The Our Primary Purpose confernence in London, UK

Could, could you all take your seats, please? The the the next hour is gonna be a question and answer session with, with our 3 speakers. Questions to be asked by raised hand. We have the, the lovely bridey with the roving mic. The the lovely bridey with the roving mic, who will who will come and who will come and get your questions.

Anything else to say? We we had some questions during lunch as as to whether there was any any AA meetings on tonight, and I I would recommend a meeting. It's probably the the second best meeting in our colleagues anonymous. That's the, the Barking big book study. Where are you guys?

Could could could you stand up and make yourselves known? There we go. So so if anybody wants to go to a good big book study meeting tonight, they're the guys to go and see. Okay. With that, could we have, raised hands please for questions?

Simple ones for Chris. We have the the lady Daphne. It's Daphne with the pink jumper. Thank you. Hello, guys.

It's lovely to actually be here and listen to you guys, but anyway, I'll shut up. My name's Daphne, and I'm an alcoholic. How do you deal with people who bring out the spiritual malady in you in AA or people who you don't get along with in AA? And that's to all 3 of you. Yeah.

That's a tough question, kid. The question that always comes up in this stuff is, is it why do I still have buttons that can be pushed? You know, it's like, always the book tells us real clearly that we've stopped fighting anyone or anything, even alcohol. Left on our own devices, that's not my general nature. My general nature is to be argumentative and and insist.

I'm selfish and self centered to the core. And so I'm gonna make sure that my agenda is heard. Part of this spiritual quest, part of this deal of trying to get healthier mentally is that we stop doing that. And then the deal is is to try to gradually get to a point where I just don't let the buttons get pushed anymore. So, sometimes in the middle of it, it's still hard to see it, but I can tell you with some some experience that in retrospect, you can look back on your life and you can see how easy those buttons were pushed when you first got here and how it gets easier and easier and easier to steer clear of it.

Somebody wants to jam you up about something, sweet pea, you could be right. You see, I've stopped fighting anyone or even alcohol. I don't have to fight with you or anything like that. My sponsor always said that if you argue with an idiot, you become an idiot. And I and I believe that.

I just I don't wanna I don't wanna do that. I don't know if that answers question, but that all I had to have with that. I I'll tell you something that my sponsor told me years ago, it set me free. He says, you know, Chris, you have to love everybody in our fellowship. You don't have to like them.

And it's and it's heresy. Some people think, oh, that's not right. I'm gonna tell you something, folks. Today, in sobriety is a is is a free man, free in my own head, free in the I choose who I wanna hang around. And if you are on a different orbit than me, then you know what I'm saying?

It's not my responsibility to drag you into my orbit. It's just like, go have a nice life. I don't, I will love and respect you and help you any way I can, but I don't have to associate with you. And that's perfectly okay. And I think that's same step as as I got further along in the work and further along in in the, you know, the 4 step was such a great tool at the beginning to help me see why these people irritated me so much, you know, because I get to the 4th column and thoughts because because I'm involved, you know.

It's about me. And so, kind of what what Myers was talking about as well is I get to see that it was like, oh, wait. I know why this woman irritates me because I'm I'm just like her, you know, or or because I used to be the same way or because whatever, you know. And so the love and tolerance that's that's our code, you know, it's it's hard to to do it sometimes. But I know with, with a lot of practice on, you know, and and doing it wrong quite a few times and then figuring out how to do it right, I I get better at it.

But I'm definitely it definitely still gets me. But because of the work I've done up until this point, it's easy to look back and see why, you know, well, why did that person piss me off? Well, Alicia, you signed up. You know, you knew the guy blah blah blah blah. Why did you you know, and I can look at some of that.

And what a great deal we've been given is exact tools to help us see this kind of stuff. And, and and I'm with Chris. There's there's people in our fellowship that I absolutely love and I would do anything for, you know, if they needed my help and I'm there for them. But I'm not gonna, you know, subject myself to some of their craziness as well because I'm I'm I'm signing up. You know, I'm setting myself up to get irritated and resentful and blah blah blah blah.

And so kinda, protectively loving, you know, from a distance. Okay. Next question. Marianne, you stand up, please, Marianne. Hi.

Marianne. I'm an alcoholic. Hey, Marianne. Yeah. My question is about it.

As we all as somebody mentioned when you were speaking, there's a lot of people who are sober and, who get very suicidal, very depressed, and all. And as we were saying, that there's a lot of people who commit suicide when they are sober. And, my question is about how can we do more to help the person who is sober, and the person who is relying on a power of grace than themselves to keep themselves sober, but they're still full of all the madness and sadly, maybe be successful. I'm talking about people, sadly, maybe be successful. I'm talking about people, I'm sure we all know them, that go to strong meetings and they are given the message.

The message whether these people are full of self will or deny denial or, dishonesty and stubbornness and, you know, all that kind of defiant stuff. For some reason, these people do not believe that it is a solution, and they don't believe that the solution is gonna work for them. And there's a lot of people that, as we all know, really want to get well. But sadly, for you know, they're not putting in the actions, and they're not putting the information into action, and they're going back out, and and they're dying. That's my question.

Thanks. Here's my experience, and it's it'll sound harsh. I'm really a very sensitive individual. This program will work for anybody that does the work. And, and I came into this fellowship with this absolute absolute terminal uniqueness is what kills alcoholics and addicts.

This but you don't understand, comma, my case is different. And if somebody wants to keep that frame of mind, they will die from this disease. And we we're gonna lose people, pure and simple. But let's not let's not mistake this for anything else other than self will run riot. I'm gonna do it my way until the day I die.

That's your choice. You go do it. But sooner or later, if you can get somebody in that pain, you can you can very directly right in front front of them. Will you work these 12 steps rapidly? Not over a long period of time, not months, weeks.

Let's do this. And those my experience is you'll see the depression lift, and they will get a new sense of direction and some hope in their life. And and they will go from there and and and be successful. We we can't save everybody. But this this entire program is about action.

It's cause and effect. You do this. This happens. It's like looking at a picture of Pamela Anderson. You look at it long enough, you're gonna you're gonna get a little woody.

And that's just whether you believe it or not, it's just it's gonna happen. I could probably have come up with a better analogy for that. The chap behind the lady in the white shirt was was first. I can't remember your name. Yeah.

My name's Jonathan. I'm an alcoholic. Thanks very much. You said so much that arrived so very, very quickly. I wonder if, you could just run through this intriguing idea that was completely new to me of the primary purpose expressed in the preamble versus the primary purpose in the big book.

It was all new, and it went rather quick. Can you go through that again for me, please? Or not? Well, let me let me I gotta be real honest with you because I'm not sure. I've been I've been removed from the primer from the preamble that the grapevine wrote for so many years now that I probably couldn't even and I don't go to discussion meetings anymore, and I don't go to meetings where those things are read.

The meetings that I go to are discussion meetings that have adopted the the the, the preamble from the forward of the 1st edition, but listen to it, when we were ready for, I want to read something real quick and, but listen to, listen to what specifically they were talking about on this stuff because what it said was was that we have Alcoholics Anonymous are more than 100 men and women who have recovered. They're telling us who we are collectively as a fellowship. We're not a bunch of weird guys with it. This is where we are. From a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body, we understand that.

To show these are these are, action verbs on this thing, to show other alcoholics precisely how we have recovered. Not just sort of, not just a vague idea, precisely how we recovered is the main purpose of this book. For them, we hope these pages will prove so convincing that no further authentic authentication will be necessary. And then lastly, on this little part that I'm gonna read, we think this account of our experiences will help everyone to better understand the alcoholic. These what we were what we are always assuming here is that the people who are giving the direction are the are the guys that experienced recovery.

And those are the guys that we want to be listening to. The stuff that we'll talk about, I'll talk about in here in just a little bit on the stuff, is this constant frustration of experiences being carried that were not from the book, that were not about recovery. Experience strength and hope. That's another great vine added thing to our program. That is not in our big book.

The big book the big book talked about experience and and and knowledge on page 19. It did not talk about experience, strength, and hope. Experience, strength, and hope leaves it open to anybody that came in, that just sat around a few meetings, and had a few hip slick and cool things to share. And so the new guy comes in, and he's starting to share his stuff. We need to be careful who we're listening to.

Are we listening to a recovered alcoholic that understands my dilemma, or are we listening to a disco drunk that just got spanked and in trouble and ended up here? Dig. I think that answers that thing. Somebody may be more familiar with the grapevine version of it. I've just flat forgot it.

Thank you. Just as soon forget it. Next question. Where are we? Got guy over there.

Estosh. You. You. Thanks. My name's Mark, an alcoholic.

Really enjoying today. I'd like to thank everybody who who made it possible for this convention. Question I've got is, something I've been thinking about recently as well, is about qualifying the newcomer and, finding out if they're really an alcoholic of our type and whether they need a spiritual solution. And when I'm doing that, I start to think whether or not, you know, I'm a, I'm a real alcoholic and, I was wondering, what the what you suggest do I do with that internal that internal voice that tells me, you know, I'm 4 years sober now. Maybe I don't need to be working this program.

Maybe I'd like to do this, do that. This is hard work what we do here, isn't it? You know, 4 sponsors, 2 meetings a week, you know, prison service. And when I get people coming into the fellowship that don't want to do the work, I start struggling to, well, basically to get rid of them, you know, to bend them off. So I wonder what the what you think about that.

Any suggestions? Thank you. I talked to several of you in during the break, that that are on the same page. Anytime I talk talk about this from the podium, it's it is quite controversial. There's nothing more uncomfortable for me to do is sit in a meeting and watch somebody squirm with this.

Am I? It's like we're straddling the fence. One day, I'm convinced I'm an alcoholic, and the next day, you know, shit. I'm not so sure. You know, maybe I'm maybe I'm not.

And it's like and it's like until you get comfortable, you're you're not gonna jump into this thing with both feet. And that's what I think the gift that we can give to the newcomer is to finally get them off dead center. Let me just for grins, how many of you guys have been in treatment, more than once? Raise your hand. Bunch of us, in the hospital that I work at.

It's about 80% of the patients that come to our hospital have been to you get? It was the first step. Are you powerless over alcohol? Does your experience abundantly confirm 2 things? When I drink it, do I drink abnormally?

Do I overdrink at times? Yeah. Okay. But the book says the phenomena of craving never takes place in a normal drinker. Normal drinkers don't over drink, folks.

They may drink heavily, but they always get to a certain spot and they'll stop no. Excuse me. No more for me. I'm starting to feel it, you know, which freaks me out, you know? Me too.

Can I have another? You know, because the craving is kicked in. The craving is kicked in. But you got if if we just talk about that to the craving piece, then what we're dealing with is a behavioral problem. Well, hell, if you know you can't drink like a normal person and then you quit, I can't.

Because from 23 to 43 in the book, it explains the mental obsession. And that's the problem we have. Everybody wants to lump all of our all of our symptoms around alcoholism. They wanna call craving. Craving is a physical response to the chemical once you ingest it.

I don't if I'm sober 6 months, I am not craving alcohol. I am obsessing about alcohol. And that's what the book says. The main problem centers in his mind rather than his body. I can detox a 1000 times.

Have done it. I can quit. I'm a great quitter. I'm just a better starter, you know, and I and I go back. Well, why was it that my mind told me even after all of the bad things that have happened to me further away from a drink than I've ever been, why is my mind telling me I can take a drink?

That's the insanity that is alcoholism. And if you could identify with that, have you ever been given good in Welcome to the fellowship. You you are you are it is we don't talk about the war story so much, guys, because it separates all of us. It's a book says on page 17, a common problem is one element that that that ties us together, but it's a common solution that keeps us bound together. And it's it's no more than that.

That's why I don't go into meetings and talk about my DWIs and stuff. I don't go into meetings and talk about my drama because it separates me from other people that have never experienced that stuff. War stories, and I'll talk about it in the morning, it got its place. In a meeting is not where we share it. You with me?

The the the the diagnosis for alcoholism is summed up in 2 words, control and choice. And that's it. No drama. Control and choice. You're cool?

And then when I get with a newcomer and they could answer firmly to those questions, then we we have a new member of the fellowship. It's it is just that simple. But I was in AA for 7 years and nobody ever asked me those questions ever. And so I spent 7 years. One day, I'm I'm an alcoholic.

The next day, I'm not so sure. That's a tough place to be. Thank you. You wanna add to that? I'm gonna talk about it later.

I just wanted to mention something that he touched on. I work at the same treatment center with him. He's my boss. Why are they laughing? Anyway, and and we see that that happen a lot.

He teaches 1st step and obviously he's a, you know, incredible teacher of and explain those same things. And we have so many people that say, okay, I get it. I get it. I'm an alcoholic and he does the same kind of qualification stuff. But within 3 weeks of them being in treatment, they are, they're they're causing drama.

They're not showing up to group. They're doing this. And and the point we keep able to bring back to them is if you really believe that, you know, looking at the feet I I don't know why that's that's a big thing in my life today. If if I really believe what I'm saying, then then you're gonna see it in my feet, you know. And and, people that relapse and think that it was an I didn't finish my amends or I didn't finish the 4 step or I didn't spill the full beans in the fit.

You know, it's like, no. It's cause you didn't think you had to because you weren't desperate. You didn't really think you were dying. And so that's the experience from working out there. My own personal experiences is, I I've I've battled that at the beginning when they started talking about the the total abstinence, you know, for forever, you know.

And and and I knew I understood the choice and the control, and I understood that that that the damage it was causing. But there was still a little bit of a the the little voice guy going on, you know, and it was just shut up, you know. And and as I really understood the first step more and got more involved in it, it was it was almost the surrender to win process, you know, just this, oh, you mean nothing ever again. Chronic, progressive, fatal. I'm gonna die.

Okay, I get it. Let's do this. You know, and so my my feet there showed that I believed it because I did this work. Now I've I've experienced you know, there's been times in in my sobriety that, you know, I've gotten complacent or I have stopped going so full force and doing stuff. And, what usually happens in my life is I get a newcomer that's put in front of me that is my identical twin.

And as I'm helping her and I get, you know, I get to use all that stuff that's not so fresh anymore, you know. Because it's the pain is so great right at the beginning that, oh, yeah. I don't ever want to be that again. And as the years have gone by, it's like it I could have a tendency to to do that. I've got to keep working with the newcomer.

You know, I've got to keep reminding I just got to stay in it and stay active. And for me, that's that's that's been the thing to keep it to primary focus on involved in this fellowship. And and, so but kind of back to the primary purpose, you know, being there and carrying this message, from my experience keeps that little the little voice isn't there, you know, when I'm when I'm staying there and doing that. I'm probably not going to get up again because I just kind of ramble. Okay.

We can have the guy next to Brydie. Save you running around. My name is Jared. I'm an alcoholic. Hi, Jared.

Yeah. Just like to say thank you very much for today. It's been real good stuff. This is a pro for something that was mentioned by Mark here. In sponsorship, which has been talked about quite a lot this morning, sponsorship, How do you feel about sponsoring recovered alcoholics?

I've been around a few 24 hours, and I've sponsored a few guys in my time. And when they get to that 10th 10th step, and as it tells us, you know, we've ceased fighting anyone or anybody, the problem is removed. They're recovered. So I then turned to working with newcomers, and, I use Chris, you were saying about condition and choice. Basically, the 3 questions.

You got a problem? Do you wanna do something about it? Are you prepared to go to any lengths? What I'm finding now with the newcomers that that I want was the lens that they're prepared to go to are not the lens that I went to or in a lot of cases, my guys have recovered. You know, they won't go to a meeting unless they get a lift.

That sort of thing. You know, they won't go off a butts and walk anywhere. Yeah. And I find this very difficult and, I wondered if you could, maybe give me a few pointers on that one, apart from dumping them. Yeah.

Yeah. What a great question. There's actually 2 questions going on there. First off, I all of these, we never stop sponsoring guys even after they've recovered. We're gonna we're gonna be I think accountability at the core of everything is an ego that keeps rekindling itself.

And and, and unless I have somebody to hold me accountable in Dallas, I got a crusty old guy named Cliff Bishop, and I love him to death. And he is at at one moment, he's the sweetest man alive, and at the next moment, he's the meanest son bitch I ever met in my whole life. He simply but he will not tolerate middle of the road stuff. And if I say anything that speaks of arrogance, if I say anything that speaks of of anything that is not what it's supposed to be, he's my go to guy, and he's not the least bit shy about saying, you don't sound healthy. Let's talk about what's going on.

And it's and it and it works it works beautifully. Fortunately, as we sponsor guys, let's say we sponsor 10 guys. And as we sponsor those men, we got 5 of them that recover, and those men become less and less of a burden time wise. They're just there. We see them in meetings.

We see them at wind up places and joints that we go to carry a message, and they're a joy in our life. These other guys, they're the X factor in the sponsorship stuff. These are the cats that are either gonna do the work by the actions that they take or they're not going to do the work. And we have no control over that. We have responsibilities that are clearly defined, and those are to carry a message to this guy and let him understand what his responsibilities are in AA, what his what his responsibilities are not in AA.

The problem, I'll, as one little side note here, the problem we have around sponsorship is that we bite off too much crap. We we assume too much responsibility for the men that we sponsor. I am not an arbitrator of family affairs. I am not a I don't loan money. I don't have I'm not a doctor.

I'm not a I'm not a clinical guy. I don't know all this stuff. I'm not an attorney. I can't help you with any of this stuff. I didn't sign up for it, and I don't want the responsibility.

What I what I did sign up for wholeheartedly is the responsibility to make sure that a clear cut set of message got to you so that you could then show me by your actions that you are grateful and ready to accept this gauntlet and head on down the road to help somebody else. And that's that's that's huge stuff. Some guys will and some guys won't. If you we were talking a minute ago with 1 young lady that I talked to. You got some guys that show up that don't wanna do this work, pat them on the button and say, have a swell life.

I'm sorry. The this some people are appalled with a thought that you could actually fire somebody. Listen. I'm not actually firing anybody, but as they walk away from me, I'm gonna say bye. I'm not holding anybody.

I'm not holding anybody. That's it's not good for them to do that. I don't want them here because I want them here. I want them here because they see the loving and powerful hand of God helping them through this stuff. That's we need.

Some of these cats are just gonna have to go out and drink. They're gonna have to go do some more, research work until they're ready. Fortunately, most of these guys in short order will turn about face, come back and say, buddy, I just got the holy hell knocked out of me, and I'm ready to do the work. And I'm saying welcome. Let's let's go do this stuff.

I think that answered that. I hope so. Thanks. Guy in the corner. Run, Bridie.

Run. Come on, faster. I know your sponsor. Thanks very much. Hello.

My question is, to Chris. I'm Seamus. I'm an addict, and I don't mean to offend anyone in this present company by that statement. But I would just like you to enlarge on the quite categoric difference that you drew between addiction and alcoholism. And the question that I would ask you is, are you suggest that they take you to different places, you know, in here, you know, internally?

So that's the question. Yeah. What's the difference? When it's a great question. Welcome, buddy.

What do y'all do with all this change? I have so much When, doctor Bob is in the carriage house and he's waiting for Bill Wilson to get there, you know, he's the story goes, you know, as I'll I'll I'll visit with this buckaroo for about 15 minutes, and I'm gonna dust his ass because I I got some drinking to do, you know, mother's day in 1930 35. And, Bill Wilson gets in there and they start sharing some stories about the drinking. And they kick around and they talk. And Doctor.

Bob begins to realize that this this out of work stockbroker sitting across the table from him understands the stuff he's going through. I mean, you know, all of us in here tried to explain our drinking and drugging to other people who are not one of us. And it just it could go so far, and then it just goes on deaf ear. What do you mean you don't have a choice? What what what what do you mean?

Of course, you have a choice. And they don't understand. And so they got some identification going. And then Bill Wilson, you know, does what we he set the hook. You know, he he he reeled a guy in and started explaining what the he felt the solution was.

And and that was the beginning of of Alcoholics Anonymous. 1953, we had drug addicts dying all over this country. The history books are full of the stories. It was tragic. They were dying in our fellowships because they could not identify with drinking too much.

They could identify with shooting heroin that everything about dope and alcohol is different. The physiological change in your body is different. The terminology is different. One's legal, one's illegal. The detox is different.

It's different from A to Z. Until you develop a point of identification, you will not listen to the solution because unless you walk the day in my shoes, don't try to talk to me about what I need to do. That's identification. This was in the traditions. And Bill Wilson understood that, you know, they didn't want the drug addicts coming to our meetings, not in all the other fellowships.

There's over 240 other groups out there right now internationally for every addiction known to man. If you're having trouble with gambling, don't come into an AA meeting and try to get somebody to identify with you because they won't. Go to a gamblers anonymous meeting and get help from people that understand where you've been. I have watched I don't wanna soapbox this. We could be here all afternoon.

I I just because everybody feels real personal personal about it. And I I'm an alcoholic and an addict. And I understand this, but but I have watched drug addicts by the by the 1,000 sit in AA meetings and be miserable. And they don't chair meetings and they don't sponsor people and they don't do they don't because they can't identify with the fellowship that they're sitting in. But they get across the hall in an NA meeting or a CA meeting or a crystal meth anonymous meeting or a marijuana anonymous meeting, and all of a sudden there's this huge identification.

And they're out there kicking butt, taking names. You understand where where we're at with this? It's it's everybody thinks AA is a catchall for every problem in the world. It is not. The solution is the same.

You with me? It's absolutely the same. People misunderstand what I'm saying. Are drug addicts welcome in our meetings? Absolutely.

If you happen to also be an alcoholic, please share. If you're not an alcoholic, shut the up. Because something coming out of your head, sitting in a in an AA meeting not long ago. And it was a pill addict in there. This lady was a opiate addict and she was zoned out.

She'd eaten way too many little benzos that day and she was sitting in the meeting. She was drooling in her cup. You with us? And and all these alcoholics sitting around the room. And it's like the the the common thread, it was like, what do we do?

Because if this lady had been in the right room, they'd have known what to do. And illness, and and so we we we couldn't help this woman. She was detoxing in our damn room. She could have died sitting in that room. You with this?

Well, some of us understood what the deal was. We got her to the right people so that she could get some help. But she's out there hiding out in AA because it was more convenient. I hear it all the time. There's more sobriety in AA.

That's why I go there. What a selfish thing to do. Go to the fellowship where you're supposed to be and then there will be one strong person there to help the next person that comes down the pike. The arrogance of us to think we can help everybody. I'm gonna need a bodyguard after this.

Peter. Speak in English. Oh, yeah. Hi. My name is Peter, and I'm an alcoholic.

Hi, Peter. Just kind of carrying on from I think it was Chris said this morning about, sharing this message in, say, maybe a hostile meeting. One of the from my experience is that if I share first, I now then have an hour of people countersharing. Now, if I share in the middle, within 2 shares, there's gonna be somebody countersharing. If there's a newcomer in the room, he gets 2 messages.

You know. I don't I don't I I was 12 step long time ago this this way, kind of forgot it in the middle and then doing it all over again. I was given a little card, long, long time ago, that said I am responsible. If the hand of AA, I I I got to be responsible. As far as I'm concerned, the hand of AA is 12 steps.

If I go into a meeting and share that for the newcomer in the meeting, and they get a a counter message, for me, I I don't know quite where to go with that, because I it could be confusing for the newcomer, if I'm the only voice in the room saying that, you know, and I am at times. You know, what please share your experience if you have any of that. Let's just take a second then. Peter, Peter, Peter. Brother, there's never been anybody that drew a sober breath that didn't get a message out of the big book, that didn't confront that exact same situation at some point in their deal.

Some of us stay with it for years and some of us figure ways to get clear of it as best they can. If I was in your shoes doing that exact same thing, I would never forget the stuff that Chris said a little bit earlier. My my allegiance, my alliance, my heart goes out to the drunk that still suffers, and I will do anything to make sure that the drunk that still suffers gets the message that he needs to hear, a clear, concise message straight from the big book. If a man shares an opinion in a meeting, and it has the power to kill, and I know it does, I guarantee you the meeting after the meeting is gonna be quite exciting. I'll I'll scoop that buddy up in a heartbeat, and we're gonna we're gonna talk some.

And I'm gonna make sure that he understands that I'm not trying to bust anybody's chops, but there there is some truth here. It's not a bunch of gray area and a bunch of opinion. There was a clear cut set of directions, and that's what we're going to need to carry to this guy. I will never do it in the meeting because it just gets to be nasty. And so usually what I'll do is is, like like you would do, I'll share as early in the meeting as I can, mainly because my guts won't let me sit still and listen to the crap for very much.

By the time I'm to the end of those sick meetings, my guts are so tore up inside that I'm just going nuts. There are others mercifully that are not as weak as I am, and are not as goofy as I am, and they can handle it just fine, and it's fine. But for those guys like me, share early, stay in the book, and then after the meeting, sashay up next to that little buckaroo and say, buddy, I know you heard some conflicting stuff in there. Perhaps we could talk for just a second. And let me tell you why I shared the way I did.

It's great. Works good. Thanks. I think anybody that's been in contemporary a meetings, has been faced with that. It's just that's the bane.

And that's why so many of us, after a period of time, you take a few shots to the jaw. You know, you go like, what is this really? Do I need to do this? You know, some of us get jaded. I was talking to some of us during the break at lunch, you know, when we were talking.

Some of us just have a tendency to just go to our little big book thumper meetings where we can be insulated from that because I'm spoiled down there in the Hill Country because we all carry big books. We're all on the same page. But, eventually, you've got to branch out and start carrying the message back into some of these other other meetings. And the bottom line is, and I don't want to offend anybody, spiritual program at all. There's another book that was written out there.

I think some people they call it the bible. I think some people call it. And, it talks about a spiritual path. You're with this little narrow path, the road less traveled. There's a reason it's less traveled.

The why because because it's a bitch. You get on the you get on the spiritual path and it's like it's like Bill Wilson. I I hear people all the time that they they misquote, but Bill Wilson, he wrote extensively. He says, in order to get sober, you gotta have 2 things, humility and responsibility. Okay.

I'm humbly. I'm gonna do this work. And then I have a responsibility to stand for what the book says. My sponsor, Mark h, out of Dallas, he says it all this, you don't have to defend the big book. I'm not going to get in a pissing contest with anybody.

What does the book say? I got a fatal illness. Am I gonna bet my life on the opinion of some idiot in a meeting? Or am I gonna go back to the literature and see what this literature says? Because this book has never lied to me ever.

It's told me some things I didn't wanna look at. That's for damn sure. You know, I sometimes wanna slide it off. You know, it's not always the easier, softer way here. You know?

But it but it feels so good when you when you finally stand for something. And, for every one of you that have taken those kind of shots, I I just just know you got a bunch of guys in Texas that are praying for you because it happens no matter where we speak. It happens everywhere. So we're we're not gunslingers. We don't go in and look for a fight.

I I have this image out there that that's what I do. I go into meetings. You can. That's not it. I just don't.

I'm just like Myers. I just I don't do it. I don't fight in meetings, and I'm not I'm not gonna dare it for controversy. But if I see somebody being led down the wrong path, I'll snag his ass because that's my responsibility. Thanks.

Next question. Lady there. That's right. Hi. My name is Dawn, and I'm an alcoholic.

Hi, Dawn. You've touched on this this morning already, but in my experience, it was a real priority. I was taken through the work very rapidly in order to get a connection with the God of my understanding. And, and that's what saved my life. Make no mistake about that.

But what do you say to the people that say to these newcomers? Easy does it. You're a long time getting sick, and you're gonna be a long time getting well. Or ninety meetings, and then we'll start your step work, or we'll start your steps in January. What do you say to these people, please?

You tell them, Golly. I mean, but again, this is this is why it's tough for me to answer because that I'm blessed that I haven't been around that. But I do hear, you know, from the people that I come in contact with, when they've come from different groups and stuff like that, that that's what they were told for so long. And and they're weeping as they hear the true message that's coming out of this deal. And for, you know, 15 treatment centers and they never heard it or so many different AA meetings and they never heard this truth.

And so, again, it's, of and correct me if I'm wrong here, but as opposed, you know, if if I do hear someone sharing that kind of stuff, and it is, you know, someone in the fellowship, then then I you know, my experience is different. And I need to stick with my book and my experience. And just like Chris said, my book says this. And they they the women that I come in contact with who've been misinformed over the years and ask them, well, how well did that work for you? You know, and usually they're able to see that it, duh, it didn't work.

And so, then what we're gonna do is we're gonna go to the solution and and show them the truth. And again, my responsibility as a sponsor is to sponsor correctly so that the next woman gets the correct message. And these people, that that our little our little town there is a there's a bunch of people that that live in halfway houses and come and stay for a time in the Kerrville area. And, and I'll get to sponsor some of these women and then they'll go back home to Dallas or to wherever they're from. And and it's it's a pretty cool thing to know that the correct message is being sent home.

And they're gonna go back home to those meetings where they were told, easy does it, 90 meetings, 90 days, blah, blah, blah. And they're going to be able to be armed with the facts and to be able to stand up and start to change that Here's the translation. When somebody comes up, I hear that often. We still, you know, easy does it. You didn't get this sick overnight.

You're not gonna get well overnight. What that translates into, I don't have time to mess with you now. I mean, that's the truth. Book says we seek the solution with the desperation of a drowning man. It's on page 28.

We seek the solution with the desperation of a drowning man. And that's that's what I had to do, rapidly. I mean, the arrogance of us to think that this is going to take forever. I don't have forever to get well. I was talking to somebody in break.

If my mind had not cleared up, folks, I mean, I came back in after a suicide attempt and there was about 16,000 voices in my head telling me what a worthless piece of shit I was. And if somebody had told me that this was gonna take forever to recover from, I would have just gone and finished the job. I I I was just, you know, just how how it's very harmful. Again, it's taken stuff out of context. The book says we work the steps rapidly.

Our history books explain that to us. And and and yet, we still have people that want because they were able to do that. They didn't even start the steps for the 1st year they were sober. And so they believe that they should be maybe their disease hadn't progressed as far. But again, I go back to my premise.

I have to assume that the person sitting across from me is dying of alcoholism. And at that point, I have a responsibility, if they're willing, to get them through this work as quick as possible. So we can have another man in the trench helping us. And that's the beauty of this program. So bless you.

No. Because I'm gonna share some of that. King of chavs in the front row there. It's really not true. Welcome to London, guys.