Workshop titled "The Spirit of the 12 Steps" in Santa Fe, NM

you know and that was good for me to see because I used to chase people down

so from down and like try to make them get this thing

and really attached to whether they got it or that or they did

and and really wanted them to to have what I have found and I started thinking about my experience with Camille and don they could care less

and it wasn't the dating love me I'm very good but that they knew that this wasn't about them

that either I was willing to do what they did hi rise in and it started to teach me a lot about sponsorship like today

I used to be very very rigid and my sponsorship and I mean I was planning out their life for them and this is what they were going to do and I have a pretty strong personality I can be a real steamroller you know and and I'm not past shaming you

actually I think you should break I mean it was just I was just like how brands on it

and I have guilt sure whatever you know you will get this brand of may you know because you will wake up spiritually as I have and if you have a business or is it happening then we've missed something about cutting back in I mean just crazy really really well type and region are you know I've done is tell me all the time like not only my life or death okay

so

what I learned today is that we're sponsorship it's like that you know it's something I choose like a for me today with my sponsor Jerry today I choose to be accountable to him he doesn't enforce that on me I choose it's my choice

he can't force me to be honest with him I choose that

he can't force me to do what I know I need to do an Alcoholics Anonymous I choose that

so it's like my life becomes an open book to my sponsor no matter what I don't we sit around and wait for my sponsor to chase me down and pull out the secrets of my heart and you know the famous for power in the corner like notice that I'm in pain

come try to save me and fix me and drove into my psyche and fix the wounded bird that I am

that's what I would do well just make up some crazy **** because I thought that that's what you need to hear steam trap to me you know I mean something had to be going on and I needed to be bad you know

so you know it's for I'd say a free weapon right in terms of sponsorship which is in in my understanding sponsorship which is free me up with the people that are sponsor

so I bet I'll talk more about that later but anyway Sir can you head me

that drive out to Louisville Kentucky

so I went out there about some money went out there

and

she sat me down and

you know she started talking to me about all three parts of Alcoholics Anonymous and what was actually doing and all three parts and I would ban it at that point in in bits and pieces of the big broke but not the whole enchilada

and I didn't realize the really read the whole enchilada

because it just had been explained to me that way

so

when she started taking me through the broken especially the first step

I don't think I think I was almost for your server before and I I'm not I think I know I was always for your server for really took a first step

add gaps where I knew I was an alcoholic and accepted that adapt and everything that that means that I'm absolutely one hundred percent screwed on my own power

no no question Indian manageability but the powerlessness over alcohol I had never gotten that before

and I hadn't heard about it talked in that way in meetings of Alcoholics Anonymous and communities to tell me all the time she was very big book is the greatest able should sifter there is if you can't reconcile in the big book which you hear in a meeting and it's not a

you know that they they wrote it down in black and white for us and put in the big book so we would mess it up

you know read the black part yeah and then we'll talk about that yeah don't get lost in the White

because that's what I want to do because I like to interpret

you know and add to and in a dynasty say Valerie dumber you are here the better Sarah exactly because sometimes let me just back on intellectual rant he's like I have no idea what you're talking about right now makes no sense at all but as rector made perfect sense to me at the time I knew too when I call on president Trevor if he goes did you hear what you just said

did you hear that am I right what what what we talk about whether the you know we're crazy stuff was coming out of Iraq or is he said

if you train them let's talk about that and I would be in you know

grocery we like yeah let's talk about that and I finally figured out how to constrain me up to this that

I mean shut up he's got some Italian yeah but okay let's talk about

not to run a fine you know

so instead of the United center in about the same recovery unity services mind body spirit twelve steps twelve traditions twelve concept saying know anything about twelve concept you know and she you know she told me to get into all three parts of these things to the best of your ability to circle represents home

you will become whole your life will become home your spirit will become whole and that's what's happened to me and I was just terribly broken and

I felt very hopeless so

service great promise to me

it took me a long time to come out of that depression N. M. several times going through the steps

and I'm and this is my experience

there are a lot of people that were around me that said Valerie you need to be medicated because I was suicidal I mean I was thinking about suicide every day

and one of the things that was given to me and I don't know why they trusted it but I did they said if you will give us an opportunity if you will go through this and if you're still there still no hope after this the more go look into that but let's give this an opportunity for

and

I was just willing I said okay as a result and I've been depressed ever since I was a little kid

but everybody you know so

I'll never forget the day that I I realized that I hadn't thought about suicide a long time

it was like a spiritual awakening for me

I haven't thought about suicide in a long time

there's also was incredible

I'm somebody with suicide attempts in the past

I've been hospitalized around that stuff several times

Sir I know the power of Alcoholics Anonymous and I know the power of these instructions in the power of getting a relationship with my creator change to me

did something to this up here

I got that psychic change that is so necessary for us

is my best thinking is I want to die

so I know that this stuff works in my depression the longer I'm sober becomes less and less and less and less I'll get back outside of it here and there they may last a day sometimes two days a prayer that god gave me was god help me not to get depressed about being depressed because god knows I like to let nurse my misery sometimes

why do we do that I don't know

I am now

and you know she should have me I look at the road tax prep

and I gotta tell you I went through this phase it was a big brick well I looked at every single word and was just like really anal retentive with it at twelve so rigid disk incredibly anal

I mean it was tight you know what I mean

and

and it was a good experience you know as a little big book of Vangelis and all that stuff and got a really bad reputation in their you know they didn't rob me when I was crazy but definitely didn't like me when I turn into a big book thumper check what's worse we don't know just go away

so

but that the in I love this definition of textbook unite community go buy an old dictionaries to go go find an old dictionary and and one this flea markets or windows antique bookstores from the thirties so I've gotten a couple of those I love this definition text book it says it's meant to be done in order steps are meant to be done or

it's information to transmit to me information about a topic which I know nothing about what do I know nothing about I don't know anything about live in sober comfortably

not that I don't even know how to live one of my favorite lines and we agnostics which resonated with me as like that is me I had to find a power by which I could live

because I don't live well at all on my own I I create havoc internally in out here

so rad yeah that's right that's me and to transmit an experience

and you know and the directions are there for to to transmissible experienced all of us

you know I am I wrong to pay the price

is there is definitely a price to pay here

and some days are more willing than others hello

so she got me into that of course you know we did the diagnosis of the problem

you know and what our prescription is and and all that good stuff which was great it was beautiful because it it put in ways that I could understand and that made sense to me

she was referred to the first directions as precisely how we have recovered

and and I'm just gonna say the cuss word that Camille said to me and it's on tape but that'll be okay

she's a precise means precise Valerie that means there's no **** gray area

because I'm all about the grand baby yeah she said it's damn lucky with it

we're not going to market up precise means precise we're going to do exactly what it says we're not gonna add to this

where I bring any secret mo Jo to it when I'm bringing outside opinions to it going to do exactly what they're asking us to do and ask god to help us leave our mind elsewhere

let's not get confused about what we do here let's keep it simple

and I was told very early on that with Camille that the truce is always simple it's never complicated truth is never complicated it's invests in this my emotions my head to get really complicated

of the truce is never complicated

so anyway I'm still going to ride in and read the prefaces and I just I would have been a great experience with the staff and you have reached the first action there start reading the stories in the back of the broken I I never read the stories in the back of the boat because it wasn't mine

she said talking me about return to Bradford for suggestion we would like it understood that alcoholic work as an avocation

that you know checks he said we do this for fun and for free

and without side of of repayment that this is an altruistic deal

but ultimately when you broil eight we will be heroes the staff is about service me being of service in every area of my life me being of being put to use by my creator really

that I am I am now in the world to play the role that god assigns

and sometimes I like to get in there and start assigning myself a role so I've got some good ideas and of course involves lots of money lots of sex and fame

in the tough talk about being humble and we're back at yeah I'm not so much but I can be humble when you're looking out of the habit while you're watching so I get a good report

that's how humbling them you know in anonymity becoming anonymous

hi to me don press release the epitome of anonymity

and demonstrated that principle and all of his affairs that was a humble man

that they didn't have the ego to given gone or whatever but a humble man

I think he

he got that in a minute please

all right it's time for a break

part of it is for you but it is for me

read

what's up

so I'm in a certain position to sell

just to let you know

well thanks to that really hit me

well as you know in the preface on the third edition that last paragraph it says

we hope that you make pies in reading one of the forty four personal stories and think yes that happened to me or more important yes I felt like that

our most important

yes I believe this program can work for me to

all right for a long time I used to define my alcoholism by my consequences

and

when I would go to meetings if we didn't have the same consequences

I didn't identify with you but if you started talking about how you felt there you had me specially you start talking about the loneliness the fear

the desperation

that I understood

but what are what our foundation is here

when the most profound things that happened to me in Alcoholics Anonymous is that I felt understood at daps for the first time in my life

and that's powerful because I used to run around not being understood at all and not even understanding myself

dont put words on that for me when he was talking about is drinking and people would look at him and say why did you do that he's like I don't know

and you know we try to come up

while behavior so bizarre

but in our hearts like he talks about in here we really don't know why we do it

I don't know

I don't know why did I didn't I don't know I don't necessarily need to do that I don't want for that to happen

I don't know

so instead of putting words on what I said listening to other members of Alcoholics Anonymous history putting words on my experience that helped me to identify that I'm absolutely in the right place it is when the most powerful things we can do is to talk about how we will really live on and how we're we're really think and what we're really doing

I'm such a liar though you know I always want to be something other than I really am

especially in sobriety I got caught up in that this is what I want you to see

but the reality of what I'm really doing is something entirely different usually with a dishonest

one break in some kind of internal moral code or or whatever not that I had many when I got here but the few that I had that started to get really instilled in me the breaking news on a regular basis as well

anyway so that's where I really started to identify do I feel like this so I think like this you know and then sponsorship you know if you're sponsored by somebody who who takes the steps out of the big block you know when you get into bill story they start asking you to identify with bill Wilson do you identify with the founder one of the founders of Alcoholics Anonymous did you think like bill did you drink like bill did you feel like bill because if you did you probably one of us

because we're closing I read Jennifer's with us we think they do but they don't

I mean we certainly have the human condition

but we're a little nuts real attached in some ways that's what I thought that's part of our charm

that's what I think I rather crazy you know

so that was that was really powerful for me that this is about identification

you know

when I talk to you hear me when you talk to I hear you drowned or staying on

one in four to the first edition talks about many do not comprehend that the alcoholic is a very sick person

I was the least to comprehend how sick I was was actually years into sobriety and and trying to live this way that I really started to understand how sick I really was I just didn't see

I can get it at all

you know and then they go on to talk about the beginnings of our traditions and and all that stuff and I like that it says on its desire to stop drinking

I don't know that everybody who comes day in a has an honest desire to stop drinking but who cares yeah maybe a seed gets planted

the first to the second edition was wonderful for me there's a lot there's tremendous history our our early days and Alcoholics Anonymous there's a lot of really good material out there these days to that talk about how we came about and it's truly

amazing the only reason you and I are sitting here today is because of these weird series of events that all happened in this most miraculous well

how we all came together and the timing and and the different parts of the country and god wasn't used in saints

he was using some goofy people

and in the end that talks to me too about god's mercy

when people used to celebrate we have a merciful father the the thing that would come to my mind when you said the word merciful and mercy was me server not my brother pending him down having just drank some nice orange juice doing that scripting and him screaming for mercy

I have no mercy I was torturing him and enjoying it

so that is my idea of mercy several new it's a merciful father that's what I saw that was my interpretation

hi I understand that today is just a limitless amount of compassion

four how weak I really am

that at my core I am a very weak person

that of myself I am nothing

and I absolutely need god's grace and mercy and compassion

and accepting that not allowing that to happen I didn't allow it to happen Judy just happened but

has it given me tremendous compassion towards god's kids

right on my own I'm just not capable of on my own I'm judging you

and comparing tia so

I digress but anyway so getting into Ravinder standing out this this wonderful series of events and you know doctor Bob is a crazy drunken he's tryin the Oxford group and which is a fundamentalist Christian movement and he's trying that in order to get sober and to stay sober and it's it's not working and they're very spiritually active people

and that's that's not happening and then there will send shows up from New York on a business deal which falls apart he goes into that you know in a lobby of the hotel is he gonna drinkers you gonna find another drunk to work with he starts calling all these churches in the lobby and the last church that he calls the guy says yeah call this ground Henrietta cyberlink who is in vault in the Oxford group and she says yeah I had somebody to talk to calls Dr Bob and his wife and she knows it and and and you know like a good Allen on knows how to do my system into a a meeting with bill Wilson and Dr Bob says all right well I'll go but I'm only going for fifteen minutes and they show up and they end up talking for six hours

M. Y. because bill Wilson was properly armed with facts about himself

about the new true nature of alcoholism

that there's something physically and mentally difference with us that non alcoholics just do not experience I don't care what kind of ritual you got going on a worship stuff you've got going on over here with the Oxford group it's not enough

you know we we we gotta be firmly grant and then this truth about what's wrong with me that's right clear inventory so important when I go into six and seven I need to be clear on what the problem is where where I've been hi my selfishness dishonesty and self centeredness fear whatever how that manifests

I don't know what the problem is I'm not very clear when I'm going to my creator asking for help

you know that's another reason why I don't think the check box inventory is very effective because it's too vague it's easy for me to start off early yeah I'm selfish and self centered

the

that's true but I never get to the root of that about how that manifests very important

so anyway I am I I read the stuff you know and it talks about import to the second edition that the position on the second page position had repeatedly tried spiritual means to resolve this alcoholic dilemma but have failed now identify with that I've been saved numerous times

hi and I have felt the movement of the spirit and I've gone up there on the altar calls

bindu those crazy evangelical you are healed

kind of staff that puts profits through his side story which originally was my sponsor in Elkins two or three weeks ago in response was talking about his I. brothers the Freewheelin Baptist preacher that's like hardcore and you know Jimmy Swaggart would come on the TV

any good I already bear with Jimmy Swaggart and Jim but I pray my brother's friend with me Jerry put his hand on the TV and he be programmers are not there yet I just got this horrible over a picture of that happening

I thought that was hysterical but I understand that desperately looking for an answer

when the things that Donna who dont share one time we he said I've always known my answer was spiritual in nature there's been some part of me ever since I was little that has searched for something that has been on a quest for something

and I've always known it was spiritual

and I can identify with that too to a degree when I was younger trying to commune with nature and the things around me but worldly clamorous always gotten away even as a small child people already obsessed with myself and my surroundings

so

so in that again if I was that I repeatedly tried spiritual means to end had failed but when the broker bill Wilson gave him Dr Sechrist description of alcoholism and its hopelessness this is a hopeless condition

it's bigger than everything that I can bring to bear

everything I can bring to bear

the best psychiatrist I've ever seen

everything that that shrink could bring to bear on my dilemma

was not enough the love of my parents not enough the love I have for my son not enough

my desire to be a good person not enough

everything I could bring to bear

everything the courts could bring to bear

it's not enough

that's a hopeless hopeless situation

you know what are we gonna do

you know and the the crazy thing with alcoholics is we've got another idea that doesn't involve this

now there's gotta be another way maybe if I re birth

no do the re birthing thing

I love the CLA

I showed up at a zero with my little teddy bear ready

I'm not their fault I knew it

I knew it

irreparable harm to me and damaged my spirit

he said it's their fault

hi

I have my parents

and and the Israeli meetings that are gone to in California we're very in and and I don't know if all a CO a meeting Sir this way I don't know I just know the one that I was attracted to Rosa

you are the victim

it's absolutely their fault and you were just damaged beyond repair

and your life's gonna suck because you're so damaged and you'll never get over this you know and I've had psychiatrists have said all you got to confront your past you guys confront your abuser said

no no it was the complete opposite of that

this isn't about them in a rare you wrong what have you done with it how do you cost harm we forgive that you know and and god knows when you got the power to do that

because on my own I like being a victim

they don't have to change you know and it's always your fault it's a miserable way to go there's no freedom there

so so as to run run through Wilson got the truth about his condition he starts to pursue this the spiritual remedy this spiritual answer for his malady that's a strong word but it's a great word that describes us maladies like mental illness

we're definitely mentally ill I'm rather ana how works is is that we come here with gravy motional on mental disorders we do our idea Mrs drunk Sino half

they'll come here

you know with everything intact

and seeing the world clearly what kind of gift

and I read what it says this seems to prove that one alcoholic could affect another's no non alcoholic could also indicated that strenuous work

one alcoholic with another was vital to permanent recovery vital

and that has been the example that has been demonstrated for me by my heroes Alcoholics Anonymous strenuous work with other alcoholics

active work with other alcoholics effective work with other alcoholics you can be really busy and I had a lots of activity but no real action

and what I was shown was effective action

and I've made a lot of mistakes with that which we'll talk about more later but but that has been my

I am willing to do that

and actually I think when somebody wakes up spiritually they can't not do it

that's been my experience and that's been my experience with people that are sponsored is once they get it they're on fire man

they want to save the world it's great

but they're actively they become actively engaged in helping other people

bless you

all right Donna X. I. X. what is that I don't know what number that is

the fourteen ninety five to nineteen

I'm rather some smart people here

I don't know what that is

in that first paragraph it says you know they're talking about the

reality of Alcoholics Anonymous and mistakes we make it says but out of this frightening

end of first disrupting experience the conviction grew the days had to hang together

or die separately we have the unifier fellowship or pass off the scene

and I find that that's true in every area of my life that that principle goes and has to go into every area of my life and it's paramount that I practice that principle in my home group

and I'm very

passion

and I guess somewhat protective about our traditions when I

when I first got here

he has gone between both fellowships AA and NA I was introducing myself as an alcoholic and an addict and I thought I was both I used a tremendous amount dogs love drugs

and then I didn't know any different

and and then over time I got a hold of me and said you know when you're in a meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous you need introduce yourself as an alcoholic

and I thought they were full of poo and I thought that that didn't apply to me and they needed to change the rules that the reality of that old man is that has changed and you guys just weren't around when this is going on but let me tell you this is what goes on now

I'm gonna write GS Sir because this is crap

you know we should everybody should be able to come in and be a member and I guess I got into a fight with an old timer told of how he was wrong

and make it a little bit different but no clue

and and then later Camille got a hold and I believe that

through and through and would have defended to the death

that a a needed to change because times have changed

and then Camille got a hold of me and of course it done got a hold of me about our singleness of

singleness of purpose and how important that is to our survival

that this really is about one alcoholic helping another alcoholic I one time I was trying to help heroin addict

and she was coming I'd matter in a

a correctional facility and she had a little drink keep here and there and she was very attracted to AA is very attractive to our fellowship she asked me to sponsor her she said she was an alcoholic and an addict I took her through the book she would change her experience to be an alcohol she lied about her experience being overall I desperately wanted her to be an alcoholic I wanted her to be in a

I wanted to keep working with her

of course I wanted to be the one who brought marker around issues hardcore you know their status in that

so so she couldn't stay here

because I will kill

Alex relax not you can't be both but my experience has been that they're far between they are the minority

but she was she was a heroin addict not alcoholic there was no alcohol was in there she was alcohol could put it down and walk away

she could not do that with heroin I was over her and I was so naive about her

she came into the meeting should be mad that

I will let this go because I'm tired I'm

we need to get some rest

can you too hard at that restaurant

hearing she's risen wrote you know getting thin as a rail here she got the bruises she says just ran a lot of flus

yeah she's rocking a little funny because she was sued by Peter and that what got some abscesses or whatever am clueless because I've never shall

not a clue

and so I go over to her apartment one time and I'm gonna help us we're sitting on the sofa covering the big wrote to her and she's not

the band broke

it's called the hotline he was with the one

get the hell out of there

you can't help her

you have no experience with that and she was actively in her direction he said ask her if she wants to go to and in a meeting or go to the hospital that's how you'll know she really wants help

because she could call me and I could come over make her feel better for a little while

and I was only too happy to do it because I wanted her to make it

and I realize I was harming her

so Astor do you do you want to go and the answer was no

and it was it was heartbreaking for me I did not want to leave her apartment but I laughed I've seen her a couple times here and there but you know that relationship was done at that point

so he said this piece that they're talking about about art we have to hang together is vitally important and I you know have seen alcoholics hiding out narcotics anonymous

so I mean we will kill addicts no doubt my monthly

I'm sorry I'm very clear on that my home group is very clear on that when we have somebody who shows up at our home group that's a drug addict we don't yell at them we appreciate them kindly because I've seen that happen in a a before we you don't belong here you go find another fellow should get out of here what do you doing here I mean we're on kind stuff not ready is about at all

so what we do with our group consciences is we sit down and we talk to them and help them find out you know do you have questions about whether you're an alcoholic and that's our responsibility as a members let me help you find out if you're an alcoholic of our time

and if you are not I know some people that are members in good standing in narcotics anonymous let me hook you up with them

let me take you to them and being that bridge for them so they can find the fellowship they crave the starship they need that understanding that touches us adapts

what they're talking about here

the thing that that I know what it means to be an alcoholic

I know what it means to be you know heroine act the thing that goes on I don't know anything about that hi I'm never been down that path

so

so to get some experience with that and stop fighting had to go make amends that'll time a boy that was humbling he enjoyed it a whole bunch

it is a good friend today and we read about that it just goes to show you have the time I you know you think you know what's going on but you don't know nothing yeah I mean

so so as we discover the principles by which the individual alcoholic could live so we have to involve principles by which the age groups and M. as a whole could survive and function effectively so I don't fight with the traditions are concepts anymore and I used to fight with them and disagree with and and that's a whole nother conversation but I don't I'm I don't fight with anymore I comply with the conditions I respect my elders and I respect days experience

and not that I don't ask questions I do and there's been times where I have been agreed but I've always been encouraged by sponsorship that it's okay to question question everything

don't be afraid to question everything and and have your experience

yeah

those are some of the things in there that will mean a lot to me that last paragraph on that forward to the second edition

it says the pine therapy for the alcoholic himself we surely have no monopoly

well I wouldn't like that

because I think what everything

hearing and nobody else is getting it like we're getting it

and

that would again about that

where is our great hope that all those who have as yet found no answer

may begin to find one in the pages of this book Emma presently join us on the high rate rose to a new freedom so if you want we have to do what we do if you've tried everything and nothing worked then we may have an answer for you

if you know if me going to the evangelical and I got saved if that'd work that's where I'd be today

but that that didn't work for me if good therapy worked I'd still be a regular therapy person

god knows I love to talk about myself you know

that'd be fine

the kelp keep delving into the crevices of my psyche

you know and discover uncharted territory

but I could become really smart now

so what does that work does that solve my problem that would be the message I would Kerry and that's where I would be

I'm if taken the steps are Hazelton had solved my problem

that's the message I would Kerry that's what I would be doing

and and again this is my experience there's a lot of people in a way that have different experience that's valid

yeah I can get so urgent with mine but I think that they're all doing it wrong because they don't do it this way and my gosh I used to get into some

Yellen matches about that here's a great example my husband does not do it I do

and we used to have not down drag outs I mean we would argue for six hours

I'm not joking for six hours on a line in the big brick on what it meant

you know like I was a believer he well they've come around now which I'm very happy about

I was right or wrong

that

for a long time with the belief that he response within as you do one through nine once and then you live in ten eleven and twelve

there's nothing wrong with that

that's what works that's fine I don't know I haven't met too many people maybe that's true if you can practice ten eleven twelve perfectly really regular so stuff isn't building up or whatever I'm just not there yet