Workshop titled "The Big Book experience" in Dundee, Scotland

89876

513

Yeah. Good evening. My name is Scott Lee and I'm alcoholic.

Thanks for coming back. Let's open if we could, with a few moments of silence and acknowledge God's presence in Astro. Open Hearts.

Amen. Thank you. This session we're going to begin with what Bob and I affectionately call questions and dumb looks. We we don't promise answers. We may not have any. I want to tell you that the overall first answer is we agree with whatever your sponsor said,

but we will do them as best we can. Go ahead.

There's an interesting question.

Alcoholic by the way

it says if this is a spiritual non religious program, where exactly does the Lord's prayer come into it? For if the Lord is the creator, then he is simply this big brings the religion into it does it not? Serenity, courage and wisdom. I get this prayer doesn't bind with religion and whether God is a group of drunks or

OK, there's a controversy right in that right in alcoholic synonymous today

in some parts of the world where

it really I this is my this is my view. Uninformed people are discarding the traditional Lord's Prayer, which in a letter from Bill Wilson to the Fellowship, he said that the reason we use the Lord's Prayer was not because it it had roots in Christianity, but because of all the prayers and all the religions in the world.

It was closest to our principles of the 12 steps. When it says forgive us our trespasses as we forgive, we're talking right there about the essence of a lot of step 4:00 and 5:00.

When you talk about our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name, thy Kingdom come, thy will be done is a lot of what's in Step 3

where oddly enough the the the little snippet of the serenity prayer that people think is non religious. If you ever looked at the whole Serenity prayer, it is one of the most Christian affiliated prayers because it talks specifically about Jesus Christ.

It talks specifically about him forgiving our sins, and it is very Christian. And Bill Wilson in this letter to the fellowship said, said that at the very least these people that would like to do away with the Lorde prayer and probably a lot of other prayers that it is at least it's an exercise in tolerance for them to stand there and have to listen to the rest of the people who care to say it, say it.

I, I think that this, I, I, I've one who believes that any,

anything that fits with our principles works. I don't see the, the Lord's Prayer particularly as being a religious prayer connected to religion. I see it as being a set of principles expressed in a prayer that parallels very closely the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous. And that's what Bill Wilson said in his letter to the fellowship. That's why they did it. And it was traditional with the early members. It's been a prayer, you know, it's the only prayer that's been ratified by the General Service Conference

to be the official prayer to end the conference. That's the only prayer that's ever been ratified by the the body of the delegate body of Alcoholics Anonymous. I I would observe also that that's actually a Jewish prayer. It's written by a Jewish guy, right? He's kind of an interesting thought. Remember, Yeah. When the prayer was was coined, there was no such thing as Christianity.

It's another question here. If you're at an, A, a meeting where the main message is don't lift the first drink and get to lots of meetings

and you'll be OK, How do you respond? A couple of ways. And I think what I like to do, and I coach them and I sponsor. I go to open discussion meetings. I don't like to go to meetings where they take a topic from the floor. Yeah, the the chairperson says who's got a topic. The newest newcomer dumps his bucket in the next 8 newcomers tell him how to fix his life. I don't want to listen to it. At my Home group, our chairperson brings us a reading a paragraph or less out of a a literature, which by the way is

in the front of your big book. They read a paragraph or a lesson, set a discussion topic in 3 minutes or less, and we talk about recovery every time. At my Home group, I'm also in a Home group that virtually everyone there with over two years, everyone exceptionally high percentage, way over 90%, everyone there with probably over a year has a sponsor and has either done the steps or somewhere in it. So I'm in the middle of a, of a group of people who do this stuff.

When I have to disagree with something I've already heard in a meeting, I like to say

my experience is different. It's the way I begin that. So I don't want to invalidate if I disagree with something someone says, I don't want to fight them. I want to save them. Or if I'm, if I'm the one that's out of bounds, I want them to save me. So I don't want to be confrontational. And I would say my experience is different. My sponsor gave me the definition of the program. Page 59. Here are the steps we took suggested as a program recovery. And I, we like to say for those of you who are hiding behind the fact that the steps are only suggested, we have good news and bad news.

The good news is you're right. They're only suggested the bad news. They're the only suggestions we got

and that's why I like to deal with that one.

There's a two fold question. Part one Can the 12 step program remedied remove the need for antidepressants?

That's a very hot, hot topic.

I don't know that Alcoholics Anonymous was designed for anything other than the treatment of alcoholism.

Alcoholics Anonymous is a program. Doesn't have any opinion on antidepressants.

I have some observations and some experience. I've sponsored, tried to sponsor people that were on antidepressants and I this is funny. I just had this happens a couple months ago. A guy, another guy came to me and he asked me if I would sponsor him and he was on antidepressants and he'd been put on him in a treatment center. I asked him. I said, do you really, do you feel, and does your doctor feel that you really need these?

I mean, do you have mental health issues or are you just doing it because when you quit drinking, you don't feel good?

And he said, oh, no, no, I really need these. And then I said, well, I don't know, you know, I don't have any experience. I don't know how to take a person through the steps on antidepressants. I've tried a couple times and I'm not qualified. I, I think you need to find someone a, a, that actually has successful experience taking someone through the steps on antidepressants. And I said, why don't you go around and ask all the old timers that you find in meetings if they have any successful experience. And when you find

that has some successful experience taking someone through the steps successfully on antidepressants, then he'll be your guy.

Well, three months later it comes back to me and he says there isn't anybody.

And I said really, he said every person I've asked said they've tried and never, they never felt like they could help the guy connect. And I, I sponsor probably a dozen guys that had been on antidepressants at one time. And after talking to their doctor and and ascertaining that they they really weren't mental health cases, now we're not talking some people legitimately

our mental health cases and legitimately need medications. And this is not about that.

This is about people who just when they stop drinking, they get a little depressed. Like, is there anybody who doesn't get a little depressed when they stop drinking? Right. I mean,

matter of fact, it's the symptom it talks about in our big book on page 52. And I've said to these guys, I said, would you go to your doctor and talk Asked him if you think if he thinks it's possible for you to wean off of these slowly and you can't just stop taking them. I well, I saw a guy who he said I'm just not going to take him

and I tell you, he went. I've seen heroin addicts kicking big heroin habits, habits have a better time coming off of heroin. This guy had coming off of 10 years of Prozac

and I said, I say these people just go to your doctor and ask him if it's possible and would he help you And if with the doctor's approval, if he says yes, I think this is doable, let's try it and he weans him off of it, then I can work with him because then there's no doesn't and I don't. This is a controversial thing. One of the things I've noticed with people I've tried to work with that are on medications,

I can't reach them

the way I reach a non medicated alcoholic. It seems like there's a subtle vague Teflon coating over their spirit that I can't I just slide off of. I can't get through and I don't. That's my observation. I don't know what that's about, but I can't sponsor anyone with on medication. Not because I have a I'm not against medication, I have just never been effective and I had to humbly realize that I can't be all things to all people.

Maybe if I had a degree in pharmacology. Maybe if I was a psychiatrist,

maybe I could be qualified to do that, but I can't be everything to all people. And I the last guy I tried, I realized I was so out of my depth here. This guy was going insane and I am giving him directions that would have worked for anybody else I sponsored and they're not working for him because his problem is his medication stopped working and he needs his medication changed to something different. Now. How the heck am I going to know that,

right? I'm not a doctor,

spiritually depressed. I think that some of us are misdiagnosed. I was. I was diagnosed as clinically depressed and I wasn't really. I was spiritually depressed and they look very similar and a lot of our newcomers are being misdiagnosed. I'll tell you why, and it's obvious why I wasn't clinically depressed and I was spiritually depressed. I did everything I could to apply the treatment in my life for clinical depression

and I didn't get any better. When I applied the treatment in the 12 steps for spiritual depression, I started to get better. The best I ever got with the the clinical depression treatment was I stayed a little bit undrunk and stuck until I couldn't stay stuck no more. And that's why I know I was misdiagnosed. I don't know about anybody else, but I know that I was definitely misdiagnosed. It was the depression of the obsessive, overly self involved.

You know? I just get so fixated narcissistically on myself that I sink into these deep abysses.

And Scott had something he says. And I believe this is true. I think most people that I've experienced that are depressed when they get sober, if they would throw themselves in the steps, take a couple of commitments that IT institutions, jails or treatment centers and throw themselves obsessively into trying to help others that within two months they don't even know what a depression is anymore.

Because it pulls you out of your out of the narcissistic obsessive self involvement,

which is the spiritual, which is the spiritual depression. That's that's it.

It says Scott, you shared that you had repeated step four step had multiple step fours in your recovery is not step 10 there for us to deal with the things that we may have missed or overlooked. Interestingly enough, we're not really going to have time to cover steps 10-11 something something really brief on step 10 first first sentence about it on page 84. This thought brings us to step 10 would suggest we continue to take personal inventory, continue to write any new mistakes as we go along.

Step step 10 is about staying president in my own life moment by moment and I think that there's a slogan that applies and it's easy does it If I'm running Mach two of my hair on fire. I don't even know it when I mess up. So I have to slow it down and I can't very well promptly admitted it if at 11:00 at night I realized that I made a mistake at 7:30 this morning. So the differentiation for me between steps 10 and 11 tends about being present my own life moment by moment and as I make mistake correcting them as I can. The evening portion of step 11, which actually

in the three parts Step 11 does, but the evening portion of step 11 is a rather formal inventory with God about what went on today.

And I heartily endorse all of that. But my experience is some of these things will get through the cracks. And for me, a redo, particularly on Step 4 on an annual basis has been very healthy. The men that I sponsor are doing a four step about once a year and I see it having positive results and all I can say is the proofs in the pudding. That's how it is for me. If your sponsor believes this that you do the first nine months and stay sober in 1011 and 12.

I'm for that

arose by any other name is still a rose in inventory. Whether you call it step four or step 10 is still inventory.

This is a good one, it says. I'm so sick of making wrong judgments. I'd love to become willing to learn how to stop doing this.

Me too.

Really.

But, but you know, one of the things I've come to accept is that alcoholism, this malady of my spirit is a chronic, it's not an acute condition. It's a chronic condition, which means that there is no getting over it once and for all. There is no walking away from my ego once and for all.

There's a funny line in step 11 and it says I was sober like 18 years before it really hit me. And it says we must constantly remind ourselves we're no longer running the show. And I remember reading that I'm sober a long time thinking, well, why would they say we must constantly remind our And I'm thinking, Oh my God, because I'm constantly trying to run the show.

That's why every day I pick people apart and I try to play God and I notice how people aren't driving right. And I start critiquing the sharing in a a, A and you know how you do in your head.

It's that is my inclination to play God. That is is why I must constantly remind myself I'm no longer running the show. Because it to have alcoholism is to have an ingrained inclination and propensity to play God. It's the enemy. It's why I work these steps and go to meetings every day. It's why I have a sponsor. There is no once and for all. But if I can remember

that of myself, I am nothing that the Father doeth the world, the work. If I can remember

the truth is that I don't know if I can learn enough from all my wrong judgments over the past, how wrong I'd been about so much. And boy, do you get that in Step 4. Then maybe in today's March when I start thinking I'm I'm right about something, maybe I can stop and pause while agitated and uptight and say to myself, maybe I'm rolling. Maybe it's not really. Remember the other 5000 times you were you thought something was a certain way? Bob

wasn't? Maybe you're wrong again. Maybe. Maybe you're not seeing this whole picture.

So congratulations on being on the path. I I've had big spiritual experiences. I've had a couple of them. I've been in tears hearing myself say something to someone I sponsor that's beyond my ability. I know a lot of you know what I'm talking about, but the clearest indication that I'm on the path is when I find something else about myself that needs work. Because you see, the day before I got to recovery, there was nothing wrong with me. And if you jerks would just shape up, the world would be just fine.

And so the fact that I continue to find parts of me that need work indicates that I must be on the path. So I would say congratulations, welcome to the path. Observing that something about me needs work. That first piece never feels good, Never feels good. And yet that's one of the ways I get my assignments from God. Congratulations. Looks like me. You got an assignment. I would suggest you pray about it. And as you continue to do it, instead of beating yourself up, say, OK, Father, I see that one and I'm ready When you are make the amendment move on.

And this other one too. I love this. Continue to take personal inventory and when we were wrong probably admitted it

right. You got to get a little bit beyond that and and there's another piece here on page 85. It's easy to let up on the spiritual program of action to rest on our laurels that the laurels concept comes from ancient Greece. As probably many of you know in the athlete would win the discus or the shot put or the race and Laurel was a wreath and they would he would wear it on his head as a symbol of something that he had won. So resting our laurels indicates that our past victories.

Someone at my Home group observed that the Laurel goes on the head. If I'm resting on my laurels, guess where my head is?

Good guess, good guess. Some people say alcoholism is A2 fold disease. Some people say it's threefold disease. Discuss.

I don't mean to be flippant. And because I, I know that it's, it's spiritual and, and, and I know that it's physical and I, I would suspect that it's mental and I'm no expert, but the important thing that this thing shouts at me is that I've got it and I've got to resign from the debating society as to whether I have this thing and take my medicine. That's the bad news. The good news is the medicine is great fun.

There's AI. Get the controversial one saying that's fair.

Well, this this starts out with the quote that's not in the really a quote. It's not. It says, as it says in the big book, that Alcoholics have a tendency to get addicted to other mind moving, altering substances. I don't believe it says that.

So one of the great pieces of literature that I recommended to the people I sponsor is a pamphlet the bill Wilson wrote called Problems Other than Alcoholism. And in that that I think that that's the benchmark for our attitude towards drugs. Do you know that what there's a sentiment that is came out of treatment centers

3025, thirty years ago, that it's all one big disease?

Yeah. Well, I think that was started by a treatment center that only had one van.

And they didn't want to. They could only send you to one meeting. So it's all one big disease. But Bill Wilson in the pamphlet Problems Other than Alcoholism, warns us as old timers now, he's not talking to the newcomers. Our singleness of purpose is not meant to make people feel unwelcome. It's designed for those of us that are already here. And he warns us in that pamphlet that as members of a A, we should not do something.

And he's in the what he's warning us is something I've done out of ignorance and I wish I wouldn't have done it. He says that we should not try to make non Alcoholics into Alcoholics treatment centers do that. They say they'll say, well, just go, say you're an alcoholic. Go to the meetings. I had a guy I don't know how many years ago, 15 years ago, 12 years ago, come up to me in a detox

and wanted. He came up first. He came up and he told me

how impressed he was with what I shared, which made him instantly more intelligent than most of the other people there. And and then he asked me to sponsor him. And I knew this guy was on the right track right, right away. You know, he's stroking my ego. And because he's stroking my ego, I'm not giving him the diligence that I should. Because when I started talking to him about his drinking, he said, well, I don't drink. I said, what's your problem? He says, oh, I just have a problem with cocaine. So here, here's where I did what Bill said not to do.

I started imagining that he probably had alcoholism because I said to him, well, but if you did drink, you'd probably end up with a problem. Just you just haven't drank really enough. You probably are alcoholic, aren't you?

I never drink and he was an alcoholic and he stayed in the fellowship for several years.

When he was three years sober he was sponsoring a couple guys and he realized he was an alcoholic and he went back to drinking and he is drank successfully and normally and non alcoholically for over 10 years. I was at his wedding, he was given an expensive bottle of Dom perione and between him and his bride they drank not quite half of it and let the rest of it go flat.

That guys not alcoholic.

That's a clear case of alcohol abuse. That's alcohol abuse. That's right.

But but what? Look at the harm. What kind of harm was done to the people who he sponsored? Yeah,

and what kind of you know, and I I did that out of ignorance and ego.

I tried to make a non alcoholic into an alcoholic. And I've seen that on five occasions. People who out of a good heart and oh, let's let we'll love you and maybe you will can help you. And, and people came to AA and for a number of years and we're an alcoholic and then they were returned to drinking and they did it successfully.

We shouldn't do that. It dilutes the fellowship of Alcoholics because if you're not an alcoholic, then you don't have the spiritual malady I have and consequently you don't have to do what I do. Maybe for you,

an effective programmer, recovery is just don't drink and go to meetings kind of to fill up the social void in your life that was once filled by going to bars AATUS like this, like the sober Elks or something. You know, like a sober fraternity.

But I don't. I won't sponsor people that don't have alcoholism anymore. I learned from my mistakes. I hope

I have a slightly different perspective on that and that I won't sponsor them and I won't let them think they're a A members. I'll take absolutely anybody through these 12 steps. I had an interesting question from one of the ladies actually at a break about that. And I had a, a business, a fellow I've known in my industry for years came to me a decade ago and he said, I've watched the changes in your life and, and I clearly don't have alcoholism and I don't have drug addiction.

I really don't. But I'd like to do your 12 steps and see if I can have the kind of experience that you've had.

And I said, well, you got me for a close friend qualifies you for Al Anon Stanley. So if you'll start going to some Al Anon meetings and if you'll agree to drink 0 booze and take 0 pills and smoke zero homemade cigarettes for the time that we're going to go through these steps. Because I want your focus. Because if you can't agree to that, then there is a problem and say, Oh yeah, it's not a problem for me at all. I thought, yeah, anyway. And so I took him through the steps and I watched the lights come on in his eyes.

I've had the privilege of taking people from other fellowships through these 12 steps and, and Don, our mentor

told me to do that and he said so that they can take this clear message back to their fellowship. But the other thing I was thinking about is Bob was answering is, is what kind of an answer do I have when there's a 12 step call and we send the guy he was just talking about and another guy just like him on the 12 step call, the alcoholic they go to call on is going to die because he can't relate to the disease. He can't understand that. I think it's really important.

Did somebody get my picture of Don Prince? I really like what what Scott said. If if I had more time,

I would be willing to take non Alcoholics through the steps. I sponsor so many guys I barely have time to take them through and I, I am not going to let an alcoholic die for me to take the take that time and take a non alcoholic through the steps. I, I can't, I can't sacrifice the alcoholic for the non alcoholic. I can't do it, not with a good heart.

And Bill's story, he said Morning found me drinking both gin and said that it so he mentions it very briefly when I tell my story.

I mentioned very by the poor and where I drank my beer and bought my dope. That's all you'll hear me say about it in an AAA meeting. If I if they ever come up with a fellowship where I don't qualify and I stumble in there by mistake and they call on me, I'll introduce myself as a visitor and pass at an A a meeting. I'm an alcoholic and nothing else in the other fellowships I qualify for out of respect for their traditions. I am whatever they are and nothing else. I think it's really important,

says I'm trying. Are you ever touched to tears by people, parentheses like yourselves,

who share on the recovery process? I have been a number of times today, and I am frequently. I rarely attend my Home group without crying. Someone says something beautiful and touches me and I weep and I'm very proud of my tears, for I am real today. It's a big deal for me.

This is an interesting I was, I was just doing a workshop. My sponsor is a gentleman named Clancy. My spiritual advisor is a guy named Tom. And I was just doing a question and answer with Clancy and he got this exact same question. It was one of the best answers I'd ever heard. It says, do you believe men for sponsorship? Do you believe men should sponsor men and women should sponsor women? And he said exactly what I've always felt. He said absolutely

men should always sponsor men and women should always sponsor women. And then he went on to explain

that of the 350 or 400 people he sponsors, he sponsors probably 50 women.

And then he explained why. He said these are women who are sober over 30 years in Alcoholics Anonymous, and they were dying for a lack of sponsorship because they lived in communities where there wasn't a woman sober longer than they were who was active in Alcoholics Anonymous. And he said under those conditions and only those conditions where there's no one else, he will do it.

But that's the only reason. He said in a perfect world, men should only sponsor men and women should only sponsor women.

And I think that's right. And, you know, Scott says something about

the danger, talks about the DC, he's never seen an ugly woman since he was 12 years old. So it's not, it's not a good thing to sponsor a woman. And that's, and there's, there's a lot of truth to that. And also women will can manipulate men in a way that they can't manipulate women. I've watched it. I've watched, you know, it's and women sponsor women differently than men sponsor men. I don't understand what women do. I there's things they do that doesn't make any sense

and I'll give you a quick example. There's a guy in my group named Butch,

sober about nine years, and he was married to a gal, Sandy. I think Dave might remember. This is the funniest thing I've heard. And Sandy was 16 years sober, his wife. And Butch is in a bad spot one day and can't get a hold of his sponsor. So he thought to himself, I'll ask Sandy, she's sober a long time, what I should do, and she'll give me some direction. And then he says, you know, I followed her direction. I got back from the mall. I had new shoes and a new belt and I still didn't feel any better.

I I don't know what anybody else should do. My third spot, my 4th sponsor very successfully sponsored some women. My second sponsor I dropped because I found out that it was about eight years he was sleeping with new women and he was married and I judged him. I'll admit that. But I've seen some ugly things. I've also seen it work for me personally. I don't sponsor women and I don't have women to sponsor me because like Buck said, I haven't seen an unattractive females. It's a summer, I turn 12 years old.

Y'all look great to me and and I can't afford to get confused And, and by the by the same note, I know a homosexual guy that sponsors the lesbian and that that works out pretty good because that's the principle that underlies is to take the sexual component out of it. So I I think there are a lot of right answers, but for me it's pretty clear. We've got the same question asked on two sheets of paper. 33 OK, it says what do you look for when asking for someone to sponsor you? This one says what qualities or principles are required

necessary for sponsorship. I share my experience with you. When my sponsor died, I had 11 years and,

and he was on his deathbed and I wasn't even thinking about looking for a sponsor. And, and he'd gone home to die and we all knew it. And I just couldn't even imagine the world without him. And he died. And for two weeks I tried to replace him and finally realized that it wasn't possible to replace a man like this, that I didn't need someone to replace Don Roy. I needed a sponsor. And I didn't know what I was looking for. And he was my fifth sponsor and I was, and they were the five finest sponsors any man ever had. I've been the victim of great sponsorship.

And so I inventoried those five men. They were very different as individuals and yet they had common characteristics. And I asked myself what were their common characteristics and and here are the answers. They were sober men

who had done the 12 steps at my Home group. They say you can't anymore give away something you haven't got. Then you can come back from somewhere you ain't been.

There's got to be somebody who's done the steps. Who? Who has a sponsor himself. I hope that means he surrendered. I know it that it means that the day I can bring him a question he can't answer, we have a plan. I happen to know his sponsor as a sponsor. We have a great plan. It has to be a man who will tell me the truth. I don't want to hear

who does not care what I think about him. I got a phone call seven years ago from a guy used to drink with. He said I'm in treatment, I'm serious about staying sober. Would you sponsor me? And I said, yes, I will. And we're not friends starting right now because I'm going to make suggestions and you're going to take them as orders or this isn't going to work. It's working good. It has to be someone who's active in service. It's popular in the States to say attitude of gratitude. My sponsor said the only thing attitude and gratitude have in common is that they rhyme.

That that added that that gratitude is not an attitude, it's an action.

Gratitude is take a meeting into a jail of prison and insane asylum, a treatment facility, a hospital room.

It's setting up the chairs in this place are taking them back down. It's making this whole thing happen. It's showing up at your Home group and making coffee and standing in the door and capturing newcomers and giving them sponsors and serving. Your group is GSR. It's doing something to go. All of the winners in my eyes are doing something. They're going out of their way to try to help somebody else get this thing

that there's there's nothing like it. And the the 6th 1:00, I'm going to play with you page 132

in the dead center of the page. That would be 17 lines from the top and bottom and two words in from both margins,

it says. We absolutely insist on enjoying life.

I've got to have a sponsor that's having fun. I want to sponsor that laughs a lot. I want to sponsor when thirty people are in the room and somebody says something, three people grin. He's one of them, right? But what did you drink all that stuff for? Did you want to have? Is that to have a good time? Is that why you drank? Do you still want to have a good time? Then find a sponsor that's having a good time.

Why people get a sour puss sponsor? That has never made any sense to me. I don't get it. I do not get it. I want to have a ball. Don't you find a sponsor that's have in the states? They like to say find a sponsor that has what you want. How about this one? Find a sponsor has what he wants.

Yeah, it's a slightly different perspective. Anyway. So I looked around and there stood Ice Cream Steve, I love the names. And I said, would you sponsor me? And he said no.

And by the way, I sponsor today a man that has more time than I do. I've done that on several occasions very successfully. We maybe talk about that, but I said we just sponsor me. He said no. And he said, OK, I'll pray about it. Call me tomorrow. So I called the next day and he said, I'll sponsor you. And I said, give me my marching orders. And he said, all right, I want you to. I want you in so many jails a month, so many treatment centers. I want you in so many meetings, want you to open and close your days. Following the directions on pages 86 and 87, he laid some things out.

One of the things he gave me to do was the exact opposite of what my former sponsor had me doing.

I didn't even tell him. I just started doing it that way.

About a year later, I spoke at a conference and I mentioned that at my talk and it was recorded. And he he came up with a recording and he listened to it and he called me and he said I've got you doing something that's exact opposite what Don Roy had you doing. I said that's correct. And he didn't ask me what it was and I didn't tell him. And I'm not telling you

because that's not the point. The point is I don't argue with my sponsor. He says that I do it. I told him. I said don't give me 150 hope and I'll do 100. Give me 150. I'll do 200

because that's what I do. I'll surrender to you. So I need someone who has those characteristics. It's a sober man who's done the steps, who has a sponsor who will tell me the truth. I don't want to hear who is active in service work, who laughs a lot. And that's what I have today. I have a sponsor with those characteristics because I didn't need to sponsor I'd relate to. I need a sponsor I would obey. Who would I obey? Someone who has those characteristics.

I don't have any more questions. This is a little bit on 1011. You want to do a little on 1011? Yeah, I, I feel pretty good about 10 already. And we're 10 on time. Why don't we go ahead and lean on 11

Step 11, one of the most confusing steps to me in all of Alcoholics Anonymous.

If you turn to the section on step 11, it's on the bottom of page 85

and a couple things that were confusing to me. In the bottom of page 85 in italics, the 2nd to last line, it says step 11. So that kind of gives you the hint that we're going into the section on step 11 and it says step 11 suggests prayer meditation. We shouldn't be shy on this matter of prayer. Better men than we are using it constantly. It works if we have the proper attitude and work at it. It would be easy to be vague about this matter, yet we believe we can make some definite and

suggestions. OK, I'm strapped in. I'm ready for some definite, valuable suggestions about step 11, about prayer meditation. And here's what it says. When we retire at night, we constructively review our day where we resentful, selfish, dishonest or afraid dwell an apology. I'm reading this and I'm thinking, wait a minute, that has nothing to do with prayer meditation. That's like inventory. This must be a misprint. This should

been back on the other page and I don't get it. And I read further on down the page and I don't see anything that looks like meditation. I see a couple prayers like on the second paragraph it says we, we unawakening. Let us think about the 24 hours ahead. We consider our plans for the day. And here's a prayer we ask God to direct our thinking, especially asking it be divorced from self pity, dishonest, self seeking motives. OK, there's several other prayers on those two pages,

but I don't see anything that looks like meditation to me.

So one of my problems

is that sometimes I know so many things that aren't true that there's no room to learn anything new.

And I have these preconceived notions of what it is. And so I never do it. I throw the baby out with the bathwater And I because I knew about meditation, my God, I was a child of the 70s. I chanted a nominee Yoho Iringe kill with the Buddhist. I had a Transcendental Meditation mantra at one time. I've done yoga, I've done visual imagery. I know about meditation. This is not meditation.

So I never did it.

I don't follow directions. Well, even to this day, if I go to a store and buy something that has to be assembled, the first thing I usually do is lose the directions. You know, because I know because smart guys don't need directions, right? And I did that with this. And So what I did is what I did with a lot of people did I? I start, I tried this prayer, Saint Francis in the 12 by 12. Very good prayer.

I tried a couple other prayers and visualizations. One of the ones I used for years was I am the Place

and it's a very simple meditation. It's I am the place where God shines through him and I are one, not two. I need not worry Freder plan. He wants me where and as I am, and if I be relaxed and free, he'll carry out his plan through me. I did that for years, every day. I, I, I, I read, you know, little those little books, the 24 I did all that stuff. I I did,

I did the the breathing exercises I did. I went back to SGI, enchanted again with the Buddhist. I tried all that and it's all good. It's all good. There's nothing wrong with any of it

says on the bottom of page 87 it says be quick to see where religious people are right. It's all good in addition to but not in substitution for And you see, I never followed the directions on 86 and 87 until I was sober a long time. I was sponsoring a guy who was sober a long time and he came to me and he said I need some definite direction on step 11.

So I don't know what to tell him because by this time I've tried so many things.

I don't know the definitive thing to tell him because it's all kind of good, but nothing really rings the bell completely. You know what I'm saying?

So what I said to him, just I just didn't really want to talk about it because I didn't know. So I just said, well, why don't you just do what it says in the book? Well, that son of a gun started doing what it says in the book. He started doing exactly what it talks about on page 86 and 87. And in no time at all, he's doing better than me, which I do not like that That's AII really, really don't. He's getting more stable emotionally and more emotionally balanced and he's he's more.

And he's more useful and it's and so I thought, well, maybe I ought to try that. And I started doing it. And about that time I discovered a passage in the 12 by 12 and step 11 where they say something very interesting. They say that self examination, prayer and meditation when taken separately. And that's what I was trying to do, as if they were separate deals. When taken separately, the 12 by 12 says

bring much benefit and relief. But when they're logically related and interwoven, they create an unshakable foundation for life. And that's why

self examination is part of the of step 11. It's supposed to be because what I'm doing in this process is a little bit different than what I thought meditation should be. Right after this, this guy that I sponsored found a dictionary from 1913.

Now 1913 would be about the time Bill Wilson's forming his language skills and we looked up the definition of the word meditation. And to my astonishment, I realized that the word for meditation in the English language, the definition changed in the 1960s with The Beatles and the and the introduction of the Maharishi