Chris R. from Ingram, TX spekaing about step 1 at the Men Among Men group's conference in Reykjavik, Iceland

I'm assuming that was me.

Good morning. My name is Chris Reimer. Very grateful. Recovered alcoholic

and I am grateful and I am recovered. We can talk about that later.

You can hear it now. You can never recover.

Yes, yes, you can. Anyway, I, I'm honored to be back here this morning. We're going to let me tell you how we're going to do this a little bit today and and we're kind of flexible here. So we're watching the clock closer than y'all are you remember that. So this is not going to get long winded. We're going to we're going to kind of take a run through the steps and we're going to have some time this afternoon to ask some questions. And we want to leave a specific pretty good chunk of time to talk about the 12 step stuff about working with others because we get more questions about that than we

get with anything else follow. So that's want to spend some time doing that and we're going to kind of swap out a little bit so you don't get tired of listening to me and get somebody else up here that really knows what they're doing. And so

Anna

and anytime I'm speaking from the podium again, y'all remember, some of y'all were here last night. You remember kind of my story a bit. I, I nearly died getting to Alcoholics Anonymous. You'll follow. I mean, I just, I put it off for so long. I watched my father come into a A and that's also and he stayed sober for a period of time and and I knew that that that there was a solution here.

And he eventually said I'd teach up that. And

he he never went back. And

but I knew that there was something there. And, and so when I got ready to do this, I, I went to Alcoholics Anonymous. But, but once I got here, again, the same story. I nearly died sitting in these rooms. And some of you guys have just have never had that experience because you landed in a room where they talked solution from day one. But that was not my experience. And I and I want to talk a little bit about that. And it's maybe that you can see

some of the some of the problems we face worldwide

around this business of recovery.

Bill Wilson understood that there was a solution to this problem and it was the spiritual experience. But in order

in order for the alcoholic or the drug addict and the other fellowships to to actually do this work, you need to believe you need to. And I need to make sure that y'all all kind of on the same page with me before I go on with this. If

if I'm not convinced I'm dying of a fatal illness,

that I'm truly powerless, then about the time these steps get a little difficult,

I'll crap out. You follow. About the time somebody in a a said something that I don't like, I'll get pissed and walk away. You know, if, if I know that this is life and death for me, then I will knuckle down and do the job. You follow. We've got people all over the world. We, we call it in Texas, we call it straddling the fence. You know what that looks like? You know, you got one minute I want to stay sober so bad I can taste it and the next minute, you know, I'm not really so sure. You know, I'm, I'm in and out. I in and out. I'm constantly picking up chips and I just

I can't I can't get off dead center. Hey here's a word that some of you might know commit. You all understand that yeah. We don't want to talk about that but anyway. But in the program it's extremely important because because that's what you got to do all the way in or all the way out you'll follow yesterday and we were we're waiting for the hotel rooms to get ready to go and and and Arnor for some strange reason took a swimming. I mean, I it's just like it was a thought that would never

crossed my mind in a million years. But but we went over this one of these pool deals out here, you know, and, and it's like, you know, you, I've never done that. You got to take a little shower and you got to go through all the little deal, put your little drawers on, you know, Oh my God, it was just, it was kind of freaky. But

I just, yes, I had, it was kind of freaky. But anybody you got to open the door. You can feel that cold in there and you see the steam out there. You know it's going to be warm. They're heated pools. You follow and it's but you at a certain point, you got to commit. You got to get out of the door and go to the water, you know, and it's going to hurt me. It's going to hurt and it's going to be painful, but you got to go ahead and do it. You'll follow. I think that's a perfect analogy to this program.

I spent seven years, I spent seven years standing at the door in a a doing this,

you know what I mean? And it's it's time to go. Alright, so

let me let me a little little stats. Some of you like statistics and some of you don't, but let me tell you what happened in our country. United States is one of the main course. Alcoholics Anonymous started there in the United States. But some of y'all didn't know that, did you?

Yeah, right. It was started in 1935. We got the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous was published in 1939. It took Bill and Bob about 18 months to finally get 10 sober Alcoholics. 18 months. You with us? Damn near 2 years to get 10 Alcoholics sober. Every mistake they could make, they made. You'll follow Bill. Everything came down through Bill Wilson. This wasn't like it's a big corporation and they're in there and they're losing track of one another. This was everything was done at the kitchen

and they could see what was working and what wasn't working.

From about 19 up and from 1935 to 1971, United States worldwide, we had about 500,000 sober members of Alcoholics Anonymous. OK, it's a pretty good chunk of time there. In 1971 in the United States, there was a little piece of legislation that got jammed down. You remember President Nixon. I remember some of y'all are not old enough to remember shit, but

this is like kids, like punks. But but Nickson was one of our our more famous

or infamous presidents and but right And whether you like him or not, but right before he left office, like like, I mean on with one foot out the door, he signed in a piece of legislation in the United States called the Hughes Act and the Hughes Act, basically what it did was open the doors for anybody in the United States to open a treatment center that they wanted to you follow. We've got this big drug, drug problem, excuse me, alcohol problem in the country We're going to. We used to have

a you had to go through a bunch of rigmarole to get a license. If I wanted to open a treatment center and say New York City, I'd have to go through a licensing board and I'd have to prove that they needed it. And it was just,

it was a it was a pain in the butt in 1971 after as a result of this, what happened was the insurance companies, it was allowed the insurance companies to start paying for treatment. You with us. And what that did was open the floodgates almost overnight 1971, we had treatment centers on every damn corner in the United States. They were open. Every hospital, every hospital, even the little local regional hospitals had a had a detox center and a treatment center attached to it. And

and if it was a good thing,

except that we had so many people coming into our fellowship from 1971 to 1976, it's less than A5 year period there. We went from 500,000 to over a million like that in six years. You with us, it grew real slow. And then all of a sudden it just that members came by the by the thousands. You could sit in the meeting and all of a sudden you look around and got any newcomer and half the goddamn room would stand up because everybody was new. They were coming into

program. Here's what happened though, the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous that had been our guide and told us what to do, our instruction book. We laid it aside and basically we started this little thing called open discussion. Hell in our A, a meetings where everybody could come in. I mean, that was why we fell in love with the guys in Iceland, because we heard Arnor and these guys talking about dark tunnel meetings. I'd never heard that expression before. And how appropriate. You all know what I'm talking about. A dark, you've been in meetings like that. Were you looking there? And there's just no light coming back at you.

It's just we're going to walk in and we're going to, we're going to piss and moan for an hour, you know, and all we're going to do is talk about how messed up our lives are, you know, and, and we'll do this again tomorrow. Oh my God,

we get all excited about it. Oh my, it. It was nuts. I got to tell you how fast this thing ended. Though they repealed the Hughes Act, there was pieces of this legislation that got repealed and by about 1993 all of these thousands of treatment centers in the United States that had opened up

closed down. You follow insurance companies paid like slot machines and then all of a sudden they stopped

and now but the damage is done. Y'all understand what happened was we've got all of these people in our rooms that have never read the big book never worked a single freaking step, but they're staying sober one day at a time through self help you follow. We talked about it last night. That's the difference between a hard drinker, some guy that could just get his ass handed to him a few times and he finally says oh I need to stop and he's able to stop on his own power. But what the book said but what about the real alcoholic? What about the real little, little

thing that really needs this spiritual experience in order to recover? These are the cats that are that are going to be in trouble in our meetings. You follow because we're not going to talk about the solution. So I'll show you this. I know you can't probably see this very well and next time I'll use a different pin. But these are, this is a kind of a graphic illustration about what happened in the United States in 2008. I've got some 2009 stats. I'm going to talk about that in a second. But 2008, this is in Dallas. You know, we give out these little desire chips.

What are y'all given in Iceland you have a little like a little token if you decide you want to stay sober, OK, some places don't give them out, but in in Texas, we're chip chip sons of bitches. But we will give you a chip just for doing just for walking in the door. So

if you walk in and say you have a desire to stay sober, we sold in Dallas, TX, the inner groups who sell the chips there. We sold 12,286 desire chips in 2008. You follow nearly 13,000 chips. If you stays over 30 days, we're going to give you a little red chip. Looks just like it. You'll follow Y'all been around one month. You got to it. It's it's 3000,

92. You see a slight drop off here. Oh Oh my God,

all these cats have screwed up their courage to come into the rooms. Now all of a sudden we've got such a small amount. If you stay sober a year, including weekends, no pot,

no, no, no, no Ambien. OK, Then you we're going to give you a little metal chip 987. I'll do the math for you guys. That's that's a little less than 8%. OK. In the in the United States, when this book went into its second printing in 1955, we had a success rate of 75%

and now we're sitting at 8%.

There's there's only one reason

all of these people didn't just decide they didn't want to get sober. The problem was, and the, and the literature abundantly confirms that our history is that the newcomers that were coming in during these periods of time weren't told the truth. They they were told that if you just come to meetings, we stopped stressing the spiritual program of action guys. And we're not talking religion here. We're not talking Christianity. We're not talking you got to believe my way. But this is a spiritual program, always has been, always will be. It's not a self

program. If you could keep yourself sober, why haven't you done it before now?

Y'all understand? Some of you don't agree obviously. Rock on, have a nice life.

I guess I could careless if it's working for you, keep doing it. I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but but, but we're not going to water this message down for the real alcoholic, the person that really needs this because it makes you uncomfortable.

And this is this is what we did in those open, disgusting meetings, those dark tunnel meetings. This is what we did for years. We stopped talking about God. We stopped talking about the spiritual experience. We stopped talking about the 12 steps. What we talked about was one day at a time. Don't drink. Let's see, you can do that and I can't. You follow because meetings don't treat alcoholism and I'm the real deal. What happened was the biggest mistake they made with me. The, the biggest mistake we've, we've made

in our fellowship is that we stopped qualifying the drunk, we stopped doing a first step with the newcomer when they come in the door. We, we got excited because we had a new member of Alcoholics Anonymous. That's what we did. But the problem is, is that some of these members that we got in there didn't even need to be here. Does that make y'all clear on that one? Well, I, we talked about it last night. I'm a member. If I say I'm a member, of course you are. But if you're a member who doesn't even need to be here

and you don't need to work the steps, what are you going to do with a newcomer that comes up next to you and ask you to sponsor him? You're going to teach him the same way you were taught, which is go to a bunch of meetings. I'm not knocking meetings. Go to a gazillion of them if you want to. You follow. I just Oh my gosh,

let me write this.

Let me show you something here

in in 1987, after the suicide attempt, I walked back in the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous and and the old geezers that were helping me started that night and then some of the next morning they spent some time with me one-on-one. Instead of listening to my story or telling me about their story, they qualified me. They asked me the specific questions that the big book asked us to ask to see if you need to be here again. Because if I don't think I really need to be here,

I'm not going to stay. I'll give you a little

story along those lines up. One of the guys I ride bikes with was a dentist in town and and he was doing some work on me years and years ago. And he said, Chris, you got a little spot on this tooth. It looks a little funky is if you give me about 20 minutes, let me scrape, I'll I'll take care of this and it won't be a big problem. I says, Nah, I'm in a hurry. Listen, I'll make an appointment later.

You know some of that grown. Yeah, Nine months later I had a root canal on that tooth, you with us that I could have taken care of with a 20 minute little scrape and been done with this business.

Why didn't I do it is because I didn't think I needed to do it. You're with us.

It's the same thing with the 12 steps. Everybody can sit on their butt for the first three steps and nod their head. And yes, I believe yes, all good because because this all you got to do is sit. You don't have to do Jack. By the time it gets to the 4th step and you got to start doing some riding and actually like, like you want me to pay back some money, you know, actually do something. Then then the then the stuff starts to hit the fan. And if you don't think you need to be here, you're not going to stay.

That's the that's the statistics you follow in and out, in and out. They knew I wanted to stay sober, Guys, I came in and I picked up a chip. I'm crying, I'm beat up. I want to stay sober.

And the guy didn't just say welcome, thanks for coming back. He said. He said, let's qualify you and find out are you in the right room? Are you, do you need to be in another fellowship? Are you a real alcoholic? Or maybe you're just a fruitcake. Maybe you're just a nut case fruitcake. Maybe. And there's nothing wrong with fruitcakes. We have medication that can help you with that. Good therapy can help you with that. Maybe. Maybe you're just effing lonely.

Maybe that's the end and we can help you. We'll get you a dog,

but you don't need to be sitting in on in our that's I know. Did you catch the sarcasm there? I

we're not on a membership drive. We're here for the, the people that that really, really, really need to not drink and not drug anymore. You'll follow an A a it's it's not drink

in 87 after that suicide attempt, these guys finally got around me and

and qualified me first time in seven years in Alcoholics Anonymous. Anybody ever stop you with me? The question in a a in the United States to qualify is do you have a problem with alcohol? You see, because that's the Grapevine stuff. That's the qualification for membership in our fellowship. Any anybody can say yes, but the book doesn't say that the book gets really specific. You got to have certain symptoms

to be an alcoholic. You'll follow. Guys, I've got to make sure we get straight with this before I can go on because some of you are going to get grindy here. I'm not saying that you're not welcome in a a I'm saying that this is a diagnosis of a fatal progressive illness. It's not something that just can be taken Willy nilly. Well, maybe I am, maybe I'm not. What difference does it make? I'm telling you what difference it makes because the book is going to say, are you willing to go to any length to get sober? And if you don't believe you really

are dying of a fatal progressive illness, you're not going to do this work. And we do the newcomer a disservice when we don't qualify them. The people at the hospital where I work get freaked out about this. We finally get them in treatment. Big chunk of change. They're in there, right? And I'm asking them now to stop and rethink this.

Like, Chrissy, you don't want to do that. What happens if they decide they're not one of us?

What? What happens if Pamela Anderson calls me on the phone and asks me out for a date? I mean, why are we even discussing it? Hot damn, this is good stuff. I don't understand. Oh my gosh,

It's like people think we're working on some kind of Commission in AAI. Got him to come to six meetings. I get a little bonus check in them at what

I think it's a great idea. I'd be rich. You know what I say? But that's not what we're going to do. I'm going to show you what this looks like. Now again, when this old guy that night asked me, it says were you willing to go to any length? The the thing he did different with me that no, none of the other people that had ever tried to work with me did. Is he? He told me what that looked like.

He told me what willing to go to any length looked like. And that was we're going to work the steps and we're going to work them fast.

Probably one of the most controversial things we say from the podium, and we're all on the same page that the the two other folks that I'm sharing the podium with, we believe the steps should be worked rapidly.

The early guys in Alcoholics Anonymous all work the steps in 30 days, folks. All of them.

All of them. Oh my God,

And the old geezers that were there in the back, they all understood that this was this was a, this was, there was a sense of urgency. I'll say this and move on. It's one of the biggest problems that treatment centers have caused us in this, in this in our country. I don't know about here is that they've removed this urgency to finish the work. And that's one of the biggest, biggest problems. They do great work in treatment. And then if we're not motivating them out as part of my job at the hospital where I work is to get them connected to some nice people. I mean, I got a bunch of numbers and names for people in Iceland if I get a patient coming back.

Back here, I'm not gonna just say here's a meeting schedule in Iceland, go see these. I'm gonna give them some individual names. Go catch this cat, talk to him and let you with me because they're the guys are going to catch him on that side and jam them on through the work. They leave my hospital with a completed four step. Now they got to just dump a fist step, get on down with this work.

If they don't do that, they have no chance of staying sober. I don't care how good our facility is or how good your facilities are here in Iceland. You with us, guys? Treatment centers don't don't allow us to recover. They were never intended to do that. Treatment centers detox us. That's what we have to look at. They teach us what to do, but unless we finish it, we're not going to get well. If we're the Real McCoy. Small percentage of us guys are wired this way. The thing that ties us all together in here is not our stupid

stories. How many do we have? Anyone eyed cooks in here that ate out of dumpsters? Any. Let me see anybody.

I can't identify with anybody in this room.

It drives me nuts because that's what they say. That's what we have to tell our story so that we can find other people we can identify with. But you see, Bill Wilson understood that that was not our focus. What we can identify with is this. Some of you when we go through this, we're going to be bonded for life because we will identify the fact that we're we're on the same page that we have this disease called alcoholism. You follow and some of your going to walk out here, smoke a cigarette, scratch your head and said, shit, I don't know if I am or not. Hopefully you'll come back in and let me talk to you and help you with this. Follow

This is progressive and naked.

There's a little eggy, there's a little spermy. OK,

I was born in 1953.

This is this is when I became an alcoholic. Guys, this is genetic stuff. Some of the studies that we did right here on in your country, it proving this in this this beautiful gene pool that you guys have had. There's been some great studies on the genetic predisposition. I didn't take my first drink.

I drank some Boone's Farm Apple wine. They have that here. Boone's Farm Apple wine. I'll send you some. Don't worry about it.

It's just pretty. I don't know. I don't think it's ever seen a grape, but it's green. I don't know what it's, it's just pretty apple.

Oh my gosh. I started drinking in 19711987,

they stopped. OK, I'm in sober 22 years now. My disease didn't stop progressing when I stopped drinking in 1987. That's why this is so dangerous with, with, with new, with, with old sobriety in our rooms. Once you get here, this idea that, well, I can always come back. All we have is today is horse. It's rubbish. We're not, I'm trying not to, you know, it's just absolute rubbish because what happens is you pick up thinking that you can always come back and do it again. And we're seeing lots of our alcoholic brothers and sisters out there not able to come back

because the damn disease has progressed so far. It's grind. Ground them up. We were talking with Smart earlier. We were talking about this, not the smoking business. It's the same thing. Five years sober. I quit smoking

for 10-15 years and then I started again. You with me. Three years ago I stopped again and it was a completely different experience stopping three years ago, you'll follow than it was in the first time I just laid it down. Second time I was in a fetal position under my bed, you know,

it was a lot worse than when I quit drinking. I got to tell you, psychologically, I was ready to die. And and that's if it's the progression of the illness is what it is. So if you come in and you got some time under your belt, understand that you may never get that time back. That's what you need to pay attention to. Anyway, all that to say the thing that ties us all together. There's three parts to this illness. And Bill Wilson in the front of the book and the doctor's opinion starts talking about the phenomena called craving. You with us,

we could get a graphic illustration. I mean, y'all look around this room. Now you got to,

well, you'll all look alike. Never mind. You can't do that in Iceland. God Dang, what a fool. There's so many different people in there. But you got, we got some age group differences. We got some nice young people in here, real very young, OK, We got some old crusty geezers like me in here. But you look at the difference, OK, And it's like everybody wants to go to that. We do it in the hospitals all the time. We have, we have the we have the professionals over here, you know, the doctors and the lawyers, like they're like, they're a different kind of alcoholic, you know, and we have the collegiate

quote. I just think is AI have young adult alcoholism. You know, it's like what you know, you know, it's, it's just nuts. We have the duly diagnosed over here. Back in the day, we used to have an Indian track in North Americans and a gay track and a Vietnam vet track and a why do we do and what are we doing? Why do we do that which it's rampant all over the world. I know I have a men's meeting and women's meeting because we're spent. Why? We're all the same. I'm not knocking any of those meetings. I'm just saying,

why do we do it? We separate ourselves one more time. We're most selfish, self-centered people on Earth. And now I'm going to go to my own special group because I'm that special. You'll follow what I'm saying. In the United States, we were talking to somebody last night. I ended up in a gay meeting not long ago purely by accident, but I didn't. I'd never heard this this term. Well, it became obvious after a while that I was in because all we talked about was being gay. We didn't talk about any. I said, buddy, I'm in. I think I'm in the wrong God damn room. I thought this was a a. It is.

Then how come I've got the only big book in the place? How come I'm the only one talking about solution? All you want to do is talk about who you poke less. I don't understand this.

I don't understand that they call it special population meetings. Oh my God,

like I say, I'm going to start my own God damn groove. You know one eyed dumpster divers. Come on.

But we should you, we rule.

I just say I, I rule because I'm the only one here. Oh my God.

In the In the Doctor's Opinion up in the front of the book, guys, it talks specifically about the phenomena called craving. The book says the phenomena never takes place in normal drinkers or druggers. Guys. Normal drinkers drink too much.

One time

in treatment instead of asking all the stuff. How many DWI's have you had driving while intoxicated? How many times have you been arrested? We got to ask just one simple question. Did you ever drink so much you puked? Oh God damn Rod, did you ever do it more than once? God damn right.

Welcome to Alcoholics Anonymous.

It's the guys. Normal people, their bodies metabolize alcohol differently. They'll start to feel that, that little, you know, that little discomfort, you know, and they'll say, oh, no, like my little sister, I'm starting to feel it. And they'll stop. I'm starting to feel it. And I think I'm going to, I'm going to push through this, you know?

And I do. And I end up in a bathroom puking. I come back out, wipe in my mouth. It must have been that chicken we had for dinner. I don't know,

it probably had to do with more with the 12 beers you had before you ate the chicken, but just the thought. Just a thought.

Both talked about control. Can you control it once you put it in your system? Can you guarantee me how much alcohol or dope you're gonna do every time you follow guys? I can control it for periods of time. It appears I'm controlling it. But what's happening is, is that on certain days the craving can be satisfied with a small quantity of alcohol you follow. How many of you guys have ever drank 2 beers and just stopped?

Raise your hand,

there's a bunch of you. Thanks for your honesty because I've done it 1000 times. How many times did I start to drink and drink? I was going to drink 2 beers and stop and ended up drinking 20. You know, it's the same stuff. But on that day, what we don't understand, they don't understand that. And that day the craving wasn't satisfied until I had 20 beers. You with us, your body, at certain times, depending on how far this disease has progressed, will be satisfied with different quantities of alcohol. And that's why Bill Wilson says,

stop looking at the amount you with us, stop looking at at the quantities because this is what this is how we end up killing so many young adults. This is how we end up killing so many women in our fellowships. All we want to do is talk about how much we drank. But women don't necessarily need to or at times can drink as much as somebody else on any given day. You follow. So we're scaring them with the stories of the quantities. But what we're doing is we're giving them an excuse to just leave. I've never drank a 12 pack ever in my life. But the problem is,

did you say you were gonna drink one and drink 3?

You with me? This is what the book is trying to make crystal clear. That's because the phenomena craving kicked in and we were off to the races. Treatment centers can take care of this physical piece was called detox. All we got to do is get you past the physical piece of this again. We were talking last night with the with the big upsurge in in prescription pharmaceutical medication in the United States, this detox is becoming extremely complicated. You know, with us, I'm sure you some of y'all are seeing the same thing. CNN had a deal a couple of weeks ago

saying from since 2008, pharmaceutical companies have have out distanced cocaine and heroin overdoses in the United States.

You'll get that pharmaceutical medications are killing more people in this in the United States than heroin and and and cocaine combined.

Freaks me out. And of course it's perfectly acceptable in our fellowship. Another reason we're losing so many of our old members is because of pharmacy a doctor. This is not drugs. This is medication.

That's when you need the glasses to look over

the physical piece. Our folks in the United States just started this. Just say no stuff. Had it figured out pretty OK. Everybody understands this physical piece. Doctors, probation officers, lawyers, my mother, everybody understands the physical piece. You Alcoholics, once you start to drink, you can't stop.

You're you're powerless once you start to drink. You with us treatment centers all over the country in the United States today are teaching. I am powerless once I put it in my system.

And yet the Big Book makes a clear point in 20 pages in our book that you are powerless before you put the crap in your system.

If all we had to do was deal with the physical piece, it would be like dealing with an allergic reaction to, say, food. If I'm allergic to milk, you with me. How do you find out? Drink milk. If it makes you sick a couple of times, then what do you do? Somebody said you just quit drinking the milk. At that point, that's all it is. With the alcohol, the dope, it's the same thing. If you know that you can't control how much you're going to put in your system, quit.

That's a good idea.

It's like we talked about last. I'm just fixing to do that.

I've quit 1000 times based on that information right there. God Dang, that's a good idea. And two weeks later, the car's washed, the closes, the house is painted, you know, everything. Checkbooks balanced. You know, God Dang, I should have gotten sober years ago. This is great.

And then this mental obsession kicks in

and I go to hell in a hand basket.

The mental obsession is a form of mental insanity, folks. It says in our book on page 24, I don't know what it is in in the Iceland text, but on page 24 it says we have lost the power of choice and drink. And This is why we need a spiritual experience folks. Because if that obsession comes back you with us. How many of you guys have been sober for a long period of time and had a little voice that tell you it's OK to put something in your system you'll follow My buddy DJ says it best. At what point does I change my mind? Qualify for insanity?

Yes, you stopped. You had stopped. Everything was coming up roses and yet now your little head says it's OK if I smoke that pot

and then I'm back off to the stupid races. I could have one beer.

Oh my gosh, we're watching thousands of Alcoholics and relapse around O'doul's in the United States. Non alcoholic beer. They have that stick crap in Iceland. Non alcoholic beer. They advertise it, you know, but it's got alcohol in it. Enough to trigger the phenomena of craving. But who knew?

You just, you just have to drink more of it if you want to get a buzz. I don't know. My wife would come home and I'd have twenty of those things laying on the deal. She's well. You were thirsty this morning.

Come on, guys. It's got nothing to do with thirst. It's got to do with this. This

here, this is what kills us. If you're a hard drinker, you can stop, get detoxed, and one day at a time not take a drink you follow. If you're the real alcoholic or real drug addict, this mental obsession keeps kicking in. You're going to be screwed

and your family is going to come to you and say if you don't drink, don't stop drinking. We're going to take your babies. We're going to fire you from your job. We're going to lock you up and you're still not going to be able to stop. Y'all understand that hardest most heartbreaking patient we get to that hospital are people on liver transplant list in the United States. If you're you need a new liver because of hep C or or alcoholism, they'll give you a new liver. If you get sober, they'll put you on a list and if you can stay sober, they'll leave you on the list. And if you get drunk in a random

UAU A,

they will pull you off the list. I've had dozens of these people come through our hospital and I've only seen two get a liver and one of those drank it up. You follow? You think a guaranteed death sentence would stop you from using? Except we can't, the book says, bring into our mind the forefront the the the problems that we've had with it. That's the insanity around it real quick. Come on,

This is why Chris Raider can't stay sober right here. Here's the issue, man.

I got some little issue man pins up here. You guys want them. You don't have to know what they are, but they're cute so you can have one.

It'll make it look like you know what you're talking about. This third piece buddies real quick and I'll stop. This third piece is the spiritual malady. I know there's cats all over Europe that are grinding their teeth about this. This is a two-part disease. I understand in the front Bill Wilson describes it as a two-part illness, but the third piece he talks about non-stop and that's this thing called the spiritual malady. All right, I'm going to ask you guys to play with me for a second. Nobody's got to get up here and get naked, but I want you. I want you to. I want.

Well,

come on up, Samantha. No,

but I want you guys, yeah, I want you guys to ask. I want you guys to ask yourself, answer yourself the same question here around this thing called the spiritual malady. When I look at your truth based on your experience, when I'm not drinking, what happens to my internal condition?

Big Book talks about being away from the drink and the drug. Pretend that glass over there is alcohol and I'm I'm months away. What's going on inside here? My external world is getting better. You'll understand that. I got more money in the bank. Now I'm I'm I look a little bit healthier.

Stuff gets done when I'm not loaded laying on the couch, but internally I am irritable, restless, and discontent.

I'm depressed #1 symptom of alcoholism. Untreated alcoholism and drug addiction is depression, and we insist on trying to fix it with a pill. I'm not knocking the pills, it just won't fix the problem. If the problem is alcoholism, you follow. Remember I said it last night. My problem is not alcohol. My problem is alcoholism. If alcohol is my problem, get detoxed.

It won't be a problem. There's no alcohol in your body anymore. Shut up already.

But what happens with me is the same thing that I watch happen with so many of y'all. I lay the booze down, put the dope down whatever and and and downstream a period of time I will start coming unglued. The bedevilments on page 52 talks about being having trouble in personal relationships, trouble making a living, no sense of direction. How about anxiety, fearfulness, make sense? Oh my gosh two weeks out for me, 3 weeks out for me. I'm coming apart at this, at the absolute seams. I'm, I'm,

I'm irritable, restless and discontent. Somebody walks in, whispers to somebody in the back. I'm three weeks away from a drink. You with me? I'm not working the 12 steps. Well, I wonder what that was about.

It's instantly about me. It was, hey, you left your lights on in the car. But no, no, no, they're firing me today, the last day I'm going to work here. I can see it now. I just know. And internally I just feel she's going to leave me. I know she's cheating on me. And I've got this all built in my head and I'm worth this piece of shit. And I'm you follow. That's about the time most of us in the United States say I need to go to a doctor. I can't sleep at night. You with us. I need some medication.

Why don't you work the steps and have a spiritual experience and then all of that internal stuff

will go away? This is my biggest soapbox that I've got, guys. Is that in treatment as well as in our meetings, all we want to do is

an inordinate amount of time talking about the external problem. How many of you guys drank and drugged when you had a lot of money?

How many of you drank when you had no money? Oh shit, same hands. Hmm, great relationship.

Satan's sister.

Hmm. Same hands. You all understand. We got people in America today. I guarantee you. I think I'm gonna move to Iceland. I can stay sober over there.

You guys are moving over there. It's like what? And I understand the geographical. I understand. But we want to try to change

so that we can stay sober. You follow. I remember praying to God one time. I said, God, if you let that woman marry me, I promise you I'll stay sober the rest of my life. You have this two weeks ago. She's shoveling them Cheerios in her mouth. I'm saying, God, if you could kill this woman, everything is going to be OK.