The SA/S-Anon International Convention in Nashville, TN

Sex The Hollow.

Wow,

this morning

we were eating breakfast and Jeans sat next to us. Sylvie and Jean combination and he knew my weak spot. Among others, he taught me a new application for my iPhone

and here it goes.

I have been sexually sober

226,499 hours,

one hour at a time.

They don't do this in minutes however. Yet

I've been sexually sober 9437 days

otherwise known as 310.07 months

or in English 25.84 years and the way I say

is 25 years and 10 months.

Now how do you get that sobriety day?

Have you become an old time?

Gene taught us this too. You don't act out today and you don't die.

I mean, that's all it takes. This program is very simple.

Thank you for all of you who organized this. It's one of the most organized

conferences I've been in a while and

I also can't start talking about our topic, which is Nancy and my experience. Strengthen Hope being married in this program.

We are married

now, by the way. She's my hot babe in the red jacket.

The secondly, a few extra points.

But I can't talk about any of this stuff until I mention Roy, and Roy has been brought up. But

want to mention an aspect of Roy that hasn't been mentioned yet. And that aspect

is his thought.

This man's thought

created an enormous amount from the Book of Lust Thoughts.

But that same mind that created lust, thoughts that we read about in all details in the essay book, that same mind

that God gave also had the thought of this program.

And look, look what has happened from his thought, the power of the thought. That thought can get us into a jail,

or it could get us this fellowship of the Spirit.

And why is this so important to remember about Roy? Because we're all Roy's

in the capacity to have our thought either end us up where we're getting arrested

or where we're dominoing and effect that keeps multiplying what we see today because we all are pioneers.

You know, people will call me about these questions they'll have, well, who really knows? We just act

pioneers. People haven't done this before.

We're we're going through headwinds that people have not experienced.

Mean Nancy and I have not only had to go through recovery in our marriage, but how do you deal with your children about it? How do you deal with your grandchildren about it? How do you deal with your daughter-in-law about it? We have four sons so we got plenty of daughter in laws.

By the way,

you if you see me disappear,

don't take, don't think I'm in terrible shape.

It's just I had a little problem last night and I might need a kaopectate break.

Nancy sitting there like this. But if you see me going like that to her, it means you take over for a while while I disappear.

But I'll be back.

You know the miracles in this program. This morning my voice was disappearing.

My intestines already went. I was up most of the night

and here I am talking.

What a miracle that I'm here able to talk and yet the miracle

is just minute

when you think about what God has done to a rich like me

are Wretch like the 8th

and I often say you know sometimes I used to wonder about these stories. You know part in the Red Sea and all well if God could get me sober parting the Red Sea was easily thickened.

Want to talk about our experienced strength and hope in our marriage,

but I want to start with this little kind of

story. The story is I have a sponsee over the years and his wife really gave him a tough time for years and years. How do I know you're sober? How do I know you're sober?

Over and over? She asked him. How do I really know you're sober?

By the way, you've seen I own a jacket I don't need to wear

and my tie. This is all

OK Don't panic.

How do I know you're sober? So a couple of years ago, you know, he called me over and over about this and I got off the phone. Never have I said this to my wife

before,

I said, Nancy, how do you know I'm sober?

Well, you could have pushed me over from her answer.

I mean, I couldn't have anticipated her answer. She said,

should I know your soul? I said, well, how? She said, well, I see you hit your knees twice a day. I see you rushing off to meetings all the time

and I listen to you on the phone with your sponsor and what you said.

We don't have to worry about explaining anything to our spouses

if we're sold

nothing.

And hopefully Nancy will talk some about this too,

about so much of this dynamics that go on in this fellowship with husbands and wives, the wives asking, are you sober? Are you this, are you? Is that a trigger for you? Is this a trigger?

This constant interplay

that goes on in the Fellowship. And yet what I say to guys at the meanings

and gals too, I would imagine. But to the guys at the meeting, I said, you know, this seems strange,

seems strange when you were out there doing all the crazy stuff we do.

It does not matter what your wife said to you. You did what you wanted to do anyway,

but as soon as you get sober you become Mr. Wimp.

Oh my wife thinks I go to too many meetings. Oh my God my wifes not sure this or if I should do that.

My wife did not fix my filter on my computer enough.

Let me tell you, this is just my opinion. Any wife who is putting filters for their husband on their computers

is looking for trouble

this year. Husband, if he's not ready to get sober, will always be one step ahead of you.

No matter what I do, I have I share it.

So if I have a high IQ,

my Alec has a high attitude.

But there's one difference between me and my addicts. I too. My attic always lies,

so it's as smart as I am, but it always lies, therefore it has to win

if I don't look at my mind as an enemy camp. As we said before,

this

knee

to have someone take care of your own recovery. And by the way, this works in reverse for S and Arms.

It's not the essays responsibility to make you happy.

It's icing on the cake.

It's the essays responsibility to somehow, one day at a time, to stay sober.

So what? What happens in our marriage,

What happens is that, by the way, Nancy and I have been married going on 49 years in June and we

she says it's only been 25 years, but but

we've been married longer in sobriety now than we have been in the disease.

Now how did that happen? I would give my life, I would take a bullet for my wife, but I will not give her my program.

My program has to come before my wife.

It has to come before my wife, before my religious belief, before my professional beliefs. It has to come before my children. If I don't have recovery, I have none of those things. I have proven it. And I have also proven I cannot get sober for my wife. Regretfully, even though I die for her, I cannot get sober for her.

I could not get sober for my children.

I have an incurable, progressive, fatal disease. It will never go away. I personally believe I was born with it. It runs in my family just like alcoholism runs in my family.

And so I have to be willing to put my program 1st, and I have to be willing to let my wife know it.

And like every other thing in this program, the paradox of this program, the paradoxes are mind boggling.

It's by putting my wife second that she ends up in first.

It's mind boggling.

It's by giving it away today that I'm keeping it.

And you know my the people in my the fellowship here in Nashville, and I'm shocked. I'm asked to speak. They hear me all the time. I say the same thing over and over again.

Get over and over. They could say what I'm going to say before I open my mouth

and then I don't shut up. It's like a marathon.

It doesn't matter. They raise their hands, they stand on their head, but nothing

but they don't realize how sick I am and that I can only well, no, they do realize how sick I am. I get that back, they tell me all the time,

but it's only by giving it away do I have a chance to keep it

one day at a time.

So let me say next few minutes and then have Nancy continue how it all began.

I, Nancy was about 17 and I was 19 and we were away. I was at the University of Alabama and they said

during Bear Bryant's time and they said

this

get out. They didn't say it that way. They said this Jewish gal

is coming up from Miami Beach and she's shorter like you are. She is petite.

She's petite and you're perfect for each other.

This is a match make made in heaven.

And then we met

and we hated each other.

It could not have gone worse

and we just she went her way, I went my way and a few weeks later we met at this party, the fraternity and sorority party. Back then everything was segregated and the gals and the guys were from the same religions and all things. It was all computerized app without computers and

we we meet again

and two things changed my life from that.

One was for some reason we danced together and it was like we had the same dance instructor. And the

second thing was she had the cutest little butt I had ever seen.

Now these are very important issues to start your life with.

And so we met again and danced to Winner and Whatever. And a few weeks later I said, I'm going to give you my pen,

but this means we're going to get married.

OK? That's about how it was.

Not a whole lot of romance there,

but a whole load of

in my tradition, we call it for sure it was meant. We were meant.

The only problem was her parents didn't think we were measured.

She came from a very refined family and my family was not a refined family.

And I always told to marry a rich gal because we were not rich at all to say the least. And she was told to find a rich boy

and that's not what happened.

And so they bring me home, she brings me home and they dislike me on first sight. And they had to start buying clothes for me and doing they didn't like how I spoke. It was a perfect way to begin.

And then they met my family.

They were just higher class people than my family was.

And

nothing should have worked.

No way this marriage could have worked. They wouldn't let us get married. I had to wait till she was 19 and I was 21. I had no future, no money, no nothing. And this kid, 19, comes to them and says, oh, I've got to marry your daughter. I have no job, but I'm going to become a doctor someday.

Had no money. And I still, you know, junior in college. And they just thought I was crazy and she was crazy. And you know, they were right.

Somehow we got married

and we were very young,

and then the children began.

We go to Florida every year to visit her parents for about 5 to six years. They never saw her not pregnant.

Nancy would get as large around as she was tall. We went to measured her

8-9 pound babies. She looked like a basketball with eyes,

Nancy said. I sold her line. I got to looking for you

now. We after the first two we tried all these type of birth control

but nothing worked. We couldn't understand it. Well now years later I understand it. All these coils and all these birth control things were based on normal sex lives.

They did not know I was sexually abusing my wife.

They did not know I was giving her cystitis.

They did not know that you couldn't walk in the house without my attacking her.

They did not know that she was not allowed to be ill or have a headache or not feel right or be tired.

They did not know that if she were all dressed and she looked good to me walk and we were walking out the door. She ended up having to get undressed

because I am a sex addict who sexually abused my wife for years and years and years.

Hey, do you hear this kind of stuff often?

By the way, I make this all off this I call along.

They they had Nancy speak after me that they said, Harvey, we can't believe you anyway, so she'll keep keep you straight.

Now I wish my sexual addiction only dealt with that,

even though it's a awful thing.

But it had also included compulsive sex with self, which she certainly didn't know about, and it extended into promiscuity that included gay scraping me.

By the way, I've never told Nancy my story.

People can't believe it.

She's never heard in 25 years my story,

and she'll talk a little about that, too. You know, people come to us. Oh, should I do this? Full disclosure? Should I do that? Full disclosure? When do I do this? I don't know. We've never done it.

She lived it.

My amends to her is not to keep talking about it

and I give a different talk with a mixed group. When Nancys here,

just ask the guys and look. When Nancy's not here, my story sounds a little different.

And most of you, many of you, have heard the story time and again, especially in Nashville, that when God wants your wife to know, He will tell her.

And in our case,

after two years of sobriety in LA, this was in about 19858686, Patrick Carnes, which we did in who we didn't know is writing a book, came to LA conference and after the conference did interviews with people who at that time the greatest amount of supply that it was two years, two to three years. And he came and interviewed us

and a few years later,

I'm professional man in this community. And I took my nursing staff and Nancy and everyone I said, Gee, Patrick Carnes is coming. He's coming to Nashville. We all need to see his this his program. It's a 2 day workshop. And so Nancy and I and all my staff went and he said, and today

I'm going to present the most perfect case of sexual addiction you could imagine. I said, oh, that's interesting.

And he said

this man's mother was a sex addict, said Nancy. There's another guy, there's a mother

and then he said

and his brother

died a semi violent death because of this disease who happened to be a rabbi. Nancy, there's another Jew in the program. I can't believe it.

And then

he talked about my profession, said can't believe this is Nancy, this is uncanny. And then he told my whole story and I and everyone else, and Nancy knew who this person was. And people came up to me throughout the conference saying we are so upset for

and I went to my 5:00 meeting that day

in a state of shock,

started to laugh. I said God has a heck of a sense of humor.

When he wants Nancy to know my story, He sure tells it to her. Doesn't matter if there are 200 other people there. He let her know my story.

I want to tell you some things Nancy doesn't do.

In all these 25 years,

she has never, ever

once brought up my past.

What?

Never once.

Now you guys don't conceptualize it A lot of times this I didn't for a long time. We are married to Saints.

We would never put up with our wives what they have put up with us.

Or in SA9 if you happen to be a husband.

New Essenons are Saints.

Nancy does not bring it up, Nancy. I do not share anything with Nancy about it,

but as I was telling to someone, how do I need to share with Nancy when I'm telling her every day how sick I am? My relationship is not based on trying to prove to her I'm well.

Anyone living with me for any length of time knows I'm totally insane.

I got so obsessed over the ice that I came here a day before. We live right here in Nashville.

Money isn't flowing that much. We spent an extra night in the hotel,

and that's one of my minor incentive.

I had to listen to her complain about her aches and pains like I complain about my aches and pains. I go crazy,

crazy up

now. The good news is, she's learned not to listen to me at all.

I need to start cutting this down. What time do we start from here

as some people know what these conferences we do?

How many minutes is that in?

Yes,

OK, that's another topic. Maybe she'll talk about sex and marriage. That's one of these, by the way, that's a taboo subject in this program.

We make believe people don't have sex and matter.

It's not loyal to your wife.

We have a lot of those. Don't talk about that in the program. Well, guess what we talk about

because maybe Nancy will talk about that. If not, if some other of the meeting, I'm going to turn this over to to Nancy. I just want to end by saying for my part that

I said it to a Group A few hours ago that my sponsor would always say to me, Harvey, do you think God loved you when you were doing all those low life ugly things he used to do from your disease? And I finally say, yeah, I guess so. And he then say well if he loved you then he must be hog ass wild about you now.