The importance of Sponsorship at the "Kitchen Table AA with gumbo" workshop in Now Orleans, LA

Now, as I told you, I got sober in 1979. We could read the Big Book unsupervised in those days

and also we got sober on reading the whole book.

We didn't get this 164 pages stuff and I got sober in 1979. The 3rd edition of The Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous came out in 1978, and I didn't have anybody ever tell me that their second edition was better

than my third edition. I didn't have anybody say to me, oh, I don't know where the stories are. I don't. You know, the people that taught me about Alcoholics Anonymous had read the new book, were familiar with all of it so that they could meet me where I was. They were ready to be of service to me. They weren't standing there waiting for me to figure out how I could be like them and get something that they had that I couldn't get.

So

for those of you who don't know,

this is the 4th edition of the book Alcoholics Anonymous. If you haven't read it, do it. And when you work with somebody, work out of this book. Whoa. All my notes are in my third edition. Transfer it. I mean, come into this. This book is 8 years old, nine years old. Why don't you try coming into the 21st century? This is a very good opinion. It should be yours.

To wit,

whenever I have the the privilege of getting somebody buying somebody a copy of the book Alcoholics Anonymous, I always go to page 180.

Oh my God.

And because in this is, it's in Doctor Bob's Nightmare. And whenever I have the privilege of talking to somebody, I say read Doctor Bob's Nightmare. Pay really close attention the last few pages because you'll know why it is that we're all excited to see you. And in fact, when I when I work with Alcoholics now, we read Doctor Bob's Nightmare before

we go into the prefaces.

My wife when she heard I was doing this, ran out with the first guy that I was doing it were sitting in the in the living room. She runs out and she says you're killing people

anyway. So

in Doctor Bob's Nightmare, he says after this litany of just awful, awful drinking and all this stuff, he said

that was June 10th, 1935, and that was my last drink.

As I write, nearly four years have passed

down. At the end of the he talks about, you know, what it was that Bill carried to me. He says it is a most wonderful blessing to be relieved of the terrible curse with which I was afflicted. My health is good and I have regained myself respect and the respect of my colleagues. My home life is ideal in my business is as good as can be expected In these uncertain times.

I spend a great deal of time passing on what I've learned to others who want and need it badly.

I do it for four reasons #1A sense of duty #2

it is a pleasure #3 because in doing so I am paying the debt, my debt, to the man who took time to pass it on to me, and for because every time I do it, I take out a little more insurance for myself against a possible slip. Unlike most of our crowd, I did not get over my craving for liquor much during the first

2 1/2 years of abstinence. It was almost always

with me,

but at no time have I been anywhere near yielding.

Later on, he goes on to say that if you think you're an atheist, an agnostic, a skeptic, or have any other form of intellectual pride which keeps you from accepting what is in this book, I feel sorry for you.

But if if you still think you were strong enough to beat the game alone, that is entirely your affair. But if you really and truly want to quit drinking liquor for good and all, and sincerely feel that you must have some help, we know that we have an answer for you. It never fails

if

you go about it with 1/2 the zeal you have been in the habit of showing when you were getting another drink. Your Heavenly Father will never let you down.

And that is my experience is that I'm an active A A guy. These are active A a guys

drinking and using

took up between 16 and 21 hours a day

depending on what kind of help I had to help me along, right?

I mean, I was always going after it. And what is it that I have to pay for that?

What is it that this terrible curse with which I was afflicted,

my stepmother died from cirrhosis of the liver, My brother-in-law died from cirrhosis of the liver. I've got a sister with 22 years of sobriety. I've got another sister who doesn't have a problem with drugs and alcohol, but she dates poorly and marries worse. And if you saw her, you would say this poor homeless woman when you see her and her husband. But this is the life that they've chosen.

They they, they have no desire in, in, in doing stuff that folks do. And

and if you go out through my cousins, every single one of my cousins has been institutionalized

or has way too many children by people that have interesting tattoos all over their body and and have done time and, and so alcoholism has devastated my family. And yet I walk a Freeman today and what does it take me? What does it take me? It takes getting up in the morning to ask for a little help. I spend maybe 20 minutes in the morning

doing one form of meditative practice or another. And then I do a little more writing and stuff. And so it takes me say 1/2 hour

in the morning. During the course of the day, I take phone calls. Who knows how many calls I take. It's not that many. It's not that many. And then in the evening, I tend to go to a meeting or I have a meditation group at my house where I have some other commitment that I'm, I'm out doing stuff with you guys, right?

And I have been lifted from this incredible curse.

And so that's why I do it. And why I do it is that it only happens by working with others. The only way that I live free and clear is by giving it away in order to get it. And you know, again, this idea that somehow I've got to know what I'm doing,

I mean, it's ridiculous. Thank you.

You know this either,

you know, somewhere in that book it says either God is everything or God is nothing.

So either I'm going to let the higher power run the deal or I'm going to try and run it. Now

Bill has seen me run the deal and, and when he came in, I was, you know, I mean, I was as active and did as effective work as I've ever done in Alcoholics Anonymous when I was running the show, when I was sober, man, armed with steps, concepts and traditions. And I had them lined up, you know, they were coming into my house and doing all that stuff and had them out, you know, going after it.

But ultimately I couldn't carry that weight and I had to lie the power of power to actually run the show. There was nothing I hated more when I was first sponsoring Bill. Then some dried up old geek that said

if they're going to do it, they're going to do it.

They're going to get it. They're going to get it. I can't make them. I'd say you're killing Alcoholics. Give them to me. I'll show them out with this program

work. The steps will die.

Yeah, I know.

I was just wondering if there was any message I needed to hear.

I think it was the work, the steps or die that God was responding to.

But but anyway, So what what? What ended up happening is that that when I let the higher power run the show,

it all got easier.

It all got easier. And nowadays what I say is, oh, if they're going to get it, they're going to get it,

you know, And then I let guys that are, you know, and that's The thing is where a spiritual continuum. So the people that have got to hear the message in a clear, undiluted, direct manner. Now I give them to John Gunner. That's fine. You know, it's, it's, it's a real, you know, So I mean, because we're all in, in, in, in different stages at different times. And the only thing that's necessary is that I'd be helpful.

Now, one of the other lies that you hear along the I don't have the time is well,

well, if I do everything that AA says, then you know what? If somebody calls me and says, will you come on the marathon on Christmas and I've got a family. I can't go to a A because of that. No, that's you have a commitment to your family. You can say no, excuse me, I have a commitment.

Spiritual truths will never violate. They never cross. You know, if it's if you're if you're doing and and it's like you want to be a really good parent sponsor people. What? Well, when you, when I sponsor people, what happened is, is I learned that I can know exactly how another human being should go about functioning in their life.

I know the steps they should take, how they should go about it, and if they'll just follow my direction,

their life will be wonderful.

And they don't do it,

and their life ends up being wonderful, right? And So what happens is I get all that ego knocked out of me so that when my daughter becomes a teenager,

I can be willing to give her advice and then not throw her away because she doesn't take it.

Because I've already seen that the big guys got a plan. You know, that however her life's going to unfold, it's how her life's going to unfold. And I can sit there and say, you know, you ought to do this, but it's exactly the same thing as me trying to do that with a sponsee. So what happens is, is the sponsees were able to soften me enough so I could be a good father.

Now I know you can't believe this, but also with my wife I sometimes know exactly how she should be.

This also is why God created an Al Anon.

We have a group conscience in my house, my wife and my cat and myself. That life really works a lot better when I go to my weekly Al Anon meeting.

Speaking of an outside issue. But this really is an inside issue. And the whole thing about being able to learn

about the Al Anon thing, I want to, I want to mention that Bill's dad Gordon taught us a really good thing, which is that when you reach the point, notice that I say when you reach the point

that you're willing to go and learn from women and men who have real experience in dealing with insane people on a regular basis.

I keep your mouth shut.

Don't take up their airtime. Listen to what it is that they have to say. Learn from them.

And when I, when I went to Al Anon, it was a situation in my home with my, with my wife's health, where I was like managing and controlling her and doing the best I could. And, you know, just if she'd only follow my direction. And at one point, after all I had done for her, she looked at me and said, you know, this is where I pack.

And so I just shut my mouth and I went to an al Anon meeting. And what happened is, is that by listening to the experience of the women and men there,

I gradually, you know, I was so busy trying to control my wife's life

that their consciousness raised me up so that I could get off her enough that the higher power could enter in and save her life.

So,

you know, this thing about me knowing what it is that's supposed to be going on is really

delicate. So what I need to do is I need to keep being of service and Alcoholics Anonymous because you're the ones that teach me, keep me teachable.

You're the ones that gets presented with me to teach me the lesson. See, it used to be, you know, on one of the great things about sponsorship is you get to go through the soberman phase where you know everything

and you're speaking down to people. But then gradually what happens is, is that you just become a member of the group. You know, I'm just another drunk now. I know a lot better than most of the people in my meeting, but that's another thing entirely. But you know, but The thing is, is that how do, how much do I insist that sponsorship is what keeps me better? If if you have a lot of employees

sponsor people you know, you start to learn about what it is you can and cannot do.

And that's another one where the Al Anon literature is very helpful. The courage to change book before you go in until anyway, it just makes things a lot easier.

And so this thing of always being in the book is a great blessing. It was a guy who just recently passed away, Paul Martin. And if you haven't listened to to Paul's talks, you know you can get them for fun and for free. You can download them off XA speakers.org

and Paul, it was really fun. I called him a couple years ago because I wanted to know about it, a relationship that he had with with his sponsor. And so I after getting through to him and the guy at the time when he died, he had, he was what he had 62 years years of sobriety and he was like

89 years old or something. I mean, he was just, I called the guy spent 1/2 an hour on the phone with me. But before we started to talk, he said, OK, how long are you sober? I said, well, you know, I'm sober 28 years. Good. Do you have a sponsor?

Yes. When's the last time you talked to your sponsor? Well, I talked to him every week. I got 1/2 hour slot that I talked to him. OK, good, he said. When's the last inventory you did?

I said about 6-7 months ago, he said. Are you in the book with other Alcoholics?

Yeah, he said. OK, now we can talk. I know who I'm talking to

because he was used to talking to a lot of people that untreated alcoholism. And when we got done with the conversation, he said, kid, I want to tell you something, He said, if you're not in the book with other Alcoholics, if you're not going to meetings, if you're not talking to somebody

on a regular basis and sharing costly things. In other words, the things that you wish weren't true about yourself,

He said. If you're not doing that stuff,

you will go insane,

and he said. I have watched it happen with hundreds and hundreds of people with long term sobriety that I love.

So in other words, what I do is I just keep with it, you know, and, and with my sponsor, I call him every Tuesday night at 9:30. Now, why do I do that?

I do it because I asked this man to sponsor me because he's the man that I admire most in Alcoholics Anonymous.

He's he's 58 years old and he's got 35 years of sobriety. I want what he has

and, and he's an active AA member and I and I call him and I want to spend time with him and I want to get to learn how he lives his life. And of course, it's amazing the parallels that we that we share. And so you know, I'm putting myself in that in that position because I want what he has now. I sponsor a lot of guys anybody wants. They got to, they got 1/2 hour slot with me,

but you'd be amazed how few actually have that.

The other reason that I sponsor is that it keeps me aware of the miracle of my own recovery

and the miracle of my day, the miracle of the marriage I have, the miracle of the relationship I have with my daughter, with my grandmother and with my wife.

One other thing is that another reason why I sponsor is that I sponsor so I can be available. Now Bill, when he got he started on Interferon,

I knew

that for me to you know, my first reaction was, well, make sure you call me every day because you're going to be going through a difficult time.

And then I realized it was insane. He didn't call me all the time anyway, but but but the thing was, is that if I wanted to be helpful to my sponsee,

to my friend, I needed to call him.

So this is not a one way thing.

And if I can give you the one thing that I, I, I, I want you to, to remember. If you can't remember anything else is you know if they're sick enough to ask you for help, you can't hurt them.

But the second thing is that God never puts two people together

to only help one.

God never puts two people together to only have one. Thank you.

Matthew Alcoholic,

there's a

something we say in AAA is pick up the phone, use the phone. And I think the implication is don't be a secret, don't isolate, call and tell somebody what's going on with you. But I got us lesson in that. And underneath the chapter heading of today's section, this section of why do we do it? I think one of the reasons we don't pick up the phone is maybe we think we're different.

Maybe we think somebody won't understand

our particular situation. Or I was talking to a guy earlier today who said I didn't think anybody drank like me. And then I forgot there was a guy who I drank with who was in a A and that blew that. So we don't pick up the phone and we the implication again is we're isolating. We should call someone and tell them our problems.

Well, I've heard a lot of stories in a a When people get here, I know my story. I thought I had problems that were insurmountable. I had a brand new baby. I had all sorts of debt. My mother was sick with cancer. I couldn't get a job. It seemed to me like my problems were insurmountable. But then I heard this story about this other guy and the way he used the phone, and it totally humbled me to change the way I looked at this whole thing.

Now, this guy had been really, really wealthy. He had a lot of money and

economy went bad and he lost the money and he didn't have much. And he did through his drinking, he lost the money and he had tried to get sober and he drank again. He tried to get sober and he drank again. And he was reduced to to living off his wife's minimum wage job. And he was humiliated and he got sober. He stopped drinking for a few months

and he had had a long, hard fall and he was a bad alcoholic. And all he had was a few months of sobriety and he found a position that he could get into where maybe he could make some money and get back on top.

And he had to go out of town. He went in a business trip and he was humiliated in the process because it didn't go his way. And this was his big promise. This was how he was going to fix it all for his family and get back on top. And he was desperate and he was alone and he just had a couple of months of sobriety and he decided to use the phone. But he was in a bad situation. He didn't have a bunch of people to call in a a he was in a lonely city. And he picked up the phone and he had a list of people, and he called 10 different people

to find somebody to help.

He didn't even look for someone to tell his problems to. Now back home, he had a priest who had helped him,

he had a Doctor Who had helped him, and he had his wife. But he called 10 strangers

basically out of the phone book. They were actually on a church directory

and he got the number of somebody who knew somebody who had alcoholism that he could help, and that was Bill Wilson.

And he didn't pick up the phone to dump.

That's not why we're supposed to pick up the phone. We're supposed to pick up the phone to get out of ourselves and help. And I was in a A and read that book. And that didn't occur to me for seven or eight years. And when I finally, I was actually out of play, Bill drags us off to this play from time to time. And they showed Bill the scene where Bill's calling the people. And you start to realize this guy called people. There's no way a a right nobody

when you call. OK, hey, I'm looking for an alcohol. I need to talk to you. They think you're crazy, right? And he did that 10 times, got hung up on, got some direction. People thought, what are you talking about?

Imagine that, imagine that. And we have all of this, we have all of these meetings. And it was so humbling for me because sometimes I can't pick up the phone to talk to the guy that left me a message to say, can you call me back? And I do, I pick, I do do that, but it's I don't want to sometimes. And I think that's another point I'd like to talk about. But the whole thrust of what we believe is that it is in helping other people that you get the spiritual life.

It's not in the 11th 11 steps, it's in the 12th step. And when I read that and saw that play and what they did, did the technique in this play is he would call somebody and say you have an alcoholic to help. And then the light would go off.

And then the light would come back on him again and he was dialing another number and then the light would go off. And then he did that 10 times. And then he had to wait a whole night and not drink in a strange town with a failed business proposition and go find someone to help. He did not go to Doctor Bob's house and go, I got problems, man. Let me tell you about my problems. He said I used to be able not to stop drinking and I haven't had a drink in a few months. Can I talk to you?

And he changed the course of the world.

I mean, it's not an exaggeration. And I'm Irish, I'm prone to exaggeration.

So the other thing that from my own personal experience, I always feel more comfortable speaking from my personal experiences. You know, I have been given a wonderful life. I've been given a wonderful life. I was destitute and morally bankrupt and spiritually bankrupt and financially underwater. And I've been given this wonderful life. And we read the big book a lot. And my, when I do my sponsorship and, you know, at least the guy gets to the part in the big book where it talks about Jim, remember the car dealer,

Jim? And Jim, what does he do right? He has an argument with his boss and he goes out to the country. I love that he leaves the city to go to the country to sell a car. I understand, Jim, I'm going to go where there are fewer people and then I'll find someone to buy this car. But when I read that part, there's a line in there that makes a chill run at my spine. It says all went well for a while for Jim, but he failed to enlarge his spiritual life.

So when I read that I, I get a little bit nervous because

you could write math, you could just take Jim out, put Matthew in there. All has gone well for a while for Matthew. I I met and married the woman of my dreams and Alcoholics Anonymous. She's not an AI. I met at a bus stop, fell madly in love. We've been married for years. I've never lied to my wife. I kissed the ground in the morning that she's married to me. We have a happy, fulfilling relationship. I don't know where this came from. I have two little children, three children, but littler children

that feel safe with me. I have this life that's all has gone well for a while for me. It hasn't all been great.

Bad things have happened. Good things have happened. But when I read that, I think, wow. And as you stay sober longer, as I stay sober longer, I'm kind of like, well, how do I enlarge my spiritual life? When you're new, your spiritual life is so small, it's pretty easy to enlarge. Not much to do. I'll go to the meeting. Hey, I actually grew by a nano piece exponentially. Yeah, it's twice as large, but it's still this small. But I've been sober a long time. I've been on long meditation retreats. I've LED retreats. I

with these guys, I pray, I do the work with other Alcoholics, But that's the crux of it is how do you large your spiritual life? And I find for me, it's when I push myself outside my comfort zone.

It's when I make myself take one step past what I'm comfortable doing. And I want to give an example of this is there was a guy I was sponsoring and he ended up in the hospital. He was going to die. He drank again. He held up in a hotel room and his liver just went to hell. He turned completely yellow. His eyes were bright red. He looked like the devil. He held all his blood vessels broke in his eyes and he was admitted to hospital. He didn't have anybody left in his family because they all had drank themselves to death.

And I sponsored him for a very short time and he was in a hospital not far from my house

and he was never gonna come out. He was an ICU. They found him when they found him, every waste basket in his house was full of the blood he'd thrown up into it. So it was over for this guy. So I, he didn't know he was an alcoholic coma and he didn't know. But I had told him the last time I went to see him in a coma that I would come back the next day. I just said to his body and I went off to work and I had a bad day. I work with doctors. I'm a I'm a drug dealer. I sell drugs

and I, it was a rainy day and we don't have a lot of those in Southern California, so nobody remembers how to drive. And they, oh, it's raining. I must tailgate you. And it's kind of like that. And everybody was kind of off that day. I had a really frustrating time with these people. I was far away from my house. I was in the farthest reaches of my territory. I was discontented. I knew I was upset because on the radio came Derek in the Dominoes Leila,

a classic, great song. And I listened to the song from it and say, man, this song sucks.

And I set it off and I went, wow, somethings wrong, you hate this song now. And I'm driving home on the freeway and I remembered I was going to go see Mike. I thought, oh crap,

I don't want to go see my piano. That's the last thing. I want to go see my wife. I want to hold my wife. I want to play with my kids. I want to forget about this day,

but the men and Alcoholics Anonymous, these men particularly, but other men that I know showed me a, a they didn't tell me a they drugged me to hospitals. I remember going on a panel once and I I'd like a year sober and not a pot to piss in. And I'm on a panel and a guy walks in and he and I knew the guy and he was sober a long time and he had a nice looking wife and he had a lot of money. And I'm like, what are you doing here? And he said, well, I'm doing the panel and like, well, I have no life. I know why I come to the panel

and this these guys showed me you go do this stuff. This is for real. We take this seriously. So I'm driving home thinking I'm not going to go see Mike. And literally the hospital's

two blocks from my house. It's right around the corner from my house. And I don't want to go see him. I really don't because I got nothing for him. You know, I'm, I'm feeling pretty upset inside. I'm feeling kind of empty. And I'm driving by the hospital and my car pulled in. You know, it just pulled in and it's raining and I've got a suit on and I, so I got to get out and put my raincoat on and my hat and I'm looking at the rain. I'm looking at the emergency room and I don't want to go in,

so I get up, get out of the car and it with just

really just walked in there feeling totally out of it, not connected. I got nothing for Mike. I don't really give a damn about him to be honest. At that moment, I'm just being honest.

I'd like to tell you I'm always full of enthusiasm. I'm not. And I walked in an emergency room and there's the woman again in ICU and she's saying I'm sorry, family only. And I said, well, this guys in an alcoholic coma. I've been coming every day. I'm his sponsor in AA. He doesn't have any family. Do you think maybe I could see him?

And she looks as upset as I am at her day and as down as I am. And she's, you know, emergency room nurses. That's not a fun life. And she's flipping through his file and my, my business card is stapled to every page of his file. And I'm like, that's me. That's me, that's me. And I don't, I don't even want to have this argument. I want her to give me permission to get in my car and go home,

but she doesn't. She said well, I guess but he's just in there and he's not doing anything and he's strapped down. He's in the common. I walk in there and they left the lights off. I sit at the end of his bed and he has no teeth. And I forgot I I was looking at him, his mouth open and he's bright yellow. I mean yellow like that shirt. He was yellow. And I looked at him and he looked like he was dead and his mouth was open and his teeth were all messed up. Most of them were gone. And I remembered that he had told me he didn't like to go to the dentist. And so I'm looking at him and

sat there for about 15 minutes and it was dark and gloomy in there and it wasn't comfortable. But I just thought, well, I said I'd come.

So I sat there and when I felt like I had paid my dues, I got up and walked over the side of his bed. I'm just going to say goodbye to him. And he grabbed my hand and he sat straight up and he scared the shit out of me

and I

and he looked up at me and he said, am I crazy?

And I looked right at him and I don't know why I said this. I think it, I think something else in me said this. I said, no man, you're not crazy, you're an alcoholic. And he looked around the room and he didn't know where he was. And he looked back at me and he said, why do you love me so much?

And I felt guilty and I looked at him and I said because you're just like me,

you're me. And the whole world changed. Everything was perfect. All the planets aligned, the room changed in me, everything changed. And he felt it too. I could tell he felt it too,

and I hadn't failed to enlarge my spiritual life.

It didn't matter that I wanted to. You don't have to want to,

and I didn't go to see Mike in the hospital to dump about my shitty day.

I just went there to try to help by being present

and I was driving in today with Billy and Mike called

my Garella hospital.

Mike sober. Mike has a job. Mike's an active member of our Home group.

That's what happens here. And my message to you is it's OK if you don't always want to do it. I've learned that because I don't always want to do it. But if you go do it, some really wild shit can happen.

I

guess what Mikes nickname is

Jesus.

We'll report that to Liver Mike.

He's the one with the worst liver in the room.

Maybe. Maybe there's a good contest there though.

That's a great story.

You ever had anybody say to you

he's not emotionally available for me?

You ever heard that?

They say that to us in many different ways. They say

you don't hear me when I talk to you,

you don't listen,

you're not there for me, you don't understand. They say it

and we look at them and we go,

what the hell are you talking about? What is it you want from me?

They think we're hiding something.

They don't know that we don't have what they're looking for,

you know,

and what they mean when they say that to us, that you're not emotionally available for me is that I've got something that they want and I'm withholding it.

And the truth is worse. I don't have it

and I don't know

that I don't have it.

You've convinced me that I've got it

and I'm helping you look for it.

And this is going to go on

forever.

Forever.

And now that I'm a newcomer in AA,

if you would like me to be there for you because things are starting to look better now. I'm not drinking and I'm showing up for work and I'm I'm present

for experiences that are happening now. I'm the conversations are different. Things are looking up

if you'd like me to really be there for me, for you, if you'd like me to be intimate with you and, and what I mean by that term is where I can actually feel what you feel. I'm not just reacting to how you feel impacts me. I'm not just responding to your emotions. I actually have emotions of my own that I can connect with years and we can interact on this emotional level and sometimes nonverbal where I I get where you are. I feel you in the room. And

if you're disturbed, I don't have to try to fix you. I can just kind of be there for you if that's what you're really looking for

from me. It's going to take about 10 years.

I mean, it's not going to happen. All of a sudden you extract alcohol from my environment and what you have is somebody that is very tense. You know, this is all very new. I don't know how to go to work without medication. I don't know how to interact with you. I can't comprehend having sex in sobriety.

I mean, how do you actually look at them and make the deal and stuff? You know, I mean, what do you do with that? I mean to it was really incomprehensible. I don't think I'd ever had sex sober. So it was real hard for me to imagine doing. It's very uncomfortable. And you can't admit that too, you know, because it's very masculine. So you have to kind of keep that to yourself and pretend, pretend like you're getting laid a lot, you know, you know, to maintain the image. You know, you don't want people to know that you're just a frightened little boy inside. You don't even know that you're a frightened little boy. You cover it up with

stuff. The way men cover that up is with anger and arrogance in pomposity and stuff like that. At least that's what I do with it, you know. And

if all I do in that 10 year period is go to 875,000 meetings, nothing will change.

It won't even get a little bit better.

I mean, I might get promoted at work, you know something, But the chances are I might even start getting fired a lot. I might start losing jobs and stuff.

Every time they want to give me more work, I might look that at that, like they're trying to take advantage of me, you know, You ever heard that sometimes you'll talk to guys and they'll say, well, yeah, they want to give me a promotion, but I'm not buying into that. They're going to give me a little bit of more money and a whole lot more responsibility. And they're not pulling that on me. And I'm looking at the guy like, they want to promote you, dude. This is a positive event in your life, you know?

Oh, bullshit. They're just trying to take advantage of me, you know,

this weird reaction to things, you know, very strange, very immature kind of reaction to stuff. You know,

the thief thinks everyone else is a thief. He figures he'll steal from you. You'll probably steal from him. That's our perception of the world, you know? The alcoholic is kind of paranoid and suspicious because he's a creep, you know? And he thinks everybody else is creepy too, you know? So that's our reality, you know, we haven't had the psychic change yet. We're just sober, that's all.

Now, if I work the steps, if I work the steps, if I work steps like one through 9 and I do an inventory and I make some amends, things will get a little bit better. But that isn't going to do it. That's not it.

The first step says I am powerless

now. They took it easy on us. They said we're powerless over alcohol because they didn't want to tell us the whole story for fear that we would run screaming down the street.

My experience with powerlessness is, which I think takes about 20 years to really grasp the depth of it.

You know, he's kibitzing back here.

I think I'm utterly powerless. I don't think I have any power over anything at all. And I'm one of these guys in a a that believes that when I got here, I was powerless and by working the steps I am then not re empowered. So now that I have power, I think what the truth is is that in nature I have no power. It nature does not require me to have any power at all.

Everything just kind of unfolds all by itself. It doesn't require any input from me at all. It just kind of unfolds. And my job in this process is to be an audient, to watch the unfolding, to be part of it in the sense that I'm an observer of it. It doesn't unfold because of me. I am not the catalyst. It doesn't require that from me. If it's true that I'm utterly powerless,

then I can't possibly manage anything because managers have power.

So yes, my life is unmanageable by me. But the truth about that is it doesn't require me to manage it.

I don't need to manage anything. And my suffering lies and the fact that I think I have power or should have power. And I insert myself into this process and I become extremely frustrated. And I suffer from this because I keep trying to make things different than they are. I look at things and I label them right and wrong.

I go, well, that shouldn't have happened. That's not fair. There's no justice in that. That's incorrect. So now I've had the negative event and on top of that, I've determined it shouldn't have happened. And now I suffer on top of the hurt from the negative event and I create all the suffering in my life. It does not come from nature. It comes from me, in my judgment of it.