The 22nd Annual Mens Fall Retreat in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

Before, before we blast into something else, Anybody else will throw anything in there? Yeah.

And when they had a rule that wasn't working and then another rule to compensate for it. And what Doctor Bob said is let's let's let's keep this thing simple. Let's not take ourselves too seriously. What I have to remember is that when when somebody else is using the tradition

in the group where they're using something to hurt somebody else without being just because, you know, we're Alcoholics, we could make sign that we could make sign an agreement like Mother Teresa. And when I apply that Rule 62, I have to remember that the first person whom it needs to be applied is me in trying to help something, to do something. I just can't take myself too seriously. And that goes on from there. Thank you.

Yeah, Good deal. Right. Thank you very much. Yeah. What's what?

Oh yeah,

the three things, one's recovery, you know, the steps, that's the program of recovery. And so legacy recovery, that's fundamental to the whole thing. Unity is essentially invited into traditions and that's about how we work together, how we work in unison, how we have unity. And then the third is the one we talked about this morning service. So that that's the legacies and and the that's a package deal. You know, if I don't have good recovery, I'm going to do lousy service, you know, so if there's a package deal.

So,

yeah, good question. We assume everybody knows that. They don't judge. Yeah,

other traditions and spiritual principles or what are exactly the other nine? I think black and white somewhere to find them. I can't find them anywhere.

Best I understand traditions were the product of our experience. You know, it as a founders were sort of putting things together and dealing with the mistakes and all of the kind of stuff traditions were formed to to to establish the unity, the cooperative kind of environment that steps a personal unity is how we get along with the world around us. Yeah, I I think a lot of it came

really came into fruition, started to have impact

when when in 55, you know when when Bob was gone. But Bill at the International in Saint Louis

introduced the traditions had been introduced. They were introduced a little earlier, but they weren't really implemented much. And and then in 55, when in in effect, Bill turns a fellowship over to the membership with the design of the general Service conference,

with the, with the notion his his his vision was that the Home group would become the driving force in Alcoholics Anonymous and that traditions would be the framework for sure how this works together. And so that's where that that legacy thing came in. That's where the triangle and this kind of thing really, really got got identified, you know, got really be a landmark for what we were about.

And, and so traditions were vital to that whole idea of, of how we would function as a fellowship. And

if your Bill was, Bill was a little optimistic about that. He was an optimist anyway, but he was a little optimistic about how well we would do. We'll talk about this a little bit earlier in the in the session about how well we would do because that's a marvelous concept. You know that this idea that grassroots will drive the process,

but just like we're talking about the other day, it's, it's, it's the concept simply has not achieved fruition, meaning that that when we, when we meet, you know, rather than having a group conscience, we wind up with a minority opinion because it's predicated. His whole idea was built on the fact that home groups would be like we had a little public aid called Home group heartbeat of a A and the whole idea was that the Home group would be the driving force

Alcoholics Anonymous. It would it would it would dictate what we would do and the conference would be simply trying to pull that all together and and package it. Well, it's a great plan. And but just I mean, it looks like a mission The other day. I know you all wrote this down that what what we see is a travesty compared to what Bill envisioned. That when we meet to it to to gather the group conscience

where the the the the feelings and ideas and beliefs of the the Home group are expressed and carried forth for decision making.

23% representation in the United States. Now, I'm sure Canada is better, but but that's what it is in the United States.

People have been asking your opinion and your ideas and we've been asking

questions and your thoughts on things for three days. It's fair to say them that what you've been sharing with us, this is a representation of your group.

To what the way I'm dealing with is a representation?

No idea.

I probably am not In Sync with an awful lot of people, and I'm not a revolutionary thing yet, but I'm an active member of Alcoholics Anonymous. I am not a spectator, you know, I am a participant. And it's not always true. An awful lot of people quit functioning at a, A

just because you're old, you know, I don't, you know, I'm still wide open. So I don't know and I really don't, I try not to get into to controversial things where there's a real polarization and I try not to get in into the too much of that. And I just simply share what I, what I honestly believe is it's just like what we're talking about now. I have trouble to find out that we do have 23%

representation and expressing the group conscious.

I've shared that. I've shared that at the area level and considerably at the area level. Shared it with our delegate in an open session just just recently. And she's a marvelous girl, marvelous girl, great delegate. And she said, I sure wish that wasn't true, but it surely is because I was inviting some dispute of that. You all for God sakes, I'd love to hear somebody say you're wrong. It's 40.

I'd be the happiest guy in North Carolina, but nobody argues with it. And so we haven't voted on it. But it's just defeat. Do the voting. When you got 23% of people showing up, you don't have to worry about your whether that's the expression. And it's very troubling. You know what? Because what? Rather than dealing with a group conscience, we're dealing with a minority opinion. It's what it is

a minority opinion that's guiding and directing what we do in our college anonymous that's troubling to me,

but right here would go right here

from the time now this this percentage is 23%. Had you on previous years. Was there a specific time that you can say, OK, they're starting to become a change around this time of of that nature? Like before it was 40%, before it was 70%, now 23 or it's always been somewhat around. The 20%

from my experience has never been earth shaken, but but it has been better. It has been better. I got into general service work in 1960, the first time I served as the DCM. We were a smaller, simpler deal. Our area committee for the entire state consisted of 20 people. So we had the excellent representation. Nobody ever missed a meeting because you couldn't hide. I mean, it's pretty obvious if you're not fair. And so it looked better,

but it was a much smaller kind of a deal

in a much more accountable kind of a deal. And over the years we'll get there. And over the years it it, it has just exploded into a whole bunch of different kind of stuff. You know, that back then we were much closer, more intimate kind of deal we pull together. There was a lot more unity and a lot more familiarity, for example.

They will get there in a minute. Don't you forget. I won't. Don't you forget. We'll

give you an example of what that looks like real life.

And I mentioned earlier about you how we've had an explosion of meetings developing all over the country. And that's true. I mean, my God, we got, we got more meetings that you could possibly imagine back in the days when, when, when I was really getting active in service and all this kind of thing. If a if a new group started somewhere it was it was a heartwarming thing to exhibit,

to observe because what would happen is that every group in the in the area would join in. Yeah. And it come in to be supportive of that thing real tight kind of a connection today. We barely know each other you know, we barely know each other. You know, it's like, I won't divert too much on this, but my wife some Saskatchewan. First time I ever understood the

culture of a of a Prairie wheat farmer

was when I watched what happened with my with my father-in-law. They built their home, they failed the timber and they checked insulated with Prairie sod, you know, and all that. And they next door neighbor was 3 miles away. And those two men loved each other dearly. Yeah, one of them was my first step was my father-in-law was just a little small guy. He was a good fellow from Scotland. And his neighbor was a guy named Jake Niber. Huge guy, big old, big old mountain of

and they were intimate friends and I didn't understand why, but it didn't. And I looked at that culture a little bit. These people literally depended on each other. I mean, they depended. If somebody's horse get was sick, the other guy bring his horse,

excuse me, In that country, if you don't get your crops in and you let that snow get them, you're done for that year. And so it bred something in the culture that was tremendously important.

And, and, and so I use that analogy because it's very much like a, a was there because we were people. You know, I, I had the experience of starting Alcoholics Anonymous in a town. I know what it feels like to be the guy standing there holding the flag hoping somebody will show up. And it was more in that mode today. We've got groups everywhere, you know, just almost every corner got a group of the meeting or something.

So it was a big, big difference.

So back then, I don't think it's a fair comparison. But of course you had a larger representation. There's no hiding place, you know? And so either showed up or say word John, you got that. So it was different, but the whole culture was different, I think is the point. But it it was never as bad as 23% to my knowledge. So I think it was, but it was a changing world that we're in.

Thanks for asking about that. Yeah. The question is if you're if you're referenced the 23%. I mean, I'm not sure what number you thought that's 23% of Home group membership

of registered groups of registered groups. Like in my state, it means that 23% of the groups that are registered in North Carolina show up to express the group conscience.

Yeah. And so you see what the trouble is, You got 77%. Ignore it. Yeah. I hate to use a bad reference, but it's like the political world, you know, that we get, good God, we get ridiculous numbers to to to elect national leadership, but we don't need to to smirk at it because ours is just as bad. And so it is, it's a troubling thing to me, is troubling in terms of Bill's vision

that this would be a fellowship driven by the grassroots, but it can't be driven by the grassroots,

stays home, you know, So we have to engage in that kind of a thing, he said. Yeah, yeah. Thanks for asking. Clarified a little. Yeah,

phenomenal. Within 5 organization. For instance,

I've I've experienced here just being only recently returning to the fellowship where, where, where we're calling out to other groups to come in to support us because we're having difficulty even maintaining our, our proper accounting just to keep the doors open. And so we're we're making appeals to other groups who are also struggling with their

membership and fellowship, trying to keep their doors open. And so basically

playing top Skitch hop stock that one another's rooms to try and keep everyone supported in this endeavor. So well, The thing is our our structure should bridge that gap, but only if we participate in it. You guys, the whole design is that the groups come together and the group conscious of the collective wisdom. So that that that's a great concept. But when you only have 23 steps showing up, you know, you don't have a, you've got a minority opinion being expressed.

So it, that's as ideally as what it would be that, you know, it seems like it for tragedy groups, autonomous acceptance matters affecting other groups. And so it's sort of a warning to us not to let one group forge ahead an impact on others and all this kind of stuff. It's cooperation that we need to have. And, and, and we, we have really cut down on those things where we gather, you know, as a larger community, we cut down big city like this. You don't have to go anywhere. You got a big crowd with you, but if you're

of Saskatchewan, you need a neighbor. You're bad because they folks few and far between.

Different world. One second, they would be right here.

I, I think when you look at the percentage you're talking about, I mean, you can look right down the whole structure of a A and you go sit in an, a, a meeting and how many, how big of a percent of people at the end of that meeting pick up a chair or do anything. And when you go to an A, a function, how many feet percentage of the people actually work when it's done or send out for. So you're, you're probably looking at the same thing. And, and I think that's pretty well worldwide

when it comes to anything. I mean, I sat through a lecture of a fellow that that talked about service work throughout the whole community of the whole world. And, and they, and it wasn't just for aid, but for the whole thing. And then the numbers were almost identical to what you're talking about on people that actually volunteer in this world. So you're looking at that's about the best you're going to get.

Well, most people are not suffering from a fatal condition.

Yeah, yeah, we don't do it because we're nice people. You know, we do it because we need to. And it's a, it's AI understand what you're talking about. It's not, it's, it's not exceptional to us, but we need to be exceptional. And, and, and we're dealing with some, I can tell you that. And it gets back to that thing we're talking about on leadership. Of the people I sponsor, 100% are involved.

You know, if I'm inside, well, that's part of it. You know, part of my job is to enlist them in. But people are not going to just automatically just just jump in and do stuff. You know, when you get very interested, set back fat mouthing, you know, So we're good at that.

So I know exactly what you talked about. But I think that's where those of us that that have been here for a little while have a responsibility to help people understand that, you know, for example, when, when, when, when I'm, when I get a new person,

in all honesty, the first thing I give is not a big book. First thing I'm more apt to give them is a coffee pot or a broom or a table. Because what I find is that sense of belonging that's connected with being part of a team is vitally important. And so I don't want it to be brilliant. I want it to be busy. Yeah. I want him to get in there so he feels like he's part of something, you know? So that's what I'll do with him. And we'll get down to cases, get down to program. But first, I

to know that he's in the right place and he's got a place. He's useful as I do that, and that's my way of getting folks done. And I like to do that kind of thing. Yeah,

yeah. Why did Bill Wilson have such a hard time promoting the General Service committee?

He did a good job promoting. I just think we didn't have receptive customers or something. He, he got, he was introducing a whole brand new idea. And I don't know, I wasn't there, but I was waiting in the wings. And but it was this whole thing was new to people. The whole deal in, in 55. I came in at 57 and this whole idea of the structure of a a that was still in the infancy stage.

And and so I think of bills that had a tremendous,

tremendous challenge in trying to get that vision out. Got it out. You know, that he literally was asked to not speak about traditions as as he went around to different places in the country, people would ask him tell you a story, don't tell about those traditions, you know, And so it was a hard sell, you know, for for him to try to get this deal. But most people are thinking provincially about the US, about me and here in my little corner in the basement,

yeah, hard to get people out of that thing. Going to see that that thing of I don't know, but

but that's what it looked like. He had a hard time getting people to listen and think So about something more than themselves is I think what it really came down to. Hardself. Just somebody on. Yeah, No, no,

sorry. Yeah, this fellow right here.

Yeah. I just want to ask that when you talked about the last time that I was here when you're here on the floor and that when you talked about the difference between a vote and a group conscience and just.

You kind of

graced upon out here in the last couple of questions. Did you just take a very, very brief experience without being the difference between a group conscience and a boat place? Not a very, very brief, not not a very, very, very.

I've got I I went over that the other day a bit with the

and I gave the example about the thing of reimbursing speakers, you know, for this kind of thing that and say it's same. It was a group conscience. I gave that example. Yet I don't expect older members to remember all this stuff. Yeah, young members remember it. The I gave the example and it really gets you that whole business about representation, all that, that,

that we were going over the, the pre conference report in my own group in the business meeting

and that I was watching that and thinking about Bill's vision, you know, and, and, and, and so I said to the group that when we finished our report, I said, you know, if, if, if old Bill could see what we're doing tonight, he'd smile because that's exactly what he envisioned was that the group conscious would take a concern or consideration and then really give it the test of, of, of thorough discussion at the Home group level

and, and, and then would move that forward, you know, and so that was his whole idea with this, this, this deal of the general service conference and how the

Home group would be the driving force. But it's hard to be a diving force if you're not there. And so when you got 77% staying home, you got a very weak kind of a deal. And so that, that's the thing that's troubling to me. And with that whole idea that and, and group conscious is, is nothing more than the, it's the what I like to do is, is pull something out for group conscious that really tests

principles that we really need to prayerfully consider, not just a quick vote, but more than that, it's got to be a thorough kind of examining of what is the right thing to do. You're not most popular, but what's the right thing to do. And that that's what the group conscience is about is just getting down to that, to what we honestly believe is the right thing to do. And so to me that's that's an awfully important kind of a distinction that that between just doing business and getting down to what?

Good to see you. Thanks. Yeah, I just wanted to comment that when I first got involved in service,

my sponsor at the level of ECM, GSR and up the ladder, I've never been involved in that. So he suggested I go and ask somebody that was in that kind of service to be my sponsor, which I service sponsor. And one of the greatest things that he gave to me that helped me, I said, well, I said will you be my service sponsor? And he says, yeah, I'll do that. And then after that, I says, well, as a new guy does, right, what do I do now?

Right. And the first thing he said was go away, get the book called Language of the Heart and read the book Language of the Heart. Because a lot of this stuff we're talking about here, like it was the greatest thing you could tell me. Like I found out how all these traditions came together and how they were developed and very valuable resources to put the plan.

You bet. Yeah. Thank you. It really is that language as hard as nothing more than a collection of articles Bill wrote long ago. That's all it is. It's not a new publication. It's the old thing. But it's really. I use it a lot. I use it a lot. Thank you for that. And by the way, yeah. Now I'm somebody who does not do service sponsorship. Yeah. I like a package deal. I like. I like to have the all, all the legacies met. And so if people ask me about being a service officer,

no, Now, I wouldn't want to do that. Yeah. What I want to do is we hate the whole deal. You know, if we get too stratified in one area, you know, I want to be concerned about the entire fellowship and not just, you know, 11 particular area. That's just my own bias about that thing. By the way, right here, can you talk about getting through hard times and recovery? I did. I did

That's that's that's that's because of a hard time in recovery.

That's him. It'll make you shut out stuff. Yeah, yeah, not only thing. The only thing I said that you have two things. I just, I mentioned that I run into a lot, you know, as as a general rule, when somebody I'm not sponsoring, they're just talking to me about a problem. My response is not automatic, but but it's almost always fits. You're working on the wrong patient.

You're working on the wrong patient. And somebody's somebody's talking to me about a problem they got with somebody.

It's not to somebody's themselves. And and so, you know that that thing of being in tune, practicing the principal and all that kind of stuff. And the other illustration I gave was about getting through that crisis time of just survival, you know, of making sure that I don't drink. And that that what it boiled down to me was two things. One was to when I get it, and I've had it not for a long time, but I've had it, where I absolutely was overwhelmed with the obsession to drink. And what I did was two things that I don't know, but nobody taught me. I

by necessity, if one is to pray and the other is to hang on and, and I've gotten through everyone of them, you know, so, but I think that's what it comes down to. There's there's there's no neat trick for doing. It's just a matter. Sometimes you just got to grit your teeth and pull them through and

the antidote to it may just stay in really, really engaged in the program. So it's a way of life and not just something I attend, you know, with them. That that's for me is what what works a great deal. Yes. Somebody. Somebody with you. Yeah,

Just to back back up to six, understanding of that perfect peripheral consideration, because I know how it works in our business means we call a vote and that's pretty simple. Hands up yes, hands up no. When you're bringing a group conscience in the way you've described as prayerful consideration, would you bring up an issue that needs to be decided on and have everyone go home for for a week or so? We've had an experience in prayerful consideration and then bring it back.

Is that the process? Yeah, we'll often do that

in that meeting where you may all pray together and then come up with a conscience. What's the process? Yeah, we'll often say give this some thought and then we'll do a group conscience. We, we, we, we don't confuse group conscious and business people. They're two totally different worlds

where you bring it up and let's have a group conscience and not too much, not too much, a couple weeks at most. Yeah, but you basically just want each individual to have an opportunity to think it through. So we're not just doing a pop quiz, you know, in some sort of spontaneous thing. So it wouldn't happen all in that same meeting. There would be a gap of time where where people would take it home and the opportunity to examine tradition like the one I use a reimbursed and speakers for the expense.

And that got into traditions about self support and that kind of thing. And, and, and the, the solution that the ad hoc committee came up with and recommended, I didn't agree with it. I didn't vote against it. It would not have been my suggestion, but it was a pretty darn good suggestion. And, and so I think that's what happened with prayerful consideration, people will come up with things, but but given thought to it and not just some spontaneous reaction to it. And to that to that to me is what

critically important about it and a differentiating that we really do trivialize the term group conscious a lot. But calling that a business, a business being a group conscious. And that's not that's just survival stuff. That's stuff you do to operationally to to to have to group run, you take care of coffee, stuff like that. But when you get into a real issue, that principles matter a great deal. You know, that's awfully important to me to have a differentiation between

that a lot more members will say, well, we need to have a group conscious on this. And I don't think a lot of them know what they're talking about when, when they say that because it's usually there's a, there's a 5 minute discussion and then there's a vote. And pretty much everybody in that room thinks that we've just had a group conscious. And I wanted to would be one of those up until this weekend.

Yeah, we offer trivialize it. We sure do. Yeah, yeah.

Good point, Good point.

So we need to study it. We need to look at it. Otherwise what it really becomes is a can report. Yeah. And that's what that time thing could do, is give people time to get informed. That's a good point. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Jeff, sorry, but we've been missing that thing yet. A couple of things that come to mind. One of the I'm a GSR for District 42 and when I if it was new to me when I started, but one of the things my sponsor did very early, he says, you know, if you want to say so where you do what sober people do,

which is pick up ostrich chairs and you know, you said that coffee, you know, that little thing. And so I learned that and anyway, when I got became a GSR, it was all new. We learned quite a bit of things that we were having a separation of another district and somebody and,

but at the end of the day, one of the things that came up is that there was the amount of GSR's in our district was a small number, you know, compared to the number of groups. But then we found out by doing some research is that there was a lot of meetings that they weren't groups and and some meetings didn't know that they weren't a group, right? They just moved. They just naive, they didn't know any different and they felt that when they registered,

you know, in ours, in our Vancouver area,

that they become a group. But that's not the case. You have to register with New York. That's a group. And so we did. We were able to get our GCM to go to some of these meetings and tell them the difference between a group and a meeting. And just on this Saturday,

we set up a workshop that was a service in a a show us by the GSR is a DCM. And you know, we tried to come with it sort of like a little popular lunch. And the one problem with that we've got the most loosely defined expression of what a group is

that it could not be more general. You know, two or more people gathered for personal recovery may solve themselves A group provided to have no other affiliation. And there really is no criteria, you know, that if if if people call it a group, that's what it is. And, and, you know, and the,

I'm a strong group guy, but in terms of trying to define it, you know, that that it's an arbitrary kind of thing. I do a lot of workshops on home groups and this kind of thing. And, and I always use that thing of trying to differentiate the two. But it's time I differentiation, you know? Best definition I ever heard of. A group

is 2 or more people, one of whom needn't be present

as an anybody Got a definition. But it really is what it is. It's a sense of belonging. Yeah, it's a belonging, you know, like my wife and our group, she's not here, but. But she's still my wife, you know, that. And that same thing with the group. But you got a meeting, you got a casual collection and in a group where you got some committed relationship. So. But there is no definition for it, you know. And when we make up one, it's ours

because it's not supported in the in the literature, not supported in traditions yet. But yeah, but you know that I feel strongly about it that.

But as far as a clear delineation period, there is none. We just ought to make it up because yeah, just one second. We got Joe right here. Just one minute.

You ever met Bill WI did. And how did you relate to your meeting with?

Well, I already loved him, but when I met him, the primary reason I went to my first International 65 was to meet Bill. I didn't want to tell him anything. I just want to make sure he was there, you know,

and that really was it. I just wanted to be there. And so as he was there, he'd like to energize her. Bunny was all over the place. There were where you see him a lot, but I know you won't believe this. We had a traditions meeting and we had a skinny craft and I was one of the crowd, so I had a chance to meet you. Now we didn't become fishing buddies

at all, you know, but my mission was accomplished. I met Bill, had a chance to say hi there. We chatted for two minutes and then it was gone. My mission was accomplished. And I I had believed that might be my last opportunity to turn out. It was because the next one in Miami he had he, he died immediately after and I couldn't get to Miami. And so I was right, you know, I followed the instincts that that

that it helped me a lot over the years. So yeah, I did meet Bill. And but that man was truly a visionary.

He really wants it to me. I mean, he just absolutely was able to describe this, this, this movement, this energy of secret to none. I'd I'd loved him dearly. Yeah, there are a lot of lot of people. I swear to God, it it must be bored or something. But you got a lot of muck Breakers that are trying to dig up stuff and and to verify scandals and stuff that

for what? For God's sake,

what? I mean, he was a human being and I was I was in a state just South of here recently and a guy there that I love dearly and

he wanted to get together. He's quite I'll, you know, quite I'll, he wanted me to stop by see him. So I went by, went in, here's a guy that's that's at the end of his if he's rope pretty close. And I went in and, and he was telling me about what he's doing and he started telling me some stuff that didn't make a lot of sense. And he had a big old book there and I was and he's, he said, take a look at that book.

Have you ever seen that big old thing look like one coffee table Books picked it up and I said, what is it, Johnny? So he started telling me some goofy off the wall stuff about some notion of Bill doing this or that. And now I'm looking at a guy that's terminal.

I'm a kind hearted person,

but I thought about that. He was complaining and bitching because nobody would come to see you. He had to get a guy from North Carolina to come see you. And so I'm listening to that and I'm thinking, do I just act like I don't hear anything and just walk off into the sunset? I said no, let's don't do that. So I told him. I said, I said, I said, my friend, let me suggest something to you. You're not reading a book, you're doing an investigation

for what I mean. Come on man. Good God, you don't need that thing at this point.

Now what you're doing is driving people away. Who wants to come in here and romance something like that? And so you no wonder nobody's coming to see you. They're not going to, you know, you know, it's so it's it's just sad, you know, people get off into that kind of junk. You know, instead of trying to find out, you know what the what was the values of a guy that introduced a fellowship to the world and you're going to throw some little piece of something a good God.

Give me a break. And so anyway, it's it's just just unfortunate we see that kind of stuff going on. He was a human being. Yeah. You got in the corner been. Yeah, I just.

But what kept me here all weekend as I'm waiting for the homework. Excitement

go team.

Thank you for that by golly I really appreciate that you got Let me lay this out. Did we come back because of Yeah, I know that the president's going to call time to do the quick one And

but group conscience is sort of looking for the spiritual solution, is looking for what the principles are. It's going group inventory is evaluating how you're doing what you said you were going to do, you know, so that just says your evaluator plan. Our group inventory is simple. We we laid out those 20 things we did in that starting that that's how we evaluate how we're doing on that. So it's basically like a merchant would you know, if he wants to know what his inventory is, he counts as Kansas. If he wants to know what his customers are

values, he evaluates his principle. So a big difference. That's really what it comes to me

the, the assignment. Let me tell you the assignment and obviously it's, it's, I'm not going to check on you, see if you're doing it. I can tell next time I'm here for you smiling when if you're somebody that wants more than you've got, if you're somebody that wants to see a field that you're carrying out your primary purpose. If you're somebody that would like to see Alcoholics have a better chance at recovery,

then the homework assignment might, might, might be worthwhile.

I mentioned now don't walk out. You don't get that.

What what, what it is is this, you know, Yeah, I was telling that little deal the other day about the detox and the lady over the behavioral unit and the fact that nobody knew what happened to the Alcoholics who hit the wall. We have Alcoholics hitting the wall every day, everywhere within walking distance where we are. And I guarantee you Alcoholics will hit the wall today.

It just it's universal thing. What what, what I would suggest if you really want to do something about that and then you don't have you don't have a plan of action, go back to your neighborhood. You know, Vancouver, I don't talk about all of them like Vancouver. Go to a place where you live, where you're part of a community where you really have concern about the health and welfare of folk in that community and

identify a place where Alcoholics hit the wall.

And that could be anything, you know that give it. You have a big, we hit the wall in a lot of different ways. Broken marriages with welfare stuff, social services with ministers. You know, that's amazing. You know how many places Alcoholics hit the wall and where they go. And you know that a hospital, a detox, a triage nurse, places where Alcoholics go when they are absolutely up against it.

And when you identify that, evaluate it and see what you think ought to happen.

If there's nothing happening, if they're hitting the wall and lost and don't know what to do, think about what ought to happen.

Take the example that I used about when I was talking. That Gala was over the behavioral stuff and and neither she nor I knew what happened to Alcoholics who couldn't get admitted.

So what we laid out was a plan where we would provide, simply provide phone numbers. And if you have to send somebody out in the cold, tell them they can get some help by calling one of these numbers. Simple plan, eh? Simple plan. Simple to us, not to somebody running a hospital. They don't have a clue how to do it. And you try to call it in the phone book. Try it when you get home. Take a look at the phone book. See what's listed under the A column.

My God, man, you can phone call to the moon looking at some of that stuff. That's so just a clear little thing like that.

The to identify the problem, think about what needs to be done

and then try to implement it. Try to implement it. The last three test 12 step 'cause I had I only had three last year. I used to have three a day and only had three last year. All three of them came from ministers. All three, because that's where alcohol is, go when they don't have any money.

Hey, girl, got here.

That's where to come from. And it's as simple as that. Yeah. I mean, you don't have to start a movement or any kind of thing like that or organized committees. Just just take it on, you know, and, and go somewhere where to hit the wall and we've got that going everywhere. And then lay out something that that here's what you can do with that. Most people don't know, you know, it's been a long time. Go to employers who are having to fire folks, don't know what to do with them. Your treatment is becoming less. I don't know about Canada, but it is certainly becoming less available

in my country. And and so you know that that would be the only thing I would suggest because just feeling good and that we've talked about some stuff that has some worth and value has to me, I hope it has to you. But but what does it mean unless you take some action on it? And so how to make it come alive, You know, that's that's that's what I'm talking about is to do this thing and that that would be the homework. And next time I hear you, you can give me a report on

on what happened. Yeah. Yeah, Tom,

inspiration here in your 53 years,

you've heard what you need on. I would love to hear what's in these 53 years at that point where you were thrown back in your chair and off and we're as a result of a situation of something you've seen that just you knew God was working in these rules.

Something where you went down or up

which

something that really was exhilarating

knew God was working in groups. It was, it was just a beautiful

been a tongue. There'd been a ton, not so much moving wide. I don't have that kind of oversight. But but, but I'll just give you an example of just some things that many years ago I was working with a bunch of guys in prison and I was really, really exasperated at the seeming futility of the world because it looked like nobody was catching on. Nobody was really becoming a member. And I, I took ten guys,

ten guys and said, let's build a group. And to 10 guys,

we went to work and built a group and we wound up calling it the Triangle Group recovery service and Unity. It happened to be located at a place called the Triangle and there, but it was the Triangle that put it together. Recovery service unit. I watched that group develop three different groups within the group 1A recovery group, A newcomer deal 1A Unity group, which was a, a speaker meeting or somebody came in, we had Unity with people outside. The other was service.