A 12 Steps & Service Workshop in Richmond, VA

Yes. I like the the microphone here. You ready? We're getting ready to head for the home stretch. The It seems like there's one of the areas there.

But one one we want to get into and make sure we spend a little bit of time on is that that whole business of of sponsor ship. I'll kick this off and then get Don to, to to pick up. In the whole area of sponsorship, 2 things that are pretty clear that need to be talked about a little bit, and And probably more than that, but one is just that whole general thing about effective sponsorship, how we do it. And then how you start knowing when to move away, how to move away, that kind of stuff. And then the thing about the medication, which is an increasing, increasingly, troubling kind of thing in this whole business of of how we deal with people.

I think sometimes I think that depression has become an attachment to alcoholism. You know that these day and time, you almost don't have it without some depression being hooked to it. Of course, it does have a little something to do with getting insurance payment before going into treatment. But nonetheless, it is a very, very common kind of a problem to deal with. Let me just sort of make some some, general remarks to start with about sponsorship.

I believe it is a vital thing. I've never been without one except for that first little period when I came in to the program and couldn't even know how to spell it. But let's find one. And then I got one. And I've never been without one since.

And I've had 3 and still got my third one. And I'm very, very grateful. I'm a really lucky guy in a lot of ways. I don't know how you how you weigh it but I've gotta have one of the longest and strongest sponsorship lines I know anything about. I'm 45 years sober and I've got a sponsor sober longer than me and he has a sponsor longer than him.

And, that's unbelievable of having that kind of and what a great feeling to know that I got 2 old relics like that above me. And, I tell you, an interesting thing happens. You You look forward to it if you're not already there. As you get older in the program, finding sponsorship becomes more and more of a challenge. You know, like right now, as I mentioned earlier, I'm the oldest male member in North Carolina.

And, I sort of have a I sort of have a not a job description, but I kind of have a criteria for what I look for in a sponsor. This is just me. But I want to sponsor the senior than me for one thing. It's not absolutely vital but it's vital to me. I want one that's senior just because it just feels good.

Just feels right. I want one that's active in all legacies of alcoholics and others. I'm somebody who believes that you can get locked up in the steps so tightly that you get almost as isolated in recovery as you were in the in the alcoholism. And so I think you can really get into that kind of staring at your navel, checking your emotional pulse every 30 minutes. And, so so I want somebody that's active in all legacies, you know, that that certainly recovers to heart and soul.

But if I don't learn unity so that I can connect with my fellow members and with the world around me, I'm still in a heap of trouble. And then service. I believe any recovery that does not involve a healthy, vigorous service life is a recovery that's shortchanged and and misses a lot of where the real joy comes from. So I want somebody who embodies that kind of stuff in the way they function. I didn't like.

Some people say if you don't hate him, you got the wrong one. I couldn't disagree more. I've never had a sponsor that I didn't like, that I didn't like to hang out with, that I didn't respect. He used the term heroes. My sponsor has always been kind of heroes to me.

They're folk that I really look up to. And so I've sort of got that general criteria for what I'm looking for and what I've got a way and I'll give you this just sort of background so that it goes into this thing of how you function in sponsorship. If it isn't a well developed marriage, so to speak, it's not gonna have a lot of value. And And so I've got a certain thing that I work out with with I don't have much experience, but I I make this standard in in in in when I set up sponsorship with somebody, either somebody I'm sponsoring or with my sponsor. There's 3 things that I want understood with with my sponsor, and I've got it understood with the fellow who has that job today.

1, my sponsor is the only person on this planet, the only one who's invited into my life unannounced. Nobody else has that permission. But he's somebody it's his job. I've asked him to step into my life anytime about anything, absolutely no holds barred. And he's the person that I will listen to no matter what he's got to say.

I won't interrupt him. Now, I might argue with him later, but I'm gonna hear him first. And And he's the only one I've got. And And he's the only one I've got, and he's the person I'll call when the chips are down. I may talk to a 1,000 other people, but when the chips are down, there is no question where I'm going.

And so that's sort of a fix I have on a job description for a sponsor. I sometimes think that we, that we do a disservice to sponsor by making a too great expectation on what it ought to be. It sounds sometimes like we get to thinking that the sponsor ought to be a combination of Adolf Hitler and Sigmund Freud. You know, that's gotta be a real kind of rock them, sock them jump on your guy, and then have tremendous insight a fairly practical thing. It's somebody that fits that description that I trust, who is somebody I can talk with about where I'm going, to share their experience with me.

And so I don't put those kind of real, real glaring kinds of expectations on a guy. I want it to be that kind of a sound, solid, functioning relationship. The, when I set up sponsorship, and I do this with people I sponsor as well as when I sponsor, I always make it a very serious transaction. You know, I always have a private meeting, a scheduled meeting, so that we go in, usually meet for an hour, hour and a half, 2 hours, and basically, what we wanna do is solidify that relationship, agree on what it is that we're looking for, what the expectations are, you know, so that there is no surprise in how we do business. If we're gonna meet with, with regularity, like, that 6 o'clock in the morning, cruelty that he imposes on people.

Whatever it is, we make an agreement and then that's the agreement. And they become the terms under which we operate. And so I I like for sponsorship to have a real kind of a sound business like thing. You know, It's what I'm dealing with is my life. And I don't want to be frivolous and casual about something that may be my lifeline at times.

And I want it to be sound. I want it to be solid. I don't want it to be up for grabs. So the way I look at it, it's only keeping with that realistic expectations, based somewhat on that stuff I was talking about earlier when I was trying to help start AA out of town. My job as a sponsor is to help the new person that I'm working with know that there's a solution.

Clearly know that there is a solution. And just as clearly know that I'm not it. That I'm not it. And that came somewhat from watching people drop like flies when I left the town. See, I had not let them know that there was a solution.

All they knew is that I was a wonderful person, and and that's not enough. That's not enough. This illness is far too deadly for that kind of a of a little little lightweight approach. And so when I when I it sounds real simple to say that, but knowing that there's a solution doesn't mean just throwing some words at them. It means having them to have enough understanding that they know how to put that in motion.

Sometimes it takes a short time. Sometimes it takes a long time. I just say one more one more thing about this, generally, about this thing of of of discontinuing response. Sponsorship. I don't like the term fired.

That's just that's just not a good term for disrupting a spiritual relationship. It just doesn't fit. Because that's I mean, we're not employing somebody. I mean, it's just something we agree in good faith to try to carry out. And sometimes it just doesn't work.

I don't commonly make it a practice to discontinue until I'm absolutely convinced that it no longer has utility. And sometimes the kind of thing that I look at in discontinuing is I'll give you one example of a guy I had that, he's a wonderful fellow. He's sober 20 years. Well, he's dry 20 years. And he was a guy that that he was he was one of the first people that I that I stopped for therapeutic reasons.

Lack of therapy, I think, was probably I worked with this guy, and he was a he's a he's a he's a real verbal kind of guy who really believes that he can make a living doing nothing. He just thinks he can skim the world forever. And horrendous background If you ever want to do a seminar on 4th and 5th steps, I'll be glad to send him up here. That guy is absolutely fabulous and just loves to talk about his last operation. He'll beat you to death with that and loves to do 5th steps.

But when it comes to 6 and 7 where you start thinking about change, it becomes a different issue. And I worked with this dude for 9 years. And I listened to more 5th steps than I had patience to endure. And never saw one ounce of any effort at recovery, you know, at trying to do anything about it. He came to me one day, I've been beaten on you by amends.

Came to me one day and said, man, you're gonna be proud of me. I said, thank God. What happened? He said, I made some amends. Well, I knew every amend he owed from all those field steps.

I said, for God's sakes, tell me what it is. And so he told me it was about something he jumped on to college. And and so I said, well, tell me how it came about. Literally, what happened. 2 policemen armed came to his door to get the money.

And then, man, that ain't even close. You know? And and and he and he aggravated that with one thing that I try not to be a terribly arbitrary guy and to set up just harsh judgments. But there's one thing that I will not sponsor and that's somebody who jumps newcomers. I'm just not gonna do it.

Because I, honest to God, don't know of anything more cruel, than taking a wounded newcomer and depriving him of the right to recover. So I just won't I won't deal with that. And so this guy aggravated the case. I was gonna stop anyway, but that made it a lot easier. And I stopped sponsoring that guy.

I gave him several months notice because he's not a handsome beast. I knew he was gonna have a hard time. I said, Buddy, you're gonna have to find you somebody. Gave him a date, hard time. I said, Buddy, you're going to have to find you somebody.

Gave him a date certain. And, on date certain, he still hadn't found anybody. But I was out of here, you know. And so now he's 11 years later. He's 20 years sober.

He still calls me once in a while. And he tells me a lot of wonderful stuff. And I pay absolutely no attention to it because none of it has any connection to reality. And so I listen to it like the wind blowing, and cordial with him and I hang up and wait for him to call me again. And so sometimes, you know, in a case like that, that was because I saw the lack of of of of you know, the guy just not willing to do the stuff.

And in a case like that, that, I have no I mean, I don't like doing that. But it was what I'm doing is perpetuating a myth when I continue to allow sponsorship to be used to describe a relationship. That's sponsorship to be used to describe a relationship. That's a myth. There is no sponsorship.

And so I'm not willing to condone, you know, something where there's nothing going on. There are other times when the the the the relationship just becomes dysfunctional, where people, just won't follow the agreements and get more and more lax and slack about maintaining contact and maintaining viable dialogue. And so in a case like that, when there's no response to repeated warnings, I'll just say, you know, I think it's gone far enough. And I'm not mad at you. I'll be your friend, but I'm not gonna call it sponsorship.

But I think there is a viable dialogue that has to occur for that to have meaning. And and so I those kinds of things I put on on our standards. But come and get Don talk about this a little bit, and then we'll come back on on the thing about dealing with it and and the heading of that, medication stuff. But that is a big issue, and it's one that is well worth talking about a little bit. But let me let me get Don to talk about that a little bit.

And, no one will work past quitting time. Even though we stole 45 minutes on breaks. I've been sorting through this one of late because I've come to dislike the word sponsor because it doesn't mean anything anymore. It means too much. And I had I had an experience to set it off and then I'll tell you what I think about sponsorship.

It's part of my battle with ritual, by the way. I was at a little conference in, Ohio last year. I'm a host with a young fellow about a year from a sponsorship line that says, Call me before you go to the bathroom in the morning. Total taking over your life. And, nice enough people, but that was where he came from.

I was 33 years sober and as we began to interact during the weekend, it became clear to him that I do something a little different. And so he asked me because part of the part of the ritual that this group goes through is I have a sponsor whose name is, whose name is, whose name is, and all the scalps are taken off the wall and put out there for you to look at. And the implication the way it's done, if you're not doing it this way, you're not doing it right, get away from me. I hate to say it, but that goes on. So he asked me, do I have a sponsor?

And I had to honestly say, please describe to me what you mean by that so I can answer the question. And when he was finished describing it, I said by what you described, no, I don't. And I watched his face. It truly disturbed me because I was a living lie. You can't stay sober this long unless you do it this way.

But I had. And I don't wanna ever be put in that spot again. So I started investigating. What what the hell does that really mean? All I know about it is the way I was sponsored.

And my experience is a a little different because we only had one meeting a week and we weren't even allowed to go go to that one. That's with the steps and we weren't fit for that meeting. They had real people come in from the outside. And until we had something to say, which goes back to where sponsorship came from. No.

It's not in this book. It's described but it's not mentioned as a word. A sponsor in any organization is the guy who says, guys who are already members, old Tommy would like to become a member. And the guys say, well, we're not too sure about him. Tell you what we'll do.

If you will be responsible for him for a little while until he learns how we operate so when he shows up in the meeting, he don't screw it all up. You teach him what it is we do. And then we'll all get together and let him do it and see if he got it and you're off the hook. That's kind of the way it is in the elks and the moose. I know it was here too.

Yeah. So that's one one piece of sponsorship that I looked at as a word, one description of it. I am responsible to the new person to show them what it is we do here. Now I'm having difficulty these days because instead of showing them what we do, we're teaching them our lingo instead. So in 3 or 4 weeks, they've got the lingo and when you talk to them, they sound alright.

They're dying. But they sound alright. We got Domingo. We didn't show them what at all we did. I came from a group that showed me let me describe sponsorship in here and then I'll get on with it.

Because it is described here pretty clearly. In the form of the first edition is described, we have alcoholics anonymous of more than a 100 men and women who have recovered from the seemingly healthy state of mind and body. To show other alcoholics precisely how we recover is the main purpose of this book that describes it. My job as a sponsor has been done with me. They showed me precisely how they would recover.

Didn't lie to me. It was a strange thing that I saw. My life was more important to them than anything else. They didn't care if I died. It's one of the first apparent conflicts in the CIA.

Your life matters more to me than mine. I don't care if you die. Show me precisely what they have done. Now we were in a limited environment. They couldn't do a whole lot.

There were restrictions on your time and your movement. But part of what they did do was begin immediately working with others. Immediately. As I go through this book, I see the same thing. Everything about AA is immediate.

As soon as you have between. In fact, quite often, the person with 3 weeks of sobriety is more effective on a call than I am because they can't believe me. They can't even hear me. And besides, I talk kind of fluffy except on a 12 step call. Talk loud, buddy.

Talk loud. Talk loud. Bill uses the word protege in the book. And that's my understanding wants to do what this person's doing, and the mentor takes time out of their otherwise busy life to walk gently with a new person and show them what it is we do and how we do it, to befriend them. But it's a it's a relationship of equals.

From the very beginning, it's a relationship of equals. Now taking that background the way I sponsored a day and a half for years in the free world is very simple. There are instructions in here about what to do when somebody asks you if you work with them. There's some hoops to jump through. First of all, let's say you heard me and decided you want what I have.

So you come to me after the meeting and say, will you be my sponsor? My response is my home group meets on Friday morning at 6 o'clock at Saint Joseph's Hospital in the Aspen Room right next to the cafeteria. Why don't you meet me there and we'll talk about it? I want to know first of all if you really mean business. And if you show up at my group at 6 in the morning on Friday, you mean business.

I don't have to question you or interrogate you. If you don't, we can't talk about it. So I'll just wait. Now when we talk about it, I'm like Tom. There are certain things we need to know.

What's going to go on here? Well, I'm going to show you precisely how I recovered through this book which means we have to find a time and a place that we both agree on and it has to be regular. The first lesson that I got was be regular. Now, you can come once a week. You can come once a month.

You can come every day. I don't care as long as we establish that. As long as you understand what we're going to do here is go through this. We're also going to do other things. But during this period of time, be quiet.

If you knew it, hang on, you wouldn't be here. Okay. Missy, I'm gonna read this to you and then share with you how it is that I was brought to this, and then we'll talk about it. And then you'll get assignments like I did. And they're not other people's assignments.

They come right out of here. This damn thing understands us completely. We're too dumb to even know when to pray, so it tells us when. It tells us how, and it tells us when not to pray. When you get off your ass to go do something.

It tells you what question to ask and when to ask it. I mean, they're really very clear. Left them all devices. I'll screw it up. So we will do that.

Now I believe that I'm responsible for exposing you to the wholeness of AA. I have been influenced deeply by people that I could not put the word sponsor on that have had effect all my life so profound it changed. Bob White was 1. He was 1. Oh, Wes Parrish.

There were some old timers in this operation when I got here that were giants. We don't need giants anymore, by the way. Any social movement that's getting started needs giants to break down the barriers. But we just need leaders now. But anyway, I'm going to expose you at the proper time to my mentors.

I have them all on tape. You'll get to hear their voices. I love reading Chuck's book, but I'd much rather listen to the talk he gave that the book came from. There's something about Chuck's hee hee hee that just gets to me. So I will expose you to that and at the proper time.

And you don't know what it is. I do because I've been practicing this a while. One of my favorite things, because I get asked to talk locally from time to time, In the fist step one time, Phil and I were fist stepping, and I had to talk in a treatment center. And he was ultra sick, so it took a long time. And we went through when it was time to go, and he didn't know how I operate.

We fist stepped all the way out. We got to the place, and I informed him then that he was the 10 minute speaker, right in the middle of the fist step. It's time you got involved. And what better time than when you're all cranked up? You're temporarily telling the truth.

As a sponsor, I am to be not only a mentor, but a guide. I've been over this trail. I I know the difference between a snake and a stick. And on this path there really are no snakes. There's only sticks.

But some of them have thorns in them. Example. I've got a kid that's been in and out, finally got him through some inventory, and a good part of the inventory because he's young was the way he mistreated women. Okay. And we got some very specific amends to make, but the biggest one is he's got to change how he treats women.

And when we went into the inventory, he had spotted a little filly that intrigued me. And I said, well, perhaps you ought to leave that alone till we're through here. And he took that direction. And as soon as we finished the fiscuit, he says, can I call her now? I said, well, if you think you can have a date with her and not hurt her, yeah, but you got to ask yourself, can you call call her and have a date and not hurt her?

Called me back just before I came down here and says, I'm having difficulty. How in the world am I going to have a date if I have to worry all the time about whether I'm hurting or not? I said, well, it isn't time then, is it? I don't tell them you can't. I suggest until you're straight to the thing, because if you continue to harm people you're surely not correct again.

A change has to take place. A man doesn't mean I'm sorry. It means change. I changed what I did here and I changed what I do from here on. I want you to meet and interact with my family.

I don't know whether you're gonna have a family or not, but you might as well find out what they're about. I get to psychopaths, by the way. Well, I do because I know who they are. They're just frightened of the way. And my children, because we communicate in my house, know that's who's sitting on the couch.

They also know they're perfectly safe because I'm there. There's no question about it. I can out cycle anybody that comes into my house. Don't pull your bluff on me. Mainly, I absolutely adore them.

I just love them like sick babies. And so they're and they respect my home. Never have I had any trouble. And I've had some bad people in that house. Never any trouble.

We start and again it's it's because of the way I was I've got a special room. Some of you have been in it. It's a very private place, and this is where we're going to do our work. But first we're going to start on the couch near the front door and the stairs that come down for a couple reasons. You're not bringing your shitty attitude into my room, first of all.

It's a spiritual place you ain't messing with. With it. You haven't earned the right to go into my room yet. Sorry, but that's the truth. More importantly, I want you to see how me and my family get ready for the day.

This one particular time was wonderful. I've got 2 daughters that then were in their early teens. And if you think it's hard getting out of bed when you're alone, try to get out of bed and get ready when you've got got 2 teenage girls and a wife in the house getting ready for work. Just sit down and wait. I might as well have somebody come over because I can't get in a bathroom till after 10.

Anyhow, the lunatic and I are sitting there. This is the one who later threatened him on driveway to kill me. He got distressed because it's all in the truth. He didn't, obviously, but we're sitting there. My 13 year old comes tippying down the stairs, and I've raised a mouthy one.

One who has attitude and writes letters to the editor and gets right in her face. And I encourage that. Her sister's a wimp, but I love her anyway. Sister's a wimp, but I love her anyway. She comes tripping down the stairs, and she said, excuse me with attitude.

I'm reading the book. We're involving life and death here. And shocked me, and I said, what do you want? I was surprised she would interrupt this meaningful thing going on here. She says, you know, I live here too, and you haven't introduced me to this person.

We both got a lesson in human behavior I want to expose you. If you have come to me to ask me to sponsor you, I wanna expose you to the things that that I made me what I am. Every now and then, one of the guys that come with me on one of these deals are to a conference. I never ask them to. If they ever ask me, I'll see to it to get you going.

I try to get them to pay for their own ticket. They should be self supporting through their own contributions. If they can't do that, I've got plenty of frequent flyer miles. And, they don't belong to me. They belong to my family, and they're part of the family, so off we go.

They get their own room. I'm not sleeping with no lunatics. Unless the conference is paying for it. Put us where you want it. Just make sure there's 2 beds.

Now that's the regimented part. I believe this firmly. When new people come to me, they're incapable of surrendering to God. They either hate him, don't believe in him, or confused about it, but surrender is the absolute bottom line requirement for moving it forward. You gotta surrender the old way entirely.

So I let them surrender to me. 6 o'clock, my house. I get a sacrifice. This is not until the first time we meet. Then they surrender to process.

And in the process, they're able then in time to surrender to God, and now that's when I let him go. We still continue on with my exposing, but from here on, you can't count on me. And the way that works out because that may happen at the 3rd step. It may not be until 5th or 6th though. Watch for it.

We have had a rigid schedule. You must be there every Tuesday at 6th. That's the deal. Once we we finish the 5th, 6th, and 7th step, you no longer have an appointment. In fact, back at the 4th step, you no longer have an appointment.

You go home and you make a list. As soon as your list is done, call me and I will make time for you. But I'm not putting any restraints on this thing because this has to come from within, not from me. And if it takes you a long time making your list, when you call, I will remind you that you've accessed spiritual power here because everything from the 3rd step to the 7th step is all part of one prayer. It's one spiritual activity.

Don't wait too long. So that's kinda how I do that. And then once that's all done, take this inventory list, make a new list. I'm a listing person. All the people here you all manage to.

Make that list. Then add anybody you can think of because you met with them, you messed with with them. That's what my sponsor told me. Okay? Then I was given an exercise that I will give you.

Go back to your private place. Take this list and look at it. Close your eyes and picture each one of these people in your mind and see if you can feel a willingness in your heart to look them right in the eye and say to them, I've been wrong and I've harmed you. Would you please tell me what I have to do to get the books to balance? I got free locked up in a penitentiary cell doing that.

Lift literally lifted from my chair and set free. Willingness is the demonstrable sign of the presence of God. It is so powerful that the very instant I'm willing to be changed, I have already been changed. It's just instant. Then I kinda go over that list with them.

My sponsor did with me. He had me because I couldn't get out and make amends. He wouldn't let me out and wouldn't let you in. Mhmm. You said, well, some of them we can deal with by mail, and some of them you're gonna have to go see.

And I learned a very important thing. I get to live with what I did, sometimes for a long period of time and there's nothing wrong with that. I'm not guilty or ashamed about it, but I have some pain in my heart over some of the things that I did, and I should have. It keeps keeps me from getting arrogant. It helps me to understand.

I made a guy so mad the other day, Tom. He said, what do I get at the end of this? I said, compassion. I said, you son of a bitch. You know, I get something better than that?

No. Compassion. Okay. But bring me your list. What do you do it on?

Cards or yellow paper or toilet paper? I don't care. Bring me who you harmed, how you harmed, and then what you think you can do to make that right. As part of this process now that I'm free is to help the people that I harmed get free too. If I harm you, I put you in a bad emotional state.

I need to give you the opportunity to smack me down or forgive me or whatever you need to do. And all most people ever want is for me to come and say I was wrong. And you're waiting for years to hear me just say that. Then you're pretty much on your own. Get on about it.

If you wish, I will show you how I do the 10th step, but so does this. 10th, 11th, and 12th step can overlap, particularly 10th and 11th. I do not spend a whole lot of time showing people how to meditate. You really don't wanna try what I do today. It's different than what I did last month.

It's been different all along the way. I will share that with you if you wish, but you're kinda on your own now as far as this program goes. Now you and I together will go out seeking. I take one of the guys I I sponsored to a prison meeting that I'm committed to, 3rd Tuesday of every month. We drive for 2 hours, talk with the lunatics for an hour, and drive 2 hours back home.

He's getting exposed to that. I take them to assemblies I talked to. We have a tradition and concepts meeting at my house every Wednesday night, 5:30. We're we're gonna go through that, they need to see the whole scope of the deal. I've become what's known as an elder statesman in service.

I think I'm just a cranky elder statesman. My voice is heard through the people that I sponsor. The very nature of the fact that I became a trustee and did all this public stuff, well, I didn't get any prestige from it, but you all think I did. And the people at the assembly think I'm all knowing. So we got a problem.

When I show up in the assembly, there's a group of people who believe if I say it, it's gospel. There's another group of people who believe if I say it, it's got to be bullshit. So I found out how to be really effective is to send 10 people that I was working with there and my voice turned 10 times. Nobody knows I said it. It's working.

Not that I don't go to assemblies, but not much anymore. I'm still very active in general service. And if I sponsor you, you must know that. I will expose you to it. You may not fit in general service.

You may fit in other some other kind of service. Unlike Tom, service is when the rich part of recovery comes. I know what I'm supposed to do here now today with you guys. My real responsibility, my real job is to make sure that after I'm dead and gone, 50 years from now, whoever comes through that door gets the same shot I did. And that means I have to stay actively involved in serving the fellowship as a whole beyond anything that that I want.

I just finished taking on general service, people I love dearly. Some of them are really mad at me, and I don't care. This 4th edition big book has a statement in it. It's so outrageous. I could not sit home and not say something.

In the forward to the 4th edition big book is a statement that says, fundamentally, the only difference between an electronic meeting and a home group around the corner is on a format. How many people are gonna get killed by that one? So don't worry about it. It's been taken out. 5 people.

That's all it took. It's 5 people to write a letter saying, this is outrageous. Put this on the agenda. Let's let the congress see this. I don't think they're gonna like it.

And they didn't. Right or wrong as a sponsor and as a member of Alcoholics Anonymous, I don't care how it goes. The end result really truly doesn't matter. What matters is that we keep talking about things. This fellowship will survive only as long as we're all talking about things.

And the longer we talk, the better chance we have of surviving. If you need to vote, you haven't talked long enough. K. And the stuff we did in in the eighties that solved all the problems are brand new problems. You're gonna try to solve them all over again.

That's as it should be. Each new group of people needs to resolve the problems. We don't want solutions. We want resolutions. Constantly bring them in.

Our group inventory covers that. Group I belong to had a closed meeting. I frankly think it should be an open meeting. So in every group inventory, I brought up, let's open it up. And one of the guys that sponsors said, no.

Let's keep it closed. And we engaged in the battle because the new people who had come during that period of time weren't part of the decision. They needed to be part of the decision. You become part of my family if you wish. You know my wife.

You know my children. We get together in my backyard. You don't have to clean up dog crap because we don't have a dog. But we get together and we become part of Alcoholics Anonymous in our respective occupations, homes, and affairs. This is where it really happens.

You have them in the backyard. Some of you know about our fellowship of the spirit conference every year. It's held up right around 10,000 feet. It starts on Thursday. So on Wednesday night, we hold a potluck.

Both so you can all get together mainly so you can stay at 5,000 feet for a while. So when you get to 10,000, you're not gonna get oxygen. Depletion is sick, and we get the benefit. The main thing sponsorship does is for me, I'm constantly addressing my own alcoholism. I'm never very far away from it.

I'm explaining to you what happened to me back in 1953 and in 66 and 67, and it's fresh to me. I challenge every week. I challenge maybe I'm not an alcoholic because that's one of those rocks that there's a worm under in everybody's head. It's wonderful because I get to go through this thing over and over and over, and I've made a host of friends. It's an embarrassment where I go.

When we take a vacation, we can't tell people where we're going. Everybody gets hurt because they want us to come stay at their house. I love you, but I don't wanna stay at your house. That's why I bought that van. I'm gonna go camping.

Except for Broussard's. I like Broussard's. Got a lake out back and we go fishing in the morning at 6. Get soccer lay perch and have them for breakfast. I'll stay with the other.

Mentor and protege more defines it. Now if we can understand that's what I mean by sponsorship, then we can use the word. And it's that way with many things in Alcoholics Anonymous today. The words that have no meanings because they have too many meanings. I was in a meeting probably 15 years ago when it first hit me and I started my little personal thing about not becoming ritualized.

A lady was sharing in a meeting and it was a good sharing. She came to a place. She said, I had this particular problem. I did a quick 10th and it's over. It's gone.

Moved on. I said, woah. Wait a minute. What did she just say? She did a quick 10th.

What the hell is a quick 10th? Now I've been around a while. I know she meant she had done a 10 step inventory. What the hell does that mean? Does she do it the way the big book shows?

The way Hazelton shows, the way some weird way? And if I'm a new person, what the hell is a quick tense? And I began to try not to get into the lingo but to describe the experience. Because you had to convince me. I didn't trust anybody.

I stayed here because I watched these 3 guys after the school that talked so good and sounded so good. I watched them on the yard and I watched them on the tears and I watched them as they moved through that penitentiary. I watched un unselfish courage demonstrated by my sponsor. They were messing with our school one time. And this was a shocker.

This guy was cool. He was spiritual and and never got upset by anything he was doing life. And all of a sudden the administration decides they're gonna mess with our study school. And he freaked out. That's what he got mad.

That's what he did. Stomped down the stairs headed for the warden's office and I know he's headed for the hole for he's headed. You don't go stomping into the warden's office raising hell when she got a number on your chest. He's going to the hole. Some period of time passed and he came back and he was happy and they quit messing with us.

And somehow I understood I had just seen true courage in action. It would have been so much easier for him to just say, Let it go. Then he wouldn't have to tie up Saturday and Sunday anymore. He didn't need that thing for himself. He did this for us.

He became a spokesman for those who had no voice and risked going to the hole and having all his privileges taken away from us. That's the kind of courage I want. That's the kind of courage that I must have because I'm going to be asked along the way to go places that are really scary, like church basements and masonic halls. Safest place I've ever been, Tom, was at Harnett. I was in the middle of a it's kind of a maximum, minimum, maximum security prison.

The defenses are all over the damn place. They don't want anybody out. And I'm in the center of it at night. And my mother and I have been talking. My mother gets nervous because I do a lot of prison work, and I have to remind her mom, the time to get nervous is when I was 1, not now.