Sponsorship workshop in Austin, TX

I'm sorry, I'll start over. Let me let me that's probably the best question that anybody could ask given this bunch of people here. It may not be the best question at other places, but in this room with as many people as I know here all

let's, let's, let's, let's, most of you guys are seekers or you wouldn't be here. It's a gorgeous Saturday afternoon or morning and there's plenty of things to be doing. Most of you guys are interested in recovery and what you're turning back into this stream of life or you wouldn't be here, you see. And so with that in mind and knowing that we're all here on that common foot, we'll answer that question. I think that I think the perfect meeting

is a meeting that is literature based with some strong members of Alcoholics Anonymous or drug addicts in that meeting that keep that topic on track. Listen guys, if you've known me for 5 minutes, you know I think that the open discussion meeting is the worst thing that ever happened to Alcoholics Anonymous. I hate that format. Not because I didn't like to share it, and I did so for seven years. I can piss and moan with the best of you, but I'm telling you right now guys, I've seen thousands, not a few

thousands of grunts coming into this deal that didn't last anytime at all because they were brutalized by the format. The format allows problems to happen.

You see, it's not that the discussion meeting is so vile, it's what happens in the meeting because nobody's strong enough to say, oh stop, stop. I know where you're going with that brother. I tell you what, why don't you come see me after the meeting and let's talk about that. But in here, see, we've got this topic that we've already started and it's important that we stay with the topic. Allowing a discussion meeting to free flow is a nightmare. And everybody says, well, it's God's meeting, He'll take it where he wants to stop that crap and don't you dare buy it. I won't. That's crap.

It is horseshit. I'm telling you. Some of these meetings have gotten so toxic and so sick.

Believe me when I tell you this, but matter of fact, the other morning, God, I was having a chat and he told me. He said, you know, on those mornings I'm going fishing. When you guys do that, I'm telling you, I'm not saying God's not in the meeting, but I think God would weep sometimes when we see the things that are disguised as recovery that aren't recovery. You understand, I don't I'm not trying to piss you off guys. I know some of you guys go to a discussion meeting every week and that's your meeting and it's all warm and fuzzy and you love it. Well, I'm telling you what, statistically and based on the number of meetings in the

Fort Worth area, we have 107 groups and we have 15130 discussion meetings that you can go to any week. We have 25 literature based meetings that you can go to any week. Tell me why we're sliding off in the deal like that. Guys, I'm telling you we got groups where they won't let you bring big books in. We got groups that are charging money to hear fist it. Absolutely. I've named you two groups in Dallas Fort Worth right now that if you get out of your car and you have a big book under your arm and you walk toward the door, they'll say, what's that?

It's a big book. Come on, Dodge. I mean, you, you, you think I'm just trying to be up here bashing a A and fashion a A groups. Absolutely not a A. Save my bacon.

I have three daughters and one of them is headed this direction. She's never had a drink in her life yet, but buddy, she's headed this direction.

She is. She Crystal, she is. She's mean. She's me with breast. She's me.

You've got to understand what I'm saying. I just, I want to make sure that when she gets here that there is some there. There is some strength in the meeting. The problem is not the discussion

problem is that there's no strong members that are willing to grow some backbone and some cojones and say, excuse me, we heard about this yesterday. Listen, guys, let's clarify something. There is everyone of us has problems, right? Every. There's not anybody in here that doesn't come in here with a boatload of problems, growing problems, live in problems, problems of the past, you name it. We all need a place to share That sharing is good, it's therapeutic. We love doing it.

There's a perfect Ave. for that. It's called a sponsor. Get a good one. Call him, tell him about your crappy day, tell him about that girl that won't return your calls. Tell him all of it.

But buddy, I'm telling you when that meeting starts and we got a bunch of buckaroos there and we got a bunch of brand new guys that are coming to our meeting, we need to be assured my focus 100% of the time, not 90% of the time, 100% of the time is on the guy in the room. I don't know the brand new guy that just slipped into the room and he's sitting back there in the back and he's looking at the floor and he won't look me in the eye. He's just looking at the floor and he's scared spitless. He's as goofy as he's ever been in his whole life and he's clinging, he's holding, he's praying that there is a message there that

save his bacon. He's praying

and the chairperson starts a topic and it's a good one. The chairperson gave it some thought. We got a great topic out of the big book and we're going to talk about it. And it goes for 5 minutes and he shares and passes it off to the guy to his left and he shares. We're still on track. The little guy in the back is not looking at the floor anymore. He's looking up. He's kind of looking around going, I understand what that guy just said, I'm cool. And then the lady sitting next to him goes. Well, I know the topic is this, but I really need to share this.

And there goes,

there it goes. Everyone of you have seen this and we sit there and we let her do it. Now let me ask you this question. Not to be abrasive,

why would I do that? Not to be abrasive, but where is it that whole right to share that shit in the meeting got more important than that brand new guy that's in the back that needs a solution to his problem. Amen. He'll die if he doesn't get the solution. She'll just have a shitty day.

He's love

Facebook.

Do you answer your questions? Literature based meeting To answer your question, I was getting back to it, honest, I was getting back. But if there is a soapbox in me, there it is. If you couldn't tell, I just there's just so much pain and suffering in the meeting because of the format. A good solid literature based meeting. We have three meetings a week. Two of them are book studies. One of them is a step study on a Saturday night conducted by a sober member of our Group, A strong member of our group, and there are no other meetings.

I have a list here of 31 places that our group, our group goes to every week, 31 meetings that are conducted other than our meetings every other night. We need them free. I don't need them sitting in a meeting. I don't need the guys I sponsor sitting in an A a meeting. I need them off their lazy butts at a 12 step plate carrying a message of recovery to the drunk that's out there that still needs it. We're going to go get them. You see what I'm saying? And where are those good meetings?

We're there's one here in Austin. Now where are they in San Antonio? See that rough looking guy right there in San Antonio? There will be, there's some talking right now and they're out there. You just gotta call around and find some of those guys like this.

Yeah, there's some good stuff. After the meeting, I'll tell you where they are.

13 years ago, 13 years ago when they when I left my middle of the road group and I got plugged in with these guys, I said let me, let me see if I understand this right. You're telling me that what we're going to have is or nothing but big book studies, basically that's all we're doing. Yeah,

super. Now remember turning around and he said, you think you're going to be bored, right? And I said, Cliff, I'm going to be bored spitless in six months, I'll be suicidal. That's thirteen years ago, guys. I'm telling you right now, some of the members were here in that group and I have never, ever walked out of that group that I wasn't on cloud 9 and so excited to be a member of this fellowship. So jazzed up and jacked up about this idea of being of service to somebody else with a clear cut message that had no basis in opinion.

It had only a basis in my experience and what the big Book told me to do. Cool shit and an idiot can do it. I did it. And believe me, there are a lot of you guys in here brighter than I am. Honest, honest. So one more question then we'll get on with the deal. When you're in one of those meetings you describe and you're, you know that they're newcomers,

would you interrupt the person and say, excuse me in a heartbeat, In a heartbeat. And how how would you do it? Excuse me? God, listen, we got a guy over here. I know you the direction you were headed. It sounded like some cool stuff, but it's so off topic to what we're talking about right now. Let's get back on track here so that we can help this brand new guy that's in here like this and, and get let me tell you something. I'll Fast forward for you because I know where your head's going already on the deal. If they get mad and upset, screw them. I'm telling you, I'm so tired

walking on egg shells around drunks and addicts that get goofy in their own meetings insisting that out of selfishness and self centeredness they have a right to say anything they want to. That is ludicrous. It is horseshit. It's killing drunks. We got to stop it. We got to stop it. Thank you

for those that don't hate me

because we've all done it, guys. There's not one of us in there, including myself, that hadn't gone into a meeting, puked all over the table, let everybody clean it up, walked out feeling better. And we think that's what it's about.

But we've gotten off the page folks, the original deal, our primary purpose. Remember one primary purpose and that's to help the newcomer understand my experience strengthen hope is not about my goddamn day. It's not my experience. Strength and hope is how I got sober and how I stay sober as a result of work in the steps go with it. We never heard the term experience, strength and hope until the 2nd edition came out. Somebody that nobody even knows put it in the forwards of the to the second edition and it came from the Grapevine. It was not even literature that we

I haven't been intended to be that way until the 2nd edition. Somebody from the Grapevine wrote it, an editorial that they wrote. We're going to share our experience, strength and hope. And there it was,

experience, strength and hope around the steps around how to I've got this, this, this path to a guaranteed spiritual experience that will answer all your problems. That's a quote out of the book. You with me. But we're not going to get to talk about that today because we're going to talk about Sally Sue's divorce one more time.

Just freaked me out, takes my breath away. On the page 19, at the very bottom of that page or about 2/3 way down, they talk about sharing your experience and knowledge and your experience and knowledge and your experience and knowledge came from your experience in working the work. That's what we're supposed to be. Sure we got to. We got to get this cat qualified. David here. We know he's a drunk. We know he's going to do the deal. Hey, David, welcome buddy, welcome. I'm glad you're here. So I'm going to grab David's hand. I'm going leading back off in a little backroom and we're going to sit in and we're going to talk. I'm going to find out a little bit about David and I'm going to find out because we're at Step 2. Step came to believe that a power grade

self could restore us to sanity. Sanity is the key here. Now I gotta find out where David is around God. So I'm gonna ask him. David, there's all the guys that sponsor here. They're gonna go. I know what it is. Give me the Reader's Digest condensed version of God and your experience with God. Guys, I don't need to know about your Sunday school experience. I don't need to know about when you were 10 years old and they drug you to vacation Bible School. I don't need I need to know in this length of time. It's real simple. I like God or I think God sucks. It's it'll be one of the two. God is either stuck sideways

or you're groovy with God or spiritual stuff or whatever the deal is, but you can relate it really fast. What we're trying to find out is, is if you, if you've got a real problem around the whole idea of God and this spiritual stuff, you're going to have trouble recovering because this Step 2 is the solution. We already identified problem one. We gave you a rip roaring case of alcoholism and you're clear, crystal clear that it's chronic in nature and will kill you. So with that motivation, we're going to proceed through the rest of this stuff and we're going to ask those questions. How are you

dot Chapter 4 Way Agnostics lays out in unbelievable details all the bad things that could come up in this conversation. And, and a lot of times I'll just have a guy read it while I'm listening to it and we'll ask questions as we go through the deal. It takes just a few moments to do that. It's what it's 7-8 pages long, 13 pages, It's nothing. We're going to read through this stuff and then we're going to find out where he is. If he's OK with God, then we can proceed. It's that simple. It's not a big long drawn out deal and people spending weeks and weeks and weeks on Step 2

stuff. And I'm I'm not sure that I understand if your motivation is death in step one, then understanding you either you're hit with God or you're not hit with God. And if you're not hit with God, come on, are you willing to look at it? And that's what the book ask us. Are you willing to go ahead and embrace this idea and even even look at the prospect you have something sacred you had that. I want to look, I want to say something

and so that's it. And so once we know what we're working with, then we can proceed. So we got this guy qualified for the sake of this because I want to get into step three stuff with this selfishness and self-centered that kicks

or collective butts. David said he's OK bad experiences in church before, but he's OK. At least he thinks there's something out there and we're willing to begin our work through here. Am I oversimplifying it to some maybe, but you can beat it to death. I mean, it's a it's a black or white kind of a situation. You see real quick. My too many of us get into this deal because we had trouble with God. We assume everybody has trouble with God. The book says in chapter the agnostics right there on the second paragraph down it starts talking about,

he said about half of our fellowship had problem with God. That means the other half didn't. So why are we? Why are we dragging our feet on this very simple proposition?

The second set proposition is real simple. dot either is or if he didn't, we got some conversation to go through. If he, if he is, why? Why belabor this conversation? We listen to people in meetings. I'm working on Step 2. I'm working on Step 2. It's one freaking question.

Yes or no? Makes sense.

Yeah. Yeah, I'm here.

Let's say we got him qualified and he's ready to go through the whole deal and we're going to do the thing. We go to the always

take these cats right off of it to the ABC's and we read them importantly, without belaboring this stuff I want to read. Be sure you read the last deal. They're asking us three specific questions before we proceed on to this thing. It does us no good to proceed from this point. If he's still crawfishing an ambivalent about anything that we've done already clear on that. If he's still not certain that what of what is truth is around his drinking or his drug addiction, stop right there. Please don't do this stuff. It's no sense wasting time doing this in the hope that he'll get it later on, because most of the time they don't get it later on.

Most of the time they just get sicker and sicker and sicker until they just go away. You see, they need to be convinced that they're ready to do the rest of the stuff. So we get to the ABC's and we read them AB and then C and look at this, that God could and would if he were sought for You guys that are having trouble with God, He didn't say that God couldn't would if he were found.

God couldn't would if he were sought. It's in the seeking that God's miracle happens. It's not

my deal in church was always back. How come they get it and I don't? I could never get it, but I never understood the importance of seeking it. You see, and that's what they're talking about in the deal. It's pretty. It's it'll free a bunch of these little buck crews up that are having trouble with this God deal like this. Come on, seek it. I'll help you. I'll be right there with you and we'll see what we can do. How many are seeking God in here this morning?

Ever hand in here? Better be up. Don't understand the newcomer coming in? He thinks we've already got it all figured out.

We know what he looks like. We know what he does. We know what he

Bush in 19 years, guys, and I still don't know. I'm clear now that I was 19 years ago. It's a process, this spiritual thing. It's a it's growth book says we gain access and believe in a power greater than ourselves. That's what we're after. We're after this event of the spiritual experience. Go cool,

one more thing and I'll sit down and Chris can finish this stuff up before lunch. That

did. Was it? Was I the only one in the bunch that wondered why Bill put 6162 and 63 before the third step prayer? Is there any of you? When you read this stuff, didn't you just look at it and go, wait a minute, this is about booze? I don't understand what this selfish stuff has got to do with it like that. Funny thing though, is you read through this stuff and you begin looking at it like this.

It starts off at the bottom and I'm just going to skip a little bit, but we'll read a little piece of this just to kind of whet our appetite for the final on this thing. The first requirement is that we'd be convinced that any life went on self will could hardly be a success

on that basis. We are almost always in collision with someone or somebody even though our motives are good. Now with that thought in mind, how many of you guys came into a convinced that booze was your problem and if it was removed everything would be fine?

Or drug addiction, whatever the deal is. But there it is

from the kindest journalist, coolest guy in the world who's just fucked me up. And once I get the booze out of the way, I'm going to be groovy. I'm going to be the the man I always wanted to be.

Wasn't I always trying to be the director? Wasn't I always trying to be to manhandle this stuff? Inventory is going to help us see some of this stuff. But what's important right now, look at

see if this doesn't describe you. If only people would do as he wished. I'm at the top of 61. The show would be great. Everybody, including himself, would be pleased. Life would be wonderful

and I'm trying to make these arrangements. Actor may sometimes be quite virtuous. He may be kind, considerate, patient, generous, that's me, even modest and self sacrificing. On the other hand, he may be mean, egotistical, selfish and dishonest. But as with most humans, he is most likely to have varied traits. Does this not sound like guys? If you can't, men, if you can't put this in perspective in your life, ask yourself, does this not relate to the last time you courted a woman?

Could you do this? Can I be kind? Can I be generous? Can I be everything I'm supposed to be? Or can I be a mean, demanding son of a bitch

depending on what I want? You see, she's worked a 14 hour work day. She's dead dog on her feet, She's tired, but I want to play.

And so heavy side

slam the refrigerator door. You see what I'm saying? All this subtle stuff until she finally says OK, OK, you see, we can be whatever, whatever it takes. But the bottom line, I want what I want what I want,

and as long as it follows that path, we're OK. You step out of line, we're going to have a problem. It still works, guys. Don't look worried

my wifes in here. You can ask her.

I still have some pride. I wasn't going to get into it at all.

Everybody's going well. How does he know that I know?

Is he not really trying to be a self secret even when trying to be kind? Absolutely. Flip over the greatest line, I think in the big book from my perspective, and the most telling about our condition and where we are is at the top of page 62. Selfishness, self centeredness that we think is the root of our troubles. Damn it, why didn't Bill Ryden booze, booze and those other drug stuff, Why wasn't that the root of our problems? You see, he didn't write it like that.

Why? Because they knew they knew. You take booze out of my equation and buddy on wheels off in no time at all. I'm so far wrapped around the axle Based on based on self

that it just gets ugly. And how many times have you seen this stuff? How many times have you watched these little guys walk out free and clear from the booth? I mean, they're, they're working the work, they're doing the thing. They set a third step prayer and they're like little bitty little giants out there. They're doing great. But we don't address the spirit, the the, the, the selfishness and self centeredness that that kicks their little butts. And day by day you watch them get sicker and sicker and the calls start like this. You won't believe what she's doing.

Or you know what? I'm one week back at work and they're treating me like I'm some kind of leper up here at work. Well, maybe that's because they had to pay $17,000 to send you to treatment. They don't trust you.

I've been so far weak. What are they talking about? You know what I'm saying?

Where does this attitude come from? Selfishness and self centeredness is the root of our problem. So I'm going to Fast forward this. Chris will pick up the loose ends on the deal. That's why I keep him around. He doesn't dress up.

Look in the prayer, on the prayer. There's just one piece I want to pick out of the thing before I sit down.

There's a line in this thing that I absolutely never understood and now I do on a level that makes me want to weep every time I read it.

Relieve me of the bondage of self that I may better do that as well. Let me tell you something, guys, it didn't boost. It's kicking your rear today. It's the bondage of self that's kicking your rear today. My need to be right at all costs is what's kicking myself. You see, that's why I stay in collision course. You ever wonder why it is that you're sitting in meeting? You ever hear a fifth step of a guy that does a whole bunch of meetings out there? He's at he's a big meeting maker kind of guy and you're listening to his fifth step and you're reading through this thing and you go

on his inventory and you go,

damn, where's this guy? Trinity Trinity, Trinity Alpha. What all these are a a guys. Yeah. You ever noticed this stuff that half the wreckage is in a a because of the resentment of the people that won't do what I want them to do in a a best advice I give that guy, stop going to those meetings. Get get out of there or or do something novel like work the work and understand what your truth is around your own selfishness and self centeredness. Because once we recognize it,

guys, look, my wreckage is not about booze. My head tells me that and my family tells me that. There's the common delusion that all of us operate on when we get in here. It's a common thread through every one of us, including our family. Everyone of them thinks the same thing. Once I stop drinking, I'll be OK. He will be the man I want him to be. He will be kind of the kids he will be. No, I won't.

What I found out the hard way is that what's going to happen is as soon as I stop drinking, as soon as I stop medicating myself,

life is raw and I'm dealing with this stuff. I'm still a selfish prick and I still demand that you do things the way I want you to do them. And when you don't, I react like a little kid. I stomp my feet, I shake my fist, I raise my voice. I get all demonstrative. And my wife is standing there looking at me just baffled, like going, where is this coming from? What is this? See? And you think, well, maybe it's just me. And then you do inventory with about 500 guys and all of a sudden you realize, yes, what? It's a

thread that runs through everyone of us will go deep down inside at the beginning of every day, at the beginning of every first breath in the morning. I am the center of my universe, and the quicker you understand that, the better we'll all be. And I

'm demanding and I say all kinds of unkind things and I just, I, I arrange the lighting to suit me. I arrange everything because I'm back to being the director again. And what I need to do desperately, guys, is take the freaking director hat off

and understand on page 87, there's a great little line there that says just a little reminder that we're no longer running the show. We're no longer running the show. We gave that to God in the third step and God meant it and he said he would take it. Now the choice is God told me one time, he said, Myers, you know what I'm understanding about this thing in in chapter 5, it says we stood at the turning point. Remember that line and chapter 5, how it works. I don't think that they're talking about we stood at the turning point just one time. I think that we stand at the turning point every morning when we get up every morning as we draw that first breath,

we stand at the turning point and the decision that we made. Will I walk with God and service God's kids or will I be my own maniacal nut case? Myers It's just, but I make the decision daily.

The stuff Myers was talking about is what we call untreated alcoholism. Don't agree with that.

That's, that's that's why this

if you haven't drank today, you've had a successful day. Stuff sticks in my crawl because it's not my experience. I, I have been dry in this fellowship wanting to commit suicide or homicide.

And that's not, and that's not sobriety. That's that's, that's hell on earth. And that's exactly what we stood at the turning point. Am I going to stop trying to run this myself or I'm going to let somebody help me? And that's what the third step is with this new guy that you're talking to, buddy. Are you ready to let somebody else spear this,

this damn bus? Because if you're not, we're getting any further to go. Make sense? Left on my own. What we're going to do is we're going to work 12 steps. We're going to have this spiritual experience and in the stillness and the quietness, when we get quiet and meditate in 10 and 11, you with us, we're going to start getting guidance from God. How many of y'all in this room right now do I know who called me out of the clear blue sky just all of a sudden in a moment of quietness, call Chris.

We got to talk and got to visit and all of a sudden that we get some answers to some stuff that's going on with both of us.

How many times have I picked up the phone and called? Somebody says, buddy, I don't have a clue why I'm calling you, but you come up in meditation twice

and I and I'm gonna I'm gonna check on this and is it have a bust into tears. I cannot believe you called. Why is that? When I shut up, when I get quiet, when I turn the TV off, when I get still, I can because I've worked the steps and got all the gunk cleaned out between me and God. I can hear God's voice.

The members of Alcoholics Anonymous don't keep me connected. God keeps me connected. That may be as controversial thing as I've ever said from the podium, but that's my experience. I've been blessed by you guys. There ain't no question about that. But this two, this two and three business is, is, is is very simple. You got a problem with God, Let's talk about it. If you don't, let's move on because you're going to get to know this power as a result of working these 12 steps. Are you willing to do that? Yes. Let's go

and we do a third step prayer. You'll follow. I want to read something to you about what we were talking about a minute ago. Turn 2 if you got page 98,

there's a great page in here called Working With Others. Any of you little 12 step buckeries in here, y'all need to be reading this, this, these pages, They're they're the bomb.

Page 98, first paragraph down. You all heard me talk about this before. Some of you. It is not a matter of giving that's in question. Excuse me,

but when and how to give? It's not about giving. We all know we're supposed to give. The question is when and how to give.

That often makes the difference between failure and success.

The minute we put our work on a service plane, the alcoholic commences to rely upon our assistance rather than upon God. He clamors for this of that, claiming he cannot master alcohol or dope until his material needs are cared for. Nonsense. Some of us have taken very Hard Knocks to learn this truth. Job or no job, wife or no wife, we simply do not stop drinking so long as we face dependence upon other people ahead of our dependence on God.

You with us.

I think if everybody could get on that page and understand what we're talking about, our fellowship would be a lot healthier. We got to get out of this, This, this, this mindset that my job is to help you when and how My job is to help you dot dot dot get connected to God

with us. Every person in here has the power to do that. Those of us that have found God, we can do that. This idea, this arrogance that tells me that I can help you with your life because I'm 19 years sober and you're just fairly sober is ludicrous.

Are there times that I sponsor somebody who has similar experience and I'm able to help them with other areas of their life? Absolutely. I know today if I've got a guy that I'm working with and he's got a problem with something, I trust me, I know a man or a woman in this fellowship that has gone through the same thing. And I will completely step aside and say I want you to call this guy over here and talk to him about that because I've never been to Vietnam,

because I've never been molested,

because I've never gone through bankruptcy, because I've never. I mean, it is perfectly OK if you don't hear anything else I say, hear this. It is perfectly OK in this fellowship to look somebody in the face and say, I don't know

you, you with us. Thank God for that. That is true humility to bluff your way through something trying to help somebody. That's that's one more time. This idea in our A A meetings that we've gotten open discussion held where we're going to come in here, we're going to fix everybody's problem. Can you imagine how ludicrous that is?

You're going to come into a room with collectively probably 6000 marriages involved.

I'm having trouble in my relationship. Let's talk about relationships in early sobriety. Oh, what a great topic. Yeah. Guaranteed to kill somebody you'll follow. It's nuts. Absolutely. A sponsor can sort it out and get you connected to somebody that can help you walk straight through this. Don't let me. Don't let me get off. The fellowship has has greatly enhanced my life.

Go follow. But my job is not to fellowship. My job is to program the one single job that we're supposed to have. Don't cool with that, aren't you? The book tells us right here. Stop trying to fix the world. You are not a therapist.

Sitting in a meeting in my own Home group the other night, sitting in my my Chuck, some of you guys have been there, Bill said in my meeting not two weeks ago. Listen to somebody in the meeting say, I don't know about those antidepressants. I'm just telling you, if you're taking antidepressants, you're not sober and I think you should stop taking them.

Listen, y'all know how I feel about antidepressants? I'm not a fan. Not a fan, but I'm not a doctor either. You'll follow, but he has every right to share. Whatever you want to share in a meeting, you can share. Absolute rubbish, absolute rub. He made one small mistake. There was time for one more share after his

because I'm telling you, opinion will can kill you. Opinion can kill you, and you just got to be kept. We hear, we hear all the time. We hear it with well around the doctor's stuff. We hear it around the lawyer stuff, around the psychiatrist stuff. We hear everybody sharing their opinions and we think we're perfectly right to do that in an AAB. I'm telling you, my book just said right there, we're not.

The only thing that we know is alcoholism and how to recover from it. That's what we need to be talking about. We just completely discount all the great professionals that are out there that are waiting to help us make sense. Send them to a therapist, buddy. We're not. We don't want to get into that. See me after the meeting and I'll hook you up with a good counselor that can help you with that sitting there. Talk about I'm confused about whether or not to leave my husband or not

and you want our advice.

What you got, Chuck?

Wow, what Chris is talking about

having the tits and the balls to do what I'm saying.

I've been tires cut off my car, I've had shit going through my leash here, I have notes put on my windshield and you know what? I made a real bad mistake a month ago. I stopped going because of

that's bullshit. He's not asking us to do so Chuck all of us in here real quick because we may not get a chance to cover it later real quick. Now let's stay with that. There's a fine line here. It's all selfish and self centeredness. You're sitting in the meeting and somebody just goes off on left field and you make a decision. Do I stop this cat or do I let it go on you with it? I'll let it go on That's selfish and self-centered, isn't it? You know what the right thing to do is, but you're not going to do it because you don't want to be pissed anybody off. But I'm saying there's

also a way to do it. And I've been exactly where Chuck's at. I've been, you know, ostracized. But you, Chris, you're too rough. You're too. And I, what I had to do, I had to look at what I was doing, not what I was doing, but how I was doing it. You'll follow. What's the tone of your voice you come across? We're lecturing in here, guys. We're talking to a group of people. But, you know, one-on-one, you don't lecture anybody. You don't point a finger and tell them what to do. You're sharing your experience. If you watch the tone of your voice in a meeting, just exactly what?

How do you stop somebody? Real world, buddy. We're kind of off topic. We'll get with that afterwards, but right now we need to get back on topic. Now. Nobody can get offended with that. Oh, excuse me? OK,

shut the fuck up.

You see a little difference in that

I've done,

I have done the latter. I have done the latter. I think you guys have known me for years. Notice that I had a guy the other day. Well, Christian boy, you sure have mellow. I have, and I'm a lot more effective. I'm a lot more effective.

Anybody any good? Once they get pissed off, they're not going to hear anything you got to say anyway. Love and tolerance is our code, and there's more than one way to tell somebody they're sisters. Ugly

expression? What question? Isn't that the chairperson's responsibility to keep the flow? But if the chairperson,

like Chuck said, won't, won't get the cojones to stop it, then we have a responsibility as a responsible member to take care of the business. Most of this stuff can be alleviated, guys, if you'll go to your group consciousness and change the group's format. Because most of the problems we have out there and it's not about personalities, it's about the format that we're sitting in meetings. If they allow people to bring their problems, people are going to bring their problems, and you really can't get

Crossfire with them. They're just doing what the format ask them to do. Makes sense.

I can get I can go to 15 meetings right now at lunch in Austin, TX where they asked you. Well, this is your meeting who's got the problem? Well, if you're asking them that you can't stop them, you'll follow go to the group conscience change it to a literature based meeting where you're back in the book and that that stuff won't happen. It's just very seldom will happen. I've been at the outpost for years guys, and I think maybe once or twice if that's happened, usually it's just

straight out of the book. So cool. Get a timer. Get a timer.

Yeah. When someone comes into the meeting and they're still drunk or they're still high and they just go off about all this stuff, and no matter what you're saying to them, they're just like. But I just like. Excuse me, brother. You're obviously under the influence. We would like to help you, but we can't help you if you're talking. We'll get with you right after the meeting. And if you'd like to sit here quiet, you're welcome. And if you're not, you'll have to go

because because the guy across here has had a bad day too, and we need this meeting. This is our meeting. Not my meeting, our meeting.

So we have a right to do that. I called the cops 911 on more than one occasion when somebody got Unruh. It's just that simple in my opinion. You got to kick them out because they're drunk. Absolutely not. Guys. I went to lots of meetings drunk.

Not real pleasant experience, I got to say,

but I but I've done it. Are we going to we got eight. We want to go into this four step. Let me let me share some real quick because the food's on its way and it'll almost be here like this. There was a great somebody mentioned something just a minute ago at meeting format stuff. I had an occasion this last week and I just take

5 minutes to relate this story. This guy named Otto M in in Oregon that I shared a podium with a couple weeks ago in Mexico and he been sober just under 50 years. And one of the things that I asked this guy, because you know, I'm 4 hours out to this place and four hours back and the whole time we're there, we're like buddies and you know, like, and so we talked a lot and I asked him, I said, tell me what it was like when a, a first started

in the, in the infant days like this. What were the meetings like? You didn't hear

OK. And so it's not that I'm hungry. Yesterday

he said this is the way. This is the way we do it at our Home group. And it's patterned off what we did when I sobered up in Southern California in in whenever it was. And I and and we have a chairman that's picked and the chairman knows the work. He's had the spiritual experience and he gets up with a coat and tie on and he stands in front of the meeting and he shares for 15 minutes out of the book. He's the topic is his decision to make,