Bill L. from Dunellen, NJ and Mike L. from West Orange, NJ reading To Wives & The Family Afterward (pages 104 135) at a Big Book step workshop in West Orange, NJ

Hi everybody. My name is Bill. I'm an alcoholic. Hi, Bill.

Anything else?

I like women, that's what you mean.

We hope to cover tonight is

so why is the family afterwards and maybe even 2 employers, but I guess we'll see

with the two chapters

to wives and the family afterwards. What we're going to do is we're going to highlight principles that are mentioned in those two chapters.

Something that I believe

to why as a family afterwards the two employers contains a lot of is

first of all it gives a wife, family members and an employer tips on how to deal with Alcoholics. And if they are good enough for family members and employers, then they certainly would be good enough for us in dealing with people that are Alcoholics in our own lives, perhaps the people that we work with. So

not only do those 3 chapters contain principles to practice in all of our affairs,

but it also contains 12 step tips on how to work with people and how to deal with people that we're working with. So with the 1st 2 chapters, 2 wives in the family. Afterwards, we're going to highlight a few things as well as

all the principles that we were able to find in those two chapters, which actually we had done at a study one time. And when read back-to-back to back-to-back, it was a pretty powerful.

It kind of brought a quiet to the room because

when you read standards that are as high as what I've thrown out in these two chapters,

you start to reflect on whether you live in living up to them.

So we, we hope to do that again. And then in to employers,

we're going to highlight the 12 step tips that are mentioned there because there's a series of directions that it gives to an employer, which again we can use when working with people. So

that's kind of a plan. I think tentatively we'll just see how it goes.

Sometimes in working with people, I'll bring them to wives first,

and if you turn to page 108, you'll notice at the bottom in this chapter.

First of all, a few times in the chapter, it makes the statement we wives,

which is actually a kind of a funny statement because Bill wrote this.

But at the bottom of page 108, it begins by describing 4 levels of

alcoholism, or four stages of an alcoholic. Or four types of Alcoholics are actually, the first one is just a heavy drinker and then the last three are levels of alcoholism.

I sometimes like beginning when working with somebody by looking at these four descriptions because it gives the person an opportunity to see, you know, where did I stop in my downward progression of alcoholism? Where did which classification do I fit in? And

for me, I'm probably

in three, sometimes dipping into four. So maybe as we go through these, we'll begin with this and then we'll go back to the beginning of the chapter and touch upon the principles

and again, ask yourself where you would fit in this in these four categories. And again, the first one is, is a heavy drinker. And it says that, and I'll show you where you can tell that they're talking about a heavy drinker and it's definitely not an alcoholic. It says the problem they're talking about, you know, your husband because unfortunately, when it was written, there were basically mostly men, and

he refers to the alcoholic as the male and the family, so to speak, says the problem with which you struggle usually falls into four, one of four categories.

One, your husband may be only a heavy drinker, He's drinking may be constant, or may be heavy only on certain occasions. Perhaps he spends too much money for liquor.

It may be slow slowing them up mentally and physically, but he does not see it. Sometimes he is a source of embarrassment to you and his friends. He is positive he can handle his liquor, but he doesn't that it does him no harm that triggering his necessary in his business.

Now even Alcoholics use those excuses. But notice what it says in the next couple lines.

He would probably be insulted if he were to call him an alcoholic. This word was full of people like him. Some will moderate and stop all together and some will not. Of those who keep on, a good number will keep will become too Alcoholics after a while. So that second to last sentence there it says some will moderate and some stop altogether and some will not. But non alcoholic can moderate because they don't have the allergy where when they start drinking they don't they don't go too far and they can stop all together because they don't have the obsession and they can just on their own willpower

finally just say you know what, I don't feel like drinking anymore. And then they just stop.

So that's describing someone who's not an alcoholic, because an alcoholic has the allergy, which means they can't moderate and they have a mental obsession and a spiritual malady which ends up driving them back to drinking. So they can't stop altogether until they start on a a spiritual path.

And what a a suggest is the 12 steps to a spiritual path. If you're keeping track of the hook backs

on the bottom of 20 and top of 21, it describes the, the moderate drinker. And it says a lot, a lot of the same things in different ways

as what Bill just wrote, what Bill just read about husband number one. But it it uses two of the exact same words, which are stop and moderate

vinces. Husband #2 your husband is showing a lack of control for he is unable to stay on the water wagon even when he wants to. So that's describing the mental obsession that they can stop for perhaps brief periods of time and they're not able to stay stopped. He often gets entirely out of hand when drinking, which describes the allergy that once he starts, not only can he not predict how much he's going to drink, but he usually goes too far.

So that's describing an alcoholic. He admits this is true, but it's positive that he will do better, which again is part of the obsession that that this time it's going to be different.

He has begun to try, with or without your cooperation, various means of moderating or staying dry. Maybe he is beginning to lose his friends. His business may suffer somewhat. He is worried at times and is becoming aware that he cannot drink like other people. He sometimes drinks in the morning and through the day also to hold his nervousness in check. He was remorseful after after serious drinking bouts and tells you he wants to stop. But when he gets over the spree, he begins to think once more how he can drink moderately next time. So

that's sort of the insanity that we keep going back into it thinking that this time it's going to be different. We think this person is in danger. These are the earmarks of a real alcoholic. Perhaps he can still attend to business fairly well. So maybe he's still a functional alcohol alcoholic nonetheless. He has. But no, he has by no means ruined everything. So he he might still have a car and a watch on his wrist and a job and a wife at home.

As we say amongst our among ourselves, he wants to want to stop.

Now here's husband #3 this husband has gone much further than husband number two, though once like #2 he became worse. So this is sort of a deeper level.

His family has slipped away, his home is near a wreck and he cannot hold a position. Maybe the doctor has been called in and the weary round of sanitariums and hospitals has begun. And again, this is sort of describing me because I had gone to two rehabs myself

and, you know, friends and family and and wives started slowly disappearing.

They were hiding.

He admits he cannot drink like other people, but he does not see why he hasn't. Nobody's explained to him what's the deal here? He claims to the notion that he will yet find a way to do so. And again there's the insanity that he'll figure it out, and this time it's going to be different. He may have come to the point where he desperately wants to stop but cannot. And and that's describing powerlessness. He wants to stop all these drinking so he doesn't go too far, and he wants to stop all these stops instead of going back to it.

His case presents additional questions which we shall try to answer for you.

You can be quite hopeful of a situation like this. So it's describing somebody who wants to stop. They want to stop, and they just haven't found a way to do so.

And again, when this book was written, it was assumed that it was going to go out to a lot of people that didn't have a A in their town. And perhaps this book was the first glimpse of hope for somebody who wanted to stop and couldn't seem to find a way up to this point. Then here's husband #4 and this is a, this is a low bottom. You may have a husband of whom you completely despair. He has been placed in one sanitarium after another. He is violent or appears definitely

insane when drunk, so again, he has the allergy. He always goes too far. He usually goes too far when he once he starts drinking. Sometimes he drinks on the way home from the hospital

and there's the obsession in the spirituality. And

that was what my experience was in my first rehab. There was an outpatient rehab. So I just went there three nights a week, Monday, Wednesday and Friday. And it was it was a joke. There were times that I was junk after I left there. And usually while I was there, I was thinking about where I was going in the city to get the kind of things that I wanted to go get. And also what's kind of interesting is, is that

every time they took a, a urine test, I always failed

every single time they took a urine test when I was in that place. And then finally just said, listen, you know, this is a joke. You don't want to stop.

And it was a joke. I mean, you know, we'd sit in the back and laugh at the films. And

perhaps he has had delirium tremens. The DTS doctors may shake their heads and advise you to have them committed. Maybe you have already been obliged to put him away. This picture may not be as dark as it looks. Again, it's it's describing somebody who's desperate. And somebody who's desperate, when given a real answer, usually seizes that answer.

Many of our husbands were just as far gone, yet they got well. So, you know,

again, that's painting a pretty extreme picture. And usually in most cases, you know, the wife or whoever is part of the family just assumes that, you know, this person's hopeless. Nothing can be done for them. Yet when they're given a real answer that has depth and weight and is put in a fellowship of people who have similar experiences that he's currently having in their past, which they no longer have, but perhaps that person can be reached. And again,

since the Paris and since they're desperate, that's usually the best position to be in to find,

to be open minded enough to consider another way besides their own.

So that describes the four levels that this chapter lays out. And again, for those of us that are Alcoholics, ask yourself sort of where were you in there? Also, something that I like sharing with people, if you fit in category #4 as an alcoholic,

since we had a real passion and a real

but going to any alliance kind of attitude in getting and drinking. That we need to have the same attitude in dealing with recovery. That if our alcoholism was practiced in an extreme way, our recovery needs to be practicing in the extreme way. Now, I'm not suggesting that, you know, some people need to do less than other people need to do. I believe that we need to do all this in order to bring about useful, happy, contented

sobriety. But I do know some people that,

you know, perhaps only go to two or three meetings a week. They've worked the steps, they work with people. And somehow that wasn't necessarily enough. They needed to work with more people that needed to pursue spirituality more strongly. They needed to go to more meetings perhaps than some other people needed to go to. And what I've seen, and in my own experience, being somebody who was pretty extreme in the way that I partied

in pursuing God, I needed to be pretty extreme in order to reach a point where I really was just kind of

on a comfortable place moving forward and growing. I have to do it in an extreme way,

which is why I really get off on doing things like this and, and trying to help people. And, you know, this weekend's 4th of July, everybody's going to enjoy themselves. I'm going down to Philadelphia to try to 12 steps a woman who's dying. This is something that I truly enjoy. And then I truly get off on and there's, there's people that I know that wouldn't even consider doing that. And, and that's OK. This is just something I love doing. And maybe they don't have to do all that, but I kind of feel that I do

personally. And for me, this is kind of what I feel my heart leading me to do. And and you know, I've heard it said that. And I'm not suggesting that everybody needs to take this extreme attitude. But, you know, in turning my room, my life over to a higher power, how I see it is that my life is no longer my own, but from being guided by higher power to go do something that's perhaps unselfish and that makes it seem like I have no life in that.

You know, a large part of what I do is trying to help other people.

But that's my way of following my heart and doing what I feel my higher power wants me to do. And I'm not necessarily saying everybody needs to do that, but I don't see my life as my own. So that I try to help others. And and I think that I've I've reached some really incredibly wonderful benefits because of it.

The way that in addition to

using these four different type of diagnosis, if you will, on myself,

I also like to use it as a 12 stepping tool to when I work one-on-one with others.

At this point, we're going to take

sort of a shift in the book. The past couple weeks we've been talking about the first part, excuse me, the second part of the 12 step, which is we tried to carry this message to other Alcoholics.

We broke up Chapter 7 working with others into two parts, the first second, the first visit and the second visit. And then we kind of gave more 12 stepping tips with

the couple pages that that Bill just brought us through.

We're going to kind of now shift to the what I call the third part of the 12 step, which is practicing these principles and all our affairs. And if we have time, we'll go back to to employers and shift back again to more 12 step tips, so to speak.

We're just closing the margin and increase the

well, that's the way I originally did it. You changed it, I changed it. Let's pick it up with page 111 and we're going to kind of bullet right through these. You want me to do the ones in this chapter and you do family afterwards. OK. So it might be easier just to follow along on the sheet

what you want to like market in your book too. It's pretty cool. You know, if we don't have a sheet with us, we can still point out where they are as we go through the book. As a matter of fact, I want to do that because I've never marked it in my book.

So if I'm going too fast, just let me know. Just a way,

page 111, paragraph one. It's actually the very first line. The first principle of success is that you should never be angry. Now again, these are these are principles that we can practice in all our affairs. I can ask myself, am I practicing these principles in the home and my practicing these principles on the job? Am I doing this

within my AA group? Am I doing doing this in not within the home but also within the family that I may not see every day? You know, how, how's that stuff going on?

Am I practicing these principles with my creditors? You know, on and on and on, stuff like that. So the first principle of success is that you should never be angry. Something that I also do, which is kind of interesting is to talk to people and say, as we go through these principles, ask yourself if you think these principles are important or that you need to be practicing these principles. And if some of them you feel that you don't need to or they're not important. But I'd like to suggest is that you talk to that

you talk to a sponsor or someone who's a spiritual advisor or people in your network that are close to you about perhaps why you feel some of these aren't important. Because

in some cases, these principles are a life or death situation that if I, if I don't try to move toward living this way, moving toward being miserable on the inside, which inevitably leads to drinking again. Now notice it says that you should never be angry.

It does not say you should never get angry or that you're never going to get angry. There's a difference between getting angry and being angry. I can get angry and do a quick tense step on it and do the tools that that we've been taught to do in the 10th step and, and spot it and ask God to remove it and discuss it with somebody else

and make amends if I've harmed anyone and, and turn and direct my thinking to someone I can help.

Boom. With possibly within just a couple minutes, that anger can dissipate. What this is talking about is that we should never be angry. Like, like I used to go throughout my day just with a constant chip on my shoulders running down everybody in my path. So it might be a little semantical there, but I think there's a genuine difference.

OK, if you're keeping track in that very same paragraph, the last sentence, patience and good temper are most necessary

good principles. Patience and good temper. Good temper. Meaning not that I have a good angry temper, but a good even keel temper. I always had a good temper. I had a bad temper actually.

Even the sentence before that kind of ties in those first two principles with even though your husband becomes unbearable and you have to leave him temporarily, you should, if you can go without rancor, which means bitterness. So that's something that we practice as well. And then it says patients a good temper or most necessary, which kind of is the set of, you know, the the last part of that next paragraph. Our next thought is is that you should never tell him what he must do.

That's a principle that can be practiced within the home, with your spouse,

anywhere for that matter. But I also think it's a principle we try to practice an A, A we don't. We don't tell people what they must do.

We try to share with them our own experience and maybe go about it, go about it the more easier and gentler way and suggest what they should do.

But you know, there's no dictatorship in NAA and, and

you know, we, we don't tell people what they must do, although maybe sometimes we'd like to.

Not that I've ever had that experience. Next paragraph,

see if I can find it for you.

OK, it's actually the third paragraph, last sentence and that third paragraph Do not set your heart on reforming. I'll just read the whole sentence. Do not set your heart on reforming your husband, whether he be a newly sober, drunk or

presently maybe,

you know, it's not just the husband, it's the spouse or anybody for that matter. You may be unable to do so no matter how hard you try. You know, and I think this is a real great place where where Al Anon comes in comes into play because they they teach stuff like that

4th paragraph,

second sentence. Your husband may come to appreciate your reasonableness and patience,

two more good principles. Patience has already been mentioned, but reasonableness, you know, I was when when I was drinking and and before, before being changed spiritually, I was never reasonable. I was always unreasonable.

Matter of fact, people would say things to me like Mike, we just can't reason with you.

Same paragraph. Be sure you are not critical during such a discussion.

Being not critical, that's always a good principle to follow.

Attempt instead to put yourself and his or her place.

And quite often I, I try to do that,

you know, especially when I'm working with someone in a, a,

there's this whole thing in AAA about keep your memory green. And you know, I used to think that was a bunch of hogwash, but it's very effective when you're working with a new person because sometimes having been through the steps a few times, having a spiritual practice,

working, working with people, doing stuff like this, being really active, happy, joyous and free, sometimes it's very easy for me to forget what it's like to be two weeks sober.

So what I often try to do is put myself in the other man's shoes and say and, and just step back and listen to myself for a couple minutes and say, you know, if I was two weeks sober, would I be able to understand what the hell I'm talking about? And plenty of times I'll catch myself and, and say, well, let me back up. But, you know, and that's where

the where the principal will keep it simple comes into play for me.

But that's also very effective

within the home with your spouse or or with someone on the job

or for anywhere. And that, for that matter, put yourself in the other person's place.

Let him or her see that you want to be helpful rather than critical.

Page 113.

First paragraph

1-2, Third sentence.

Avoid urging them to follow our program,

you know, especially if you, if your spouse is an alcoholic or, or in a 12 step fellowship,

if you would only work the steps like I do, we wouldn't have these problems. You know, stuff like that. I think they're talking about

second paragraph.

It's like in the middle of that paragraph. Again, you should not crowd him.

It's quite often that, that my spouse just needs some space, you know, and, and I've learned,

I've learned over past couple of years that we've been married to just not crowd her and give her the space she needs. And

and she's kind enough where she does the exact same thing for me.

But what we try to do with each other even before it gets to that point, before we have to

because I don't know about anybody else, but at least in our relationship, mind reading skills don't always function properly. So what I try to do is if I'm just having a rough day or if I'm a little edgy or, or I just feel like being by myself, maybe

I try to tell Kathy beforehand, you know, this is how I'm feeling and it's nothing against you. You haven't done anything wrong. I'm just a little off kilter today. And, and that helps us tremendously because it's, it's letting the other person know what they're in store for. It's kind of, you know, it's like a little warning

and it's letting them know that they didn't do anything wrong. Because I don't know about you guys, but for some reason I have this interpretation mechanism

where whenever there's something wrong with my spouse or a person that I'm close to,

quite often I'll interpret that to mean there's something wrong with me and and I did something to them. And sometimes that's true, but it's not true all the time.

So how I got that out of you should not crowd them,

we'll never know. Page 115.

That's just a little paragraph, the third sentence. But you must be on guard not to embarrass or harm.

That's definitely a good principle. We we don't.

We want to shy away from embarrassing anyone.

Yeah, I think Doctor Bob said at one time that the the most dangerous, and I might be misquoting, but he said it's something like this. The most dangerous organ in the human body is the tongue.

And sometimes without even thinking, I can, I can say a comment and you know, I think it's funny or I think it's cute and I, I end up embarrassing the other person, even though that was not my initial

intention, but it ends up happening. So again, the the 10th and 11th step principles can practices can come into play here where if we're watching our thought life

and if we can kind of ask ourselves before we just blurt out a statement, how's this going to affect the other person? And you know, and also take a look at the at the four absolutes.

We we we run a lesser chance of embarrassing other people, including ourselves for that matter.

3rd paragraph. It is best not to take sides in any argument.

Let's see 115.

Same principle applies in dealing with the children. Unless they actually need protection from their father, it is best not to take sides in any argument he has with them while drinking. And

I just wanted to read that entire sentence because I was pretty sure that that it had something that something to do with that. I don't have any children, so I, I can't offer any experience on that, but I do have pets. So I think that applies.

Use your energies to promote a better understanding all around. You know, sounds like a piece of the Saint Francis prayer to understand rather than under to be understood.

Page 116,

what we call paragraph 0

on the very top

third line down.

But be careful not to be resentful dot dot dot.

Some of the things on the sheet we, we just

either just put a half a sentence or, or we didn't include the whole sentence because we're, we're just trying to, to spill out principles.

So be careful not to be resentful again, there may be times where we're going to get angry, but that that anger doesn't have to carry over into resentment. Remember what a resentment is one one of the things a resentment is is replaying old tapes in my head.

3rd paragraph

No, not that table. That's what he's taking me

now. We try to put spiritual principles to work in every department of our lives and I I think that just covers this whole sheet. It covers

both of these chapters. Matter of fact, I think it covers the entire text portion of the big book. We now try to put spiritual principles to work in every department of our lives. And I think the keyword there is now,

I think another keyword is try because we're definitely not going to do it perfectly.

Page 117, paragraph 2

on the sheet, it, uh,

it breaks it up a little bit. I'll just, I'll read from the book. The faith and sincerity of both you and your husband will be put to the test. These workouts should be regarded as part of your education for thus you will be learning to live. And on the sheet it says faith and sincerity should be regarded as part as your as part of your education. For this you will be learning to live.

The key principles there are faith and sincerity.

3rd paragraph on that page. Just be careful not to disagree in a resentful or critical spirit. Notice it doesn't say just be careful not to disagree, period. Have a nice day. It says that we're not to disagree or we should be careful not to disagree in a resentful or critical critical spirit. Quite often I disagree with people, and that's OK.

You know, we, each of each and everyone of us are entitled to our own opinions. Each and every one of us are entitled to our own experiences. And my, my experiences aren't necessarily going to be the same as your experiences. And there's going to be some differences.

The important thing is that

I don't try to jam my opinions and my experiences down someone's throat

and that, umm,

and that just because I disagree with you doesn't mean that you're not right, doesn't mean that you're not right for you. You're just not right for me. And I can just say something like all my experience is a little different, but I definitely respect your, your experience and rock on it.

Something I love saying to people too, that seems to diffuse situations that people seem to kind of want to get into an argument is the statement, you know, I, I respect your opinion, but I just see it differently than you do.

And somehow that's put an end to many arguments that it seemed like it was going to go there. But you've let them know that you respect and you're considering what they have to say and that you just see it differently than they do. You know, it's sort of like saying, you know, you like blue and I like red.

Doesn't mean I'm not right and I'm not wrong and you're not right and you're not wrong. That's right for you. And what's right for me is is, you know, the other color.

Also, you'll notice Mike just did that principle of just be careful not to disagree in a resentful and critical spirit. You'll notice at the beginning of that paragraph, it does the lead into that. It says some of the snags you will encounter irritation, hurt feelings and resentments. Your husband will sometimes be unreasonable and you will want to criticize. So there's a little bit going on here leading into it. And it's very much in the 11th step when it talks about, you know, when agitated Adolfo, we pause and wait for the right action that we need to be inventory.

And we find ourselves getting ready to lash out for lack of a better expression, because that's my last name. Lash

that, you know, we need to pause and try to calm ourselves before we respond. We should, we should, we shouldn't react out of that spirit. We should respond after thinking it through appropriately. Perhaps a lot calmer than how we went into the situation.

OK, I'm going to try speeding up a little bit. Page 118, paragraph 2.

123 looks like the 4th sentence. Patience, tolerance, understanding and love are the watchwords.

Show the other person these things in yourself and they will be reflected back to you from them.

This can also be put into a prayer. Dear God, please show me how to have patience, tolerance, understanding, and love in every situation I encounter throughout the day.

Show them that these things

show, show them these things in yourself and they will be reflected back to you from them. And that's that whole

spiritual mirror thing, you know, it's the whole

theory of reciprocity. I think that's the right word.

What I put into the world, I, I, I so shall get back. I reap what I sow, you know? So if I if I show another person patience, tolerance, understanding and love, and I also add kindliness to that, chances are I'm going to get that same stuff back,

same paragraph. Live and let live is the rule. And that happens to be one of the slogans that we see on our meeting room walls

paragraph. If both show a willingness to remedy your own defects, there will be little need to criticize each other. A willingness to remedy your your own defects.

That's probably where

this line about

we need to be working our own program and staying out of each other's program. And I think somewhere along the line we've taken that to extremes to mean that, you know, I, I can't discuss anything about the program to my spouse. And I think that's just absolutely ridiculous. Some of the greatest revelations I've had in in step work has been with my wife.

But what it's saying is not to make the mistake that I did about four or five years ago and try to

at that time Kathy and I were engaged and don't make the same mistake I did and try to drag your spouse through a four column inventory because she's pissed off at you. That's usually not a good idea. She tell you that one Deb?

Okay,

that's the relating laugh.

OK, page 119

fourth line down.

When resentful thoughts come, try to pause and count your blessings,

Bill. Just mention it

about step 11. Pause when an agitator doubtful or resentful or whatever. Second paragraph

and that's towards the bottom of the page, I believe.

Third line up. If you cooperate rather than complain, you'll find that his excess enthusiasm will tone down. I think we need to back up a little bit. Let's read that whole paragraph. It is probably true that you and your husband have been living too much alone for drinking many time isolates the wife of an alcoholic or the spouse of an alcoholic. Therefore, you probably need

fresh interest and great 'cause to live

for as much as your spouse. If you cooperate rather than complain, you will find that his or her excess enthusiasm will tone down. They're talking about the enthusiasm that we get for apple synonyms.

Both of you will awaken to a new sense of responsibility for others. You as well as your spouse ought to think of what you can put into life instead of how much you can take out of it.

Inevitably, your lives will be fuller for doing so. You will lose the old life to find one much better.

So in actuality, I just read a couple more off the page just by reading that one paragraph. So if you're following along on the sheet, let's go to number 25,

the first paragraph of page 120.

It's towards the end of the paragraph, second and last sentence. You need not remind him of his spiritual deficiency. Whoops. He will know of it.

I really don't think I need to comment comment much on that one. I mean that that's that's just kind of cut and dry and you'll notice where that comes from. For me, this is one of the an important part of the book. It's describing what we're supposed to do it for your relapse. It says earlier in that paragraph that was infinitely better, that we have no relapse at all. As has been true with many of our people, it is by no means a bad thing. In some cases, your husband will see at once that he must redouble his spiritual activities that he expects to survive.

So it's saying there that if we relapse, we need to redouble our spiritual activities. We need to perhaps increase how many meetings we're going to. We need to

go further along with the steps and more thoroughly, and we need to be perhaps working with more people and being more unselfish.

Next sentence, cheer them up and ask how you can be still more helpful.

Great principle to to practice in the home, especially when when your spouse or your children or or your dog or whoever is just having a bad day. Try your try your best to to cheer them up and ask how you can be more helpful. And quite often the other person will say, well, you know, I just kind of want to be left alone. OK, nothing wrong with that

3rd paragraph.

I don't know where it is. Thanks. All the way at the bottom, Larry says

if a repetition is to be prevented, place the problem along with everything else in God's hands.

A few lines up from there it says if he gets drunk, don't blame yourself. God has either removed your husband's liquor problem or he has not. If not, it had better be found out right away. Then you and your husband can get right down to the to fundamentals. If a repetition is to be prevented, place, place the problem along with everything else in God's hands.

That can also be a great principle, a great tool for a sponsor

and and then 122 family afterwards.

And I think what it says the family afterwards, it's after the person has started on a spiritual path, after he's starting to live in the solution. And now it's starting to talk about how to deal with the family situation.

6 lines now from the topic says all members of the family should meet upon a common ground of tolerance, understanding and love. Again, they've they've repeated those a few times. I believe

it talks about patients intolerance. So others is our code earlier

then paragraph three on page 123

it says

at the end of the first sentence there the third paragraph it says but he should not be reproached which means criticized. So that's a principle that we can practice.

Then in 124, in paragraph one, it talks about we grow. We grow by our willingness to face and rectify errors and convert them into assets.

I guess that's about halfway into the paragraph.

That's another one of those

mirror things that somehow I've seen that in the home, as soon as I start working on myself, all of a sudden everything just changes about the other person. Really have to do much of anything.

Second paragraph, cling to the foot that in guides here,

he says it.

That's actually the seventh time in this chapter that he mentions that our past, even if we've had a low bottom, is one of the most important things that we possess today. Because if a person has an extremely low bottom, first of all, that's that much more freedom than they can experience because it's that much more that they can overcome by using spiritual principles and to move on and to change and to transform. But also the lower a person's bottom is, that's more people that they can reach by their message

that a person has a high bottom perhaps can't relate to a person has a low bottom and doesn't carry a message. I might be able to reach somebody with an extreme story, but somebody else with a low bottom and it has an extreme story to reach someone else that has a low bottom and an extreme story. So sometimes just, you know, some people look at somebody has a low bottom as a bad thing.

But what the book talks about, and like I said in this chapter alone, imagines it seven times, that our past can be the greatest asset that we can have, not only because it's more than we can overcome in ourselves, but that's more people that we can touch,

that we can affect by, you know, our story and by overcoming the things that we've overcome in our lives.

Page 125. First paragraph,

last sentence. We do talk about each other a great deal, but we we almost invariably are almost always temper such a top of the spirit of love and tolerance.

Next paragraph. Another principle we observe carefully is that we do not relate intimate experiences of another person unless we are sure that they would approve. Now there's a very delicate line there.

It was a next paragraph

says. It's the first sentence of the next paragraph,

page 127

few lines.

It's talking about the family should be thankful that they are sober and able to be of this world once more. Instead of focusing on some of the problems they're experiencing today, which are probably a lot less harsh than before that maybe we can be great. Instead of looking at the problems that exist today, we can be grateful that there's been progress and that we're not living in the same problems that we had in the past.