfectly. I finished making a good amends. I feel really bad to be honest with you. I feel like I've been gutted. I find that's again spiritual experience because I get to look down the loaded barrel of the gun of reality. This is the physical manifestation of my selfishness in the real world. I really hurt people and guess what? They really hurt. And here was a mind blower for me. Ready. They hurt as much as I do. Never thought about that. But my, your pain is as real as my pain. I left crying and I went to go pray in a cemetery.
I had another amends to make
to a woman. I was in my mid 20s. I under a little recording studio very briefly because things started to disappear.
I made a record for her. She's a Christian lady. She there's a paragraph and we agnostics that really reminds me of her when it said how we've just written off these religious people were quick to see, you know, and again, happy, stable, useful. This is a woman who's happy, stable, useful, very, very religious woman. She would leave. She since I was in a bad place, she'd give me prayer cards. I'd go, oh, I'll put I'll read this later. I look forward to it. I used to look down my nose at her as she left and I'd say, isn't that cute? She's a little sheep,
you see. She's brainwashed herself into believing something that's not true because she's not strong enough to take a good look at what a human existence is really all about, whereas I'm dark and artistic and can do such things. You say it's cute that she's brainwashed herself. It's good. It's Orwellian in a way. It gives her comfort. Let her be stupid, thinking I'm all smart, right? If I was as smart as I thought I was, what I would have taken a look at is that this woman had happiness, stability and usefulness, things that I never had ever. She would go off to volunteer at Walpole Prison and do prison ministry and work with the elderly and I would go back to actively harming people
in drinking. Right. Who's the smart one? I went to go make amends to her. I owed her $500. I overcharged her. I took a loan out from her and I want to go make amends. And what happened was we got there and being a pretty spiritual lady, she, I came in, she started crying and she said, what did you? And I said, I got so and she wanted, she's one of these women who wanted to know about my spiritual experience. And I talked a little bit about it. And she took me out to her garden and she got on her knees with me and she prayed with me. She said, pray, I've been praying for you for years. I didn't see her. I've been praying for you. I knew God was going to help you
when I started crying. It's emotional. And we left and she said, I knew it. I knew that you were gonna find God. I knew he would help you. And I left and it was such a beautiful moment. And I left and I got in the car and I didn't feel like I see usually when I'm making amends, I feel gutted and disgusting. And this time I felt light on my feet like a feather. And I said that was so beautiful. In fact, it was such a beautiful moment. It wasn't even sullied by all this dirty talk of the money I owed her. We never talked about it. We never talked about it. I didn't put this together till much later. I left that area and I was in other place. And what happened was I was gone for a while.
I came back to visit my mother who lives near here. I do my morning spiritual practice, which is probably a lot like yours and I'm there and what happened and I don't know why it happened. Was I in the area? Did I see things that are mine of your I don't care God's will. I don't care to decipher it. It worked and I I got on my knees and what happened is I'm praying for God's will God Grammy knowledge you're willing to power cut it out today. And what happens is this woman's face comes in my head. Her name is Therese. And of course I did that thing where I was like praying go away, leave. And it happened to me a few days in a row. And I at the time, it kind
like maybe you need to go see her. You never really gave her that money. And I said, yeah, but it never came up. And I left and it haunted me. And I couldn't get her face out of my head. She haunted me day and night. You never made that amends. You're a phony. You get to go talk in front of groups of people. You get to go sit dies down and tell them to go make amends. And you haven't made this amends. You're a fraud and you're a phony. And it was killing me. It was eating me up inside. And I have to go home and say what happened is I came back to where my mom lives, which was very far from where I lived. And I went to Bank of America and I took $500 out of the bank immediately. And I went right to this woman's house. And I knocked on her door. And she came to the door and
said, Matt and I said, please don't let me talk. And before I could open my mouth, I gave her this envelope. And she said, what is it? I said, This is Money I owe you. And she said, what? She'd forgotten about this. This is not a wealthy woman, by the way, but she'd forgotten about this. She's that kind of person, right? Mind blower. A good person naturally don't have to work at it. And she said, come in. And we sat down. And when I said this woman had happiness, ability and usefulness, I'm going to tell you why that's impressive. Are you guys ready? She lives in a circus of alcoholism. I knew it because I used to hang out with people that lived with her, her family.
I ran with them. See, so that's impressive to me. It's not like her life was all roses every single day. I knew that I came to see her and a lot of things had fallen apart in her family. I gave her the money and she said I I forgot all about it. And she said I
thank you. And I said don't thank me. It's not my money, please just take it. It's not mine. You have to have it. And and something very beautiful and powerful happened. She said please come with me. She started crying. She had been divorced from her husband at this time. He left the news in bad shape. He still is. She took me to the refrigerator and she took her oil bill for the furnace off of the refrigerator and it was for something like 517. I don't remember, but it was about 20 bucks over 500. And she started crying and she said I had no way to pay it,
at which point I started crying again like a baby. And we hugged and prayed.
And, you know, people say, was that was that God's will? Was it, was it this thing? Was it meant to? I don't know. I'm not that smart. I'm I'm bound by the laws of metaphysics and what it means to be a human being. So I can't decode the universe again. Like these guys said tonight, I don't try. I don't need to. I just need to make use of this power in my life. Every day I cried when I felt that day, I felt gutted. I left her out that day. I felt gutted. I said, that's right. You had that that poor lady who's a good person out there doing the right thing. You had her money for all these years,
right? I made amends to my mother. I sat at my mom down and my mom. I found out I was looking for formal men's. I made a formal Mens to her.
My mother.
My mother told me what she wanted from me. A shocker. Ready. My mother does not want flowers. My mother does not want guilt gifts. My mom doesn't want a gift certificate for massage after I have robbed her. You know what I turned out? This my mom said. She said I just wanted you to be happy. I just wanted you to be a man. I said what do you mean? I wanted you to be able to take care of yourself, be happy, pay your own bills, be healthy. That's all I've ever wanted for you,
my living amends for me. Living amends don't mean not drinking and destroying your property. Normal people take that for granted. They do that every day. That's not enough for me. A living amends for me means I have to figure out how I want to make this right. Not living amends for my mother looks like this. My mother never knows the bad parts of my life. She never knows my problems. Ever. Ever. Ever, ever, ever.
For many years, my mom was my ambulance driver, my taxi driver, my lawyer, my bail agent, my psychologist, right? That wasn't her job.
And I realized something, you see,
I have a relationship with God and I have a sponsor. So when I have problems in my life, I have ways to deal with them. I don't have to tax my mom and bring them to her. So if I'm getting chased down the street by rabid pit bulls and my mom calls as far as she's concerned, hi honey, how are you? I'm up running. It's nice. You see some people said, is that lying to her? No see, because I figured out something about my mom. I, I need a new tires. The other day I went to go see a guy of mine that I sponsored and he's a tire guy. And he said, Maddie, these are bald. And I, I just mumbled something. She called me and I said, oh hey, can I call you back? I just found any new tires. It's going to be like 500 bucks. Call me back.
Didn't think about it. Three days later, I'm sending you a check for $50. I go. What are you talking about? You're on bald tires. You're driving around on bald tires. My mom's from Boston as I go. What? I didn't even think about it again. I forgot I was even on the phone when I mentioned it. But you see, for me, it's nothing. But you know what my mom does for three days? In her head, she suffers obsessive visions of me careening off of mountain roads in New Hampshire in a flaming pile of wreckage. I'm sending you $50.
No, no, no, no, no. I'm fine. You see, the other thing I do for my mom is I do this I once a week. What I do is I turn over remote controls. I turn off the Internet, which is hard. I turn over magazines and books. And I go to a dark corner of my house and the corners, a little couch right here. I sit, I pray, I call my mother and I say this. I say, hey mom, how you doing?
Shut up. And I listen
and I actually, and sometimes, don't get me wrong, I have to, I have to pray for mindfulness because my mom will say things like this. I love my mom. But you'll say you'll never believe what you haunt did. I will. It's the same shit every week. I know it's going to be you're never going to believe this. Listen to what you haunted and I OK, so I have to pray and she'll tell me what my aunt did. I can absolutely believe it. I go. That's unbelievable, mom. No, that's unbelievable. I can't. Yeah, no, she's she's ridiculous. You're right. I listen to my mother has to say. And if she wants to talk for half an hour at school, 20 minutes to school, whatever, she wants to talk. I don't say any word about myself. I'm doing good. I just want to see how you were. And I hang up the phone and I'll tell you this.
My mother, my mother went to Alon for many years. My mom cut off all contact with me, rightfully so. She changed the locks on her door. And she told me if I showed up her house again, she would call the police. The right thing to do. It saved my life. Because if she didn't do that, I would have died in her basement on her couch, probably eating her food. Guarantee it. My mother for for a long time didn't talk to me. That was the right thing to do. I'll tell you this, my relationship with my mother,
probably the thing I value most in my life today. I love my mother. I have a friendship, I have an adult relationship with my mother and that my mother doesn't give me things. I take care of my mother. She still fights me. We go to restaurant, she still tries to do it. She'll try to send me a check for my birthday. We fight over who pays every now and then. I just let her do it still feel like a mom, but I value my relationship with my family and especially my mother so much. It's hard for me to not cry when I talk about it, you know, And
that's one of the things I got back as a result of this process, as a result of changing, as a result of demonstrating
how would do it on time. I thought for a long time, we OK, we hitting it. We I'm going to talk really briefly. You guys hanging in there?
You hanging in there? Good. I'm gonna take a sip of coffee 'cause I'm fading.
I want to, I want to just my sense of my own personal satisfaction. Completion. Just talk somewhat brief, relatively briefly. We will say about 10:11 and 12:00
ten step from me, I think it was you guys on the panel. We're talking about a written 10 step. I take a written 10 step when selfish, you know, when resentment pops up, when fear, when I need to take conduct inventory. I do that. I I have friends who don't write their ten step.
They're spiritually fit people. I respect them very much.
I can only wonder, though, I got to be honest with you, how much growth they may have missed. Because I'll tell you this, for me personally,
I've grown tremendously in the 10th step and I grow tremendously as a result of having to put that stuff down. It makes me be much more thorough, you see, for me to do little mental acrobatics and say, yeah, I was dishonest because of this and that it's too quick for me.
My head will spin things. I need to put it down on the piece of paper. I take it to another person that I trust. I read it to them and the magic thing happens. I hear myself say it and I go, wow, you are selfish and wormy, you better stop. And there's a magic to me. It makes it real. And by the way, I read my inventory, you know, most of the time the same person. So I'm accountable to them and someone I trust in the steps from my line of sponsorship. When I read that to them, they say, hey, you know what, man? Two months ago you were kind of talking about the same thing. What were you praying for?
How do you change? What have you done in the past two months since the last time you read me the same inventory? Have you changed anything around that? Have you had that conversation with them? No.
Why did you expect anything to change? I don't know,
my last gig before I move back to the States, I was teaching a certification course and my boss, I took a job for this guy. This guy was, I knew who he was when I came into the job, you know, I knew he was, let's say, thrifty and he's, he kind of skimped on things that he probably should have skimped on. But I knew I got, I knew that getting into it. What happened is I showed up one day and the computer printer wasn't working and I'm teaching a certification course where I have to observe these guys teach at the end of the day and give them grades and whatnot. I'm not qualified to do this. I can just talk well and for a long time and
I rigged up the printer
so that these guys could print out their lesson plans and I came in the next day and I'm a hero. I saved the day and I got a note on there saying next time that you tamper with it equipment, you will be fined 1000 crowns, which is about 50 bucks. I am red in the face. I save the day man and you're going to find me and So what I did is I sat down and I'm about had it for this guy. I wrote this scathing letter of resignation. I say resignation. It was more like A7 page personal attack in insane diatribe telling him about all the shit I put up with. And what I did was when I feel hot like that, when I feel my pulse in my face, when I
myself getting I know I don't make good decisions. We talk about freedom from the bondage of self. When I am hot with anger and resentment, I am a slave to resentment. I want relief. And how do I get relief? I get relief by telling you what I think about you. Or probably in my case, I'm going to tell her what I think about you and then I'm going to tell him and I'll get them on my side and eventually will leak back to you, you see. So I hit draft instead of send
and I went home and I wrote a piece of inventory and I realized something. I wrote that piece of 10 step and I looked at my my selfishness and my dishonesty and you know the truth. Is this what I realized over the course of working for this guy?
Because he did things that I found to be acceptable? What I started to do was the things that I didn't really want to do at work anymore, I didn't do, essentially giving myself a raise in a way.
I knew who I was working for and I knew his business practices, and I worked for him anyway. And then I want to reserve the right to complain about it. And the truth is, what I came up in the end of this inventory was I either accept the terms of employment for this man or I leave. That's it.
Anything else is less than honest. And what I also came up with this inventory is
this job has some hassles in it, but name me a job that doesn't. And the truth is the good far outweigh the bad in this job. I enjoyed the gig. I had to put up with some stuff from my boss who doesn't. I came in the next day, I read the inventory, I prayed, I read that letter and I went. I am really glad I didn't send that, especially because I really need a job,
Really a job around the 11th step, prayer and meditation. Everyone has their own thing. The book is really beautiful. It invites us to go out. The world is filled with spiritual literature. It has changed my life. One of the instructions I got before I took a third step from my sponsor was to
quite inventory and he gave me a list of books to read. I went into the borders in San Diego. I just picked 1 randomly off there. That changed my life forever and really let me do this work. I opened this book in the first page, lit up like it was on fire. This has happened to me other times with spiritual literature. The words said this and this is a guy who was struggling with the second step. It said so long as you pretend to live in pure autonomy without even a God to rule over you, you will inevitably end up the alienated member of a group or the servant of another man.
Paradoxically, it is the acceptance of God as your master that will set you free from yourself
in human tyranny.
How did I randomly open to that page? I don't know, but it happened.
Meditation. I wake up early every morning. It's inconvenient for me. I don't like it. I have AI have a regimen. I do. I go to the bathroom first. I,
I put the coffee on and then I go take out my cushion and I meditate and I do it before I have coffee or breakfast or check my e-mail because I know what's going to happen. You see, if I go and I look at any of this business, it's going to detract me from doing spiritual work. And the truth is, in the end, we all know in this room it takes discipline to do spiritual work. The correct use of the wills along spiritual lines
I may groom in my life because I'm not a guy who is full of all sorts of natural willpower.
As I already said around the 12th step, I've been very blessed in my life to be able to be a a link in this chain of goodwill and show other people what I have done. I've got a chance to work with a lot of guys, a lot of guys getting out of prison in early sobriety. And I've got to sit them down
and read them the instructions in this book and convey my personal experience in this thing to them. And not many of them got well. But if you did, and I'll tell you this, one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen in my life, the most beautiful thing I've ever seen in my life is a human being change and find God. Because before I did this work, I will be honest with you, I did not believe it was possible for a human being to change. I wouldn't say that out loud because you sound like a real bummer at parties when you say stuff like that. But I didn't believe it. And then what happened is I did this and I changed profoundly. And the guy that you see here,
we wouldn't recognize the other guy. Get my mom on speakerphone. She'll attest to it, right?
Took me a long time, but finally one of these guys made it through the work and I got to see another human being change, find God, walk this path, right? What a privilege. What a privilege for me to be in that position where I get to be a link again, It's not me getting them sober. We all know that, But for me to be able to use my experience to benefit someone else, that's alchemy, right? That's something magic right there. And for me to be here right now is, is really magic as well. Again, it's, it's a trip for me. Sometimes it snaps me back. I said, how did this happen, right?
I did a little bit of work and then the spark of grace came in and life is really, really good. Thank you guys all again so very much for having me here and let me be a service. I really appreciate your hospitality. Thank you.
Thank you.
From For a minute there, I thought he was telling my story.
Nate, would you like to come back up?
So I'm meeting. I'm an alcoholic. Thank you, Matt, for being with us tonight, for speaking. We got your little gift. Something to remember Montana by and
so.
Thanks again Matt, wonderful story. I was asked to read this by the people that set this up.
When this event started it started out small. As of today, every group or meeting in.