The Overeaters Anonymous Region Ten Convention

Good morning everyone. This is a backup
to Basics Big book meeting and we'll start with a call.
Hi, my name is Carl. I'm a compulsive overeater.
Startled 1
Back to basics Big book. OK, My my background for is I came into our way almost 14 years ago, 13 years and 10 months and I was I made a commitment to abstinence at that first meeting and I have been abstinent since. Having said that, around about nine months into my recovery, I was probably like a lot of people, I was going to meetings and I was reading the, the, the literature
and I was thinking about doing the steps
and thinking
and thinking,
which Step 4 format will I do when I get to step four? What about step 9? That's going, you know, all this sort of thinking about it stuff. I was fortunate enough to be visiting around about then some friends in Melbourne, one of whom came had a long, many, many years of
relief from her addiction in another program, another one who was in an OA also and as as I was. And they started asking me, OK, how's your program going? What are you doing? What are you doing with the steps? You know, where are you with your steps? And I saw, you know, I practice the steps on a daily basis. And I looked at me and went, yeah, yeah, but what step are you up to? Oh, you know, I do.
And they just looked at me and said, bullshit, you don't know what you're talking about. And they really started questioning me, really started getting into it. And it was very clear that while I thought I knew about the program because I actually had been involved with another 12 step program many years before, it was very clear that I did not know the program. I did not know exactly how to do the steps. And they said, all right, you need to know in the week you're here,
go and buy yourself a big book. We start tomorrow morning
and they started working me right through from the very front, front page of the big book and threw it. And they said by the time you leave here in a week's time, you've got to be ready to do your Step 4. So we work through the all of the early stuff in the big book. They explain what it meant. And a lot of the time I've got to say was was them fighting and arguing with my disease. Oh, but I can sometimes control the food, you know, Sometimes I can.
No, that's not the problem. It's not that you can sometimes control the food, it's that sometimes you can't,
Albertina. And because nine months, the first flush of the program was kind of wearing off and I was getting back into my disease thinking.
So they, with a great deal of perseverance and some very late nights, managed to get me to the point where when I got on the plane in Melbourne to fly back to Sydney, I had my exercise books ready, ruled up, ready to do my Step 4, which I did on the plane.
Having been around the program for a little while, I also couldn't believe that a step forward would be written in a flight from Sydney to Melbourne. That was a standard flight with no detours to New York,
but the majority of it was written. I mucked around for another couple of weeks
just I guess finishing it off and then shortly after that I did my step five with a a, my then sponsor in Sydney. These were not the people who were sponsoring me through the big book who were in Melbourne.
That step five took a long time. I had a lot of stuff to work through, to talk through. It took a lot of Saturday mornings. By the time I caught up with my friends again
some months later, they had a distinct feeling that I was again starting to maybe lose track of it. And so I redid that step five in one evening and the next morning with one of those two people. The first step five was incredibly gentle and incredibly patient. The second step five with this mob was ruthless, brutal, and cut right through a lot of my nonsense
and it was humiliating and painful and incredibly unpleasant. There was nothing pleasant about it because what they were saying is it's not your good points that are getting you into the food. It's your defects. Your defects are the problem. I don't want to hear how good you are at this and that and how nice you are and all that. That's not what's causing you your problems. So it was right down to it.
OK, so then after that got got on, got my step 9 done on into my 10:11 and 12:00 which I was having to do as soon as I had finished my step 5/10, 11:00 and 12:00 then take over. What's this all about from my viewpoint is about the timing of steps of doing the steps. And the thing I learnt from those people, the thing I learnt from myself for my own experience, is I truly don't believe
you can do the steps too quickly, but I sure should believe you can do them too slowly.
And the point being, we get stuck, we procrastinate, we lose that impetus. We get stuck on one step. We forget what was went, went before it. We regress.
If I don't do the steps really well the first time, then I'll go back and do them again and again and again. I've had sponsors say to me and voice the very fear that was slowing me down in my recovery. The fear. What if I get through them all and I don't get abstinence, I don't get recovery. That was the fear that held me back. The program was my last hope. What if I got to the end of it and there was nothing? Then there would be nothing.
My life would be pointless. So this was underneath my procrastination.
And the point is, the longer you procrastinate, the less like you do them anyway. So the end result, the very thing you fear, is the most likely thing to happen. There is no recovery, there is no relief, there is no solution.
And and that's why when people say to me, but what if I get to the end and I say, well, we'll go through them again and again and again till you get absent.
The I've heard people, unfortunately, I've heard stories about people doing one step a year. And that truly tears my heart out. If the promises for the relief from the food come in step 10, why would I stain this disease for 10 years before I get to the promise of relief that is there in step 10? You know what it says draw away as from a hot flame It talks about. That's the first time in the steps
where mention of the relief comes. The Step 9 promises are about improvement to my life. The Step 10 promises are about relief from the addiction. So I've got to get to Step 10 to have that relief. OK, some of us might get it way back in step one, but not all of us do.
I look at the big book and I look because when what I came away with from the way I was taken through the big book was an incredible kind of seal an incredible. I want to reconnect with the energy these people had when they set this program up, when they wrote this book. I want to get back to that. So I really looked for the and felt that urgency. You know, they were getting drunks off the street in the hospital. They were having them through their steps in a day,
you know, they were getting them down, they were getting it done and they were getting on with the show.
And that to me in the figures, the stats in the early part of the big book, the statistics of recovery show that their method worked, not my modified method 50-60 years later of how I change it and modify it. That is for me, the message, the way to do it is there and it's very clear and it's well speed out.
A a member in the previous meeting was talking about in their early days there was only the a, a literature.
So of course we wanted literature OA literature that related to our disease. So it was written as an add-on, not as a replacement. But of course, what's happened over time, people don't get get back to the detail of the steps and how they are. We're doing the add-on. Well AOA wasn't going to waste space rewriting all this and just change the word to over eater.
They stay assumed that we would be using this and that the the the steps and traditions
were to help us know our way through this. And that's another area where I think that the message can get lost. Every time the message gets changed, gets altered, no matter for what good intention. It's like a tracing of a tracing of a tracing. It gets blurred. The fineness is lost, the detail is lost. So for me, back to basics is right back to what does it tell me to do there?
The people who took me through said
you can't do step one.
When people say they're doing step one, what are you talking about? You can't do step one. I pondered on that. Step one is a statement of my being. I am, and I'm a nugget.
I am an overeater and my life's a mess. What am I gonna do? Am I gonna keep eating to keep proving that I'm an overeater and that my life's buggered? No. It's a statement of being. There's nothing I can do there. It's the surrender. That's it. That's all I can do is surrender. 2 and three, Tell me if I lack this power, I'm gonna have to find the power somewhere else. Another statement. There's nowhere to go. Nothing to do except that acceptance of wealth. If I'm powerless,
I've gotta accept that somebody else might have the power that I don't have. Which takes us straight into the Step 3 surrender and straight into the Step 4 action.
So I said I got most of mine done on the plane. The people in Melbourne very clearly told me keep it brief, we don't want to be bored with yourself. Indulgence.
Did I say they were a bit tough? OK,
And that's a very good point. I can use my journal writing for all my angsty and all my feelings, but my Step 4 is down. If you we look at how it's put in in the big book, we see the first half of the step four in those little column drawings and they are very, very brief entries, major events in my life, very brief entries. I don't have to go on and on and on about it. And you all know
there's the little columns and there's each entry. There are only a few words in each and then the other side of the the column of what was my part in it.
OK, so that shouldn't take long. Write it down, get it done. Step five, it very clearly says get on only delay if there is a good reason, because there is no suitable person available. The only reason for delaying the step five only if there is no suitable person available.
I think most of us could rightly claim that we do have people available,
but that's not an option for delay.
Six and seven follow immediately after it. At the centre step five, it tells me to go home and spend an hour going over what I've done and make sure that it's all in place. And that leads me straight into steps 6:00 and 7:00. So step six and seven, surrender of my defects is straight after five. And the thing that I've found is that the longer I am away from my step 4-5, the less bad those defects seem to appear. In fact, they kind of disappear. In fact, I don't have
like any amends because really I was in the right anyway.
The beauty of following straight into that path is it is when I am conscious of the pain and the humiliation of my behavior is when I want to humbly go to God and apologize, ask for forgiveness and ask for guidance and direction while the pain is on.
As soon as I've done my inventory, I need to be practicing step 10 because it tells me every time the defects of selfishness, self centeredness, self pity, dishonesty or fear arise, I should be going through that process, writing them down, handing them over to somebody else, making my amends. So step 10 kicks in, doesn't wait way down the track. Months and months and months and years after I've done all my immense Step 10 comes in straight away.
As soon as I finished my 511 and 12 straight in, straight in after my my my step five, my sponsors took me straight into that and explained how step 11 work and the step, step 12 strenuous work one with another.
OK,
To me, the whole message was one of urgency, of one of speed, that it was incredibly important to get through it and get through it, not thoroughly, but quickly.
Always go back and do it again and again and again
and that to me the the reinvention of my program that keeps me fresh is going back with it with that message of how to interpret the big book with sponsors each time. And I just want to close by saying that I heard at when I was in Albuquerque several years ago at one of the meetings there at World Service, a member with
30 or 40 years recovery saying the problem is when people come first come into the program
and we're in pain and we're humiliated and we're upset, we get the fellowship and we start to feel better. What we need is the program to be taken straight into it. And I would say as a closing and perhaps provocative comment, if you are being held back in your recovery, if your sponsor is holding you back, get another sponsor. If I am not available enough to hear you through your step 4-5, get another sponsor
because the urgency is the death that I face in this disease. If I go back and conclude. Thank you.
Hi, I forgot to introduce myself.
I'm listen, I'm a compulsive over eater
and now I have Susan.
Hi everyone, I'm Susan. I'm a compulsive overeater. And thank you, Cole for that. Starting us off. I thought I might just share my experience of using the big book in my recovery and the fact that for the first many years I've been in OA almost 19 years,
didn't know a lot about the big Book study. I knew about the big Book. In fact, I've written on here. I bought the big book in 1990. And I know that when I first picked it up, I thought, oh, Gee, you know, it's all a bit, the language is a bit old. You know, I'm not sure if I relate to this and all this sort of stuff. And I'm, I'm sure other people can relate to that feeling of first picking it up. And I'm not trying to put a negative spin on it. I'm just sort of saying
it was. I didn't really understand the significance of the big Book.
And so
I first did a book, big book study probably about five years ago. So, so that's 14 years into recovery.
So I'm glad that I was around people who were offering
a workshop on the Big Book. And I,
I did that,
but I didn't actually do all the steps whilst I was doing that workshop. But I did get an understanding of how the Big Book study worked. And, and then a couple of years later, I decided it's time for me to do it one-on-one with somebody to do it, you know, properly. And
just going back a little bit in my recovery in away, I've told this to many times that
I have a, a long history of abstinence and relapse. And the reason for that for me was I, I'd get up to step five. I've done quite a few step fours and fives, but I was actually terrified of step 9. So I never went any further. And it just took me a long time. I had to be brought to my knees,
wake up one day and just said, oh, God, something's got to change. Another relationship had ended, was just like, you know, what's what's going on in my life? I'm eating again. Something's got to change. And you know, the light bulb went on and it said you actually have to do 12 steps, not five or two or three or, you know the program. And as Paul said, the promises come
later on and the promises come as a result of the of courage
to do steps 4:00 to 9:00. So
I, I got a sponsor and, and I did the big boot study with that sponsor, did 12 steps, not four or five in five months. I did it quickly because I'd been in OA for 15 years. I know all the jargon. You know, I didn't have to be taught all that stuff. Just had to get down and do the nitty gritty and do, do the 12 steps. And I'm so glad that I did. That was 3 1/2 years ago.
So
I was when we were thinking about talking about the big book, I was just drawn to the chapter called We Agnostics.
At this stage in my recovery, having done the steps, I'm really looking at deepening my spiritual, spiritual side of my program. And this chapter particularly emphasises that it is a spiritual program and
a lot of the
extracts from this chapter are talking about power and lack of power and needing a power greater than myself. And I also looked up what does the word agnostic mean?
The word agnostic is one who holds that nothing is known of the existence of God beyond anything material. And
I can't speak for everyone, but I've been through periods in my life where I have had sort of a spiritual life and then other times where it's like, you know, the material world was much more interesting and much more fun and there was no God. But I have to say I've always believed deep down there is a God, but not my behaviour would not have shown that I believed there was a spiritual aspect to myself.
But coming into OA
has opened that side of Maine.
I have to say I have been searching for a spiritual
energy in my life. And this gave me the opportunity. And every time someone tells me, look, it's not that you have to control the food. This is a spiritual program where you say, I always go, oh, good. You know, it's not I don't have to be in charge. It's not me that has to do it. And it's not me who's good and it's not me who's bad, whether I'm eating the right foods or the wrong foods, because
I was put on my first diet when I was seven years old. And I had a list of good foods and bad foods. And you, you eat these and you don't eat those. And, and I'm good if I'm eating these and I'm bad if I'm eating those. And
that's not, that's not what it's about, is it? It's, it's about bringing that spiritual side into my life. And
it says here,
lack of power.
That was our dilemma. Because,
you know, I think human beings do have an inherent goodness in them. We all have goodness in US
and we all wish to be better. And we would wish that
we didn't do the things that we do with food, which
encompassed lying and cheating and isolating from our friends. We would wish that we can't do that. We we don't have the power to change it. So it says lack of power. That was our dilemma. We had to find a power by which we could live. So obviously it had to be a power greater than ourselves. But where were we to find this power?
And it says, see, that's exactly what this book is about. So it's like it's all here.
It's all here in black and white and
recovery is guaranteed in this book. You actually find words in this book that says if you do this you will get well, which is very comforting as well.
So
this chapter goes on and explores all the reasons some of us might come up with as to why there is no God or why I wouldn't want to follow any sort of religious or spiritual path.
You know, we, you know, can make all sorts of critical judgments of people and, and it says
we talked of intolerance, but we were being intolerant ourselves. You know, we, we claim other people are, are saying one thing and doing another. But, you know, look at my side of the street.
So, yeah, the chapter lets us explore, you know, what's what is my thinking around it? And is that a bit skewed
really? It gets us to face what what's my life like at the moment? And here's a really good summary. Before abstinence,
we were having trouble with personal relationships. We couldn't control our emotional natures. We were a prey to misery and depression, that's for sure. When I'm not not abstinent, it's just misery.
We couldn't make a living. We had a feeling of uselessness,
full of fear. We were unhappy. We couldn't seem to be of any real help to anybody. Because when I'm in the food, I'm so focused on myself. How am I ever going to be able to be of use to another human being?
So that we saw and
other people see other people's experience in OA and the miracle of recovery is evidence of some power of work. It's just clear evidence that there must be something greater than ourselves at work. So we saw others solve their problems by simple reliance on the spirit of the universe. We had to stop doubting the power of God. Our ideas didn't work.
The God idea did,
and something that Yev really always struck home with me. A
again, when we're still struggling and fighting the idea of a spiritual
force in our lives, it says here, actually we were fooling ourselves. For deep down in every man, woman and child is the fundamental idea of God. It may be obscured by calamity, but it's there. And I realise I've always believed that. And that just really struck home. I'm going, yeah, yeah, that's right.
And
the chapter finishes with a story about someone's spiritual experience. And
there are different sorts. There's spiritual experiences, there's spiritual awakenings. You don't have to have. You know the big light bulb moment or you know the golden light coming in and you're suddenly transformed. For me, 19 years,
the journey of 19 years has been a gradual opening. I think it's been a gradual opening of my heart, and along the way I've had had little spiritual experiences as well.
On my birthday a couple years ago, again,
I mentioned relationships because I was trying to find God in other people. And I've had lots of relationships that haven't worked because
I didn't find God in other people. I didn't find the unconditional love from another person. For me, unconditional love only really comes from God because us human beings, you know, we're not, you know, totally able to give full unconditional love. We try. And so yeah, my birthday, another
relationship had ended a month before I woke up
and was talking to God and actually reading Bills story in the big book and just sort of saying to God, how do I love myself? You know, how do I do it for myself? How I can I feel this love for myself
without relying on
a human being to give it to me?
And I'll try not to cry. I cry every time I say this. And as I was sitting there, I felt this energy. It just it came. It actually came to me. It was outside and it came to me and inside me and I felt the most incredible love I've ever felt. And that was the answer. I asked the question, I got the answer. It came from God. There, there is a power. I've actually felt it. There is it is something that that I can touch and feel
and I was just filled with this love when I just wow. So
yeah, I have a personal relationship with my higher power. My higher power is my best friend. My higher power is is everything and
I get answers all the time. So
yeah. So I'll finish with that. But
I've had some really wonderful experiences with my higher power, and I've had some really amazing awakenings from other people too. You know, when someone says something and you go, yeah, that was meant for me. Or I read a reading, I go, yes, that was meant for me. That was from God. And that
the more I live a spiritual life, the happier I feel the
I am to want to pick up because why would I want to do that? Because for me to eat, it's misery. To overeat is misery. To live a spiritual life is bliss. So thank you.
Thanks very much, Susan.
And now I hand it over to hi. I'm checking. I'm compulsive, Ovarida.
I thought it was the came to believe meeting. That's all right. I'll just open with a quote from Kane to believe. We have found that the actual good results of prayer are beyond question. They are matters of knowledge and experience. All those who have persisted have found strength not ordinarily their own.
They have found wisdom beyond their usual capability, and they have increasingly found a Peace of Mind which can stand firm in the face of difficult circumstances. So that's been my journey in the 12 steps,
umm, as far as I can remember, and I can't remember back too far, but I think I was born a compulsive overeater. I was. I do know that I was bulimic for 23 years before coming into OAI. Do know that stopped the minute I worked in, walked into my first meeting
that have been abstinent for over 13 years.
And I do know that my life continues to unfold in ways that are certainly beyond my wildest dreams. No, I won't share with you my wildest dreams. You probably don't want to hear them. I certainly don't want to hear them. But for me and my story in coming into our way and encountering the Big Book is very similar to Coles and meeting up with people who were working the Big Book and showed us how to do that.
So from the Big Book, I think the key thing that I've learned is that
working on my mind is the only way out of this obsession. It's the only way out of the mental obsession, the the most total self absorption,
only way out of being in the food. I can't change this physical body, but I can change my mind, my thoughts, my feelings, all those things that I project and create reality out of very quickly
that doesn't actually exist.
So a way to clarity, to awareness, and certainly to spiritual health and a way
of actually changing my focus from myself to others and how I can benefit others. And I remember after about the first year in OA thinking or first year of abstinence thinking, well, I've been looking after myself pretty well. You know, my mind's starting to feel a bit clear. And you know, so I might be able to be of benefit to others. And increasingly, that has been the joy of this program for me is being able to pass on what I have
through this. So before I came to OA, not surprisingly, the disease pervaded every aspect of my life.
My physical health, my work, my relationships,
friendships,
IT, finances, everything was in chaos. That's what got me here, the unmanageability. I didn't think I was powerless over food. I thought I could eat it, throw up and keep eating and have no effect. Well, I discovered I was a little bit deluded
a few years before I came into OAI WAS
doing some training and a physi, you know, body awareness training. And one of the trainers said to me, you have a body constructed on fear.
At the beginning of this year, I went to a retreat with my work colleagues and we had one of those bonding things you do every morning and say positive things about each other anonymously and stick it up on the wall. And so people put up things about me, you know, all those nice sort of patient, quiet doesn't cause a fuss type of things. And my boss put fearless. And so both of these things that I remember from before OA and this year were, were like shocks to me. They were how people were perceiving me that
not necessarily how I was perceiving myself. But when I thought about that fearless, I thought, well, I've had a bit of practice at that, doing a few fearless moral inventories, and I've done quite a few, and some of them weren't quite as short as Carl was suggesting they might be.
I think I'm bored. A few sponsors with my
thorough inventories
but good. I need it to be so OK, so,
so
I know that what feels better for me today is the fearlessness rather than the fear. And I know that this is a result of working the steps. And I just wanted to when I was thinking about this session and everyone saying, well, I'm going to look at this chapter and that chapter. So the second-half of the 1st 164 pages are step 12. And I guess that's where over the past couple of years in particular,
you know, I've just, well, I got to this point of, you know, having had a spiritual awakening as a result of these steps, I was starting to feel pretty good, really. And I stopped having any spiritual growth. And a few things happened in my life to make me aware of that.
And so, so I was looking at to the family afterwards and that was
not a chapter that I looked at at the beginning when I first came into OA because I had a friend whose daughter was an overeater and was saying, oh, what do they say suggest you do? I mean, it's great. It says on the first meeting, do this, on the second meeting, do that. You know, it's really very practical. But anyway, so I started looking at this and I'm learning Tibetan at the moment. And you sort of read backwards a little bit. So I sort of started at the end and made my way forward. And it's actually quite logical when you pick out some quotes and read it backwards.
I'm not suggesting anyone start working the big book backwards, but after a few years, if you're getting bored with reading it forwards, you can try the backwards approach. But anyway,
so I'll just, I'll just read it. This dream world has been replaced by a great sense of purpose, accompanied by a growing consciousness of the power of God in our lives. We have to come, we have come to believe He would like us to keep our heads in the clouds with Him. But our feet ought to be firmly planted on the earth. That is where our fellow travelers are and that is where our work must be done
are the realities for us. We have found nothing incompatible between a powerful spiritual experience and a life of sane and happy usefulness. And I do have that sense today. I, I, you know, that sense that we get through sharing, that it is a deep sharing. It is that grounded like our feet on the earth type thing. It's not a airy fairy thing. It's very practical and very grounded. And I've been in the situation recently where I've been
meeting with and people have been talking to me who are
just discovering that they have an addiction. And it is that sense of being able to, you know, that what we do when we first go to a meeting, we share at a very deep level. When I first got into Oi was actually in a relationship with somebody who came along to a meeting and was, you know, to support me and, and was just amazed at the level of intimacy that we have so quickly with each other that because we connect on a, a spiritual level, on a deep level.
It's what happens to me every time I pick up the big Book. I'd find it a very spiritually inspired book. And so when I read the big Book, I have that connection immediately, you know, just reading a passage, just reading. I remember being recommended really 10 minutes a day and just spending that time reading the big Book has had a profound influence on me. And then my focus, as I said today, I'm just going backwards now.
So
we realise that we've barely scratched the limitless load, which will pay dividends only if we I'm changing the he's to we. I've got suggested to do that to or I minds it for the rest of his my life, our life and insists on giving away the entire product. And the reality of that for me is continue. I continue to contemplate, continue to analyze the meanings of what's presented
in the big book. It is a textbook, as I discovered when I first read it. I thought it was a nice book, but I didn't realise
it was actually a program of action. I learned how to do that, but to be able to contemplate and analyse it, meditate on it and put it into practice in all my affairs
is rather challenging. But, you know, seeing, you know, minute by minute, I get up in the morning and the first prayer I do of the day is may I be of benefit to others, You know, may every action I do now, I'm not there yet. But that just contemplating that rather than what can I get out of it? And the practice of
giving rather than getting, as it says will be our guiding principle. And this was so difficult for me because when I first came in and read the promises, the thing, the promise that kept me coming back was fear of people and economic insecurity were leaving fear of economic insecurity. Great, Einstein.
Now I didn't read it carefully. It didn't say economic insecurity relief. It said fear of
OK, but what I have learned in my spiritual journey that is the more I give away, the more I get back. And it's just I can't describe how much I would get back. The fact that I'm alive today is one thing. You know, I think that the way that I was going, I either would be dead or I mean, I had the sort of suicidal thing happening for a while. I'd rather be dead or I might have killed somebody else because I also had the rage them quite well developed. I was very good at that. So the craziness, the unmanageability of my life was so
related to it that it was invisible to me. It was normal. And today I can look back at that and go, no,
is definitely not normal. And there's no way, Jose, I wanna go back there. And that
realisation, I think what kept me coming back in OA and kept me working the big book. And it has been that process of letting go. And why pick up on the on the giving, on the practice, practice in generosity giving, giving of the program, giving of myself, giving off my time. I was actually reminded this week that actually my time doesn't belong to me, belongs to everyone else. And it was such a relief to hear that. Oh, that's OK. Now I can stop getting resentful when my time's been taken away from me
because it's actually not mine.
So it was, believe me, quite a relief. But I'm also in a point in my life where, you know, in three weeks time I'll be giving up paid employment. Now, if you said that to me like 14 years ago, it would be like what? And, and when I'm destitute on the street next week, what will happen? You know, because that's how my mind would work, you know, everything, everything would be extreme. Everything would have to go to the extremes,
but that I can be at that point today that letting go of that fear of economic insecurity and also of being more, you know, and the fear of people also. I used to go to parties and it was like.
The food obviously was very compelling, very interesting, and I didn't have to talk to people. And so when I put down the food, I thought, well, maybe I shouldn't go to parties. And I realized, you know, you can have conversations at parties. You can actually find out about people's lives, and nobody notices that you're standing there with a minimal water all night. I mean, you know, there are more absorbed in themselves than they are in you actually,
so they don't notice and, and actually letting go of those fears. So you can see the promises gradually, gradually coming to happen in my life. And I and I certainly did do the thing that I got warned about early on in these guys who were running a big book weekend. They said most of us are going to get halfway through those promises. Step 9/10
and, and you know, it says we're amazed before we're halfway through and we get amazed and we stop. And I certainly did that. And then,
as I said, you know, feeling pretty good about it all. And then a couple of years ago, I was sponsoring somebody who was in a spiritual crisis that was certainly way beyond my experience and was like, how do you, how do I do this? How do I be of benefit to them? How do I help them? And I had to really look at the fact that I had failed to enlarge my spiritual life at that point. So coming into program, boy, you know, great, you know, spiritual expansion, I came in feeling spiritually bereft. That was a shock.
But very soon I got a strong connection with a higher power and,
you know, sort of haven't lost that sense. And it's just got stronger and stronger.
But I wasn't really doing much more because I was feeling pretty good. And, you know, why change what feels good? And then I realized there's enough stories here that warn you, you know, so and so it's going really well. And then guess what? He failed to enlarge his spiritual life and then lost it. And so I started to look at that. And OK, so in, in what ways do I continue to enlarge my spiritual life? How do I continue
my spiritual growth in program when I got to a point where I do? My experience tells me I'm I'm free of a compulsion of overeating and and that, you know, that I need to rigorously work my program each day and and it's coming back to the mind. You know, there's never it's, it's endless working on my mind. It's a it's a trash can. It's a complete garbage can. It just is constant work and that I that I need to not, not necessarily it's not
being up on myself and saying, you know, it's a trash can, you know, and being a victim, but to think, well, there's a lot more work to do. Here's an invitation for growth. I mean, that's what the program promises it. Now there is an invitation.
So putting that into into my daily prayer, my daily practice, just go back to the book because you know, their words are better than mine.
Say something here
and
actually I'll go. I'll go back to came to believe, 'cause their words are even better.
So this other quote from Bill W from Grapevine is sobriety, all that we are expect of a spiritual awakening. And that's the thing that I think for me could have well been a trap of, you know, feeling I'm free of the compulsion of overeating. So what next?
So when the when it's not that, when it's the struggle with the food, it's like I was willing to put in heaps of effort, heaps of effort into the program as soon as things started to improve. No, as soon as after a while things were improved and after that it was just like not putting in the effort. So sobriety is only a bare beginning. It is only the 1st gift of the first awakening. If more gifts are to be received, our awakening has to go on and it does go on. We find that bit by bit we can discard the old life, the one that did not
work for a new life, that can and does work under any conditions whatever. And the conditions of my life have changed somewhat dramatically over the past 18 months or whatever it is. And I'm about and I also have a food plan today. I never would have envisaged I could, you know, sort of live
with this, you know, sort of food plan that I have that is I don't need after midday and I'm not recommending everyone else follow. This is my food plan, my only and certain foods I don't eat and so forth and whatever.
And for somebody whose whole life was constructed around food, what I find today is that it's not at all constructed around food. And I have a great freedom in my life away from food that I never would have thought imaginable, you know, before coming to OA. So for that I'm very grateful,
very much. And now we'll pass you on to Sharon. Thank you. Smartphone's quite funny.
So, OK, well, I'm Sharon, I'm a compulsive overeater and
I thought about, you know, writing down how I was in a structure today, but I think we'll just go with the flow really. Hopefully it won't be too haphazard. But just to qualify, I came into Overeaters Anonymous in 1989, so a long time ago. And it's fabulous to have faith in the room because faith was at my very first meeting and it's great to be in a fellowship with is that continuity. And I remember that first meeting and
I was absolutely desperate. And I mean, you'd have to be, wouldn't you, to come to a place called Overeaters and on this.
And yeah, I,
yeah, it was a profound experience for me. And I think out of when I'm 46 now, and I think in my life, the gift of Overeaters Anonymous has been the best thing. I mean, people talk about the birth of their children, which for me has been profound. But Overeaters Anonymous has given me the ability to be married and to have children. All the good things that are in my life now have come from over it as Anonymous. Anonymous.
But you know, I came into the program and I mean, what do they say? If you can't set a good example, at least you can be a warning to others. And, and I've said that a few times and it is the truth. You know, I came into the program, I saw the 12 steps. I thought, right, a step a day. I'm going to be out of here in 12 days. And I really wished I'd still kept that book because it was like day one set one and I wrote down what I thought step one. But I guess I came into the program a very driven person and I guess that's part of my personality.
I wanted recovery and I wanted it in 12 days and I was going to do anything. And I got a sponsor the first meeting I went to and I rang her every day and she said, whatever you do, just don't take that first convulsive bite. And you know, I, I didn't, after about two weeks of abstinence, I overdosed on sleeping tablets because nobody said you couldn't take sleeping tablets. And, and I guess the thing for me was that,
you know, if you want to find out why you overeat, try not overeating. And for me it was the total inability to deal with feelings,
to identify feelings, to know how to manage feelings, all of that kind of stuff. But anyway, I came in and I was very determined to get well. I, I didn't care too much about serenity. I thought serenity was a fairly boring thing. You know, the serenity pre OK, that's fine. Didn't have a relationship with God. But I picked up the big book because that was really all there was. There was the big book and there was our Brown book, the first book of Overeaters Anonymous and some pamphlets. And I went to a novelco course, which was a course for newly recovering.
And I'll have to say I didn't have any problems relating to the big book story because I had made a decision at 17 not to drink because I knew by that stage if I did what I was doing with alcohol, what I was doing with food, like I had no doubts that I'd probably be an alcoholic. Having said that, I mean, I've tried lots and lots of different drugs at that age. I was playing in bands and things like that. And I have to say, none of it really impressed me.
You know, I remember trying heroin and thinking
rather each, much rather each, you know, loved dope because people used to binge because they were stoned and I didn't have to be stoned to binge like them. So I'd have people that would keep me company eating. And I remember binging once on hash cookies. And that was a really bad idea, what I'd done from that. But anyway, the point is that as a drug, food was it for me. It still is it for me. The only thing that surpassed it has been a general anesthetic. And you can't take that every day,
you know, like surely and you know, so I, I mean, I've heard somebody talk this morning, I think Thea said talking about eating alcoholically. Yes, absolutely. Read the big book didn't have a problem that it was written by a bunch of men in 1937. No problems whatsoever. I just related to the alcoholic story. It is alcohol is in my family. I'm sure I probably would have been an alcoholic. But anyway, the point is that I got stuck into the Big Book early and I read it enough time so that I sort of have got it carried around in my head.
There are times when I, I, I don't necessarily remember the page number, but I know that it's come from the Big Book and that's one of the things that's great about reading it. But I have to say, for me, the profound change in terms of working the steps came about six years ago when I did a Big Book study here in Sydney. And when I said earlier, if you can't set a good example, at least you can be a warning to others. I came into the program and it took me out years to really get abstinent.
Now I was mostly abstinent. I was abstinent 90% of the time. My weight was pretty stable. But periodically I would relapse and I'd come to meetings and I'd be a mess. I, I wouldn't be like one of those, you know, I often look at members who come and say, well, I picked up and that, you know, they'd be fine for me. I was the suicidal mess. You know, it was, I'd go feral with the food and it was just awful. And, and I suppose over a period of time, it became less and less frequent that I would relapse and the relapse relapses would last longer. But I knew that I always
abstinence. But I guess looking back on that time where I was relapsing, it wasn't that I didn't hear what I needed to hear to recover. And I'd certainly read the big book. But it comes back down to working the steps. And having been around since 1989, I've seen a lot of people come in and go and I've heard a lot of people say, oh, look, I doesn't really work. And and I haven't seen a single person work the 12 steps and not get well. I've seen a lot of people come in, work a few steps
and not and relax. Seems to acts of people do that, but I haven't seen somebody come in, work the 12 steps and continue to work the 12 steps and not get well. To me, it's very much cause and effect. I don't think you can do. I mean, you don't have to love working the 12 steps. You'll still get well, you know, I mean, it's like, what do they say? Going to a gym? You can go to a gym and you can lift weights and you can love the experience or you can hate the experience, but you're still going to get muscles. You know, you can't lift weights and not get muscles. And I think it's the same thing here. You can't work the 12 steps and not get
but having said that, I mean, there's ample opportunity to kind of, you know, hear that small voice that says now this is what recovery looks like. And, and I can stamp my fitness and say, no, don't want to do it. You know, I have times like that all the time. I can, I do, it's like a flight path to me. I can deviate off the path,
but the degree of deviation coming back down to my spiritual practices, you know, I might I mean, you only have to be a few degrees off a flight path and you're not going to end up in London, You're going to end up somewhere else. But if you continually
look at, you know, it's that whole daily practice, the Step 11 practice
where we reconnect with that higher power that allows us to come back or allows me to come back on track. But so I struggle for a long time, you know, worked a lot of the tools. I mean, making a daily phone call for a year gave me, you know, a couple of years abstinence, actually only just one phone call. It was the difference between not being absent, being absent. It wasn't working the steps, but it it worked. But The thing is, the disease progresses. And I think if you really, for me, if I want that sustained
place of recovery, I really need to work the steps. So there are tactics and there are strategies in this program. To me, the tools are tactical, but you know, you really want to look at that psychic change. That's the 12 steps. It's there's, you know, the really important stuff. But anyway, I did do lots of inventories, stacks of them. I think the profound change for me was about 66 years ago, realizing that at certain times on powerless over food, I'm not always powerless over food,
but I never know when I'm not going to have the power. And that's what leads me to great dramas. And the other thing that comes out for me is that
a realization on step one is that, you know, my life is unmanageable with the food, absolutely unmanageable when I'm binging, but it's also unmanageable without the food. And
you know, that's the second-half of step one. And I think the thing about the big book for me is it really explains what the problem is. And I remember years ago
I was, you know, working in a corporate environment and I was sent on this really expensive course that was run by defence people, I think. And it was about problem solving. It was a fabulous course. And they used case studies of companies in the States that had gone bankrupt because they had been confronted with a business problem and they had gone in with a solution and because they didn't understand the problem, they didn't solve it and the company went bankrupt. And so we were given this a superior way of identifying
with real life case studies. And could we have turned those companies around and save them before they went bankrupt? And the answer was yes, we did very well because of this particular type of thinking. But this particular type of thinking was about analyzing what the problem was. And this is what the big book does. The problem goes the the big book outlines very, very clearly what is the problem. And here's the problem. Problem is I have a physical allergy to food. And what's an allergy? It's an abnormal reaction.
And my abnormal reaction is that certain foods excitement tremendously more than anything else in the world.
And and quantities from other people, they get too full. That's it. They couldn't eat a single more thing. Like my husband. Yeah, couldn't eat the rest of that half of Tim Tam. It would just be, you know,
for me, if I feel full, there is a switch that goes off in my head and it says more, I go into turbocharged feeding frenzy. You know, that's what happens to me. It's an abnormal reaction quantities and certain foods.
And if I knew that I was allergic and and that was just the only the problem, the only problem that I had, it would be fine. But I have this mental obsession which basically says that food will fix things.
And so for people that are allergic to nuts and they know they're going to die if they eat them, they just stay away from them. But I can know that if I binge on certain foods or have certain quantities that it will lead me to being in a suicidal state. It it still isn't enough. The self knowledge isn't enough. Because there will come a time when I get into this strange mental blank spot as they talk about in here. Well, it well, it where it will seem like a really good idea,
you know, And yes, you know, my car broke down a few weeks ago
before our eye. Eating would have been a really good solution to that. You know, everything was a solution to that. It it just did. I mean, I was in a really violent relationship with someone who was going to kill me. He told me he was going to kill me. And it was at a time in the 80s when there were women being shot in Sydney and the police took a long time to get there. I mean, that was the reality. And I never lost a night's sleep because I was eating, you know, eating was a really good, powerful sedative for me. And I remember going to a dentist who said, you know, what's happening for you grinding down,
chief, are you stressed? And I just said, no, I don't think so. I mean, I'm a school. I was a school teacher at the time. I'm teaching a pretty rough school. You know, I didn't even know I was so tuned out. The point was that food was everything for me. It totally sedated me. It solved everything. And so there's still a part of me where I have this problem where I've got this abnormal reaction to food when I when I ingest, you know, certain foods and certain quantities. But there's this mental obsession, which is by far the biggest problem. And they talk about the jaywalker in the big book about the person who thinks, you know, it's fun to jaywalker.
They have the odd skirmish and then they start getting really seriously injured and then they get flattened by a semi trailer, but they're still alive and they still get out of hospital and think that jaywalking is a good idea. It's a great analogy for me. I can still think that food is a great idea. But you know, I've got a program that protects me from that sort of thinking. So it talks about the problem on the on the physical and the mental obsession, but it also talks about this other problem that I have, which is an incredible self centeredness and selfishness. And
you know, I really relate to Bill's story in the big book where he talks about proving to the world who was important. And I have a drive for that. You know, I, I mean, I remember coming into the program thinking I want to be the person in the room with the longest absence. I want to be the skinniest person, you know, that's how I think. You know, whenever I do a course of study, I know that, you know, coming first is the only outcome that I want. And and so I have this driven personality and so,
you know, I mean it comes back to wanting to do 12 steps and 12 days and, you know, graduate and be fantastic and perfect. And you know, I still that's still a fundamental part of my problem. And the big book talks about that a lot. You know, Egoness, you know that
that that whole self-centered thing and and the the book outlines, you know, my powerlessness over there, my powerlessness over my selfishness, my powerless over powerlessness, over the food and the mental obsession, all those sorts of things. And it talks about finding a power greater than yourself. And it says a number of times that the key purpose of this book is to help you find a power greater than yourself that can solve your problem. Yes, there's the power of the fellowship and that's
fantastic because I think we do need to work together. We can't, you know, can't work. You can't recover in isolation,
but more than anything, we have to find that power greater than ourselves, which is more than the power of the fellowship. And it comes through the steps. And I guess for me, I mean, I've heard people talk about steps three and and 11 being the hand rails. But if I was to sum up the program in one step, it would be step 11, you know, sort through premeditation to improve our conscious contact with God, praying only for knowledge of his bill for us and the power to carry it out. Basically, what else is there? You know, God, I mean, you don't have to be Einstein to know that God doesn't want me to be binging today. You know, that's a given. He doesn't want me to be engaged in an
year old, you know, where I'm, you know, sort of in that whole ego driven thing. He doesn't want me to be forceful or driven or unkind or all those sorts of things. It's not that hard to kind of discern God's will a lot of the time. But but I have to, you know, be in that conscious contact.
It says a lot in the big book about giving up the struggle, ceasefighting. You know, that's not been my way. I've been wired to fight. You know, I grew up in a very argumentative family with a very controlling dad, you know, And I knew from an early age I did not want to let him win, and I didn't let him win a lot of the time. That was how I thought, you know, today I have moments where I actually see that it's not about winning or losing, you know, and not all the time,
but but it's that whole thing of surrender, you know, it's, it's not
winning the battle. It's about being free of the battle. It's about being free of the struggle with the food and.
And that's still something that I need to work the program to be reminded of because I do get into that. And if I just work hard enough, put enough in it, put in enough effort, you know, if I, you know, all of that kind of stuff and it doesn't really get me where I want to be. But you know, I just want to read one thing because
this to me sort of sums it up. It's on page 16. It's sort of
before we go, you know, it goes just after it outlines the steps, but it says, you know, our description to the alcoholic, the chapter to the agnostic, and our personal adventures before and after make clear 3 pertinent ideas. A, that we were alcoholic and could not manage our own lives. B, that probably no human power could have relieved our alcoholism. And this is the most profound thing, see, that God couldn't ward if he was sought, and it's a big thing here if he was sought. And I guess that's really what the program is for me. It's about seeking that connection with a higher power
that solves my problem. So yeah, that's me really. Thanks.
Thanks to everyone on the panel and I will have
passive basket around if anybody wants to ask any questions of all of each of the panel speakers are all of the panel speakers.
Oh, OK. So the question is what do we do on a daily basis to work our program? All right. Well, I know for me it tends to be
a lot of the time it tends to be on the fly because I've got two kids who take up a lot of time and energy. And I know whenever I've tried doing meditation, they've always woken up early just to get me company. But I think following the directions in the big book on a good day is pretty much the stock shop. But I mean, definitely the step three prayer. Most days I wouldn't.
Most days I'd be saying the step three prayer and if I don't say it will be because I'm not awake when I wake up
and and then it will happen later on. But but very much the step three prayer
plus the step 7 prayer, which is, you know, basically God have all of me, you know, the good and bad do with me what you will believe me of the bondage yourself, all that kind of stuff. Steph 11, I know for a long time in this program, you know, we talked about Step 10. Step 10 was the daily inventory. Well, that's not my understanding of it. If you actually go back to the big book, Step 10 is a periodic thing. I mean, the other day I was feeling a tremendous resentment against a friend of mine who I was having coffee with that afternoon. I thought, I don't want to have coffee with her. And you know, I've got a sponsor who says we'll just do steps 1:00 to 9:00. So I just do steps 1:00 to 9:00.
Bingo, you know, Interstate to have coffee at 4:30 in the afternoon. It was fine, you know. So step 1:00 to 9:00, how long did it take
of writing at the computer? But the thing that I do think that I, I do, I mean, if I, if I lived in a perfect world, in principle, I do this, but I don't always read it every day. But step 11 in the big book, it tells us exactly what to do. Page 86, page 87, page 88, right, says on awakening, let us think about 24 hours ahead. We consider our plans for the day and then it goes through all these things. So it tells you what to do in the morning and then at night it says, when we retire at night, we're constructively review our day. We'll resentful,
afraid, and it goes through. It's really, actually incredibly simple. I think that's the thing about the big book is it explains in great, great simplicity, but also with depth how we do this practical program of action.
And in terms of the step troll stuff,
try and have contact with somebody on a daily basis. I have to say emails made me quite lazy. Often my step 12 contact with people is through e-mail. Has it made me lazy? I actually at the moment are in the in the thick of a life that's way too busy. And it won't always be like that, but e-mail is a way out for step 12 for me. But but I think the other thing too is to practice these principles and all our affairs. And so practicing being kind. There's no shortage of opportunities for that patients tolerance, kindness, love that it talks about in the big book.
So, but you know, do I do it perfectly? Absolutely not.
You know, it really relates to theatre talking about wanting to kill a husband. Yes. You know, Really. Yeah. And
yeah, and the kids understand why people, you know, what is it? Animals in the wild eat their young, understand why they do that. Do totally. So yeah,
thanks Sharon.
How often should you work with your sponsor?
How do you find a sponsor when no one is available to sponsor?
What with the going through the big book? When we're doing that initial work, I try to meet weekly for about an hour to an hour and a half each session while we work our way through it.
Some sponsors because of their own situation or isolation, I will suggest a very regular phone in others, not I, I that's very much a personal thing. I'll get a sense that I think particularly if I, if I'm, if I'm sponsoring somebody who
doesn't like to bother people, they're not, that's often somebody else. They look, I'd actually like you to ring me everyday or somebody who's isolated or something. So I wanted to become so automatic that they don't have to think twice about picking up the phone. Whereas other people that's not an issue too. And I said, just ring me when you need to. Once we've gone through the steps,
as far as I'm concerned, they can, they can leave, they can stay, they can contact me regularly, they can find somebody else.
It's their choice. So I have some sponsors who've been contacting me very regularly for many, many years and others, I don't actually have a sack anybody. If they never ring me, I just assume they're on the back burner. If they want to ever ring me again out of the blue, they can. I don't, I don't care. You know, it's not I'm I'm there if they need me. So in the initial stages, weekly for at least an hour to an hour and a half,
how do you find a sponsor when none's available here? I think that's a real, real hard one
because certainly from the way I do it, I can't take on more than one or two people at a time. I just don't can't give people the time they need. When you're working through it, I think you just got to keep badgering people. You just got to keep that at people. And
why I say that is because I'll say to people when I've got a space, the next person who's approaches me is probably the one who I'll I'll slot in. So if somebody in my face going regularly, yeah, yeah, yeah, then I'll, I'll pop them in. But if they've only spoken to me once, they say I'll keep me in mind. Well, six or nine months later, I've forgotten they've said that.
So I think it is important to to to stay in people's faces and just be determined. I want you to sponsor me and I'm not gonna leave you alone till you do. It'll work.
I call this another one specifically for you. Tell us about your most unusual night step amends.
Do I recognize this writing or not?
All right, wrapping up Convict Made bricks and posting them back to Port Arthur 20 years after I'd nicked them from a historic site.
Thanks, Carl.
And there will go a question for Susan. OK.
The question is can you share on how you work or have worked steps 6:00 and 7:00?
It's very interesting actually. I thought step six and seven would be deep and meaningful and there'd be a lot to do. But
when I went through the big book with my sponsor, the amount of space taken up for step six and seven was two paragraphs. And
it was actually very quick. It wasn't, you know, angst, angst about it. It was answer a few questions, move on. So
for me it was it was a process of yeah, going through to step 9 and I can't find what where is it into
in step six, page 76?
I think they're almost covered in one weeks of the big book, isn't it?
And it's just really searching within myself, am I
willing to let go of these defects, but not getting too hung up about it? Because if I, if I thought about it for two months, it'd be like it'd just get too complicated. So for me, it's very straightforward. So
thanks, Susan.
OK. Do you also suggest working through the OA workbook? Why or why not? I can just say all the time,
particularly steps 1-2 and three, certainly when I'm sponsoring someone else and for myself because that's how I did it.
Looking at those questions on questions 1-2 and three, because we have to do the reality check. We have to identify the problem and a fantastic set of questions to do that. To really clearly put it down in black and white,
to cut through the delusion and denial and the fantasies that we tell ourselves. Like I told myself that
fact that what I thought gave me the greatest pleasure in life was the source of immense suffering, both myself and others. And to be able to identify the foods that behaviors that 'cause that and what actually I thought they'd give me and what actually they gave me. And to have that down to refer back to. Because what I've found time and again is when people
lose their abstinence, they also lose the clarity of what they discovered in those steps, particularly step one.
And so to be able to say, look back at what you wrote, update it, check it in. Is it true for you today? And to continually go like that backwards and forwards in, in, in the steps in the workbook. And because we've got the 12 and the 12 and the steps to relate directly to the 12 and 12, it's also go back and reword it says in the 12:00 and 12:00.
So it it's a fantastic resource. Have to say that I've photocopied it many times and probably only ever bought one book. So this is a confession. I've photocoded many times and give it to many sponsors. So
if if World Service is doing a sort of check on how many books are being sold, they could probably multiply it a few times if we'd coughed up the money for them.
The question I've got here is I'm sponsoring someone who in the past 20 years did tax evasion in another country and repeatedly shoplifted.
Not surprising she is stuck on step 9:00 because of the fear of going to jail. Any suggestions?
And I think with
this question, it sort of raises the question of what's the role of a sponsor? And, you know, I've been around for a long time where I guess I've sort of discerned 2 styles of sponsorship. You know, there's the sponsors that say you must ring me at a particular time, you must do what I do and you must do exactly what I suggest. Very instructive style of sponsorship. And you know, certainly worse not the, you know, may not be my particular style, but it, it has its effect. And I guess the preference that I have is that, you know, as
sponsor, I just share my experience, strength and hope. You know, I, I can't share anything except what I have experienced myself. And there have been things that have come up for me in Step 9 where it hasn't been really clear what I should do.
And I think my personal response if I was sponsoring someone like this is just to pray about it. You know, I don't know what this person should be doing. I think it's about maintaining that spiritual contact and allowing time to pass. You know, I don't think, yes, there's the need to keep moving on in the steps and, and it is a spiritual program of action, but there's also a time
for just praying for guidance. And, and I suppose there's the obvious things in terms of doing some anonymous research, you know, is it likely that the person's going to go to jail and all that kind of stuff? They're the logical things. But from a spiritual point of view, I would have thought praying about it because things do become clearer. I don't know how other people would respond to that. Yeah,
I was just going to add something.
To me it's just reminding it's a spiritual program and
somewhere I heard if somebody's stuck on a step, it's because go back to the step before or if you're stuck in step, go back to the step before. But this one says stuck on the fear. So it's like go back to step four, do a fear inventory, continue to do those because what is disturbing the person is the fear.
And so it's not necessarily even what we manifestly do. Repay money, whatever, go to jail good place to work your program
anyway. But but what it does to our mind and then what? So when we call in the fear we've moved away from a higher power. We've given up on that spiritual connection. So it's like go back, go back, go back if it if if you find I mean continuously often go back to step one. But certainly, you know, keep doing inventories to get to the point of
a willingness or an acceptance, even an acceptance of what is being done for a start.
And then
the answers will come out of that entrust that the answers will come through the program that that as I can't judge for other people what is the right thing for them to do in the world. I can't judge that for myself most of the time. But I, I do have a great faith in my high power and in the guidance of that. And, and even when it's difficult to take those steps to trust
that we are being looked after,
exactly going to say that, yeah, that when I'm presented with that sort of question, I take people back to the chapter on the ninth step in particular around pages 7879. And I say, OK, I'm not going to tell you whether you've got to do it or not. You tell me whether it gives you an out. Can you find an out if it says you don't have to do it?
And I, we just go into it and into the text because I think the text makes it's very clear
what and how amends occur. And our OA text is a, is a good backup for that on step nine, Step 2. That's why I say, I'm not going to tell you, you tell me. And we go into it and I say, well, it says about creditors, it says about criminal offense. We'll read it through and read it through and then work it from that. And as the previous speaker said, combining that with prayer, the prayer shows the way through the inventory shows the fear and the relief from the fear. So,
you know, just it, it is all there. Yeah, that's what.
Thanks, everyone. We still have 5 minutes. If anybody's got a question, if anyone on the panel,
if you don't mind me adding to the question, I know you asked Cole, but
when I first did step nine, I want to start on the hardest and biggest thing because I want to get this person out of my life and not ever see them again. And my sponsor decided that maybe that wasn't the best place to start. So reiterating what Coles said, but I just want to share one way of being shown that I found really effective and I think it's worked for others is to have set four sets of cards and write on one set people you're willing to make amends to, like each one on a separate card from your list. And
which means you know how to contact them,
another one for ones that you're willing to but you don't, you've lost touch or whatever, another one for your unwilling, but you do know how to contact them, another one where you're unwilling and you don't know how to contact. So from easiest to hardest. And by the time you start working through the willing and able,
some of the others seem to shift. I had bizarre things happen, like a conversation on a train where somebody I didn't know
how to contact them, somebody I was talking to knew them and I got their address and I was able to write the immense So things happen and so you the Willingness Can Come
was also a relief to realise that not everything that I've written in my inventory meant I had to make amends to people 'cause there were some things in there that I had great fear around and so particularly sexual abuse and this sort of stuff. When I realised, oh actually I don't have an amends there to make, but I thought, 'cause this person was on my list, I had to make an amends. And that's where working with the sponsor
and I've sponsored people who who say I've got to make this amends. And it's just like, what precisely is the amends you have to make? And if they can't articulate it, this sort of question, isn't it immense? Or are you just having a bad feeling and you want to get rid of the feeling? So being able to identify the difference between uncomfortable feelings and what is it an action of immense.
I am sorry Lutheran out of time. I'd like to thank all the speakers and
people who sent the questions up.
And after the Serenity Prayer, if you want to come up and take a little gift here,
yes, we'll do Serenity Breath.
And I made a strategy to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.