Bill L. from Dunellen, NJ and Mike L. from West Orange, NJ reading Working with Others (pages 96 103) at a Big Book step workshop in West Orange, NJ

Hi everyone, my name is Mike and I am an alcoholic. Hey, Mike.
Good. Good to be back here this week and good to see some faces that I haven't seen in a couple weeks.
For the past three plus months we have covered the 1st 11 steps as outlined in the big book Alcoholics Anonymous. This evening we will begin our 12th step,
which is actually covered in
11, excuse me, 5 chapters.
12 step is outlined in Chapter 7 through 11. And I didn't know that for a long time. I thought that the only place in the big book that the 12th step was described was in Chapter 7, because that's where it talks about making a 12 step call.
And finally, a couple years ago someone pointed out to me
what I used to non affectionately refer to as those chapters. But someone pointed out to me and got it through my thick head that those chapters being 8910 and 11:00,
include a lot of the principles of our program and of our steps.
So instead of referring to them as those chapters today, I refer to the chapters that come after Chapter 7 as the practice these principles chapter because I believe there's a lot of good information in there. And whenever I do something like this, whether it be in my home or in a environment like this or a weekend or, or
or what have you. And I'm sure if Bill was here, he would agree that we also try to cover as much information
in the practice of principle chapters as we possibly can. Sometimes because a lack of time, it's difficult, but we'll try to do a pretty good job with that over the next couple weeks.
The packet for this evening.
There's 8 pages.
First page is a really good article on old fashioned 12 stepping.
Second page
is entitled Tips on making 12 step calls and the first article actually referenced these tips so the two the 2GO hand in hand.
Page 3 is the 12 steps of a sponsor which I would like to actually read in a minute.
Next page is the 12 rewards.
It was written by a gentleman who was in prison. So and lately
correction work and institutional work has has been on my heart. So that's definitely a direction that that I'm getting pulled in. And the last
2-4 pages
is entitled 1944, A Sponsor Sponsorship Pamphlet, and it was written by Clarence Snyder, who was the founder of A A in Cleveland and who was about the 40th person sponsored by Doctor Bob
and Bill. And I love Clarence so much because he's probably the least talked about character, if you will, in Alcoholics Anonymous, probably because of his abrasiveness and his
uncanny ability that just call it like, you saw it, you know, but he pulled no punches. And, and I think it was for that reason and a couple other reasons that a A in Cleveland saw a 93% success rate in the early days of Alcoholics Anonymous,
while other areas of that a A was in didn't have that high of a success rate.
But Clarence's group and a lot of other groups and and Cleveland and the Akron area contributed to our original
50 to 75% success rate, which we talked about earlier on in the book,
12 steps of a sponsor. And I like these.
One, I will not help you stay and wallow in limbo. 2, I will help you grow to become more productive by your own definition. Three, I will help you to become more autonomous, more loving of yourself, more free to continue becoming the authority of your own living. For I cannot give you dreams or fix you up, simply because I cannot.
Five I cannot give you growth or grow for you. You must grow for yourself
by facing reality, grim as it may seem at times. Six, I cannot take away your loneliness or pain. 7 I cannot sense your world for you, evaluate your goals, or tell you what is best for you in your world. You have your own world. Eight, I cannot convince you of the crucial choice of choosing the scary uncertainty of growing over the safe misery of not growing.
Nine, I want to be with you and know you as a rich and growing friend, yet I cannot get close to you when you choose not to grow.
10 when I begin to care for you out of pity, when I begin to lose trust in you, then I am toxic, bad and inhibiting for you. 11 You must know my help is conditional. I will be with you, hang in there with you, as long as I continue to get even the slightest hints that you are trying to grow. And 12:00 If you cannot, if you can, if you can accept all this, then perhaps we can help each other to become what God meant for us
mature adults, leaving childness forever to little children.
And I, I like the spirit of where that comes from
because a lot of it hooks into what we're going to read over this evening.
It particularly speaks to page 96 that warns us,
you know, if we try to help one person
too long, we're going to that that doesn't want to be helped. We're going to spoil our opportunity to, to carry a beneficial message to someone else who really wants and needs to help. So it warns us not to not to waste too much time on a person who just doesn't want the message that Alcoholics Anonymous has to offer.
If you want to turn the page 89. And before I get into reading for this evening, the 12 step says
having had a spiritual awakening. And
in the way the step was originally written, it said having had a spiritual experience
as the result of these steps. We tried to carry this message to Alcoholics and to practice these principles in all our affairs. So we like to take a look at the 12th step in three parts.
Having had a spiritual awakening,
carrying this message
and practicing these principles in all our affairs.
So this chapter does not speak to
having had a spiritual awakening, nor does it speak to practicing these principles in all our affairs, but it does give clear cut, precise and specific directions on how to carry this message.
Now, if the first part of the 12 step says
having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, that means all the work that we've done that that has preceded the 12th step and this 7th chapter
will produce a revenue revolutionary spiritual experience or a spiritual awakening. Another words. The first nine steps have changed me,
and as the result of that, I've had a spiritual awakening and now I'm able to go out and bring that message to my fellow brother and sister.
And it's real simple.
The question often comes up well, how do I know when I'm ready to sponsor someone? How do I know when I'm ready to
speak or how do I know when I'm ready to do this or do that? And Alcoholics Anonymous
and the question for me is become,
I know when I'm ready to do those things when I've had the spiritual awakening and I've had the spiritual awakening as the result of the 1st 11 steps. And it's, it's no more. It's not complicated. It's as simple as that.
So the second part of
of the 12 step is
carrying this message to other Alcoholics
and we'll start on page 89, Chapter 7, Working with others.
Practical experience shows that nothing will so much ensure immunity from drinking as intensive work with other Alcoholics. It works when other activities fail. This is our 12th suggestion. Carry this message to Other Alcoholics.
The group that meets here on on Thursday evenings.
When we formed the group, we decided to name it Carry This Message.
Quite often you'll hear people refer to Carry the Message. I've even seen some groups called the Carry this the Carry the Message group. And that's not what it's OK to call it that. I don't care,
but this book says carry this message for the simple reason that they're referring to this message in the book,
this message that was generated to us through the pages that we've just gone through of the book and we'll continue to go through up until 164. This is the message of Alcoholics Anonymous. I'm not to carry my message in an A a meaning because quite frankly, for a long time, my message kept me drunk and my my message
may may cause you to get drunk. So I'm very clear on on what message I'm to carry in in a a,
it says you can help when no one else can. And man, that that's a great promise because I wasn't being helpful to anybody when I got here.
You can help when no one else can. I mean, what an incredible promise. You can secure their confidence when others fail. So why is it I can help other Alcoholics when no one, no one else can? Why is it I can secure their confidence? I can lift them up When other people can't do that, how can I? How come I can do that? How come you guys can do that?
Because
of the identification factor, it told us early on in the book. One alcoholic working with another alcoholic, sharing experience, strength and hope.
And that's the common bond we have.
Because I suffer from, because we all suffer from the same illness, we can be uniquely beneficial to each other.
Psychiatrists could never help me.
My father could never help me. Non Alcoholics. They could help me with other areas of my life, but quite frankly, I was never willing to listen to him anyway.
But when I came there, hey, Alcoholics were able to help me because I related, I identified
we have this, we had the same common problem. And I was able to see that they took certain actions that brought about results in their lives and relieved them of their alcoholism. And I saw that and I said, well, if that can work for them, it can work for me. But as long as a person who was different from me was
telling me what to do, I could never get it. I just never understood it
and anyway, Alcoholics Anonymous never told me what to do. You guys shared with me what you did and therefore I was able to do what you did and apply to my life. And now I have my own experience.
It tells us to remember that they are very ill. You know, when I'm working with a newcomer, I got to remember that they are just like I was when I initially came into the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous. So I got to put myself in their shoes. And it's going to tell me that later on. So remember, they are very ill,
and this is a great set of promises. Life will take on a new meaning. To watch people recover, to see them help others, to watch loneliness vanish, to see a fellowship grow up about you, to have a host of friends. This is an experience you must not miss. We know you will not want to miss it. Frequent contact with newcomers and with each other is the bright spot of our lives.
Goes on to say perhaps you are not acquainted with any drinkers who want to recover and I don't know if that necessarily applies today unless
you're on the Greenland ice cap or something. But
since you can easily find some by asking a few doctors, minister, priests or hospitals. And when this book was written in the in or published rather in 1939, they had to put these things in here because there really was there, there wasn't an established fellowship. So we had to go out and search out other drunks who wanted to recover. And in many cases, if if you read some of the history literature,
the early pioneers of a A searched out some drunks that didn't want to recover and had absolutely no interest in quitting drinking
and did stuff like pulling them off of bar stools and and crazy stuff like that.
So we don't.
We don't necessarily. We can usually find enough Alcoholics to work with right in our very own fellowship. But guess what? There is a still need. There still is a need to go to these doctors, ministers, priests or hospitals for the simple reason that Alcoholics Anonymous has something called committees.
And anyone who's familiar with General Services knows about the the public information committee, the correctional institution committee, the treatment facilities committee, and on and on and on. And this is where we communicate with the doctors, the ministers, the priests and hospitals. And pretty much today
the extent that the extent of communication that that we have with with these individuals
is more of an informative type pitch that we are Alcoholics Anonymous. If members of your clergy or your patients or
what have you have a drinking problem and then and they would like to get help, then we're Alcoholics Anonymous.
We're here to help
and and quite often a lot of good 12 step calls come through these contacts.
It says these doctors, ministers, priests or hospitals will be only too glad to assist you. Here's a nice warning and all throughout this chapter, and I guess to give you a little sneak peek of next week. Next week we'll have a handout in title 12 step tips and what Bill and I did
fall of last year. We literally went back through the beginning of the book all the way to 164
and we pulled out. We exerted all the references, any statement or paragraph that we felt was a 12 step tip towards sponsorship or making 12 step calls or anything that promote it, helping an alcoholic. And I tell you that suckers. 20 pages long,
10 pages front and back. It's incredible
how many references. I think we came up with over 300 and I'm sure there's more in there.
So this year and and, and we'll have that next week.
So this statement here don't start out as an evangelist or a reformer. That's one of the tips. So as I go through this chapter, I'm going to focus on some of the twips. The The twips
twits tips on making a 12 step call or helping other alcohol,
it says. Unfortunately, a lot of prejudice exists
and that's true.
You will be handicapped if you arouse prejudice. Ministers and doctors are competent and you can learn much from them if you wish. But it happens that because of your own drinking experience, you can be uniquely useful to other Alcoholics, as I said before. So cooperate, never criticize to be helpful as our only only aim. Again, that's another guide, another 12 step tip.
Top of page 90
When you discover a prospect for Alcoholics Anonymous, find out all you can about him. If he does not want to stop drinking, don't waste your time trying to persuade him or her. You may spoil a later opportunity.
So
a young lady or a gentleman walks into one of our meetings and
they're here just checking out the scenery.
They reek of alcohol
and we speak to the person and they tell us that
you know the the court systems on my back or wifey poos on my back and the family and on and on and on. But I really don't think I have a problem. And quite honestly, I don't want to quit drinking.
Well, you're welcome to come to our fellowship, but until you want to quit drinking, there's we're not really going to be of any use to you.
So that's what this speaks to you. That's what this speaks to. Don't waste your time in trying to persuade a person that that doesn't want to quit drinking. I did that in in my early years of 12 stepping and it says you may spoil a later opportunity. You know, with my so-called
evangelical enthusiasm, I'm sure I scared off a lot of people, you know, and hopefully they're they're able to go to other people that that got the help.
And I also like to think that I have tamed down somewhat since. So
this advice is given for his family. Also, they should be patient, realizing they are dealing with a sick person.
If there is any indication that he wants to stop,
have a good talk with the person most interested in him, usually his wife. Get an idea of his behavior, problems, background, the seriousness of his condition, and his religious leanings. You need this information to put yourself in his place to see how you would like him to approach you if the tables were turned. So the same guy comes back in six months.
This time
his problems aren't because of wifey poo. His problems aren't because of the courts. His problems aren't because of this, this, or that. He's licked from booze.
He's ready. He's in a state of surrender now. We got something to talk about.
Now I'm able to carry a beneficial message to this person
and this is what I can do. I can,
I can get an, I can get some information on his background, you know, I can tell him my story and it's going to tell us that in a, in a couple minutes, I can get an idea of the seriousness of his condition. You know, is this guy a periodic? Is he the type alcoholic that that'll go on a binge for a week or so and then he's able to stay home and drive for a couple months?
Or is this guy just, he's always drinking, he can't stop drinking,
his physical allergy for alcohol and his mental obsession is that strong where he just, he stays in the grips of, of, of alcohol and alcoholism. You know,
and we like to get this information to kind of gauge how we're going to work with this person. The way I work with people today is a lot different than the way I used to. I used to, I used to put myself in a little box and everyone I worked with would have to fit in that box. And if you didn't respond to what I had to offer, then maybe you should go see someone else. And I simply don't think that way today because of the experiences I've had.
I think everybody's different
and me personally, I need to be flexible enough to be able to be just as effective with the New York Stock broker or the Valerie Bunk.
It doesn't matter where we come from, the illness, the disease is all the same. And I just go with my intuition today as far as how do I need to pursue with someone? Do I need to take them through the first nine steps? Like real quick,
Bill and I have been known to take people through the first eight steps in a matter of just the weekend.
I've also taken people through the 1st 8 steps
in a couple or few months and I gauge that by intuition and over the days and the weeks I'm able to get a feel for where they're at and what they need. How dare I cram something down their throat that they just don't need, You know?
Why am I going to take someone through the process
quickly that maybe needs to go through a little bit more slow? Or how about the guy that just can't stop drinking, literally gets 3 days removed from alcohol and and goes back out and drinks? What about that person? Can I be effective for him too? Can I? Do I have the ability and the experience to take this person through the steps quickly so he, he or she can get their spiritual experience and then
don't have to go back to drinking anymore? You know,
everyone not. I surely wasn't able to have that type of flexibility up until a couple years ago just simply because I didn't have a lot of experience with 12 stepping. So it comes with time.
For me, in the beginning, it was necessary to have that little box. So I don't know if it was necessary, but that's what I did and that's that. That's what worked and and that's what got me to where I am today.
Lately I've also been saying that it was necessary for me. And I feel that anyone who who does the work that that this work group does out of the big book.
I think it's necessary and, and very humorous that we all go through what I like to call an evangelical period where you're just up on your soapbox and you're preaching the big Book and you're trying to jam the big book in the places where it's not meant to be put.
And you know, that's not for everybody. And that's not even for me today. But I had to go through that for, for a period of time to realize that I just didn't have to be that way. And the edges got got smoothed over after a while. But man, when, when I got struck with this message, when the Spirit of God came into my life and and I realized that my purpose on this planet was to be useful and productive to other people, especially Alcoholics,
there's no way I couldn't be enthusiastic about that.
So as Bill would often say, I really went off there.
OK, so you need this information to put yourself in this place to see how you would like him to approach you if the tables were turned. Sometimes it's wise to wait until he goes on a binge. The family may object to this, but unless he is in a serious physical condition, it is better to risk it. Don't deal with him when he is very drunk, unless he is ugly and the family needs your help.
Wait for the end of a spree, or at least a lucid interval.
Then let his family or a friend ask him if he wants to quit drinking for one day at a time.
Just don't drink today. Oh, you just don't have to drink hour by hour.
Well, that may be some advice that that we hear in our rooms, but what this sentence says is if he wants to quit drinking for good.
And if we cross reference that with Doctor Bob Story, Doctor Bob would ask his prospects, Do you want to give up liquor for good and for all?
See, I got this confused a long time. I thought.
I thought when it,
what the book says is that we live life one day at a time.
And as the result, a living life one day at a time, practicing these principles, I don't ever have to go back to whiskey again, you know, And of course, in the beginning it's necessary to take a, a day at a time, to take it an hour a time, because I, I, I'd never, I'd never be able in the beginning, I, I wasn't able to quit drinking any other way. I mean, I was literally hanging on by my toenails,
but this book says that
the prospect wants to quit drinking for good. And there's a second condition to that.
And we've already referred to this in the book several times
if he would go to any extreme, otherwise known as any length to do so.
All right,
so the third tradition applies. I gotta have a desire to stop drinking. Or as the third tradition was originally written, an honest desire to to stop drinking. But there's also a second point to that.
I got to be willing to go to any extreme to do that,
and nowadays I explain to people what any extreme or what any lengths looks like,
and I'll explain that in a minute.
So if he says yes, then his attention should be drawn to you as a person who has recovered. Ed. There we go with that
recovered word again. You should be described to him as one of a fellowship who as part of their own recovery, try to help others and who will be glad to talk to him if he cares to see you.
So this is how I explain to people what any links looks like.
An example person comes up to me in a meeting and says, Mike, will you be my sponsor?
And they've probably just heard me talk in a meeting somewhere, or
maybe they like what I have, so to speak.
But a lot of people have absolutely no idea
what sponsorship entails if we're sponsoring people out of the big book. So I'll explain to them exactly how I sponsor someone because it was how I was and continued to be sponsored. And it's the it's the way the 1st 100 men and women were sponsored. And it's the way this book directs us to sponsor other people.
And I tell them, well, let's talk about that
because I may not have what you want and I may not have what you need. You know, I'm not the type of person that
quite frankly, I don't have time in my life that if you call me every day in a week, two times a day, I'm just simply not going to be reachable.
But what I will do for you is take you through our steps out of this book so that you too can have a spiritual experience and then you can go help others. And then when when you're in a depression or you're in self pity or you're caught up in self and you're just not feeling too good about yourself, you can go help another out Alcoholic.
Yeah, it's important to talk to your sponsor about these things if you're all jammed up or or got problems in your life or what have you.
But all this book is rooted in I got to get out of my selfishness and self centeredness and begin to live life unselfishly.
So in other words, I got to get out of myself and get into you,
and that's what I try to impress upon them right from the very beginning. Don't get me wrong, I do. I don't like to use the word baby, but I do spend more time with a brand new person than I would with someone who has been through this process and who's awakened spiritually. Because the brand new person is a Walking Dead man
and I can't get or keep that person sober. But I am responsible to do the best possible 12 step job than I possibly can
because that person's life is literally in my hands and I'm very, very cognizant of that fact. And I take this stuff real seriously.
So
I tell them this,
I give him a little exercise. And then this is usually for a person that's been around the fellowship for a while, let's say five years and is suffering from untreated alcoholism, hasn't had a drink for five years, but it's just dying of the spiritual malady that we talked about for many weeks.
And this person I I term as a person who has a little more grace period than the drunk that just can't quit drinking.
So I give them an exercise to do.
I tell him to read the Doctor's Opinion in the 1st 164 pages.
Now, most people probably aren't going to be willing to do that. I wasn't. And because of my own experiences, I know why people don't read the 1st 164 pages when when they come in. And this doesn't apply to everyone, but it applied to me. I didn't really know how to read when I came in. I could read but I couldn't comprehend.
You ever read a sentence and and get to the next one and had no clue what the previous sentence said?
My memory just wouldn't retain it.
So I really don't pressure them too much to read the book by themselves because simply a lot of people just aren't capable of doing it. There is the rare person that they take like a fish to water and and they devour this book. But that wasn't my experience. So I don't harp on that too much and I sit down with them and
sort of hand carry them through the book and
like that. But I will have a person who's been around for a while turn the page 59 and read our 12 steps
and I'll have them answer 2 questions
one at a time after reading each step.
The two questions are, excuse me,
is this the work you want to do?
And the second question is, are you going, are you willing to go to any lengths to do this?
So it looks like
I turned the 59 and I read
step one. We admit it, we're powerless over alcohol. Dash that our lives had become unmanageable.
And if I'm the person doing this exercise, I ask myself, is this what I want to do?
Do I want to admit, admit meaning to let in, let in truth that I am powerless over alcohol and dash that my life has become unmanageable? Do I want to do that? Do I want to make that admission of personal powerlessness and unmanageability
Question two, Am I going? Am I willing to go to any lengths to do this step?
And I explained to the person what any lengths looks like
because for a long time I heard in the fellowship, well, you got to be willing to go to any legs, got to be willing. If your sponsor tells you to go in a corner and stand on your head in your underwear, that's any lengths. That's not any lengths. That's ridiculous. It's not any lengths according to this book.
According to this book, any lengths is to follow the directions in this book to take these steps, to get the effect produced by taking these steps, which is a spiritual awakening.
That's the any legs. So I described to them what any lengths looks like.
Let's take step four. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
Is this what I want to do?
Do I want to take this step?
Yes.
Well,
am I willing to go to any lengths to take this step?
Well, I don't know.
What does it mean to make a searching and fearless moral inventory? How do I do that? Well, I tell them
we're going to use this second-half of Chapter 5. How it works
We're going to write 3 inventories. An inventory, a four column inventory on resentments. We're going to write an inventory on fears. We're going to write an inventory on sex and other harms done to others. We're also going to write a sex ideal for a future sex life
and I explained to him a little bit about the four step process. Not too much because they're probably not going to get it, but just enough to not soft sell it.
Because
what's his sense of soft selling a force that I'm just cheating the person that I'm working with. So I let him know that, hey, this could be a difficult deal. There's going to be a lot of work on your part involved in this.
And I let him know what that looks like. And I let them know that I will absolutely, without a shadow of a doubt, help them to the best of my ability. I will help them. And if I can't help them with a particular item in their inventory, by God we'll find someone that can.
Night step. I don't soft sell the night step
got to make the events.
I was talking to one guy one time and he's like, well,
I really didn't hurt anybody. I really don't have any immense. And I said, well said to myself, I know that's a lie.
In the section on amends 9th step, it says most Alcoholics owe money and Bill and I like to rewrite the big book, so we say all Alcoholics owe money. I know I surely did when I came in. And I had a pretty good feeling that this gentleman had some money to pay back.
So I said, do you owe any money to the IRS? And he said, well, yeah, but that, you know, I said, do you have any other debts? Well, yeah, but that's seven years and bankruptcy and statute of limitations. And I said, and then ask you all that I said, do you owe money?
Alcoholics hate to give a yes or no answer. It's like the hardest thing to do,
to quit and drinking. Do you owe money? Have have you taken money that didn't belong to you or didn't pay back money that you were supposed to pay back, etcetera, etcetera? Well, if you put it that way, yes. OK, That's what the 9th step looks like. One of the things that the 9th step requires you to do to the best of your ability is to pay all the money back.
In some cases that's that involves da a payment plan. You guys ever hear that one? A payment plan dollar down, dollar a week for the rest of your life. Some amends are simply like that. We have to make them over a long period and in some cases a lifetime.
But again, I don't, I don't soft sell what we're about to do. And I explained to them in about 20 or 25 minutes
exactly what any lengths looks like and and and I do exactly what Chapter 7 says. I outlined the program of action
and I give them that information and I let them know what it looks like that if they decide they want to do this, that's what it's going to look like. And then I have them answer the two questions with each step. Is this what you want to do and are you willing to go to any lengths to do it? Says on the last paragraph of page 90
If he if he does not want to see you, never force yourself upon him.
Neither should the family hysterically plead with him to do anything, nor should they tell him much about you. They should wait for the end of his next drinking bout.
You might place this book where he can see it in the interval. Here are no specific rule can be given. The family must decide these things, but urge them not to be over anxious, for that might spoil matters.
Usually a family should not try to tell your story. When possible, avoid meeting a man through his family approach to a doctor or an institution. As a better bet, here's an important one.
I used to think that I could play God and and if I had the opportunity to pull drunks off the street and throw them in my basement and sober them up. But this, I don't see it that way anymore. It says if your man needs hospitalization he should have it,
but not forcibly. Unless he isn't. He is violent.
You know, Alcoholics die from the DTS. It's a terrible thing. And I don't play a doctor with this thing. I put them into an emergency room or
there's still a few rehabs open up around here.
Let the doctor, if you will, tell him he has something in the way of a solution.
When your man is better, the doctor might suggest a visit from you. Though you have talked with the family, leave them out of the first discussion. Under these conditions, your prospect will see he is under no pressure. He will feel he can deal with you without being nagged by his family calling him while he is still jittery. He may be more receptive when depressed and that's very true.
Usually it's the people. The people we have a hard time 12 stepping are the ones that are out of rehab for 28 days. They're feeling good. They've been having three hots and a cot and they're, they're all, they're all pumped up with vitamins and they're ready to go to Alcoholics Anonymous with
an X-ray of their liver under, under one arm and
$35,000 Big Book under the other arm.
Usually those are the ones where I like, I got this thing licked. You know, I've been to rehab. I'm OK. But the ones who are just coming off at drunk and who are still shivering and shaking and detoxing off of whiskey,
those are the ones I like to talk to again, Not when they're violently drunk, but when they're just coming down like I was when I first I, I didn't enter a A until I was three days removed from my last drink, you know, and I was still feeling the effects. I was depressed but I was receptive because I wanted to help.
So it says see your man alone if possible. That does not mean go on a 12 step call by yourself. We always go in pairs. At least
what that sentence says is see your man alone if possible. Means exactly what it's been saying in the previous paragraphs. See him outside of the family. Don't talk to him while he's sitting on the couch with, with, with Mommy and Aunt Bessie. You know,
get him while he's by himself.
It's very important to do a 12 step call with an with another person.
I haven't had this experience per se, but I know a lot of people who have. Some people who are close with me where drunks have become very violent. In some cases, guns have been brought into the picture. I've heard stories where people have gotten shot on a 12 step call. So a friend of mine, Dave, he calls
the second person that goes on the call with you. He calls that person the safety.
Before we even go 12 step, the the person, we usually
make a decision who who's going to basically lead the deal?
Who's going to 12th step? The guy and the other guy is the safety. He's there for protection in case the the guy goes bananas,
you know, whether it be guns or knives or or what have you.
So again, I urge upon you, never,
never interact with with a drunk by yourself. Matter of fact, in the early days they would put the drunk up in the hospital
in Akron, particularly with Doctor Bob and Sister Ignatia and all the other cast of characters that that Bill is better inclined to tell you the history about. But they would set the drunk up in the hospital and give them a private room.
And over over a series of several days that sometimes these drunks were being visited by 20 people, all going in there to tell them their story.
Not his story, not to talk about his drinking, but to for me to tell
the prospective member of Alcoholics Anonymous what my drinking was like so he could identify with that and say, well, God, I'm just like you guys, you guys aren't drinking today. What'd you do? And then we can give them a spiritual solution, you know, so back then
the the hospital in Akron would just get flooded with, with people
go on, on what they used to call the visit.
That's that's what it was called in the early days.
At first, engage in general conversation. After a while, turn the talk to some phase of drinking. Tell him enough about your drinking habit, symptoms, and experiences to encourage him to speak of himself. If he wishes to talk, let him do so. You will thus get a better idea of how you ought to proceed. If he is not commutative, give him a sketch of your drinking career up until the time he quit. Again, tell him your story,
but say nothing from for the moment of how that was accomplished.
If he is in a serious mood, dwell on the troubles liquor has cost you, being careful not to moralize our lecture. If his mood is light, tell him humorous stories of your escapades. Get him to tell some of his
when he sees you know all about the drinking gang commenced to describe yourself as an alcoholic. Tell him how baffled you were, how you finally learned that you were sick.
Excuse me?
Give him an account of the struggles you made to stop.
Show him the mental twist which leads to the first drink of a spree. We suggest you do this as we have done in the chapter on alcoholism. That's chapter 3.
What a beautiful chapter, particularly for people who have relapsed a beautiful, beautiful chapter because they they give several examples on how
on the the mental twist which which leads to the first drink.
Excellent chapter. If he is alcoholic, he will understand you at once. He will match your mental inconsistencies with some of his. And all that sentence is saying is he will identify. And once we have him, once he or she identifies, we got him hooked.
It's like putting bait on a hook and catching a fish. When one alcoholic can relate to another alcoholic, we got them. It's a beautiful process to watch someone literally light up because they identify that they are just like you and you're not drinking anymore. And you seen them be living a pretty good life. And that's called hope.
Beautiful thing to watch someone get open their eyes.
If you are satisfied that he is a real alcoholic, begin to dwell on the hopelessness, the hopeless feature of the malady. And we can also add to that, dwell on the hopeless feature of the spiritual malady. Show him, from your own experience, how the queer mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the willpower.
Don't, at this stage, refer to this book unless he has seen it and wishes to discuss it. And be careful not to brand him as an alcoholic. Let him draw his own conclusion. If he sticks to the idea that he can still control his drinking, tell him that possibly he can
if he is not too alcoholic. I love that if he is not too alcoholic, but insist that if he is severely afflicted, there may be little chance he can recover by himself.
Continue to speak of alcoholism as an illness of fatal malady. Talk about the conditions of body, physical allergy and mind mental obsession which accompanying it. Keep his attention focused mainly on your personal experience. Explain that many are doomed who never realized their predicament.
Skip down to the very last line of the page
says even though your protege. Notice it doesn't say baby, it doesn't say pigeon,
and really in the 1st 164 pages there's nowhere that it says spot seat. Although I do use that word from time to time. But the the words I like to use are protege and prospect,
and this chapter uses both of those words. The prospect is the man that we're making the 12 step call on. He's a prospect.
You're not really sure if he's in or he's out. Does he want the the fellowship in the program of Alcoholics in August? We're not too sure, but we're making the pitch. We're 12 step in them. The protege is someone that I have hooked, so to speak. You know, they identify, they want to do this. You know,
they want to take the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous and, and I've to use the term loosely, I've taken them under my wings, so to speak. You know, they're a protege. Definition of the word protege is a very special person. And I tell you anybody that I work with is very special. They're very special because they help this drunk. They help me more than I could ever help them. So I don't like to
refer to people that I work with as, as babies, although that term does have some historical significance. I've been told that that it comes from Doctor Bob and you know, that's OK. That term is used heavily in in California and and that's OK.
And I don't use the word pigeon,
I heard a guy say one time. Well, I I referred to him as my pigeons because they crap all over me.
I don't like that. I don't like that
they don't crap all over me. People only. People only poo, poo all over me if I allow them to.
Other Alcoholics like myself are sick. Of course they're going to do things that I don't like. They're alcoholic. They're just like I was and still can be, you know. So I like to refer to them as either my friend or a protege. And these, these people are a joy, I'll tell you. So even though your protege may not have
entirely admitted his condition,
he buys some of the first step. But he's still having some problems seeing the entire ball of wax.
He has become very curious to know how you got well,
you know he knows he has a problem, but he's just not ready to admit it. But he sees something in you,
so it says. Let him ask that question, if he will,
and it says in italics. Tell him exactly what happened to you exactly.
If he says, what did you do to beat this game of alcoholism? What have you done to recover? Let him know. Let him know the spiritual experience that you have
as the result of doing these steps.
And this is when we can now stress the spiritual future freely. We hold back a little bit on it in the beginning because we don't want to scare the guy off.
Stress the spiritual feature freely. If the man be agnostic or atheist, make it emphatic that he does not have to agree with your conception of God. Again, that's an italicized writing
doesn't have to believe in what I believe in.
He can choose any conception he likes providing and makes sense to him. The main thing is that he'd be willing. Sounds like a taste of Step 2 here, huh? The main thing is that he'd be willing to believe in a power greater than himself, and
that he lived by spiritual principles.
He'd be willing to believe in a power greater than himself. Step 2, and that he lived by spiritual principles all the rest of the steps three through 12.
When dealing with such a person, you had better use everyday language to describe spiritual principles. Don't get too Freudian. Don't get too clinical or or medical. Use everyday language. And that's a that's a great thing about Alcoholics Anonymous, the Fellowship. And that's a great thing about our big book is that this book is written in drunk language. It's written in a way that I can relate to.
There's no use arousing any prejudice he may have against certain theological terms and conceptions about which
he may already be confused. Don't raise such issues, no matter what your own convictions
your prospect may be may belong to a religious denomination or
I've actually made the Freudian slip and said religious domination.
That also implies in some cases
his religious education and training may be far superior to yours. In that case, he is going to wonder how you can add anything to what he already knows,
but he will be curious to learn why his own convictions have not worked and why you're seeing the work so well. He may be an example of the truth that faith alone is insufficient to be vital faith. Faith must be accompanied by self sacrifice and unselfish constructive action.
Faith without works is dead. What are the works? The works is self sacrifice and unselfish constructive action.
Let them see that you are not there to instruct him in religion.
It admit that he probably knows more about it than you do, but call to his attention the fact that however deep his faith and knowledge, he could not have applied it
or he would not drink. Perhaps your story will help him see where he has failed to practice the very precepts he knows so well. Again, it's a whole thing about
knowledge and information versus experience. And I can have all the knowledge in the world, the prospect can have all the knowledge about spiritual matters in the world. But if he hasn't had an experience with it,
I think he's not going to be able to quit drinking.
Same was the case with me.
We represent and then, and this is, this is a great thing about a, a. We represent no particular faith or denomination.
We've, we've opened this whole thing up to anyone. We are very inclusive and thank goodness for that.
I mean, if you're Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, Native American,
whatever, welcome to Alcoholics Anonymous. Because Alcoholics Anonymous talks about a universal God. Alcoholics Anonymous talks about a higher power. Alcoholics Anonymous talks about for deep down within every man, woman and child is the fundamental basic idea of God.
Alcoholics Anonymous talks about start where you are.
Do you believe, or are you even willing to believe that there is some power
that can help you with your alcoholic problem?
Great thing about a A It's universal
outline, the program of action explaining how you made a self appraisal steps four and five, how you straighten out your past steps 8:00 and 9:00, and why you are now endeavoring to be helpful to him. Step 12,
right? So what I do with the prospect during that
20 to 25 minute, and it by all means varies conversation. Quite often this happens over the phone.
During that conversation. I do exactly this. I outlined the program of action, and that's what I was describing before.
I give him, I give him a snapshot of what the 12 steps looks like. I described that to them and I let them know what any lengths looks like, what they're going to have to do if they want to take the steps that we've taken to recover from alcoholism.
It is important for him to realize that your attempt to pass this on to him plays a vital part in your own recovery. And I let him know that, and I let him know this, that
he may be helping me more than I am helping him. I mean that, that is so true.
Some of my
some of the best ways that I've been helped in Alcoholics Anonymous has come through my failures.
Saw a guy a couple weeks ago, I got sober with him.
Actually, I got sober before him and my sponsor, my original sponsor sponsored him. And you know, I was in that
evangelical piss and vinegar mode after about six months or so of sobriety.
And I always wanted to help this guy. Yeah, we had the same sponsor, but I was going to help him too. And so I saw this guy a few weeks ago and, and and he was drunk and he was at a meeting, but he was drunk and he couldn't stop drinking. And when I was way off and he was in bad, bad shape
and it broke my heart to see that because over the years and I hadn't seen him in a few years
because where I saw him is where I originally got got sober in in central New Jersey. And I don't really get a chance to go back there too often anymore.
But during the early days of our recovery, me and this guy got real close and
I would go over his house sometimes with the intention of, you know, playing Mr. A A and trying to help him and, and you got to do your inventory. And, but quite frankly, I was going through a real rough patch in early sobriety, I would say within my first year. And,
and I, I would simply go over it to his house with the intention of trying to help him. And I ended up getting help more. I ended up not drinking as the result of it. I ended up sitting down with this with this man's family and breaking bread with them and playing with his little children and watching Jurassic Park with them. And I didn't have to pick up a drink that day
and I was able, I reminded him in this,
even when he was drunk, I just felt it from my heart to do that. And I reminded him of this. And, you know, I just encouraged them that, you know, I, I know it's difficult for you to quit drinking, but keep trying. And, and when you get the booze out of your system, grab somebody 'cause you know, I, I live far away from them, but grab somebody local here that does this work and, and does the steps and, and, and have this experience.
And,
and I was just really able to have
for this guy. And it wasn't something that I had to muster up. It just came from within me and
and I let him know. I said, man, you helped me so, so much.
I just let them know. Let other people help you in that.
So I have no idea where that came from.
Actually, it came from he may be helping you more than you're helping him.
OK,
Make it plain he is under no obligation to you, that you hope only that he will try to help other Alcoholics when he escapes his own difficulties. And that was the same message that I passed on to Bob.
Suggest how important it is that he placed the welfare of other people ahead of his own unselfishness.
Make it clear that he is under no pressure, that he needn't see you again if he doesn't want to. You should not be offended if he wants to call it off, or he has helped you more than you have helped him. If your talk has been sane, quiet and full of human understanding, you have perhaps made a friend. Maybe you have disturbed him about the question of alcoholism, and this is all to the good. The more hopeless he feels, the better he will be more likely to follow your suggestions.
Your candidate may give reasons why he need not follow all the program. He may rebel at the thought of a drastic house cleaning, which requires discussion
with other people. Do not contradict such views. Tell him you once felt as he does, but you doubt whether you would have made such progress had you not taken action on your first visit. And all the information that we've covered so far has been about the first visit. Next week we're going to get into the second visit. On your first visit, tell him about Fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous. If he shows interest, let him your copy of this book.
Unless your friend wants to talk further about himself, do not wear out your welcome. Give him a chance to think it over. If you do not stay, let him steer the conversation in any direction he likes.
Sometimes a new man is anxious to proceed at once, and you may be tempted to let him do so. This is sometimes a mistake. If he has trouble later, he is likely to say you rushed him. You will you will be most successful with Alcoholics if you deny exhibit any passion for crusade or reform. Here's definitely a couple tips.
One gentleman I know refers to this as the 12 steppers decorum. Never talk down to an alcoholic from any moral or spiritual hilltop. That's 1-2. Simply lay out the kit of spiritual tools for his inspection 3 Show him how they work for you. 4 Offer him friendship and fellowship, and five, tell him if he wants to get well you you'll do anything to help.
If he is not interested in your solution,
if he expects you to act only as a banker for his financial difficulties or a nurse for his sprees, you may have to drop him until he changes his mind. This he may do after he gets hurt some more.
If he is sincerely interested and wants to see you again, ask him to read this book. In the interval after doing that, he must decide for himself whether he wants to go on. And that's exactly what I do with him. I asked him, do do you want to go on with the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous? He should not be pushed or prided by you, his wife, or his friends. If he is to find God. The desire must come from within,
just like the desire to quit drinking must come from within. The desire
to find God, or the desire to
go through with the program recovery must come from within.
If he thinks he can do the job in some other way or prefers some other spiritual approach, encourage him to follow his own conscience. We have no monopoly on God, and we merely have an approach that worked for us. But point out that we Alcoholics have much in common and that you would like in any case to be friendly and let it go at that. This guy wants to go to church and and
and attempt to get sober through religion. Then that's all. Don't stop that. It works for a lot of people.
We have no no monopoly on God and certainly we don't have the only solution to alcoholism.
We just have the best solution that works for the greatest amount of people.
Do not be discouraged if your prospect does not respond at once. Search out another alcoholic and try again. You are sure to find someone desperate enough to accept with eagerness what you offer. We find it a waste of time to keep chasing a man who cannot or will not work with you. If you leave such a person alone, he may he may soon become convinced that he cannot recover by himself.
To spend too much time on anyone situation is to deny some other alcoholic
an opportunity to live and to be happy. One of our fellowship failed entirely with his first half dozen prospects. He often says that if he continued to work on them, he might have deprived many others who have since recovered of their chance.
So again,
if the person
doesn't want what you have the offer, let them go.
Go on to the next person and don't try to cram this thing down someone's throat who who's not swallowing it because you just
may be preventing yourself from being available to another alcoholic who really does want this thing. We'll stop there for tonight, and next week we'll pick it up in the middle of page 96 where it says suppose now you're making your second visit.
Thanks for letting me share.