Steps four and five at the San Diego Intergroup's Serenity Retreat in San Diego, CA

12 step programs, Alcoholics Anonymous. The official birth date is June 10, 1935. Well, they checked the AMA records and the convention. Doctor Bob's last drink could not have been June 10th. It was probably more like June 17th because, you know, based on the timeline when the convention occurred. And that's the point I got abstinent somewhere

in Paris in the fall. May have been September and maybe in October 1st. I don't know

you and I didn't care because I didn't think I was

establishing my abstinence state, you know, or I'm someday I'm going to be a circuit speaker for away and I'm going to do, you know. David didn't think they were founding a movement. They didn't think they were founding the fellowship of a A. There was no a A. They both have been given spiritual instruction in the Oxford groups. There was no a A. They weren't thinking that this is going to be the founding date of a A and Doctor Bob's last string. They had no idea.

They were too helpless, terrified, scared drunks. And let me put it in a historical perspective for you.

It's a little bit like penicillin actually. It's kind of very coincidentally coeval or diaconically parallel to penicillin. Penicillin was discovered by this guy named Fleming who basically just discovered it, kind of like Frank Bookman discovered the Ashra group where started it and then it was kind of perfected by other people. And by the time World War Two came around the 40s, it had been mass produced so that it could save life,

lives. And they called it a miracle drug

because before penicillin, if you had septicemia, blood poisoning or

low bar pneumonia, you know, or a zillion other diseases, you died. You died, end of the story. You know, you know, you might make it through the night and mother, but you know, get the kids prepared for tomorrow morning. He probably won't make it through the morning. After penicillin, you might live. So what do they call it? The miracle drug, the antibiotics starting with penicillin. There were other ones that came afterwards, of course, but they were called miracle drugs because before antibiotics, you,

you died, after antibiotics you could live. And it was started somewhere in the 20s, perfected in the 30s, and by the 40s it was out into the mass market, distributed

Alcoholics Anonymous, started by this Lutheran minister named Frank Bookman early like nineteen O 8. Somewhere around then, I think he'd sobered up his first drunk, a guy named William Guillaume, whose nickname was Bill Pickle. That's where the expression comes from. He got pickled, you know, he was, he was sobered up

early on. What the heck is this? OK. And

he started this Oxford Group movement, which I'm going to talk about a little bit. And then

Bill and Bob are clinging to each other, two helpless, terrified drunks who've been attending a few Oxford meetings, Oxford Group meetings back in, in June of 1935. And they, that's who all they were, is terrified drunks. They did not. They weren't keeping track of the dates.

That's my point. So the point is that the drunks may have got their own birthday to their fellowship screwed up. They also checked the big book and in the I did bring my big print book, Thank God. In the back, of course, is the famous thing in the spiritual appendix, which says that there's something that will keep you

in everlasting ignorance, and that is contempt prior to investigation, Right?

Has everybody heard that famous quote? It's in our book on page. Well, I have a 4th edition here. I think it's on page 570. I think this is a 4th edition,

3rd edition. I'm sorry. Maybe in a different page in the 4th edition, but it's a 567 in the 4th. Which page

at the end of it? There's a quote there, and it's italicized. There's a principle which is a bar against all information, which is a proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance. That's contempt prior to investigation attributed to William Spencer.

Well, the boys in the a history group did research. They went through all William Spencer's right, Herbert Spencer's writings. They couldn't find it. They actually think it was William Paley, a British theologian, who said it. So there's a misquote in the big book and our own birthday screwed up. We don't. The drunks can't even get their own birthday right. Why? Because nobody was establishing an organized religion. Or, you know,

they're just helpless, terrified people trying to survive.

And the point is, before 1940 or whatever, if you got blood poisoning, you died. After 1940, Penicillins out into the marketplace, you can live. Before 1935, you had alcoholism, you died. It's kind of like AIDS, right? In the late 70s, early 80s. I remember this one guy in the program up in Marin. He was a good guy. He was a gay guy, used to come to our meetings and

we hadn't seen him for a while and he showed up. He was going on with you and he said, well,

you know, I was diagnosed with AIDS and wow, what happened? Well, the doctor told me to go home and make up, make out your will. That's what the doctor told him back in the 80s. That's what AIDS was like. You developed AIDS, you died. Now they can live. They have drugs,

alcoholism, 1935. Before 1935, he had alcoholism. You die. OK, Before Roseanne established our fellowship in the 60s, right? She was smart enough to say, hey, maybe this 12 step stuff will work for us. Right before 1960, you had compulsive overeating. What are you going to do? You're going to go up to 300 lbs. You're going to die of a heart attack. I was talking to someone earlier

and quite frankly, the number one health problem today in the United States of America

is over overeating. It's obesity. It's just like when the when the alcoholic gets dies in a car crash, he's stabbed in a bar fight. He he dies in prison, he hangs himself in prison or he's run over or killed in a car crash. The death certificate does not say alcoholism. It says car crash, gunshot wound, suicide. But his real malady is alcoholism. So in our society today, compulsive over eating, morbid obesity is the number one health

problem. If the death certificate is going to say diabetes, stroke,

heart attack, you know, pulmonary embolism, aortic aneurysm, it's going to say, you know, stress related, whatever it's going to say.

Yeah it. But it's really compulsive. Over eating. People are not they're slowly committing suicide with food. OK. I had an anorexic sponsee, went down to 78 lbs, died in the hospital.

She calling her food plan. See, This is why I really don't sponsor anorexis because she's calling like 2 turnips and a carrot or something. I go, Margaret, don't you want to put a little protein in that food plant? So finally I had to go to my sponsor. I said I don't get what's this? And my sponsor Tamara looks at me says Roy, Margaret's anorexic. I mean, don't you understand that? You know, I said, you know, I just not, I had to fire her because I knew I couldn't help her. I couldn't,

couldn't call her on her stuff. That's why I don't sponsor women today. I mean,

it's not the woman's fault. It's my problem. You know, if they're really super good looking, I always got a hidden agenda going on. And even if they're I'm not attracted to them for whatever reason, I'm too nice to them. I can't pull their covers. You know, I don't get the feminine psychology. I'm too, too gentle with them. They need another woman that can see through their BS and pull their covers. That's why I don't sponsor women. I'm too kind to them. Another woman will say, Now look, you know,

you know what you're doing.

See, I can't do that. See, just like I couldn't figure out the anorexic. I'm not an anorexic. So I am an exercise bulimic though. But

the bottom line is that this program is miraculous, like penicillin. Before 1935 you had one of these character disorders called the addictions. You died, OK, and and they just adopted the 12 steps for compulsible reading in the 60s and for gambling, and for cocaine and for heroin, and for sex and love addiction and for compulsive debtting.

But the bottom line is the character, the addictions,

and this is in that book by what's his name? F Scott Peck Fitzgerald. I don't know. I could never get his name right. What's his name? Yeah, he's, he's a psychiatrist. He worked in addiction for the military for a long time. And he says the addictions fall into the realm of character disorders because of the neurotic always knows he's sick. He's he likes going to therapy. You know, Woody Allen's the famous comic example he's always talking about. He's gone. The third, the character disorder of the addiction. They're in denial. They pretend

don't have the problem. They they don't. They don't want to confront the problem. They don't want to deal with the problem. And all these addictions

fall into the realm, psychiatrically speaking, as character disorders. But we're not a therapeutic psychiatric group. We say, and this is my position too, because it's the official position. This is a spiritual malady, okay? If I don't get enough out of life and enough peace and serenity

out of myself, I'm going to turn to half a gallon of Haagen Dazs. It's that simple. It's a spiritual malady and I need to get spiritually connected.

One of our members at breakfast was came out to me and said, what's the name of that book by Sam Shoemaker again, Twice born ministers. And I mentioned another book, Twice Born Men by a guy named Begby BE GB Y and she said, oh, you recommend those two books? I said, no, I don't. I like the thing that Jay S pulled out of that one thing about the four obstacles that blocked me to God because I thought that was really important. But I don't recommend all this 12 step history stuff

because that's not what keeps me abstinent.

OK, What keeps me abstinent? It might be of interest to you and it's it might help me understand what's going on here in this process a bit more. Maybe I maybe that does help me when I work with others. My knowledge of 12 step history does not keep me abstinent. What keeps me abstinent is my willingness to go to somebody I hate

and ignore what they did to me and say, you know, I'm here to clean up my side of the street. I owe you an apology or how can I set this right? How can I make this amend? You know, I regret these ill feelings I held towards you. If you look in the book it took me, I actually, I read this many times, but you know, sometimes I'll read something. I might even be a book study and be talking about it,

and I really don't know what the hell it is I'm saying

until I've actually internalized it. It's not an intellectual program. It's got to go. Not from here into the heart. You know, we speak the language of the heart

and it talks when you're going to make amends. It says on page 77 it is harder to go to an enemy than to a friend, but we find it much more beneficial to us. We go to him in a helpful and forgiving spirit. So that's the spirit I I better have

when I approached somebody to make the amend. If not, maybe I may be, you know, I'd need to do a little bit more 6-7 and eight work. You know, pray for the willingness to forgive this person.

We confess our former ill feeling and express expressing our regret. It's on page 77 in this middle paragraph here. OK, it's at the bottom there.

We confess our former ill feeling. You know how this program started this in OA and every other program and a it started with Frank Bookman saying I've harbored ill feelings against you. I'm sorry. That was the original amend. That was the amend that started it all. He confessed his ill feelings and expressed regret

because he felt, oh by the way, the 12 step programs started over food, a food issue. It wasn't how much it well, it was how much they were eating. There's also who's paying the tab. The whole program started when Frank Bookman, who's as a Lutheran minister and felt he had the calling and he wanted to go out and convert people to his

higher power, which is Christianity. Of course, we don't have. We don't sell one Higher power fits all here.

You get to choose your own.

He felt he was going to be a Christian minister and it was his job to go out there and spread the good word.

And one of the early things he did, he would go on missionary trips. He went to Germany and he saw some of these German Christian groups have the, I think they were Lutheran. He was a Lutheran. He was Pennsylvania Dutch, which is usually Swiss, Swiss, German, German, but they were Lutherans. He was an American. He was born here, but he traveled to Germany and saw that, the German Lutheran said, started these youth hostels outside of slums and they were trying to get like kids who had came from alcoholic families or,

you know, deprived their poverty stricken family. They try and get them into some Christian principles. They take them into these hostels kind of, you know, healthy life, maybe get them out of the slums, feed them decently, give them a little religious instruction, give them some familiar paternal guidance, you know.

And he thought it was a great thing, this hostile movement. It's not hostile in the sense today where we travel around and stay in these hostels. I actually did that in Australia. I had a good time. I stayed at the hospital in Byron Bay.

The original hostels were kind of retreat centers or what would you call them Boys home? Something like that, You know what I'm saying? Where you're trying it? Wasn't there a famous guy who had a father, son, Flanagan or somebody had a boy's home? Yeah, right.

They would try to get these kids out of unhealthy environments, get them in a healthier environments, treat them decent, give them some decent food, give them some exercise and give them some spiritual principles, usually along whatever spiritual line you know. I guess it was father flying. It must have been Catholic. The the hostels in Germany were Lutheran. So Bookman comes back and decides this is a great idea. I'm going to start a youth hostel outside of Philadelphia, get these kids out of the slums, get them out into the country, give them some spiritual prison they're going to. And one of the things he uses to attract

kids was he'd feed him well, especially breakfast, you know, pancakes, stuff that we wouldn't consider too cool, you know, pancake syrup, a lot of bacon, you know,

and he did, you know, these guys are like their fathers spending all the money on booze and he's not feeding the family. They're glad to get a decent meal. So he attracted and he had, I think he had two running at one time. He got two hostels organized. They were his babies, you know, Now there was a board at Lutheran Synod. There was a board of directors that was in charge, you know, because that's the way it goes in organized religion. Usually somebody's up at the top. We don't have that in 12 step programs. Thank God. You know the the inmates are running the asylum here. But

there was a supervisory board of Lutherans

and they were, you know, they had a board of directors. I guess it was nonprofit organization. Bookman was the CEO. He was running the things. And they decide there was a financial pullback, you know, and they decided we have to cut back on expenses for these youth hostels. And they decided there's we're spending too much money on food.

And, you know, Bookman just absolutely went through ballistic on this. They were his babies. And the food was one way he would lure the people in, lured the kids in, the boys. And he thought this was right out of Oliver Twist, you know, in no more parts for you, pal. He just was outraged. How could Christians do this? And he got into this big fight with the board of directors who controlled the poor purse strings and ran the operation or, you know, the ultimate power. He was the day-to-day guy

who and they were his babies. You know this is my hostel. I started here. You know my idea ego, right? He gets into and damn it, the cops are resentment. He resigns in a huff, sends nasty letters to all the board members about how unchristian they are and how dare you. You know this is right on. Oliver Twist pisses off to England or Europe at least, and for some missionary work.

And this resentment is driving him nuts,

you see, and his families, I think maybe this guy should be committed. He is just not. And he's over there trying to be a missionary. And he's gone to all these, you know, convocations and conventions and retreats, I guess whatever they would call them in those days.

And, you know, he's trying to be a missionary and he can't make one single convert. Not one single convert wants what he has. And he, this is pissing him off big time because that was his whole life, man. I'm going to be a, I'm going to be a big. I guess he wanted to be like Billy Graham or somebody. He had some ego. You know, this guy actually really did. He was kind of megalomaniacal that at Kemson later why we had to leave the Oxford Groups

and

he finally he's at a Kensington, England. I think it was Kensington or Kenilworth thing, I forget the name of it. It might be in here.

Let me see if I can find this damn thing here.

Oh boy.

He's in this place in England.

This is it. Yeah, I duplicated it.

He's in this place in England, and he's listening to a Salvation Army Speaker.

This is from Jay Stennett's Spiritual History Workshop,

and

this was Bookman.

He started, but before this happened,

he was over in England and he can't figure out why he can't make There's Frank Bookman. He can't figure out why he can't get a a convert. And he's finally listening to a Salvation Army. Speaker And I think it was a woman. Speaker They did. They figured out it was a lady. Speaker And she's standing in front of a big cross. You know, we got the the post and then you got the cross beam of a cross. You know, it's a crucifix. It was in the back.

This Kenilworth or Kensington, I forget the name of it. It's probably in here somewhere. There is Keswick. Excuse me. Keswick, England. He stand. He's in Keswick, England. Can you? Oh, we can't see this.

Dim the lights a little bit. Is it possible

and

does that help?

Excuse me, I've got some phlegm issues here. If you hear me snorting, it's because I'm. I take some medicine and it's got a little bit of a side effect. Yeah.

He's in Keswick. They had this big spiritual retreat there every year. And they were like big main speaker guys, you know, the Billy Graham's of the day. You know, they had Dwight Moody and all these characters who were famous evangelists. You know, you gotta realize back in the 20s and 30s, people were much more religious, especially in this country. It really was a big deal with church. It went to whether you were Catholic or Protestant, God forbid, Jewish, and you know,

it was a bigger deal. They had a religious section in the New York Times.

People read Emmett Fox. Emmet Fox was, you know, who was a spiritual guy. And we got a computer guy here, which is always good.

What are you trying to do, make it a big window? That's what I was at. Full screen

on view up in the right hand corner, zoom, maybe under zoom full screen.

Does that help? It does help. You did something you can do the arrows here, like the arrows.

All right. So he sees his salvation now. There were the big speakers and then there was like little side events going on, you know, like we're up here, Sherrys over there, you know. Well, this lady Salvation Army speakers in one of the smaller chapels, not not a big thing. And she's speaking and Frank Bookman is listening. He's kind. He's still in his pissed off state. You can't make any converts. He's desperately trying to re get his conscious contact with his higher power

and suddenly he had a spiritual experience, the eye of the cross being that the post suddenly started coming out at him and it's like the cross part disappeared or faded into the background. Suddenly like the the eye, the the and he it was a message to him from his God, from his higher power.

The problems in me. It's not these guys who did this terrible Oliver Twist thing to the kids. It's not anybody else's problem. I'm the problem why I can't make the converts. He went home preyed on it and wrote the the letter that started it all off, which is said I've harbored I'll feelings towards you. Forgive me. I think that's what it was. Yeah, it it wasn't. I'm sorry it was I've harbored ill feelings for you. Forgive me.

He realized that as a Christian, he could not afford to harbor resentment. Now, in our book, it tells us with us compulsive overeaters, this business of resentment is infinitely more grave. It's a life or death matter. For us to overeat is to die. Okay,

so here's a guy that wasn't even an addict or an alcoholic or compulsive overeater and it was killing him. A resentment was driving him nuts, you know, and he, and he was frustrating his entire life. But for us, this business of resentment is fatal, says our book. Because we're going to eat over it. If I hate you, I'm going to eat at you. It's that simple. So he realized the problem was him, and he made the men that started it all.

And from this,

um, here's the first alcoholic that he ever got sober in the Oxford Group. Where the hell is it?

I passed it. There's Sam Shoemaker, by the way. That was Bill Wilson's real sponsor. Ebby was drinking by 1937 while the book was being written in 38, published in 39. Ebby was not Bill Wilson's. Given Bill Wilson's spiritual destruction, Abby was taken spiritual instruction from a bottle of muscatel. This was Bill Wilson's real sponsor.

He was an Episcopal minister and by and coincidentally or maybe not is it odd or is it God is my buddy Dan S says the church that he was the Episcopal minister of officially was the Cavalry church in downtown Manhattan was was a very high tone Episcopal Church that the Hazard family was a member of Roland Hazards. The guy that went to Doctor Young and Young said you're going to die,

give it up, you know, go home, make out your will. Is there no hope, Doctor? Well, there is a hope. There's once in a while there's a spiritual experience.

And so a Hazard went out to find a spiritual experience and he found

there's the Calvary Church in Manhattan.

Let's see, where the hell?

Where the hell is the first? I missed that. There he is. William Guillaume,

the Oxford Group with Bookman, makes the amend. He changes. OK, He changes by making that amend, writing that letter, I harbored your feelings against you. Forgive me. He changes the eye in himself the next day, makes his first convert.

OK. And that's how the Oxford Group started. OK. And then he went on. By the time he was appointed,

like the, I guess the chaplain at Penn State University, Penn State and Nittany Lions up there, they had a reputation of, you know, if they're going to show up to a football game, half of them will be drunk. I mean, they were like the the clowns of the of the American colleague. They were. They were just this rollicking, raucous, you know, Animal House type campus,

lot of drunken. Now this is a big deal. Back in the early days of the century, people were Christians, You know, the YMCA is the Young Men's Christian Association. People were religious. Remember, prohibition passed right after the World War One. You know, in the 20s. This was a very, very different or maybe it's not so different. A lot of people anyway,

they'll, they'll Guillaume Bill Pickle was a, was a local bootlegger who's selling moonshine to the students

and,

and Bookman got him into a spiritual practice and sobered him up.

Umm, this program is the original six step program. It was not used by the Oxford group. They had no steps in the Oxford Groups. The alcoholic squadron of the Oxford Groups

use this, these six steps which Bill basically expanded into our 12 step process. OK,

And you can see the kernel of our process in here. We got to hit bottom with the food. You know, we usually don't get here because we're on a we're hop skipping and jumping on a run. It's usually like I can't stop eating, Like I'm on my knees eating. I don't know, my 20th carob covered granola bar of the day with six months of sobriety behind me and no abstinence and my childhood disease, my first drug. Remember, I was fat since the age of seven.

I wasn't drunk till the age of well, I couldn't even get it really till I was 16. But

food was my first drug. So here I am on my knees saying when I get back to Miami, I got to get to this OA thing. I, I'm, I'm beaten down by the food. I got to get honest with myself. I got to get honest with another,

which means I make an inventory in a confession. OK, you can see step four and five there. Make amends 6789. Help others without demand. That's 12. Pray to God as you understand Him. That's basically 3,

10:00 and 11:00. So you see, they're out of order and

Bill wrote our book.

This is the well, these were, this is now let me get clear about this. I'm going to show you what was from the Oxford Group. This was the six step program that the Alcoholics within the Oxford Groups were doing.

And it's in, by the way, it's mentioned in our book, at least in the 3rd edition,

263.

Yeah. Well, you know, they were. Here's the point. And this is something I get into with a book thumpers all the time have. Somebody was talking earlier about the big book awakening and all that. Dan Sherman gave me a box of those. I'm a fellow traveler with that group. I sit in a meeting with Dan Sherman every Thursday. I caught the annual book study in Santa Monica. We go through the book paragraph by paragraph,

but the truth of the matter is, and they don't like to admit it because in my opinion, they kind of make this the higher power. And as heard, how many of you heard of Herb K, Herb Kagan, right? You know this stuff.

He goes through the book, takes him a whole year usually to get through the book. He's a good guy. But as Sandy Beach, my favorite circus speaker, says, don't confuse the treasure map with the treasure. The treasure is your contact with your higher power. If you're on a treasure hunt, I can give you verbal instructions. You go 300 yards up. You go 5 paces to the right. You look where the palm tree throws its shadow.

Then walk 15 feet up from that turn left two feet

and dig there. And if you can remember my instructions and keep it straight, maybe you get to the treasure. Now. Don't you think it be better though, if I wrote out a map and said you go 300 feet and they'll go up and I put, you know, northwest S on it so you know where you are. There's a landmark, the little church to the left, 300 feet to the right and I'm

and X marks the spot. Now what's better to have the verbal instructions or have it a written treasure map? You want the treasure map, right? But it's still not the treasure. It's the map how to get to the treasure. See now the book thumpers, they almost, they almost develop a neurotic religiosity about the book. They had a spiritual experience with this paragraph. I had a spiritual experience with God.

OK, the book is the map. It gives me a set of directions

that if I do these things,

I make contact and that's the treasure. So before we had our book,

they were using a word of mouth program, which is in your what to in your 4th edition is on what page

you just mention it.

263 I have a third edition. It's on 292 and the 3rd edition. But 263 and the 4th edition, probably most of you have. The 4th edition

of this story tells the original 6 steps that Doctor Bob told this gentleman. Now this happens to be a man called Earl Treat. It was an early Acron A member. See, I'm one of those guys that actually knows who the hell these people are.

You know the the a history website cat geeks. And you've never seen geeks till you've seen a history geeks. You think Star Trek geeks are geeks? You should go to an archivist convention sometime. Well, I got every second edition got.

I mean, they're they're anal about it. But this I know that this is Earl treat. He was an early guy. Good work. The steps with Bob

and he's got in his It says complete deflation, dependence and guidance upon a higher power, moral inventory, confession, restitution. Continue work with other Alcoholics, other compulsible readers. The point is, it was all verbal before they had the book. They were given verbal instructions to the treasure on the treasure hunt. Now we write a treasure map, but it's still not the treasure, it's the map. You dig it?

The Oxford Groupers did not have the Six Step program. They didn't think drunks were that important. They'd been sobering up drunk since 1903.

Bill Gilliam, The Oxford Group has something else.

This is

the Oxford groups steps. They didn't comp steps, but this is from I think it's from either what is the Oxford Groups or one of their other early books. You can get some of these things and reprints from Hazelden. They're like 15 to 20 bucks if if, but like I said, I don't recommend this. This is just history. It it helps me understand this process though

it really does. This is this is how they started the sharing of our sins and temptations with another Christian life given to God

and you sharing as witness to help others see

surrender. What was it surrender our life past, present, future and gods keep you in direction. You can see that in our 11th step restitution. All we have wronged that's our men steps right there listening to accepting rely on God's guidance and carrying it out and everything we do is great or small. See, that's our 10th and 11th step right there.

Um, they also, yeah, they had this God, as you understand him. Don't think AA came up with this or OA. You know, Ebby by the time and one of the things I'm going to play for you today, and I hope you get a kick out of this. That's why I brought the speakers is the original 12 step call. Anybody interested here in the original 12 step call and this I learned a lot from this. See the book thumpers don't want to listen to this. They only want to read the book. It's in the book, the book of the book. They're so focused on the book,

why would I let some guru tell me what this means when I listen to the guy that wrote it tell me what it means?

You know the power is not in the book. The book is my treasure map,

but

let's see here,

here. Remember, lack of power is our dilemma. Victor Kitchen I'm not sure this guy was a real alcoholic. He might have been a heavy drinker. He was on the business man's committee of the Oxford Group

and he wrote a book called I Was a Pagan. It's very expensive

because I think they're they haven't reprinted it yet. So you're selling like the real thing for 100 and some bucks. But you can get like an Adobe thing online and download and print it out if you want. Remember, what's the book say? Lack of power is my dilemma. Doesn't say

Sara Lee is my dilemma. Or, you know, Winchell's Donuts is my dilemma, or, you know, Pizza Hut is my dilemma. Says lack of power is my dilemma.

The Oxford Group out of power did not have, they said, or that I could have it just as they did if I would pay the same price, comply with the same conditions, and go through the same series of exceedingly simple steps. This is what they had as their spiritual principles. Confidence, confession, conviction, conversion, and continuance. Confidence. First thing I have to do is tell you my story, right? Like I did last night. You're not going to listen to me unless you think this guy ate like me or as bad as me or he felt like me or as bad as I feel.

You see, I got to gain your confidence. That's why I tell you my story. This is all expressed by the way, in our own program. Except you just you don't even realize that we got this from somewhere. You see, confession. Well, this is the 4th and 5th step. You're going to hear it when I play the tape conviction. I got to show you that I am transformed. OK, I read that to you on from page 18 last night

and I've taken to reading this to my sponsees.

You know, I've taken the reading this that the man who was making the approaches had the same difficulty that he obviously knows what he is talking about. That his whole deportment shouts at the new prospect that he is a man with a real answer. That he has no attitude of holier Now, nothing would ever except the sin designed to be helpful. That there are no access to no fees to pay, no access to grind, no people to please, no lectures to be endured. When a Frank Buckman's early admon

to his people in the Oxford Group was when the argument lose the man. In other words, if you start arguing with somebody who's got different spiritual convictions than you, or maybe a different higher power, you'll lose them. You'll never going to get him into this way of life. When the argument lose the man. I don't argue with people. You don't want to open the big book, Don't open the big book. You don't want to pray, Don't pray. You don't want to get a food sponsor. OK, don't get a food sponsor.

That's not my experiences. That's not going to help you,

but I'm not here to tell you what to do

OK, continuous you practice these principles in all your affairs. See this was the original spiritual principles in the Oxford Group. One of the reasons we left the Oxford Group and Bill has an address towards a Catholic organization where he goes into detail. I I don't know if I brought that with me. It's too long to read anyway. But he basically the thing about the Oxford groups is not only were they Christians and sectarians,

OK,

but they wanted you to get too good too fast. You know, Christianity has that thing about, you know, they got sex and they got this and they got that and you don't curse, you don't play poker, you know, you know, you don't go to the dog track. They, they say everything you do. You should filter them through this filter of is it absolutely honest? Is it absolutely pure? Is it absolutely unselfish? Is it absolutely loving

and they wanted you to become very St. like very quick. There are nothing wrong with these spiritual principles. That's one thing I want Clarence Snyder, one of the early a pioneers and a lot. And by the way, they still the Akron, the Akron inner groups still publishes the four absolutes in their local literature. And OK,

so there's nothing wrong with these spiritual principles.

The problem is

a drunk's coming in or compulsive overeater. You know, she's

£300, he's just given up ice. You know, she's now down to reading three whole chickens a day. That's her abstinence 'cause that's the best she can do. This is not a person I'm gonna ask to be a St. overnight. The Oxford Groups really wanted this conversion experience where you kind of became a Christian overnight, you know. And Bill says, man, this is too fast, too much, too soon for an out for a drunk. And he says, you know, so if this is one of the reasons we left the Oxford Group, there's nothing wrong with these

principles. If you can, if you everything I did, if I was everything I did, I was able to. Am I being absolutely honest now with the DMV,

with my insurance company? Was I absolutely on purity? I'm looking at this little newcomer chick. Am I absolutely thinking her in the purest terms now when I offer to be her sponsor, you know,

unselfishness, you know? Well, God damn it, man, where's my eggs? You know, And she ate the last of the eggs.

Am I absolutely being loving

that bastard? He's talking again. I got to listen to this, you know, So, you know, I mean, if, if I could filter my life through these spiritual principles, I'd probably be a much better, right? But Bill correctly deduced that the chances of getting some Skid Row drunk, you know, who's basically still shaking into this spiritual frame of mind overnight is very, very slim. And none.

They held on to it in Akron.

You know, there's a, the old, one of the oldest divergences of opinion, you might say in our program is if you do go through the steps and make all your amends, can you live on 1011 and 12 without ever having to go through, you know, 456789 again? And Clarence Snyder, who held on to these absolutes even after we left the Oxford groups. He was an early pioneer. He came in in Cleveland and Doctor Bob was his sponsor in Akron. He started the Cleveland group and pulled a A out of the Akron

groups

in 1939 because the book was out. And he said, yeah, I only go through the steps once. And I lived the rest of my life on 1011 and 12. And he held on to this and he was, he died sober 40, a great a, a pioneer, great guy. One of my favorite speakers, Clarence S. His tapes are all over the Internet. I'll show you where to get all these things for fun and for free. If you don't already know, Paul Martin, who died recently, was 60 years of sobriety. It's like the Godfather. The book Thumpers in Chicago,

it really fascinating guy, ex professional wrestler and boxer. He had a hell of a crazy wildlife, but he was great. Very good sense of humor. He said the worst advice he ever got in the program is you only need to go through the steps once. He used to go through the steps at that point every year he'd go through the steps. The book Thumpers that I fell travel with in Santa Monica, they've been working the steps with each other. Now they go through the steps at least once a year,

starting on page one.

Do what you need to do if you can live on 10 and 11:00 and 12:00. What happens with me is I'll usually create some page 52 wreckage in my life and decide, well, I better go through the steps again, the shits hitting the fan. But Bill Wilson says in the 12 and 12, some of our members go through into go in for annual, semi annual house cleanings, which mean they're, they're doing the steps

or at least the 4th and 5th and maybe some amends maybe once a year or once every six months.

Do what you want. I don't tell anybody else what to do. You work it out for yourself. That's one of the greatest things about 12 step programs. Nobody can tell you what to do. We suggest you get a food sponsor. We suggest you get on a food plan. We suggest that if you're binging on bread, maybe you ought to get, at least for the time being, put eggs on your breakfast instead of bagels or whatever on your food plant. You know we suggest things, but nobody can tell you what to do.

They were a fellowship.

They were attempting to lead a spiritual life without rules or a hierarchy. Did it? Actually what happened was it's kind of like 12 step programs. They got some people who are considered leaders like Bookman and Shoemaker who was Bookmans right hand man. There were people in the New York group who told Bill Wilson, you know, you ought to be up there with Victor Kitchen on the businessman's committee converting these Wall Street big shots.