Bill C. from Torrance, CA, Jay S. from Redondo Beach, CA and Matthew M. from Long Beach, CA answering questions at the Men Among Men Conference in Reykjavik, Iceland

Good morning. My name is Bill, and I'm an alcoholic. This morning, what we thought we'd do is, where we left off at the last workshop, we were talking about how to do it. And, the 3 of us got together and kind of felt that there was more that we'd like to say about that. This session is really about supposed to be about the results of sponsoring and working with other.

What are the benefits that we derive from that? What kind of results do we get from it on a personal level? And I think you can hear a lot about that in each one of our personal stories. Our thrust is that when you work with others, especially, on an in-depth level, that you exercise the intimacy muscle, that you learn how to be close, you learn how to open your heart, You learn how to be forgiving and compassionate and understanding, and yet firm and focused and become your own person and not have to give yourself away in order to get something in return. All of those things.

All of those things that each one of us on an individual level struggle with at one level or another. And in our personal stories, I think you can hear that. So what we'd like to do is spend a little bit of time upfront today in this session, talking more about how we our personal experience with working with others. And then what we're gonna do is we're gonna go into, a description of a group inventory. Our home group had an explosion a while ago, and we ended up going through the process of doing an inventory.

And this all pertains to unity, where the recovery of the individual is dependent upon a direct correlation with the unity of the group, the oneness of all of us. And that is another process of getting out of ourselves and into others, identifying with the group on a higher level than self identification. So we're gonna try and do that this morning. We're gonna kinda try to stuff a lot in there. To start off with, I've had a lot of personal experience of of working with men.

And, I've had some grand adventures, and I've had some heart wrenching experiences with them, plus and minus. But one thing that's never happened to me, no one has ever thrown the big book at me, but it has happened to Matthew. My name is Matthew. I'm an alcoholic. Good morning.

Good morning. One of the great benefits for me when I came into Alcoholics Anonymous and I met these men is that they gave me simple things to go by. And one of them was you never say no to anyone. We don't pick and choose who we sponsor. And that's easy because when I want to say no, all I have to do is go, what's the rule of, yeah, I don't say no?

So I sponsor, I have had the experience of sponsoring a lot of men. I'll tell you quickly how I got a big book thrown at me. There was this guy I was sponsoring named Jason. He was a likable guy, but he had a lot of anger. And we would, get together, and he he wanted me to sponsor him and I'd read the book with him, but he never did anything.

He never did any steps. He he balked and balked and balked, and he put me off. And so one day we were meeting in Santa Monica, California. There's a place where there's a a cliff, an overhang, and it's a beautiful park. And you can sit on the benches there.

And we have a meeting there at lunchtime. So I think I got there around 11 to read the book with him. And we were walking to the park from his business and we had our big books in our hands and he said, I don't understand it. I'm not drinking and I'm going to meetings, but my life isn't changing. And I was walking a few feet ahead of him and I said, well, I understand it.

You do nothing that I tell you to do. You've done haven't done a single step in the book. You don't do the steps of Alcoholics Anonymous. Of course, your life isn't changing. And as I turned around to see what his reaction was, I saw this big book going And, I ducked.

And it went over over Well, not over my head. It it would have hit me right in the face, but it went over the cliff, and landed on Pacific Coast Highway. And we were joking this morning, you know, there's probably some rich guy driving by in his convertible thinking I should get sober and the big book fell out of the thing. Now, my response to Jason when he did that to me is probably not the the great example of love and compassion. I basically said this to him.

And, for the tape, it's a universal symbol of love. And, and I and I walked away from him. I mean, I don't think I need to put up with actual physical abuse, you know. And I I walked away and I went around the block to our meeting and he came around the block the other way and he saw me in the doorway and he said no one has ever loved me like you love me. I'm so sorry.

And he hugged me and he was crying. And and I was like, shit. I have to keep sponsoring this guy. And I was feeling some freedom before that. And I'd called Bill, and Bill said, you do not Bill first of all said, you have now entered the AA Hall of Fame.

You've had someone throw a big book at you. And but then he also said, you don't have to put up with that. And, Jason, eventually did work the steps with someone else, and I never fired him. I stayed with him. But the what we wanna convey, and what I'd like to convey with my 10 minutes about how, and a little bit of the results for me is that the, there's an example I'd like to give that happened to me early in sobriety when I was, I think, in my first 100 days.

And I used to go to this men's stag meeting at noon, and there was a guy we sit in a circle, and the guy would we'd share each person's shares. There was a guy sitting next to me, an older guy I'd never seen before. And it was coming to me, and I shared. And I shared about the awkwardness I was feeling being newly sober, you know. People weren't celebrating my driver's license and people, you know, I felt lonely and I felt alienated.

And I didn't, I just felt a little bit adrift. And I was feeling a little bit of sorry for myself. And then it got to be his said, you know, that's real stuff you're going through. That's tough. That's real stuff.

That's part of the recovery process, and we know that it's pain. And please stay here, and please stay close with us because that will pass. And I felt a real compassion and a real openness from him and a real love from him. And then he shared that they were about to amputate his leg. And then he shared that they were about to amputate his leg.

And then he shared that they were about to amputate his leg. And then he leg. And then he shared that they were about to amputate his leg. And I thought it was very clear to me that he had a spiritual center, and he had a maturity that I was wanting. He put me first.

He talked to me. He he calm me down. He was about to get his leg cut off, and he took a minute with me and said, that's real stuff. Don't worry. We know what you're going through.

We'll help you. And I and I that generosity of spirit is the only way for me to get that. If self centeredness and selfishness is the root of my problem, and take my word for it, it is, is for me to put myself out there and gets it's sort of like those those rock polishing kits when you're a kid. They're you they just have to be rubbed and rubbed and rubbed and rubbed and rubbed until they smooth out. And I go to many lengths to sponsor people.

So I I I'd like to keep this concrete. And what I learned from the men who sponsored me is you read the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous starting with the doctor's opinion which used to be page 1. And just to to throw a little bit of gasoline on this fire about whether sponsorship is mentioned in the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous. On the first page of the doctor's opinion, the doctor says this man impressed upon me the need for people to continue to reach out to other people and to pass this along. Sponsorship is mentioned on the first page of the big book and throughout the big book.

It's called working with others. And it's often mentioned in right alongside the spiritual awakening. So I have this experience of reading the book with men because that's how what I knew. I I I'd always get a little bit afraid, you know. There's that that thing, I'm gonna save them or I'm gonna give them my wisdom.

It's not about me at all. It's not about me at all. My job is to sit and listen and read the book and tell them my experience with the steps and pass them along to someone who might have some experience that I don't have. And I'll I'll talk about that. But some of the places this has taken me is I sponsored this guy named Sean.

And, I didn't originally sponsor him. He was in and out of the program. He'd been in and out of prison. He was a colorful guy. Like, he liked to rob banks.

And he'd spent some time in prison but he was being sponsored by someone. But I like this guy. He's a very charismatic person and he's a very good musician and I'm a musician. So there was a lot of attraction And he was sitting in his car outside of a meeting one day, and he motioned for me to get into his car. And I as for all I knew, he was working the steps.

For all I knew, that's what he was doing with his sponsor. And, I got in the car, and it was full of smoke, marijuana smoke, which is hard to ignore out in front of an AA meeting. And I said to him, I'm sorry I should stand up out of respect for you. But I said to him, why, I go, Sean, when you did your 5th step, did you tell the whole truth? Did you keep anything back?

Do you have some secrets? And he looked at me and goes, How did you know? Like, I was psychic. And and I said, I just a hunch, you know. But he not that day, but very soon after that, he asked me to sponsor him.

Then he called me. I got a one of those collect calls from jail. This is a call from the Wyoming jail and, you know, will you accept the charges? And Sean had this grand idea that he was gonna get sober, but he didn't wanna go to sober living. So he was gonna sell a £180 a pot and then get an apartment and then get sober.

And the the reason I tell you this long story is that when he got out on bail and was able to come back to California before he went to trial and he was afraid. He'd been to prison. He didn't wanna go back. He was scared to death. And we did the steps together.

We read the book, a simple thing. We went from the doctor's opinion through the steps. We knelt on the ground and we did the 3rd step together. And then when it got to the 5th step, he came to my to my office. And I used to have an office near the airport, and he walked in and he was smoking a cigarette and there's very big sign in my office is no smoking and I just ignored it because he was so nervous about this 5th step.

And while he was smoking that cigarette, he lit a second cigarette. So he had 2 going in my no smoking office, but he was in so much pain and so scared that I didn't dare say anything to him. And he did this misstep and he told me everything as far as I can tell. And and at the end of it, there I had an intuitive thought. I and I think sometimes the intuitive thought is God helping us sponsor these men.

And he had told me where he'd gone in life, and it was pretty horrible. And I said and I've never said this to anyone before and I don't know why I said it, but I said, do you think that you're incapable of being loved by God because of that? And I can tell you that that's not true. That God I love you and God can it loves you wholeheartedly. And I don't know where that came from.

And Sean has not had a drink since. And that had nothing to do with me. Nothing to do with me. Absolute anyone it would God would have put those words in anyone's mouth. And we we the where that took me was I went to court with Sean.

I went to Green River, Wyoming, and it would be a great, you know, Quentin Tarantino movie for me to tell you about that. But, we did kneel on the steps. We were walking up the stairs to the courthouse and I said, said, here's where we kneel and do the 3rd step prayer. And Sean is a very cool cat, and, this wasn't his idea of sponsorship. And, we knelt on we knelt on the ground, and we we did the 3rd step prayer.

And then we went inside, and the judge talked to Sean for a while. This was a preliminary hearing. And then he said, who are you? And I said, I'm his sponsor, an Alcoholics Anonymous. And he said, is Sean gonna drink again?

And I said, I don't know. And he looked a little puzzled, and I said, is he gonna get in trouble with drugs? I said, I don't know. I don't know if I am. I said, but when he's sober, he's a good man.

And, we spent some time there and we went back to our hotel room and waited nervously for the call and the and the the sentence went from 10 to 15 years to 2 to 5 years from us going there and talking to him. And Sean got out in a year because he started Alcoholics Anonymous in that prison. And he did what it took to be a sober man in prison. And the point of this story is I did not want to go to Green River, Wyoming. It's 16 below 0 there.

Sean's not that great a company when he's about to go to court. It wasn't it wasn't a pleasure trip. And, but the men in Alcoholics Anonymous love me without boundaries. Now, there's a fine line, and I and I want to be really, really clear about this. There is one program.

Bill said it last night. There's one program. There are 12 steps. They are necessary steps, I believe, for a spiritual awakening. But and there's a rigidity about that.

There's a a rightness and a there's a right way and a wrong way to do the steps. But that doesn't mean that all I can talk to you about is the big book. That doesn't mean that all we have to do is say, well, if we're not talking about the steps I'm gonna hang up on you. Certainly, you need to bring it back to that. Certainly, you I need to say what I have to offer is the program.

But the what step is it when you go to Green River, Wyoming? It's step 12. What step is it when you duck the big book and then find out you're still sponsoring the guy because he's melting in your arms? It's step 12. If you're gonna carry a message about a spiritual awakening, you have to demonstrate that you're awake spiritually.

Mind boggling. But, and the people that have and and and the other fine line that I will tell you is that, it I I used to think these guys had to like me, you know? And they don't have to like you. We were talking about it this morning. There's another very simple rule.

Care more about their lives, saving their lives, and about hurting their feelings. Because some of the people that have really really helped me have embarrassed me. They've called me on my b s. They don't cosign my bullshit. They tell me, you know, you're not doing the right thing.

And they're my true friends. They're my true friends. But there is I will point out to this. We often talk about and then he thumped me on the chest and said this, I have read The Big Door. There is no chapter that says, then thump them on the chest vigorously.

It says over and over, love, love, love, love, love and tolerance. And there's there you have to from my my personal experience, from my health and and Alcoholics Anonymous, and the best I've done with sponsorship is that I have accompanied the program of Alcoholics Anonymous with a love and compassion. The kind of love and compassion that was shown to me when a man turned to me and said, that's real stuff you're going through. Don't worry. We're gonna hang in there with you.

And he was about to have his leg amputated. That's love. That's compassion. Just a real quickly about the results. If you were here on Friday night, you know, that in my you know, I I happen to be one of the lucky men in the world who met the woman of their dreams in sobriety.

She's not an alcoholic. She's not sober. She puts up with us, but she's not one of us. And, she had a stroke. And when that happened, I was I was really quite, surprised and taken aback and terrified and really got me down into whether I had anything at all to to go by, to live by.

And it was about, I don't know, like 5 or 6 in the morning. It was very early in the morning. I'd been in the hospital all night with her the night it happened and I called my sponsor. And the first thing he said which was a very good thing was the people say there are no big deals in Alcoholics Anonymous. Said that's not true.

This is a big deal. And And that was good. I needed someone to tell me because I was I mean, I knew it was a big deal, but I didn't wanna feel like an idiot for thinking, oh, I'm not spiritual enough because I'm not calm in this situation. You know? And, he's he helped me with that, and he's and then he said, I want you to call Jay him.

And I go, I don't wanna call Jay, I wanna talk to you. And he said, no, I want you to hang up and call Jay. And I'm like, what kind of b s is this man? I call my sponsor. I need my sponsor.

He goes, just hang up and call Jay. So I hang up and I called Jay, And Jay and Adele are both awake, or I woke them. And he said, listen to me and he said, you know, the Dell has had some several strokes. And suddenly I had experience on the other end of the phone. It was what I needed.

Exactly what I needed. And he talked to me about it. And then Adele talked to me about it, about what my wife was going through, which was important experience. And then Jay got on the phone and he said something that really was the guiding light for me in this experience is he said, well, Matthew, you you've always wanted to be the world's greatest lover. Now God has given you your chance.

And I went back into that room and I knew what to do. And I knew it wasn't about me. It was about her. It's about how I could serve her. And I wanna just give you the epilogue to that.

So we bravely decided this stroke wasn't gonna change our lives. And, in fact, what I have to give kudos to my wife when they wheeled her out of the hospital after 5 weeks in the hospital in a wheelchair, and it looked really bad for her prognosis. She said, okay. This is the moment this stroke stops becoming the center of our lives. Our lives is the center of our lives.

Our children. So we got home, and I was pretending that I was super sober man. And I actually fell asleep. And when I had a 1 year old baby, and a 3 year old baby, and a 7 year old baby. And, my wife was paralyzed, and I had a new job, and I sponsored a bunch of guys.

No problem. And I I remember once falling asleep, standing up, vacuuming. I woke up and I was standing leaning against the wall. And my solution was, I no longer need a vacuum. And, because obviously, it puts me to sleep.

So, so several months into this, I was driving on the 7 10 freeway, which means nothing to you. But I was driving on this freeway, and I was like, they're gonna fire me from my job. I know it. I know they're gonna figure out that I'm spread too thin. And my wife really is gonna wake up screaming and go, why did I marry this guy?

And she's gonna get in her wheelchair and get the hell out. My kids are gonna jump up and go, you're a shitty father. Don't you know that? And they're gonna leave, and and I'm gonna be broke and have no house. And this is within, you know, a minute and a half on the 7 10 freeway.

And I called Jay. I didn't make the mistake of calling him. And I called Jay, and I said, my wife is gonna leave me, and I'm a terrible employee, and my kids know I'm a shitty father, and I'm gonna pretty soon I'm gonna be homeless. And, he listened very carefully, and he said really beautiful. He was calm and quiet on the other end of the phone.

He said, let's pretend for just a minute that you're in a let's pretend for just a minute that you're not in charge. And I started laughing like you're laughing. And I said, Thanks for letting me share. I think Matthew is still the best sponsor in AA, don't you? I don't think we'll be willing.

No. We were talking about this earlier, and we couldn't find anybody to replace you as best sponsor in AA. He really he really cares about it, man. He put his house up for Sean, and he did. You sign I would have never done that.

This guy Sean robbed 35 banks in the San Fernando Valley, And he told me one time, he says, you know what my mistake was? I said, no. What? He goes, 35. I should've stuck with 34.

He's wacko. He's wacko. Still. He's still. He's whacked.

Just a whack. I used to stand up at podiums of in in AA, speaking, and say that if you were on medication, you weren't sober. And the reason I said that is because I heard some of you say that. I heard people in AA say that, and I wanted to be a right wing badass desk squad AA dude, you know, and it seemed like a real badass, hardass opinion to have, and there's a certain amount of truth to it. And I had absolutely no experience with it, but I really liked the opinion.

And, so I would go around and say that. And then one day, a guy came up to me and he asked me to sponsor him, and he says, I think I should tell you that I'm bipolar and I'm on medication. And I went, oh, shit. 1 of these losers, you know? And, but I've been raised where you never say no.

You don't get to say no. You just say yes. Now, if you wanna hang on to prejudice, you have to keep it across the room. You can't let it get too close. If you let it get too close, you realize that there's part of you that's like that, and then it's really difficult to hang on to the prejudice or the opinion or or whatever it might be.

You gotta keep it over there where you can continue to judge it from afar. So I told this guy, I said, okay. I, you know, I'll work with you, and I figured maybe I could talk him out of taking the medication or something. You know, I had I was brilliant. And, so time went on, and I began to read the book with this guy.

And I had the experience, I watched his highs and lows. One time, he called Karen and I were at home. We had another AA couple over at the house. We were having dinner, and and this guy called up, and he was just panicked. He was he was enraged.

He was flipping out, and he was crying. And and I asked I said, can you get over here? Can you come over here? And he goes, okay. I'll try.

And I hung up the phone and I thought, you know, I mean, he sounded so bad, I I second guessed myself, and I said, man, I should have maybe driven over there to get him. I didn't know that he was even safe on the street. I've actually had conversations with this guy where I've told him, I said, on the phone, and I've said to him, pull the car over. Stop literally, stop the car. Stop driving.

You know? And he would go, okay. And then and I and he'd pull over and stop, and then we would continue the conversation as he's on the side of the freeway. This guy is just wacko. And, so he he makes it over to the house that night.

He comes walking in the front door. He sees me across the room, and he comes walking across the living room, and he he's a 40 year old man, curled up in my lap and stuck his head in my neck and just cried like a little baby. And I just stood there and held him. The couple that was at the house said, well, we think we'll leave now. And, Karen walked across the living room, looked at us, went, woah.

Woah. You know, it's like and I just sat there, you know, and just held him and talked him down. You know, I mean, it's like, what do you say? A lot of times a lot of times, there's nothing to say. Mhmm.

A lot of times, A lot of times, there's nothing to say. He just needed to be in a place where he felt safe. Experience with this man of peeling him off the ceiling and lifting him up off the floor. Now, when I see him coming, I look at him and I go, have you taken medication? Because you're sick, man.

You know? And and what I learned is I I had an opinion, then I had an experience, and it changed my opinion. People have demons I don't have. It's as simple as that. How do you learn that?

How do you learn that people are different? It's all well and good to take a rigid line about certain things. When you're dealing with people, it's really hard to maintain that rigidity. They're just different. They have different issues and different problems.

Myself, personally, I find these differences absolutely fascinating. I mean, at this point at this point in my at my age, I'm almost 60 years old, I'm 22 years sober, I find myself pretty boring. I mean, I'm I'm done with the search for self. I've I've been relieved of that. Thank God, because it just doesn't go anywhere.

It's a never ending, dull and boring process, you know. You, on the other hand, are a never ending font of weirdness, you know, I mean, it just goes on and on, you know? You bring things to my attention that I would have never considered. You know? I mean, I had no idea.

You know? It's like you hear people say, you know, I've heard a lot of 5th steps, you know, and they're all the same, and then I share some of my stuff. I've heard some shit that shocked the hell out of me. I'd look at people, and I go, well, how many of them were there? You know?

Really? You know? I mean, I'm I'm impressed. You know? I told 1 guy, I said, you never have to go out there again.

You've done it all. I I don't think there's anything left. You know? Jeez. You know?

I mean, and I love it. You know? I'm I'm not as shocked by it as I am just fascinated. You know? It's like it's like, you know?

It's it's stunning. So so my experience of working with people is, if you if you and I wanna keep this thing fresh, that's what we'll do. That's what keeps it fresh. What expands my heart is working with you. Now I've had some experiences with people.

I've had a couple of guys that I've sponsored over the years that I really did not like. I had one guy that I I just didn't like him. Every time he came around, I just felt slimy. You know? I just guy was a creep.

You know? It's just some people are just creepy. You know. And those creepy people, I think that there's a rule, you know, that you don't have to deal with creepy people, you know. And, and what I come to find out with this guy is that he touched the creepy part in me.

You know? Because I'm a creep. You know? And, and he he had that aspect of his nature. Well, he he would come he'd come around come around, and we're reading the book together, and and he's not really doing much, but he's doing enough to to keep the ball rolling, you know.

And finally, one night and he used to tell me that he was considering suicide, you know, that he would he would call me up on a fairly regular basis and talk about that he was suicidal, and this girl had left him, and he was really suicidal. So I described to him how to do it correctly, that if he was gonna do it, you know, because we really didn't wanna have to visit him in the hospital. You know? And I said, no, what you do is you walk out into the ocean about waist deep, and you put a 45 slug through your head, And if you miss a little bit, you'll fall into the water and drown because you you wanna be sure that you do it, you know. And Jay just reminded me as a The other thing, this guy, this guy was staying in the apartment over my office in Bill's halfway house, and, we've had some remarkable characters in this place.

And when this girl left him, he started doing satanic rituals. He had, like, a pentacle on the floor, and there were candles burning and stuff. Now, my office is right below it, so, you know, I can hear weird sounds and strange smells. And I walked up there one day, and he's in there, you know, and there's no windows in this place. It's really pretty creepy for and the creep was staying in the creepy place, and and and here's the pentacle of the candles.

And I walked in there, I looked at him, I said, you gotta cut this out. There's no devil worship here. You know? It's like, you know, you know, I I wasn't very understanding. And, but anyway, one night, this guy called me, and, and he was really down.

And he was at a meeting, at a place called Clark Stadium, and he said, I I really need to talk. So I, you know, I didn't I didn't wanna go. I didn't I didn't like the guy. I didn't really wanna, you know, and and sometimes I'm touched with how little compassion I have. You know, a lot of times I think I'm very compassionate You know, when I when I get that don't care feeling, I don't like that.

You know, when I when I get that don't care feeling. I don't like that. So I got in my car and I drove down there. And I'll never forget that he was sitting up on the stoop of this front step of this place, and I was standing down on the grass. So I was kinda looking up at him.

And he was sitting up there, and he started talking to me about how he felt about himself, And just how what a loser he felt that he was, and how sad he was. And I connected with him. I finally I'd been working with this guy for a couple of years, and I finally connected with him. He finally I felt him in me. What it is.

But it seems to me that I can feel your emotional state. And when I make that connection, everything changes. You know, it didn't make him any less of a creep. I just got more in touch with my creepness. You know?

And then I was yeah. My inner creepness. Yeah. That's that's what it is, you know. And, the creep within, you know, it's like, this is a new workshop.

Yeah. The creep workshop. So We've gotta dance. So the next day, he comes over to my house. We had a long talk in into the night that night.

And, the next day, he comes over to my house, and I'm working in the garage. And he looks at me, and he goes, what do you want me to do? And I said, well, why don't you go make amends to your sister? And I kinda turned away and I turned around and he was gone. And he got in his car and he left.

About an hour and a half later, he came back and he goes, what do you want me to do now? And it like he just like he had he had nowhere to go, nothing to do. And he made his amends and we moved on, you know. So the experience the only way that I gain this experience is what what he has taught me. And I've watched him go through it, and I and I watch Matthew go through it.

And anybody that really gets involved in is you get into situations that you don't understand. You don't know what to do. You don't know what to say. That's when we're growing. That's when it happens.

If I don't put any parameters on this, you will take me into places that I really don't want to go. Places I don't want to go. Places I'm not comfortable with, that I'm not in charge of, I'm not in control of. And you will take me there. And when I go there, when I come out of that experience, I'm a bit of a deeper person.

I have a more of a depth of understanding. I'm closer to you than I was before. And the next person that comes around, that comes within my sphere of influence, will reap the benefit of that experience that I've gained from you. And and that's how we pass it on. So if there's anything I can say about this that that hopefully you can take away with you, a.

There is nothing else to do. Ask themselves, why was I saved? Some point. Why am I here? Why am I why am I sober, and I watch these other people that are equally as deserving, and for some reason, they don't get the sobriety?

What what's going on here? I think the answer to that is, the reason I was saved is to try to save you. That I'm the vehicle that God uses. And if there's any job I have at all, is to try to hone this instrument, To allow myself to be used. To let it happen to me.

To don't put any limitations on it or parameters or anything. To just be swept into it. And what I see in the people I work with, and what all of us have experienced is I watch people not be able to do that. They can't for whatever reason, they can't let themselves go into it. And then they wonder why they're not reaping the benefit.

Where's mine? You know? If I let you sweep me into this stream, And God's doing for me today what I couldn't do for myself. Any Sunday morning drinkers here, Isn't it nice to be drinking without the amateurs? You know?

I mean, Sunday morning drinking is serious drinking. You don't have to you don't have to apologize to anybody. You don't have to you know, it's just it's just a wonderful thing. So Tim called me, you know, we talked about sometimes it sounds like all we're doing is throwing the death card around here when we talk about, you know, the benefits of sponsorship and being there for our parents and all that kind of stuff. And and, but you also get one of the things I like to say is is that today you'll see me someplace.

And I'll be walking down the street, and I'll be looking for a cigarette that I can smoke. But today, it's not gonna be very good because it's damp out. And And I don't have enough to drink. I haven't washed in a couple of days. Oven by myself, oven by my own power, that's where I end up.

On the street alone looking for something to drink. I don't care about eating. You know, I don't care about any of that stuff. And, and then what happened is is I got I came into Alcoholics Anonymous and I had the grace to see that this was the way out for me. For me.

And so I I bought the package. I bought the whole package. And out of that has come a wealth of experiences that are beyond my wildest dreams. Who could dream of Reykjavik? I mean, really.

God must have been on some really good acid when he created Reykjavik. Yeah. And Chuck. Well, I think that was when God was shooting methamphetamine, but that's another thing entirely. I know more about Chuck than is safe to know.

But you get the calls. See, I was like a cat. When I when I drink, you know, when a a pet gets sick, how they hide. Especially a cat, they go away and hide. And that's what my alcoholism did to me.

And what what sponsorship has done is it has called me forth from the cave. You know, it's brought me out into life. And so I'm I'm sitting at home one day and I get a phone call from South Bay Hospital. Goes, it's happened. Get down here.

So I get in the car and I drive down to down to South Bay Hospital. Now at the time I was I don't know, I was 28 years old and I'd I'd never, I was 32. And I'd never been in a hospital when a baby had been born. And I wasn't there for the birth but I was invited in just afterwards. And you know the energy in that is is it's the holiest place in the world.

There is no place that's holier. And and and so I'm just I I walk in and I'm just I'm just stunned by the energy, you know. And I see his wife and the baby and all that good stuff. And they're it's all wonderful. And And, it was so wonderful that I would I kinda had to I had to I had to remove myself quickly.

And my wife, Jacqueline, and I had been trying to get pregnant at that time. And, I walked out into the into the parking lot of the hospital and I went, you know, God, I'd really, really like to have that experience. If it be your will, let me have that experience. Let Jackie and I have that experience. And that was the evening that my daughter was conceived.

So you gotta be careful. Yeah. Exactly. Like the first wife. And, Jacqueline just turned 22 years over this week.

So the thing that the other thing that Alcoholics Anonymous does is it makes us pay attention to our lives. In other words, I remembered saying the prayer when we found out when the pregnancy test worked. It was like, oh my goodness. So that's that's one of the one of the wonderful, wonderful benefits. I believe more that alcoholism is a disease today than I did when I came in, when I worked the steps, because of the 5th steps I've heard.

Now I don't get maybe the same colorful ones, but I'm well familiar with this case. And I truly believe that, that alcoholism is a disease more now than I ever did before because of all the 5 steps I've heard. And you see, because they're all the same. They I I believe they are all the same. Sam Shoemaker, Bill Wilson's, who was the Oxford group episcopal rector that that Bill Wilson went to his church when he got out of town's hospital.

It's where he went to 3 meetings a week for two and a half years. Sam Shoemaker always said that there is only one sin. Only one. There is only one mistake and that is believing that I'm different. And I think that every alcoholic in the world believes that to the core of their being.

You don't understand. I'm different. Now the thing about that is is that with, you know, at least with me and I'm a I'm a big fan of the the Oxford group line that it's men's work with men and women's work with women. You know, Bill's come with some pretty lofty arguments and really, you know, good ideas about why he should get to sponsor women, and I still am not convinced. Maybe after 70.

We'll see. Maybe. I still don't have yes. Anyway yeah. Science will one day.

Anyway, but see we all get sick in exactly the same way. In alcoholic males, we all get sick in the same way. They're real we're not that complex. There's really not that much we can do. I mean, we just can't.

Now some of us are more flamboyant than others. You know, with some, it's our daughter's piggy bank. With others, it's banks. But it's, you know, I still think that the people that rob their daughter's piggy banks suffer more than the gangsters that are that are sticking up the the banks myself. So there's just in this sponsorship thing is that I see that I am not different.

And what happens is is that each time that a man shares his innermost self with me, what happens is is that I get to take more and more responsibility for my life and who I am and what the world is around me that I see. And this is the thing that sponsorship does for the sponsor is is that what we do is we get to see and we get to remake the world within which we live. Literally. We are transformed Because when you see men go out and do these simple spiritual exercises, You know, this is not brain surgery. This is like come over here and do this.