Steps one and two at the San Diego Intergroup's Serenity Retreat in San Diego, CA

We we heal mentally and physically. In other words, they call it withdrawal. You put down the fork, Putting down the fork. It's like putting down the drink for an alcoholic. And those guys, the guys who wrote this often had to be hospitalized. I had to be hospitalized. If you're a global compulsible readers, I was, you're going to put down the fork in every goddamn thing you ate over is going to come up.

That's the emotional side of disease you but you may be able to work through that,

you know, with the support group therapeutic approach, going a zillion meetings, taking a zillion commitments, you know, speaking, being a superstar. VIP stars will fall, they used to say,

but you don't get the spiritual connection. And this shit is what creeps up here. They they call it the bedevilments because that's a word used in the book. I call, I used to call it an AI used to call it the generic drunk, a lock because you separate the details. You know, one guy's a tough guy, another guy's a high bottom drunk, another guy's another movie star and other guys. Isn't that underneath it all? Is this

it's untreated addiction?

If I let this shit run in my life again, half gallon Haagen Dazs starts looking real good to me. This is the spiritual malady. This is the third part of the disease.

Half the people in this 12 step program, they're going to doctor

and I'm not saying he's a bad doctor and I'm not saying he's this ego. He's not an MDD. They're saying, you know,

doctors, let's say he's a, you know, board certified psychiatrist. You know, maybe I'm having trouble with my personal relationships. I can't control my emotional nature.

I'm a I'm afraid of misery and depression. I can't make a living. I have this job, I hate it. I'm always at odds with people at work. I have a feeling of useless to them, full of fear. I'm unhappy. I can't seem to be real help to any people. What do you think is going to tell you? What do you think is going to tell you?

She's going to say take this, it'll raise your serotonin levels. You'll feel better in a couple weeks. Meanwhile, we're going to come back and talk about it for a couple years at $150.00 an hour.

I work the steps and I ain't on Prozac and I don't want to eat. And most of the time I'm so happy I could shit, you know, I don't know what to tell you. If you want the step promises in the book, do what I do. If you want the promises of Joe Blow, you know, I, I learned this the hard way. That thing I read about you, you have to be sure you, the guy knows what he's doing. Who you're going to be your sponsor. Because I had a first sponsor almost killed me.

He gave me his opinions, what I learned, and this is not something I read in books.

This is something I experienced up close and personal survival experience. I worked Frank the Atheist program. I give Frank the atheist promises. I work Cal, the dry drugs program. I get Carol the Dry Drunks promises. If I want what's on page 83 and 84, I had to do what's on page one through 82. You do what the hell you want. If those promises don't attract you, don't do it. It's that simple. They attract me.

I've comprehended the word serenity and known peace. Well. I like Mr. Serenity. I like to know Mr. Piece a little bit better. So I'm just through doing 33 Gen. that is, I'm just coming out of the the immense. I'm still in the immense. I got a few left.

I'm still doing this thing. Nine tools, 12 steps, the original program. OK, you had a question.

Yeah. If you are abstinent on a food planet, you can live with with the support of your food sponsor going to your meetings, making your outreach calls. The tools. I am

firm believer in our way tools. They only got 1 tool in a a kind of don't drink and go to meetings. You know, well, they use phone calls to you, but we really spell it out for you.

You know, you got rating, you got your service, you got your literature, you got your outreach calls, right? You got your food.

If you're in that state of grace, man, you're in a state of grace. The question is, how do you keep it for 33 years? You know, without going back to the crazy insanity of running 20 miles a day and eating carob colored granola bars until till I'm on my knees. Yeah,

a question kind of adding on to that. So you hear an OA, there's all these different abstinences. Yes, that's true. That's why our program is tougher.

So what then is

what really? See, to me?

To me, abstinence means I'm not eating compulsively well, that's what sobriety is. That's not what recovery is.

I mean, I'm anticipating your question, but go ahead, I'll let you finish

meal personally, I can have a meal that

the beautiful meal, right? Healthy, abstinent in terms of food choices, so to speak and I can bolt it down because I'm eating it compulsively. All right, that's a good point. That is a good point. Now do I have no answer? Now

I would work. It's, it's a judgment call with your food sponsor. If you if you know, I've heard people say part of my abstinence is I must be sitting when I'm eating because they were grazers. You know, part of my abstinence is I must leave something on the plate, some symbolic act that this meal was completed without compulsion or obsession.

This is why our program is tougher. But I was, maybe I didn't misinterpret your question. I was anticipating. There's a difference between, you know. By the way,

is abstinence a no way.

I hate to bring me the bad news, you guys. I mean, those of you think Roseanne invented this thing, do you think that your sponsor has a sale,

your accidents? Don't you think that should come from God and you I disagree with you. Well, that's fine. That's fine. I, I have a, a, an explanation. I'm not even going to try and debate it. I mean you you're certainly entitled to your

but do you think that your sponsor has the end all say? No, I didn't say that my spot sounded like it. No, I didn't say that at all. I said just the opposite. My first sponsor, Edie did it. They had the food plan was the higher power and she's trying to stuff a square Pagan around hole.

It wasn't right for me. It wasn't appropriate, probably wasn't healthy really.

Program is so tough on the physical level because of food plan is something that have to work out with the help of a food sponsor. They're not an authority. They're not. I don't know where you read that into.

You have to go to your. I said it's well, you have to go. You have, I suggest, OK, you don't have to do anything,

including stay in this room. You don't have to do anything in 12 steps. That's what's the most amazing thing about it. I suggest that you work out a reasonable food plan with your food sponsor and why the food sponsors there for the same reason, the sponsors. It's a sanity check. We got if you listen to the tape tomorrow, which I hope to play the one the first things every says the bills. You got to stop this living alone. You got to join the fellowship,

Young, in his letter to Bill Wilson much later, said. I didn't want to stress it at the time of Roland Hazard, but you got to join a spiritual community to fight the evil in the world. You can't do this on your own.

This program was never meant to be done in isolation. I have a food sponsor as a reality check because otherwise I might try and put ice cream on my food plan and my food sponsors job is to remind me. Boy, didn't you just tell me that ice cream was a binge food for you? That it was an alcoholic food? That you have a physical reaction to it.

Oh my goodness,

this phenomenon, it's all in here, sweetheart. As we have suggested, maybe the manifestation of an allergy which differentiates these people. I know guys that can eat ice cream and maybe I'll have a little bit more, maybe I won't. It's not an issue to them. There's no allergic reaction,

but there's an allergy that differentiates people and sets them apart as a distinct entity. Do you know what the first step in the book says? Not the steps on the wall. Those are a summary. You know, where palace over food in our lives. The first step in the book is on page 30. It says we had to concede to ourselves, to our innermost self, that we were compulsive over eaters.

The delusion that we were like normal people has to be smashed. This is the first step in recovery.

You are different than somebody that can eat ice cream if your sugar reactor. I guess there are people can have sugar on their food plant. Don't mess with my alcoholic food.

It has never been by any treatment but what you're familiar fat farms, diet shots, crazy diets permanently eradicated. The only relief we have to suggest is

entire abstinence. Abstinence is a big book term that owe a adopted OK.

It's in Roseanne history of the book. Last time I gave the big book workshop at the LA birthday party, I made sure I reread the OA history Roseanne book Beyond Her Wildest Dreams, which I don't know if they have it for sale there, but it's good. It's excellent. And that was a term that we thought suited us. Sobriety and abstinence okay do not mean recovery, though I can be stark raving abstinent. That's why I have to program is whacked,

especially in a a you know, they don't want to do this. They don't want it to be a spiritual firm. They want it to be a support group. They want it to be unsupervised group therapy and garbage dumping. And I see my buddy

and they get whacked. Man, have I ever had page 52 in my life and recover, Yes. But thank God. Thank you, God. I've always gotten back in the steps. To me, it's an indicator to do the step process again. That's what it is.

Just like my food's getting sloppy. That's an indicator I need to check in with my food sponsor.

I weigh in once a month because that's what they told us to do back in 1978. They told us only once a month. Jumping on and off the scale, they said to me was compulsive behavior. So I weigh in once a month. This number on the scale is a reality check. And if it starts creeping up, which it had recently, I had a foot surgery, you know, bunion neck, and I couldn't exercise for over a month. So I gained like 3 lbs. I mean, I'm in a maintenance, very

sensitive maintenance range and had been for years. You know, I'm not the young guy that used to run 6 miles a day. I mean, even after the compulsive stuff I was, I would, I actually backed off to maybe 3-4 miles for years. I was over over. I've been a runner for years and I can't do that. I'm not a young guy anymore.

I'm very sensitive to changes in exercise level of food. The weigh in once a month is a reality check. I still e-mail my food into my food sponsor. The food sponsor is another member of the program. They're not a higher power. Okay. The food plans, not the higher power. It's a tool.

The a food plan is no drinking. It's easy, it's clear cut. You don't have to. You know, our food plan is we got to work it out and sometimes it's trial and error you there were foods that I couldn't eat back then. I can eat them now. I'll give you example rice when I'm out in a Chinese restaurant or Indian restaurant, I can add the rice when it comes with a meal. I don't keep rice in my house. I don't make it at home, but at once was a real big food for me. Man. Yes.

List. How can you remove it from your list and still be asking it?

If I have rights on my binge list, how can I remove it from my list or add it back to my list?

Well, I have a fellow for one of some reason I intuitively knew. Like, all right, I'm at a Chinese restaurant.

It came with this much rice. I'm going to see how my reaction is if I start craving more rice. This has got to go. They had sugar free yogurts once. Frozen yogurts. I said, well, sugar free, maybe I tried it. You know what I said to myself? This shit tastes too good. It's like near beer. You know what near beer is? You know what near beer is for? Near beers for near Alcoholics.

Frozen yogurt is not for a guy that used to binge on ice cream. You see, I'll take a food back and mess with. That's what makes our program tougher because we got to do this trial and error thing with the food. But see, once again, the questions are turning to the physical level. I understand because that's our disease. That's why we got to be here. That's why I can't stay absent. And they me, they don't understand

my sick relationship with food and and they could they don't know what I'm talking about reintroducing rice. You're going to

rice on your bottom line. Rice was a food that at one point early on, I just started like all of a sudden I was instead of eating my usual Chinese. I like, I don't like to cook. I I'm a microwave, you know, open the can of progressive vegetable soup type of guy.

So when I'm eating out Asian foods, real convenient meat, vegetables, but you know, so I would eat like I'd say give me chopped pork chop suey, no cornstarch. It was mostly just, you know, quick cooked vegetables and some meat,

but that and I wouldn't eat the rice that came with it. Then I said, well, let me try this pork fried rice. So I had the pork fried rice. You know, it's very salty. You know, man, it was good. Next thing you know I was eating pork fried rice for breakfast.

Chinese breakfast food three times a day. Next thing you know, with all the salt, I gained 8 lbs in a wink. Weak, No, probably wasn't all fat. It's probably a lot of water away from the salt. But I soon I said this shit. Rice, no,

at that point I couldn't deal with it later. I'm calm, I'm abstinent, I'm down to go away. The compulsions removed. I got a little serenity in my life. Chinese restaurant comes with some white rice that comes with us. Alright, I'll try, I'll see what happened. It was okay. It's trial and error. You know, you should know that some people have the red light foods, you know, and then the orange, like there's certain foods that are red light like sugar cane. I haven't had that. The only food that I missed that was a bench fruits pizza,

not a piece of pizza. Over 33 years and it's probably not that bad, but I just thought I'm not going to take it back. Why would I take it back? I got serenity. Why would I mess with something that would mess with my serenity? But let me just say, I never fully got to mention to this gal, abstinence. Sobriety is not the same as recovery. Abstinence means I'm not eating my binge foods. Recovery means

I got those promises in my life. I've contemplated the word serenity. I've known peace,

economic insecurity has left your people, has left me. I can look you in the eye. There's a difference between abstinence and recovery, the same way sobriety in recovery. There's a lot of sober people in a who are so close to killing themselves. If it wasn't for Prozac or Xanax or something, they would they would have either picked up a drink or blown their brains out. Sometimes they do pick up a drink. Sometimes they do blow their brain down.

OK because why?

Because this book is about the G word and they see that G word boy and it just freaks them the F out. Even the S word spirituality, it says to die an alcoholic, that to die a compulsive over eaters death or live life on a spiritual basis is not an easy decision for us to make.

It's not easy for us. You tell a pancreatic cancer patient, well, you can die within a year or two or you don't want to talk to these people. What do you talk about doctor? Well, we got a bunch of nuts here. They they go to these meetings, they talk about God, they make amends and they help each other. They've all survived pancreatic cancer for 20-30 years. But you know what, it's unscientific. You don't want to go to them. So how long do you think before you had your hand around that guy's throat saying give me the God damn number? That group,

you know, if you get diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, you're a dead man walking. I don't The longest I've ever heard anybody survive was 10 years ago in a survived 10 years. Most are dead between one and three years. But if you heard it was a bunch of nuts who survived because they they chosen a spiritual way of life. What do you think you'd do?

Food beat us in no state of reasonableness. None of us get open to the G word because we want to be at least I didn't you know I had to be beaten in a state of reasonableness by food to this is a spiritual program. It's about finding God. Don't call it God. Call it your higher power. Call what you want start with the group That's fine, but I mean there's a difference between abstinence and recovery yes. So can to continue with that. So when you

new sponsee who's never been in program before, then how do you start them out getting them with a food plan Get I like in a a we detox them in OA, we detox them. The guy sugared up to here, he's got his alcoholic foods, he's got his bin foods in his life. I got a friend in a a who's sober longer than me. He's gained weight since I know him in Paris,

you know, not the first time. The second time. I lived in Paris for years. I went back there years later and lived there. He's a great guy from Australia. He will not give up ice cream. He is big thing about OAS. They won't tell me what abstinence is. Well, you got to work it out with your food plant sponsor. Well, I Hal says this and that always says this. You know,

the bottom line is cut to the chase and cut through the bullshit. He just doesn't want to give up ice cream. That's his thing. And he's diabetic and he's want to give up ice cream. He and he won't go. He's been no way. I introduced him. Roseanne Monson Serenity Sunday in LA. He knows all about He's just not ready. My brother's not ready. He's just not ready. You know he's not willing to give it up.

I just want to tell you what I really appreciate is, is you using

word detox because we all think it with a a, we've heard Alcoholics have to go through withdrawal drug out of school through withdrawal. And I've never in all the years I've been in, always heard anyone use that term detox. And that makes more sense than anything in establishing a food plan. You're going to go through through withdrawal. You get a food plan. It's a tool. It's not a higher power. You get your alcoholic foods off your binge foods.

Trigger foods, they used to call them too. Your red light foods, whatever you want to call them. Sugar with me. Ice cream, pizza. I don't need bread. I low carb tortillas, I get them. They're 70 calories. I'll eat a piece of bread in a restaurant. That's a typical food that used to be your absolute bench for. But I don't keep bread in my house. OK, I'll eat it when it comes to the restaurant, but I'm a little wary of it.

You had a question. There's somebody back here. This lady wasn't.

And then you

what about the person who like they come in and they can't do another diet. I mean, that's why they're here, right? And so they like, you know, clearly they're there, they're suffering. They don't can't get asked that. So what do you do? All right, this is scary. There are there used to be a few real detoxes for OA Radar Institute used to have one. I don't know if they are any other business anymore. Sometimes they need, I mean,

any of you hear Harlan's story by any chance? The guy that went up over 700 lbs,

he's a buddy of mine in Arizona. My brother lives in Scottsdale. I go out at least once a year and I see Harlan. We're in communication. She had to be hospitalized. He was dying. He's got a great story, low bottom, you know, life threatening. He took There you go get it.

I mean, he gave the book study the year before me. He's really and this is, you know, he doesn't and a lot of people out there really can't stand him because he's always quoting a book and banging on the book and and he's not an alcoholic either and he's still banging because he went to the gates of insanity and death. He was in a hospital dying of Cellulitis. I I spoke once at the Raider Institute. One of the inmates had his legs look like that. He had elephantiasis, I swear to God. And it was just from

obesity. You know, when you ask a compulsible reader to a friend of mine, Toby K, up in the Bay Area, up in Marin County, the North Bay, San Francisco Bay, she said she started abstinence with three whole chickens. That was the best she could do, you know, But she, it was a start. It was a line in the sand. Obviously I want if you know, obviously if somebody's lost 100 and something pounds, we have 100 LB of meetings you want to talk to.

He's lost 100 some pounds. If you've got to lose over £100, you know, you need that contact. The feeling like this person knows if, if I get a chance to play Bill's tape for you tomorrow, you'll hear it. He's talking about Ebby. He says this guy lived in my strange world and now he has been released and that's why he could listen. He's not going to listen to some preacher talking. God,

this guy ate like I did. You know, he, this guy weighed over £100 more and this guy don't eat anymore. I can listen to him.

I'm 80. I lost 90 lbs and kept it all five years. I'll listen to you.

You know, you had a question.

Yeah, I think you for for

we're bringing up this this thing about the food plan and things like that. And I think that don't you feel it's important that when you're sponsoring, you need to listen to what the persons trigger foods are and not try to tell them. You know, you could tell them your your strength and hope, but you have to listen to what it is that they're saying to you and not say you need to go to this particular place

and eat this particular way. I mean,

all right, I'll say this. I'm like that.

Some people are a little bit more rigid as food sponsors.

I got a, I had a couple of sponses that were drinking wine with their meals. They're not alcoholic. I'd be out of my mind and said no, you can't do that. They're not alcoholic. My brother been up, he's on his way up to 300 again. He can't. I come in one night after a meeting, might even been an OA meeting, I can't remember. It was an A or no meeting

and he's, you know, he's fat and he's already eaten, you know, his pizzas or whatever. He's pizzas is a big thing. And he's got a bottle of Grants cracked Grant Scotch and he's, you know, smacking his lips and he's got the ice. He says. Do you think I should have another one?

That was a question I never had to ask myself.

He's not an alcoholic. He's a compulsive overeater. His food is his drug. I don't tell my spots even get the wine off your food because I'm an alcoholic. It is trial and error. Now I got a response. Who just went to hell to get their food planned again because you hit a plateau in OA And he wasn't losing the weight and it was messing with his head. So he went to hell for the food. But he's still working the steps with me, though. We're doing the big book,

you see, I don't care what kind of foods, but you it's trial and error with your food sponsor. Now if you're going to be rigid and that's all they had when I came in was one-size-fits-all and they were very rigid. It didn't work for me. And no a want the other direction. They went out of the food plant business for a while and then the how was created. It was a schism. They just said no, you're crazy. We can't give up food plants. That's why they broke off from Hawaii at that point.

Now OA kind of went back to the middle of the road. You know, they brought back the dignity and choice painfully.

I believe that we all have different trigger foods. We're all different bench foods. We all have red light foods or oatmeal is kind of a comfort food for me. I like it. But I noticed that, you know, when I'm I'm feeling kind of low or miserable or, you know, a little scared about, I like to have a little more open. This oatmeal is one of those orange like foods. You got to. I got to keep my eye on oatmeal, you know,

but

I just, I've identified my trigger foods and I,

I will work with the sponsee. I'll ask him that. Let me know what he's eating. If you wanted to bring any kind of nutritionist or doctor into the equation, I'm glad to work with them too. My sole desires to be helpful. It's in the book, yes,

that's all right.

Every food in my career.

Okay,

which particular one? Well,

you may be well, I was that kind of a drunk. I mean, I never really I could drink top shelf stuff, but I'll drink dollar 19 pink white gallop port. You know, I was kind of a that's kind of an alcoholic. I am so identify if you're just and I was a quantity eater too. I will overeat, you know. I mean, when I would go buy a steak, I'd, you know, if there was a bone in it, I would buy a pound and a half T-bone steak to adjust for the bone. You know,

I want my, I mean, I need a pound and pound to stay. I need a half a pound of bacon,

four to five eggs, you know, two pieces of toast with butter, half of watermelon for dessert. Because I'm on a diet,

You know, I'm a, I'm a huge eater. I have. But look, you're asking me about you, if all foods are triggering you. I had to get to that point where I'm just in the now I'm just getting through breakfast abstinent. Whatever you consider a line in the sand.

You know, if, if, if, if you, you know, like if you're telling me you're a bread eater and I gotta sponsor, he's calling in his food and he's got bagels for breakfast. And I'm saying, well, you're a bread binger. Why don't you eat like egg substitutes for breakfast? You know, maybe some Melba toaster, whole wheat, one piece of whole wheat toast or something. I mean, I'm trying as a sponsor to identify his, his real trigger foods and get him into a just some sanity. Start where? Start where? You can

start with three old chickens if you have to. I don't think you're going to lose that much weight on three old chickens. But Toby Clay and Toby Kay is a normal size person today, or at least she was last time I saw her. Did you have a question, Emily,

with

whenever I kind of hold up to my district abstinence or just absence in general, I'll start to like all my old feelings are ways of asking my insecurities and stuff starts to really come up. Welcome to detox. Yeah. So what do you do with that? Does it like,

does it like come out and just like you just kind of well, there's a line in the book that if we straighten out spiritually, mentally and physically will follow. That is called withdrawal. What you're in is withdrawal. When you put down the food, you'll find out why you're eating. Every resentment that my father did this to me, old memories, insecurities, what am I going to do in my life? Financial fears. You put down the food and everything you're eating over is coming to the surface. They call that withdrawal. Welcome to the real world.

What you do in 12 step programs is you take it to a meeting and dump it. Make the do the tools. The sooner you can get into this contact with this power to restore you to sanity, the better. Because if you get into a spiritual way of life, all that emotional shit tends to straighten out and meanwhile the physical obsession they overeat will leave you too. I mean, I don't if you're are you hanging in there on an absent food plan now at least

No, you can come see. Well, I mean, I got, like I said, I got nothing new in this game.

I'm a nine tools, 12 step guy and I work the steps right out of the book. Just change

food, you know, get rid of alcohol, put in food. This is the original program. It's about getting a higher power in your life that are more religious members call God or less religious members call an unsuspected inner resource. This altruistic movement, the power that brings compulsive overeaters back from death. That's a quote from the doctor's opinion. Yes,

a healthy plan that you can live with and do business with. Yes, yes, if you're like for me, I'm I, I used to eat 290 lbs. I have anorexic and I'm so if I mean, I can get excessive to the point where I'm counting every single little morsel of food. I mean, I just, you know, don't you need a plan that you can live with

and gives you sanity and removes those damn officers.

You are connected to your higher power. Yes, yes, the answer is yes. And it's more complicated in our program than in the beverage program, which I don't say at a meetings because they never the natives get restless. Our program is tougher on the physical level with its food business. I mean, I got to eat three times a day and it's trial and error in rice. It doesn't work now. Rice can work now and this. Do you have a food sponsor?

Yeah, I yeah, I have. I Have you worked out a food plan with your food sponsor? Yeah,

I mean, I'm abstinence. Are you comfortable with your food plan? Yeah, my, my abstinence, my food plan protects me from that insanity. Like, it's not, it's a protection for me. Well, okay, but you can give it whatever power you want. I believe that it's not about the food except when it's about the food. It's not about the food

being connected to my higher power. Well then but I don't understand. I thought your question was

it's hard because

because in programs there what frustrates me is that some people, you know, we all have our own philosophies, but some people want to tell others how they're supposed to eat or how they're they're not they're they're not. My question is this, so why stay away from him? What do you there's some people, some people they look at the G word in here said I can't read this book. It's got the G word in it. Go ahead. No, I'm just saying you don't have to give him any power.

Exactly. And you can. Nobody can tell you what to do in here. I can only tell you my experience. If you ask me, I'll make a suggestion that that Lady. Yes.

It took me a few minutes to kind of, I think get what you were saying. I didn't. Still, I'm not sure I did it, but it was, yeah.

My experience has been kind of the opposite in this program.

I'm only, I've only been in three months, so I'm very new, but I've struggled with trying to define accidents because nobody wants to define it for me. And that's fine. And I'm starting to get why that's important. I'm really starting to get why that's important, and I'm glad

nobody's defining it for me. But in the beginning, it's very confusing. A lot of people have to go to a lot of people have to go to a structured environment. My sponsor sponsor, by the way, is having a great time and how he still works the steps with me. That food plan has gotten some weight off him. He's reached his lowest point. No way

so far now. I came off of surgery. I'm on my bike maybe a week now. I don't panic when I go up on my food. I've been in maintenance a long time. I weigh in once a month. I don't panic. The obsessions removed. I'm still in contact with my food sponsor. I did call her Zan. I said my weights up. I'm back to actually. We'll see what happens after the next two months. If I have to, I will go to Hal and get a losing food plan to get some weight off me. It's no big deal. The food's not the higher power anymore,

you know, Food plant. Yes.

Something helped me. What's your name over there in the purple?

Help me. And really thank you for the, the LA Speaker files. I've listened to so many of those speakers and it says if you if you have, if you want what we have, you're going through any links? So I would seek out speakers and like a stalker, you know, so I went to a few years ago, I started OAI called Santander Valley victorious next door. Sherry's great. He's a buddy of mine.

I found some San Fran dot Maxine works at the office. Maxine actually sure sponsor and she felt like 40 zillion, you know, really huge abstinence. And I called her and I said in my area I need to find I wanted somebody that lost 100 lbs and kept it off. And so she's Jill actually no girl that I sponsor. And she I happen to listen to her on the speakerphone. She had English accent named Susan. I just listened to her. I called her up

and she said, if you want what I have, this is what you need to do. And at that time I was willing to say and she told me what to eat, but that was OK because I didn't know. You don't know what you don't know. And he tries like, and I wanted, I knew I didn't want what I had. That's it. And and then now even now I'm listening to 90 day phone calls on OA, listen to phone call 90 day. And I have a new sponsor in Oregon

for the same reason, because I'm not happy where I'm at. Yeah, I want something different. And, you know, it's not a marriage, doesn't work, will break up, and it's OK. But you know what? I, I like what she has to offer me. And so I'm taking direction, going, really. This is the food plan, huh? Nothing in between. I don't really like it, don't agree with it. But you know what? I'm not really. I'm not happy with what I have. So I'm willing to,

you know, go to any links, not really, but I'm, I'm praying for willingness to do it. So sometimes it's seeking out somebody and listening to those speaker files. Excellent.

On this 90 day, getting on some phone conferences and then allowing yourself to, you know, listen to your sponsor say, OK, what's working for you because I want what you have. And yeah, by the way, if anybody asks a question that I have not adequately answered, you feel you have a suggestion or possibly a solution that might help them, you chime in. Yes,

hi, Steve.

In my few years before actually

essentially everybody creating their own abstinence to find out what works for them. And I, I was involved with somebody who when they first started, they

had this much willingness and their absence reflected that much willingness. But the person was working with the steps thoroughly and working with the sponsor. And a year later that willingness got this big and the abstinence changed. And over period of time that absence got to the point where that person has lost a shit load of weight and stepped it off for several years. And the key seemed to be his willingness and working the program. That's all. Willingness, honesty, openness, these are indispensable. But

attitude, you cannot fail. Yes,

I just hear a lot of confusion and in my mind, I'm not sure why there's the confusion. Yeah, you mentioned the Brown book and you mentioned the stories in the Brown book and those are stories for compulsive over used to relate to, right. And then the Brown book, there's a definition for abstinence. It's refraining from compulsive overeating and, and it says something about individual binge foods

to me. That's what I was taught was abstinence. And my food plan is something different. My food plan will change as I age. It'll change if I go through health issues that I have to eat certain things or can eat other things. That's what I need to develop with myself, with my God and with my sponsor. And it has changed. And I agree with Steve that as I, I'm starting to,

I'm starting to get into the big book as, as it's described line by line. And I am blown away with what I'm having to look at in terms of where am I being, where am I in denial? Where am I not being honest with what my food looks like? And you know, it just more, more will be revealed and, and

it's true about, you know, at some point when you come in and you don't know anything.

One of the other things that helped me immensely was the idea that the the alcoholic, his bottom line is just doesn't drink no matter what. And the person that told me one thing that really helped me was, so what's your bottom line? And at the time, I was eating all day long. It was about volume and frequency all day long, everything, no matter what. So then it was three meals a day,

nothing in between. And the thought of that

freak me out. I thought, this is impossible. You can't tell me that people can do that. And, and I did what I was told and it worked. And so I guess I, I guess sometimes I just get frustrated for other people because I hear the confusion and I, and I, and I don't know why. And I, well, it's This is why our program is so difficult, because if you got something in the back of the room,

who says, well, I drank today, but I'm glad I'm here. We're going to pat her and we're going to be nice to her. But we're basically going to just say you sit in the corner and be quiet, you know? But no, I'm not saying this about you because we're dealing because this woman has to eat three times a day and I got to eat three times a day.

And you know abstinence is a personal issue. The food plan as you said is a personal issue. And all I'm suggesting is I use the 8 tools. I got a food Spanish food

sponsor. I e-mail or my food every day

if like if I'm hitting this plateau with my age and my exercise level where my maintenance range has gone up, if I have to, I'll go to hell and use their food plants for a while. I don't give a shit. To me, it's just a tool. If I'm released

believe that the obsession, OK, that's if I straighten out spiritually, I'll straighten out mentally and physically.

The talk is coming down to the food. We're in OA, we're not in the beverage program. That's totally OK with me. But what I can tell you guys is you will work it out with your food sponsors and on your own and through trial and error and maybe some setbacks and relapses. And what she said about OK, she's I thought at one point

when I gave got back to Miami and I'm on the dignity of choice youth plan 6 ounce of roast beef would not on my head. I'm going to the deli counter to get my 6 ounces of roast roast beef. That's not enough. My head will oh the head the disease centers in the mind. It says it's not enough. I eat the six ounce of roast beef. I eat the cauliflower, whatever the hell it is the apple if it's always enough. So my head is lying to me

and we got to work this out.

Trial and error. I'll be glad to talk about food if you want. But what I thought I could bring the retreat is what I need for the long haul. Because what you will find, your food plan. You will find your your line in the sand, your bottom line. It may start with three chickens and evolve. It probably will. It may start with three meals a day. It may start by keeping ice cream on your food plan because you think you can't live without it, until one day you get willing to not eat it