The DA Regional Fellowship Day in Minneapolis, MN

And we're going to send the 7th Tradition Basket around again because I think some people may have missed it.

So Amy is going to send that around right now.

Is everybody ready?

I'm John, a compulsive underarner and debtor. And

I, I ended up in coming to DEA in 1994 and I came to that first meeting that was in Saint Paul where there was 6 people. And I think that meeting lasted I think 60 days before a move to Hopkins. But my story is this. I, I was in another 12 step program, was in a in on my 17th year of sobriety. I ended up in DA. In my previous life,

I was entrepreneur and owned several businesses and I owned a Ford dealership, a Lincoln Mercury dealership in other businesses. And in 1992 because of the recession and some Row construction, I lost that business which was the Lincoln Mercury dealership in Burnsville. So the way that I made money before it didn't work anymore and

my sponsor in a talk to me about

learning a little bit more about humility. And I think through that period of time,

I think I might have close to a PhD in humility because it was really, really, really, really hard. So here I'm coming to another meeting. I was very, very resentful to have to come to another 12 step group because I thought when I started my first sobriety, that was it and I wouldn't have to look at anything again. But

what I found in this group, and I just want to thank there's several people and you know who hear that really helped me in my life because my life isn't the same anymore. My life is 1000% different and

my life wouldn't be what it is today if I didn't show up. And if people like Ann and Michelle and Mary B and several other people here

that participate in my PR, GS helped me grow to where I am today. And

when I came into the program

myself, esteem to me was at all time low and my confidence was at all time low. And it was the love that I got here and the caring. And

I think through the PRG's getting the sponsor, being of service, I got love back to health. I got my confidence back. Another thing that DA did, it ruined the way that I did business. You know, it screwed up my life. I couldn't do business. And I remember one time I had this business of sports marketing business that I really love around Motorsports. And I went all over the country and I just couldn't keep that business going. And

this was in 95

and part of my PRG, I had to shut that business down. And I remember how humiliating and the death of that business that I thought that I left behind. But what happened to me because of the people, my PRG, I got guided to a profession that works for me. And the other part, I want to say I wasn't willing to get a job because I was always going to be Joe Boss in my life. So I didn't think that I needed structure or any or that type of thing that didn't work

me. That worked for everybody out there, but that didn't work for me. So what happened? I ended up getting the job and being an entrepreneur in somebody else's organization and knowing what I known. I wish I ever done that 20 years ago because I could be much further ahead in my life. So after coming here for all these years and in my life growing, it wasn't. This is part I want to talk about before I ended is that

two years ago I got my 30th year in

A and I ended up on the first step and under earning. So here I am 30 and step one and

in this under earning part and I want to thank and Michelle because I remember calling him up and said, you know, I really got to talk to you guys. My business is stuck. I'm not getting anywhere. And and I watched Michelle work her program and work on the under earning. And that was now if I didn't come here and see what she did in her life, there wouldn't have been any hope for me, you know? So that's why it's important to come to the meetings because like Michelle says and other people, we have these spiritual awakenings and they say sometimes,

sometimes slowly, but they're always materialized. Well, mine materialized after coming here for 13 years. So the under earning has been a big relief for me. And when Michelle talked about structure and discipline, I put structure and discipline in my business. And I just want to say because of them and because of them reaching out for me, I was able to increase my business 210% last year. And I didn't think I could even make it in the business when I first went and talked to them.

And I know it's a God thing. And I know because I was humble enough to be honest and to share my pain that I was able to move forward. Now, I haven't been able to work this program perfectly, but I've tried and I've showed up and

I'm just so grateful that we have a place to come to, especially in The Economic Times that they're out there today and what I believe. I don't care what happens

on the outer world, I just believe that we operate in this new spiritual dimension around our money, which is completely different than what everybody else does. So

I don't know how it works, but I do know if you come and you show up and you're willing and you go to PR GS and you be of service and if you're honest, your life will get better. And I remember one of my PR GS,

two things I found out coming here is that I was in a bad marriage and I was in the wrong profession after doing a fourth and 5th step. And one of my PRGS said, you know, for me to move on my own. And I think Ann was part of that. And I ended up moving on the corner up here. So this is Linden Hill. So in 1998, I rent it right up on the corner now. Now I have a condo right down the street. And I found this neighborhood, which is my spiritual neighborhood, Linden Hills, by coming to DA and being able to

live where in the area that nourishes me. So what I do when I'm fearful, when it's not working for me, I try to do a lot of service. I try to do PR GS, I try to reach out for people. And every time I do a PRGI, learn how to do my money better. I learn how to be humble. I learn how to be honest. I learn how to be more transparent. So

all I can say is the best thing I like about this program is that to show up here, you just need to

willingness not to incur unsecured debt, a willingness you don't have to do it perfect. But I think like Michelle said and other people, you never know when that spiritual awakening is going to happen for you. But if you don't show up, you know it's not going to happen. So thank you.

Hi, I'm Christy. I'm a compulsive under earner and debtor. Hi, I wasn't expecting a podium but I'll do my best. I've been in DA now. I started in January of 1997. It was Martin Luther King Day 1997 that I decided to go to my first meeting and I called somebody a contact number and I said are you going to have the meeting today because it's a holiday? And the woman said, oh we always have these meetings. Every holiday, every every week we have this meeting.

And I was really impressed by that, that there would be that level of commitment just in keeping the meeting going. So it felt like I could place my trust somewhat in the DA program and made the commitment to go to the meeting. And that was the beginning of my journey. And I can tell you a little bit about my history.

I pretty much started getting into money troubles as soon as I left home and went away to college and I dropped out of school. But the credit card companies thought that I was going to graduate and so they sent me pre approved credit cards, a couple of those. And I remember

the meal in front of one of my friends and there was a credit card there pre approved $5000 with the actual plastic card in there. They used to do that. And he said, hey, great, free money. And I said yeah, free money. And I just went and maxed that one out and maxed out the next one. And thankfully kind of lost my privileges early on using credit card. So I didn't get into too much credit card debt. But my dad in an under earning showed up in other ways and

mostly through borrowing from friends and boyfriends

and getting injured and having very large hospital bills and doctor bills and not paying those.

And

at the time I knew something was wrong, but I didn't know what it was. And I just thought it was that I was incompetent and irresponsible and stupid around money and that I had a lot of self loathing about that because I feel like I'm a pretty smart person in other ways. But I just, I didn't understand how to make money, how to manage money, how to keep track of money, how to spend it like in ways that were

really meeting my needs.

So I kept kind of trying, searching for an answer. And I was talking to people saying, I don't understand this pattern that I'm in. And, and I finally got ahold of like a self help book that said how to repair your credit report. Because I thought that's what my problem was, that I had a bad credit report and that once I got that credit fixed, then everything would be okay.

And it brought a lot of awareness in, but it obviously wasn't the answer, at least for me it wasn't. And the that year that I decided I was going to, quote UN quote, get serious about my debt, after a year of doing that, I was $1000 deeper in debt than I was the year before. And that's when I really realized that this is something I just don't understand. It's beyond my control.

So lo and behold, I got another self help book. And in that book it said

all these things about being a debtor. And I said, Oh yeah, that's me, that's me, that's me. It was like a relief to actually have a name for the problem. So I got about halfway through that book and it said you need to go to ADA meeting. You can't do this yourself. You need to have fellowship and support. And I was living in Los Angeles at the time. And so I made it my New Year's resolution to go to ADA meeting and ended up at the Santa Monica Women's Meeting on Monday nights.

And there was a woman there who had been going to DA for 10 years,

and she came every Monday. She was always there. She was just somebody I really looked to for recovery. She LED our business meetings. She just really seemed together. And I thought, why is she still coming here? You know, she's obviously doesn't have any money problems anymore. But then I started listening to her, what she shared about and she shared about difficulty with her business or selling her condo.

And I finally kind of got the picture there that, OK, money's always going to be a part of my life and I'm always going to have

issues with money and why not get help and support around that instead of trying to do it myself? So I realized I was never going to graduate from the DA program, that I was probably going to be doing it for the rest of my life. And so now it's eleven years later and I'm still coming to DA and I'm really happy about that. And I I think about the woman in LA often and realize that

now that I'm a long timer, it probably has a lot to do with that first impression she made on me of the commitment that she had to DA and the service that she didn't give him back.

So I stopped deading after about six months of being in DA through PRG and other things.

But I ignored a major part of the program which is the steps.

And it's funny because this is a 12 step program

and I just had a really hard time with the stubs. And the really hard time with the stubs probably is, you know, the first, second and third and all the ones that follow. I mean, every step just seemed really hard to me. So I tried doing a lot of other things besides working the steps. I realized for a very long time I was practicing at 12 tools program, not a 12 step program. So I did all those things on the tools, I

did my numbers. I love doing my numbers. I had PRG's, I gave PRG's, I did a lot of service, I do a lot of ServiceNow, and I think all those things are really good. And it provided structure for me. It provided some relief. It got me out of my misery in terms of suffering by myself, but it really wasn't relieving the problem completely. And I've heard a lot of people talk about under earning here today and I'm really glad that people are talking about it because I am a compulsive under earner.

It's been really hard to admit that for some reason it seems more glamorous to be a compulsive spender

because but you know, that's just just me. Probably that's my opinion. So it was very hard for me to admit to being an under earner, but to really say I'm a compulsive under earner. When I look back through my history and I see where I've gotten to a certain point of prosperity, gotten to a certain point of

repaying debt, got into a certain point of having reserves, a prudent reserve, money saved, and then seeing it all drain back slowly or quickly, sometimes down to zero. And I've been on that roller coaster for pretty much all the 11 years I've been in DA and all that time before as an adult. So I had about nine years of abstinence of not debting and then I debted and I had been carrying around that nine year chip

and I did that for about 6 months. And then finally I just said, you know, this chip doesn't really mean anything to me now because I have debted and I haven't told anybody about it. So at my meeting, the South Minneapolis meeting,

I just turned my chip back in, said I'm starting over again. I'm, I don't even have 24 hours of abstinence right now. And it was such a relief to finally just let that all go because I thought, oh, I've been in da for so long and I should have more. I should have this abstinence. I did have the abstinence, you know, I was just hanging on to that. And it was just such a relief to let it go and say, I'm a newcomer again. I'm starting over

and

because of that humbling experience, it helped me see my pattern of under earning and that being the real root problem of my dadding.

And so it's interesting because I did have nine years of abstinence from not debting, but I was under earning that whole time pretty much. And I'm a master skimper. I I can get by on really little. I have an inordinate sense of accomplishment on getting by on really little. I hear some laughter out there. Maybe some other people know a little bit about that. So it was just really good for me to, to

become powerless again and

umm, and be clear about what the problem was.

Um, somewhere in that time I was in Los Angeles and then I moved back to Minneapolis and the first day that I arrived here, I went to a DA meeting and this is Thursday night visions like I drove up in my little truck at 3:00 in the afternoon and at 7:00 I was at the meeting. And so I am thankful that

somehow, even through all the ups and downs, I've been able to stay committed to the program and know that it, even though I'm not always happy about it, or I don't feel like I'm moving along as fast as I should or I have resentments against people and then, you know, meeting or whatever, that somehow I know the answer lies in this fellowship, the answer to my problem.

And umm, recently I'd started working the steps and really working them this time around, debtting and under earning. So in place of the word alcohol in the big book, in the 12:00 and 12:00, I substitute compulsive under earning and debting.

And

that has come after a long winter of just feeling completely defeated and depressed, angry,

hopeless. Hopeless was a big one. And so I started, I got a sponsor because I was sponsor list for a long time too. Part of that was because I didn't ask anybody for a long time. And then part of that was I asked a number of people and they said no for various reasons, but finally somebody said yes. And I'm really grateful for that.

And so I was stuck in step one or not stuck. I was working step one for about a month and justice feeling really angry and all those feelings that go with it. And then finally one day I was driving around and I said to myself, Oh, it's better to be powerlessness or powerless. It's better to be powerless because I don't need to carry this around by myself anymore. Because that's what the all those angry feelings were. And, and all the hopelessness and all those things was me trying to do it myself and be self-sufficient.

So I called my sponsor and I told her that and she said, I think you got the gift of step one, you're ready to move on to Step 2.

And so that's what I'm working on right now is Step 2 around under earning and debting. And I wanted to read something from the big book. And that's a laugh at myself because I'm carrying my big book around. And I remember when I first started in Dai, I'd see people coming to conferences with their big book and I thought it was amusing. And here I'm one of them now. Here's my big book,

and This is why I'm carrying this big book around because it says this is from chapter four of the big book. Page 45 says lack of power. That was our dilemma. We had to find a power by which we could live, and it had to be a power greater than ourselves. But where and how were we to find this power? Well, that's exactly what this book is about. Its main object is it to enable you to find a power greater than yourself which will solve your problem.

And I've read this book probably four or five times, and I don't know how I missed that part,

that that's what the big book is about. It's how to recover from compulsive disease. And so I'm just feeling really hopeful and happy right now to be working the steps to have a sponsor who is committed to my recovery as well as her own, and also just to be part of the fellowship of DA.

And I think one of the objectives or one of the ideas I got when sharing about being a long timer is why I'm still here. And obviously it's because I still have a problem,

but also what has kept me here is seeing the commitment of others and then making that commitment myself and really having that

be put into action through service. So I do service at every level, personal meeting, intergroup, and World Service. I've had the privilege of going to three World Service conferences and

also by being a sponsor myself has really helped me to keep committed to my own step work because I have people calling me every week and part of my job as a sponsor is to guide them through the steps. So if I'm personally not working the steps, I really don't feel like I have that much to offer.

And I guess my time is probably just about up. But I will say the slogan of keep coming back. It works. And I look forward to seeing you all at future fellowship days and at meetings and other places. DA So thank you.

Good afternoon. My name is Sharon and I'm a debtor.

Someone with a watch tell me when it's like 12 minutes.

Somebody can do that. Just raise your hand to somebody. Nancy Dovel,

thank you.

I came into this program 7 1/2 years ago and I was living in Seattle when I came into this program. I had the benefit at that particular time in my life of two other 12 step programs I had. I have almost 32 years of sobriety. I was in Al Anon at the time and what they had taught me and what I've heard from many, many people over the 7 1/2 years. This is such an insidious

issue that even though I, my life had changed, even though I felt I was grounded in the steps, it still eluded me that I had a problem with money. I was born at a time when the culture said that somebody was supposed to take care of you. The gold in my high school class was who, you know, let's find someone to marry us. That's what the culture said at the time. And somewhere inside of me, I still had that. And

thankfully maybe I found people to take care of me. I found a husband and then I found another husband

and I was a worker. I brought home a good paycheck. And the purpose of that paycheck was to go out and spend. And I had somebody who would bail me out. I would I would overdraw my account and instant money would kick in. He'd step in all kitchen. Say I paid off your instant money today. Oh God, life was good. I tell you. I tell you, I was riding high. I was well dressed,

had a great job,

good money. I mean, I had it all together. Well, what I found out was that once I decided for my first husband died and left me a lot of money and I blew that. And my second husband, I divorced him. And what I came face to face with was I had to take care of myself and I was terrified. But I wanted to get rid of him more than I wanted to to not face this fear.

And so

Fast forward

to about 1997 and I

came to a place in my life where there was no more. I had managed to living in Seattle, managed to spend all of my money, all of my money, and I had $2000.00 left. And now how, how did I get there? I, I mean, I was like a person on a treadmill, if you can imagine that.

And I was

running as fast as I could and what I was doing was running away from me, of course. And so bottom line, I found ADA, the DA program, and I knew that I belonged there. I didn't know, I'm honest to God, how I could have lived that many years and have not known I had a problem with money. I did not know. I did not know. I was so ignorant. I was whatever you want to call it. I don't even want to belittle myself. I just

didn't know any better. I didn't know there was another choice. I knew I had to take care of myself, but I didn't know I had a problem with money. I thought there was something wrong with life maybe, or there was something wrong out here. So when I finally became willing, what I did is I immediately dove into the program because I was traumatized. Mind you, here I am in my almost my late 50s and I have $2000 to my name. I wound up in Seattle in the food stamp office.

I wound up in, well, I mean, I went to any length to get help for myself. I had a lifestyle before I would drive women to the food stamp office. I was big on service. I would drive people to the welfare. I was the one standing in line wanting to get food stamps. Talk about humility. And it is something that I really needed. I was at a bottom and I returned to Minneapolis, dove into the DA program. And what I see about the program that I developed

is that I started saying yes. Yes, I will go to meetings, yes, I will have a sponsor. Yes, I will work the steps, yes, I will do service, all of that. And at the same time, I saw that I had to start saying no,

no, I'm not going to go into Target, which is a bar for me. I'm not going to, I'm not going to go there. I'm going to go into a store and I'm going to buy what I need and say no to what I don't need. I am not going to charge

7 1/2 years I have of not having unsecured debt. I will be paying off my last credit card this year at $700.00. It'll be done by the end of this year. My last credit card. I'm a cash person. But what I stepped into when I got into this program is my shame. I was so ashamed of myself. What is wrong with me? Here I am a mother, Here I am a grandmother,

Here I am a friend.

What is wrong with me? And I had to face my family. I had to face my friends. And what I had to my name was seven boxes and $2000. That's all I had. I have two grown sons that are quite amazing. They're they're, they are wealthy, they're healthy, they're great. And I had to show up as I was. Now, I didn't tell my kids my story.

They didn't want to hear my story. What I did is I made amends. I made amends to my grown children and what I individually and to their into their wives. And what I said to my son individually was that I am very sorry for any worry and concern that I caused you. That's all I had to say. And I shut up and I let them say what they needed to say to me,

and each of them reflected back to me what that meant to them. And that was a good day for me. Another thing that I had to say no to was the way I was giving gifts.

I was a great gift giver. I would love to show up in your life and bring bring stuff. I mean, today I love to give gifts. I love to give gifts. However, back then, the gift giving was coming out of my emptiness because what I learned is there was a hole inside of me, a hole. And I kept trying to fill it up, trying to be good, trying to be loving because I didn't love myself.

And so because I didn't love myself, I didn't think you could love me.

So I would show up and have stuff at Christmas while the first year when I came back from Seattle and was here, I of course we're going to have a family gathering at my son's house. I had a choice to make. I had had PR GS constantly. I had my money allocated. That meant I had no money for gifts. And so I had to face

coming into my son, my grandchildren with no gifts.

And I was willing to face that only with the help of the people in the program. I wanted to be free. I want to be free. And the only way I was going to be free is if I faced myself. I used to believe that if I were were acted good, that would make me good. That was kind of what I what I was told. She's such a good girl. Oh, I don't know what I would do without her. I heard that constantly

in my childhood.

Now, thanks to this program, I have been able to find the goodness inside of Maine. So I don't have to act good or be good. I simply am. I simply AM. And that has come as a result of my willingness to say no. And to say yes, I will show up with no gifts. What happened those first two Christmases was that I got really creative.

I wrote a fairy tale and designed it for my grandchild, for each of the people in the room, my children, their spouse's.

I took a memory that we had that past year together, the two of us. And I wrote about it, wrote how meaningful what that meant to me. And then and then I let them read it. That was what we did. The the final thing we did sitting around the tree is each of them read the letter and we all cried. And at that very moment, I mean, talk about a spiritual awakening. And I had had many spiritual awakenings, I know. But in that moment, I knew that no matter what, there would be

any turning back for me. How could I, how could I go back to a life where the meaning of the relationships in my life were diminished by my shopping in a store? How could I do that? Well, I did it. But now, hopefully, I am more awake and my awakeness lets me know that you and my children and my friends and the people in the world are more important. I am more important

then stepping back into shame. And that's the gas that keeps my program going in addition to service and all the great things. It's taken me a long time, but it takes what it takes. And today I, I do my numbers, I, if I have any issues around money, I talk to somebody about it. I have envelopes and if you're going to the program, you know about the envelopes. I have these envelopes and I put money in them every month. And my partner Patrick said to me one day, aren't you worried about

and taking those envelopes, why don't you put them in the bank? Well, if he needs the money or she needs the money, you know, he said, Well, at least put your underwear over them, for God's sakes.

So I told him I did and I didn't. And you know, he feels better,

but I have my envelopes and I still have the same envelopes that I had when I got in the program. And it works for me. It worked. My program is simple. It is basic. I do it the way the people who have walked before me told me to do it, because I still know that I have a choice every day and the choices that I can go back, I can go back to that. And I, my goal is to

face my life and to know that I'm living in my own integrity and that I'm living through the value system that have been created by the great people who came before me and developed the spiritual program. Thank you for listening to me. I just love being here and among all you spiritual people.

Thank you.

Thank you, Sharon and Christy and John. Does anybody have any questions for these panelists? If so, you can write them on your cards and we'll just take a couple minutes.

Anybody,

Liz? I think Liz has a question.

Liz is asking about Step 11 in. What do the panelists do for a meditation? Does anybody want to come up to the mic and address that?

This is different for me. Throughout the years in the beginning of working a 12 step program, my, my mind was so anxious that what I, what I became comfortable with was simply having a book that I read every day. It was some some higher thought I would call it and I would just take that as my meditation and kind of use it as my theme for the day

because my anxiety was so great that

sitting down and trying to quiet my mind felt like it was a detriment to me. And so that is what I did. And So what I'm saying is that I started small. I started very, very tiny steps. And that has evolved over time. And today I have a meditation practice, which for me is twice a day, morning and evening, 20 minutes, 20 minutes

or so, and maybe it's 10 minutes. When I began this particular part of my practice, sometimes it was 5 minutes, sometimes it was 10 minutes. Now it's 20 minutes.

And so I'm encouraging people when I work with them to find something that that helps you where you are.

It isn't helpful to go to the Zen center and be told that you have to be in the stillness for an hour with them when in fact, and that's a wonderful thing. But if you're, if you have to be where you are, being your body, be where you and work with what you have. And so I suggest if you're starting a meditation book, there's wonderful ones out today with a theme for the day. And from there on in, if you have it as your intention, when the student is ready, the

Yeah, I'd like to make a quick comment on that. There's three little meditation books I read one day at a time. I read something from the Daily Word and then I read a meditation around men

amends meditation. But I also try to go for during the day, 210 minute walks at 10:30 and 2:30 where I just thank God. And then part of it I do three times a week. I go to the Saint Olive Chapel, which is on the skyway by my office and I just go in there and sit and and before I go to bed at each night I try to read some type of meditation before I fall asleep.

Yeah, I'd like to address that question to my name is Christy. I'm a debtor and I think that my meditation has changed over the years too. But right now what I'm doing is doing journaling with my step work. I write on a question every day. And before I start my step work, my sponsor actually advised me to do this. And I thought, wow, what a great idea. I never thought about that before. She said, you know, before you start every day, just ask God to help you with your step work and to help

reveal to you what you need revealed today to increase your awareness.

And so I do that every morning now, umm, I ask for God's help. And then after I'm done with my writing, I sit for 10 minutes and just try to be quiet and not necessarily for an answer, but just to calm down and quiet my mind and maybe some kind of conscious contact with God comes in there.

Thanks, Christy. Thanks, Sharon and John. Yes, Amy,

OK. The question is what was the turning point in recovery that got you out of the shame and guilt? Does anybody want to talk about that

for me because I just did a fourth and 5th step. It was when I did the 4th and 5th step and I remember on under earning,

I had to write a lot and I'd write around shame it right around my last all the way back to the beginning. And that's part of what came out in in the fourth step and then doing the fifth step.

That's when the turning point was for me,

part of what I believe I'm Sharon, I'm a debtor. Part of what I believe cost shame for me is that I wasn't who I, I said I was. I said I was this person and I was really this person. I was engaging in actions that were on contrary to the image that I was trying to project to the world. So what I'm saying is that there were two, there was a split in me and there isn't any one thing that happened for me to

to allow the shame to heal except that I do know I had to match my actions with what I said.

I had to create a lifestyle where if I said thus and so that you knew that I was authentic. So today I can say that I, I am the person that I say I am. And that came in little tiny steps, and there were 12 of them.

Anybody else?

OK, great. Thank you so much panelists. And I think so Roger can do the tape. Let's take a 5 minute break and start again at 3:15.