The SA/S-Anon International Convention in Nashville, TN

I'm hard for sexaholic.

Good morning.

Part of me wants to rebel and say the heck of this form.

Hate taking directions

but

we need to go according to the form

it says. Will you please join me in this session with the Serenity Prayer

God?

Thank you.

In the spirit of the 5th tradition to carry the message, this session will be recorded. The recorder will not be turned off during this session. If you do not wish to be recorded, you may participate by listening or attend another session. We ask that those who choose to share step up to the microphone so that those who listen to the recording can follow the discussion.

My name is Harvey Ashley

Sexaholic and I've been sexually sober

for 25 years and 10 months.

The essay Purpose

Sexaholics Anonymous is a fellowship of men and women who share their experience, strength, and hope with each other that they may solve their common problem and help others to recover. The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop lusting and become sexually sober. There are no dues or fees for SA membership. We are self supporting through our own contributions.

SA is not alive with any sect,

denomination, politics, organization or institution, does not wish to engage in any controversy, neither endorses nor opposes any causes. Our primary purpose is to stay sexually sober and help others to achieve sexual surprise.

OK, excuse me, I

I need to stand by the microphone and it's not my usual approach. I'm usually dancing all over the front of the room, so I I feel a bit restrained, but maybe that's the message God is giving me.

I'm going to talk about a topic that

I think Roy's death has really brought to the surface for me. Because with him gone,

it's almost, it seems, incumbent upon all of us to emphasize what he, I think, took for granted from his own

inspiration.

I think he was so inspired when he wrote this.

What became the book? Which is he? When he wrote different articles

and and they finally put it into a book form, he was so inspired that I think he thought we understood

what he meant.

And over the years,

in looking at what he subsequently tried to do,

I think it was hard for him

to understand why people weren't getting it.

But I don't think we ever understood

what he already knew.

And what that is, is that this program

is not about sexually acting out.

This program is about lust.

It does not say we are powerless over sexually acting out. Other fellowships say we are

powerless over our sexual behavior. We have no mention of that in step one.

It says we are powerless over lust.

And yet if you

sit at lots of meetings, which I have over the years and all kinds of places and all kinds of countries, and the emphasis seems to always be on the sexually acting out

on when did I masturbate last? When did I make that obscene phone call or call someone or or go on the Internet? It's always about the behavior

and it's seldom about the lust.

You know, I, I was reviewing

the book recently, been going through it again and it just kind of startled me that in the preface of the book, in the preface, in the first sentence,

it says this book is for those who want to stop.

They are sexually self-destructive thinking

and behavior.

And if you read that on and you keep reading and you read the chapter on lust, you get to see that Roy hardly talked about the sexual acting out.

Roy kept talking about the fantasy and the memories

and what goes on in here.

You know, he even goes on to say that although the temptations never go away,

the obsession does.

So the behavior will go away, but what goes on in our brain doesn't.

And yet lust is the

driving force of our sexual acting out. That's what he writes. Lust is a driving force. Masturbation is the result of the lust. It is not the lust.

You know, turning on the Internet to look at pornography is not the lust. It's what happened before you typed in those words.

Man, this program for years has been emphasizing something

that is not the emphasis.

And we wonder

why people keep relapsing.

Well in my opinion they keep relapsing because they never have gotten sober.

They stopped some acting out,

but the acting in continues and then it's the driving force that leads to the acting out again.

So what are we talking about when it comes to the the text that this is based on, the AA book? We're talking about the doctor's opinion, which will be following up in subsequent talks here.

Thank you. Even in right in this room,

we're talking about a physical allergy accompanied by a mental obsession.

The masturbation isn't the allergy necessarily. It's part of the allergy.

The Internet is not the allergy by itself. It could be part of the allergy. The allergy is the thought that turns into a fantasy

that begins the process of craving, the phenomenon of craving. And once that phenomenon sets in,

God himself would have trouble stopping it.

You know, in AA they talk, they say God is so omniscient. He is so omnipresent, so powerful,

so omnipotent that if an alcoholic in recovery takes an open bottle of alcohol and puts it up to his lips that God is so powerful, he could knock that bottle right out. But statistically, he doesn't do that.

OK,

so

it is possible. I would imagine that while and for the guys, especially while urinating, you could stop it in midstream, that God could help you stop in a midstream. But I wish you well

try to stop urinating in midstream,

even though not only will it hurt, it's it's hard to do.

And that's what we expect

when you're in the middle of a fantasy.

Oh, just a little bit more. I could think this one.

I could let the motion picture go just a little bit longer.

I wish you well.

If you could fantasize like a gentleman, my hat's off to you.

I cannot fantasize like a gentleman because I have a damaged brain.

It is no different for me to try to stop midstream

as it would be for me to try to stop a fantasy ministry.

And for those who have been coming in a bit, I just want to review that

this, this talk is about to me, what is the true essence of this fellowship, that the true essence is not about not acting out, it's about acting in.

It's about what is lust

and are you allergic to lust or not? It's that simple question.

I am so I'll

that I cannot have a sexual fantasy.

I am so ill

that I cannot even replay the next day

what happened in our marital bed.

I cannot do anything in my head successfully when it comes to sex.

That's how sick I am. And for those of you who aren't as sick, go for it. If you could do it, fine. I have not been impressed with people being able to do it successfully.

Mean our relapse rate is dramatic.

And how does it happen? How do people start masturbating again or start going to the prostitutes and knowing they're going to get a venereal disease or it's going to cost them a lot of money or it's going to do this and do that? How does it come back? We're not dump,

I mean majority of us pretty bright people or we wouldn't have been able to juggle those balls for so long for so well.

How does it happen? It happens because once the phenomenon of craving sets in, we cannot stop it. We cannot stop it,

and so this whole talk is about what goes on in the head and how do we utilize the tools of the program, Roy says. Very clearly, we cannot get anyone sober.

We can't get people sober. We could just help them stay sober.

OK,

let's talk a little about lust.

What the hell is lust?

You know this bull stuff, You know, we have all these words, you know, surrender. Yeah. What the hell? Surrender.

Define it for me. I mean, how do you define lust? How do you define surrender? How do you define being sober?

All this, these words, they are just words.

They're like talking about what is God,

you know? How the heck do you define this stuff

and share it and talk about it with words? This God is not something

you can figure out. God is something you experience.

Lust is not something you could figure out. Lust is something you experience.

It is not lust when you're masturbating necessarily.

That's endorphins, heroin. Whatever it is,

it's part of the powerless craving cycle.

But what is lust? And by the way, we can't even define masturbation in this fellowship.

You get a group of guys and say, what do you mean by masturbation? My God my hair stands on edge sometimes.

Water boarding is nothing compared to what people on this program do to it themselves.

To avoid saying this is masturbation,

I'd rather be waterboarded than having to prevent an orgasm when you're you're touching yourself. And guys in this program will do that. They'll fit out

hours stimulating themselves, but I didn't go to orgasm. I'm sober today.

Or they'll stand in front of and sit in front of their computer aroused for hours.

If if that's not self abuse, what it is as I used to call it in

in the old textbooks.

So we have difficulty defining words. But Roy gave us some light into this about lust,

he said. Lust is a attitude,

a natural attitude that gets perverted to unnatural desires. By the way, check out whatever I say. I still lie. I make stories up. I say things are in books that don't even exist.

Be so careful when I tell you

I convinced myself I'm telling the truth.

I mean,

I laugh about it. I say things so enthusiastically that I begin to believe them.

I

I made all this up, by the way.

So all kidding aside, I think Roy was so inspired that he understood

what he meant by lust

and that somewhere along the way

we got so preoccupied about not masturbating

are not acting out

that we forget that it's about being powerless over lust.

I've told a few people this this week, but

about three years ago or whenever the Baltimore conference was,

Roy had left to meet some meetings and he was standing outside and I walked out. I was there and I went up to him and I said, Roy, you know, I'm working on stuff of what is sex with self and I'm writing some things and

well, wait, why is it so vague?

What is sex with self? Why is it so vague in the book? And he looked at me like, what are you talking about? And I said, you know, sex with self could be almost anything. And he said, why didn't you just say what you meant about it? And he looked at me and he said.

No, Harvey, you're talking about a religion

dotting every eye. This isn't a religion,

you know, we can't define this stuff for you. Oh, some obvious things, if you're going to have an orgasm or something and, and you know, but even then, some guys will be writing their first step

and

get to something they had done in the past and without them knowing that they get so excited they have a spontaneous ejaculation. Is that sex with self? So he was right. You can't dot every eye. It's difficult about it.

You know, that guy would have to define the somehow. What was his motive? What was he doing? Did he purposely do you know? And then you have the reverse, the guy who's letting himself trying to have an arousal for hours watching the computer and then saying it wasn't masturbation. So it's to thine self owned self be true,

and therefore with lust, to thine own self be true.

What is lust to you? What is that attitude?

Well, the attitude I hear so often is

all compared to what I used to do. Oh, what's what's having that little thought about that attractive woman?

Harvey, what's so bad? If I'm thinking about if my wife dies and that woman smiles at me, you know why Not marrying her in my mind,

by the way, I've never had that thought.

I just lied again. See how it goes?

And that's another topic completely about our hallucinations. You know we are insane.

I don't know about you. You might be saying I'm insane. I hope insanity has hallucinations and delusions associated with it. And if a woman says hello to me, I get an auditory hallucination. I hear her say let's have sex.

I get visual hallucinations for years in the program. It hasn't happened for a while. Today it will happen, I'm sure, since I'm saying it. But

people will be dressed and I'll see their vaginas and their penises.

They'll be dressed. I get visual hallucinations,

guys. People will show up in the shower with me out of nowhere. Other people show up in bed with me.

I mean, where the hell is this crap come from?

Well, they're visual hallucinations.

I get another part of insanity. Delusional thinking.

I get delusional thinking, you know, hey, they don't like me or they're after me or they're going to get me or, you know,

or I need to look good to my sponsor, you know, guess distortions of reality.

And so here we have this insanity

that is all Duff

integrated with our attitude of lust, where people have this delusional thinking, hey, that little thought isn't going to be a problem.

Well, I wish you well,

but I don't permit in my life motion pictures in my head. I'm too sick to have a motion picture.

I can't afford it if I want. What this program is about, By the way, this program is not about

the awfulness of lust and the awfulness of masturbation and sexually acting out. This program is about comfort.

How do we become comfortable

if you don't get what Roy talks about

a positive sobriety? I wish you well,

but it's going to be hard staying sober if you're not comfortable. There's nothing feels so good

while you're doing it as acting out.

I mean, my God, the rush, the going down walking or running or driving to think you're even going to act out. I mean, man, the rush, the heroin that shoots in your body,

well, the brain doesn't want want to let go of that unless it has something better or as good,

you know.

And so when it comes to lust in the motion picture and what happened and how does this happen in our program, even though the whole beginning of the book is about

the preface, you know, the first sentences we've said says want to stop their sexually destructive thinking and behavior. It's almost like the behaviors and afterthought. It's the thinking.

And then he says what is true sobriety. I mean, it's written everywhere. We hear it day after day at meetings when we read it.

True sobriety is.

So what the hell does that mean?

How often you say it? You don't. Even if you're like me, you don't even hear it when it's said,

well, what is it? It's all of a sudden he goes from the definition of sobriety

where you talk about behaviors

and then he says

but

per truth sobriety,

he brings in lust.

Wow.

And you know you'll experience it here. You'll be talking to someone and they'll be connected and all of a sudden they're gone. They're gone.

They're still almost looking at you.

Some attractive woman's walk by

in that millisecond. They've already talked to her, they've vetted her down. They've they're making the 2nd arrangement with her already.

She's already told them they're the best lovers they've she's ever had.

Oh, while you're talking to the person,

that's the lust.

What is going on in here? And then what does he do?

He tells us in the chapter

that's not called overcoming sexually acting out.

It says overcoming lust and temptations.

And what does he do? And what I say he does, we really don't mean. What does he mean in Roy? What did somehow this spiritual whatever going through Roy, come up on a piece of paper to tell us what to do?

This, this is inspired stuff,

you know? It's inspired stuff,

you know, we're a very fortunate group of people.

You know, some people

were at Sinai, you know, when the 10 commandments were given. You know, some people were the original Christians in Rome, you know,

so close to what they felt was their spiritual experience. And we here

are so close to people who were inspired, like Bill W2 year sobriety and he writes a book

that was unbelievable,

you know, and then you get Roy who gets inspired from

a A and then is able to write some of this stuff.

And by the way, these guys have no monopoly on this stuff.

All you have to do before you open your mouth when you speak at meetings and you don't even have to do it and it will still work, is say God, you speak for me.

Where all channels

of this divine message. How do I know that I hear things in meetings? Why the hell am I still going to 4-5 meetings a week? I hear things that God's talking to me.

I was once at this a A meeting and at my A a sponsor was in there and this old bum off the street came and he was just a mess. And about a week or two later

my sponsor quotes this guy, what he said

and I said, Cherry, how can you remember this guy was off the street? He was. How do you remember what this guy said? Weeks later he said, oh, I don't know who God picks each day to talk to me. So at the meetings. So I have to listen to every word everyone says at the meeting.

So here we have this chapter overcoming lust and temptation.

Some of it sounds a little religious to me, by the way. So I

but there's so much in there

that you get to pick and choose. I am not a caster outer. I can't God I cast this out for me. I can't do it. It doesn't work for me.

What could I tell you? But what works for me that I do morning, noon and night hundreds of times a day for years and now who knows how many times

I use this. It's become not part of my life, it's become my life. God, whatever it is I'm looking for in that woman's butt, may I find in you.

God, whatever it is I'm looking for in that guy bulge in his crotch, may I find in you.

God, whatever it is I'm looking for in that thought, may I find in you.

God, can you free them from acting out on your lust please? Like you have freed me from acting out on mine today.

God, thank you for reminding me I'm still sick. Thank you, God, for reminding me I'm still sick.

I got to tell you the most embarrassing story. It happened a few months ago. My wife and I big walkers and we walked for miles and miles and I had my iPhone on my iPod, my iPhone iPod. And I'm so into these latest sophisticated things in SO

I'm a a Broadway show nut

love theater.

And

I found a new show. It's old show, but great music. And I looked at YouTube at some of the scenes. It was on YouTube and all of a sudden I'm one of the scenes they're in

in Italy and there's a statue and she's of a naked guy, you know, one of these temples or something. She's there and I turned around, but when I turned back in the song, she was touching him for a second.

I photographed that in my mind.

It was a Broadway show and I had turned around in my it was OK or I turned around before she touched him, But I filled in the spot, you know, to that statue. I think that's what happened. So I tend to avoid that song when it comes up on the tracks.

So we're walking and I have my earphones on and I'd be the skipping it or had just started and I the song where that scene was on the video. And all of a sudden my wife says to me, Harvey, why are you saying the word penis?

I said what?

Well, my earphones were on and I must have in my mind knew that that scene or I saw that scene with him touch with her touching his penis. And I said, God, whatever it is I'm looking for in that penis, may I find it you. She heard the word penis

with my earphones on. Get out of that one, buddies,

she said. Why? Why were you saying the word penis?

And I said, you know what? And then I said

from the big book how it works. We stood at a turning point.

You know what a turning point is? A lot of y'all have heard me talk about it. It's that dot that you take

a line, you go that way, you come back to that dot

and you just go

Milly fraction to the right of it. And you put a line up and even though you can't see the space, eventually one line's there, one line's there takes you in at a totally different direction.

And so I stood at the turning point. What do I say?

And I said, oh, Nancy, I saw this video and she was about to touch his penis.

And I made a prayer. Whatever it was about, you know, in that scene in his penis, may I find in God,

she said.

We went on.

To me. It was earth shattering at the moment, John. Oh,

compared to what she's been through getting venereal diseases from me, I guess that's not so bad.

My sponsor has always told me my old sponsor may rest in peace. This guy would say Harvey. Lots of people lost respect for me and my disease, but I've never had anyone lose respect for me in my recovery.

So here we have tools to use for that first thought. The first thought is on God.

That's how I'm made.

I'll never be any different.

The second thought is on me.

Big line from Jess. Jess would say that all the time.

By the way, Jess was the first person in this fellowship. Whoever got up in front of an audience and said I am lust free today,

it's on his recordings.

I don't lust today.

Why? Well, my attitude is kind of selfish. It's a waste of time. I'm not going to act out today if my ass falls off.

It doesn't matter if

it's Madonna or

some guy or who would come up to me. If they want sex today,

I'd say, Gee, I feel

surprised. But by the way, here's a brochure.

You talk about delusional thinking when I see a young gal of 20 years old and I'm thinking, Gee, she could be my next wife. And then I look in the mirror and realize I'm 70 years old.

The distortion of reality.

So what happens?

What happens is that first thought I called the photograph and those of you all who work with me and who have meetings with me here at over and over, I am powerless over that two-dimensional photograph. It just shows up

the moment it shows up.

I'm using these automatically

or we have even a more sophisticated style in Nashville.

It's a bag of rubber bands on the wall in our little kind of clubhouse and

and a lot of times I wear a rubber band

and justice flip it at that first thought

because I'm not able to have a motion picture successfully. I know it in my heart. I know it.

How do I know if this I know my disease is alive and well? How do I know it this my dreams always having a right of content to it.

Not every dream, but pretty close. Somewhere along the dream

erotica will show up for a moment.

But is that lust? Am I going to bed hoping that half is oh God no. What I have done. I listen to music, I have special

things where it goes from 1 ear to another. So my it's like EMDR for my brain to do things. I'll take

a buffering, sometimes I'll take an anti acid.

I'm not trying to have that. That's me, that's there. That will never go away. I'll take it to my grave.

I have an incurable, progressive fatal disease and if it doesn't kill me physically, it kills me spiritually, emotionally

it kills.

And so I choose to use these tools at that photograph.

And, you know, my disease gets fed up with me. It just hardly gives me those photographs. Now,

what can I tell you? You know, I talked to my disease all the time. I I'm 70 years old. You'd think it it would be different, but I would taking a shower the other day and all of a sudden I felt something happening,

you know, excitement a bit. And I said to my disease,

if you don't leave me alone, miss, I feel it in my body right now. If you don't leave me alone, I'm getting the hell out of this shower right now. Even though my hair is all soaked up

and it left me alone, this it knew. I get the hell out of the shower

and when I say I'm not going to act out today if my ass falls off, I want to go further and this is going to shake you up. This. I don't think it's been said or I've never said it. I think on a tape there is no

reason for me as a sex addict to ever have A to permit

a a sexual arousal in my pelvic area unless it's to have intercourse with my wife.

Meaning if you wake up with it,

that's physiological. Go take a leak.

You don't have to examine it. You don't have to see if it's grown any overnight,

you can keep the rulers in the draw. I guarantee you it never changes.

Do you know if I gave as much energy to my finger? Gee, I wonder if it's straight enough or long enough. I wonder if it's big enough.

I wonder if it's if that woman likes it enough they'd lock me up.

I have two people, me and this other thing.

I'm so I'll I can't see it.

I put my underwear on under my towel.

I do not look at it in a mirror.

It is only my friend anymore when I'm intimate with my wife and when I have to urinate.

I'm sorry for the gals in the group, but what could I tell you? I haven't had the experience, strength, and hope

for the reciprocal part of this.

And by the way, we're not prohibitionists. There's nothing evil about my pelvic area. It's the greatest gift God created. And what kind of wonderful creation to think of something like that, my God,

And to feel so good and figure out how to make make it happen. I mean,

unbelievable, beautiful thing, but

for me, I have this disease. Booze is a great thing too, but not for me.

And so this isn't done for rigidity. I hope this is not done for because it's dirty. It's done for my comfort. That I guarantee you if I look at myself in the mirror,

it's not going to be two minutes later I'm going to look at it again

and then I'm going to want to look at it in a little different form

and then I'm going to want to start comparing it.

There's no end. It cannot be satisfied. Lust cannot be satisfied,

so overcoming lust and temptation, it's written here tells you how to do

What is your allergic spot?

What is lust to you? I wish I could tell you

I know what it is for me.

For me, the attitude is Harvey. Look up the movies you're going to go see and make sure there's no nudity or brief nudity in the movie.

Guess what? Sometimes they go to movies and there's no nudity or brief nudity and there it is.

But that wasn't lost for me. I was not pursuing it.

It just happened. You know

what is lust for me? When my wife undresses, but she's not as modest as I am. You know, this disease is insane. When I'm in heat,

I'll go nude anywhere, anywhere, anytime, anyplace.

I sober up. I'm the most modest person in the world

and she's not an addict. She doesn't have it. I have to walk out of the room or no matter what, I will be powerless. I will touch her butt. I will do something. I am without power

and I'm not ashamed of that today.

I'm relieved to know it because my problem today is not knowing I'm sick. It's thinking I'm well. God forbid if I ever believed

this. The stuff I get from these conferences where people think I'm it with I know this and Harvey tell me that shoot, you know I'm working my program the same way you are every day

I get up in the morning, I hit my knees. I do the third step. I give it to God. I immediately make a tooth way contract. God help me not have alcohol today and I won't have alcohol and God keep me sexually sober today and I will stay sexually sober today. I was guaranteed if I truly make

this

contract with God, this covenant with God each morning,

this I'm an addicted. Things only work for one morning. I'm not like these people who could get reborn forever as their life. My rebirth lasts only one day at a time. Can only do it for today

and I make this two way contract this. I was guaranteed that if I make it early in the morning before I could change my mind that I will truly stay sober that day even if my ass falls off.

By the way, once my front tooth was broken and it came off

and my wife said, Harvey, you can't go to a meeting looking that way. You can't.

And I said what can I tell you? I went to the meeting

and who is on Graybar at that time for those in Nashville don't remember the Graybar meeting and we're going around the room. It came my time and here's this big tooth missing. And I said, and by the way, I don't have to act out today even if my front tooth falls out.

Okay,

this is a tough topic.

I have one day

bring it to a close. It's a tough topic because for whatever reason, I feel our emphasis has been more on the result of lust rather than the lust.

In Nashville, we've been blessed with the realization that lust lives in secrecy

and that if I am not totally, totally explicit

in every detail when I'm sharing with someone,

I'm not going to get that lust out.

I can have no holds barred

and people who call me can't have any holes for it. And sometimes I have to put the phone like this,

but they need to say

every now and then. Does it happen often? But there are certain things from my life, childhood things, sexual abuse, stuff that I hear, it immediately goes to my pelvis.

I don't know why

and I just have to go like this,

but for the most part, the stuff you think is the worst thing at all possible, I've either done 20 times

or it's the furthest thing from anything that touches me that has absolutely no connection to me. And I don't mind hearing it at all.

But it, as Roy says, the athlete's foot of the brain, it only grows in dark places,

must be brought to the light.

It's so important for me

to tell you

that I still have erotic dreams. At times they pop up or I still have this delusional thinking. If I don't lead with my weakness, I will leave this place thinking I'm well

and I hope you all get something out of this. But this ain't for you. This is for me.

This is how I stay sober. It reminds me

how I'll I am

and the paradox of the program. We are like men who have lost our legs and can never grow new ones. And yet I have never not only walked better, I'm running.

In essence, symbolically,

the more I accept I have no legs, the better I'm walking. The paradox, the miracle of this program.

Through surrender, we win. By giving it away, we keep it. My God, what miraculous issues. By acknowledging our lust, we get rid of it.

Wow.

And by the way, if God loved me when I was doing all that crap,

he must be hog ass wild about you guys too. And gals, thank you. Thanks.

Right now,

no.

I.

Yeah,

right now.

Are you the are you the next speaker for? I'm Jim.

Are you going to be using the

Yes, Yes, even one. Don't set it up for me. Yes, Sir. Good,

because I tell you one, I've got a staff or did till I retired,

does all this stuff because I am completely computer illiterate. That's all right. That's

think I got you covered there, so you're all right. Really appreciate it. This has three tops in it. One of them is about the disease, and I'll show you what that is when you talk about.

Yeah.

This

is the.

He said Hello, Harold

Square.

You'll be here.

Yeah,

basically. You know the mouse, you know the left click will progress. We'll move it.