The OA Big Book Study in Winnipeg, MB, Canada

So we're back on the tape and now this is part of the regular Sunday morning meeting. So the 300 people that are, that were here have now been joined by another 200.

And,

and my, my theme for today is finishing step 12. It's, it's, it's, it's the need. And I spoke earlier before the meeting began on the tape about how as part of my recovery, I not only have to continue to clean my house,

which is step 10. I don't only have to continue to make sure that every

that than the day previous on on living my life according to my higher powers principles, the will of my higher power, but I also must carry the message if I am to keep what I have. And I have to do it with all the energy that I have because as the Big Book says on page one

job now is to be of maximum helpfulness to others. The only way that I am going to end up keeping my healthy weight, the only way I'm going to end up being free from the bondage of food, as has happened to me on a daily basis, I have recovered from a seemingly hopeless illness of the mind and body.

The only way I keep that is by giving it away. And if I do not give it away, I cannot keep it. And So what I want to talk about in the remaining minutes available is the whole concept of what that means. How do I carry the message Now? The big Book was written for people who did not have a A around them. As I said right at the beginning, it was written for people as a Do It Yourself manual for people who did not live in the three centers of

at the time. It was printed in 1939 in Akron, OH, in New York, and in Cleveland, OH,

and anywhere else there was no AA around. So the Big Book is a do-it-yourself manual for how to do the steps, and it includes a whole chapter, and a series of chapters actually, on how to carry the message both to others who still suffer and how to practice the principles in all our affairs. I'm going to talk more about carrying the message to those who still suffer rather than caring, practicing the principal and all our affairs, which is in some way the discussion that occurs in the Big Book, in the chapters

to the wives, the chapter, the family afterwards, the chapter to the employer and the chapter of vision for you.

I'll quote a bit from a vision for you, but but not as much. I've already told a lot of the history before the meeting began, a lot of the history of a A that got a A to the point where it put into 1939 were put into this book. The directions, but directions are really very, very simple. The first couple of pages of the chapter, Working with Others,

tell you how to find a person, and we're lucky those of us who live in Winnipeg and those of us who live in any place where OA is organized, because they come to us. We don't have to find them.

They come to us as long as there's recovery in our rooms or the hope of recovery in our rooms. They come to us as long as we're able to carry the message. They come to us as long as they've heard of Overeaters Anonymous, which is not. And they come to us as long as we have a phone number or a website or that someone knows how to get to a meeting.

And you know, this meeting a long time ago decided that instead of saying OA with an arrow in all the directional signs that we have, because we're at the people on the tape don't know this, but we're at the end of a long hallway in a hospital. It's hard to find us. We have a lot of signs up to give people guidance. This mean decide a long time ago to stop saying OA and to put down Overeaters Anonymous because there are people in the hospital who might be interested, people passing by, you might say, oh, ovaries, I wonder what that is? And we actually put down a 12 step group

to overcome compulsive eating, no dues, no fees, no scales. It works because we're, this group says, as we should all be saying, we're members of a group that have a message to carry to people who still suffer. And there are millions of people who still suffer from the problem that we have and we have to act as a beacon of hope to them.

So, so but there are places where OA doesn't exist. And I suppose if I ever move to one of those places, I would do what the big book suggests, how to find, how to find someone who still suffers. They suggest ask around, go to go to people of faith, go to doctors and tell them what the big Book tells them. How do you tell someone what you're looking for?

Well, on page 90,

by the way, this was written by salespeople. If any of you have ever been in sales, have been given sales spiels to make, you know, if he says this, you say this or she says this when you bring the pen out. When do you do this?

This was written by people who had written things like this or experience them. So there's all this how to, how to sell, how to sell. This is this is all written from a sales perspective anyway, right at the top of page 90. When you discover a prospect for Alcoholics Anonymous, find out all you can about them. If he doesn't want to stop drinking, don't waste time trying to persuade him. You may spoil a later opportunity. This advice is given for his family also. They should be patient, realizing they're dealing with a sick person.

If there's any indicate indication he wants to stop. Have a good talk with the person most interested. Get an idea of him. In other words, you're sizing him up,

but at a certain point your attention is to be drawn to his attention is to be drawn to you. And they say on page 90, almost in the middle, a little bit below. Watch for the end of a spree, at least for lucid in lucid interval. Then let his family or a friend ask him if he wants to quit for good and if he would go to any extreme to do so. If he says yes,

then his attention should be drawn to you as a person who has recovered. Again, one of the themes that I talked about all the way through the that exist in the Big book. A person who has recovered, not who is recovering,

but who has recovered

you, should be described to him as one of a fellowship who was part of their own recovery. Try to help others and who will be glad to talk to him if he cares to see you

go on an airplane and I'm sitting beside someone who is in the least talkative and certainly if the person is is is heavy. I don't even wait to see what that person is and the least talkative and I strike up a conversation with someone in the conversation might get on to overreach is anonymous because often I travel in a plane on OA on OA working and, and, and people say, where are you going? And

I say I'm going to no readers anonymous workshop or something like that.

What's that? And the sad thing is so many people haven't heard of us and we start talking and, and they might themselves say, I think I have a problem or they might say, I know someone has a problem. The chances are 99% that they know someone has a problem. I say, you know, if that person ever shows an interest in dealing with their food issues, mention ovaries anonymous. And you might even say to that person, let's say, you know, I have a son like that or I have a you know, they often will say I some close relative. You even say you met someone

plane that was on a way to an away workshop and you can say to that person two things. One is that I can have ice cream in my freezer and it can go bad and I don't care. And that for me, that's a miracle.

And the second is that it will be do me good. They'll be doing me a favor if they want me to talk to them,

which is in accordance. I'm a person who has recovered and it's part of my recovery to talk to others. They're doing me a favor. I'm not doing them a favor. They're doing me a favor.

So they talk about how to talk to this person and they start on page 91. And this is so simple. And as I said before we broke this morning, it's so unlike what they started off with. It's it's they really refined the sales pitch, if you will, and figured out what really, really worked. And what really works, they describe as a short conversation, no more than two hours.

And it's basically this. You tell your story.

You never say that they are Alcoholics or compulsive eaters. You tell your own story. You tell your eating your eating story,

and you tell it in a way that describes the twofold problem of the allergy of the body and the obsession of the mind. Do you tell it in a way that they begin to understand that they that if that you were doomed and you describe how doomed you were because once you started, you couldn't stop and you also couldn't stop from starting.

And so you tell your eating stories as I began this big book study on Friday with telling my eating stories and I told them on two different levels. The first level

was the level of be eating and eating uncontrollably, with my mind unable to stop myself from continuing to eat. If you're like me, you've got those stories. They're stories of uncontrollable eating, and they may have not have occurred to you as often as they occur to me. Or my stories may not have occurred to me as often as they've occurred to other people. Maybe eating constantly, but whatever they are, the symbol of them is the hand with the food moving to the mouth constantly

and the mind saying I've got to stop, I must stop this. This is terrible. This is I'll stop the next bite. I'll stop the next bite and never stopping.

But you have your, I have my goose skin story. I have my, you know, vomiting story. I have all kinds of stories that I can tell. But you, each one of you has his or her own story and series of stories about uncontrollable eating. And this describes the first aspect of the problem, which is that our bodies are different from normal people. Normal people get full. Normal people get a sense of unease and discomfort even if they eat something that they love.

And we don't know what that means with certain kinds of foods or with certain kinds of eating behaviors.

Doesn't mean it always happens. I have been full in my life, I guess.

Yeah, I, I guess I have once or twice in my life. I don't know if it ever came from eating cheesecake or ice cream, but but I, I, I've been stuffed, but never full. There's always been that emptiness there that I wanted to fill. So I can, I can tell those stories and you can contrast that with other kinds of addictions that other people may have where you may have tried it and not had that feeling that they have and not wanted to go further.

I can talk to that about wine and and beer. I don't drink hard liquor, but I can't drink more than a glass and a half of beer or glass and a half of wine, however good the taste. And occasionally it can be really good

before I start to get kind of uneasy and uncomfortable and it just, I just don't want anymore, as good as a taste might be. And I can talk about my wife who has that with food. She loves chocolate. She loves deep dark chocolate, but she can't eat too much of it before her body says you've had too much.

And, and that whole sense describes, helps describe me as a person whose body clearly is different.

And I can go into all kinds of details are all kinds of medical ideas as to why that might be the case. But there's no question that it's true about me. And unfortunately, I don't think it's become a generally accepted concept among dietitians and nutritionists and and doctors and, and diet experts. But it's pretty obvious to me that I can't eat certain foods without

feeling a complete lack of control and wanting more of them.

And then I begin to say, but that's not my real problem. That's like analogy. I get an allergic reaction. I, I just can't stop eating. It's abnormal. That's what allergy means, an abnormal physical reaction to a physical substance. So once I identify the foods that caused this problem, because it doesn't occur with radishes and it doesn't occur with, you know, with tofu and it doesn't occur with beans, you know,

once I identify these foods

or identified certain eating behaviors that cause it to me, like the need to crunch and chew. If, if I don't crunch and chew or, or suck all the time, then I don't have this need to, to eat all the time. Or if I don't eat right up to the top of my, my, my neck, I, I don't have this need to be even fuller, you know, I mean, whatever it is. Or if I, if I don't eat after 6:00 at night, I don't have this need to eat uncontrollably, maybe eating behaviors or maybe certain foods. If I were a sane human being, all I would have to do

is just avoid those eating behaviors and those foods that cause me the problem.

But I go on and say, but here's the other part of my eating story. And then I begin to go through all the excuses that I've ever had for going back to eating, even while I knew that I shouldn't be. Even after having been away from these foods for a long time and not feeling any cravings, my body doesn't want them anymore. It hasn't had them for a long time. So it's not saying more, more, more. But my mind gives me excuses. And you have your own list, and I have my own list, but I give a list. And usually there's a lot of overlap.

I'm standing up so it doesn't count. It's not part of my meal,

it's only got X number of calories so I can have some. I've exercised for 1/2 an hour so I can have this whole gallon of ice cream because clearly I must have worked it off.

I'm terribly depressed. I'm so depressed and nothing else will make me feel good but this food. I'm so happy and I need to celebrate.

What can I celebrate with? What will make me feel even happier? Food.

I'm so lonely, I'm so isolated. I need something to make me feel better. Food.

Too many people love me. I've got so many people around me, I can't take it. Too much food.

My favorite is I've been. Well, there's also I you know, it's free. They made it especially for you. You'll never be able to have this taste again.

And and my favorite, because it's the one that that caused me to break all my diets was I've been good for a year. I've been good for six months. I've been good for a month. I've been good for a week. I've been good for a day, I've been good for an hour. I didn't eat the bun so I can have the dessert, you know, and everyone understands that. And I talk about other stories about the moment in which I just

clicked. And, you know, I, the big book has a sort of a great concept of parallel with our sound reasoning, our insane reasoning one out. And I, I can often talk about, you know, those of us who are old enough will remember Mickey Mouse and the good Mickey and the bad Mickey on either shoulder. You know, don't do it, Mickey, don't do it. And yes, you can. Yes, you can, you know, and so the example of, you know, I've got this food in front of me and I'm and my the good Mickey part of me is saying, you know, Lori, if you have this food,

you're going to gain weight again. You won't be able to stop eating it. You know what, what all this food means to you, it means you're going to get diabetes. It means you're going to suffer all the problems with diabetes did to your mother and your grandmother and your grandfather. You're going to get joint problems. You're you're going to you're really going to suffer. So you really shouldn't eat this. Don't do it. And the other side of me is saying, come on, you know, why not? Can't hurt.

And these two voices are going on in my mind until You can't do it, Laurie. You can't do it. Lori, Come on.

OK, you know, And that little click, now that's my story. I'm sure you can tell your own stories, and I'm sure some of you can tell stories that are far more horrendous than my stories. Whatever those stories are. That's what the big book says. We start talking about and the other person either says I'm like that or says I'm not like that.

And you know, if they say they're not like that, the big book says thank them and leave.

If they're not like that, then

they're not. The 12 steps aren't for them. I mean, they may be for them in some theoretical sense. The 12 steps are good for everyone, but they're not going to be desperate enough because they don't feel the same identification. But the chances are, if they've come to this meeting, the chances are that if they really wanted to see you and if their family wants them to see you, that they will begin to identify with you. And if you point out that these two strands, this not being able to stop once I've started

and having all the excuses in the world for starting again

creates a vicious circle that you cannot get out, that I could not get out from under myself. Absolutely impossible, because I had this mind that kept giving me permission to go back to the foods. And I point out that in this world, in our society at any rate, most doctors and nutritionists and dietitians and diet clubs and diet magazines or magazines that contain diets

seem to avoid the truth or don't seem to accept the truth. That is for me, but isn't necessarily for everyone,

that there are certain foods I can never eat without getting these cravings, these uncontrollable cravings. And so that they all give us the prospect of someday being able to eat those foods that I know I can't eat. As a matter of fact, some of them these days are so modern and progressive that they allow me to eat those foods while I'm trying to lose weight. And I say some people, that's all you need. You just have to know how to eat moderately. Some diets provide people with information that they do not have,

which is how much they really need to keep their bodies alive. And they can just sort of say, oh, that's what 4 ounces of meat means. OK, that's what I'll eat. I don't need to eat anymore. Oh, deck of cards. OK, I understand that that's the size. Some people don't need what I need. But what I, what I, what the big book says, I tell them is here's where I am. I'm hopeless on my own

and yet I'm not hopeless at all because I have recovered. The Big Book says let him ask you how you got that way because he will be curious and of course he will be. Now, in the context of OA, people come and they hear, they hear us talk about it and they they know that we study the 12 steps. It won't be like, it won't be quite this. Let him ask if he will, you know, I mean, it's not going to be quite the sales pitch that the Big Book talks about, but it'll happen.

And then they say you stress freely the spiritual angle.

You tell that person exactly how you have recovered. You tell that person what you did because you do not hide from that person that this is work

and that it's different work from what that person might be expecting from having gone to other diet to diet clubs or to or to reading a diets and magazines or or or watching television or something like that.

And because that person isn't going to do anything this serious unless that person knows a that he or she is desperate and doomed. Hopelessness. That's step one admitted we're powerless over food. Their lives have become unmanageable. And two, that there is hope. Step two came to believe that a power graded ourselves could restore us to sanity. And if they don't understand where that hope comes from?

A power greater than ourselves and are willing to search for that power.

Then they're not going to do the steps and they're going to start using us as a support group.

And using us as a support group is maybe fine for them, but it, it, it, it's not what we're here for.

So the big book talks about that and it says you do this and, and, and the way it talks about, I encourage you to read it. And you'll find in the book that that's available on the website or the book that is, is reproduced here. And I, I don't know if it was reproduced separately, what I, what I call a schematic outline of the big book. It's sort of like a, a broken down every, you know, every chapter sort of broken down into sections. So you can sort of see where the arguments are and where the thing lies in. And I've broken it down page by page as to sort of what

big book sales pitch is. But basically the big Book says this at the end.

Oh, by the way, it says you. You're talking now about spiritual matters, and your prospect may know more about religion than you do. Listen to the language. This is on page 93. Admit he probably knows more about it than you do, but call to his attention the fact that however deep his faith and knowledge, he could not have applied it or he would not drink. Perhaps your story will help him to see where he has failed to practice the very precepts he knows so well.

You know faith without works is dead. You're not practicing what you believe

and the big books approach and what we talked about earlier, this whole concept that what the big book approach or what the 12 steps are for, not just the big book, but with the 12 steps offer

is this notion that what

what the 12 steps do is remove the barriers between what you believe in and what you do and what your mind is thinking and acting on. And that there's a block there. And if you could just get rid of that block, what you deeply believe in will become what you live for, rather than separated from what you do and what you believe in. And that God

does not have to be anything more

or anything less than what you believe in. And it doesn't have to be a being of any kind whatsoever. I mean, I'm as an agnostic, I'm able to say that much more simply than someone who might come from a religious point of view. But someone who comes from a religious point of view has to remember that they may be meeting people like me who don't believe in a God, who don't have any being that they believe in or willing to believe in or care to believe it. And yet this program is open to us as well. And it's open to us as well because all that's required of us is to be

willing to believe that we can find some kind of power. And it doesn't have to be a God that is normally talked about within religions. It can be a good orderly direction. It can be a sense of dedication to truth. It can be the group itself as a, as a concept of, of humanity at its best. Doesn't have to be anything more or less than that. So we talk about that

and on page 94 they say outline the program of action, explaining how you made a self appraisal, how you straighten out your past, and why you are now endeavoring to be helpful to them. It is important for him to realize that your attempt to pass this on to him plays a vital part in your own recovery. Actually, he may be helping you more than you are helping him. I thank people for listening to me.

They're doing me a favor. I don't know what's going to happen to them, but I know that they're helping me

now. Page 95

right in the middle. If he's not interested in your solution, solution, If he expects you to act only as a banker for his financial difficulties or a nurse for a spreeze, you may have to drop him until he changes his mind. This he may do after he gets hurt some more. If he sincerely interested, wants to see you again, ask him to read this book. In the interval after doing that, he must decide for himself whether he wants to go on and then you leave him.

So we're talking two hours. And then on page 96 it says do not be discouraged right at the top. If your prospect does not respond at once,

search out another alcoholic and try again. You're sure to find someone desperate enough to accept with eagerness which you offer.

We find it a waste of time to keep chasing a man who cannot or will not work with you. If you leave such a person alone, he may soon become convinced that he cannot be covered by himself. To spend too much time on anyone situation is denies some other alcoholic an opportunity to live and be happy. I want to talk very briefly about how I sponsor, but one of the things I do when I sponsor him, there are people in this room who who have both been sponsored by me and have left me as a sponsor because they don't necessarily appreciate the way I sponsor. But I follow this very carefully.

I don't spend a lot of time with people I sponsor because it's up to them to recover, not up to me. I give them whatever information I can about what they about how to recover. I tell them I'm there for them 24 hours a day if they're about to eat some food because they have to get absent in order to work the steps, take that for granted. And while they're working the steps, I'm there as long as much as they want in order to help them keep from eating.

I tell them that if at 4:00 in the morning they're about to eat a doughnut, they can phone me and I will not just speak to them on the phone. If necessary, I will meet with them

because I take it that seriously as any alcoholic would take it seriously if someone phones that I'm about to drink a beer.

I also say if you've already eaten the donut phone in the morning, I don't need to talk to you while you're drunk. I'll talk to you afterwards and we'll talk about what mistakes you made, about how you could prevent it and and will help you work work that through.

I meet with them

and I, if they're interested, they're the ones who make the appointments. They're the ones who keep track of where we are. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to Molly call them. It's up to them to work, work their program. And if they, if they need to be mollycoddled, from my point of view, the big book says let them suffer some more until they realize that it's serious business.

It's not up to me. So that's what I do. They say, suppose now you're making your second visit to men. He's read this volume, says he's prepared to go through with the tall steps of the program of recovery. Having had the experience yourself, you can give him much practical advice. Let him know you're available. He wishes to make a decision. Step three because Step 3, the big book says you should you, you should say the step three prayer in the presence of another person of spiritual advisor

if he wishes to make a decision and tell his story, which is Step 5 if if you're available, if he wants to do a step five with you, but donut insist upon if it prefers to consult someone else.

So you are now giving this person advice on how to work the steps. What's your advice? This is how I was taught. I give people advice to what I was taught.

I tell them this is what I know. I also tell them this. I say I'm not your spiritual advisor, I'm not your counselor, I'm not your therapist. I don't know any answers. I only know what I've been taught about how to work the steps, and I will do anything to help you understand what I've been taught

because it helps me to help you if you want to work the steps.

But I'm not here because I don't have any answers to speak to you, just to make you feel good. I'm here to help you work the steps because that would really make you feel good.

That's very different from the way a lot of other people sponsor and I appreciate that and how they sponsor works for them and it works for a lot of people. So I I don't call down what other people do in the least. I know there are a lot of other ways of working these steps and not just a big boy. I'm just giving you what what I've learned from the big book.

Now

they talk about do we give to this person? Do we find this person a place to stay? Do we do anything for this person? We give this person any money? Alcoholics often have many more problems than than, I guess a lot of compulsive eaters who come to our program do

and. And their answer is, yeah, but not really.

Clancy, This wonderful A, a speaker tells a wonderful story about he's thrown out of the last flophouse in Los Angeles. This is a guy used to be a university professor and he's and he's drunk out of his mind. He's lost his front teeth. He has no place to stay. So it goes to an A, a club room to get some Donuts and coffee. And a guy comes up to him and says, I'm Bob, I'm your sponsor.

Hi, Bob. Read the book, The big Book, obviously. Oh,

thank you, Bob. I don't have any place to read it in. I, I don't have any place to read the book. But I, I have no food. I have no job. I have no place to live. Read the book, you know, sort of like that kind of tough way of talking. And, and, and the big book has that and, and, and listen to this page 98 right at the top. The men who cry for money and shelter before conquering alcohol are on the wrong track.

Yet we do go to great extremes to provide each other with these very things when such action is warranted.

This may seem inconsistent, but we think it is not. It is not the matter of giving that is in question, but when and how to give. That often makes a difference between failure and success. The minute we put our work on a service plane, the alcoholic commences to rely upon our assistance rather than upon God. He clamors for this or that, claiming he cannot master alcohol until his material needs are cared for. And I, I go a bit further until not just his material needs are cared for, but even his emotional needs are cared for

because a lot of us in our program and I did this for many years, you know, we listen to people talk about their anguish and the pain that they're going through. They're there, love, you know, love, love, love, compassion and all that. And we're sort of meeting their emotional needs and it's the same as meeting their financial needs. Listen to what the big Book says about this. He clamors he cannot master alcohol until his material and I'll say emotional needs are cared for. Nonsense. The shortest sentence of the Big Book.

Some of us have taken very Hard Knocks to learn this truth.

Job or no job, wife or no wife, we simply do not stop drinking so long as we place dependence upon other people ahead of dependence on God. Burn the idea into the consciousness of every man that he can get well regardless of anyone. The only condition is that he trust in God and clean house. And from my point of view, I only give you my point of view and my understanding of this.

That means that when people phone me with a problem,

my answer is, well, what step are you on? What step will help you with this problem? I don't have answers to people, nor do I want to comfort them emotionally other than to say the answers to your problem will come to working the steps and I'll help you as much as I can work the steps. I have a young friend, a very close person

in our family who has another addiction,

who has for a number of years now known about the 12 step program, has even gone to a 12 step program to deal with it, but keeps wanting to talk about problems rather than solution and hasn't worked the steps.

And another friend of his has recently started to go to the anonymous program like Al Anon to deal with that. And as recently, instead of listening to the problems and spending hours and hours going to coffee shops with that person has learned to say, well, that's really difficult. What step are you on? What are you going to do about it? Have you spoken to your sponsor? Are you working the steps? Because as I understand it, that's the only way you're going to recover.

So it's, it's a kind of a tough love. And as I think I, I told you,

Doctor Bob, who was a St. in this program, told 6 to Ignatia, who used to run this Saint Thomas hospital at certain times, get this guy out of the out of the ward. He's not interested in working the steps.

The whole idea of someone becomes dependent upon me, they won't learn to become dependent upon God. So I don't want to be their God. I don't want to be the sponsor who gives them their answers. I don't want to be the person they turn to for their answers. I want them to turn only to a higher power and to understand that only through the higher power will they get any long lasting relief. So I think the big book is really tough on this

page. 100 are a few promises,

both right at the top. Both you and the man, the new man, must walk day by day in the path of spiritual progress. If you persist, remarkable things will happen. When we look back, we realize that the things which came to us when we put ourselves in God's hands were better than anything we could have planned. Follow the dictates of a higher power and you will presently live in a new and wonderful world, no matter what your present circumstances mean. Isn't that a sentence? No matter whether you're living in a lousy world, it'll be a wonderful world.

I have a good friend. This program. He's well, he's passed on. He's not in OA, but he was an A A and this is before this is and, and he, he was, he had made a lot of money in a particular business, was living really high and he made a, a, a financial, a business decision to franchise his company and it went belly up and he ended up going bankrupt. And I saw him but a year after he he went bankrupt

and he was a happy man. He had a copy of the AA12 and 12 in his pocket. He said this is my guide to life.

It has a lot of wonderful things about financial insecurity in it. So it's really good book, and in that respect,

I said, well, what are you doing now? He said. I work at the Health Sciences Center. I'm an orderly

and then he said, and pardon my language, but I'm just quoting him, he says. I cleaned shit off men and give them dignity.

I thought, you know, there's a way of looking at your new and wonderful world. He's giving people dignity. He does something that a lot of people will consider to be really awful, disgusting work. But he, because he was a recovered human being, was living in a new and wonderful world where he gave dignity to someone. So a great story about there's a church that's been built in New York. One of those, it's taken 100 years, it's been built by hand. It's one of those, it's a copy sort of those old great European churches.

And someone goes to that church and he sees someone working on a sculpture. What are you doing? Oh, I'm, I'm doing a sculpture of, you know, St. so and so. And he sees someone else who's, you know, working on stained glass. What are you doing? I'm making this beautiful picture in stained glass. And he sees someone sweeping up some debris, says, what are you doing? And she says, I'm building a cathedral. You know, that's this new and wonderful world, no matter what our present circumstances,

at the bottom, some more promises. Assuming we're spiritually fit, we can do all sorts of things Alcoholics are not supposed to do. People have said we must not go where liquor is served. We must not have in our homes. We must shun friends who drink. We must avoid moving pictures which show drinking scenes.

We must not go into bars. Our friends must hide their bottles if we go into their houses. We mustn't think of being reminded about alcohol at all. We mustn't go to meetings where food is discussed

because although it's not true for Winnipeg, it used to be true for Winnipeg. Years ago, we had meetings where you could not discuss food, you couldn't mention foods. And it's true somewhere in, in OAII know, I once spoke at a convention in Florida

and I I told my stories of my my goose, my eating my goose and my eating ice cream and things like that. And someone came up to me afterwards and said, you don't know what danger you put some of the people in the room in. They're going to go out and eat. You made it sound so good that they're going to go out and eat. You know, my reaction was, what does a big book say about this? You know, we meet this conditions every day and alcoholic who cannot meet them still has an alcoholic mind. There's something the matter with his spiritual status,

his only choice for sobriety would be someplace like the Greenland ice cap, and even there in Eskimo might turn up with a bottle of Scotch and ruin everything

they go on. In our rule, any scheme of combating alcoholism which proposes to shield the sick man from temptation is doomed to failure. If the alcoholic tries to shield himself, he may succeed for time, but he usually winds up with a bigger explosion than ever. We've tried these methods. These attempts to do the impossible have always failed. And you know, I, I, a friend of mine who actually came to speak here a couple years ago, Bob talked about going to a meeting where someone couldn't

from Toronto, someone couldn't meeting where you couldn't mention food. And someone spoke about, she said. And then I, I began to eat these,

these round balls that have kind of like a creamy texture.

And Bob talked about how he talked to two other people who were at that meeting right after the meeting. And they were all, what was she talking about? And, and, and they all had a different idea of what it was that she was talking about. And they went to her and asked her what it was. And she had a fourth. And she, it was something completely different with all three of them. I mean, you end up, you know, and imagine an, A, a meeting where someone says, and then I picked up a glass of

a brown fizzy liquid, you know,

I mean, how could I tell my stories of eating if I can't talk about goose?

So anyway, I, I just point out anyway, so Big Book goes on

and says, so our rule is not to avoid a place where there's drinking or eating if there's a legitimate reason for being there. That includes bars, nightclubs, dances, receptions, weddings, or even plain ordinary whoopie parties. You know, these are parties where people put cushions on the seats and they go, you know,

to person who's had experience with an alcoholic, this may seem like tempting Providence, but it isn't. You'll note that we made an important qualification. Therefore, ask yourself on each occasion, have I any good social, business or personal reason for going to this place?

I have found that to be the greatest guide in the world for me because sometimes I say I don't want to go to this party. I don't want to engage in these. And then I say to myself, why am I going? Oh, I'm going because my friend invited me and I'm paying some respect to my friend because my friend would like me to come. Or I'm going because my purpose in going here has a business purpose.