The steps 4 through 9 at the workshop "Carry This Message: 12 steps and sponsorship" at The Firing Line Group of Alcoholics Anonymous in Minneapolis, MN

See, he does exist.

Roger, alcoholic Tonight we're going to do a quick like an overview of of four through 9 in in our in our step work, it's commonly referred to as the house clean. The house cleaning isn't step four, it's four through 9. That's how I clean the house. OK, so having to find the problem and the solution and made a decision in the third step to turn my thinking in the direction of that power.

The first action that I take

is a self appraisal inventory

and they had me look at three areas, resentment, fears and sex conduct harmful behavior to other people. And and they want me to get in front of some questions. So The thing is nice about this is they give you a really clear step by step questions to follow. Write down who you're mad at. Write down why. Write down how it affected you.

Then write down ultimately how you reacted to that. OK.

And the first time I do this at depth, I start getting the picture of how I see the world,

how I see the world. And they give us some conclusions they came to that they wanted to talk to. They want me to come to one is do you see how you're living in the past all the time? And do you see also that whether it's real or imagined, it has the same weight whether I imagined correctly or not. If I believe it, it's the truth. For me. One of the definitions of reality

in the dictionary is anything that's believed OK? And then it gives me a conclusion they came to which is,

you know, we found that living in this resentment place leads only to futility and hopelessness. So it begs the question is that the conclusion I came to. Then they said another thing that really kind of was disturbing, which is have you seen, have you noticed how these things that you've been planning to take care of and designing to get even with etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. Have you seen all those things have really dominated you

spend a lot of time planning how I'm going to get even spend a lot of time how I'm planning.

I'm not going to get found out and caught. Spend a lot of my life energy in that.

They say that's got to change and then they give us a course to take to change that.

I'm done as I'm an alcoholic. Well, it's good to be here after not being here for a couple weeks. And so I'm going to, I'm going to kind of go back a little bit and kind of bring your current kind of with my experience. Probably the first thing that that I would like you to know because it's important to me, part of my experience. I think it's part of Rogers experience

is that a lot of people coming to Alcoholics Anonymous, not everybody gets the a, a message. They get a lot of different things. And you heard Roger talking about some of that in the last couple weeks.

And, and that's kind of how my experience began. But at some point I made a, one of the things that came back to me was, was an interest in reading. And so I read all of A's literature, including the big book. And I discovered that what I was reading was not what I was seeing in my meeting.

And for a long time I had a resentment about that. I thought somebody was trying to shortchange me. But really, you know, I sort of way they did me a favor because realizing that I realized that I couldn't depend on that group of people

for,

for finding the whole deal.

I could not depend on him for that. I had to be responsible for that. I had to seek it out. I had to go to talk to people. I had to go to groups, I had to go to meetings, I had to go to conferences, listen tapes, whatever I had to do, I had to do to get what I needed to get for my my sobriety. So like I say, in an odd sort of way that they kind of did me a favor because it would have just been easy to come in, stay in that group, think the way they thought, do things the way they did, and wind up getting drunk and dying.

And several of the people that I sobered up with, that's what happened to. So that's an important thing I respect. Our sobriety is our own responsibility and we have to go after it just the same way we went after the booze, same way we went after everything else.

We have to go after it. So now when we're at Step 4, we've had some interesting experiences. You know, we've come in and, and I think as Roger mentioned, all of this discussion in the big book is in the past tense. So I've come in. I've come to an understanding that alcohol doesn't work for me anymore.

It is no longer my solution. I may think it's my solution, I may think it'll do things for me, but the fact of the matter are that it will not.

And I need to be willing to go to any lengths to stay away from it, to do whatever it takes to not get involved with it. Whether that means going out standing on my head on the street corner, I need to be willing to do that. And, and my experience is over time, that little

experience, a experience is kind of a reality check, you know, And the first time I had that kind of a reality check was when I realized my group wasn't doing it for me. So the question was, was I willing to go to any lengths to go wherever I had to go

to get what I needed to get?

And over a period of the years I've been sober, time and time again, I've had that experience of are you really willing to go to any lengths to resolve whatever situation you're in?

And it's never easy and it's never fun, but it's always necessary, I think. So that's the reality check that our lives have become unmanageable. I missed that one entirely to begin with. I thought, OK, I'll just quit drinking and now all my dad ideas will work.

And then none of them did. But it took me a while to make that discovery. But I had to be willing to make that discovery. And that's really what it's about. Roger spending a lot of time in the last couple weeks talking to you about our thinking

and that and that's really what that gets at. It's you know, you hear the phrase what you see is what you get. Well, with us, it's what you think is what you get. What I think is what you get.

Because that's the way I'm going to present myself to the world. That's the way I'm going to interact with you. You know, if I think you're out to get me, I'm going to be aggressive toward you. If I think you're on, you're my buddy. We're going to be friends. And reality has nothing to do with that. That's just my opinion on which I base my action. And I had to come to the point where I realized that I couldn't have a good idea about what reality was.

I didn't have any idea about how life worked, about what I could and couldn't do, but what I should or shouldn't do, any of that stuff. And if we can come to that conclusion, second steps, a piece of cake.

It's an absolute piece of cake. Because if we can come to that conclusion, we have to rely on something outside of ourselves. We absolutely have to.

But again, it's a matter of seeking, which is number C and how it works. It's a matter of seeking. Am I willing to continually to seek to find the ideas and the path that works for me? Initially, it was a sponsor. You know, I came in and I, I went to my sponsor's house every night for five years. And that's how I thought the program and sought my direction. But at some point I had to move beyond that person.

Not that they were irrelevant or that I shouldn't go see him or talk to Mary that, but I had to

placement reliance elsewhere, my total reliance. So that's a, that's a process of seeking. And then in the third step, which is really the big one,

the question is,

do I want to keep my old life and try to rebuild that or am I willing to have a new one? And I haven't ever seen anybody been able to rebuild their old one.

You know, you just can't. The foundations gone, There's nothing to build on because it's all old ideas. It's all prejudices, resentments and all that kind of stuff. So we really have to start from scratch. And that's the interesting thing. And that's so important for me to understand when I get to Step 4, because if I haven't reached a point where I'm just willing to let go of that old life and and experience the life that I'm now going to be given,

I can't do Step 4 searchingly and fearlessly. It's just not possible because there's always going to be a part of my life

that I don't want to look at. There's always going to be a part of my life I'd like to, it says in the 12:00 and 12:00. I just as soon take to the grave with me,

you know, and those kinds of things. But on the other hand, if I'm, if I see that as a life that's going away

now, I can be curious about what really was that about.

It's kind of like, you know, after you get done watching a bad movie, it's painful while you're watching it. But a couple weeks later, you think, you know, I wonder what were the good parts? What were the bad parts? And it's easy to do that because there's nothing attached to it.

So that's that's really where we're at with step three, or where I was at, the point I had to come to was that's not my life anymore. So yeah, as long as it's not mine, I'm kind of curious how it worked or didn't you know? And and then I'm really able to look at it honestly and I'm able to look at it fearlessly and I'm able just to see what's there.

But again, that's, that's not a simple well, that's a simple process. It's just not a very pleasant one necessarily. So in in step four. And I think Roger and I are both in of the school that

there's a lot of formats out there. You've probably seen many of them and heard about many of them. And you know, the intent of the folks who put those together is probably very good. They probably personally had some very good experiences when they created that for themselves,

but it's really needs to be that kind of a process. The book just asks us to list things in this very simple way. And, and my experience is

the fourth step was always complicated to me until I was willing to do it honestly. And then it was simple.

So if you're looking at the 4th step and it looks complicated to you, then there are things that you're not willing to see. There are things that you're not willing to consider. There are things that you're not willing to do. It's just that it's just that simple. So you'll need to find those things within yourself that are, that are kind of standing in the way. But once that's taken care of then then the 4th step becomes a pretty simple process and it becomes

AI mean one. Once I got to that point, my four step

took about 45 minutes, you know, up to them. Even the semblance of a four step would be a grueling 2-3 week process, you know, and just like you had to drag me through the mud, you know, and, and when I, when I was finally ready to do that, it was. Oh, yeah, OK, well, I'll put that down. I'll put that down, you know. And the other thing thing I'll say and I'll turn it back over to Roger is that

that I've discovered anyway when I'm when I'm doing a four step and especially the first and second time maybe

when I'm doing a four step, there are always one or two things that don't fit on there, that don't fit into the description. And that that's pretty common. It's pretty much been with everybody I've worked with. It's been my experience

and those are those are interesting things because generally those are the things we want to take to the grave of us. And then I'll just tell you a little story about one situation where a guy I was doing a fifth step with actually I asked and it's

part of what I do with the guys. I do fist up, I ask for that. And he said, well, there really is one thing that, but I don't want to talk about it. And so I repeated to him when it says in the 12:00 and 12:00 and that is, well, OK, but you're you're gambling. This is your life. And if you want to take the gamble that you can continue to hide that from yourself and others. You're betting your life on it. It's OK by me. It's not my life. And he said, well, I guess I'll tell you, you know, And he did. Now, the interesting thing about it is that it was not

something that I would have would have considered in that category. It would have been easy for me to list, but for him it wasn't. But the interesting thing was that nothing specific or spectacular happened when he told it to me. However, about a week later, he got a call from somebody he was sponsoring, and the guy was literally incoherent on the phone. He took him a while just to recognize the voice. He was so incoherent.

And so I said, well, what did you do? And he said, well, he said I, he said, I told the guy hang on, I'll be over to your house in a minute. And he said I was only 5 minutes away. So I went over there

and he said I walked in and a guy was in a fetal position on the floor just crying and, you know, just out of it. And he said, he said I didn't know what else to do. So I told him same thing I told you that I don't want to tell anybody.

And I said, well, what happened? He said the guy straighten right out, you know, so it wasn't the thing. It was a sharing of a secret, the sharing of something very personal that changed the whole equation, you know, and, and that's what we're getting to in, in the fourth step when you when you read in the book, it asks us to kind of review what we've done in the four step a little bit after we're done with it. And it says it holds the keys to the Kingdom.

And that's the thing, you know, all of the stuff that I wanted to hide that I didn't want to put in the fourth step is the stuff that I need to tell you when I'm working with you. You know, it's a thing that connects us. It's a glue that cements us together, that allows us to survive together.

It was something that you said that is really true. You talked about the seeking quality and one of the things that you'll find, and I'm sure everyone's had this experience already, is you get proportionally out of this thing. What you put into it. If you do it half assed, you get half assed results. How do I know if I'm doing it half assed? I'm discontented. My life isn't fitting, It's not working. I hear you guys making reports about what's happening. It's not happening

with me. That's how I know I'm restless and I'm irritable and I'm discontented. Does that sound familiar? You know, that's the tell. I know we have an emotional compass in here that tells us, and if you want more, you got to do more. So we start. They told us two important things before we got here. They said

sovereign itself, suddenness is the root of the problem and your main problem centers in your mind.

It's attitudinal. It's how I see things. It's how I approach things. And so they start deconstructing for me how I approach things with this inventory process. And so they go through this resembling thing like we're talking about, and they say, here's our course, new attitude, new approach. Perhaps this person is spiritually sick. Treat them the way you would want to be treated or a sick person and on and on. And then always, the caveat always appears throughout this thing. Don't argue, don't criticize.

Stop that

doesn't work makes more problems and they said that show you start to outgrow resentments. Then they say, look at your fear.

An when I got here, I had No Fear. After I was here for a while, I was afraid of everything you know, Dennis was talking about. He took about 45 minutes. Yeah, it took me about a year and 45 minutes. You know, it doesn't take long to do it. It's just a series of questions that require lists and prayers. It's not hard. It's not hard at all.

So anyway, they had me look at fear and they and they

want me to conclude a couple of things. One they see,

they say, where's your reliance?

You know, I'm an atheist. I can tell you where my reliance was. That was a dumb question. Self reliant or God reliant, Look at every one of these things. Well, I don't have to look at everyone I know. No, look at every one of them. And that's one of the things they're trying to get me to see what I've been trying to base my life on. This is the self will part. This is the unmanageable part. When I manage my life and I apply myself, you know, that's what I get. I get this mess.

I get this mess called my life

and

so the conclusion in there is that

I

I have placed my face in the wrong place. We saw this in the chapter. The agnostic have the capacity for love, worship and faith. Just placed it in the wrong areas.

Place a complete faith in alcohol and that was a false God and eventually the false God will let you down. Whether it's money, power, prestige, sex, doesn't matter. Eventually it won't work,

so it says here's how y'all grow fear. Practice faith. So it begs the question, what's that concept to have in the third step?

What is my concept of this power?

What is it? And it just has to make sense to me. It could be a mystery. It sure as hell better not be a light bulb or an ashtray because that's that's too minimal. That's just too finite. It's got to be bigger than me. So therefore the quality of that will be mystery, the unknowable. If we're talking about infinite power, infinite wisdom, infinite, infinite, then it's beyond what I can grasp. Thank you very much. So I start with the mystery.

Here we go. You know, that's what I'm putting my faith in, the mystery. It's kind of feeble, but it's a start. It was an honest start,

but I had to become an agnostic. To do that, I had to move from atheism to agnosticism.

Then I had to move

to the willingness to believe in the possibility

and that was the minimal I could do to get over on that. And I did. And so my first concept was the steps that then the IT was the steps in this mystery thing. And it it will evolve with your practice. It will evolve with your practice. Do you want to see something unfair?

Well, there's a couple thoughts. Academy One is

just kind of a description of who you're dealing with here.

You're dealing with a guy who has self-proclaimed proclaimed atheist who didn't know enough about God to make that decision and a self-proclaimed intellectual who didn't have enough and and understanding of anything to make that kind of a decision. So I mean, that's the kind of guys you got up front here. But

but you know, there

this whole four step thing is really is really kind of interesting. But again, the whole idea of finding a power greater than yourself. One of the Roger talked about the myths the first week here and and one of the myths I hear in a a as well. Just take your time with this higher power business. Take your time finding finding your higher power. Well, I got news for you. If I put you in an airplane with a parachute on your back and I throw your ass out the door.

And I say take your time pulling a rip cord.

Just get around to it whenever you feel comfortable,

you know, what's your reaction going to be then it is trying to kill me, you know, So I mean, there is some urgency with finding a higher power here because that's where our power is going to come from. So until we make some beginning in that realm, you know, we're kind of in trouble. And, and it's probably one of the big things that I, I struggle with, with the folks I work with is everybody wants to take their time with that. And it's like, no,

you need to start with a concept. Whatever it is.

We got to have something. We got to have something to start from. We can't just be ambiguous about the whole thing.

And then the other thing about the four step listing things is and, and it was part of my confusion with the four step and I see it in other folks.

My thought was, well, it should be logical before I list it. It's like, no, no, no, no, that's just backwards. If it's logical, we might not even have to list it. Everything that's on there definitely is illogical to anybody with a sane mind. Of course, I wouldn't know that if it bit me, you know,

So, so I just, I just tell people, you know, put it down there. If it doesn't look like it makes sense when you're writing it, that's OK, because it's probably true. Now you're being restored to just a little bit of sanity because now you can see that. The other thing is that I discovered

a couple things. One is another thing that made the four step difficult for me. I used to love the Minnesota Multiphasic Test

because I had, I developed a pattern of I would read ahead and everything that every test I was given to kind of get a concept of what they were looking for so I could give them what they wanted. So they leave me alone. And I did, I tried to do the same thing with the four step, you know, I tried to look ahead and what are they looking for? What are they trying to get out of me and try to anticipate that. And you're never going to get it done if you do it that way.

My experience, the only way I could get it done was literally. I mean, in some, I've had to do this on some occasions,

is take a piece of paper and and put it on the big book and just literally force myself to read and do one line at a time. Just do what it says on that one line. And when I'm done with that as much as I can, then I can move the paper and see what's on the next line. But I can't allow myself to read ahead in in any kind of way.

The other thing I discovered because I was kind of wondering why resentments, fears and sex. I mean, why? Why did you pick those? There's all kinds of things you could make lists from. I got a guy who loves making lists and I have to put him on list restriction. But

why would you pick those? Well, I, I discovered an interesting thing about my experience is we're working backwards

all of the things that I listed in the sex inventory. And when I say sex, I'm not just talking about intercourse. I'm talking about the whole relationship between men and women and all of that. All of the things that I had listed on the sex were the things that caused the fear, which were the things that drove the resentments. And so really we're working backwards in that whole process and and I can't work forwards because it's too big.

So I start with the small pieces. I start with the resentment.

When I get done with those, then they begin to give me a sense of where my fears are.

You know, just like it says, we move, a lot of the fears come up in there. We move them over to the next sheet and I can list my fears. And then the sex part is usually pretty easy because it's stuff that's always on our mind anyway, you know, And then I can connect the dots after that. But there's, this isn't a random thing we're doing. This isn't just somebody's A list we're making just 'cause somebody thought it was cute

and would be therapeutic for us. There's a real, real significant

spiritual process that we're engaged in in this, in this whole thing, you know, and it's a thing. It's a thing that's that's really, like I said, going to be the glue that that allows us to be together. It's a thing that's going to allow us to interact with with life around us and begin to see life much differently. And if The thing is going to set us free,

it's it's the thing that's going to set us free. It's a crap we've been dragging around

that the committee has been working on overtime, you know, so we're going to take all this stuff the committee's been working on and we're just going to going to deal with it this way. And then they won't have much to do. And so they won't have a lot to talk about unless we're slack. Then of course we can generate a little material now and then. So it's it's a real significant spiritual process that we're engaged in, but it's hard to see that

until after the fact. That's why the book, when the book was written that they always talked about it in past tense,

because the people who didn't do it never got to the past tense part.

A couple quick thoughts on fear. There's a line in our book that says fear set in motion trains the circumstances we felt we didn't deserve. But didn't we set the ball rolling? What they're talking about there is the question. You know when you're going across every problem I have is when my instinctual demands smash into yours. OK, instincts and collision is what Wilson described it as. I have a demand. I don't have a need or a want. I have a damn demand. Do you understand?

This is what I want and I'm going to get it. Everyone in here that's an alcoholic knows that it just, it's like

given alcohol Commission. It's a beautiful thing to watch as long as you're not in front of them. But anyway, getting back to this, this idea of instincts and collision. So the question becomes in the fear inventory, another way to peel this back is did my need for emotional security create that fear? What part of self created a fear? Did my need for money, power, prestige,

sex? Did my ambitions, how I show up socially, did that create that fear? And you'll find that those instincts are always underneath that. The ego creates an appetite that says we need this

and we need this about 5 minutes ago and let's have at it. And then we go out chasing this

need and we end up creating a lot of harm. That would be distress, physical, emotional, mental.

We hurt people. We don't always mean to, but you know, we do. We hurt people. So they say the only, the only solution for this is to practice the faith. I don't work on my fear. I work on my faith. Don't work on your fear. Don't work on your resentment. All we're doing is identifying them, OK. And what this is doing is it's creating a deeper necessity in me to know and have a relationship with this power

because as I go through this process, this is not a steam building. This is a steam dismantling. This is tearing apart the ego, getting it down to the sum total of look at you, whether it's resentment in the past, fear in the future, or your sex conductor, the way you interact with people, it's always the same thing. You're selfish, you're inconsiderate, you're fearful and you're dishonest. Regardless, regardless of the stimulus, regardless of the situation, regardless of what the big thing and little thing, it doesn't matter. That's my

I got those four things. That's where I come from

and it raises hell in my life and I don't get it. And as I'm starting to uncover this, I'm going, holy moly, you know, you are a sick dog. You are really. But it's good news because they told me you're sick. You're not bad.

I thought I was bad. I had no idea that, you know, they refer to alcohol in our warped lives and all. I had no idea. I had no idea. So then they get into the sex conduct, which is one of the myths we're going to run into right now, which is, I'm sure you've heard this. Well, you won't be in any relationships for a year.

When you tell someone that they go out and get in a relationship immediately,

immediately, it doesn't say that. I heard this in a meeting once and I loved it. What do I have set? Do I not have sex? Am I in relationships or not relationships? And they said, well,

think of it this way, If you're going to overhaul a motor, it's a good idea to shut it down.

Easier to do a valve job

with the motor shut off and now go. That's OK, that's OK. And I'm trying to let this process work through me while I'm creating more of the very thing that I'm trying to heal from.

Stop that. Just like you stop lying, you try and stop lying, you try and get new approaches. They said you need a new approach in this area. I didn't have, I didn't have a very interesting sex inventory. It was exactly the same thing over and over again for about 25 years with different people, but it was exactly the same, different name, different year, exactly the same MO. And I had, I looked at that as son of a bitch. I was mystified.

I couldn't believe it,

but it was exactly it was like we answered the question, was it God rely on herself reliant After about two of those, you're going please,

you know, and then you get in this X thing. It's like, oh jeez, you know, I got bored with my sex inventory. I thought that was going to be exciting. And it says, look at you need to shape a new ideal, a new, a new goal, something a little above heartbeat and pulse, you know, something a little higher than that, you know, and a lot of times we need help with this

because I don't have a clue what a healthy idea would look like. And then we have to be willing to grow towards that. It says, what if I screw up? Well, I'll tell you I have screwed up.

It says if you have an honest desire to grow towards your ideal and if you're honestly remorseful and you learn from the mistake, we don't necessarily think that you'll drink from that. Some do, but some don't. But we know this for a fact and this is one of the places they promised us this. If I don't change and I have no remorse about the way I'm using people and hurting them, I'll drink. Period.

Promise. Promise.

Well, the first thing I'll say is not in the book anywhere is not in anywhere in a literature. It's just my experience and, and it's something I say to the folks I work with about this time, is there are really two ways to get rid of some You can give it up or you can wear it out.

The only difference is how much pain involved, you know, So this question really is how much pain do you want to have? And that's always true in my case. I wish it weren't, but it is

another thing is and and it's really, I think one of the

hidden benefits, if you will, of the 12 step program that we have and the higher power that that works in our lives. And that is that we really don't know how sick we are until we get better,

which is, which is really cool, because if, if at any given moment, if I knew how sick I was, I'd say to hell with it. You know, I'd say it's way too much for me to handle. I just, I got to get out. And, and so, you know, a year from now or five years from now,

I'll look back on tonight and I'll say, Oh my God, how did I even make it? You know, and, and that's been pretty much characteristically true. So in this 4th step that we're doing this is that's the beginning of that process, the beginning of the awareness process of once I become aware of something, now there's possibility for change if I got a word on the end of my nose, as long as I'm unwilling to admit that there is no chance

I'm going to do anything about it,

you know, it's only when I say, hey, I got a warrant on the end of my nose that I can make a decision whether I want to keep it or do something to get rid of it. But until then, I don't have any choices at all. You know

the other thing. And when we get into the fear stuff that I, I usually talk to people about

because when, when people are working on their four step, they're chatting it up with other folks who are either working on their four step or have done it or whatever. But

a lot of a lot of that chat tends to center around how they're feeling about things, you know?

And so we, I spend a little time explaining something to them about emotions and Alcoholics. And that is when I say to you, I'm afraid

you and I understand what that means. But if I say that to a quote, UN quote, normal person, I'm speaking Greek because fear, what we consider fear for them is terror, absolute terror. Well, we consider anger is rage for them. So we're a whole dimension

off or in extreme from the norm, if you will. So that's why some of these things are so critical for our sobriety

is we sense them as fear and we sense them as anger. But really they're far more extreme than that. But we're so removed from the reality of our lives that we we diminish them. But if we stick with the program and we practice the principles and the practices that are laid out in the book, we deal with those things even though we're not entirely aware

of their full implication and if they're full magnitude. So that's a great thing, because if I knew how rageful I was, I had a pretty good idea

that when I got sober that my rage could overtake me and just just rule me. I had a pretty good idea of that. But looking back on it now, I only really kind of had an idea about half.

I mean, it was even far beyond that. It was so far beyond that as almost incomprehensible. So. So we have to have some faith in the process here.

The other thing is that that now we're getting ready for Step 5 and we're getting ready to share this information. OK, now here's another one of those. I'm not sure. I'll call it a myth. I'm going to call it a misunderstanding. NAA, that that it's really just a litany of woes

and I'm going to just kind of

you could all out in front of you and we'll just mill around in a little bit and say, God, that really stinks and it's really gross and we'll move on and everything will be wonderful.

That I haven't seen that work either.

And the step says we found the exact nature of our wrongs.

So what does that mean? You know, the nature of something is its core, its core essence. Now this is a this is always amazes me whenever I I bring it back into my consciousness.

The core, the nature of my wrongs in my fifth step is I'm afraid you're going to think I'm a wimp.

Doesn't sound like a really big deal at all,

but that thought

runs through every decision I've made in my life.

Every single decision has been based on trying to avoid you thinking I'm a wimp.

And until I'm willing to say, hey,

I may be, I may not be, who cares, you know, but I have to own up to the fact that I've been running my life on that. And it's the same thing we've been talking about right along. It's, it's what's going on between those ears. You know, I had a father-in-law, ex father-in-law that sat at the breakfast table one time. God gave everybody brains. Some of them use them to think with and others use them to keep the rears from slamming together.

And, and apparently I was in the latter category,

you know, but, but my whole focus has, has been on that. Now, you know, you're asking me to take this stuff and lay it out in front of another person. I mean, it's stuff I don't even want to look at. I'm supposed to lay it out in front of another person. So some interesting things have to happen here. Number one, I have to have enough faith in one other human being to lay that out there.

So that's a big step. That's a really big step.

You know, it's, it's, it's a leap of faith for most of us.

But the other thing is that it's critically important, I think, and it's been true in my experience, that whoever I'm going to lay that out for and with understand what's involved in the process. It isn't a dumping ground. It isn't just a morbid examination of what I've done with my life, that there's a real process here. I'm looking for something specific.

I have a, there's a process to this that I need to be engaged in and involved in. And so it ought to be somebody with number one that has done this. And there ought to be somebody #2 that understands where we're going with it. Because again, my experience is the steps are cumulative in the sense that if I haven't done 4, there's no way I can do five. That's obvious to a large degree. But I haven't done three. I can't do four. Like I said, you know, so in five, if I can't do this

in a manner intended, then everything beyond five is beyond me,

which we see that in Alcoholics Anonymous. We see a lot of people and you'll hear them in meetings. I mean, they get to five and, and, and that's as far as they go

and they get lost and, and they're back out there. And the other thing I'll say, which is always kind of disappointing for people to hear is I've listened as, as people come into a A and everybody always has a fear of what would happen to them if they went back out drinking. And the interesting thing is that exactly what they're afraid of is exactly what happens to them. If I'm afraid that I'm going to be trapped in my own body and not be able to do anything, and I go back out and drinking. I know a guy like this

is now quadriplegic and he is basically trapped in his own body and he's drinking booze through a straw when somebody can get it to him. If I'm afraid that I'm going to die, they get killed in Iraq or whatever, take their own life.

So those fears that we listed, we can create, you know, we can create the result of if we don't, if we're not diligent about this. And I, I'm really a firm believer and I talk about this with the folks in step three is if you're not willing to go through this, we're going to stop this now 'cause you're going to get yourself in trouble if you, if you play around with us, this isn't something to mess with or to do half heartedly or just kind of do out of curiosity. We're serious here, you know, this is a serious deal. So.

So we're getting ready to exhibit faith.

You know, in three, it was basically an internal decision. There wasn't a lot of external evidence necessarily around that. But here's where Rubber starts meeting her own. And step five, I got to talk to you about this, you know, and I have to have faith that you can help me

see what's involved in this, see the patterns in my life and and see what happens. And last thing I'll say about this is that