Summer Serenity at the Beach in Destin, FL

Way I understand it, Charlie P just got married recently to his lovely wife Katie and and but he told me and I want to hear the truth about this. They've dated for 25 years.

So with that, come on up Charlie.

Y'all nervous?

Let me make sure I get this. Is that alright, Terry?

I'm Charlie Parker. I'm a grateful recovered alcoholic,

a member of the Primary Purpose group in Austin, TX. We meet on Tuesday nights to study the Big Book line by line, week by week, and I usually have about 175 people on a Tuesday night studying the Big Book. If you're ever in Austin on a Tuesday night, we'd love to. We'd love to have you I

my sobriety date is March 22nd of 1985 and for that I am truly grateful. I have a sponsor. I have a new sponsor. My sponsor passed away in February.

Mark Houston was my sponsor up until this past February and

I have a new sponsor now and his he has Larry Jay from Dallas and his sponsors, Tom I and I'm real proud of that. All those associations. I, I, I'm real happy to be here tonight. I've got Katie with me. I,

I want to thank the committee for having me here. It's a real honor to be involved in Alcoholics Anonymous at any level, whether it's making the coffee or chairing the meeting or getting to talk at a conference. I mean, it's just a real honor to be a part of a fellowship that I love so much. I, I want to thank the host and you know, Chris for all the work that he's done. And, and Price picked us up at the airport today and took us out for a really nice lunch. And, and, you know,

if you've been involved in a, in a conference like this or have you ever been involved in putting one of these things together? You know that there's just a whole lot that goes into putting one of these things on. There's a lot of people that do a lot of work to get one of these things to come together. And if it's if it's like the a, a where I come from, there's also a whole lot of people that don't do a darn thing,

but but they have a lot of ideas about how it could have been done just a little bit better, you know? I mean,

that's the fellowship I crave, you know,

but I'm real glad to be here tonight. I got a We are here from Texas, Austin, TX. Katie and I are here from Texas. There's people here from all over. I

the way I was raised, my father told me it was impolite to ask anybody where they're from because he said if they're from Texas, they'll tell you, and if they're not, you shouldn't embarrass them. But

but I got to, I got to straighten up a little bit about what he was saying about Katie. Katie and I do have my lovely wife Katie is here with us and, and a darn good a, a on in her own right. And I hope to talk about some of that a little later. But we have known each other. We were litter mates coming in and in 85. She came in 84 and I came in in 84. Well, I came in in 84 too, but I've been sober since 85. But we sobered up together. She was 26, I was 28

at the time and she was married the 1st 20 years that I knew her and we were like brother and sister. It was really the first really close female friendship I'd ever had. And

seven years ago, her husband passed away, unfortunately, from a brain tumor. And and then she caught me in a weak moment one day and, and we, we started, we started dating and, and it's, it's just been, it's been great. It's a, it's a wonderful thing. And I hope you get a chance to visit with Katie during the course of the weekend. I mean, before I go any further, I should look and see what time it is

before I go any further. What a place this is. Oh, my God. I mean, if you're listening to this on the CD, and I want to thank Terry for being here recording this, you got to get to this thing. I mean, this is the last thing we did was two weeks ago at a Franciscan monastery in upstate New York. And it was a little more Spartan than the accommodations here. I mean,

I mean, we checked into our room there and I and I remember thinking

this is a lot like being in jail, You know, I mean, the, the, the our cell, I started to say our room was, was pretty plain at that place, but it was, it was fun being there. But I mean, this is unbelievable. I mean, and you know, if you, we were lucky enough to get around and go on a few conferences and they're not all like this one. I mean, this is, this is just starting tonight, but I'm really looking forward to, especially once I get my talk over, I,

I can just kind of chill for the rest of the weekend. And but, you know, my purpose here tonight is to talk about what I was like,

what happened, and what I'm like now. And you know, it always, but in a it always reminds me of this story about this. He told a joke. I'm going to tell when you may have heard this before, but I like it and I like the way I tell it. So I'm going to, I'm going to go ahead. But there's this guy that's driving along one day and he sees a sign at this farmhouse and it says talking dog for sale. And he stops the car and he goes up to this farm and he goes, you got a talking dog for sale. And the guy goes, yeah, he's around back and he goes around back and there's

hound dog laying there. And he says, so you can talk. The dog says, well, I certainly can. And he says, how did that happen? He goes, well, when I was young, when I was a pup, I started picking up the language a little bit here and there. And as I got older, I developed the nuances of the language and voice inflection, that sort of thing. And it's really been, it's LED an amazing life for me. I work for the Drug Enforcement Administration for 22 years, and I was able to infiltrate some scenes that no human agent could have ever gotten into. And

beyond that, I've eaten in some of the finest restaurants in the world and stayed in some of the finest hotels. But even more interesting that some of my pups

have become international diplomats and have traveled all over the world. And it's All in all, it's just been an amazing life for me. And the guy says, well, it's just been fascinating talking to you. And he goes back up to the farmer and he says, how much do you want for a dog like that? And the guy goes, I don't know, 20 bucks? And he goes, why would you sell a fabulous dog like that for 20 bucks?

And the guy goes,

none of that crap he told you is true,

Yeah.

Surrounding Hey, it doesn't really matter how good the story is if it's, if it's not coming out of my own experience. I,

I grew up in Dallas, TX. I was born in 56 at the towards the tail end of the baby boom, but it was in the baby boom. There were 61 children on the block that I grew up on. And, and I come from a pretty normal family. I mean, I know that normal is a setting on a washing machine, but it's pretty normal. I've heard enough fifth steps over the years to know that a lot of people had it a hell of a lot worse than I ever had it growing up. And I mean, it was just a pretty regular family. There wasn't anybody drinking. There wasn't

beating each other up there. What you know, it was just, you know, pretty decent little family. But I did have, my mother was a school teacher for 42 years, 1st grade school teacher. So I was pretty well prepared for the 1st grade. I in fact, I kind of kicked ass in the 1st grade. I was, you know, but and then my sister was kind of perfect. My sister was National Honor Society, first chair, flautist, drum majorette, you know, you name it.

And, and I'm this kind of thuggish little brother and, and, but I, I grew up. Anybody else grew up under the burden of potential?

You know, I mean, I grew up hearing about my potential. And why can't you live up to your potential? And why can't you be more like Charles Miller across the street? And I remember thinking, well, it's flattering that you'd say that, Mom, But I mean, I'm really not holding back that much. You know,

it's like you, you're kind of getting my best shot here, you know,

but

I didn't start drinking till I was 16. I started drinking when I was 16 years old. And it's funny, I used to think the way I grew up, I grew up in a Baptist Church in Dallas and I, I used to think that 16 was kind of young to get started drinking. And nowadays it's not even young to stop, you know, I mean, it's, you know, I mean, there's people picking up desire chips at nine or something, you know, I mean, but

I don't mean to bust anybody. Much love for the young Alcoholics. I mean, you know, I because I mean, I started drinking at 16 and I probably didn't really need this program till I was like 17, you know, I mean, I had, I had kind of held it together there for a while, but I mean, I was, I, I went at it pretty hard. And you know, our big book, this is a big book of Alcoholics Anonymous. A friend of mine bought for me. It's nothing.

No outside literature. It's just a large print version of the big book Alcoholics Anonymous. And I love this book. It it didn't. It doesn't wait long to start making us promises. Right there on the cover page says how many thousands of men and women

have recovered from alcoholism. And I like to,

in that book, it says in the doctor's opinion, it says men and women drink essentially because they like the effect produced by alcohol.

Everybody with me on that one. You know, I mean, it is OK to like the effect produced by alcohol. I think it's a little understated. You know, the doctor wasn't one of us. I, I mean, because I mean, I like banana pudding, you know, but but I love the effect produced by alcohol. I didn't just burn my world to the ground multiple times over something I kind of dig a little bit, you know, I mean,

I kind of had a little thing for alcohol, but but you know,

but by the time I was 17 or 18I crossed a line in my drinking it, you know, I crossed some sort of invisible line. I don't know when it happened exactly. I think that's why they call it an invisible line. But

somewhere along the line I started

what makes me alcoholic? And it's funny. I mean, how many people in AA will there's a lot of people in a a that would say they're alcoholic that don't really know what it means to be alcoholic. You know, I mean, I said I was, I know that because I was one of them for a good while. That's been a good deal of time sitting in a, a meetings, raising my hand and saying my name is Charlie. I'm an alcoholic. And I, I didn't have any idea what it meant. I thought I was alcoholic because I'd had DWI's and I'd lost jobs and I crashed cars and I'd been to jail and that

but but what makes me alcoholic is 2 things. I got a physical allergy to alcohol that makes me react funny when I take a drink. And then I like to say that I only have two problems with drinking. One happens to me when I drink it and when 2 problems with alcohol one happens to me when I drink it and the other one happens to me when I don't drink it. You know, it's I got the what happens when I drink it is this

phenomenon of craving that it kicks in. And when I take a drink alcohol, I don't have any control over how much I'm going to drink or when I'm going to stop or how long it's going to last.

But the second part of that, you know, I always say, if, if that was my biggest problem, my answer would be just don't drink, you know? But

my problem wasn't that I couldn't stop drinking. I couldn't stop starting. Every time I would stop drinking, I would always start again. And that's where the second part comes in. The book calls it. And the book does a beautiful job of describing all this stuff in the 1st 43 pages for I've also got this mental obsession. I get so uncomfortable sober

that after a period of time I am going to drink again. And, you know,

they use a lot of words when I came in that I wasn't used to using, you know, I mean, anybody else experienced that in the book? I mean, did you did you ever sit around the bar and talk about phenomenon of craving? And, you know, I don't think I ever said phenomenon at all. You know, I mean, and I had to look it up in the dictionary to find out. It means something that happens, but we don't really know why it happens. It's just kind of a weird thing that happens. But but you know, then you hear some of these terms in a, a that don't have anything to do with Alcoholics Anonymous,

you know, but they've worked their way into the fellowship. And, and you know,

our book talks about

the X problem drinker who is on page 18. It says the ex problem drinker who's found our solution, who's properly armed with the facts about himself, can generally win the the confidence of a new man in a matter of hours and says until such a identification, this is the key part. It says until such an identification is reached, little or nothing can be accomplished.

So little or nothing can be accomplished until we establish that identification. It makes it sound like that identification is a pretty important, but I mean, we're talking about identification, you know, and I mean, and one of the terms that they used to use in treatment center was did anybody ever use the term, hear the term drug of choice in the treatment center? Anybody, anybody hear that? Did anybody talk like that on the street? I mean,

seriously, I mean, Can you imagine being sitting at somebody's house, you know, and somebody goes,

look what I have and I'm going to go, well, I'm sure that's nice for you.

Different strokes and all, but doesn't happen to be my particular drug of choice. You know, I I'm just going to take you boys. Go ahead. I'm going to take a seat over here and wait for my drug of choice to appear.

But I mean, but I, but having said that, I have deep experience with outside issues, you know, and, but I'm, I'm speaking in an, a, a conference. I'm speaking as an alcoholic and as an, a, a meeting. And I have deep respect for a, a singleness of purpose.

And it comes with that identification in that a is about Alcoholics working with Alcoholics. And you know, that identify, that's where it says that identification until such an identification takes place, little or nothing can be accomplished. And you know, we all, you remember the first time you, you talked to somebody that had quit drinking, that drank like you did, how you knew something special was going on. I mean, cuz I, if you drink like I do, you're used to people wanting to talk to you about your drinking. I mean that, you know, that's

usually right after I run, you know, they're like, why did you do it? And you know, and I gave him the only answer that we had. It's the same answer you guys had. And you know, it's what, why'd you put on that run again? I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. You know what? And it doesn't help him a lot if you, even if you study the 1st 43 pages, it doesn't make your family feel much better when you go. Well, Mommy, see, I have a a mental obsession

driven by a spiritual malady that triggers a phenomenon of craving. And you know,

but that identification is key. I mean, and you know, it's funny because really, out of all the 12 step programs, the only difference in any of them and there's a squillion of them. I mean, I even heard about a lip balm Addicts Anonymous the other day in case anybody has ever had that heartbreaking malady's. But but

out of all the 12 step programs, the only difference in any of them is the the first part of the first step and the middle part of the

12 step. What I'm powerless over and who I carry the message to. And that's all driven by that identification. And

first of all, I just want to y'all see the coat and tie and you know, I it may not be important to y'all. It's very important to every sponsor I've ever had that you get up behind the podium wearing a coat and tie. I may come out of it pretty soon, but the bulk of my experience where I got to a A in a coat and tie. My job was to just stand there and say

no contest, Your honor,

you know, So I'm happy to be here, but I,

this collar is getting a little tight, honey.

I

that's even.

But you know, talking about that identification, it's really something when it's not there. I mean, that's something I was in a treatment center. I went to a treatment center back in 83 and I'll never forget I was there in the holidays. I checked in on December 8th of 83 and there was a we were getting ready to have our Christmas dinner. Now I'm a big boy now, but I was about 35 lbs heavier when I checked into treatment. And the reason I say that is Christmas Day and I was really interested in this Christmas dinner. I mean,

it was like the whole thing, Turkey and dressing and cranberry sauce and mashed potatoes and gravy and rolls and, and I swear to God, I'm just sitting down into my chair and the door swings open and in walks about 5 do gooders from one of the local churches and they've come to sing, to sing to us heathen, alcoholic.

And you can imagine my excitement and and this I see them, they're coming around and this one woman is going along and she's talking. She's she leans over, she says something to this guy. Then she leans over, says something to this lady. And then she leans over says something to this lady and this guy. And I'm watching her and she gets to me and she says,

are you a patient here? I said, yes, I am. She said, I know exactly what you're going through. I said, really? She said I was once addicted to caffeine

and I was like, ain't that a bitch, You know? I mean, did did you ever pawn your mom sterling silver to buy a can of Folgers? You know, I mean,

I mean, God bless her. She was trying to identify, but it just it wasn't there. But you know, that's the thing. But back to my drinking. I I was drinking. I didn't drink. It would be real macho to stand up here and say that I drank a bottle of whiskey every day from the time I was 16 until I checked, you know, in for the what I hope was the last time and and and when at the age of 28, that wouldn't be true. But what is true for Charlie Parker is that I never one time

turn down the opportunity to get loaded under any circumstances for any reason. Never one time, never, ever one time. There was never. Now that's not everybody's story in a a, a whole lot of people kept it together a lot better than I did. But for me, there was never one time where I went, oh, Gee, you know, it's my mom's birthday tomorrow, you know, anything like that. It was just let's go. And I, you know, and, and I didn't know that, but I didn't, but it started getting kind of.

And because it works pretty well for a while, I mean, you know, and, and, and then it started getting a little loose. And

one night I left a bar in a blackout. I was blackout drinker. Katie was not a blackout drinker. I was a blackout drinker. I blacked out regularly. I kind of thought that was the goal, you know,

But I left this bar in a blackout one night and I had five Long Island Tees and there was a collision and I could see the Fender. I can only see about this big round and I could see a Fender kind of up here and but I'm still rolling. And I kept, I drove around the corner and I had to grab my shoes for some reason.

And I ran back to the bar with my shoes in my head. I don't know why my shoes were off, but I was, I was a lot of stuff was sketchy about that now. But I'm running back to the bar underneath this row of trees. And as I run past the car that I'd hit, there's glass on the ground everywhere. And there's two cops standing there with a flashlight and they're shining it. And I remember seeing the glass tinkling on the and, and I was just in my drunken state. I remember thinking,

my God, they got here fast, you know, I mean, how did they get in? So I run back and I reported the car stolen and and,

and, and this is not an extraordinary day. This is, you know, this is this is a day in the life of Charlie. I mean, it could have been. This is not a anything but so I mean it's my natural tendency to

afford got a little squeak to it. That's not me. That's

but

I called the car and the next morning the police called me and I said, Mr. Parker, you're going to have to. I should I left out of the story. Katie thinks this is an important part of the story, that it was my mother's car.

I, I was so poorly treated as a child that I finally ran away from home for good at the age of 28. I mean, I'm serious. I'm not kidding. I never went back. I mean, you know, that's a now I had some apartments and stuff during the time, but I but I was kept landing back and I wrecked every car my mother ever owned

And and this was one of them. And this

was called the nerd wagon. It was fabulous. It was a we call it the nerd wagon because a little brown Fairmont station wagon with center cap hub rings. And I mean this thing,

we had a great stereo on it, but I like it could be 3:00 in the morning and you could, you could have two hookers strapped to the hood and you wouldn't get pulled over. I mean, you know, they would look at this station wagon and go. He suffered enough, you know, I mean,

but but I I'll go back. And the next one I go, Mr. Parker, you're going to have to,

you're gonna have to come take a polygraph test where you pick your car up. I said, well, why is that? They said, well, it was involved in a collision before it was reported stolen. Let's see, you're kidding. And he said, no, They ran into a, they ran into a parked police car.

And I remember thinking, that explains how they got there so fast. You know, I mean, because I've been fuzzy on that one. But

but I somewhere on page 24 in our book, it talks about

it says

at a certain point in the drinking of every alcoholic, he passes into a state where the most powerful desire to stop drinking is of absolutely no avail.

I started losing the power of choice and drink with a paragraph below that says the fact is that most Alcoholics for reasons yet obscure, have lost the power of choice and drink. Our so-called willpower becomes practically nonexistent. I'm unable at certain times to call into my memory with call into my conscience was sufficient for us. The memory of the suffering humiliation of a week or a month ago is without defense against first drink and I didn't know it. I had lost the power of choice and control and drinking and the way I like to talk about.

I like, I used to love pawn shops, still kind of like them. But I mean, I used to love pawn shops. I like the whole equation of a pawn shop. I liked the whole deal because

I was leading kind of a shameful existence and I've never one time walked into a pawnbroker and had him go, good God, man, what are you going to do with this money? You know, or, or, or weren't you just in here this morning or, you know, or something like that? I mean, you just hand them the shotgun and, and, and then you go with the money and it's, it's just like that. Now. I should point out that I didn't own a lot of stuff, so I was having to pawn stuff that didn't belong to me

and that creates a lot of hard feelings in your family and stuff. But I mean, but I had a plan. You know, we Alcoholics make some kick ass plans. I mean, we, we really do. I mean, we make some, we make plans. If you show them to anybody, they go, it's pretty good plan, you know, I mean, you know, and, and they work right up till they stop working, you know, and, and the plan with this was you could pawn stuff and you had 90 days to do something to get everything out of the pawn shop. And, and then you could roll

little while longer. You can kind of keep that cycle going and well, until it stopped working. And that because by now I've lost the power choice. I came out of a five day blackout. One day I pulled an insurance scam and it was enough to get everything out of the pawn shop. And I was just going to stop in and have a couple of drinks, you know, because I got a pocket full of money. Now we got a full day of pawn shopping to do and, and, and, and I just stopped in for a couple of drinks. The next thing I knew, I came out of a five day blackout. Now, I didn't have many of those.

I had a lot of overnight black eyes, but this was five days. I've just barely remembering anything. And

when I came out of the blackout, I had $8 in my pocket and I still had this big old roll of pawn tickets and hadn't gotten a darn thing out of the pawn shop. And you know where it talks about emerging from a spree, emerging remorseful with a firm resolution not to drink again. I just remember we've all had this morning. I just remember sitting there going, oh, no, Oh no, you know, I mean, because I've shot my wad getting everything out of the, you know, to get, pulling that one scam to get everything out. And now I've I've got

and I would have to go to my father. And my father was a Goodman and he worked hard for his stuff. Nobody was giving him his stuff. And here's his little drunken son up pawn and everything. And I would have to go to my dad and say, dad,

if we act now,

I can get you a pretty good deal on all of your stuff, you know, and, and if there are any al anons in the room, I apologize because I know that ain't right. I mean, I, I was a sick boy, but I knew that that wasn't right. And and I a lot of times I have to tell it like a joke or I'll tear up during that. I should warn you in advance that I'm a Harley rider and all that stuff, But I'm not able to cry like a little girl in a pink dress up here at any moment. I mean,

and I feel it when I get about a two second warning when it happens, but

but I would have to go. And the thing about it was we would get in the truck and it would be this was in Dallas and Dallas, a big spread out town. And it was like we, it wasn't just go to the pawn shop. It was we got to go over on Buckner Blvd. and get your shotgun. We got to go over to E Grant and get the deer rifle and your your metal detectors over on Beltline Road and, and the corn collections in Oak Cliff and the sterling silver is in Garland. And, you know, so it was all day in the car with me and my dad and

all that shame, you know, just, and while we would be riding in the car,

while we'd be riding in the car, I'd be going, Dad, I swear to God, I will never do this again. And I'm if I was lying to that man, I damn sure didn't know it because I meant it with every fiber of my bend that I will never do this again. I knew that was wrong. I knew I was hurting people. What I didn't know

was about lack of power.

I didn't know

that I didn't have the power to make good on that promise when I was promising him that I was never going to do that again. I might as well have been promising him that I was going to flat my arms and fly around this room and come back and land behind the podium because I did not have the power to do it. And I and I, but it felt like I meant it.

But within two days I would hit the back door of his house like a cat burglar and it was just come in and go that and off we'd go. And before I got sober, my dad was an Al Anon and I had, we had been done the rounds of the pawn shop three times before I got that was just the times when I couldn't pull it together to get everything out. That's how slick I was. That's how cool I was when I was drinking.

That's how much I had it together, you know, was a burden on my family and everybody that knew me or was or was unfortunate enough to love me.

I like to point that out because, you know, there was a guy I was, I do a lot of work out at this men's treatment center. There's a guy who's getting ready to be released and I'll never forget. He goes, you know, I mean, they told me when I get out, I got to, I got to get a sponsor and I got to do it. You know, I got to make the meetings. I got to do that. So the guy ain't going to do that stuff, man. He goes because I'm, I'm kind of slick, you know, he says, I'm, I've got my own plan figured out. And I went hold up, hold up, hold up, pal. I suggest a minute. I said when you call me

from a penthouse in Manhattan and you're partying with Donald Trump and the New York Giants cheerleaders and stuff, we'll talk about how slick you are.

But when you check yourself into the Austin Recovery Center, you kind of cash in all your slick chips, You know? I mean, it's like they just go right into the middle of the table. You know? It's like we don't get here on a winning streak. But,

but really, I want to, I want to blast through my early days in a, a, because really mine is a story of more like really what I was like, what happened then, what happened and what it's like now. Because I, I mine is a story of untreated alcoholism in the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous to a great extent. And that's, that's the message I really like talk about because I came today in the early days and my early days and I worked the steps,

kind of fancied myself as a big book thumper. I, I went to big book meetings. We had a big book meeting at the house.

I went to three Joe and Charlie big book studies, you know, and I mean, and but I just I just missed a lot and my beloved ex sponsor, Mark Houston used to say.

Whoa, used to say. How do you know what you don't know?

And I just missed an awful lot in my early days in sobriety. And

looking back on it, I didn't know it then, but I was working a program like the problem was alcohol. I'd come in today and I was living as if my problem was alcohol, you know, and I think it'd be news to a lot of people in the world. And even a lot of people say, hey, that the problem with alcoholism is not alcohol. You know, if the problem is alcohol, you don't even belong here, you know. Well, but I didn't know that. And and, and, and So what I did was I kind of worked the steps and but

I was when I was operating on that basis that the problem was alcohol. It was kind of like, you know, that guy, the one that says, well,

I screamed at my wife on the way out the door this morning. I slapped a couple of the kids and I was two hours late for work and looked at an hour and a half of Internet porn in my cubicle and then left, you know, gambled a little bit on the Internet, left work an hour and a half early and eight 1/2 gallon ice cream on the way home. But I didn't drink today. And that makes me a winner,

you know, like, well, it kind of makes you a Nimrod, you know, But I haven't always said Nimrod either. I, I clean that up, but you know,

what had happened was the book takes a real turn on page 60 and I had missed it for a long time and, and I was living a life based on the problem being alcohol on that basis, on the basis of living life like my solution to it was that was that the problem was alcohol. I was in constant collision with something or somebody in sobriety for a long time. And, and I I hit the wall in sobriety.

This probably doesn't happen in Florida, but it was it was rampant in Texas in the 80s. I, I hit the wall at about 4 1/2 years sober

and I pulled back and I took another run at it and I hit the wall again at about seven years. And then I just kind of coasted into a period of my sobriety that I like to call my flat period kind of, I was just, and it was just meeting based sobriety. I mean, I was I was basically just a guy that was very, very much about not drinking and I was very much about being an A a member and I went to a meeting occasionally.

But looking back on it, there wasn't a whole lot else going on. And you know what happened with me. And the thing that I like to report is that those bedevilments on page 52 where it talks about

unable to control our emotional natures, a lot of that stuff that all that stuff's available in sobriety. And I experienced it, you know, in sobriety. And

it's just back to that thing about how do you know what you don't know? I mean, Katie's story is a lot the same with for her, the good stuff in a in in recovery. The gifts of sobriety had kind of pulled her away from the fellowship. I had kind of hit the wall two or three times. I got to the point where I was like, you know,

to hell with this, I'm going to do it my way, you know, I'm going to get what I need. And, and really it was, it was a dark period of my sobriety and I got in a very dishonest marriage and, and had a lot of things going on. And

I don't have any idea how close I was to drinking, but I know that I was, I know that I was going along. And one day I'd married this very wealthy woman and we had a place out in the Hamptons on the eastern Long Island. And we had chartered a plane to fly from La Guardia back into New York City. And the first time I never charted a plane in my life. And, and we got up in the air and we're flying along and

all sudden it goes

and all of a sudden we're in a glider and I put the headset on. I'm in the copilot seat. And hey, I hear them say you're cleared to Gabreski Airport and they're looking, there's a runway right there at 10:00. And we're not going to make it. I mean, he says, you don't understand. We've we've lost engine power. I can't make land. I'm going to have to ditch. And I remember going

what, you know, I'm a gambler. I'm a lifelong gambler.

What are the odds that the first time you ever charter a plane, it's going to go in the drink? You know, I mean, that's like winning the lottery, but but we bring it down and we're coasting in for a landing and I'll never forget it. You know, we're, we're coming in and the he's he's turning in. Fortunately, I had retractable landing gear, so I had a smooth belly, but he brings it in. I'll never forget he at one point he goes brace for impact and we're like,

pardon me,

how exactly do you do that? You know,

you know, but but we bring it in and it's like splashdown at Six Flags times 1000, you know, water and spray and noise and all of a sudden complete silence. And I remember thinking, my God, we landed this thing. Well, this wasn't much of an airplane, but it was a really crappy boat. And, and

about about the time I realized we were going to be OK, I felt something climbing up my legs and it just went and I meant, and by the time I went up to get a breath of air, there was nothing but water on the roof of the plane. And I remember thinking, so that's it.

I die in this stupid airplane, you know, and the door wouldn't come open. And then finally it came open and we all got out. There were five adults. We got out and, you know, Anderson Cooper interviewed us on CNN and all this stuff. But I mean it, we came very, very close to drowning. Anyway, everybody survived, everybody but my dog. The dog was with us and the dog didn't make it, but but all the people got out and,

you know, an event like that

change the way you look at things, you know, and, and for a few days I was just really, really grateful, really grateful. They, you know, how you doing? Oh, I'm doing good, you know, and, and they started getting kind of angry, you know, I started getting a little angry. And I mean,

and, but I went to John Henry, this guy in Austin, and I just remember going to him saying John Henry. Now, Katie Evans, my best friend at this point, but she may have helped point this out to me because she's always been very generous with her input with me.

So I remember going to John Henry and going John Henry. I'm so self hand centered, I can't even be involved in a conversation with anybody. You know, I mean, I just have to force myself to go.

How are the kids? You know, and, and act like I give a flip about the answer because I don't, I mean, I, you know, I'm self and, and you know, one of the biggest mistakes that I see if, if there's any mistakes being made, one of the biggest mistakes I see in a is, is taking somebody. We're good at the first step, but taking somebody from the second step. And then are you willing to believe in that? There might be a power. And if the guy says yes, popping him down on his knees and doing a third step prayer and rolling into the four step, then because that was

my experience, That's what happened to me. It was my sponsor took me I first and I loved Jim and, and you know, I never seen anything bad about him. He was transmitting what was transmitted to him. But, and I might not have even done with it, but the way it happened was we went right from are you willing to believe to doing the third step prayer and roll right into the inventory process. Well, the only thing that happens as a result, you don't miss much except for this body of work between pages 60 and 63. And all it describes is the root of our problem.

It's it's the entire basis of the rest of the work and the root of my problem. And it says, I'll never forget it going back through the book with Mark and these guys are starting, you know, doing the work with these big book thumpers. And, and I remember reading along and there was a thing and that said, I, you know, after the ABC that we read in every meeting, you know, see that God couldn't would he saw it. Everybody started chanting that in the past few years.