The Sandlapper Roundup VII in Myrtle Beach, SC

Thank you, Jerry. My name is Ernie Raskauskas, and I am an alcoholic. I see you give your sobriety dates here. Well, I want you to know this. I've been sober long enough to have good teeth, but I don't have them tonight. I broke a bridge. So if I'm the only big book, somebody that's new here, that's going to see, believe me, you'll, you'll, you'll have good teeth in time.

And the second thing is I've been in a, a, a long time

look at me and see I've been someplace a long time. And my sobriety date is the 16th of February 1961.

Thank you, for which I thank the God of my understanding. A loving and supportive wife who is a good al Anon people like yourselves. Vigorous sponsorship from my sponsor and the principles and steps of this program.

I'm going to start with a little story tonight. I've told it before, but I like the story and I like the way I tell it. And

seeing you all here this afternoon, this evening reminded me this story. You know, it seems that there's a man that lived a good life and he worked hard and he was thrifty and he was industrious and he died and he went to heaven and he got up to heaven. And Saint Peter said, what denomination do you belong to? And he said, I don't belong to any denomination. I just try to do right in my life and live the best I could.

And Saint Peter said, well, he said, I'm sorry, but up here we keep people by denomination. And what I'm going to do is take you around to some rooms. And since you don't have a denomination, I'm going to let you pick one out for yourself. So he took him to the first room and he opened up the door, and there's a lot of people in there clutching rosaries. They were kneeling and they were praying and they were sweating.

And he said to Saint Peter, who are these people? Saint Peter says these are the Catholics. A lot of them don't even know they're up here yet.

And

the man says you have any other choices.

And Saint Peter took him to the next row and

and in the next room it was like a it was like an old Presbyterian Chapel there. All of the

all of the pews there and the women were all tailored and very prissy and the men were there with starch collars and everybody was very severe and looking straight ahead. And they all had long faces and little thin blue lips. And

he said, who are these people? And Saint Peter said, these are the Protestants. And the guy said, please. He said, not for eternity. While Saint Peter says, look, we have one more room. And he took him to the next room. And here people are in there laughing and joking. They're hugging one another. And the guys almost knocked over with the billows of smoke that come out of there and the aroma of coffee.

And he said he he got brightened up a little bit. He said. Who are these people?

Saint Peter says. We don't know,

he says. Furthermore, these folks say they're only here a day at a time.

I found out here in AA that you, you are those people and you're the group I want to be with. You know, a little bit of nostalgia tonight, your taper this evening. I first met him in 1965, the night that he came to his first meeting.

And your stepson is Brenda is now the chairman of your area there. I happen to be the chairman of the area in Washington, DC I'm from Potomac, MD, incidentally belonged to the Potomac Sunday night speakers meeting and to review our geography a little bit. The District of Columbia is a 10 mile square and to the north is Maryland. To the South across the Potomac River is Virginia and RAA activity takes place in the whole metropolitan area there. And I was the chairman of the

General Services Assembly at the time, and I was dutiful. I had been invited to come to a meeting. Instead of coming there and leading a discussion or telling my story, I came dragging this big slide projector and showing this general service film about how they do it in New York. And that night we were having a lot of trouble. I just turn the lights on and then that fool with the thing. OK, turn them off. And then

show it. And then the thing would break down again. And so it wasn't a very good meeting for someone's first meeting. And that was Dick's first meeting. Then night. And Buck says we better take this guy across the street

to the hot shop. And we went over there and Dick, Buck pounded on him for about two hours. And you could you could see Bucks identifying mark, the blue mark on the chest from having the finger pointed like this. And I'm sure you've been sober ever since then, haven't you? Since that first night. And I've known Jerry in a group that Dick started the Foxhall group. Now, all the groups in a a every place are good,

but the Foxhall group was in the fashionable area of Washington and important people came there, senators and congressmen and spouses of people like this and from people from the White House. And there's a story, I don't know how true it is. And Jerry was a member in good standing of that group. I heard a story about couple of people were sitting in the front row and the speaker said something a guy didn't understand and said to the next guy says what did he mean by that? And the guy says, I don't know, I'm just here a secret.

He was there on on duty. But I mean, it was that kind of a group. And it was a very popular, very popular, very big speakers meeting group on Monday and their discussion meeting on Thursday. And Jerry's a thoughtful guy. I remember he hadn't seen me maybe for six or eight months. And he knew my anniversary was coming up and he gave me a call. I don't know if you even remember that, Jerry. And you've invited me to come down there,

share my my, my celebration that evening at the Foxhall Group. So it's very nice to be here. I have the warm fuzzy's tonight.

There's some lawyers I know in the group here that belong to the international ILA, a pretentious name. International lawyers at AA were just lawyers of all kinds. There's nothing international about us except we have some guys from Canada and so few from Europe and and England and so forth. And Tom over here from my old group in Potomac and

a lady here, very delightful lady that did a lot of wonderful counseling at a treatment center that I had the privilege, a non profit place to be the chairman of some years ago

and other people that I've met over the years. So this this fellowship is a wonderful thing. And I know at a meeting this big, there's usually some people that are new or relatively new. And I'd like to at the outside share this with the newer people as a matter in fact, in a a when we speak, we speak to everyone, but I usually direct my talk mostly at the newer person.

But if you're new here tonight,

you look around this room, we have a nice group here, nice crowd. We have maybe 15 to 20 times as many people here tonight as there were in a A in the entire world 60 years ago today. Isn't that amazing? 15 to 20 times as many people here as there were an A A in the world. And today there are over 97,000 registered groups of A A around the world.

We all know that there are lazy secretaries

and I'm sure there's another 3000 that are functioning and unregistered, which means that you and I can go to over 100,000 places in the world this week and walk in. I can walk in and say my name is Ernie and I'm an alcoholic and the people will already know a whole lot about me and they'll accept me and, and we'll share with each other and will not be afraid to be mutually vulnerable.

You know we have many side gifts and benefits

in this fellowship. One of the great gifts is that I can take the mask off that I hid behind so much of my drinking life and not be afraid to have you see me as I am because I know that you will expect accept me. And to echo what Brenda said this evening in her wonderful message, she said that she was never comfortable where she was when she was drinking. And I was the same way too. I always wanted to be someplace else

because I was running from myself,

but I can tell you tonight that I'd rather be right here, right now, with all of you, than any place else on the face of the earth. And for this I am indeed grateful. And it's a very good feeling to feel that comfortable because I've learned the reality of my own life after all these years. I'm glad I finally learned something about it, because some of us are starting to run out of time. But

this is my world right now, you know? We live moment to moment.

You and I don't know what's going to happen when we walk through that door or down the street or go back home or whatever. So this is, this is our reality and I'm happy to savor it, to get everything I can out of it this moment.

Now, I didn't think this way and didn't feel this way before I came here. Let me say something else to the not only to the new people, but to the people that have been around. I was chairman of that General Service Assembly and a couple years later I had the privilege of going to New York in 1967, being the delegate from the Washington area. And there was an older gentleman that used to like to sit in the back of the room

and keep an eye on things to see how we were doing. And his name was Bill Wilson.

And it was one of the great moments of my life to meet in fellowship with Bill back there. And that year, to give you a little example about the the humility that this fellowship teaches and instills of all of us, Bill wrote a book he and it was just published that year and he autographed it. I have the autographed copy at home. He has it signed ever, Bill,

and it was called the A a way of life. And you a as

got on him and said, Bill, who are you to write a book called the A a way of life? You can write a book about how Bill sees it. And so next year they change the color of the color from cover from Gray to orange and change the title from the AA way of life to as Bill sees it. And I was there for that that event. But the first night I was in New York, Bill gave a talk, a marvelous talk that we all need to remember.

And in his talk, he referred to people like Doctor Silkworth here, the little Doctor Who loved drugs, the people like Sister Ignatia, who took the vows of poverty, chastity and obedience. And she broke the rule of obedience because she smuggled a drunken there into the room that they kept the flowers in in the hospital at the request of Doctor Bob, the co-founder of A A

and the the the thrust of Bill's talk that night was and it was a marvelous talk.

He went through the history of all of the stages of a a but for the intervention and the help of a non alcoholic, one of our friends that our fellowship would not have moved to the next level. The guidance we had. And I've sometimes heard right from the rostam when my wife, a good woman, has been sitting in the audience. I've heard people say I don't trust anybody that's not in a A and I feel like screaming out. You mean you wouldn't trust Mother

Teresa? You know,

so we have many friends, and we have to remember that. And we're not a cult. I'm not here to preach. I'm sharing

now. I started out by saying my name is Ernie Raskus and I'm an alcoholic, and I'm going to explain what I mean when I say I'm an alcoholic. I've learned how definitions are so important. As a matter of fact, you all read the papers. You know, the trouble we're having in Washington right now, trying to figure out what sexual relations means. You know,

very funny thing. I mean, we just can't figure it out.

But

when I say I'm an alcoholic, I make one simple admission and that is that I cannot take a drink safely. That's all that I admit. I don't admit when I say I'm an alcoholic that I'm necessarily but probably neurotic, psychotic, weak willed, wishy washy, shiftless, lazy, no account

unemployed, unemployable, of little learning or of poor background.

All of the things that I associated with Alcoholics and alcoholism before I met you good people. I thought alcoholism was strictly an organization that had been started by bums

and that was of course wrong. I mean the Co founders of a A1 was a stockbroker, one was a physician, a surgeon and a a number three was a lawyer. Two out of three isn't bad, is it?

Now this definition of an alcoholic, I heard from my sponsor to be the day I came to my first a a meeting, he said. Ernie says an alcoholic, simply a person that can't take a drink safely.

We have an allergy coupled with an obsession and on and on. And I went to the meeting that night very, very reluctantly. You know, I didn't come to that first meeting and say, thank goodness I'm in the right place. I've come home. These are my people.

I came here kicking and screaming because there were a lot of I never's in my background.

There's a lot of I numbers and a lot of people's background tonight that will not be I never's tomorrow morning. There are people all over the United States tonight that can say I've never been arrested for driving while under the influence. Tomorrow morning they're not going to be able to say that. So we have to remember that too. But I wasn't again thinking that way. I was never a daily drinker. I was never a morning drinker.

I was never a spree drinker. I've never been on a treatment center. I've never consulted a physician

because of my drinking, never had a prescription because of drinking, never been fired from a job because of drinking,

never been divorced because of drinking or any other reason. You might say, what's this guy going to talk about tonight?

Like some of you, I accumulated some unjust arrest and

I had maybe while I was in college and law school, somewhere between 8:00 and 12:00, arrest, Republican toxication. It was easy in those days to be a schoolboy in Washington, be waiting for the streetcar to go back to campus. And

the streetcar is light and you've had a few drinks and I'd be sitting on the card, but not off to sleep. And the cop comes along with the nightstick, says, all right, let's go take you down to the precinct and you'd have to pay 10 bucks to get out in the morning. And that's that's what they used to do. And I accumulated, as I say, I don't know, 8/10/12 the rest. I wish I had kept better records. I didn't know that there would come a time in my life where it would be a matter of prestige here in a A.

Also,

for all I know, a A could come out with a pension plan. I could lose out on some of my benefits. But anyhow,

after I after I

became a lawyer, I was only arrested once for public intoxication. And I think that was because to uphold the standards of my profession, I was drinking in better places. And but as a result of that one arrest, I got the nickname in a A by which Jerry introduced me of Ernie the attorney. Now, I think in the 10 years that I was married before I came into a A,

I don't think I drank 1/5 of liquor at home. I don't think I drank a case and a half a beer at home. I was not one of these guys that sat around in front of the boob tube in his underwear all numbed up, snapping that six pack. I did my drinking out. I like the bright lights. I like the music. I like to drink with people. I like to share myself. I like people to enjoy my company, my erudition, my wit,

and, you know, my stories. I was a raconteur, but occasionally,

occasionally when I felt low, when I felt down, I preferred to do solitary drinking in a lower class bar. And there was good reason for this. If you're feeling low and if you're feeling down and you go into a low class bar, you can look around at the other customers and get an immediate lift, a feeling. I'm better than these people. And there was a bar like that on 15th St. in Washington, Jimmy's, a basement bar.

And I remember going in there one night and I sat at the first stool. I was drinking a little vodka, an orange juice,

and there's a roll of tired old men sitting there in these long army coats I've been given at the mission, and nobody's in there arguing baseball or politics or anything like that. Everybody's in there having their private fun. These guys were all talked out 20 years ago. You know, I sat down, started funny around myself. I was making circles on the bar with my glass and arranging my change. And we gave up a lot when we came in here, you know that.

But

and then I was having a meditation.

I started having a meditation. I was thinking about how, you know, you really had to work hard, kid, you were in a service. You're over in Korea. You were

worked in the steel mills in western Pennsylvania. You had to work your way through law school and other guys that went to law school when they graduated, the family gave them a nice convertible, a big car, some major gift like that. You got out of law school, you got a wife and three kids and a lot of bills. And I was having a meditation like this. I actually I was enjoying it, you know, thinking boy, you have had a tough kid, you know, and sort of wall ring of that a little bit and.

The old men and myself, we were sitting there like as if we were watching a

tennis match. We kept looking at the door every time it opened. I don't know who we were expecting, but we looked the wrong way that night because the action that night came from a far corner of the bar room.

Over there, there was a drunken woman. Bad,

very bad. Now this woman, I don't know if she got the wrong drink or the wrong change or what happened, but she got in a bad argument with the owner, who was a pretty good drinker himself, Jimmy. And they get the hollering back and forth and arguing and on and on. And the old men now are getting annoyed. And finally this woman hurled some curse words there that shook up the whole row of us,

and the old man took the attitude. We thought this was a respectable low class place.

Jimmy got on a phone, called the police up. They were there in 2 minutes. I'm sitting there sipping my vodka and luxuriating and being so close to this trouble,

not being involved yet,

and the cops go over. This woman is like Annie the cop fighter. She's over there swinging her purse around like a lariat. And Jimmy had this furniture like they put in nowadays into these old timey ice cream parlors to make them look old-fashioned. You've seen these chairs with the wire legs and the wire back and the tables.

That was Jimmy's original equipment. He didn't buy it as a decorating item. That's, that's the way he was furnished there. And they're dragging these two. Police are having a terrible time. They're dragging her and half the furniture out. And as they dragged her by my stool, I don't know what happened. An inspiration. I reached into my pocket and I took out one of my lawyer cards. I used to carry a lot of them

and I held my arm out and I says, baby, if they give you a hard time,

call Ernie the attorney. And I never got to take my arm back. I got jerked right out to the Paddy wagon with her

and she and I wrote down of the number 2 precinct together.

Our experience, strength and hope with each other.

Now,

Kevin over here that's taping happens to know a little girl in Washington that's in a a who is the daughter of my law partner that had to come down and bail me out the next morning. But it was a terribly humiliating and embarrassing. I had to call him up and he came down and bailed me out 'cause I didn't. I was operating on thin money that evening and I didn't have the 10 ski to get myself out of jail.

But in those days

my philosophy was bigger, and he works hard and he plays hard. That's still my philosophy. I was a trial lawyer, litigator, and at that time I was practicing a lot of criminal law. Rough, tough criminal lawyer. And after a tough day in court or an arduous day in the office listening to witnesses or clients, I've never been a very good listener.

5:00 would roll around and I'd meet. I'd call one of the guys up or one of my classmates would call me up

and would meet at a place that was convenient amongst our offices. And Justice, a block away from my office was a very fashionable hotel, the Jefferson Hotel. Now the Jefferson Hotel is not, you never saw anybody there with A tag on it. Not that kind of place. Nobody's hollering across the lobby. Hey, Charlie, you know none of that stuff. Every it's hushed tones and striped pants and that kind of a place. And they had a terrific Oregon player there,

could tell the mood I was in as I walked in. If I was in the mood for show tunes, it'd be that. Get on the show tunes. I was a pretty good tipper, you know, with my rent money. But anyhow,

if I had a Spanish mystique about me that night, he'd play my theme song, which was I get ideas, adios, muchachos. Most of you probably too young to remember that number.

Tangos. I like tangos anyhow.

I would. I was sort of the leader of the group. I'd order around and everybody's just getting settled in. I'm ordering the next round. And you know, I'd have get that first drink with unrelaxed me, unwind me and I'd start on a second drink and then I'd slip away and I'd call Kathy up. She's here in the front row. Poor woman. Anyhow,

I'd call her up and I'd say, Kathy, you and the kids go ahead and eat.

And at that time we had six children, were Catholic

and we wound up with eight couple in sobriety. We practiced the rhythm system, but

we never got the never got the beat. That was our problem anyhow,

I says. Kathy, you and the kids go ahead and eat.

Soon as I can shake loose, I'm with some clients. Soon as I can shake loose, I'll be right along

and the musics playing in the background. She say, Ernie, please, please don't stay out and get drunk again tonight. Imagine talking that way to a professional man like me, gets his name in the papers and everything I says. Kathy, since you're taking this attitude, I am going to stay out tonight

just to let you know who's boss in our house. See, this was before women's Lib. And

so I'd hang up that receiver. Now I could go drink with a clear conscience because I never used to drink comfortably. I always drank with this cloak of responsibility, with this mantle of guilt, this pressure. You know, I'd have a couple of drinks and I'd say, well, 6:00 I'm going to get out of here, you know,

and 6:00 and then somebody would buy around and, you know, would wind up closing the place. Well, so on a typical night around 8:00, I'd go to order around one of the guys that'd say, hey, hold up, I've had enough. Let's say you mean in a Shank of the evening. And I'd get upset and the party would break up and I would go back. And at that time, I'm practically getting up to that now. I'm Brenda talked about gaining weight. I used to run 4 miles a day and eight miles sometimes on weekend. And I have a bad hip.

I quit running, but I didn't quit eating. Guess what happened? But anyhow, at that time I was worse than I am now. Weighed 308 lbs

to show you how alcohol is cunning, baffling and powerful. I thought I was too fat to be an alcoholic. What do you think of that? My idea of an alcoholic in those days was one of these little skinny guys that sort of blows around in the wind. Have you seen them? And they have pants with a lot of slack in them. Look like their rear end is shot off in World War 2.

That was an alcoholic.

I was too well nourished to be an alcoholic. But

but anyhow, I went back and I'd tidy up my 308 LB body and sail out onto the town and through Cafe Society as I then fashioned it in Washington. And invariably I would wind up in some lounge. 1:45 in the morning they're turning the lights up. Last call and I've just met these fascinating new found friends,

wonderful attractive people and I was pretty persuaded. I talked to them into going on after hours place in China town and I used to roll in 345 in the morning

and maybe that's why I didn't need the morning drink I talked about earlier if you were serious about your drinking like I was you're still humming those show tunes now poor Kathy tried every approach in the books. She tried the confrontation which only resulted in a big fight. Then she had another approach and she hates me to imitate her this way. And it's

what I call the grinding approach. And Brenda was talking about perceptions. She doesn't sound this way, but this, this was my perception.

I'd come down in the morning and should. This is after being out all night and should say Ernie

earn knee. The children's report cards came in yesterday. You were supposed to sign them and review them and we're supposed to turn them in today and you weren't here. Ernie sister called about Joey's hair. Joey had hair down to his shoulders. He looked like a little Jesus,

and this was when all the other kids remembers. Before The Beatles, all the rest were wearing flat tops.

And you weren't here. I couldn't take. I'm pregnant. She was always pregnant, that woman.

I, she says I couldn't take him out for a haircut. And what's just, they're going to say now and I'd have to sit there and listen to this stuff. What could I say? I mean, she was right. Now another thing should do. I'd come down in the morning and should be doing her job, making scrambled eggs for the kids and so forth. And she wouldn't be friendly. She wouldn't be unfriendly, but she would be no excess conversation,

you know, And I'd have a little coffee. And I have one eye closed, trying to focus on the paper.

And I'm waiting for the bombs to fall. And some of us are a little impatient, let's say. OK, Kathy, cut the ACT.

I know what's bugging you. It's my drinking. But you know, it's a real problem. Is the real problem is that you're not normal like other women? That's the real problem. Let me explain that. My wife on our 21st birthday. We both met at Catholic University as students.

Couple of her girlfriends took her down to the Wharf on the Potomac to a nice seafood restaurant. She had her first drink of beverage alcohol,

she got a little tipsy, she got a little silly, she got a little nauseous, a little uncomfortable and decided she didn't like the stuff. She hasn't had a drink from that day till this day. Kathy is now 49 years sober. What do you think of that?

I says, if you were like other women, I'd come home. We could I'd mix up a pitcher of martinis. We could have a drink together. This was a lie. My idea of a of a, you know, a fun wasn't to have all these little hands with Jelly on them pulling on my trousers. I fixed my wagon, Daddy. But I said, Kathy, if my drinking bothers you this much, I'm going to quit

now is studying all these philosophy courses at Catholic University. So I'd speak in those terms. I'm going to quit Kathy Semper, pro Semper, as the philosopher say, meaning always and forever, like out into the ether. And as I'd say this, I'd feel so noble,

my eyes would sort of messed up with the inner goodness I saw in myself.

Not only was I going to quit drinking because we're bringing these little pictures home from school of the grey lung, I was going to quit smoking. A lot of surprises I had in store for this family told you how much I weighed. I was going to go on a diet

and I hadn't been a confession in a long time. Saturday is going to go to confession and Sunday is going to March up to the communion rail with the kids.

And it, you know, it, it does something emotionally to me right now, thinking of this spontaneous

physical, spiritual and emotional regeneration of a man. But when I said those things, I meant them. Did you? I meant them. I was pretty persuaded, persuasive too. So Kathy would say, OK, Ernie, I'm going to see if you keep your promise this time. Nowadays they call that enabling. We have all these new terms now.

I mean, when I came into AA codependent was something you put on your tax return. Now it has a whole different meeting. But anyhow,

so I would get downtown that day and just go through the motions. Go through the motions. Ferocious hangovers I was having by this stage of my drinking, three and four day. Unbelievable, Hank. That first day I couldn't even light a cigarette to be afraid my head would blow off and sweating profusely. Could be 0° weather, sweating

and I can't get enough hydration. I'm stopping at every fountain in court,

at the seven elevens, getting the big Ballers of orange pop, ginger ale and everything.

Get through that day and day #2 but I'd come home like I promised. I'm home at 6:00. Day #2 I'm still hungover and I get up. I got, I'm feeling a little bit better. I can go down. I'm well enough to check the mail, see if any money came in.

I'm home at 6:00. Again. Kathy's encouraged day #3 get up in the morning, get a little peg on her cheek as I leave the house. I go downtown, I get some work done. I'm home at 6:00. Kathy has this marvelous meatloaf dinner of hers. I'm going to give you the recipe. It's 1 LB of ground meat, basic ground meat, about six or seven loaves of bread stuffed into it.

This meatloaf Catholics could eat on Friday under the old rules.

I mean, it was pretty skimpy.

And after dinner, we'll take the overdue books back to the library

or go to the five and 10, do a little shopping. And things are things are now getting back to the way they should be. And day #4 I wake up in the morning. I'm 33 years old and I'm well. I feel like a young lion. I go over and I throw the window open on a bedroom and take a big deep breath of air. It's great to be alive. And I charge out of the house with vigor.

You know, I heard Father Martin not too long ago

talk about four terrible enemies of sobriety, youth,

health, wealth and brains.

And I'll tell you, in my experience, I've seen people too smart to make this program. I've never seen anyone too dumb to make it. And I'd go downtown and when those good days come along, you have to grab them. And I'd get a lot of work done. I'd get so much work done. I'd be so charged up with accomplishment that at 5:00 I couldn't go home and inflict myself on my family in that agitated state. I'd stop for a beer

and I'm off to the races again. Sometimes I get almost home neighborhood bar and then work my way back downtown to the bright lights.

I crept in one morning about four or five, got a little rest, had some coffee and started a creep out and Kathy stopped me. February 1961. She says. Arnie, wait a minute, I took you. For better or for worse, the children were in a party to that agreement. I'm leaving today. I'm going to your elderly parents or mine, whichever will have us. Any life is better than this.

And I'll tell you my friends, I didn't argue with her that day. I knew that I had run out of promises

and I went downtown and I wasn't humming the show tunes. And right behind the hangover, the terrible lash of remorse set in. And I don't know if anyone other than an alcoholic can experience the remorse that we can, That feeling of worthlessness and impending doom. And I got a little rest in my office

and I was due in federal court at 10:00 AM

in motions court. And I was number one on the calendar. And it's terrifying to think the procession of events, how they unfold for some of us, almost either guided or happenstance that brings us here. Maybe if I wasn't number one on that calendar that morning, it might not have unfolded that way. But I went in and argued my emotion. I came out of court at 11:00

and I stood there on a corner federal courthouse and I looked at the Capitol building,

practically in the shadow of the US Capitol. And it was a bleak, Gray, funereal February day. And there was dirty snow in the gutter leftover from Kennedys inauguration. A few you remember what a tremendous snowstorm we had when Kennedy was inaugurated a month earlier. And I stood there and I felt just like the dirt I saw in that snow and I I couldn't go to my office. I needed to talk to somebody else.

And this guy

whose office I walked down to, I had never been drinking buddies with them. Our paths had crossed that way. He had been a consultant in a case I had once a criminal case and why I went to his office on island and I sat down and I, I said, Hugh, come on down, have a cup of coffee with me. He says, I'll send out for coffee. And so I sat down. We had the coffee and somehow we got around to the subject of the evils of booze

and we were talking for a while and Hugh said to me, says Ernie, I haven't had a drink in six months. And I said, Gee, that's wonderful, Hugh, because everyone knows what a drunk you are.

He didn't like that. And then he dropped a bombshell on me. He says I'm in a A and I said no.

You a former bomber pilot, you AX Assistant United States Attorney. You a rough and tumble criminal lawyer?

You're with those tambourine rattlers or whatever those people do

and justice. Then the phone. But let me tell you what the context of my life was at that moment, at the moment you made this disclosure. My wife was leaving that day.

I hadn't filed a federal tax return in five years. I owned one suit of clothes. I had a dry cleaner that was a client near my home. I used to, on the way downtown, stop in his place and stand in the back, would discuss politics and so forth while he pressed my pants so I'd look decent downtown. I remember once he told me, he said, you know, these pants are so thin, I'm going to have to tell you that I'm pressing them at your own risk, Ernie, you know,

and almost nothing left of that suit.

We had no credit cards. Our furniture looked like something the Flintstones had given a goodwill. We were five months behind on our rent where I lived. I was behind on a rent in the office.

I had no checking account. You hear people in a a talk about bouncing checks. I beat that. My deposit bounced. The last deposit I made to the National Bank of Washington, they sent my money back. They said you're too much trouble. We're closing the account. You know that couple years ago that bank went down to tubes and I'm here sober and solvent tonight. You hear people that are their lawyers money on these DWI cases. I would my client's money.

I used to borrow money from my clients.

Source than people who trust you. You know,

we owed about 2530 thousand. This isn't 61. That's like owing 100 and 5000 and 75 today with nothing to show for it, no credit. And so that was our situation. And when Hugh told me he was in a a, you know what emotion I felt, I felt sorry for him.

Talk about the second step.

As we were talking, the phone rang and it was my sponsor to be calling the great Buck Doyle. And Buck says, you, you want to go to the AA lunch in the day. They have a luncheon 3 * a week, still have it. And I still go. And Hugh said, yeah, he says incidentally, there's a fat one here you might want to talk to. I'm not having too much luck with him. And Hugh hung up the phone and he said, Ernie says, why don't you come to this a a luncheon. We have sponsors in a, a I'd like you to meet this guy. He's a man's man.

He flew in the 14th Air Force over in China with General Chennault and it's up with Remington Ran and

and in their government sales department and you got to meet the. I says, well yeah, that'd be nice, but he says why don't you come to this luncheon? I says my wifes leaving today, I'm not interested in going to some luncheon. She says, look, I'll even buy your lunch. I says no thanks. Then I got an idea. I says wait a minute, if I go to this lunch,

will you tell him I filled the forms out and everything, Call my wife up and tell her I've joined this AA thing and he said we don't have any forms, but we will call her up. So I went to the lunch. I was impressed with the guys I met there. They were my kind of people. They were the drinking set only they're sitting there eating these big chocolate sundaes, you know? And we came back to Hughes office and Buck got on the phone, called my wife up. Luckily our phone was on. We used to have a lot of utility trouble in those days with the electric.

I remember once, Kathy, it's a true story, was putting a chicken or a Turkey in the oven and their gas didn't work. There was no gas there. But anyhow, so Buck called Kathy up and he said, Kathy, this is Buck Doyle. I'm an alcoholic and I'm in A and we're sitting here talking to Ernie and Ernie thinks he might have a problem with alcohol. What do you think? What do you think? She thought you know,

and Buck was a terrific salesman, he said. Ernie's agreed to go to a meeting tonight. And you may not have any confidence in this big clown,

but maybe you can have some confidence in this A, A program. It's worked for me. It's worked for the lawyer whose office we're sitting in. It's worked for a couple of 100,000 people. That's how many were in a A at that time. And Ernie said to go to a meeting, why don't you stick around and see what happens? And she said, OK. And that night I went to my first A, a meeting over in Virginia. A lot of people think I live across the river in Virginia because Buck lived there and he ordered me to go to meetings over there right from that first night. And believe it or not, in those days

we used to do what our sponsor told us to do.

Buck then was sponsoring amongst many, many other people, he was sponsoring like 3 priests and three lawyers and he had the nickname of Monsignor Doyle. And we were all hoping he'd be promoted to Bishop that way. Would only have to kiss his ring because he was, He was not, like they say today, non judgmental. He was very judgmental about the rules.