Steps 2 and 3 at the Men Among Men group's conference in Reykjavik, Iceland

Okey dokey. Okey Dokey

and they all all the sinners coming back in

welcome. My name is Chris Raymer, very grateful. Recovered alcoholic

and I'm delighted to be here. I apologize I got these sniffles from someplace and so I excuse me on that one. I'll turn it to be too distracting with that.

I,

I spent years, you know, we talked about last night when I shared my story around the fellowship. I'd say I was an Alcoholic Anonymous, you know, but I've really never been an Alcoholics Anonymous for seven years. I mean, I'm going to meetings. And if the qualification to be a member of Alcoholics Anonymous is that you attend some meetings, then I suppose I was in a, a but, but I didn't they, as they pointed out after that suicide attempt, I was never really in all three sides of the program, 3 legacies. I was, I was,

I came and I and I never worked any steps and I never did any service work. I just

meeting makers make it God damn it. You told me that was the way and I went and I did that, but I couldn't stay sober. And so in

87 after that suicide attempt, these guys snagged me and they got me.

They got my attention that night and they talked about the difference between the fellowship and the program And and again, there's so many people out there. Larry alluded to it and I'm sure he will again tonight. It still takes my breath away. How many people want to fight the program? You with us. They just do. I believe there's people in a a that can stay sober without working the program. Absolutely. You know, it's just,

but on page 34 in our book, it says if you could stay sober on a non spiritual basis. You're not one of us. I mean, the literature, if you talk about it, gets a pretty clear picture about what this is about. I hear people come to the hospital I work in, in Texas and, and, and this, this the constant conversation around it. You know, people come in and they, they come out of detox. They look at the 12 steps and the traditions on the wall. They go, Oh shit, you know, it's another 12 step program. You know, they thought for this amount of money that we, that we'd be doing, you know, biofeedback or something. But

you know, we, we do the 12 steps because we know it works. But when they finally see that that's what we're doing, they're pissed. You know, they're, they're mad they're getting the best detox money can buy. They're going to get some good instructions, but they're angry. They said they quote UN quote, I've tried that. It doesn't work. And they've got the same experience that I had for so many years. What's the truth is I hadn't tried anything.

I've been coming to meetings, but that was it. And so again, the Catholic can stay sober because

just coming to meetings, I don't have a bone to pick with that person. I have a bone to pick with that person if they want to represent that, that's the program that all you have to do is come to meetings to stay sober. I mean, we shortchange ourselves. I got to tell you guys, I want to talk about a couple of little things here, sitting here in the last, you know, I, I got to speak last night and get to get the hook back up with some of you guys that I met in 2003 when I was here before and get to hear some of y'all's stories. And you know, it's like one after another. You're telling me the miracles

of work in the steps and, and, and your sobriety and, and, and how God's working through you. And it's like it just, it makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck to see the. And yet you go into a meeting and try to talk about that and you'll get these very uncomfortable looks and this little shifty glaze, you know, everybody starts to get on. You know, we don't want to talk too much about the God thing. Well, the book says that the God thing is what's going to keep us alive. You know, that's going to allow us to recover, but we don't want to talk too much about it. And we've got to somehow

stop being so apologetic about what we're selling here. What? What are we selling here?

I mean selling. I use, for lack of a better word, What do? What are we presenting here,

you know, is Alcoholics Anonymous? The book says in the traditions that we have one primary purpose. We read it when we read the traditions. What is the primary purpose

carry this message? What's this message?

Absolutely. What's the message? It's the solution. The message is the 12 steps and the subsequent spiritual experience. Guys, I said it last night. I'm going to say it again. I'm going to start talking about this 12 step business. Guys, the 12 steps don't keep me sober. This is not some kind of a stupid twist like like self help program. This is a spiritual program of action. I work the steps, I get spiritually connected, the guaranteed spiritual experience. You and me, you follow the instructions and you make the amends and you start praying and meditating like we're supposed to, even when you don't want to

follow. And then you do this 12 step by giving back to somebody else for free and for fun. And I guarantee you the miracle takes place. I work at a treatment center. People said, well, no wonder your state's over 22 years. You work in a treatment center, buddy. I've watched hundreds of people that work in that treatment center relapse it. It's, it's just because you're working around this doesn't guarantee that you're going to stay sober. You got to actually do it yourself. Makes sense. That's the kicker. You can read it and talk about it, but until you actually do it, it ain't going to happen.

Bill Wilson talks about the cornerstone being the second step. He talks about the keystone of the arts that we're going to walk through is the third step. So what's the foundation stone? The basis that this whole thing is is based on?

I've asked this and dozens of conferences. Everybody always comes up with the same answer. Its first step. First step is the foundation stone. Not what my book says. My book says that working with others is the foundation stone. So if this is the foundation stone of my sobriety, why is it that I want you to wait five years to start doing it?

You're with me. This is the pisser. We lose Alcoholics and addicts and all of our 12 step fellowships. We lose them in two spots. We lose them one after the third step prayer. OK, now go work on your 4th step. And then we go away. And then, then they just go and look at a notebook for six or seven months. They never do any writing, but they're looking, you know, I got to get on that thing and and that they never do the actual work and we lose them there. They relapse you with me. I relapsed around the four step. I relapsed around the four step. No, you relapsed because you were sitting on your ass

thinking about the 4th step. You didn't people. They baked this picture that I was writing the four step and I was so I was so torn up. I relapsed. Not not my experience. You know, we just waited long enough for untreated alcoholism to return and we got loaded you with us other places is after after we do six and seven, you know, and before we make the amends. That's that's the place that we get the the dark spot. Chris, are you working with other Alcoholics? No, I'm I'm not finished with my men's yet.

Well you know, I mean I'm 22 years sober guys and I got to tell you there's a couple of men's that are still dragging not because I don't want to. I can't find the bastards. The minute I do I'm going to make these amends you with me. I've got 2 old business cards up there right with all of my men stuff about these through these two or three people and I'll make those amends when I get I I just cannot still find them. They may be dead, but y'all understand what I'm saying. I can't you don't wait till all of your amends to start working with others. I want to read you something real quick

again. I wish that our, our, our pages lined up a little bit,

It says in there's a chapter in the back called The Family Afterward. I, I skipped it for years because I didn't have a family at the time and I didn't think it was really that important.

Just like I skipped we agnostics because I really wasn't an agnostic in chapter the wives because I didn't have a wife. And you know what I'm saying chapter to the employer because I'm not an employer. Oh my gosh, I was just trying to skirt everything I can skirt. But family after on the bottom of our page on this, it says it says even if he displays a certain amount of neglected irresponsibility towards the family, it is well to let him go as far as he likes and helping other Alcoholics during those first days of convalescence. This will do more to ensure his sobriety than anything else.

Did you all get it? In those first days of convalescence? Letting somebody work with another drunk, helping out where he can, will do more to help this cat stay sober than anything else. What do we do in the States? Little guy comes in and he's all fried pie and maybe he's been smoking some cracker, drinking some alcohol, whatever. Anyway, he comes in is obviously beat the hell. You with us? Oh, we got a newcomer here. You with us? Well, you just sit there, 90 meetings in 90 days and you're going to be OK. Welcome.

Glad you're here. And then we just let him sit there, You with us

after the meeting, You know, we'll see you tomorrow at the meeting. And he comes back to the meeting and he's still all banged up, you know, with me. But he's a day sober. Welcome. Keep coming back. Why don't we just say go away? Because we don't really have time to mess with you. You're making our group uncomfortable because we don't have time to. Because we're going to let him sit there in his juices until he goes crazy and drinks. You follow, then the little guy come back two weeks later,

the little best. We knew he was going to relapse. He just didn't want it bad enough.

Wow. I'm going to tell you something guys, the cats that I end up sponsoring, the guys that we get at our group, they come in there and they sit there and I'm going to do 2 things. I'm going to watch the guys that I sponsor. I got about 11 guys in my group that I sponsor and I'm watching them like Hawks because it's just a deal of pride with me. You know, it's like I'm not, I'm not going to take on anymore. I got all enough in my stable to choke a horse, but I want one of my guys to get this guy and I'm watching. I'm sponsoring you and you're over here playing grab ass with a, you know, little you know, and a little newcomer comes in and sits down and you stand. Meetings half over.

Still haven't noticed that there's a new guy in my meeting. You with me after the meeting. I'm not going to go get the newcomer. I'm going to come get you.

You can do both. Play grab ass and get the newcomer. I don't

guys I sponsor, man. Sometimes they don't stay sober, but they all get laid. I'm just going to tell you point blank from the podium,

just kidding. They're all good guys, but you can do both. This is the same kind of stuff that we do from the from in in the sponsorship deals.

Well, my sponsor said I couldn't date anybody for a year.

I'm going to get right back with you on that one. I'm looking in here and see where it says that.

It doesn't say that. Come on guys, this idea that I'm going to drink over a girl is ludicrous, is stupid and it's a cop out and it's a lie.

You're drinking because you didn't finish work in the 12 steps, you're drinking because you weren't working with others and you placed her before God which why are you going to blame the girl? Y'all understand that? It's like I'm going to cut myself off and be miserable and just sacrifice for a year so that I this is nuts. Why can't you do both? I've said it 1000 times date if you want to, but make God number one do the work. I'm going to read you something real quick up in the front. Bill Wilson

when he was getting 12 step by a little guy named Abby.

Y'all know the story, right? Amy can't stay sober. And little guy named Roland Hazard snagged him and took him to the mission and had him serving food over there. And they got him connected to God and, and he's doing pretty good. And he, he went, he goes and finds Bill Wilson because he's going to go try to help his friend. At the bottom of page 14 in our book, it talks about Bill's talking about Evie. And he said, my friend Abby had emphasized the absolute necessity in demonstrating these principles in all my affairs, particularly was it imperative to work with others as he'd worked with me.

Faith without works was dead, he said, in how appallingly true for the alcoholic. For if the alcoholic fails to perfect it, enlarge his spiritual life through work and self sacrifice for others, he could not survive the certain trials and low spots ahead. Did you get it?

I'm fixing to piss some of you off. Pay attention now.

Maybe I misread this,

for if the alcoholic fails to ask God to keep him sober in the morning and thank him at night, he couldn't possibly survive the certain trials and low spots ahead. Did it say that? It sure didn't.

Not knocking that. That's just not what the book says. The book says unless you work with others. That's how we grow spiritually. If selfish and self centeredness is the root of my problem and I got to get out of my head, how am I going to do it?

I feel like I'm a worthless piece of crap. I had this spiritual malady that tells me I'm I'm. I'm suffering from a low self esteem. You with me. I said I was in therapy for 10 years. Guys. Standing in front of mirrors. I'm a beautiful child of God.

Oh, y'all done the same thing? Oh my gosh, who knew in Iceland that they would do that? Oh my God, I'm a good boy and everybody loves me and I'm going to blow these bliss. It's like it's called blowing smoke and that's what it is. I got to tell you

in 1987 after I got back at Alcoholics Anonymous and these are the same guys that that snagged me and had me working on a four step and it's on a Sunday. I'll never forget. Friday night I tried to commit. Thursday night, I tried to commit suicide. Friday I come back to a a you with me. They qualified me. Saturday morning we did a third step prayer. I start working on a four step and these guys are talking to me about the program and the fellowship and they're playing catch up with a guy that's been around the periphery for seven years.

Sunday night, the guy that was supposed to be in the front of the our little meeting room that had an outside little phone room. It's back when we used to have pay phones

when there's no, I mean, the guy that had a cell phone had a satchel. That's how long ago that was. You know, you carry, look, I'm portable. No, you're dragging this guy to his cell phone around him.

Y'all know the deal, but

there's a payphone in the front. That's what we, the guy was supposed to be answering. It didn't show up. And so the guy said, Chris sit out here with us and help us answer the phone. And I want to go to the 6:00 meet because there's a girl back there I want to talk to and, and, and I said no, no, no, no. You know, I'm kind of detoxing kind of still I think I need to go into the meeting. He says no, we think you shouldn't. We think you should come out here and help us answer the phone. You've been a taker all your life.

When are you going to start giving back?

Don't you Remember Me, though? I'm the most important person here. You know, I'm the newcomer and like I'm supposed to,

and I said it last night, guys, these guys loved me enough. They weren't trying to be rough with me or tough or or just you know, like a bully or they were. They loved me enough to tell me the truth. Chris, you will be blessed by doing this. Be of service. You'll stay sober, continue to be the taker, selfish little whiny piss Ant victim that you are now and you will never stay sober. It was almost exact words. You know what I'm saying? He wasn't exactly being real delicate. You know we love you. Just he was painting

picture of who I was and sometimes it hurt. Anyway, I said, OK,

anyway, the phone rings and I answer it and it turns out that it's a girl that I know. I used to drink with her husband and he's like a small world. And she's calling. She says, Chris, is that you? And I said so and so is that you? And Oh my, I'll. You still got those red shoes? And yes, OK, we have a look up. She said, what do you? Yeah, she was gorgeous. And she said, she said, what are you doing down there? And I said, you know, I'm getting sober, getting sober,

you know, cuz like I'm day three, I'm,

I'm painting this picture that I'm Bill Wilson, second in command, you know, but I'm, I'm three days sober. It didn't, it didn't make any difference. And she said, why? I cannot believe you're there. She says I need to go to Alalon 'cause I was so and so I ain't ever going to get sober. And I think I finally need to go. I said, listen, I'm not, I'll stand out in front, you know what I look like. And I'll, and, and I'll flag you in you. I'll show you where this place is. Just drive down Main Street. And sure enough, she drove down Main Street, showed her where to park, took her back to the island. Ladies, you with me? No big book, no preaching, no nothing. You know, just I just

took her to Al Anon, walked back out of the room, walked back up in the front and the guys look at like that.

Yeah, I handled that one. I was all right

and guys we laughing about it. Y'all heard me talk about it says some of these, but they created a monster in that group. You for the next six months. You couldn't go near that telephone. You know phone and ring and some little guy go to it. Oh man, listen, but this is really important. You could kill somebody answering this phone. You know, you really got to kind of know what you're doing to answer this phone. And I'm just like, shit,

guys, but I'm telling you something. I answer the phone one time and what I do is all of a sudden I go to my table and I'm sitting a little, little taller in the table. I feel like I'm a part of Alcoholics Anonymous. It's just exactly what they were saying earlier. I didn't see any big bright flashes after I did a four step and a fifth step with a sponsor, but I felt like I was a part of something for the first time ever. Seven years in Alcoholics Anonymous and these people won't let me do anything.

Shit, two weeks later, I've had a spiritual experience as a result of work in the steps.

And about three months later I got a little guy that I'm sponsoring and another little guy that I'm sponsoring. You with me. And listen, guys, I mean, I'm in so far over my head it's not even funny. And that's what you all need to understand. Nobody's going to do this. Perfect. How do you learn how to sponsor?

Sponsor. Absolutely, brother. How do you learn how to have sex? Read a book

I just had. I'd read the book and then when I finally had sex, I said, buddy, they left out a lot of stuff in this book. I mean,

and that's what that's then that's wasn't intended. Bill Wilson and Doctor Bob didn't have a year to sit around or five years to wait. They just knew that they needed to get in the trench. That's why our success rates back in the day were so much better than they are now. Everybody wants to give me an excuse why they can't sponsor people, why they can't work with others. I'm not saying in the first few months you can lead a big book study or whatever, but if you if you can teach this, you can get well. And that's just the nature of the beast. If you can teach it, you can get well. If you're just sitting in meetings, you're going to gradually,

I'm so uncomfortable, you can't stand it. Doctor Bob sponsored over 5000 people. Guys, I've heard people in a a question that nobody could sponsor 5000 people. The way that we talk about sponsorship today in our meetings. No, nobody could. You guys are taking these people on to raise my job. My primary purpose is not to take these people on the race.

It's heresy to say it's the truth. My job is to get you through the 12 steps, get you spiritually connected, allow you to have your own spiritual experience, pat you on the ass, hold you accountable and point you towards the next newcomer. That's my job.

We've set ourselves up in Alcoholics Anonymous. It's some sort of a cult where all we do is sit around and tell you what to do.

Yeah, in that the truth. Listen, guys, we need to stop that. I need to stop trying to take responsibility for your life.

Got him got people in this in these rooms right now that are so wore out because every time you turn around and got another sponsee call it. Should I read the where the red one or the blue one?

It's like what? Who gives a rat's ass? Where would you want?

Makes sense. We need to get spiritually connected. Bill Wilson and Doctor Bob understood that. Bill. Doctor Bob 5000 drunks estimated higher than that in his 15 years. Guys, that's better than one a day.

You do the math. He wasn't sponsoring them like we sponsor. We're going to sit down and you're going to call me every day and we're going to talk about horseshit rubbish. We're going to show you how to work the 12 steps. Guys, I'm going to give you a quick rundown. What we do. The guy sits down and we talk to him. I qualify him. Just like we talked about earlier. I'm going to ask him. I'm going to qualify them. Are you really one of us or not? You with me? Physical craving, mental obsession. After that, we're going to say this. We're going to talk about this God thing. You got a problem with God.

Chapter to the agnostics is the first line there. Says that more than he talks about it says half of us had a problem with God. That means the other half didn't you with us. But every single one we sit down, we've got the same regime. I want you to sit down and for the next few months I want you to make a list of what you want God to be.

Why?

I'm sorry, I know some of you have done it. Do it. It's not going to hurt. But but can you hurry you with us? Because while you're doing this little assignment, I want you to give me an assignment. People are dying and you're not staying sober. What we want to do is get this job finished. Make sense. End result is the spiritual experience. The guy didn't have any problem with God. Hilly. Like, good heavens, I'm there. It's just exactly like Larry talked about third step. We get on our knees and do a third step.

Light in the third step says we.

It says that God's going to remove my difficulty so victory over them can bear witness. You remember that line? What does that tell us to do?

It it tells. It obligates us to go back into meetings and share how God has changed our lives.

That's why when you're going back into the meeting, talking about the fact that your car don't start is not doing what the third step prayer told you to do. You with us? Where's the damn gratitude? I know you got a car problem. Let's talk about it after the meeting. During the meeting, let's pull some, pull them with a vision talk some good stuff. We get up off our knees after doing a third step prayer. I got my date planner open. I'm going to give him instructions on how to start a four step and he's got one week to finish the 5th step. One effing week

set at seven days.

At seven days, we're going to do a fifth step. He's not ready. Then he's going to go. We're going to have a talk. You know what the talk looks like?

The talk is this because I'm not firing anybody, but I'm going to suggest that you might want to find somebody that's got more time to mess with you than me. Because if I'm going to give you a piece of my life, we're going to go at a pretty good clip because I want to see the results. And when you dying out there, I don't want to be caught up in the responsibility of this Makes sense. My job is to make sure that you get this information. Again, people, it's not a race that's too fast. Come on, guys. It can vary a little bit. If the guy's detoxing hard, I'll give him a couple extra days. You know what I'm saying? I'm not, I'm not evil

for heaven sakes. Give him a little time. I'm down with that. Some people have reading disorders. Some some people have some mental things going on that we kind of got to sort through a little bit. But I'm going to speed this up as much as possible, not out of impatience, but as a tipping, ticking time bomb. This guy is days, hours away, maybe from a drink. So we got to snag them. We do a fist step. I'm sorry, I'm not going to take 8 hours to do a fifth step. This is an inventory.

God, it's quick. We're not going to sit here. Therapy. We did that for years in therapy.

You want to sit and talk about this and live in it, relive it, go find the professional to do that with. I'm here to help you find your truth in the fourth column, you with me. I'm not going to deal with any of this more longer than any of the other. Next, next, next. You with us. 2 hours, 3 hours at the most and we're done. We get on a knees after an hour. We do six and seven. You with us. I got the eight step list already from the deal. Like Larry talked about, boom. We're going to go start making amends. While we're doing that, we're doing the disciplines of 1011 and 12.

I'm watching these guys like a hawk guys. I want them to get in there and see what the good stuff is about. Some of your going, I see it on your face. That's too fast.

Sorry. It's not. It's not. Let me tell you one of the things that we see United States,

some of y'all heard me read this. In fact I think I wrote it, read it when I was in Iceland before. But anytime I do sponsorship stuff, 12 step stuff, we talk about this. Inner groups ask where of all the volunteers gone.

This is a classic example of what we're faced with out there.

The most frustrating thing about answering Intergroup's phone, says Bob. Our manager of the Intergroup Association in New York City is finding an A a member willing to take a 12 step call for some sick alcoholic who has phoned us for help. Sometimes it takes us up to 20 calls to identify just one willing volunteer.

Wow, Can you imagine this?

It's my job. I got sober so I could help you. I stay sober because I help you. But the intergroup's going to have to call 20 recovering Alcoholics before they can find one guy willing to go help somebody.

Some of the answers that some of the responses we hear when we find a live member actually does answer the phone. What's a 12 step call?

How did you get my phone number? Do you mean you actually want me to talk to someone who's still drinking?

Yeah. This is the saddest response came from a member who exclaimed no, I can't do it. I'm busy all day. Today's my sobriety anniversary.

Oh my God,

that that boy is going to die. You know that. I mean, that's,

Oh my God, it's got to be the most frustrating thing I've ever seen in my entire life. I mean, what are we trying to accomplish here? I sat down with these guys when I get them and we're working them through the 12 steps and I talked to him about Alcoholics Anonymous. I talked to him about the history and I give him some literature to read. You with us? I'm not going to give him the 12:00 and 12:00 right off the bat. I don't want to confuse him. There's some stuff in here that contradicts something in here. I just, I want to give him a straight scoop. Let's learn the basics first and then you can read anything else you want. I don't care if it's conference approved or not, if it's recovery,

I'm all for it. Makes sense. This is the, it's the bomb. I'm sitting down with these guys and I'm talking to him about what a A is and what a A isn't about the necessity to work with others. They don't want to work with others. They got to go find somebody else to play with. Somebody asked a question earlier, what happens if you have somebody you're sponsoring and they don't want to do the work?

It's a know brainer, isn't it? Big Book says quite clearly, we don't W time with those people. Have a nice life. Let's go get a hamburger. Make sense? But I'm not going to talk to you about the work if you're not willing to do this. Make sense? Because what you're going to end up doing a bunch of y'all in this room? I think you've seen this before. How many of you remember, let's say of all the people that you sponsor, you end up spending most of your time with one or two people. Usually it's one person. Usually it's one you just wish would go disappear off a Cliff someplace.

90% of your time spent on one person. This is this is nuts. Nobody should be that labor intensive you follow. What are we doing when we allow it, folks? What are we doing? We're allowing dependence on us instead of dependence on God. If you have to come to me with every question, every problem, you're welcome to do it in early sobriety, but if six months out you're still dependent on me, I'm not doing what I'm supposed to be doing

cuz I'm supposed to be getting you connected to this power call God, you follow. Some of you haven't grasped got your mind around the fact that the whole purpose of this is so that we can get spiritually connected. What do you think? God's gonna just talk to us.

Probably not you, but yes,

you know what I'm saying. Yeah, of course. It's just exactly what Larry to eloquently talked about earlier, guys. But this idea, when it starts to happen, you'll go oh shit. It's like trying to explain it a spiritual experience to somebody that's never had one. You with me, you can talk into your hair falls out. You're not going to get very far with it, you with us until it happens. Then you don't. Then you can't explain it. Then all you got to do is look,

you know, it's like

words can't describe that. It's, it's at a different level at that. And I want everybody to have that.

Old timers all over the world are killing people because they're letting them go too slow. There are other fellowships that talk about this. You know, over in Canada, they're killing people with this idea that after a year, we'll start the steps, one step a month until they're done inside. So you're telling me that I'm guaranteed a spiritual experience in two years?

Rock on. How cool is that? That's a vision that we'll all jump up and down about, you know, come.

No guys, nobody. I've never seen anybody come into the rooms and look at the 12 steps on the wall. And so, you know, those 12 steps, that shit looks like it at work. You know, nobody does that

because nobody does that. They look at this and go, yeah, right.

But the miracle the gravy is to do that is to actually work the steps. I sit down with these little newcomers and I'm teaching them about the the the History of Alcoholics Anonymous event. And we're meeting every week, and I'm spending some time talking to him, pointing out the traditions. I'm getting them to read the literature. It's just like what Sam said,

people, they sit down and they want you to read the literature. A lot of the guys I work with, buddies, they just can't. They're fried pies. That's why I got to sit down and kind of cherry pick them first. Get them. It's like triage. I got to get the bleeding stopped 1st and then we can go back and read and study until the cows come home. You with us? 22 years sober.

I'm still studying the literature.

I think I know it better today than I did 22 years ago. But if you'll follow what I'm saying, he's got to be quick. Let's get these guys connected. I read something to you,

one of the biggest things we do in AAA and the groups where I gets over in my sponsorship lineage and we don't see it a lot. I know some of y'all do it here. It's called a a etiquette. You all know that word A, a etiquette. What's proper in a A and what's not proper in AAI can get you through the 12 steps and allow you to have a spiritual experience. But what's acceptable and what's not you with us, we teach them how to come to meetings. You guys have been so prompt. I got to tell you, you come to meeting on time, you leave, you go smoke, you're right back in you with us. We do these workshops sometimes and it's just like, it's like

you're talking and everybody's that busy and walking around and having a good time and it's like it's, it's not that if you're not interested you can go away. It's that it's distracting as hell as the people that are interested you follow. This is evidence of good upbringing, good sponsorship. Get your coffee before the meeting. Come sit down. God damn. Sitting in a meeting the other night before we got on the plane and this little guy got up four times in an hour. You with me? The topic is the big book. We're reading out of the big book. We're studying it four times. This guy gets up

every time he does he's.

You'll follow if you don't want to be here, you don't have to be here, but you're going to be considered to the other people. Pay attention to what you're wearing. Pay attention. Are you, are you, are you, are you being distracting to other people in the process? This is what we're teaching in sponsorship business. That's what it's about. All I'm there to do is teach them, get them spiritually connected. After that, we're going to hold them accountable. You with me. I've got, I got this little cat work through the steps and he's working with others. I'm going to go find me a new one.

That's how that's how you do it. You don't take them on to raise. I'm here always if you want to call me anytime. That's why I give out business cards, guys. I'm not hustling business for this place.

This got my all of my numbers on it. If you ever need me, you can contact me till the day you die. I got your back. Hers too.

His to whatever it is. I don't know.

I don't know these little kids.

I was in a meeting not long ago and

going to wind this down. I got to

it's a bookmark. I thought somebody did a nice job with this. This was a this was a letter written soon before this guy committed suicide and his mom and dad gone to meetings with his father and his mom had handed me this they they passed these out at at the memorial service. Thought it was a nice gesture you with us. But there was something very telling in this, in this letter,

in this, in this little, little thing, he wrote.

This was in a sister fellowship

he would belong to at the end it said. I hope to one that is a chronic relapse or just like me, I hope to one day make you all proud that you have me in your lives. Maybe someday down the line I can freely give to others which has been given to me.

Did you get it?

Maybe someday, when it's convenient

down the line,

I can pull my head out of my selfish ass and be of service to my fellow human beings.

Maybe

someday

down the line,

y'all understand this. OK, what's the last thing you want to do when you feel lousy guys is go work with somebody else? But that's when you should do it. And this is where our fellowships, all of us have gotten so far off the hook in Alcoholics Anonymous in Texas. I don't know. I know it's the same in lots of countries. Places in the states where I talk, they have these, these ironclad rules. You can't sponsor anybody until you've been sober two years. You follow. But unless you get active with this, you're not going to stay sober.

I'm not. It's working with others. There's lots of things. I can assure you, the guy that's been busting his ass all day long making coffee today, he's not going to drink today.

I can assure you that you with us, it's not all about just sitting down and sponsoring somebody. Sometimes it's just being of service to somebody else. Can you get out of your selfish and self-centered head long enough to realize that there's somebody else sitting next to you that's in a worse spot that you're in? Make sense, guys. Then you just reach out and you love on them a little bit and you try to see what you can be of service. And it's by giving that we get to receive that circle and triangle that circle around it. That's exactly what it's talking about, the wholeness. It's the fellowship, guys.

We're all going to reach down. I don't get guidance straight from God. I get it through you people.

Oh my gosh, that's what we were talking about last night. That's the thing that holds us together is this one alcoholic working with another alcoholic education is great, folks. We're seeing the treatment center industry in the United States right now. We have a lot of they've changed the regulations and the rules to get a license. Used to be one of your little garden riding your little fried pot. Alcoholics could come in there and and it just you could become a counselor because you they would grandfather you in because you had

what experience

and boy, no shit in this room y'all would all make great counselors, most of you. But what happens now is what we're ended up doing is because they've raised the educational level to do this because we were therapists Now then what we're getting up doing is we're cutting a lot of people out of that industry. So what we have is a lot of people with master level book learning that are not Alcoholics and addicts and don't have a clue what this is really all about. You follow

alcoholism is a disease in the next sentence why are you drinking?

Y'all understand that it's like

because it's a disease

wrong answer. You know, let's start talking about all the little issues again. It's like, Oh my gosh, This is why we're beating our head against the wall. One of the things we're seeing because of piss poor sponsorship. I'm going to line this down. One of the things that we're starting to see is a lot of people the hospital. I've been at 17 years and, and we had a lot of

we used to see one or two old timers come back in and we gather around them, you know, and like what what happened, you know, tell us, you know, and I bet you I've got a 1/4 of the hospital where I work now is old timers, people that had had 7 seven years or more. I did some stats a couple of weeks ago and we had we had 15 people in that hospital that had seven years or more and lost it. You follow these are cats. Some of these guys had 10 years, 15 years. They went to treatment, they got sober. They were active in the program up to a point. You with us, and then they