Big Book Workshop at the 24 hour group in Fort Worth, TX

OK. And one thing I want to say at the beginning of the forward to the third edition, AAA is now 41 years old. So first edition, we were four years old.

Uh, second edition. That's OK. It's just the tape. That's OK. We got two CD's going to So Cool

2nd edition. We wore, what did I say, 20 years old, 20 years old, the 2nd edition, and now in 1976 AAS 41 years old. So it's just kind of reflecting the change in our membership, says by March 1976, when this edition went to the printer, the total worldwide membership of Alcoholics Anonymous was conservatively estimated at more than 1,000,000,

with almost 28,000 groups meeting in over 90 countries.

So we went from 100 members to now we got over 1,000,041 years later.

Does anybody have any doubt still that this program works?

Surveys of groups in the United States and Canada indicate that A is reaching out not only to more and more people, but to a wider and wider range. Women now make up more than 1/4 of our membership. Among newer members, the proportion of is nearly one third, 7% of the A a surveyed or less than 30 years of age, among them, many in their teens. And I was in the 7% when I came in because I was 23. And

again, you don't see as many young people staying around anymore. We see a lot of young people come. We get a lot of young people here at the 24, but we don't see as many really stay sober long term. I haven't yet. We do have a couple of members that come here that did get sober in their teams, 2 ladies. There's two girls I can think of that got sober when they were 17 years old, 18, and that's almost unheard of.

The basic principles of the A a program,

it appears, hold good for individuals with many different national many different lifestyles, just as the program

has brought recovery to those of many different nationalities. The 12 steps that summarize the program may be called Los Dosay passos in one country, let's do as tapas in another, but they trace exactly the same path to recovery that was blazed by the earliest members of Alcoholics Anonymous. In spite of the great increase in the size and the span of this fellowship, at its core it remains simple and personal.

Each day, somewhere in the world, recovery begins

when one alcoholic talked with another alcoholic, sharing experience, strength and hope. And again, that summarizes our whole program in one paragraph. One alcoholic sharing with another. So forward to the 4th edition.

A A is 66 years old at this point.

This is the 4th edition of Alcoholics Anonymous. Came off the press in November 2001, at the start of a new Millennium. Since the 3rd edition was published in 1976,

worldwide membership of AA has just about doubled to an estimated 2 million or more, with nearly 100,800 groups meeting in approximately 150 countries around the world.

OK, so from 1976 to 9. Excuse me, 1976 to 2001,

we've got another million members at least.

So I mean we, we at least doubled in that 25 year period than we did in the prior 41 years from 1939 to 76. This is again and I and I believe if we continue, continue carrying the message of of the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous, we will continue to grow. But if we keep bringing in all these outside issues of drug addiction, treatment center philosophy, all these things,

we're really hindering our growth. We really, really are. And see, we don't realize it either. You don't know until you know. And so I think you cannot go wrong with sharing a big book message because it's something that was written a long time before we ever came around.

Literature has played a major role in a as growth. To reiterate what I was just saying, in a striking phenomenon of the past quarter century has been the explosion of translations of our basic literature and event into many languages and dialects.

In country after country where the AA seed was planted. It has taken root slowly at first, then growing by leaps and bounds when literature has become available.

Currently, Alcoholics Anonymous has been translated into 43 languages.

It's pretty important stuff. As a message of recovery has reached larger numbers of people, it has also touched the lives of a vastly greater variety of suffering Alcoholics. When the phrase we are people who normally would not mix. Page 17 of this book was written in 1939. It referred to a fellowship composed largely of men and a few women with quite similar social, ethnic and economic backgrounds. Like so much of A as basic text, those words have proved to be far more visionary than the founding

could have ever imagined. The stories added to this edition represent a membership whose characteristics of age, gender, race and culture have widened and have deepened to encompass virtually everyone the 1st 100 members could have hoped to reach. So it just reiterates how much our membership has changed and, you know, in the last 66 years. At this point

in 1939, we were, you know, there were 100 members and they were all very similar

social, economic and ethnic background. Now we have all different kinds of people. OK. And this is just reflecting that. It says while our literature is preserved, the integrity of the a message sweeping changes in society as a whole are reflected in new customs and practices within the fellowship,

taking advantage of technological advances. For example, AAA members with computers can participate in meetings online, sharing with fellow Alcoholics across the country or around the world. And I don't know if any of you guys have ever been in an online a, a meeting. I've been in a couple, OK. I ended up getting out of it because it was just kind of a, a kind of a selfish habit. I'd get in and I'd stay in it for five or six hours on these a, a chat line really not talking about much. A lot of the people that were in there,

you know, had just gotten a desire chip and there wasn't a lot of recovery in some instances. But I might have not been on the, on some of the better chats anyway. But if you, if you want to and you need somebody to talk to and you got a computer, go online. You can get in an AA chat room and you can talk to members online.

I mean, this is stuff that was not available to the first hundred members. And those cats stayed sober and they found their way. And, man, we got virtually everything available to us now. And we're so selfish that we're not growing, we're not changing. You know,

if we can get back to the philosophy of those first hundred members will be a lot better, better organization in in a, in a greater sense of helping more Alcoholics. I mean,

in a meeting anywhere a a share experience, strength and hope with each other in order to stay sober and help other Alcoholics. Modem to modem or face to face. A a speak the language of the heart in all its power and simplicity. And I'm going to sit down now and we're going to invite Matthew to come up.

He's going to start laying out the hopelessness of the doctor's opinion. So you guys put your hands together for Matthew. Thank you.

Yay, Matthew. Yay.

Well, my name is Matthew Massey and I'm an alcoholic. Hey, Matthew. And I want to hear a round of applause for Scott.

First off, I did want to also acknowledge that we have, we do have a basket over there. Any questions that anybody might have, feel free to drop them in and either me or Scott will do the best that we can to answer them based on the literature.

This this next portion, I'm going to go into a little bit of the AA history on the doctors opinion and on the importance of it. And then we're going to go into the the doctor's opinion itself. And and I do want to let you all know any information that I read to y'all is going to either be out of

the language of the heart, which is a a approved book. It's got a it's all Bill WS writings. So it's excuse me, it's it's on a lot of good stuff. Any this is a good book just to get if you want to know on different issues and Alcoholics Anonymous. It kind of singles them out, especially dealing with traditions,

you know, just terms like anonymity or self supporting. You know, it'll, it'll, it'll talk about that one particular principle rather than the whole tradition, but it does talk about the whole tradition as well. So it's helped me greatly. OK, Scott kind of gave us a, a little bit of the a, a history and then the preface and the full words and this noxious opinion. It's,

I'll tell you what, the first time I ever read the Doctor's Opinion, I must have been an Alcoholics Anonymous for six months. And the reason why I I read it was because I was listening to a big book study by Joe and Charlie. And in this study they said that the doctors opinion used to be the first chapter in the book of Alcoholics Anonymous and they moved it into the Roman numerals. And they said a lot of people are missing this chapter now because

who the heck wants to look at the table of contents and,

and all that stuff? So they skip, they skip to chapter one. And, and I can testify, and I don't know if anyone else has had this problem, but has, has anyone here ever went to sponsor someone and they didn't know what to tell this guy because the guy asked you, will you be my sponsor? And I've always wanted to offer my services to someone. And and I'm telling this guy what to do, but I'm telling him the wrong thing because I skip him right over the doctor's opinion.

Yeah, yeah, I'm one of them. I just get people over it. I've skipped it and I have watched numerous people

tell other people to look right past the doctor's opinion. So, so we're going to get into the, the, how important this, this actual chapter is,

I guess by December 11th. It doesn't say here the exact year, but I'm supposing that's 1934. Bill W He, he came into the to the Charles B Towns Hospital. He he, there was a Doctor Silkworth in charge and that that was the chief physician of that hospital.

Doctor Silkwork, it says here for years had been proclaiming alcoholism as an illness, an obsession of the mind coupled with an allergy of the body.

And there that's the medical estimate of, of alcoholism. So Bill comes in here. He's, he's been in there several times already. And, and, and Doctor Silkworth actually thought Bill might recover. And he had seen

a few cases recover.

But this last time that he came in, he realized that Bill was hopeless. And Bill also realized the same thing. And this is what it goes on to say about this. And this is, this is Bill's words himself. He says the verdict of science, the obsession that condemned me to drink and the allergy condemned me to die, was about to do the trick. That's where medical science, personified by the benign little doctor, began to fit in, Held in the hands of one alcoholic talking to the next.

This double edged truth

was the sledgehammer which would shatter the tough Alcoholics ego at depth and lay him wide open for the grace of God. Wow that's they called it the medical sledgehammer back then. The the doctors medical estimate on alcoholism. See, before anything could be done, before they could accept the spiritual principles, they had to believe themselves to be hopeless,

that they couldn't do anything

to get or stay sober. And and that's basically step one. I'm screwed, I'm doomed. I can't. I'm sure you all have heard that before. So then it says in in my case, it was, of course, Dr. Silkworth who slung the sledge while my friend Abby carried to me the spiritual principles. In the grace which brought on my sudden spiritual awakening at the hospital three days later. I immediately knew that I was a free man. And with this

astonishing experience

came a feeling of wonderful certainty that great numbers Alcoholics might one day enjoy the priceless gift which had been bestowed upon me. Very grandiose. You know, he was ready to save the world. I can, I can relate, man. I've been out there trying to save the world too. And and I can say it didn't work, but but I tried and and I didn't lose too many hairs over it.

So, so Bill, he goes out, he's he's out trying to say drunks. The Scott kind of went into it in the

and the forwards. He's now trying to save drunks for about 6 months. I've read stories where he'd have drunks living in his house 5 at a time. And one particular time Lois came home from work to see three drunks sitting stiff and, and just tense and two other drunks beating each other up A2 by fours. And, and this is exactly what I read. This is this is what Bill was doing. Man, he's working with the hopeless type. The hopeless type. He can get him sober,

but none of them stayed sober. Okay. And he, he's trying to figure out what the problem is. You know, it worked for him. It worked for him.

So

this is what happened.

Finally, one day Doctor Silkwood took me down to my right size. He said. Bill, why don't you quit talking so much about the bright light experience of yours? It sounds too crazy, though. I'm convinced that nothing but better morals will make Alcoholics really well, I do think you had the car before the horse. The point is that Alcoholics won't buy all this moral exhortation until they convince themselves that they must.

If I were you, I'd go after them on the medical basis first.

While it has never done any good for me to tell them how fatal their malady is, it might be a very different story if you, a formerly hopeless alcoholic, gave them the bad news. Because of the identification you naturally have with Alcoholics, you might be able to penetrate where I can

give them the medical benefit business 1st and give it to them hard. This is my soften them up so they will accept the principles that will really get them well

wow. So he's out there kind of like we doing here. You know, we got a bunch of newcomers coming in and we're going into spiritual God and this and and and it's this don't it's doing me good. It's doing me a lot of good. But what about this guy that came in here and he asked me to sponsor him and I skipped him right over the medical estimate into Bill story. And there's a solution and he gets to hear about all the spiritual experiences that were supposed to have, but he's not willing to accept those principles in his life because he doesn't realize yet that he's

this maybe he's still got a reservation or a lurking notion, whatever it might be. You know, I, I feel like I'm here only because of God's grace because I also skipped over that. And until I saw the hopelessness in the situation, how I was hopeless, I wasn't really willing to, to, to pursue the spiritual remedy, you know, to go to any length to achieve that sobriety. And and it goes far beyond sobriety for me today, but

so

this is what happened next.

He Scott kind of covered it. It's it's in the.

It's in

Roman numeral

16.

This, this is the first drunk that I could find that he worked with. And

after the doctor told him to put the horse before the car, OK, it says here he was on that that business trip in Akron. The broker had worked hard with many Alcoholics on the theory that only an alcoholic could help an alcoholic, but he had succeeded only in keeping sober himself. The broker had gone to Akron on business venture, which had collapsed, leaving him greatly in fear that he might start drinking again. He suddenly realized that in order to save himself, he must carry his message to another

alcoholic. That alcoholic turned out to be the Akron physician. This physician had repeatedly tried spiritual means to resolve his alcoholic dilemma, but had failed. I watched it happen in here all the time. I've helped a guy skip over the medical estimate so that he could fail as well. I've helped him do that. And I'm not saying it's my fault, but maybe he would have had a better chance if if I'd have laid it, laid out the hopelessness first,

it says here.

But when the broker gave him Doctor Silkhorst description of alcoholism and its hopelessness, the physician began to pursue the spiritual remedy for his malady with a willingness he had never before been able to muster. Oh, and in 1950, he never took another drink again. Wow.

So

obviously we see

that this doctor's opinion, it started the steps, it was the beginning. It's where it all began. And then Abby coming from Abby got sober in the Oxford group. Abby came in, showed him the spiritual principles which would make him a freeman. He had his bright light experience and he never had to take another drink again. And he, I can kind of relate to that. Mine wasn't so profound, but it eventually played out in the same way. I never had to take another drink again. My desire for drinking was gone,

so I'm gonna go ahead and open up here to Roman numeral 25 and we'll go ahead and get on into the doctor's opinion.

It says here we of Alcoholics Anonymous believe that the reader will be interested in the medical estimate of the plan of recovery described in this book. Now

this, this is the doctor. He had already read the pages he'd already experienced watched us grow the 1st 100 people. He we lot of our members in early times came out of his hospital. He let Bill and Doctor Bob go into the his hospital and work with those drunks. They were their test monkeys. So, and I don't know about y'all, but if my doctor says that I got cancer, I'm gonna believe them. And that's one reason why this is in here.

Convincing testimony must surely come from medical men who have had experience with the suffering of our members

and have witnessed our return to hell. A well known doctor, chief physician at a nationally prominent hospital specializing in alcoholic and drug addiction gave Alcoholics Anonymous this letter and and that was the Charles B Towns Hospital in in New York.

OK, to whom it may concern. I have specialized in the treatment of alcoholism for many years. He treated Alcoholics for 20 years, unsuccessfully

defeated, and the man still proclaimed his love to us and his devotion to us. And I believe the reason that this is because he knew we were sick. He knew we were sick. The people out there didn't know we were sick. He knew we were sick.

In late 1934, I attended a a patient who thought he had been a competent businessman. Excuse me, though he had been a competent businessman of good earning capacity, was an alcoholic of a type I had come to regard as hopeless. Bill.

Bill was hopeless. Remember he? And then he finally gave him the medical estimate. And Bill finally could accept the hopelessness of his situation, along with the principles that Abby brought to him. And this is what happened. In the course of his third treatment, he had acquired certain ideas concerning a possible means of recovery. As part of his rehabilitation, he commenced to present this conception to other Alcoholics, impressing upon them that they must do likewise with still others. This has become the basis of a rapidly growing fellowship

of over 100 others. Excuse me,

growing fellowship. These men and their families, this man in over 100 others have appeared to recover. Now, now this is this is real important. The doctor, he couldn't see us even recovering. All he did was watch us die for 20 plus years. He didn't know the solution. He only knew the problem. And that's real important. He didn't have a prescription for our remedy. It was something that medical science could not provide.

So he he says

we appear to have recovered. He's pretty skeptical and and he's skeptical throughout his whole writing. Let's see also, I do want to hit the note on on this 12 step work that we're seeing here. 1 alcohol to another. It actually did start with the Oxford group. They believed in intensive work, one with the other and and they continued. That's where our 12 step actually evolved was from, was from the Oxford Group.

So

I personally know scores of cases who were of the type with whom other methods had failed completely. So other methods besides what was in this book failed completely. He didn't know any other remedies. Remember, only a few cases actually recovered, only a few. So maybe there are other ways out there, but this way has worked. And I think Scott laid that out real well, that it's the the program and this book really works for Alcoholics at the hopeless type.

And it all starts here with this chapter. The doctor's opinion, OK. These facts appear to be of extreme medical importance because of the extra extraordinary possibilities of growth, rapid growth inherent in this group. They may mark a new epoch in the annals of alcoholism. So Alcoholics Anonymous, they made history and alcoholism,

they made the history books.

All the treatment centers that I've ever known are based on

this book right here. Well, they'll give you a choice, this book or the blue book. Which one do you want? And they do kind of tell you some things that might not be right. I believe me, I've been in them before and, and they told me some things. Well, you can just switch this word or that word or this word or that word. But you know, it's,

it's like, it's kind of like it says in in step 12 that that your job is to be where you can be of the most service

and Alcoholics Anonymous where I can serve the best. So

that's what brings me here. You may rely absolutely on anything they say about themselves. Wow, that now, now that that is a characteristic of a recovered alcoholic man. They're practicing that principle of honesty. They are practicing the principle of honesty.

Very yours truly, William D Silk Worth, MD.

And this next portion is kind of Bill, I guess, you know, he had to put his say so in on it, you know. Yeah. So let's go on at it. He kind of there. There is a there's two letters here by by Doctor Silkworth and the 2nd letter Scott's going to come in here and and take over on it. And before the 2nd letter, Bill puts his say so in it says the physician who had our request gave us this letter, has been kind enough to enlarge

on his views. In another statement which follows. In this statement he confirms we who have suffered alcoholic torture must believe so this is a must. This, this is a requirement. They say no requirements, but they got some must. And I don't know about y'all, but a must is definitely a requirement

that the body of the alcoholic is quite as abnormal as his mind. It did not satisfy us to be told that we could not control our drinking just because we were maladjusted to life,

that we were in full flight from reality or outright mental defective. OK, so I can't really adjust to life.

Little bit uncomfortable, discontent, irritability. You know, the obsession.

I could take a few drinks

and I can bring ease and comfort to me and I can sit down at the table with y'all and I don't have to shake my leg and, and, and and all that stuff. I'll be OK. And so I take those few drinks and that's the way it played out in my life. I don't know how many times I've gotten sober, but it played out in my life that way. And I would just take a few drinks. That's all I wanted was a little bit of comfort, ease. I want to relax. I wanted to feel good, OK. And that's what a few drinks would do for me. But what I didn't know was

that I had that sickness of the body, the phenomenon of craving, and every time that few drinks turned into a whole lot of drinks, it turned in from a sensation to oblivion. And that's the way it worked for me. I lived that way for 13 years before I finally just couldn't take it anymore.

OK,

these things were true to some extent, in fact to a considerable extent with some of us, but we are sure that our bodies were sickened as well. In our belief, any picture of the alcoholic which leaves out this physical factor is incomplete. So obviously, if I didn't realize I had a phenomenon of craving, sure, I'm going to keep thinking

that I can just take a few drinks and find that ease and comfort. I want to think that I can just take a few drinks and it's going to happen like that over and over and over. And I didn't even realize when I woke up that I was supposed to have stopped after a few. I'd mark the bottle and then the mark would move down and then the mark would move even lower and then the bottle would be empty. I couldn't stop. I didn't know why I couldn't stop and I didn't even try to figure it out, but I'm glad someone told me why.

The doctor's theory that we have an allergy to alcoholism,

to alcohol interest us as lame in our opinion, as to its soundness may of course mean little, but as X problem drinkers, we can say that his explanation makes good sense. It explains many things for which we cannot otherwise account.

That bottom mark kept moving down the bottle while the bottle would empty it and end up empty every morning. You know, I mean, this is like a a fit, sometimes even 1/2 gallon, you know, not quite the whole thing. Maybe. You know, I hear stories of people drinking, you know, a gallon of whiskey a day. I not that bold, but you know, get 1/2 gallon and I'd be pushing the limits, but I could probably finish it off and, and not even realize until the next morning

though. We workout our solution on the spiritual as well as the ultraistic plane. So spiritual, you know, we're trying to get connected, you know, with what Abby talked about, with what Abby talked about to build those principles, right. But what about after that? What about after we work the 12 steps? Then comes the ultristic plane. Once we become a recovered alcoholic and we can actually care about the next man. We're on the electricity plane. That that unselfishness, the devotion to the welfare of others,

and that's what altruistic is, is there's two parts of the solution there. The doctor just told us, or excuse me, Bill just told us, he just told us, there's two parts, the spiritual and the ultristic. So it'd be pretty selfish of me to just work those steps and then keep it for myself, right?

Well, I don't know if I don't think I could have just worked them and not try to give it away, man. Because they worked on me and I cared about the next man more than I ever could have before I worked on.

We favor hospitalization for the alcoholic who is very jittery or beef fogged. I was down there at central office. Me Mark went down there yesterday and this lady calls in and, and she says that she's think she needs a meeting and she, she's never been to Alcoholics and honest before. And she's thinking about a hospital and, and she goes on. We we're talking for a minute and I had to let her know First off,

that Alcoholics Anonymous has has no opinion on those outside issues. You know, the medical profession is something that we're not. But I had to let her know and she did say she was having some signs of withdrawal. She was shaking, sweating. I had to let her know that this is a life threatening situation here that people die from detoxing from alcoholism. OK, it's, it's more serious than coming off a heroin. And some people might beg to differ, but you know, a heroin addict, as long as they're drinking water,

you know, they're going to be OK versus an alcoholic who'll go into a seizure or, you know, then DTS and die. So it's serious. And I don't know about looking at this, this medical standpoint, if I'm got the phenomenon of craving going, how could I stop? How could I stop? I'm going to need to go into the hospital. Some people need to, I needed to, I went to the hospital. It was a 24 hours of a 24 hour observation. I didn't have any detox symptoms, but I needed to be free of that craving

so that I could not take another drink. It was that craving that was making me continue to drink, so I needed to be free to that.

More often than not. It is imperative that a man's brain be cleared before he is approached, as he has then a better chance of understanding and accepting what he has to offer.

Yeah, I don't know. I try to work with a lot of wet drunks,

you know, it's kind of like talking to a wall. But I felt great afterwards manner. But I got tired of of watching watching the failures. And I realized that they really did need to sober up so that they can actually hear the message that I had to give to him. And in it even tells you in the Working with others chapter that that

they're more receptive once they've sobered up some. The morning after is the best time to get them because there's still remorseful, feeling guilty, shameful, and they're willing to maybe hear what you got to say.

I the next portion is the the 2nd letter. I don't know, Do we want to go into that today or do we want to answer the questions? Let's answer the questions and then we can go ahead and start on it maybe. OK Yeah, there's a question. All right. First off, we got one question that a friend asked

on the six steps from the Oxford Group, and we got those.

She asked what they were. I go ahead and read a paragraph that comes before. Well, let's see. It says Doctor Silkworth had indeed supplied us the missing link without which the chain of principles now forged into our 12 steps could never have been complete. Then and there, the spark that was to become Alcoholics Anonymous had been struck. During the next three years after Doctor Bob's recovery, our growing groups at Akron, New York and Cleveland evolved the so-called word of mouth program of the pioneering

times. As as we commence to form a society separated from the Oxford Group, we began to state our principles, something like this. And this is the first six steps that you sometimes hear about.

Step one, we admitted we were powerless over alcohol. Step two, we got honest with ourselves. Step three, we got honest with another person and confidence.

Step 4:00 we we made amends for harms done others. Step five, we worked with other Alcoholics without demand for prestige or money. Step six, we pray to God to help us to do the things as best we could. They kept it simple back there, huh? Yeah. My, my sponsor laid it out to me that one of the reasons why they turn those into 6 steps or 12 steps

is, is to kind of

make it easier for the alcoholic to accept them into their lives. And I don't know if that's true or not. There is a little more history. We will go into that history down the road, but right now we're kind of keeping it around step one in the doctor's opinion.

So let's see here,

what are your thoughts on 12 stepping an addict?

Well, I have had problems with outside issues myself and I have no problem sitting down with a with a

someone who has those afflictions. I can relate and I can show them how they can relate as well.

So but this is Alcoholics Anonymous and I have worked with pure blooded addicts and Alcoholics Anonymous to watch them make great progress only to go back out and and to do what they do best and that's throw their life away. So what I do is after I'm

kind of help them calm down and show them that they can trust me. I got this, this card right here. It says drug problem. NA call Narcotics Anonymous and it's got their number because I care about them. Okay, because I can relate. But 95% of my story consists of drinking.

And that's why I'm an Alcoholics Anonymous. And, and I, I can imagine how it feels to sit here with everyone else talking about something that you don't know nothing about, that you've never had a problem with. I, you know, I can't imagine how, how it, how it feels. And so I want to make sure that they're around people that they can relate to. And and and once again, I'm going to go ahead and read it out of here.

It

let's see here

all right

so so you work you're you're an addict and Alcoholics Anonymous. You work the 12 steps and then what it says I

OK,

I'm trying to find it for y'all.

OK, here it is. It says your job now is to be at the place where you can, where you may be of maximum helpfulness to others. So never hesitate to go anywhere if you can be helpful. And I think that says it best, man. It talked about the identification process. If you're just an addict, that that alcoholic that walks through the door that's shaken, vibrating, he's, he's dying, he's scared. And you sit down and say my name's Matthew and I am an addict,

how the heck am I going to catch you? That's why Doctor Silkworth could not help all the 20 years worth of drunks because they couldn't relate to him.

So let's see. Make sure. So yeah, I, I don't mind 12 stepping an an addict at all, but I want to make sure that I direct them to the proper channel, which is Narcotics Anonymous. Now, we do have the personal stores in the back of our book, which consists of some drug use, but those are also Alcoholics. It's OK if you got other problems than alcohol, man. I mean, we got all kinds of problems, You know, I, I could make pages of problems, but But if you're not an alcoholic man, we want to make sure you're

proper place so that you can be of the maximum usefulness to others when the time comes. So did I answer that question properly or is there anyone else that wanted me to elaborate?

No. OK,

what do we do if family members don't always understand our decisions in our life and make us feel guilty for not doing what they want in life? Well,

I can relate.

My wife says that the reason our marriage failed was because of Alcoholics Anonymous.

You know, obviously I wasn't doing what she wanted.

Okay, now

they got a good chapter in the back here. It's called the family afterwards. I would recommend that to any family member and I would recommend it to the the alcoholic as well to read that chapter because it kind of helps you to have balance. And that's what we're looking for. You know, we don't want to go to extreme and, and one area of our life coming off of the extreme of another that there's not going to be balance there. We're learning to live here, you know, we're learning to live with the people in our families and and man, I've had to learn to live all over again just this past six months since, you know,

son comes to live with me and it's like, you know, so now I got to balance my life out in a new way. But it's not like he can say, you know, Daddy, you're going to a a too much or something, you know, but he does say, Daddy, are you going to play with me? And sometimes I can and sometimes I can't. You know, that's just kind of the way it is. But there's also Al Anon kind of kind of like the Narcotics anonymous thing. It is a issue that there's a proper channel for it and those people have to hit their bottom too.

They've been sickened as well. It says, it says it in here that it engulfs the lives of all who touches the sufferers. They're spiritually sick too. Usually they're suffering from selfishness and self centeredness too. The main thing now, this is the key for me,

I had to learn to love them when they let me and when they didn't let me, I had to learn to tolerate them. And that that was the real key for me to be able to handle other people's, you know, selfishness or, or demands a lot of times unhealthy demands. So

any other questions? That was all of them.

Do we say those six steps again? Sure, please.

One, we admitted we were powerless over alcohol.

Obviously that's our step. One a day.

Two, we got honest with ourselves.

That'd be Step 4.

Three, we got honest with another person in confidence. Step 5.

Four, we made amends for harms done others.

Obviously, we're making our amends there.

Step 8-9.

Five. We worked with other Alcoholics without demand for prestige or money.

Step 12 Obviously

given freely what was freely given to us.

Step six. We pray to God to help us to do these things as best we could.

And they talked a lot about that in here and what they called quiet time. And they were just looking for the knowledge of God's wills and everything, even the little things, all things. So that was their last step and it was obviously supposed to be a really important step. So

any more questions?

Just a statement.

It's cool and it's good that that's where it all had its beginning and everything can be traced to there. But the oxygen group doesn't exist anymore today, which is which shows how much better the 12 working 65.

Good statement. Thank you, Nick.

I guess we shut it down then, David. OK,

No, a lot of people not say that. Everything, every man that carries message to Bill by drum and that's not true. He died over in Dallas

in a man named.

But he had plenty,

and he started.

I've always known as Texas,

Cersei women, Cersei whaling

and just so we went and stayed sober until the day 9.

I think he had three years of sobriety. Yeah. Yeah, I've heard that that he did go back and I heard also that even though he went back out, he stayed Bills sponsor. Is that correct? OK,

so obviously that's the importance of the relationship between a sponsor and a sponsee, you know, so, OK, well, we really appreciate everyone coming out. We're going to get back together. We'll have it posted on the on the the board up there. It'll be the 4th Saturday of next month. We're going to go into the rest of the Big Book a little bit more, a little bit more history and the steps and and how they came about so we can see how we've grown and what the importance are of the

Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous.

If y'all would. Let's share the Lords prayer and an empty spiritual foundation of all our traditions that remind us play principles before personality who you see here, what you hear here. Please leave it here when you leave here.