Sponsorship workshop in Austin, TX

There he is. And my name is Myers and I am so delighted to be here and, and I was I was thinking a minute ago. I wanna thank some of you. Some of you guys drove a long way. Veronica came all the way from New Zealand just a few years ago.

Not really. She's here from New Zealand and and there was a bunch of guys come down from Dallas and this kind of deal and it was just, it's always cool when people make an effort. It's always funny because there's always these guys that you see that you know in your meeting that won't go right down the block to help you do a pit a 12 step deal, but it's always cool to see guys that'll drive 300 miles to sit on a deal and do this kind of stuff. That's a that's always you guys kind of become my heroes in it. In in this part of this deal, from now until we're done with this thing this afternoon, what we're doing is is this this process of of a, meet and greet.

We're gonna find a guy. We're gonna qualify this guy, and then we're gonna, carry him through the work briskly, and we're gonna take a few side roads but most of those things will be minimal because we're trying to stay focused on, on what we're doing. Listen. I often often have these guys say, well, I don't understand how anybody can take anybody through the work quickly and be thorough. Well, great.

I mean, let me tell you what my experience has been. My experience has been in the 1st 7 years that I was sober, I sponsored 2 or 3 men and and we I never got any of those 3 men through the work. We were gonna take our time going through this stuff. The book that Chris was talking about earlier, this stuff this morning on page 24 where they talk about we won't remember with sufficient force the pain and suffering of even a week or a month ago. Guess what, guys?

You ever wonder why it is that you you get these little buckwheres that'll come out of treatment and let's say you meet them while you're in treatment. Let's say you do one of these these these you got a 12 step commitment at a treatment place. So you go down there like this and you see this guy that's weak into treatment. He's still hurting like a big dog. He's all pliable.

He's willing to do whatever you want him to do. He'd he'd do anything. Cat turd, I'll eat it. He didn't I'll do anything. You know the type.

Pliable comes to mind. And then you then you watch this guy go through 20 more days of treatment. Uh-huh. Now regardless of what he's getting in treatment, I'm not saying anything about that. I'm just saying give him 20 days for the ego and the arrogance to retangle itself, and what do we got?

You you walk in expecting to see pliable, David and what you get is arrogant little piss ant David leaning back over there against the back of the room like this looking at you. Stop. And you just know here it is. Here it is. The arrogance has already rekindled itself.

He already has an opinion and a game plan of how he's gonna recover. Not only that, he's going he's he's he's in his mind, he's been reintroduced to what we call lovingly the AA Trinity, the job that grew in the car. And those 3 those 3 things have done a great deal. Those three things have basically taken everything about program and moved it over to one side because it you know it's much more important. I must have the job so the income stream picks up again.

Once I get the income stream, I can get the car back. Once I get the car back, I get the girl back. Once I get the girl back, I I can get the house back. I get and it just goes on and on and on. And the whole time we're doing this, I'm struggling with my right hand trying to pull all these things up And I'm holding the program at at a distance.

You see? And there's where the problem comes in. The book tells us in working with others time and time again and then in the family afterwards, they reiterate it again and go back there again and then they do it again in a vision for you in exactly the same masterful detail. They're gonna talk to us about handling that first, program first, and then letting God be in the middle of the decisions around the job of the girl in the car. You see?

How many of us settle for a little piece of shit car when we coulda had a bitchin' car if we'd have just waited? If we'd just waited. The same thing with a woman. How many of you guys got the AA just like that hooked up with the beast of a woman and that's who you got? God was nowhere in the picture.

I know some of you guys going, I've met my wife the first week we were here and she's a she may be lovely. I'm sure she is. But but Shit. Did you ever say something and you wish so desperately you could take it back? That's one of mine.

It's so important that we get these guys through the work. In the in the the last 13 years that I've been with these big book for Primary Purpose in Dallas, I've sponsored several 100 men that I've carried through the work. Several 100 men. Please. I'm not saying that from a a peer a point of arrogance or pride.

I'm saying it from a point to make my my point about this deal about sponsorship. Nowhere in there in those hundreds of men did I take more than 45 days to work them through the work. There was no need to do that. No need at all. You see?

And I can't tell. And I had these conversations with people and they were gonna go, you're not thorough enough. You're not doing listen. There's not one of those men, not one of those men that if approached later on, if they said, hey. I'd like to do another 4 step with you, and we could do an extended third call inventory, and we could do all this other stuff.

We'll talk about this when we get to that part in this in this step stuff like this. But if somebody wants to go through and do some more work around certain areas, I'm I'm there. I'm their man. Guys, our fellowship is full of so many people that are that are what makes us do the steps in the first place? Desperation and pain.

That's it. And we gotta do it while they're desperate and full of pain. You give any of us in here we're the most resilient people in the world. Give any of us in here 5 months to recuperate, to convalesce, to to get our life back in order. And I'm telling you right now, 35 or 45 days down the road, most of you guys know exactly what I'm talking about.

You just standing around there kinda looking and going like, fuck. You know? That thing with the drugs and the booze and stuff, that was just a bad place in my life. It was just a rough road that I was on. But I'm on a different path now.

We're going to church on Sunday, and I got the little eight thing starting up with the kids. And I just it's gonna be okay. And it is, right up to the point that it's not. And then it gets so scary and so ugly so fast that it's just you understand what the deal is. I mean, we're it isn't it funny how much emotional pain we're willing to shoulder and I'll call it synonymous in the guise of of of being cured on this thing, so to speak.

We go to these meetings and and life is just whipping us up. We're not doing any step work. We're not doing anything, but we're not drinking, you know. And it's just the emotional pain is just choking us to death and I keep that's why they talk about the difference between relief and freedom. It's huge.

It's huge. It's just amazing that you walk into meetings someplace. Guys, I walked into I walked into groups where where where people were so unhappy. I bet you've been in those groups too. I bet you've seen them where you walk in and everybody's just frowning.

Everybody's just either looking at the floor or they're just nobody's saying anything, nobody's greeting, nobody's meeting, nobody's doing anything and you just know. I mean, just nobody is happy. You see? Mhmm. One of the manifestations of a spiritual experience in your life is that you're happy.

When you walk into a meeting and everybody's laughing and having a great time and and and you know that you Hey, there's some hope here. This is good stuff. And yet we see these meetings that they're just in in in Iceland they call them dark tunnel meetings and I love that stuff because it describes so effectively exactly what the deal is. The meetings that got so sick that nobody could recover. We had so many people concentrating on things that were not important that we let the new guy go.

So for the sake of this example, let's pretend, to begin this thing, David's my guy again and because he didn't leave and I'm I love him because he didn't leave. I didn't he'll leave after next thing. I promise you. Okay. He's the brand new snot slinging little buckaroo that just came in the room.

Okay? He's the he's the guy that's brand new in the deal and he walks in the door. And so what we're gonna do real quick is we're gonna qualify this guy. Not qualify, not question a man's sobriety, not qualify? Yeah.

Qualified. Why is this such a bad word? Why is this gets everybody so you can't qualify me? Well, If I say I'm an alcoholic, I'm an alcoholic. Yeah.

Super. Yeah. This could get let me explain something real quick. We'll we'll take this well, this is a perfect place to take one small side road. Take the side road over to tradition 3.

The only requirement for A membership is the desire to stop drinking. The long form is much better than that. Most of you have read that thing. They adopted 1950, the 3rd edition. The only requirement for a membership is a desire to stop drinking.

Super. Everybody, if you have a desire to stop drinking, is is welcome to be here, even David. I don't know David from Adam. He could be I don't know him. He's welcome.

Now at some point, David's gonna ask me to sponsor him. He has no choice in the matter right now. I'm his guy. David comes up to me after a meeting and he says, hey. I need you would you sponsor me?

Sure, David. Let's talk. Let's get acquainted. And here's where we fix it. Here's where we find out what the deal is.

Here's where the qualifying begins on this thing. In the meeting, we have no right to question him or call him out or ask him anything like this. He's just here. That's okay. But once I sponsor him, the responsibility is mine, mine to find out who he is and what he is.

Mine. And if he's not a not a drunk, I'm gonna pat David on the butt and I'm gonna say, David, I love you to death, but why are you here with us? And I'm not being exclusive. I'm not being nasty. I'm not being I'm not being anything.

I'm just I just wanna know. David, we spent some time talking about this, buddy, and you've admitted to yourself as we read through this literature that you're not an alcoholic. Why are you here? Well, I I just like you guys and I just wanna, you know they told me in treatment if I needed a place to share that AA was a great place to share. I said, David, you could do that, buddy, but you could do the same thing in church.

Get you an accountability thing going on at church and doing the same. You You don't need to be here and stuff. And then David goes, you mean I don't have to come to any more of these meetings? Not if you don't want to, buddy, but I'm just, you know but see, what I'm doing is we're when David comes in, we were sitting at that coffee shop and I had a big book on my lap right there and then we're talking about this stuff and I took him to page 44 and and reread the paragraph. And we'll do that real quick.

And most of you guys already know where it is and what it is, but we'll read it, especially for some guys who may hear a tape on down the road and not know it. Page 44, top paragraph. They're gonna ask you this little question. In this preceding chapters, you've learned something about alcoholism. We hope we have made clear the distinction between the alcoholic and the nonalcoholic.

If, when you honestly want to, you find you cannot quit entirely or when drinking, you have little control over the amount you take, you are probably alcoholic. If that be the case, you may be suffering from an illness which only a spiritual experience will conquer. It didn't say only 90 meetings in 90 days either. Only a spiritual experience will conquer. Yes.

You better be clear on that stuff. They're not playing around with it. This is one of Bill Wilson's classic declarative statements that he made that meant exactly what it said and the book's full of them, hundreds of them, statement after statement after statement. And we we read through them at a 100 miles an hour, and then we forget them or discount them. And then we we do put our own little interpretation in there again and you see what I'm saying?

So they were asking this question about whether or not we've lost the power of choice and control and that was it. Chris is gonna go into that stuff in a great deal of detail in just a minute and it'll clear clarify some of this stuff up. But let's assume for the sake of this example that we qualify David and there is no question in our in our mind what the deal is. Let me make sure that everybody understands. I love David already because he came and he's and he and he's submitting to the process and we're trying to see find out what the deal is.

But but where the problem lies is not with David right now. The problem lies with David when he starts to sponsor somebody. You see? That's the reason why identity and and and qualification was so incredibly important. And the new the old guys, I'm talking early AA, that they did it they did it perfectly.

They gathered these guys up and then they were not afraid to ask them these questions. They weren't trying to be all things to all people. They weren't trying to be everything. They were just trying to do what they set out to do, which was help the drunk who suffered from alcohol. That was it.

And so, that singleness of purpose is huge. But now let's say what happens is let's say that David is not an alcoholic and we're sitting at the Denny's, but he still wants to stay an alcohol al Alcoholics Anonymous. Can he stay? Sure. I have no right to tell him to leave.

I wouldn't do it. I'm just telling him, David, based on what I read here and based on the answers that you gave me, you're not an alcoholic. Super. I'll see you Tuesday night and he'll be there. So let's just say he shows up.

Now one of the fall outcomes, one of the stuff that scares me is is 3 weeks down the road, a month down the road, a year down the road, whatever it is, that he decides to get on the firing line. He's hanging around and eventually somebody's gonna walk up after a meeting because of some crappy Sheridan in in a discussion deal. Somebody's gonna walk over to him. Charlie's gonna walk over to him and say, David, shit, man. I really like what you had to say.

Can you sponsor me? David's gonna go, yeah. Sure. You bet. You bet.

Now we have a guy that's not an alcoholic getting ready to sponsor an absolute fruitcake alcoholic like Charlie Parker. We know this. Okay? Do you see where I'm going with this thing? Do you see where the fallout comes?

Do you see where it gets nasty? It's in the 2nd and third and fourth generation that things get really nasty. That's the reason why, and I'll only take this one little piece of side road on here, that's the reason why that having a a drug addict sitting in an AA meeting sponsoring an alcoholic gets so nasty. It get it gets it just unravels. What I would really like to see look look, guys.

We have, on a Tuesday night, a 180 people show up at a at a at a big book study that we do in Dallas. Thursday night will be the same kind of deal. And the the room is full of drug addicts and alcoholics. It's an open meeting. All of our meetings are open because we wanna include we everybody that comes in to have a place to come and study.

But Buddy, membership in Alcoholics Anonymous, and membership in Primary Purpose Group Dallas, Texas is for alcoholics. The rest of you guys, what we're gonna do is we're gonna love on you. We're gonna bust our butts to make sure that you get the same common solution that the rest of us got, and then we're going to encourage you to get into the fellowship, into the trenches with the fellowship of what kicked your butt. If methamphetamines kick your butt, guess what? Your future lies with a bunch of methamphetamine addicts right in front of you.

Cocaine? Pick it. Pick it. Now let me tell you something. From where I'm standing today watching the wreckage caused by drunks and addicts trying to do the same thing and trying to to to to sponsor each other, I used to say it was the same guys.

I used to say, well an addiction is an addiction.' And it is, but there is a world of difference between drug addicts and alcoholics. And you know where it all comes out in living color? In an inventory. And if you doubt it, go. If you doubt it, you guys that are drunks, go listen to an addict's inventory.

It's ugly and it's really, really, really different. And then you can sit there in your arrogance because of this grave that you dug, this this nasty place you put yourself into, and now you're faced with a guy who has just unloaded his burden on you and you're going, and you buried the body where? You touched what part of his anatomy? See what I'm saying, guys? It it's different.

It's different. Unless I can You put what up your ass? It all comes out, doesn't it? It all comes out. That that made me feel uncomfortable.

Sorry. I didn't think I could get shook, but I guess I can't. Alright. So they're different. In, 5 years ago, we had this big deal going on in our group.

We had all these people there. And our our our deal was that there were butts in seats. We were a success, and we had butts in seats. We had this huge meeting. We've got sitting on the floors.

They're falling out the doors. We had they were everywhere. Success is great. It's perfect. I get this call from Cliff 19.

He says, hey. We got a problem. I need to see you quick. I said, I'll see you at the meeting tomorrow night. He said, no.

No. No. I need to see you now. Yes, sir. He never asked me to do that.

I went over there like this and he says, let me ask you a question, Myers. How many drug addicts do you sponsor? I said, I don't know. I'd have to count them up. He said, I'll wait.

And so I counted them up. He said, Myers, are you a drug addict? I did a lot of drugs, Clifford. He said, that's not what I asked. Are you a drug addict?

No, sir. I'm not. Okay. What the hell are you doing sponsoring these men? Cliff, you know how it is.

They ask. I say yes. Oh, so coming from arrogance, you just decided that you knew what was best for them. Right? Yeah.

I guess so. Well, of the men that you sponsored this year, how many of them went out? I'll have to check, Cliff. I don't I'll wait. And And he does.

It took me about 10 minutes to figure it out. And I said, near as I can tell, 7. Of the 7 that went out, how many of them were drug addicts? 6. We have a real problem Myers because you're not the only one doing this.

We've got a group full of men and women here sponsoring drug addicts that are alcoholics, and it's not it's not good. And we need to get back to the basic part of this thing that we said. I'll never I trust you guys, for you drug addicts that are feeling uncomfortable right now, I will never ever exclude a drug addict from our meeting. That's the reason why by our group our informed group conscience that we keep all those meetings open because we want you to feel comfortable to be there to study our common solution which will get you where you need to be. But once you've begun having that experience as a result of doing that work, you really, really, really need to be with a bunch of addicts that you can help.

I am so tired of hearing people tell me how much they hate NA because there's no strong people there and how much they hate VA because there's no strong people there. And I'm going, what the fuck are you doing here hiding out in AA like some? Quit it. You're strong. Why don't you go fix it?

And if everybody would do that, CA would be as strong as AA and NA would quit being damn joke around recovery. Quit it. Recover, do this stuff, and then get out there and help those guys that are dying. You think we got a bunch of drunks dying? Oh, my God.

Come take a look in Dallas and watch what the crack's doing to Dallas. It's it's killing us. Killing us. Yeah. And there's not enough sponsors to to to deal with them.

Sir, why can't an alcoholic be an addict sponsor? You you could if you're an addict too. Why can't an alcoholic be an addict sponsor? Because I don't understand what it's like to do crack. I've never done any crack in my whole life.

Difference. What a difference. Tons. Tons of difference. Sweet Pete, I'm telling you, it's like night and day between the two difference.

The depth of of guilt and remorse in an addict far outweighs what most alcoholics will ever go through. And the addict in its guys to try to get through the work will sell the whole thing and the drunk will never catch it. I never saw it coming. The drunks would I mean, the addicts would tell me something. I'll get to you in 2 seconds.

The drunk the the addict would tell me something and I'd go, oh, my God. That must have been terrible. That must have been and he'd tell me all this stuff, and it was all a veil of lies. It was all made up shit that they were telling me. But because I'm not an addict and I didn't understand the depth of that deception, what I did was I flipped them over to a bunch of buckaroos that I know that are addicts, and guess what?

Every one of those men came back or called me and said thank you. Thank you for doing what you did. You saved my life. I tried to pull that same shit I used to pull with you, and you know what happened? They called me on it, and I had no choice except to get honest.

This is all about honesty. See what I'm saying? It's frustrating. I know exactly where you're coming from, and I've been there, but hang on just a second. Yes, ma'am.

What about what if you're both an addict and an alcoholic? Then you are the luckiest guy in the room. You're a double winner and you get 2 fellowships that you can hang. Encourage those little buckaroos to get all gathered up and start their own meeting and then help them every way you can. Share let them share your space, let them do whatever you can do like this, help them any way you can, but believe me, even in the smallest towns there's enough drug addicts that they could they could do a deal like that.

Sir, I'm sorry. I didn't mean anything for you. No. That's fine. My my question was quite similar to hers about being an addict and an alcoholic.

Like, I I I'm a drunk, but I've also been addicted to Xanax. Does that mean I should not deal with meth or coke people, but I'm okay to deal with Xanax people? Or In keeping with our singleness of purpose, that's exactly what that means. Because unless you understand on a gut level, guys, I could stand here. I've been working with drunks and addicts for 19 years now almost, and I can tell you that I think I understand it.

But buddy, I'm telling you, I simply do not. And I and I that's the reason why this thing of singleness of purpose, Chris will get into that stuff in just a minute, is is huge. I don't I don't wanna make anybody feel briny about this stuff, But this is one of those classic things that we were talking about in the beginning of the talk about about just taking one step back from where you are in your present day program and looking at it and seeing, am I being effective to the people that I can be effective will with or am I trying to be all things to all people? And it's real easy. It's so easy to be sucked into that guise of thinking that I could be everything to every man and it is it is it's pretty bloody.

Pretty bloody. Was there another question here or something? It wasn't but I just wanted to back up what you were saying and it's it's that I'm not an alcoholic. I'm I'm an addict and I would have no idea what to do with an alcoholic. I have no idea what I'd like to be 1.

And so to to try to relate or get them to to to be able to to help them out, be able to. So I just wanted to say, yeah, that's a good point. Troy, you and then we'll go on real quick. Just got one quick question. Do you think there's a difference as far as the physical allergy and the mental obsession between an alcoholic and a drug addict?

That's That's a great question. I'm gonna let Chris answer it when he gets up here because he's gonna cover that particular part of it rather than rather than take the time to do it like that. So let's let's let's look at this situation. We got we got Dave, here who's come in and let's say for this we're we're changing the example. Dave is now a real bonafide alcoholic.

We're gonna scoop him up and we're gonna get him through the work. There is no need for him to convalesce and get his crap together unless David is detoxing in my meeting. If he's detoxing, we're gonna make sure he gets through his detox. But past that, we're ready to rock and roll. I wanna read you guys something.

Everybody goes, oh, no. They gotta they gotta sit and be there for a while. How about 90 meetings and then we'll start to work? How about this thing called the German system in Europe where they take a 180 days before a 160 days before they do any work with anybody? You can just come in and sit and vegetate.

Now how many of you guys who know anything about alcoholism or drug addiction would think that's a great idea? And yet this is of all of the things that the Europeans could have picked up from us, what they picked up was the lame discussion meeting that goes on nonstop and and and this deal of taking your time to get through the work. And it's no wonder it's a bloody battlefield over there. It's no wonder that the guys that are trying to get back on track getting their heads handed to them. I'll read you some letter letters later on.

You won't believe. These guys are little warriors over there trying to get stuff back on track and it's they're just getting killed. Listen to this deal. This came out of 8 comes of 8. Some of you get a kick on this thing if you if you are of the of the position of let's wait a while before we start this stuff.

It was soon evident that a scheme of personal sponsorship would have to be devised for the new people. Now each prospect were But in the face of many hundreds of pleas for help, the supply of elders could not possibly match the demand. Brand new AAs, sober only a month or even a week, had to sponsor alcoholics still drying up in the hospitals. This is good stuff, buddy. This is good stuff.

This thing I'm buying in and selling this thing, I bought into that deal forever. I gotta be here 15 years before I can sponsor anybody. I could do this. Well, the true the reality always comes back to one thing. Always.

I don't really know what I'm doing and my anxiety and my fear keep me away from from reaching and grasping the responsibility that I know instinctively that I have to the new guy. But I don't wanna hurt him, So get off your lazy butt and do the work. Have the experience and you won't hurt him. I guarantee it. I guarantee it.

I've never seen it. I'm almost done. Go ahead. Okay. Thank you very much.

Thank you very much. Now that I've piss some of oil, you can fix it. I haven't shared the podium with Myers a gazillion times here and in Europe and and the most controversial stuff we talk about is this singleness of purpose stuff still to this day. That and recovery versus recovery, which just freaks me out why people get twisted over that. You know?

If you wanna stay sick the rest of your life, go ahead and call it. But the singleness of purpose to it, it's just it's the the we got all of that. Early days of Alcoholics Anonymous, they had a lot of problems with this. And this was around 1953, Narcotics Anonymous started, and we started seeing little dope fiends get their own fellowship and those little dope fiends started getting sober. 1982, cocaine anonymous came along.

A few years ago, crystal meth anonymous came along. And there are hundreds of close to fellowships out there. I wish it's my one prayer, honest to God, every night is that we have more pill addicts anonymous meetings in this country because we're seeing the tip of the tidal wave heading our way. We haven't even seen it yet. You'll you'll follow the catch since the advent of the of the Internet in the early nineties.

What we're seeing now is is is horrible predictions around pill that that you will never understand until you've been there. Let me ask you guys a question. How many one eyed guys we got in this room? 1. Usually, there's one other in here.

It's basically then there's not one of you people in here that can talk to me intelligently about the pain It's a pain in the butt. I'll I'll tell you right now. It's it's the difference between looking at life like this and looking at life like this, you know. And this is circle, oval. That's that's the difference.

But nobody can talk to me about that because you've never had experience with that. Makes sense? I can that's one of the reasons that I'm so rigid about men sponsored men and women sponsored women in a lot of regards because women will never understand men and men will never understand women. I don't care how much you read. You're free to agree or disagree.

I'm saying, I like to think I'm pretty intelligent. All you gotta do is ask Patty, and she'll tell you he ain't got a fucking clue. As much as I try, you know, it just I I I experience is the only thing that we have to offer, guys. And the and the and the gift of us surviving our addictions to come out the other side, and it's like, I've got this ability. I'm I'm lucky.

I I I got addicted to drugs too. I mean and so I can work with drug addicts, and I sponsor some drug addicts, and I sponsor some alcoholic. But I I I get real specific. I don't I don't sponsor pill addicts because I really truly have I don't have any experience with pills. I took a lot of pills, but I never had problems with pills.

The detox around the different substances is horrendously different. Right. As as most of y'all are nodding your head. Y'all know exactly what I'm talking about. You get an alcoholic trying to work with a pill addict.

Alcoholic detoxed in 3 days and suffered some mental confusion for maybe months. A pill addict will detox for years. If you've taken Xanax, hydrocodone opiates, or Benzodiazepines longer than, a year, you you will be detoxing a year off those medications, and you will have moments when you think you are going absolutely insane. And an alcoholic who's never been there will not have a fucking clue how to how to talk to this guy. He said, buddy, I don't know what to tell you.

Maybe you need a doctor. You know what he needs to do? He's go exercise a little bit and he's zivid. I mean, some of us can learn about this, but until you've been there, you will not be able to empathize. And I have watched hundreds of drug addicts sit in our meetings, coming apart at the scenes, and be ignored by the other alcoholics in the room, not because of indifference, but simply because the alcoholics did not understand what they were going through.

They couldn't sit still. They're deep. Their skin's crawling. They don't I don't know what to tell you. Never been there.

But you think that you can sponsor that person. It's just arrogant. It's just arrogant. Sponsor the cats that you've had experienced, similar experience with. That's I don't know why that's so controversial, but it but it is.

A drug is a drug is a drug. It's treatment center party line bullshit. It's crap. It's not the truth. I said it again.

The detox stuff is different. The physiological stuff is different. The physical damage is different. The terminology's different. One's legal.

One's not legal. You're down with this? Go go go as an alcoholic on a 12 step call to a to a somebody that's that's doing a bunch of crack. You will you will not you will not we laugh about it. But if you have not had any experience with that, you will be in over your head about the time you open your car door.

Isn't that right? Absolutely. Isn't that right? So so why in this grandiose thing, you know? It's like me trying to work with somebody with an eating disorder.

I've never had an eating disorder. I don't know. It's a life threatening illness. Somebody with sex addiction. I've never had a No.

I but I but but for somebody that's suffering from true sex addiction, it is a extremely life threatening illness. They must have some help by somebody that understands, and I don't understand. I what I wanna do is the same thing that most of us in here did. I wanna laugh about it. It's not laughing to them.

They're dying. You you follow? But you could hook them up with another sex addict and immediately get some results. It's just arrogance to think that I could help a sex addict. You know how I can help them?

I can give them the number of an s l a a d. And I have I I keep those with me. I don't know if I remember to put them into the but I have a list of of websites that you can go to for every 12 step group that's out there. Crystal Methanonymous, Sex Addicts Anonymous, Gamblers Anonymous, all these, and I keep them. And if I got a guy in a meeting that's my real problem, we had one at our at the outpost 6 months ago.

Here you go, buddy. Here's the here's the website. Chuck? I'm a pure alcoholic. And I'm approaching somebody who's an alcoholic and a drug addict.

What I've always done is I've always scared them that somebody is a drug addict as well. I won't deal with it because I have no experience. Yeah. Sponsored him as an alcoholic and have him have a sponsor in n a c a a whatever. Yeah.

Is Is that correct? Yeah. I would. Thank you. I would.

I go to most meetings. I don't treat my cocaine addiction in a NA meeting. I treat my cocaine addiction in a in a cocaine anonymous meeting. That's that's why I go to both meetings. Tell it.

It's not problematic. We may have to start some meetings. We may have to if I had cancer that could only be treated in Minneapolis, I would go to Minneapolis. Convenient? Absolutely not.

But but you gotta do what you gotta do. This is life threatening, folks. Y'all y'all it's just it's life threatening. First thing we do with this cat is exactly what we're talking about. You gotta qualify this cat first.

The first question out of your mouth, though, is find out exactly what the book says. Are you ready to stop for good and for all? We gotta make sure we're all clear on that. Are you done? It doesn't say, are you done today?

Are you do you wanna stop one day at a time? It doesn't say that. It says, are you done? You're with me? Page 90 is where it's in the book.

Ask him if he's ready to quit, if he's finished for good. That's what it asks. Well, you know, I don't know. I you know, some days I am, some days I'm not. Thank you.

Bye bye. You with me? Yes, sir. You all get getting a pissing contest with this guy. Somebody some some lady at at, where I used to live, asked me, to, come talk to her son.

And I went over, and son was a was a brutal drug addict, alcoholic. And he's sitting, laying on the couch, and I walked in and says, hey, buddy. Are you about done with this? You you you you wanna quit? Well, I don't know.

Alright. See you later. Walked out. The lady's chasing me. Is that all you're gonna do?

Yes. Yes. Because because if I talk them into getting sober, they're not gonna stay sober anyway. And they're gonna end up resenting me and our fellowship because we've jammed them against this. If you're not done, you're not done.

Have a nice life. What do you and I think there was a question over there. But what do you do with somebody who's really sure that they wanna get sober, and then 3 weeks or 5 weeks later, isn't so sure anymore. And then it it goes in a cycle. Same deal.

Same deal. Uh-huh. Same deal. So you start treating him again? What's the Here's the here's here's the deal.

If I qualify him you with me? Are you done? He says yes. And then we talk about this disease and he can he can I qualify him and he can answer these questions affirmatively? In other words, we can diagnose him with alcoholism at that particular point, their chances of relapse are pretty slim because this is a death sentence here, folks.

And once once you're given the death sentence, you will finish the work. You will, you know, drive 30 miles into a meeting that you that you're that's appropriate. If you know you're gonna die. If you don't know you're gonna die that's why I couldn't stay sober for 7 years just like so many of you you ex patients that I that I've got to work with. That's why you had such a difficult time getting sober because nobody ever qualified you to begin with.

Makes sense? The book says, I'm not gonna remember the consequences of a week or a month ago. This power of choice. So you choosing to stay sober now, but the question is not do you wanna stay sober now, you wanna give this up for good and for all. I'm not guys, I'm telling you, the big book doesn't say one day at a time anywhere.

It says we have a daily reprieve based on the maintenance of our spiritual condition. 2 entirely different things. A daily reprieve means every day. I don't know how we can get any more clear about it. I know that subsequent AA literature has talked about this.

Well, if you can't if if that's if that's too upsetting for you to think about not doing this forever, just do it one day at a time. That, my friends, is a cop out because that's not what my book is asking me. My book is saying, are you done? I don't know. I'm I'm in an empty garage apartment.

I've I've just missed the bed for the 19 thousandth time and I'm sitting here and say, Bob, this is real. I'm gonna hold this back because I'm gonna really wanna come back and do this again, you know. This is ridiculous. If you're done, you get done. If you're not, I I don't waste my time with the cap.

Get him a coffee, be friends with him, but that's it. What you got? What, what do you do with somebody who has relapsed so many times that when you ask them are they done, they say, honestly, I think I'm done. I really wanna be done, but I've said that before. By by now, who knows?

There's a guy in his book that says, I I don't know. It's no that's no use. I'm a go on it. What do you do for somebody? You're asking them what they've done, but they honestly, by now, they don't even know anymore.