Steps 1 through 12 at the Spiritual Awakenings group in Bernardsville, NJ

Amen.

OK. And as most of you know that we've been doing a workshop with Peter M and Chris S for the last couple of months and tonight is the last night. And what they're going to hopefully do is kind of a ramp up of the process of their, their experience. And then we, we can open up for some Q&A

and

that's it. So I'll turn the meeting over to Peter M and Chris S Nice day. My name is Chris. I'm an alcoholic. I've, I've really enjoyed the last couple of months here with, with you all. And especially with Peter, I get a lot out of his shared experience.

You probably, if you've been to enough of these meetings, you probably know that we are, our philosophy is really

very, very similar as far as the importance we give to the recovery process in, in Alcoholics Anonymous for many, many years in the Northeast. And I don't really know why

the recovery process was kind of lost in the fellowshipping of Alcoholics Anonymous and to the detriment I think of of all of our spiritual conditions. And there's kind of a renaissance that's been going on lately

that's helping to turn the tide a little bit back. And there's like little pockets of enthusiasm that are opening up where where people are sharing

and experiencing the recovery process.

Peter's, Peter's got a group in union and we have, we have the Burnersville group. There's, there's groups all over the place now. And I'm very, very grateful for that.

There's an ask it basket in the back if some of the people that came in have

have asked some questions after we're done sharing, we'll get to that. And when the questions, if the questions run out, we've got a microphone that Bill has has set up here. Anybody that wants to

wants to share anything or ask us any questions. I certainly don't pretend to be an expert in Alcoholics Anonymous or an authority or anything like that. Anytime I share my experience, it's just basically what I've learned going through the process myself, what I've learned working with others and the philosophy that surrounds that experience. So

I'm not going to tell you right, wrong or indifferent. It really just is my

my experience. Peter, what do you got? Not much.

I'm Pete. I'm a recovered alcoholic grateful to be alive and sober. Not an A meeting.

God separated me from alcohol June 23rd 1988. Very grateful to be recovered alcoholic. My Home group is a vision for you group in Union, NJ. We meet Thursday nights at 7:30 to 8:45 and I've shared this a million times. Most people in Union don't like my group

because we talk about a solution until they bottom out and then they come to look for my group and when they're really desperate they asked me to sponsor them. But I feel really grateful to be a part of that group and, and do some service while I'm there and, and carry a message to an alcoholic,

whether they're here for the first meeting, right out of treatment, right out of detox, or they're in a, a, for a long time running around in a, a untreated wondering how come it's caving in on them wherever they go.

So I stand at the door ready like most members in my Home group, and I'm grateful to be a part of that. It's been a real neat deal here for me to come back again and, and share and, and and share with Chris. We did something similar up in Vermont and I always have a lot of fun with this stuff.

One of the questions that would I would get after the hour was up and one of the questions I get very often when I my phone rings

go something like

my Home group hates me because I'm talking about the big book

or my network of groups. The groups I go to in my area. No one's talking about the 12 steps. And I'm fed up with AAI can't take it anymore.

Whenever I go speak, how come people walk out on me when I share and these this is some of the the questions I would get what to do, what to do, what to do. And I only share my experience. If that's happening to you, I pay no attention to that. God has given me a solution and my job is to live it and go share it.

And I was thinking of that while Chris was talking. And there's a little piece in here

in a vision for you. It says, thus we grow and so can you, though you be but one man or woman with this book in your hand. We believe that it we believe in hope. It contains all you will need to begin. We know what you were thinking. You say to yourself, I'm jittery and alone. I couldn't do that. But you can you forget that you, you have just now tap the source of power much greater than yourself. To duplicate with such backing what we have accomplished is only a matter of willingness, patience and labor.

And when I, when I moved out

to Union, I think I was banned from half the meetings in union. They weren't too thrilled about seeing me, but I kept, you know, suiting up and showing up. And I took this into prayer and I, I got silent waiting for an answer. And what came to me was maybe you need to start a group. And I wasn't sure if that was ego or that was really God. And I ran it by my sponsor. I sought counsel with that. And

hunger shade got a couple of guys together, put a format together, which we borrowed from a group called the Way Out group in Staten Island. And we're a little over two years old and, and the lights are on, the coffees going and, and we're talking about Alcoholics Anonymous. And so I even share that with some people. Maybe you need to take some responsibility and, and, and start your own little group about a solution to alcoholism. So

I said, kick it back to Chris and we'll see where we go Tonight

was I was at a meeting on Sunday night and I was talking with a really good friend of mine does does workshops with us every once in a while, is very, very active in taking people through the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous. And down in his area. He's been told not to come back to certain groups, which I think is that's a, a flagrant violation of our traditions. But these groups are really don't care much fun. And he continues to go to those groups and he's, he even doesn't share

and they still ask him to leave because if he Can you imagine he doesn't say a word in the meeting. And they still want him out because what he does is after the meeting, if there's anybody that's hurting, he goes up and he makes himself available for taking them through the the steps. And for some crazy reason, this, this is looked upon as heretical a, a or something, when really

it's, it's, it's A at its most basic.

In the 1st 10 years of Alcoholics Anonymous, it was all about

taking people through the 12 steps and then kind of allowing them to be part of the fellowship. And today it's kind of in reverse. You really come in and you get initiated by just having a seat and, you know, sharing or whatever. And then if you're lucky, you'll, you'll find a, you'll find a a good sponsor who will drag you kicking and screaming through the steps because the steps prior to

investigation, we just inherently balk at them.

I was running with a really good friend of mine on Sunday. And I want to, I want to tell this, tell this story because it's, it was so profound for me. I can't get enough

testimony to the fact that this process works and we're running now. This individual, his father was a raging alcoholic, left the family at a very young age, would pull things like coming home at like drunk midnight on Christmas that the family hasn't seen him in three years. And the mother would like call the police

and the presence are out on the sidewalk. And I mean, just real, real family of origin alcoholic issues, just just screaming. And many of us have have experienced those kind of things. And he had a he's talking to me about this and he says, you know, because I had a resentment against my mother for all this stuff. And I, you know, I was just I was terrible growing up, but I could not get over this. And he goes, you know, I got into therapy and I did

the wounded inner child thing and I spent tons of money and tons of time and, and just exploring all these things. And when I got out of his talk was he learned a great deal about why he was in pain. And he could, he could talk very, very eloquently about why he has certain emotional problems. He was a very, very educated

about his pain, but it never got any better.

And then he got involved with with Howard actually over in Berkeley Heights, who took him kicking and screaming through the steps. And when it comes to to the 9th step, he was instructed to list everything that he had done every way he had fallen short that he was clear on in the relationship of being a good son. He went to his mother. He laid all this stuff out. And from that moment on, the resentment was gone. The pain was gone that

that crippling emotional bondage that that we get stuck in with these, with these deep seated resentments were gone. Now why why I'm sharing this is be is for a couple of reasons. One of them is we don't come in to Alcoholics Anonymous with one of those,

you know, we come in with a ton. If somebody comes up to me and they've only got like 6 or 8 resentments on their inventory, I'll tell them that's a bad day. That's not a inventory. You know what I mean? We, we come in with, we come in with a lot of that stuff and we're, we're, we're ruined because of it all. And it's just seems so simple, doesn't it? I mean, like right out an inventory, you know, go make an amends. It takes you maybe a couple of days and four cents worth of writing

material.

And he had spent a fortune with professionals trying to get past this stuff and he got past it working with, you know, a guy from Berkeley Heights who knew how to go through the steps.

You know, those stories are additional testimony to me about how this thing works and why what our groups, what our groups are involved in doing. You know, carrying a very, very conservative, recovery based message is important.

It's important.

Umm, you want to grab some questions now? Sure.

Dave, do you got the basket?

OK, here we go.

The question is when you want a specific defect removed that's causing you and others harm, and you have tried all of a a suggestions yet it seems not to give. What do you do?

A friend of mine talked about,

umm, going to God in six and seven to remove his arrogance.

He knew he was getting people angry, especially in Alcoholics Anonymous, and he's got, take this arrogance from me. That was about 15 years ago and he's still arrogant.

Through the working of that, he realized that he offers things up and sometimes we take an asset to the extreme becomes a liability. But what he had to learn from that, and I'll share my own experience with this, was that some of his arrogance that he was praying to be removed

was not what needed to be removed. It was how he had to deliver it to people. Some of his arrogance has been able to help him help many people because they pay attention to him, his proximity when he talks. He has no problem pulling the covers on someone. He has no problem cutting the weight of fat and getting right down to causes and conditions in a very arrogant, pompous way.

But it's his way of delivering a message that his prospects, and he has many of them, listen to.

I've turned to God many, many times and wondering how come this defect is not being removed? And what I had to simply find out was, am I trying to enforce my will upon God?

Take this defect from me, take this defect from me. And I tell my, my network, hey, I'm praying for this defect to be removed. And it's not being removed and I'm doing inventory on it. It's not being removed. And I finally find out that I'm trying to enforce my will upon God. And the other thing I had to find out was this. I may say that I'm praying to God, I'm turning to God, I'm using God, I'm going to God, God, God, God. I'm giving God a lot of lip service,

but I'm totally agnostic even in that

that I haven't totally surrendered to God, having given up with all giving way any kind of notion that maybe I can control it a little bit. I'm still holding on to some degree. And I've been guilty of that over the years. And I find many people who who come to me say, hey, here's my problem, that they're giving God a lot of lip service. But having truly surrendered everything to God, truly surrendered without worrying, meaning not looking at what the outcome is going to look like, how I'm going to be.

Am I willing to live life on terms of it in my own? So I can say, you know, take this arrogance from me and still hold on because I want to control it a little bit. I'll use arrogance when it's convenient, but I'm not really giving it to God. And if I give God all my arrogance, well, what happens to me then? See, that's agnosticism. I give arrogance to God. I give whatever it may be to God. And where I land, I'm not concerned with.

So to answer this question, am I giving God lip service or am I totally surrendering to God

and really being ready to be made new?

What kind of action am I taking after I work with six and seven? After I turn this defect to God, What kind of action am I taking afterwards?

Some of these things I work with the mantra through the day too, throughout my day. Turn in in order to go out.

Turn into this power in order to go out, turn. Work with the word turn, watch, aware, observe.

You know,

I think a lot like

a lot like all of us. I think sometimes I can fool myself to my to my level of willingness and I may not really be as willing. The 12 and 12 talks about being as willing to give up a character defect as we were to overcome alcoholism. Having that kind of desperation and that kind of willingness. I don't know that I go to go into these into six and seven with that with a lot of my character defects

and I have prayed for a lot of my character defects to be removed.

Some of them have and some of them still kind of hang on

At least for 15 years now, every single day, twice a day, I've prayed to have, have my, my judgmentalism removed because especially in the early days of a man, I was so judgmental. There was like 96% of you guys I didn't like and I could tell you exactly what was wrong with you. I could inventory you beautifully, you know, from across the room. And it caused me a lot of pain. And it was really,

it's only just kind of begun to, to get under control. I mean, it doesn't cause me the pain it used to, but I'm still very judgmental. Another thing is, you know, again, like Peter said, how do I know God's not using one of my defects of character? How do I know that God's not using my ego? Because I think it takes a certain type of egoism to do workshops or to to speak behind the podium

as much as as, as I do.

How do how do I know that that's not

working? How do I know that my defect isn't contributing to my being able to channel

a recovery message?

So

I've kind of backed away from being attached to the removal of these things and just try to work more on the humility and, and the persistent practice of the principles and just see what happens. You know, it, it, it really has, you know, God's work better things in my life than I ever could have if I wrote the script. One of the things I had a problem, well I thought I had a problem with, was especially growing up, even to adulthood.

Umm, I try to be like John Wayne, but I would cry watching cartoons

and I was just had this sensitive part of me like, come on, toughen up, you know?

And I thought it was such a horrible defect for a guy to have, you know, be real sensitive about stuff,

cry at a movie, got to run out and come back like you're acting tough again. And I would go through this drama all the time, right? And I sat with someone and this gentleman pointed out that you have this thing for

people feeling comfortable to talk to you about almost anything. And you being there, present with them and being able to get past their stuff and kind of get in there with them. Be very receptive to people. You, you seem to do that well, he says. Is it possible it's because you happen to be maybe a little bit more sensitive than the next person? The byproduct of it is it puts me in awkward situations when I cry when I really don't want to.

So what I thought was just awful defect

turn out to be a wonderful gift. And I don't look at that as a defect in R.E.M. God, take away the sensitivities. Make me into Tony Soprano, you know,

inflicting my will upon God.

OK, here's a here's a very profound one. Why doesn't the Burnsville group have a better choice of Danish and cookies?

Hey,

I will tell you. I will tell you that it wasn't too many years ago that we had. We had like an executive chef who was the coffee maker here, you remember? And he would come in and he would make gourmet soups and there would be like, fruits and, you know, all this like, yeah, where is he? But.

You know, we are you know, we're not really about to Danish in the cookies there. We do. It is burners with us and we do have high bottom choices of of of cookies. It's not it's not just, you know, Oreos all the time. You have a you have at least a decent assortment. The Danishes. I don't know. We'll have a group conscience meeting after the meeting to talk about the Danish issue.

OK,

Are either of you ever inclined to go to contemporary AAA? And how do you know when

we must?

We need to be that. We can't always preach to the choir,

but we must visit, you know,

the sorted spots in a where they're talking about everything but a solution, everything but alcohol. We need to be there,

we need to look for prospects, we need to carry a message.

So I visit a lot of those places and how do I know when I'm there? You know, when you're there.

But I've been real clear into as to not character assassinate someone as to what they're sharing. I'll challenge it,

but I won't assassinate someone's character because of what they're sharing, because then I become just as dangerous as the person who tells the real alcoholic, just put the plug in the jug. And then what I'm really doing is giving the book lip service and not living it. But you can kind of sense, like I shared this last time I did a workshop here. When you come into this group, you can sense something,

a pocket of enthusiasm, and people are talking about a solution. People are interested in what's going on and gets you. When you get to do these, they get to be easy because everyone's very receptive. We're given almost permission to talk like this.

And sometimes when you walk into a contemporary AA meeting, there's, it's happened to me many times where you walk into a meeting about this big and they're silent, You don't hear anything.

Two people there, three people there just dazing off, you know, just

wondering when the meetings going to be over.

Hey, did you watch the game? You know what that guy said? Oh, it has. She is again.

Then the gavel hits the table. We get spiritual for now and then we go home

and you could hear it from the speakers or the sharing from the floor.

Everything's talked about, but the 12 steps or God

or any kind of recovery growing up spiritually, any kind of 10 and 11 practices, so you kind of know

and so be it.

But my job is to not go there and assassinate someone's character, but be there

and offer what has been given to me without expectations that I'm going to get a standing ovation when I'm done.

Just go share. I, I sponsor lots of guys and, and I get this with the newer guys.

I went to this meeting was the worst moment of my life. I can't believe it. I'm never going to go back there again. I can't believe it was a sad day for me and Alcoholics Anonymous when I I went to this meeting. And you know, how dare you.

Going off for a solution

rather than sit back in the backroom, my arms folded, you know, taking everyone's inventory.

And so this one guy, his amends was to go back to that group and share and offer a solution

and thank the speaker for sharing regardless of what they shared.

So I have a lot of experience taking people through the steps.

And when I first started doing it there, there wasn't a lot of people doing what what we were doing, having that 12 step experience. And I'm not saying everybody I sponsor, but probably at least half of the people, here's the progression that they go through. They've been suffering in Alcoholics Anonymous trying to get a spiritual awakening with a fellowship experience, and they've had real mixed results with that. Somehow

either either they relapse or they're half crazy and they, they, they end up being pointed toward me because, you know, you don't go to Chris unless you're really in trouble

because he makes you work with the steps. So, so they'll come to me and I'll take them through the steps. And the first, their first reaction is to get pissed. They're going to get pissed because why didn't somebody show me this before? Why didn't somebody tell me about this? And sometimes they'll even go back to the meetings and attack. And I've had people come up to be many times and say one of your guys is causing trouble in our meeting. You know, what are you doing?

And

hopefully there's, there's a maturing process that happens and they'll get through that anger pretty quickly because column number one will be those AA people that didn't tell me the right thing or those, those lousy AA groups or whatever that's going to be column #1. So hopefully if they continue to practice the steps, they'll get through that. They'll, they'll, they'll mature through that. And then they'll find that some meetings that are not, say, carrying a strong message are a, a, a fertile environment for

finding prospects. And, you know, that's a good place to, to go for, you know, to find people to work with.

I'm not saying I don't require very much of the people I sponsor, except that they need to go through the steps or they need to find somebody else. But I will strongly suggest that they continue to go to a broad spectrum of meetings because another bad habit to get into is to just go to big book meetings where you just hear the answer. That's kind of selfish, you know, to, to hide out in the choir. So I'll, I'll suggest that

that you have a mix, a mix of meetings, because, you know,

we're supposed to be at a place where we're supposed to be of maximum benefit to others, not maximum comfort to ourselves. You know what I mean?

There we go. If God is everything, then why is it that people tend to obsess over medication? Does it seem

that people usually relapse because of it? God is everything. I believe we got one of these up at the up at the Wilson House. And I'm going to stand by what I what I set up there. This isn't really a a topic that I can really share my experience on because I don't have

on being on medication in recovery so anything I would give you would be an opinion.

I've never been on medication either.

I know many people in a A who are

and take it as prescribed

and there have been people who told them they're not sober because of that

and shame on them.

Some of us need to go to doc, need to go see doctors and get meds,

but I have no experience about taking meds.

I've sponsored a few guys over the years who are on medication and one guy sprung it on me around a third step. Thanks a lot.

But I, I want to know if they're on meds, what they're taking and I'll have them write this out. See, they don't know that I don't know what the medication does, but they need to be accountable. So I'll ask them what they're on, how often they have to take it, what it's for, who their doctor is,

what are the side effects, if any. So they're accountable to me too as their sponsor, so I know what they're doing so we can have conversations about their meds. I don't want to get, if I'm working with a guy who's on medication, I don't want to hear he's been behaving in a certain way. Oh, by the way, I stopped taking my medication three months ago, you know, or I decided to double up on my medication that I have a problem with. But taking out as prescribed,

some of us needed

recreational medication is like another issue. I was working with this guy and got him up to a men's and he's out there. I mean, this was like one of those grueling long four steps where it takes like multiple days. I mean, I put a lot of work into this and we get we get up to the immense and he's out there making amends and the sumbitch drinks on me. I, you know, and it was just, it was like what,

you know, what do you, how can you, you're in the middle of, of making a whole bunch of really strong amends. What is going on? I was really confused.

Well, he shows, he shows up back at the meeting and he starts talking with our friend Ray Ray C and Ray, you can't put anything past him. He's he's an old druggie from way back. And you know, he can just, he can just see your eyes and know like you know, how many milligrams you're on, you know, and he goes, he goes, are you, are you on something? And and the guy goes well,

yeah. And he goes what? He goes well Xanax.

Well, how many? Well look, six or eight a day. I'm like, he was having a good time doing those amends. Let me tell you. And again, I didn't know anything about, I didn't know anything about it. It came as a surprise to me. So I've begun to ask that question before. I do like a 13 hour fist step.

See what we got here,

it says. Can you expand on meditation without name and how it has brought you to more freedom? You mean that? Well,

it was a practice I talked about that I was taught

the practice of No Name

has brought you to more freedom. The practice I was given to work with was to sit in a meditation without having my name attached to it not being Peter Marinelli. And when I first did that, my first few times working with that, it was uncomfortable,

a little frightening at times, and I was able to see immediately my attachment to who I thought I was.

With my name came a whole bunch of drama. With my name came all my fears, all my expectations, everything I thought who made me what I am.

Peter Marinelli can do this. Peter Marnelli certainly can't do that. And that's how I went out. That was my how I went out into all my affairs with this label and attachment

and I would look for things to keep me filled up, whether it be drama or not.

And I found that was incredibly limiting for me because under my name came this huge attachment to who I thought I'd be,

what someone calls a false sense of self.

And it was incredibly limiting because what what, what was behind that was all my belief systems, all my prejudices. And they would disguise themselves really well. So I couldn't recognize them, but they were there. They would just, you know, change seats on the Titanic.

And I was told to go into this meditation and work with breath but not see me with name attached to it, but truly a spirit

to spiritual being having this human experience.

And I work with that.

And little by slowly I found out that you know what is in a name. I mean I could be called a number or a color for Christ sake.

It's just a label so they people know how to reach me.

So a name was pushed aside after some practice, and I got in touch with the spirit

who I be from moment to moment to moment. And what started to dissolve, what started to fall away was all the attachments that went with Peter Marinelli, all the limitations that went with my name, even MyHeritage that went with my name, where I was brought up that went with my name, all of it. It was all bondage

and I got to pay attention to spirit and breath

and presence

that started to manifest in the rest of my day. Leaving meditation, going to work, doing my chores, attending social events, doing a deal like this. I got past all of that

and I think I shared this a couple of weeks ago, that I've heard it for years in Alcoholics Anonymous with spiritual beings having this human experience. To me it sound like a nice little a a sound bite right?

But it's given given a new depth and weight

for me that I'm beyond name. And if you think about it, if we're truly the great reality is deep down within and we're spirit, we're beyond form.

Ain't that great?

God has me doing certain things, coming here, going there, speaking certain places, working with others, going to work, whatever it may be.

That's how I show up,

but Spear is the one taking me there. And what kind of spirit am I bringing there, if you will? Am I showing up to take the kids to Little League or showing up to work or showing up to cook dinner at my house with this attitude of

if you were me you wouldn't be doing this so you should be grateful I'm doing this or am I doing as God would want me?

The thing about being sensitive

that was able to dissolve my belief systems about this May made me weak was able to dissolve what this what a practice like this because under Peter Marinelli came well, I'm from Brooklyn. I come from this type of family. I was brought up this way. I we're not sensitive,

all this stuff into this block.

No name, spirit.

How would God want me to be?

That also worked for another assignment that Bill had given me about what does it mean to be a man? My conception of a man. And I think I shared this early on, and I wrote down some things and I sat quiet again, and I wrote down some more things about what my idea of a man was. And that all came under Peter Marinelli's idea of what it is to be a man. My name What is to be a man.

And then I would judge good and bad. And I realized judging good and bad is how much of that is based on how I was brought up my ideas of what is good and what is bad.

And it worked with no name.

And I sit in silence and everything I wrote on what I think it is to be a man, all the things that make what a man supposed to be. None. All of it was removed.

I thought if you, a real man, made lots of money,

so does that mean a man who doesn't make a lot of money is less than

had to be married with so many kids and have a house? So that does that mean the guy who doesn't do that is less than? And then don't I stand in judgment of someone else if I have more money than them that they're less than? Oh my God,

no. Name, spirit. And let me, let me recognize through that. Let me recognize the Spirit in you

and not yet ethnic background, not where you were born, not what AA meetings you go to. Let me just recognize the Spirit in you, the great reality deep down with you, within you,

that allows me to come right back to presence.

Not trying to interpret

the moment. Not trying to interpret,

trying to figure out or judge,

just presence.

Why doesn't Barefoot Bill wear shoes

from Lina?

No,

I don't think there's going to be a comment.

Here we go.

Peter, Chris, are you guys for real

now? It says here how? How did your concept of God evolve during years of recovery, Working the steps and working with others.

My my concept of God in the beginning was was pretty grim. I had I had a a distorted Old Testament ish type of punishing God and white robes up on a throne in heaven ready to punish my ass

the minute I get up there. You know, with probably 200,000 years of purgatory and then send me to hell just as a joke kind of kind of conception of God.

I only knew, you know what what I know,

and I think it was it wasn't the transmission of spiritual knowledge and spiritual concepts that was the problem. It was the receiver that was defective.

I, I went to Sunday school as a Methodist. That's kind of kind of safe and harmless really. I mean, I don't, I don't remember them teaching me anything that was scary. And Methodism.

I had AI, had a family who

were not overly religious but certainly went to church. My father wrote a book on Basking Ridge Methodism that's still around somewhere. My brothers and sisters sang in the choir. You know, we the minister was down to the house.

And I remember when I was a kid, I had, I had, I had a pretty nice conception of God. It was, it was kind of warm and friendly and parental. It became twisted as myself Will started to manifest itself because I was like a budding alcoholic, you know, I mean

self Will started to run riot before I even started with the drugs and the alcohol

as when I got into Alcoholics Anonymous, the last thing in the world I wanted to hear was God was going to be my ultimate solution. That was not good news to me.

Um, you know, and I, I was smart enough to understand the underlying concept of the steps when they were written up on the wall. They might call it your higher power, but I knew what it meant because it was, it was capitalized. You know what I mean? I said, I know what they're saying there.

And I had a lot of prejudice, a lot of preconceived negative ideas about spirituality and the God concept. I saw it as people that were weak might need that, but I'm okay. I I, you know, I'm strong enough to get by without that stuff

and I kind of fooled myself. But the fact of the matter is, is my quest for God went on throughout my whole existence. I really believe that the alcoholic or the drug addict, their underlying inherent problem is an unsatisfied search for God. I think that deep down in us, we have a need to be one with our creator and we'll use whiskey, we'll use sex, will use,

we'll use money, we'll use whatever we need to do to try to get that feeling,

that feeling of oneness.

As I started to move through the steps, my experience with a loving creator started to started to happen. And again, we speak so much up here about begging you basically to have your own experience with that so that you can, because it's not something that really can be discussed intellectually.

God is not, is not a theory

a God. God is not really a noun. God is more of a, a verb. God is more of a power. God is more of an experience, more of an experience than anything else. And, and to be able to, to be touched by that I think is the greatest thing in the world. I think it's, I think it's the whole point of the 12 step program. I think it's what our recovery is made of.

So rather than

describe my specific experience with God, I'd rather encourage people to have their own. However you need to do that,

Let's do another one here.

In your opinion, why should a member be ready to sponsor another newcomer

during and after completion of the 12 steps?

Yeah.

Could you repeat it?

Turn it on.

Hi, I'm Henry. I'm an alcoholic. My question is, you know, as a new member just starting to go through the steps, when should, in your opinion, should a person be ready to start sponsoring other people while they're going through the steps or after they've completed the 12 step process? Well, I'll save opinions because I don't like to give opinions, but I'll give you my experience with that stuff and what I do with guys

that I'm sponsoring. They need to get through

to their amends before they were able to take someone on as a spot, as a prospect that changes from probably take a poll in here. Maybe people have different ways of doing it. But I I like to line up books as we've entered the world of the spirit and that comes as we've cleaned up the wreckage of our past. And at that point, I feel if I'm sponsoring someone, they can take someone else on.

One of the things I used to hear,

part of the

part of the wrong information that was passed around in the fellowship when I first came in, was everything. You had to have a year for everything. You had to have a year to get into a relationship. You had to have a year to be a treasure. You had to have a year to start sponsoring people. I don't know what the big deal is on day 366, you know what I mean? That all of a sudden you're enlightened or something like that. You know what I mean? And I personally don't even know of anybody that waited to have a relationship for 365 days.

And, you know, we only say that to keep you humble because we know that you're, you know, you're going to fall short.

But

somebody told me a relationship is the best thing in the world for somebody brand new. It'll send them flying into the steps because of horrible pain, you know,

so you never know. So anyway, the beginners meeting in Basking Ridge, which I've been, I've been frequenting for about 17 years now. One of the things that was suggested in the second I had a chance to rewrite the the whole deal I wrote it out of there was that a sponsor should have a year.