Workshop titled "The Spirit of the 12 Steps" in Santa Fe, NM

And then Gary helped me understand that. He's like, well, doing a thorough inventory and review at night sets you up for the morning. You're clear in the morning, when you you're starting to go through the day. But I just I answer the questions. I do what it asks.

Do was I resentful today? Most of the time, it's, yeah, I was. And this is what I was resentful at, and and I'll talk about it briefly with if I'm doing this with somebody or I'm doing it in a conversation with my creator. Have I been selfish? I answer that question.

Dishonest or afraid? Do I owe an apology? I just answer the questions. Have I kept something to myself which should be discussed with another person at once? If I if something comes up with that, I immediately call my sponsor.

If I get can't get my sponsor, I call somebody else. I don't wait with that stuff. And if I can't get ahold of somebody, it's I talk about it the very next day as soon as I'm able. The great thing about doing this too with somebody else is, like, you're thinking if you wanna be naughty during the day, you're like, I'm not gonna do it because then I gotta tell them about it later tonight. Seriously, that's kept me in check a couple times.

You know, what could I have done better? Was I thinking of myself most of the time? Of course, I'm always on my mind. Truly. Was I thinking of others and what I could pack into the stream of life?

I love that line, packing into the stream of life. That is a great, thing to take into a meditation. What does it look like to pack into the stream of life? And I could talk to you about my experience about have your own. It's kick ass.

Take it take that into meditation. But we must be careful not to drift into worry, remorse, or morbid reflection for that would diminish our usefulness to others. And it's not about me. It's about other people. It gets in the way.

I start squandering the hours that could have been worthwhile being of service to you if I am, drifting into remorse and in early sobriety, I mean, every time I thought about myself, it was not a good story. It was not a happy, fun story. I was bad. I was a piece of poo. I'm never going to be anything.

Look at what I've done. Look at, you know, the mistakes I made. I mean, just on and on and on. It was all negative, all of it. And just feeling bad about myself and that, you know, I'm never going to be anything.

I'm never going to go anywhere. You know, I'm ruined. I'm damaged goods. I mean, just all that stuff on and on and on. And I'm happy to report today that that rarely happens to me anymore.

And that used to be a regular occurrence and, that rarely happens today. And I think it's just from trying to live this way and I'm just not consumed with myself like I used to be and all of the things that I didn't like about myself have been treated spiritually and put to good use. And I think that's why I just don't drift into that stuff. I do get mad at myself sometimes, but I discuss it with my sponsor and we move on. Like, I wish I wouldn't have done that.

You know, I'm mad at this situation or I'm mad at that person, but I'm mad at myself because I made that decision. I wish I wouldn't have done that. I wish I would have paused or I wish I would have sought, you know, sought this out or talk to you first before I made that decision or took that action. So, you know, but then move on. You know, I wanna mental masturbate it.

You know? There's no fun in that. I'm gonna masturbate it. You know? There's no fun in that.

Sounds a little exciting, but, you know, never goes anywhere. So, step 12. Practical experience shows that nothing will so much ensure immunity from drinking as intensive work with other alcoholics. It works when other activities fail. What are other activities?

When prayer is not working, when going to a meeting isn't working, when having coffee with another drunk as a friend isn't working. Writing inventory, it ain't working. That was a sad day when I couldn't work some magic with inventory to make myself feel better, which I used to do quite often. Carry this message to other alcoholics. To me, it means this message.

They wrote it down for us so that we wouldn't mess it up, but to carry my experience with this message. Not my interpretation of the message, but my experience with the message. Carry that. That's what works. This is what has death in weight.

Life will take on new meaning to watch people recover, to see them help others, to watch loneliness vanish, to see a fellowship grow up about you, to have a host of friends. This is an experience you must not miss. We know you will not want to miss it. Frequent contact with newcomers and with each other is the bright spot of our lives. And that is my experience today.

And that's, it has changed my life and changed my experience in living. Every, all of there's very specific directions in here, on how to be of service to another alcoholic and how to help them, how to talk to them, how to approach them, what to do, what not to do. I've made every mistake that's in here. They tell you don't talk from a spiritual and moral hilltop. I've done that.

You know, they ask you not to lecture. I've done that. I've talked to people and not been convinced of their own alcoholism and tried to help them and make them into alcoholics. I've done everything you're not supposed to do. I've made all kinds of mistakes.

But I've always tried to be there to be of service. So I haven't ruined anybody or damaged them where they can't be here. So, you know, get out there and start helping people. You're going to make all kinds of mistakes. Who cares?

Go do it. Seriously. Don't sit around and wait to be the perfect sponsor or carry the perfect message. Just go do it. I called Don one time and I was all, you know, upset about something.

I'm like, Don, I gotta go through the steps again. It's time for me to surrender again. He just laughed at me and said, go find a new drunk. Go take them through the steps. I'm not gonna sit here and do this with you.

You don't need to go through the steps again, you navel gazer. Go find somebody to help. They talk about in here that if you get busy with this, if you get on the firing line of life, that your life is going to be disrupted. And they go into great detail about what that's gonna look like. Phone calls in the middle of the night.

Bernadette calling you early in the morning. Happens. You know, you're gonna have drunks in your home. I used to bring drunks home. Alex finally said, Jesus, can you call me first?

You know? I live here, too. You know, get their consult, consult with them. And, you know, I've made all kinds of mistakes. I've I've done things all kinds of crazy, And, it's been fine.

It's been fine. So when when somebody asks me to help them, I do not say no if somebody asks me to sponsor them. I never say no. If I am convinced that they are an alcoholic, if they wanna live, and I ask them these questions. Well, I wanna find out about them.

I wanna know, are you an alcoholic? I wanna hear their experience and I share my experience with them. If I'm convinced that they if I'm if I'm convinced that they're alcoholic, I ask them, do you wanna live? If they say yes, then I say, are you are you ready to go to any length? If they even hem and haw, I'm like, we'll talk about that later.

I don't even waste my time because I'm getting ready to invest some time. If they say they're willing to go to any length, I say, okay. This is these are my criteria in sponsorship. They must make a minimum of 3 meetings a week. It's a must.

It's not an option. I wanna know which 3 meetings those are. They must get a home group. I don't care if it's my home group or some other home group, but it must be a home group that's healthy and active in the structure of Alcoholics Anonymous. It's imperative that that they start learning how to be committed to something because commitment is not an alcoholic's forte.

It's not. They gotta be willing to make a commitment to that group, which means they've gotta be there unless they are dead sick or out of town. They must get a job in that home group. They don't have to be through the steps to get the job. They don't have to be through the steps to start being of service.

A lot of times, I'll tell them to put their name on the list at inner group, which is like our central office, that they're available for rides if they've got a car. So that if they get the call, they say yes. And I explained that to them right up front. If you get the call, you say yes and you go. You go get them.

They have to meet with me once a week for an hour and a half, and it's not optional activity. If they cancel it more than 3 times, we're done. I'm not wasting my time. They meet with me for an hour and a half until we're through the steps. Once they're through the steps, I expect them to start helping other alcoholics.

And I demand respectability. Be a respectable member of Alcoholics Anonymous. For the women, I ask them to show up fully closed at meetings. That's a big deal. You know, don't show up at a meeting with your ass hanging out and your belly hanging out.

You know, these low cut shirts, You know? I mean, it it's nice to look at, but you're not here to create a distraction. You're here to recover and find some new woman to help. That's why you're here. Once you've gotten you've woken up spiritually, it is your job to carry this message.

And if they're not willing to do that, then we part ways. And and that's okay with me. And I tell them that we will be friends. Now when I first started sponsoring, that was not okay with me if they were not willing to do that. I would try to convince them.

I would chase them down. If they weren't making the commitments, I'd be on their butt going, what's going on? You agree to this. You need to get over here. Lots of pressure.

And, I mean, I it's still the fear of god, you know, and it doesn't work. It doesn't work. So what I have found out is and I'm just very clear about what my expectations are. And if they're brand new, I tell them my own experience. You know, when I was brand new, I was in a meeting every day, sometimes twice a day, but that's up to you.

This is the minimum requirement. The minimum. So So that's what we do. Now if, if I got a really hard case and I wanna see if they're really willing, which I've done with women that have come to me multiple times to sponsor them. And then they fall off and then they come back.

I'll tell them, I want to see you at my house at 5:30 am. And that's when we're gonna meet. And then sometimes, I'm hoping they don't show up because I wanna sleep in. Truly. But I set the bar high to see if they're really willing because they've had their opportunity the easy way.

And then, you know, and then they back out or they decide they wanna do it, and then they come back. So I'll set the bar high. Meet with me every day at 5:30 and we will get busy taking these steps. That's a that's a commitment from me. So I'm willing to make that commitment if they are willing to make that commitment.

I'll do it. If somebody says, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm willing.

I'm willing. Yeah. I agree. I'm not like, too. I don't have to fire anybody either.

They fire themselves. I have only maybe let go of 2 people in my entire sponsorship career. And, and I truly was not helping them and that, that they were not hearing the message from me. It was not happening. And we were just in constant conflict and that's, that's a waste of their time and mine.

And that's something I'll say too. You know, if if you don't wanna do this, this is fine, but let's let's part ways and let's stay friends because you and I will be in conflict because this is what I do and you don't have to do it. It's totally up to you. And that's, that's what I do. Not everybody does that.

Some people are stricter. Some people are not as strict or whatever you want to call that. But that's what works for me. So that's what I do. Some people will come along and, and they will, they'll get on board with it and then they'll fall away.

It doesn't bother me a bit. It frees me up. If somebody fires me, I really, I don't care. It frees me up. I used to get very attached to that though.

And I would get my feelings seriously hurt. Sponsorship meant ownership to me for a long time. That you were mine. You must never leave me. You must make me look good.

You must become an outstanding AA member, you know, and all that stuff. And everybody's on a different path and and on a different road, you know. So sponsorship is not ownership, and I would get highly upset and just come after them if they weren't doing what they what I'd asked them to do. I went mutual inventory on it. Mucho, mucho.

And it's been great because I've learned a lot about myself and my character defects through sponsorship. And it's, you know, sponsorship is one of the biggest gifts that I've been given in Alcoholics Anonymous. I know I'm not the answer. If I don't have experience with something, I send them to somebody who does. And I used to get, you know, I talked about this a little bit.

I used to get very threatened if I didn't have the answer if they heard the answer from somebody else. Because I don't want them leaving me or thinking that somebody's better than me. And it's all good experience. Really good experience. It will put you into the stream of life.

It will put you on the firing line of life. There's a thing in there that says don't hesitate to go to the, I don't know, the most sordid place in town. If if you were on the firing line of life and your motives are good, you can go anywhere. And that's been my experience. I've gone to the worst places in Richmond, have lived in some of the worst places in Richmond.

We go anywhere. We get the call. We go. That's how I've been raised in AA. I don't sit around and wait for it to happen.

We go, we go do this. And like I said before, Don's like, you gotta put action on these directions. You gotta quit studying them. You gotta quit thinking about them and go do it. Go have an experience with it.

So that's what I've done. So now I've got this incredible fellowship around me, not only with the women I sponsor and the women they sponsor and the women they sponsor, but also within my home group and also within the community at large in, in Richmond, Virginia. And we're very active and we do a lot of things together. It is, we have camaraderie together. And I don't and I'm gonna share this with you.

This isn't to toot my own horn. It is what has happened as a result of me doing what AA talked about and what Bill Wilson talked about. Gary was down, doing a retreat with Jerry Elkins, and, I was there with a lot of the women I sponsored, our sponsorship family. And, he was telling me later, he goes, or him and Jerry were talking, and they were like, We've never seen anything like it. I've been all over the country.

I've never seen anything like that. With women in AA, which I thought was a damn shame. It made me realize how lucky we are and how true these promises are. That if you will get busy trying to be of service to other people in Alcoholics Anonymous, you will create the fellowship that you crave. And it's beyond, it's beyond what I expected.

And I'm just a, I am a small part of that. I got to be a part of something that is bigger than me, and I get to participate in something that is bigger than me. It's incredible. It really is an experience you must not miss. And I've had my heart broken by women I've sponsored, because I've loved them dearly, and they've had to go different things, do different things.

This one gal that I sponsored, her and I are good friends today. Her name's Debbie. And, when Dom would come to town, she would he would stay at her house, her and her husband's house. And I sponsored her. And, I had set up, such a this is this was before I would be totally honest with anybody about who I really was.

I would just talk about the big book and what we do, and I was talking about perfection. So my, what she perceived is I can't be honest with you because I need your approval. I can't be honest with you because I'm gonna let you down. You think I'm a bad AA and all this other stuff. And, I made it so uncomfortable for her and there was so much pressure there from me.

And, and Don was there when all this was going on, she had to leave the nest and it broke my heart. And I, and I set it up where she couldn't hear me anymore. And when she got into real trouble, she couldn't hear me. And she was at that point where she's in real trouble. She couldn't hear what I was saying.

I had set this up so badly where her dependence and reliance was upon me. And, it was just awful. Now I can't take all the responsibility for that. She had to go do what she had to do. And she relapsed and all that stuff.

And she's back in ANA now and she's actually my next door neighbor and I love her and we're very close. She's like my sister. But I learned a lot from that experience. I can't put other, I cannot create the environment where I'm putting their dependence upon me. That this really is about me taking them through walking with them through these directions and getting their dependence on a power greater than themselves because I can't solve their problem.

Even though for a long time, that's what I was busy trying to do in sponsorship was trying to solve their problem. And I can't even solve my own problems and I'm trying to solve yours and fix yours for you. I can't do it. So, you know, God's large and in charge and God can take care of it. I don't need to fix it.

I don't need to fix their life. A lot of times I get uncomfortable because they were unhappy or they were uncomfortable. Like I shared with you before, I can't rob rob them of their experience. It's the worst thing I can do to an alcoholic. My desperation and pain has been the biggest gift that's ever been given to me.

Good, strong sponsorship will never rob you of that. They will let you make all the bad decisions in the world that you wanna make and say, good luck kid. Report back. Let me know how that works out for you. You know?

And when I come dragging with my tail between my legs, I've learned something. I've been leveled. It was invaluable. Emerson had a quote and I'm, I'm gonna say it incorrectly, but it's about what happens in the fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous when we start getting God directed. You know, we have the circle and the triangle.

It's never ending. Life is a circle. The seasons are a circle. There's life, there's death, there's rebirth, life, death, rebirth, all that. That happens in AA.

We come here, we die, we get reborn in spirit. We go through these different seasons in sobriety. We die again, you know, all that stuff. It's one big circle. Emerson talked about that we as individuals draw our own circle.

And from that circle, other circles are drawn and other circles are drawn and other circles are drawn and it's powerful. I'll never forget Juanita Sharon at Fellowship of the Spirit when she was talking about the tree, the sponsorship tree, the circles that had been drawn, how one person can have a huge impact on those around them and in ways they don't even know, in ways that they may never hear about. You can touch people and may never hear about it. It's incredible stuff what happens here if I will let it loose and get out into life giving this thing away. That's one of my favorite prayers.

Father, let me be filled with your love and spirit. Prayer flows through me into lives of others. It's not something I get to keep and hoard, which sometimes I wanna do. It is not mine. I have to give it away.

And getting active in the program of Alcoholics Anonymous is a great way to start experiencing that. And there's many ways to be of service in AA. And if you say yes, you will be called to do it and you'll get the opportunity to do it not only in your home group and in sponsorship, but also at the service, your, area level, in your district, at the state level. And that's an incredible experience in itself. Watching drunks, It's like herding cats.

I'm telling you. I just I just went to an assembly 3 weeks ago, the beginning of must have been present or something because usually it's like herding cats. Trying to get must have been present or something because usually, it's like herding cats. Trying to get drunks to agree on anything. Some people just like to disagree just to disagree.

They don't care. They just want to be a minority opinion. Just to be it. But that's good. We need people like that.

We need people like that. So if you get busy, also, you're gonna become a leader in Alcoholics Anonymous. That's a powerful responsibility, and it it will happen. If you become active and you become willing to give of yourself, you will become a leader. It's just an it's a fact.

Haven't seen it not happen. So there's principles for leadership. The place that Don directed me was in our World Services manual. If you wanna know how to be an effective leader, the directions are right there. The principles that we try to live by, are right there.

It's good stuff. Check it out. Does anybody have any questions about sponsorship or carrying this message Or experience they wanna share? I have a question. I think it's pretty well answered.

Sometimes, I'll tell the Fonsies that if you have a question, you know, stop me because I'm reading the book to them. And Mhmm. And so sometimes I'm stopped and they talk about some other Mhmm. Way of well, I did this in Eslam or whatever. There's some other kind of thing, and it goes on and on.

And I'm like, you know, I don't want to just be controlling and say, Stop. We're just talking about this. Mhmm. I stop controlling. I say, Stop.

We're talking about this. That's right. Like after the second word? Well, you know, and I've sat down with people and and they start just going on a tirade and they wanna talk about their entire week and they wanna just start talking about all this other stuff and and I will tell them, you know what? Call me with that stuff, or let's set up time to meet before a meeting or let's have coffee.

This time that we have decided to do together is for us to walk have this experience together. And that's what this time is set up for. I'll listen to that other stuff later. I have no choice. My god.

Don, listen to me whine. I I like to have them identify with the group, but, like you said, not go on and on as a whole or Exactly. Yep. It's about identification. Right.

Yeah. Any other experience, or is there any questions? I just I really appreciate it, miss Ed. I I realized for myself in ways that, my sponsors said they're my biggest teachers. Mhmm.

Because who I was when I came in to talk to my kids. And I do think that life goes on and circles go on. And things shift. And the people who, were the people I knew. And Don said something one time that brought this who, were the people I knew.

And Don said something one time that brought this more to me than anything else. He and Jackie used to come back to me a lot. And, you know, a chair. And he would he would always say that he was supposed to have been he'd look over the next morning to see how God had changed Jackie. Mhmm.

And their relationship became right there. And I understood that for myself anyways, that I was, and I did this, especially like with my daughter. When I came in the hall, she was 10. And she's 44 today. And so it was like, I was relating to her like she was 16.

Mhmm. And I wasn't relating to her on where she was. And my sworn c's, because I've been him for a long time, and I've sponsored people for a long time. And not the people that I met Mhmm. When I first started to sponsor them.

And, so how I relate to them has, I've had to learn how to shift with that. And I recently lost a couple that, taught me more about my, reaction. Now, what they did didn't make any of Donnie's to say that. It made any What they did, my reaction to it was the problem. Mhmm.

And, you know, I was wrong. It didn't make any difference, you know, what they're doing. You know. You know, what it doesn't make that they were right either. Mhmm.

And, you know, what I did and how I reacted to them because of the situation that occurred was inappropriate. Mhmm. And I had to make a that that for me anyways, a relationship as close as sponsorship. I used to, you know, I loved when Tom and I used to say that, you know, you walk in there, you know, my sponsor doesn't have to nod. And, and I was raised that way.

My sponsors never had to knock. They just walk right in. It's time to walk in. But how I walk in is different than I used to walk how I used to do it Mhmm. About 15, 12 years ago.

Mhmm. I don't walk in the way I used to walk. Mhmm. Because there's a certain respect that I have to give that God is working with them. And that's what you said.

But there is still a point where if I'm still in namesake, their sponsor, I'll walk in. I'll give so much time. But when I'm not feeling good inside and I can check inside why am I feeling why why I'm feeling with somebody, then, because I think sponsorship is the result of the first prior 11 steps. Mhmm. And I'm not sharing my personality or something.

Okay. You know, that's I'm I'm not here for that. I'm here to develop a relationship with my creator going. Going to have these things. And if it wasn't for the ability to work with others, we couldn't see each other.

There's some people here with a lot of time. And I think we can take for me, anyways, it's been my experience in sharing with other people with us a lot of time. And what I heard you say is we're not done here. Mhmm. We're not finished.

We're not cured. And and, there will be these steps I don't have to take through today with my drink, and I already did that. But, in fact, I've been sober longer than I was drinking. And why am I still coming? Because, there's still errors in my life that I'm agnostic.

I'm a little independent at all. Mhmm. And I don't even know it. Mhmm. Until I had somebody give this to me.

And thank God for sponsorship because my sponsors sponsees have actually been the ones. I was talking to my sponsor and I talked to my sponsor more than I did. Mhmm. But I was talking to my sponsor and they said, it was this situation happened with the And and there, what happened with the the the response is was very inappropriate. It really was very inappropriate.

And so she said, well, it was. And I said, yeah. But the common denominator is just that I was there. So let's take a look at that. And and I did.

And and I was I was sharing this recently with some friends. And I said, what I realized is that as painful as that was, I couldn't have learned it any other way. I could not have learned it any other way because I love those people a lot. Mhmm. And, it's the ones that I that and that's the troubles.

I really love people. Mhmm. And they hurt. Mhmm. When they when you watch some things that happens with them.

But it taught me about my reaction and my possessiveness and where I was as a person. So, I don't think this goes one way anymore. Mhmm. And a lot of us that are long timers are perceived one way, and that's too bad. Mhmm.

Because we're still we're still, you know what is that thing? Thing? The Ken Wilber's thing? You know, we we're on the mountaintop, but then every day, we're carrying water and, you know, we're doing the drill. We're just doing the drill just like anybody else.

Mhmm. And, I will say one thing that I think has to be brought more and more because now I'm a long time. And and I heard this guy say this one time that they they picked up a white chip. And, you know, and, this person had a lot of time. And for about a year, he got up and did the chip thing.

Everybody clapped and hugged him and told him everything. At the end of the year, he said, I didn't bring. And nobody's coming to me. So don't forget, Jolene, I mean, don't send them something they're not. We're all just doing the same thing.

Mhmm. I'm doing the same. I've recently moved here. I've gotta tell you some people just know I was in the drug. Mhmm.

Very true. Yeah. I was gonna say something. And, Marcy, who I've sponsored the longest, she goes, I love it when you mess up. I love it.

I get to watch you do do this stuff. And, and it also lets me know you're human and that you're gonna make mistakes. And, for so long, I didn't want anybody to see the mistakes I made, but it's one of our most valuable assets in in helping other people is letting them see that we mess up because it's so easy in sponsorship for them. And if we, and we can allow it too, which is dangerous not to let them put us on a pedestal and, that we are human, that we're on the same path. And I tell you, with Marcy, I didn't even like her.

When I first started sponsoring her, I was finding ways to try to ditch her. And, she just offended me at every level. She used to, she was really dirty. She was like a hippie gone goth. She didn't shave.

She smelled bad. She used to wear an iguana, a live iguana to meetings. And she was just annoying. And, I didn't like her at all. And today, I love her.

I love her. And she's traveled with me when I had to go make amends and I've gotten to do the same thing with her. I mean, just amazing things. She's wanted to fire me several times. And I feel like to tell her, go, go take a look at that.

We were talking last night about, and I almost hate to say the word never because you know what that means. But I I don't ever wanna let go of my current sponsorship relationship. My idea is I will never leave my current sponsor unless my sponsor's message gets funky or my sponsor drinks or just really gets off the path. Because there's too much to be gained from a long term relationship. There's like these humps that we have to get over in sponsorship, as we're growing up.

And it's almost like a kid, you know, you think you're sponsored as a know nothing. There were many times I wanted to fire Don because he wasn't treating me right, or he wasn't listening to me or, you know, he wouldn't being nice to me. And he didn't understand me. He didn't really care or whatever my mind was coming up with, but I stayed in there. And, and I'm so grateful that I did, that I didn't cut and run because I wasn't getting my way or my feelings were hurt.

And, you know, and I I really appreciate what Mary just shared because sometimes I I not sometimes. I have to really watch how I talk to people, and how I respond, especially if they're, doing something that I know is heading them down a rough path where I know they're just gonna, I know they're gonna get slammed and I hate to see it. I don't wanna see it happen because I love them. I wanna protect them, you know? And I totally understand that.

And I've made a complete ass out of myself numerous times and, and I've had people fire me and it just, it breaks my heart. And in the back though, I'm always thinking, yeah, you'll be back. Or, you know, I see them go get some Mambi Pambi sponsor. I'm like, yeah. You just couldn't handle it over here.

It was heavy. You know? I mean, you feel. My little mind gets a hold of it. It's like, it doesn't matter.

Where have I been wrong? Where, you know, where am I wrong? So, anyway, what are you gonna say, Tom? Just something that you said, and I think right there was saying it now. This together.

We've spent a bunch of time with Bill Seed from California just in the last month. And, he was saying that we sponsor these guys that they'll say, well, I need to go through the steps again. And he'll go, no. You don't. You need to get a newcomer.

Take them through the steps and you will have a step experience. If you need to fit step with me, come back and we'll do that. Yeah. You can write some numbers for a fit step with me, but have your step experience with me. And I heard that in the morning to scream hallelujah.

Right? Mhmm. A guy in Denver once told me, dot, dot, that a guy in Denver who's I asked He said, how long has it been since you've gone through the steps? I said, well, you know, formally with somebody, it's been quite a while, but I I do, you know, my steps when I when I take other people to read with. No.

No. That's not working the steps. Uh-uh. That's not it. That's not your step experience.

And and later, I thought that is my step. So, you know, I'll I'll be working the 1st step with somebody. I'll see something about my first step I never saw in 21 years. Mhmm. Literally.

That happens constantly to me. I'll see things in the 3rd step, in every step, that that I never ever saw before. Maybe 3rd. Me too. Yeah.

I think part of that is the less dependent thing. You know, it's like my defense is on us. Like, let's say you're taking me to the Jets. It's like, I gotta be good for Valerie. You know, I gotta do I gotta show her how, you know, adept I am working with, you know, blah blah blah.

But if I'm taking you through, all my defenses are there. You know? Mhmm. And, I think it's a really important piece that you miss sometimes. That you you are working the steps, all of them, when you tell someone else to do the steps.

Mhmm. Right on. You know, someone else said always said to me, and I see this a lot in meetings. And I I've talked to the women I sponsor about it. A lot of times, you know, people will ask us for a phone number and we give it to them, and we don't get theirs.

And we don't call them. And I started thinking about what if, Bill Wilson had just, like, given his number to, Henriette and said, yeah. Pass it on to Bob. If he wants to talk to me, tell him to call me. And that's the attitude in AA today, most of the time that I see.

Is yeah. You you want my number? Here it is. Or they pass around the little thing, the where and when, and everybody writes their phone number on it, which is great. But I need to be getting their phone number too, and then calling them.

Cause I remember when I came in, I was terrified to speak to people Terrified. You know, the saying in our home group is, man and the guy say this, if a newcomer girl shows up, you know, it's like, you know, it's like fresh meat, man. They're on it competing for that chick. And the guys are like, damn, it's gonna be a year. Because they know I don't stand a chance.

Because the women in our group are like, yeah. I mean, they just they won't they won't mess around. They don't mess around at all. And if some guy gets a hold of one of the girls, they don't hesitate Hey, We need somebody to protect the men from us. What about the suggestion of men?

The newcomer guys. Because because let me tell you, you know, they you can hear a lot about male predators in AA. Females can be predators too. Prey on on men. And a lot of people don't see that.

And it's very true. Women can just be a little sneakier about it. A lot of more clandestine about it, but there are female predators in our politics and arms as well. What about the suggestion men for men, women for women sponsors? I think that's very important.

I know for me, I don't think I could have handled a male sponsor in early recovery just because I probably would have tried to run my game. You know, when I, so I've had female sponsorship until I got Don. When I first asked Don to sponsor me, he told me no, and that he would be my AA friend and my spiritual friend. I didn't like that answer. So I kept calling him anyway.

And, we were up in Maine and I, was trying to get up the nerve to ask him again. And, finally, I did. I said, Don, please sponsor me, please. And I was really nervous and scared to ask him. And he goes, you dummy.

We've been acting in that capacity for quite some time now. Why do you have to label it? And I'm like, because I do, you know, because I do. I've attached. But, on the whole, I think it's better if men sponsor men and and women sponsor women.

I don't know that I could have a if I, the stuff that happens when men are working with men is magic. The stuff that happens when women are working with women or you got a a group of women together, there's some serious power running around. You know, Don said to us one time, he's like, man, you get a group of women together with some serious power going on. We don't mess with that. I don't wanna mess with that.

I don't think I can have them it is paramount to me to have strong female relationships, and I do. I'm at my best when I'm with the women. A lot of my teachers, though, were male. A lot of people tell me I sponsor like a man. The men that I have sponsored, some of it is stuck in, but most of it hasn't.

And I don't know if it's a male, female thing. I don't know. I know I won't sponsor a newcomer male. From my experience, it just hasn't worked. But there's a lot of other experience here.

That's just been mine. I think if you have strong women, who are living this way and can help you, and you hear them, get a female. But there's also something to if, you hear somebody talking, I don't care if it's male or female, you hear them, go get it. For me, whether it's male or female, for me, I hated women when I got here. Hated them because I saw them as competition.

And, you know, and I had all the crazy thinking about women. You know, they're going to take your man. They can't be trusted. They're competition. You know, I'm a guy.

I hang with the guys. I'm not some manby pamby wussy woman. You know what I mean? I'm a biker, man. I mean, I had that kinda I carry a gun.

You you know what I'm saying? That kind of, mentality. To me, being a female was weak. I associated that with weakness. So I don't think I could have had a male and I I know I would have run my game.

I would have tried to. So for me, my experience has been good. I had women, sponsors initially and they helped me get through a lot of that stuff. So and I talk to a lot of women too, but my main teachers in my life, when I look at who's had the most influence on me, it's been men, male teachers. But then back to Mary's point, I sponsor predominantly women, and they've been my greatest teachers as well.